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Mac.World
Aug 1, 2012, 05:56 PM
According to the website Android police, miles of code has been written for Android in order to allow multiple user accounts on one mobile device. The boys at Google started about a year ago, but say a lot more needs to be done.
Hopefully, we will see it in Key Lime Pie next year. Android will be the first to implement a multi-account device, thanks to devices like the S3 that has enough RAM and memory to handle more than one account. The GNex2 will most likely be the test bed for such a feature, which tells me it will have at a minimum 2gb RAM, 32gb memory (with an expansion of at least 64 more) and the quad-core cpu and GPU from the Korean only version of the S3. And my guess is it will be the exact same size as the S3 at 4.8 inches. I see Samsung utilizing shared parts to cut down prices.



batting1000
Aug 1, 2012, 05:59 PM
I could see it being useful on a Nexus 7 or another tablet, but phones are usually for one person.

RMXO
Aug 1, 2012, 06:31 PM
I could see it being useful on a Nexus 7 or another tablet, but phones are usually for one person.

True but it allows you to switch phones with a family members, friends or partner.

Sensamic
Aug 1, 2012, 06:40 PM
Very much needed feature for tablets.

And iOS will include this feature in... 2015?

alex2792
Aug 1, 2012, 07:22 PM
It would be nice to have a work and personal account on my phone.

nuckinfutz
Aug 1, 2012, 07:41 PM
Very much needed feature for tablets.

And iOS will include this feature in... 2015?

Never

It's a stupid feature.

APlotdevice
Aug 1, 2012, 07:48 PM
Never

It's a stupid feature.

Maybe for an iPhone or iPod touch, but not only do I share my iPad with family but I have seen other iPad owners do the same on several occasions. Having multiple accounts would help tremendously here. Especially when children are using the iPad. Parents could have an account specifically set up with parental restrictions, instead of having to go into settings and turning them on and off every time.

nuckinfutz
Aug 1, 2012, 07:55 PM
I think low cost tablets ($200-$300) will obviate the need for the household tablet.

Mac.World
Aug 1, 2012, 09:36 PM
Never

It's a stupid feature.

I'm sure if Apple had been able to do it first, you'd be saying how awesome the feature is, that only Apple could have come up with this, blah blah blah :rolleyes:

of course, we all know Apple will steal the code off this, throw a patent on it, then proclaim it was invented by them and sue every Android manufacturer that had been using it.

nuckinfutz
Aug 1, 2012, 09:48 PM
I'm sure if Apple had been able to do it first, you'd be saying how awesome the feature is, that only Apple could have come up with this, blah blah blah :rolleyes:



Consumers barely use multiple accounts on their computer which have supported the feature for decades. On a tablet it makes even less sense.

I'm sure people will trot this out as some amazing feature that iOS doesn't have and they will miss the point entirely.

APlotdevice
Aug 1, 2012, 10:06 PM
I think low cost tablets ($200-$300) will obviate the need for the household tablet.

Even at $200-300 not every household can afford a tablet for every member. Especially since tablets become noticeably obsolete much sooner than computers. Multiple accounts would be far more economical.

Dolorian
Aug 1, 2012, 10:28 PM
Glad to hear, I've always said that the iPad (or any tablet for that matter) needs multi user functionality.

kdarling
Aug 1, 2012, 10:42 PM
This is probably the number one item on the wishlist of people I know with an iPad.

They would love to have separate logins/modes for husband, wife, and even each kid.

Even if they have two tablets, one for the parents and one for the kids, it's still handy in case you want to lend your "adult" iPad to a kid for a while or vice versa.

Mac.World
Aug 1, 2012, 10:51 PM
Consumers barely use multiple accounts on their computer which have supported the feature for decades. On a tablet it makes even less sense.

consumers barely use multiple accounts? I don't know if you are saying this because you are a single person household or you are the sole user of your devices, but those of us with families know that this is a great idea!

And of course, there are jobs, like say nurses, that could now use a single tablet for multiple people between shifts. Just like a computer that requires multiple log-ons. Or say in warehouses, law firms, etc...

You worship Apple, so I'll forgive your inability to see a bigger picture that involves Google driving innovative features.

jeffe
Aug 1, 2012, 11:16 PM
Consumers barely use multiple accounts on their computer which have supported the feature for decades. On a tablet it makes even less sense.

