let our laptops look #1 dell in the eye on the pro level!

[jefhatfield]

apple ibook - $999
entry level dell laptop - $929-999

tibook - $2299
entry level high end dell laptop - well under two thousand dollars

i have no qualms about the ibook's pricing, but we need to have a sub-$2000 tibook in the worst way to keep up with dell's predatory low pricing...it's the only way apple can survive

we have a desktop in the way of the $799 crt imac and that won't be competitive until that comes down to five hundred dollars

if we can enter a pro level laptop into the sub-$2,000 dollar range, then complaints about macs being too expensive will not really hold up

i don't really care about the macs being slow argument because they seem fast enough for me, and much easier to use than windows

in all the gaps that exist between the dominating PC and the mac, the macs have closed the gap a lot in the past several months

what do you think and do you have any other mac improvement ideas for the future?

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
apple ibook - $999
entry level dell laptop - $929-999

tibook - $2299
entry level high end dell laptop - well under two thousand dollars

i have no qualms about the ibook's pricing, but we need to have a sub-$2000 tibook in the worst way to keep up with dell's predatory low pricing...it's the only way apple can survive

we have a desktop in the way of the $799 crt imac and that won't be competitive until that comes down to five hundred dollars

if we can enter a pro level laptop into the sub-$2,000 dollar range, then complaints about macs being too expensive will not really hold up

i don't really care about the macs being slow argument because they seem fast enough for me, and much easier to use than windows

in all the gaps that exist between the dominating PC and the mac, the macs have closed the gap a lot in the past several months

what do you think and do you have any other mac improvement ideas for the future?


I don't think that you can compare a sub $2000 Dell to any TiBook. It wouldn't be fair. The TiBook is made with much higher quality. As with any Apple product they test and ensure that all the hardware is of high quality and they build the system to work 100% seamlessly with the OS.

[timplaster]

12 I agree with Rooney, completely disagree with Hatfield. What makes Apple different is the quality of computers, not the price. And I don't think they should start now with price competition. Their low end models of computers are 1,000 times better that those of Dell or IBM, and they're the same price!!! I don't think you could beat that. Keep it up Apple.

[macmax]

We are always speaking that apple needs to do something to survive, guess what, apple is doing fine.

Under the circunstances of the whole market going down the drain, i think apple is doing well.

Of course i would love to see better prices, but i would likme to many things too and the pc doesn't deliver peace of mind for me.

If u talk to someone that owns a pc they will say they need their pcs, on the other hand , we say we love our macs

[macmax]

Originally posted by macmax
We are always speaking that apple needs to do something to survive, guess what, apple is doing fine.

Under the circunstances of the whole market going down the drain, i think apple is doing well.

Of course i would love to see better prices, but i would likme to many things too and the pc doesn't deliver peace of mind for me.

If u talk to someone that owns a pc they will say they need their pcs, on the other hand , we say we love our macs

then again , the apples don't need much care, the pc's on the other hand require a tech all the time.
This would be a great campain for the pc:
Buy your own pc, get a technician with it for only a hundred dollars more.
Spare parts not included

[Mr. Anderson]

Dell just lets other companies do the innovating and takes the technology and mass produces it to make it cheaper. Apple innovates, others copy from Apple. I don't think trying to compete directly with Dell is the best plan here.

Apple should focus on doing things better, not cheaper (in most cases).

[Ambrose Chapel]

You can get the 667 DVI TiBook for $1999...at least until they run out. :D

[ddtlm]

macmax:

then again , the apples don't need much care, the pc's on the other hand require a tech all the time.
Ignorant Mac-worshipping.

dukestreet:

Dell just lets other companies do the innovating and takes the technology and mass produces it to make it cheaper.
Yes, but this is an innovative strategy which is currently leading Dell to dominate the market. People poo-poo Dell for being "uncreative", yet noone else can come close to them.

MacBandit:

The TiBook is made with much higher quality
Remember paint chipping? Keys marking the screen? Disks getting stuck in the drive? Hinges breaking? Also note that the PBook uses the same RAM, video and disks as PC laptops... the screen is certainly no better than the "Ultrasharp" in Dell's 8200... I really don't see where everyone is getting "better quality" from. Ooo, I know, it's the shiny stuff they call tie-tane-ee-umm.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by ddtlm
macmax:


Ignorant Mac-worshipping.

dukestreet:


Yes, but this is an innovative strategy which is currently leading Dell to dominate the market. People poo-poo Dell for being "uncreative", yet noone else can come close to them.

