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VinegarTasters
Aug 12, 2012, 05:07 AM
If you use your Mac as a Wi-Fi hotspot, OSX Mountain Lion removed the ability to use WEP security protocol, and forced you to either use None or WPA2 security protocol. This is bad for older devices that do not support WPA2, but only support WEP. If you don't want to risk using None as security protocol when connecting these devices, you can use the SECRET option key combo to turn on WEP 40-bit and 128-bit security in the menu selection.

Here is the video showing where:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAV5hkNT7FA



CyBeRino
Aug 12, 2012, 05:34 AM
Of course WEP is practically the same as no security anyway, so why bother?

SpyderBite
Aug 12, 2012, 05:47 AM
In what scenario would somebody use their Mac as a wifi hotspot instead of just installing a wifi router that supports all the latest protocols?

VinegarTasters
Aug 12, 2012, 06:18 AM
In what scenario would somebody use their Mac as a wifi hotspot instead of just installing a wifi router that supports all the latest protocols?

How about all those devices made before WPA2 was invented, and they all used WEP protocol? I think the most popular device would be the Sony PSP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYpxKh7nKiI

brand
Aug 12, 2012, 09:42 AM
How about all those devices made before WPA2 was invented

Thats a good point. Use WPA instead.

SandboxGeneral
Aug 12, 2012, 09:45 AM
For all the older devices that only have WEP, I would say its time to upgrade to something newer that supports a robust and tested security protocol. If one must keep an older device, such as the PSP, as mentioned, I'd recommend getting a cheap wireless router and use it strictly for the one device that is WEP only and make sure all other devices are on a WPA2 secured network.

VinegarTasters
Aug 12, 2012, 11:03 PM
For all the older devices that only have WEP, I would say its time to upgrade to something newer that supports a robust and tested security protocol. If one must keep an older device, such as the PSP, as mentioned, I'd recommend getting a cheap wireless router and use it strictly for the one device that is WEP only and make sure all other devices are on a WPA2 secured network.

Why would anyone want to buy ANOTHER wireless router when you already can use your MAC as a hotspot? Just share your ethernet via wi-fi, and you are good to go. It only takes a few clicks to switch to WEP when you connect to PSP, and a few clicks to switch back when you use WPA2 for maybe iPhone and such.

I think two wireless routers in close proximity degrades performance. It also gives you more headaches (and for some people skin tingling) the more wi-fi hotspots there are in a given location.

pdjudd
Aug 13, 2012, 12:34 AM
(and for some people skin tingling) .

No. Actually it's purely psychosomatic. There is no mechanism that this can happen despite individual claims. Hotspots are simply not powerful enough to cause the physical response that you describe. No way no how. If you know of any documented scientific findings (the whole 9 yards of course - no antidotal citations - that's useless) that can legitimately show such a link (and it has to come from mainstream resources that have credibility) please post it.

VinegarTasters
Aug 13, 2012, 01:04 PM
No. Actually it's purely psychosomatic. There is no mechanism that this can happen despite individual claims. Hotspots are simply not powerful enough to cause the physical response that you describe. No way no how. If you know of any documented scientific findings (the whole 9 yards of course - no antidotal citations - that's useless) that can legitimately show such a link (and it has to come from mainstream resources that have credibility) please post it.

Oh, come on. EVERYONE knows EMR is dangerous. The disagreement is what frequency and what power output it is "considered dangerous". If you think it is NOT dangerous, try microwaving your hand, or stand in the sun without sunscreen for a long period of time, or even try to approach a cellphone tower without seeing signs saying EMR is hazardous to your health.

A lot of research was done proving EMR and EMF are dangerous, but the guy ended up dead. Luckily he had some papers published.

http://www.neilcherry.com/documents.php

Look for:
Cancer rates of people near cellphone towers are higher.
EMR (like from Wi-Fi) decreases melatonin production (bad for sleep cycle), and it also increases bacteria's production rate.

Of course you already heard about high power EMR is "carcinogenic" from World Health Organization.

Bla Bla Bla... Actually this is not my fight. I am sure there are lots of people who are benefiting from this technology, but I think low frequency and low power should be the direction.

pdjudd
Aug 13, 2012, 01:09 PM
I can tell you right off the bat that something self published doesn't mean much to me or anybody else. We need peer review journals. And don't go asking me to do Google searches. You made the claim in the first place. Onus is on you here to provide the research. I'll help you out. Blinded test on people who claim to have sensitivity have never been reliably replicated in trials.