I'm sure people will trot this out as some amazing feature that iOS doesn't have and they will miss the point entirely.

I'd be shocked if IOS ends up never having support for multiuser accounts. Many people do not like allowing other people to use there devices knowing that access to email, text messages, and other private information is readily available on the device.

Apple knew this with computers and is why they allow for a guest account in OSX.

AustinIllini
Aug 1, 2012, 11:18 PM
Consumers barely use multiple accounts on their computer which have supported the feature for decades. On a tablet it makes even less sense.

I'm sure people will trot this out as some amazing feature that iOS doesn't have and they will miss the point entirely.

You don't get out much, do you?

Rennir
Aug 1, 2012, 11:21 PM
One word: innovation :cool:

ChazUK
Aug 2, 2012, 12:58 AM
I'm really looking forward to this happening personally. To have all of my mail, contacts, apps and medis synced to my login and the wife with hers will make tablet use in a multi-user household great.

Count me in for looking forward to it.

Dolorian
Aug 2, 2012, 01:04 AM
Many people do not like allowing other people to use there devices knowing that access to email, text messages, and other private information is readily available on the device.

Tell me about it, I just don't feel comfortable lending my iPhone to anyone (even a family member) even if it is to make a simple phone call. They have access to everything, your photos, email, twitter, messages, browsing history, etc. I get really distressed whenever someone is using my iPhone, even if they just want to play with it a bit to see how it is and if they like it.

Multi user is a must.

l0gan5
Aug 2, 2012, 02:13 AM
Never

It's a stupid feature.

Actually, it would be very useful for my kids. Especially if I could lock down certain features or apps e.g. making calls, youtube, web browser etc.

Jhowland
Aug 2, 2012, 02:23 AM
Consumers barely use multiple accounts on their computer which have supported the feature for decades. On a tablet it makes even less sense.

I'm sure people will trot this out as some amazing feature that iOS doesn't have and they will miss the point entirely.

I strongly disagree. I'm only 14 years old and I have a 11 year old brother, I have my own iPad but he shares one with my parents and him and them would LOVE to have user accounts on the iPad.

As for the computers comment, we each have an account on both of our macs and even when I get my own I will have one account for home/personal use and one for school

KnightWRX
Aug 2, 2012, 07:55 AM
Let's get this thread back on track people. Just ignore the people trying to bash Android at all costs.

Hopefully, we will see it in Key Lime Pie next year. Android will be the first to implement a multi-account device, thanks to devices like the S3 that has enough RAM and memory to handle more than one account.

I wonder about this. We had multi-user systems with much less RAM than the first iPhone had, much less storage too. What are they planning that RAM and storage would be a limiting factor in a multi-user driven system ?

I can understand storage if these things are also used as MP3 players/video playback devices without streaming, as having 2 music/video collections on 1 device will fill up available storage quick. Android's support for SD cards should help with this though.

As for RAM, heck, even back in the days we had multi-user systems that ran multiple concurrent connections on less RAM than the first iPhone had. Considering the nature of these devices, it's not like users are going to be using them concurrently either, it's going to be on a turn based basis. I wonder what's Google's plan.

I don't think hardware is an issue though. Reading other articles on the subject, it just seems that the frameworks and support is slowly being added, probably not to break any existing code that relies on hard coded paths :

http://www.neowin.net/news/android-is-getting-ready-for-multiple-users
One of the major commits to the source code was a commit titled "Plumbing in PackageManager and installd for multi-user support." done in April 2011. This commit meant that all application was no longer saved in /data/data, but instead in /data/user/0. This change is already visible on devices with recent Android versions. To retain compatibility /data/data now points to /data/user/0 (using a symlink).

This is the problem Microsoft faced when going to Windows NT. Developers had for years been used to writing directly to system level locations/registry keys rather than the user's home profile and own registry.

callan37
Aug 2, 2012, 08:29 AM
I'm not sure that allowing multiple user accounts would be good for the business model. Tablets are aimed at individual users.

KnightWRX
Aug 2, 2012, 08:53 AM
I'm not sure that allowing multiple user accounts would be good for the business model. Tablets are aimed at individual users.

The OS and underlying software supporting a multi-user model doesn't change what you can aim a device at. OS X laptops work fine for the single home user yet Mac OS X is a fully multi-user system.