MacBandit:


Remember paint chipping? Keys marking the screen? Disks getting stuck in the drive? Hinges breaking? Also note that the PBook uses the same RAM, video and disks as PC laptops... the screen is certainly no better than the "Ultrasharp" in Dell's 8200... I really don't see where everyone is getting "better quality" from. Ooo, I know, it's the shiny stuff they call tie-tane-ee-umm.

i hate to say it, but those are valid points

this is a business they are in and apple needs to lower the tibook

i give them credit from going from $2599 to $2299...they just need to go down three hundred more

[Macmaniac]

I won't consider the Dell an equal laptop until they can put a DVD burner into their laptops, and make it easier for movie editors on the go to use their software!!

Heck I'd take an iBook with a 30gig HD with a 12in screen over a tricked out Dell any day, It still can't compete when it comes to making movies.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Macmaniac
I won't consider the Dell an equal laptop until they can put a DVD burner into their laptops, and make it easier for movie editors on the go to use their software!!

Heck I'd take an iBook with a 30gig HD with a 12in screen over a tricked out Dell any day, It still can't compete when it comes to making movies.

actually, same here

i love my ibook:D

[ddtlm]

Macmaniac:

I won't consider the Dell an equal laptop until they can put a DVD burner into their laptops
The DVD burner showed up in PBooks, what, a week ago and laptops without it are already unacceptable to you? Ah hah. Sometimes I get the feeling that people are searching for ways to look down on PCs. Cmon, this is the choice of a computer... not a big deal.

[iGav]

Originally posted by ddtlm
Remember paint chipping? Keys marking the screen? Disks getting stuck in the drive? Hinges breaking? Also note that the PBook uses the same RAM, video and disks as PC laptops... the screen is certainly no better than the "Ultrasharp" in Dell's 8200... I really don't see where everyone is getting "better quality" from. Ooo, I know, it's the [i]shiny stuff they call tie-tane-ee-umm. [/B]

But iffy stuff is going to happen if you really push the engineering envelope like what Apple did with the TiBook......... The same happens no matter what the industry and it isn't unique to Apple!!

Remember Apple isn't the only one that has had quality problems with their laptops, Sony had big problems with early VAIOs, poor reliabilty and engineering quality problems........ And I'd still take a VAIO over a Dell any day of the week........

For the record I've never had any problems with paint finish, my hinges, keys marking my screen etc etc........ My TiBook is coming over 20 months old, and still looks fresh and new!, no scratches, no marks.......!! And no flakey paint!!

The only things that went on my laptop was the HD and screen.... neither are Apple produced!!

Dell is the 'TONKA TRUCK' of the notebook world........

[G4scott]

OK, here's how it is: Apple makes money by innovating. dell makes money by being wal-mart.

No one can afford to get into a price war with dell, unless they have enough cash to soak up the losses. Dell can build computers dirt-cheap (of course, this says alot about the computers...)

I'd rather have quality over quantity. A BMW beats a ford escort any day...

[lmalave]

Keep in mind that the Dell "Multimedia Powerhouse" Inspiron 8200 is 50% heavier and has probably half the battery life of a TiBook. Packing that much power into a 5.4 lb. TiBook is an engineering marvel, and if you compare it to Wintel Laptops with a similarly small size, I think you'll find they are at least as expensive as Apple's offerings.

[mcrain]

Originally posted by G4scott
OK, here's how it is: Apple makes money by innovating. dell makes money by being wal-mart.

No one can afford to get into a price war with dell, unless they have enough cash to soak up the losses. Dell can build computers dirt-cheap (of course, this says alot about the computers...)

I'd rather have quality over quantity. A BMW beats a ford escort any day...