Although individuals who report electromagnetic hypersensitivity believe that electromagnetic fields from common electrical devices trigger or exacerbate their symptoms, it has not been established that these fields play any role in the cause of these symptoms
Source (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_hypersensitivity#Scientific_evidence_and_etiology)

VinegarTasters
Aug 13, 2012, 02:26 PM
I can tell you right off the bat that something self published doesn't mean much to me or anybody else. We need peer review journals. And don't go asking me to do Google searches. You made the claim in the first place. Onus is on you here to provide the research. I'll help you out. Blinded test on people who claim to have sensitivity have never been reliably replicated in trials.


Source (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_hypersensitivity#Scientific_evidence_and_etiology)

Come on... Give me a break. The guy has a doctorate degree. He has at least 3 published papers in that link I gave.

http://www.neilcherry.com/documents.php


BUT, if you are picky, you can always look at the national institute of health.
There are TONS of papers showing a link between EMR/EMF on your body. But why do you need other's opinion? Just think scientifically and you will lead to the same conclusion. Why does water vibrate in a microwave oven? The same frequency as Wi-Fi. The ONLY difference is power output. Either you vibrate things over long term at low power, or you vibrate things over a short term at high power.

Think of it as a nuclear powered submarine analogy. Either stay a short while near the reactor. Or stay a long while further away from the reactor. But you still need to get out of there at some time or the radiation level becomes too toxic for your body. Unfortunately, hotspots are always on, so longer term the probability adds up something bad is gonna happen. Just like staying in the sun a short time is ok, but stay too long you get skin cancer. Obviously you don't need research papers to know that.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19464814
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19407555
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17351512
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17130668
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16836875
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15875777
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15750583
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14635193
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8722117
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9933863
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1626106

pdjudd
Aug 13, 2012, 03:06 PM
But why do you need other's opinion?
Because that's how science works - a theory is pretty useless without somebody to check out said theory. And power is everything. Wi-Fi is nowhere near the scale of a microwave so comparing the two is silly. Again. There is no estabished correlation with wi-fi and the physical responces that you cite that can show a significant correlation. At best you get the weak "more research is needed".

Once again, I never said that EM has no effect on the body. But I did say that there is no proof that Wi-Fi has any physical effects on the body. And there is no proof out there. Nothing that can be shown to establish a firm link.

VinegarTasters
Aug 13, 2012, 03:56 PM
Because that's how science works - a theory is pretty useless without somebody to check out said theory. And power is everything. Wi-Fi is nowhere near the scale of a microwave so comparing the two is silly. Again. There is no estabished correlation with wi-fi and the physical responces that you cite that can show a significant correlation. At best you get the weak "more research is needed".

Once again, I never said that EM has no effect on the body. But I did say that there is no proof that Wi-Fi has any physical effects on the body. And there is no proof out there. Nothing that can be shown to establish a firm link.

You didn't read the first link's papers?

I also threw out a few links from NIH. Looks like you didn't read through them. I've edited the links so there is definitely a link between EM and your body in all the links. FIY there is no difference between EM and Wi-Fi... Wi-Fi uses EM.

bogatyr
Aug 13, 2012, 04:01 PM
Back on topic - Anyone who is going to snoop on your wireless connection can break WEP in 60 seconds or so with the many free tools on the net.

Backtrack would be the first to come to mind, completely packaged Live OS for security auditing.

And if you're only using your PSP on it then switching it back to WPA2 after - why bother with any encryption for game data? Does the PSP have things that use credit card or banking info?

pdjudd
Aug 13, 2012, 04:26 PM
FIY there is no difference between EM and Wi-Fi... Wi-Fi uses EM.
I know - but as you said power is everything and the power that Wi fi is broadcast is at is no different than what is out there normally in the background. It isn't powerful enough to do anything that can be demonstrably shown.

Feed Me
Aug 13, 2012, 04:35 PM
Somebooodyy needs to learn the difference between ionising and non-ionising radiation.

ChristianJapan
Aug 13, 2012, 04:41 PM
OP: Get an AirPort Extreme and set up a secure network for regular use and a non secure version as guest network. Don't downgrade your overall security because of a PSP.

Icy1007
Aug 13, 2012, 07:16 PM
WEP is useless. Just use none if your device only supports WEP.

I know the PSP at least supports WPA with the latest official firmware.

pdjudd
Aug 13, 2012, 08:05 PM
Somebooodyy needs to learn the difference between ionising and non-ionising radiation.

I'm fairly confident I know the difference between the two. Enough to know that Wi-Fi is non ionizing and isn't powerful enough to do much to you. If it was, we could detect it simply by heat alone. It doesn't make the air warmer.