Options, nothing bad about them.

kdarling
Aug 2, 2012, 08:54 AM
I'm not sure that allowing multiple user accounts would be good for the business model. Tablets are aimed at individual users.

True, it will be the tablet makers who care more about their users than their profits, who will implement it.

Wouldn't affect sales in some cases, anyway. For example, I have a half dozen tablets of various sizes and OSes around the house, and everyone in the family swaps between them depending on where they are and/or what they're doing.

So in my case, at least, I'd still own multiple tablets and yet could still use the ability to instantly switch users on any of them at any time.

KnightWRX
Aug 2, 2012, 09:00 AM
True, it will be the tablet makers who care more about their users than their profits, who will implement it.

Wouldn't affect sales in some cases, anyway. For example, I have a half dozen tablets of various sizes and OSes around the house, and everyone in the family swaps between them depending on where they are and/or what they're doing.

So in my case, at least, I'd still own multiple tablets and yet could still use the ability to instantly switch users on any of them at any time.

I think something that would be interesting would be a centralized "Home Cloud" box, which you plug into your WiFi AP and it holds all your users profiles/music/videos/pictures. Then, when you pick up any tablets around the house, it displays a list in picture form of all the users that exist on the box, just click your picture, enter your password in any form you like (typed, spoken, facial recognition, biometrics, whatever) and the tablet just loads your profile and you can use it.

That way, no need to even recognize which "tablet" is yours. Just pick up any available one. Configurations of the centralized box could be done straight from the tablets too.

Now that would be convenient!

nuckinfutz
Aug 2, 2012, 09:58 AM
People don't need multi user on a tablet. All they need is the ability to password protect sensitive information.

You guys need to understand that one of the biggest issues is forgotten passwords. Adding multi user to a tablet just amplifies this issue.

BaldiMac
Aug 2, 2012, 10:08 AM
People don't need multi user on a tablet. All they need is the ability to password protect sensitive information.

You guys need to understand that one of the biggest issues is forgotten passwords. Adding multi user to a tablet just amplifies this issue.

I "need"/would-benefit-greatly-from multi user on a tablet. I'm people. It would reduce the number of passwords I need to remember. Since I wouldn't be having to log in and log out of various apps and sites all the time.

b166er
Aug 2, 2012, 11:04 AM
This is a feature I honestly expected on the first iPad. I would love to see this happen with the iPad ASAP. Or even the nexus 7 as I am really liking that as well.

Sensamic
Aug 2, 2012, 11:11 AM
People don't need multi user on a tablet. All they need is the ability to password protect sensitive information.

You guys need to understand that one of the biggest issues is forgotten passwords. Adding multi user to a tablet just amplifies this issue.

Don't worry.

We will be enjoying this feature when it comes. I want my tablet to work more like a computer than a toy.

Thank you Google.

Dontazemebro
Aug 2, 2012, 11:16 AM
I take it that some of you might enjoy this feature for other obvious reasons like I don't know ..... hiding your porn stash from the wifey lol.

kdarling
Aug 2, 2012, 11:20 AM
People don't need multi user on a tablet. All they need is the ability to password protect sensitive information.

Much more than that. You really must not have kids :)

People would also like to change what's displayed on their homescreen(s), payment options, and browser/YouTube/etc permissions.

There are already launchers for Android that include at least the multi-user (or kid mode) homescreen ability.

You guys need to understand that one of the biggest issues is forgotten passwords. Adding multi user to a tablet just amplifies this issue.

It could have multiple options:

Passwords. Face recognition. Fingerprints. Hand-finger geometry (ever been to Disneyworld?). Unlock swipe patterns.

KnightWRX
Aug 2, 2012, 11:31 AM
People don't need multi user on a tablet. All they need is the ability to password protect sensitive information.

Ok, which is exactly what multi-user systems offer. So really, you've just posted 2 contrary statements here.

Not to mention : preferences, icon placements, account auto-logins in apps, notifications, e-mails, videos, pictures, music. Do you really want to share all those with your brother ? Your mom ? Put your music collection on random and get a few songs your dad listens to ? Of course not.

User profiles make sense when there are different users for the same device.

You guys need to understand that one of the biggest issues is forgotten passwords. Adding multi user to a tablet just amplifies this issue.