I'll take my brand new 540i over an escort, just as I'll take my soon to be here computer over a dell. I have nothing against PC's or Dells (in fact am a current PC user), but Apple offers some intangibles that PC's don't. I want ease of use, stability, reliability, looks, and less hassles whenever I get a new program or piece of hardware. (I have had to replace two computers as a result of problems with adding new hardware or being unable to replace hardware that broke, plus I can't tell you how many times "plug and play" didn't work on a PC)

[ddtlm]

iGAV:

Remember Apple isn't the only one that has had quality problems with their laptops, Sony had big problems with early VAIOs, poor reliabilty and engineering quality problems........ And I'd still take a VAIO over a Dell any day of the week........
Note that I did not compare Apple to anyone, just pointed out their imperfection.

G4scott:

Dell can build computers dirt-cheap (of course, this says alot about the computers...)
Do you live in some other universe where angels sing at the mention of "Apple"? Didn't I list a number of serious issues with Apple's expensive PBook? How does that leave you any room to ridicule Dell?

[macmax]

Originally posted by ddtlm
macmax:


Ignorant Mac-worshipping.

dukestreet:


Yes, but this is an innovative strategy which is currently leading Dell to dominate the market. People poo-poo Dell for being "uncreative", yet noone else can come close to them.

MacBandit:


Remember paint chipping? Keys marking the screen? Disks getting stuck in the drive? Hinges breaking? Also note that the PBook uses the same RAM, video and disks as PC laptops... the screen is certainly no better than the "Ultrasharp" in Dell's 8200... I really don't see where everyone is getting "better quality" from. Ooo, I know, it's the shiny stuff they call tie-tane-ee-umm.

Yes , i am an ignorant.
It is just so i have 2 college degrees, i am really wealthy and i love my macs as much as i hate my pc.

Yes sir i am an ignorant , you have spoken in a very mature way.

I am sorry if i offended you, Dell can go to hell for all i care , and what i meant is that pcs need a tech at least twice tha time a mac does.



:mad:

[springscansing]

Originally posted by macmax


It is just so i have 2 college degrees, i am really wealthy and i love my macs

:mad:

Uh... am I missing the sarcasm, or are you a totally insecure jerk?

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by springscansing


Uh... am I missing the sarcasm, or are you a totally insecure jerk?

i don't know about him, but i have more edumacation than he does and i am poor, so that means i should have spent more time in the working world and less time in school:D :eek: ;)

[ddtlm]

macmax:

Interestingly, your response in no way refuted my accusation.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by ddtlm
macmax:

Interestingly, your response in no way refuted my accusation.

seriously though, i see good points to dell and apple's top end laptops and bad points also

i was a warranty tech (intern out of tech school) for apple, compaq, and dell and i only once saw a compaq in several months, never saw an apple, but did see many dell laptops with problems on them

i think even though the tibook has had some issues with the paint, hinges, etc..., i would still rather have a tibook than a high end dell 8200 laptop

the main issue i found with the dell was more related to the operating system and not the actual hardware, but the hardware issues on some dell models were more serious than something cosmetic than peeling paint

my rev. a ibook is so much better than my equally old pc laptop which i am typing on now, but cosmetically, the dull white finish on the ibook does seem to pick up smudgy fingerprints (over the years) while my black pc laptop only seems to show dust easily buy can just be dusted off from time to time

i have seen a paint touch up product for the tibook in one of the past issues of macworld which is made for this well known problem of the tibook

but i think it is pretty obvious that a tibook is better than a high end dell, unless you need a pc for certain progams

i have a pc only because i use it as a pc tech, but otherwise, my wife and i would be completely happy with the ibook...i use it for everything and my wife runs her part time design business using it (she replaced an expensive power tower pro desktop with the ibook and has never looked back...even when design types said you couldn't run design programs on it...but she has 20 years experience as a graphic designer so that is what the client is paying for ultimately)

at work she uses a g4 450 tower and it is faster, but really no more capable for what she needs it for

[macmax]

guys , i am not a jerk and never intended to bother anyone in this forum.

The thing is that i treat everybody here equally and with respect to be called ignorant.

I always try to help if i can and i apologize if someone was offended.

English is my second language and probably i took it personaly before.

Sorry again, as for the facts i stated, yes , probably i didn't stated them very well:

1- Apple should not try to compete with Dell with prices,instead Apple should find it's own niche and get a hold on it's strengh. research, a good machine and finding a way of educating people.

2- Most people i know don't buy an Apple because "it is not compatible"; but they only use office anyway

3- Apple does not need to develop great engineering, they have a great product, they need A VERY VERY GOOD MARKETING STRATEGY.
Apple needs to learn about this from microsuck,and create high expectatives from everything they will do.
An example:
I want a new pc but i am not content with what apple offers, i now they will be here in three weeks, but i know nothing of the specs, just rumors, then i go buy me a compaq , because i am not os sure if the new product will meet my expectatives.

Apple has been booting from an external drive since 1984,pcs, i think, since windows 2000.

But who knows this?

Microsoft is working on something that i can't remember now ,i will post on this saturday about this, everyone in the windows world is amazed, apple did this in 1992.

So , what i meant is that you have to be very careful, apple needs good marketing, and lower prices only with great marketing.

Sorry if i offended u before , had an early fight with someone and i guess i took it on you when i was called ignorant.
No hard feelings.

[Macmaniac]

Originally posted by ddtlm
Macmaniac:


The DVD burner showed up in PBooks, what, a week ago and laptops without it are already unacceptable to you? Ah hah. Sometimes I get the feeling that people are searching for ways to look down on PCs. Cmon, this is the choice of a computer... not a big deal.

As I noted I would take an iBook even though it does not have a DVD burner.

Actually the choice is a big deal if your grades depend on it, for that reason I buy macs because it the simplest and most efficent way to edit movies. Even Lucas used Macs for Starwars 2

[ddtlm]

jefhatfield:

Yeah Dell is certainly not perfect either. Mine has some areas where the fit and finish isn't quite right, and a little rubber area by the keyboard can contact the screen when it's closed. Win XP is good enough for my games, haven't used it for a whole lot else. :)

i would still rather have a tibook than a igh end dell 8200 laptop
I like the size of the 4150 much better, and it comes with all the same performance stuff except for video, which is only a Radeon 7500 Mob.

Anyway, if Apple would fix the paint issues, I would seriously consider a PBook that comes after the current model. Or whatever model they go to the 130nm G4.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by ddtlm
jefhatfield:

Yeah Dell is certainly not perfect either. Mine has some areas where the fit and finish isn't quite right, and a little rubber area by the keyboard can contact the screen when it's closed. Win XP is good enough for my games, haven't used it for a whole lot else. :)


I like the size of the 4150 much better, and it comes with all the same performance stuff except for video, which is only a Radeon 7500 Mob.

Anyway, if Apple would fix the paint issues, I would seriously consider a PBook that comes after the current model. Or whatever model they go to the 130nm G4.

i went thru a period, when i was first a tech a few years back and starting out working with broken dell laptops, that i though dell sucked

but compared to my compaq laptop, which i keep healthy (which is key...always defrag ;) ), dell gets pretty good reviews

i have considered getting a p4 dell laptop and $1249 us is hard to beat and if something goes wrong with it, i have a huge advantage knowing these machines and having my former mentor who taught me the dell stuff, just a phone call away

with service related issues, it's always good to know a techie as a friend instead of blindly dropping off your machine at the closest computer superstore

in the small area where i live and everybody knows everybody, the local independent apple dealer here, while not dirt cheap, will still not knowlingly rip you off

they carry products they know that work from decades of being in the high tech, and later, the home pc business

the official apple store i have seen sells things based on corporate connections and good volume deals, so if you buy anything from an apple store, research the heck out of it first

i don't have to worry about it at the local independent apple store where i live because instead of a genius bar, there are techie salespeople that have actually used the products and hand picked them from their experiences and the experiences of their loyal clientele

i will get another ibook next year...that is a given

but for my pc business, i will need windows xp for initial microsoft re-certification and get to know the thing inside and out, and then i will need it for my computer teaching job of teaching seniors new pc games on the market

so i have been looking into a dell, or a compaq 700 series, or maybe even an ibm (but ibm's retail, business and home pc division, tanked so i could only buy the machines sight unseen, online)

the dells are so common, i just have to look around the school or ask friends

it is funny how when i first started using the apple IIs and mac, ibm was the enemy

and after the huge success of windows, then microsoft was the enemy

and now with mike dell controlling the hardware market, dell is apple's sworn enemy

it is a free country and ok to have a mac and a windows running dell machine:eek: :p