Didn't you just propose :

the ability to password protect sensitive information.

You've just contradicted yourself 3 times ? Look, if this doesn't interest you, why waste everyone's time derailing the thread ? Just move on, the fact that the system is multi-user enabled doesn't force you to use it as such. OS X works fine as a single user system even though it's fully multi-user enabled.

ChazUK
Aug 2, 2012, 11:57 AM
I remember when no one needed copy and paste, multitasking, MMS, wallpapers, front facing cameras...... Look at iOS as it is today. :D

Every single feature added to an OS, no matter how minor will fill it's intended purpose with someone, somewhere.

Personally, I do want multiple users on my tablets. As KnightWRX pointed out, I have no desire to listen to Hannah Montana on my iPad or Justin Bieber and I doubt my daughter wants to listen to The Prodigy or The Chemical Brothers when she is using it. I also have no desire to have my wife's personal calendar or contacts and bookmarks on my tablet either. That setup is useless to me.

If Google can deliver with multiple users, my family will have a far better time sharing the hardware we have indoors now.

JohnGrey
Aug 2, 2012, 12:00 PM
I freely admit that I could be wrong, but I don't necessarily see the need for a user account system on a tablet. Accounts are for the segregation of data or the restriction of features and content. For the latter, there are no admin/superuser elements to settings or apps, and content restriction is better handled with a single password. Yes, one can make the argument that that's exactly what accounts do, but why have to deal with two passwords instead of one, especially in the case of parents supervising their children? Does the forthcoming Android feature properly evaluate scope of permissions so that the parent's account has admin privileges over other accounts? I doubt that parents would be happy with being as blind to their childrens' accounts as vice versa.

For the former, Apple need only allow the registration of multiple iCloud accounts to any eligible device, and the need for local user accounts for data segregation is obviated.

nuckinfutz
Aug 2, 2012, 12:01 PM
Ok, which is exactly what multi-user systems offer. So really, you've just posted 2 contrary statements here.

Not to mention : preferences, icon placements, account auto-logins in apps, notifications, e-mails, videos, pictures, music. Do you really want to share all those with your brother ? Your mom ? Put your music collection on random and get a few songs your dad listens to ? Of course not.

User profiles make sense when there are different users for the same device.



Didn't you just propose :



You've just contradicted yourself 3 times ? Look, if this doesn't interest you, why waste everyone's time derailing the thread ? Just move on, the fact that the system is multi-user enabled doesn't force you to use it as such. OS X works fine as a single user system even though it's fully multi-user enabled.

No you've built a nice strawman argument.

Password protecting my email is a far cry from having a totally separate user account login.

The reason why it doesn't make sense is because a tablet is $399 and if the iPad mini rumors are true we're looking at sub $300 pricing. At this point for the majority of "Apple" customers it's a better solution to purchase another iPad.

I understand the concept of user accounts but I don't think it makes sense in a tablet market that now starts at $199 for a very capable tablet (Nexus 7)

Mac.World
Aug 2, 2012, 12:12 PM
No you've built a nice strawman argument.

Password protecting my email is a far cry from having a totally separate user account login.

The reason why it doesn't make sense is because a tablet is $399 and if the iPad mini rumors are true we're looking at sub $300 pricing. At this point for the majority of "Apple" customers it's a better solution to purchase another iPad.

I understand the concept of user accounts but I don't think it makes sense in a tablet market that now starts at $199 for a very capable tablet (Nexus 7)

You have passwords for logging into your computer, logging into this very website, pins for debit cards and if you work, you likely have multiple passwords for logins.
But yet, adding an additional biometric or swype gesture for multiple user accounts on a tablet would somehow just be "too much for you". You do realize that on the S3, all I have to do is pick it up and look at it and I'm in my phone. No password, no swype, nothing. While a password can be used, biometrics are the easiest and this is the future anyway.

You arguement also presumes that every family has a disposable income to buy multiple tablets. You don't seem to understand the real world, which leads me to believe you are a single person, no children, have a well paying job and live in an urban area, likely a major city.

KnightWRX
Aug 2, 2012, 12:13 PM
No you've built a nice strawman argument.

Password protecting my email is a far cry from having a totally separate user account login.

And again, how does "password protecting" each and every little thing (Facebook, E-mail, Music, Videos, Pictures) seperately make it better than just password protecting a whole profile ?

Didn't you yourself say that passwords are the most forgotten thing ? But here you are arguing that tablet users should remember multiple passwords instead of 1 ?

I don't get it.

Not to mention your way also precludes all the other things profiles bring :

- icon placement
- application restrictions (parental lock)
- desktop wallpapers
- alarm/bells/notification settings.

The reason why it doesn't make sense is because a tablet is $399 and if the iPad mini rumors are true we're looking at sub $300 pricing. At this point for the majority of "Apple" customers it's a better solution to purchase another iPad.

And it harms none of those users that the system is able to be used as a multi-user system, but it enables the function for those that don't want to spend 400$ multiple times. 400$ is a lot of money.

I understand the concept of user accounts but I don't think it makes sense in a tablet market that now starts at $199 for a very capable tablet (Nexus 7)

If it doesn't make sense to you, don't use it. Why argue against it ? All you've done here is make it so we can't discuss the feature, we're stuck discussing your opinion of it, which frankly matters little. What is your true goal here ?

The only thing that makes no sense is your continued participation in this thread unfortunately.

Eidorian
Aug 2, 2012, 12:13 PM
I saw the investigation over and Android Police too. I think Microsoft will actually have a multi-user product out first this October with Windows RT on a tablet. Android is more than likely the follow up.

Unless Windows RT completely gets rid of user accounts.

nuckinfutz
Aug 2, 2012, 12:18 PM
If it doesn't make sense to you, don't use it. Why argue against it ? All you've done here is make it so we can't discuss the feature, we're stuck discussing your opinion of it, which frankly matters little. What is your true goal here ?

The only thing that makes no sense is your continued participation in this thread unfortunately.

I have no skin in the game. If Apple delivers multi user then fine. I'm not wishing that you don't get it. That being said I'm just not sure i'm seeing a usage case for it in a tablet market that is making it hard to see the justification for buying an iPod Touch.

I understand your apprehension to contrarian position. If we get multi user great but I don't think it's particularly innovative.

Mac.World
Aug 2, 2012, 12:37 PM
I freely admit that I could be wrong, but I don't necessarily see the need for a user account system on a tablet. Accounts are for the segregation of data or the restriction of features and content. For the latter, there are no admin/superuser elements to settings or apps, and content restriction is better handled with a single password. Yes, one can make the argument that that's exactly what accounts do, but why have to deal with two passwords instead of one, especially in the case of parents supervising their children? Does the forthcoming Android feature properly evaluate scope of permissions so that the parent's account has admin privileges over other accounts? I doubt that parents would be happy with being as blind to their childrens' accounts as vice versa.

For the former, Apple need only allow the registration of multiple iCloud accounts to any eligible device, and the need for local user accounts for data segregation is obviated.
??? Again, do you not have a Mac computer? Parental controls are built right in. As the admin, you can see everything a guest or child has done.

As for root and superuser apps. Yes, we have those on Android, and that is the OS we are discussing in this forum. Most of us realize that Apple will never innovate this sort of thing, so I wouldn't expect it on an iphone or ipad for a minimum of 3-4 years, if ever. They will wait to see if it is successful on Android first.

----------

I have no skin in the game. If Apple delivers multi user then fine. I'm not wishing that you don't get it. That being said I'm just not sure i'm seeing a usage case for it in a tablet market that is making it hard to see the justification for buying an iPod Touch.

I understand your apprehension to contrarian position. If we get multi user great but I don't think it's particularly innovative.

As an Apple only user, you don't have to worry about it any time soon.

----------

I saw the investigation over and Android Police too. I think Microsoft will actually have a multi-user product out first this October with Windows RT on a tablet. Android is more than likely the follow up.

Doubtful the RT tablet would have it. It isn't the full OS of Windows 8.

The Pro version could likely have it, but based on the info provided, these are gonna be like the tablets running windows 7 now. Nothing butbastardized laptops with an os shoehorned in. Only difference is 8 is touch optimized and a few lines of code smaller.

This also assumes Microsoft and others actually get tablets with the ARM cpu out this year. I personally doubt they will. Expect a delay announcement next month pushing it to summer 2013.

onthecouchagain
Aug 2, 2012, 12:40 PM
Guys, don't you get how the game works, yet?

If Apple doesn't introduce it, it's wholly unnecessary.

If Apple introduces it, it's innovation at its finest.

Get with the program, you guys!


Anyway, I think like some have said, this would be great for tablets that are shared. Not just with family, but with friends who come over or friends who go with you on trips and say "can I check email or something on your iPad" or "can I play with your ipad"? Could be handy to have a sort of "guest account" or "children's account" that you can quickly switch to for little cousins/siblings that want to play with your iPad.

Too bad the iPad won't see this feature anytime soon. Shame because I'm not a big believer of Android on tablets. But awesome for Android overall.

matttye
Aug 2, 2012, 01:06 PM
Never

It's a stupid feature.

You're right, Apple should carry on focusing on those useful features like flyover maps :rolleyes:

jeffe
Aug 2, 2012, 09:18 PM
People don't need multi user on a tablet. All they need is the ability to password protect sensitive information.

You guys need to understand that one of the biggest issues is forgotten passwords. Adding multi user to a tablet just amplifies this issue.

I already use passwords on my tablets and it is super annoying. What I need is a multi-user environment. I need a tablet that can sit in the living room that anyone can pick up and use, and which also allows them to access apps, email, and whatever else that is personal to them.

As tablets continue to become an extension and a way of interacting with appliances throughout the house, it even makes more sense.

Finally, android can already recognize me by face so the tablet could just unlock by determining which face is currently looking at the device. no password needed.

Supa_Fly
Aug 6, 2012, 02:36 PM
One word: innovation :cool:

No, evolution. We've seen this already with desktop/server computing systems. To finally enable this on more mobile computing systems, its an evolution.

----------

Very much needed feature for tablets.

And iOS will include this feature in... 2015?

Hmm. iOS Multiple User has begun being considered since May 17th, 2012.
http://macdailynews.com/2012/05/07/apple-currently-investigating-ios-multi-user-support/

“Apple has signaled that it is aware of a desire to support multiple users on one iPad, and that the issue is ‘currently being investigated’ by the company’s engineering team,” Neil Hughes reports for AppleInsider
Read more at http://macdailynews.com/2012/05/07/apple-currently-investigating-ios-multi-user-support/#EcHW38eTt50TDSVa.99

interestingly is the official reply (when above was sent in by the developer as a suggestion, not a bug report).

Hughes reports, “In the suggestion submitted to Apple, the developer simply requested that the company add support for multiple users to the iPad. ‘After further investigation it has been determined that this is a known issue, which is currently being investigated by engineering,’ the official response from Apple Developer Connection’s Worldwide Developer Relations team reads.”
Read more at http://macdailynews.com/2012/05/07/apple-currently-investigating-ios-multi-user-support/#EcHW38eTt50TDSVa.99

Some things to consider though is:
Calls
- if you wish to switch users, would SIM/Provider Calls/VOIP calls be available (and how to separate Call Logs from one another - privacy).
SMS/MMS
- (same as above) essentially the same phone number would be used; however providers CAN enable 2 lines for 1 SIM card but does iOS allow the ability to switch between the lines?
Most importantly when the user is switched, will the call be "flawlessly" killed?! or will evolution in iOS+Providers Network auto-send the other party to VM with a quick prompt has the on-going call is auto terminated.

VoiceMail
- lockout between the users & lines.

Application Data
- Instead of locking out Applications being available to "other" users (from the primary user), why not have the Applications code to identify user saved data to be separate - EVEN when running from one user to the other. I'm sure this is radically complex and will take time (not just from 3rd party developers, but also from 1st party developers).
- its all about privacy; be fanatical Apple.

Networking Stacks:
Although being made available, users should be able to join other connections separately from the primary user.
- example: A primary iPad user inside a corporate office will have the WLAN radio connected to the internal SSID, providing access to intranet site, network shares (http/https/ftp/samba/etc), or printers. Yet switching users, that internal SSID will not be used, as the guest user may need to connect to their web-based email account (or Outlook WebMail), then try to gain access to internet. No internal network shares or services will be available.

daveathall
Aug 6, 2012, 03:15 PM
I would find this feature very useful for when my daughter and granddaughter visited. Me, my wife, daughter and granddaughter with different accounts would be just perfect on a tablet.