Feed Me
Aug 14, 2012, 02:56 AM
I'm fairly confident I know the difference between the two. Enough to know that Wi-Fi is non ionizing and isn't powerful enough to do much to you. If it was, we could detect it simply by heat alone. It doesn't make the air warmer.

my comment was aimed at OP :P

VinegarTasters
Aug 18, 2012, 11:16 PM
I am surprised that people simply spew something they read without ever knowing what the terms mean. Here is the definition ionizing and non-ionizing radiation from the internet:

"Because living tissue is 70-90% water by weight, the dividing line between radiation that excites electrons and radiation that forms ions is often assumed to be equal to the ionization of water: 1216 kJ/mol. Radiation that carries less energy can only excite the water molecule. It is therefore called non-ionizing radiation. Radiation that carries more energy than 1216 kJ/mol can remove an electron from a water molecule, and is therefore called ionizing radiation."

How does that change anything listed in my comments? Microwaves still will boil your hand, and you are telling me that will have no affect on your body? Excitation or electron removal is not the defining term. It is what the radiation does to your body. Just read all the NIH links.

But back on topic about secret settings in Mountain Lion OSX...

Here is a way to force quit the current running application... The video shows the keycombo when pressing the secret shift key. (you don't need to be in the Apple menu when executing the combo).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dNRmYoOL3I

As for the guy asking about does the PSP do anything the needs security... It has a browser, and you can buy things from the PlayStation Store, so anything you do that needs protection in iPhone applies to the PSP as well. Hmm... look here:

http://www.edepot.com/reviews_sony_psp.html

pdjudd
Aug 19, 2012, 01:41 AM
my comment was aimed at OP :P

I know - I was just adding my point. Wi-Fi just isn't powerful enough nor is it directional enough to cause any harm nor make you sick. Nobody has ever found a provable correlative link and nobody has been able show a mechanism for how it could cause illness.

I personally think its people who are misapplying correlation with causation until they are convincing themselves that they cannot be wrong.

How does that change anything listed in my comments? Microwaves still will boil your hand, and you are telling me that will have no affect on your body? Excitation or electron removal is not the defining term. It is what the radiation does to your body. Just read all the NIH links.

That's the point. Non ionizing radiation (like EM) has to be very directional and very powerful to cause any harm. That's why microwaves work, they are powerful directional devices that are restricted to a limited area. Wi-Fi isn't doing it. If it could, we would be detecting it in the air. It doesn't. It isn't focussed and it isn't strong. In fact it's not any worse than any other cordless technology.

Since it doesn't heat your body up (And it can't since any effect would dissipate quickly over distance), how else is it going to affect your body if it is non-ioninizing? Comparing wi-fi to microwaves isn't an accurate comparison. They aren't doing the same thing.

fteoath64
Aug 19, 2012, 05:24 AM
You didn't read the first link's papers?

I also threw out a few links from NIH. Looks like you didn't read through them. I've edited the links so there is definitely a link between EM and your body in all the links. FIY there is no difference between EM and Wi-Fi... Wi-Fi uses EM.

You are right!. A lot of people were just "mind controlled" by the mainstream. I must admit I was until several years ago when I started to question and began looking for answers. The true answers many people will NOT accept for many reasons. One is the mind control programming which is ingrained and runs unchecked. Just try this with your partner or someone close to you. Try to trigger some anger response (just as a test). Once triggered, a program runs just like you have seen before. Why is that ?. Well, mind programmed with no WILL to check the input stimulus. This is rampant in USA and it is why you can have the system going the state it is and no-one seemed to care. Yeah, there were people voicing the truth and see how many are alive now. Why ? You must ask. The answer will come to you. It is out there in the clear. You need to train your eyes to see it and your brain to interpret it right. And if you study RV and do it. You will find out what and why, hopefully be able to live with it. Many cannot live with the real truth unfortunately.

SlCKB0Y
Aug 19, 2012, 08:02 AM
You are right!. A lot of people were just "mind controlled" by the mainstream. I must admit ...

...The answer will come to you. It is out there in the clear. You need to train your eyes to see it and your brain to interpret it right. And if you study RV and do it. You will find out what and why, hopefully be able to live with it. Many cannot live with the real truth unfortunately.

Please don't take this the wrong way ... but I think you need to go and see your doctor and either start your medication or up your current dose.
:D

pdjudd
Aug 19, 2012, 09:10 AM
Please don't take this the wrong way ... but I think you need to go and see your doctor and either start your medication or up your current dose.

I think he is being sarcastic - his thread starts out with a ;) icon in the subject bar. At least I HOPE he is being sarcastic.

SlCKB0Y
Aug 19, 2012, 09:32 AM
I think he is being sarcastic - his thread starts out with a ;) icon in the subject bar. At least I HOPE he is being sarcastic.

Ahahaha. It's late here and my sarcasm meter has already gone to sleep for the night but yes, I hope they weren't being serious!
:D

VinegarTasters
Aug 20, 2012, 12:18 AM
I find it funny. I really don't care that much about this issue. As I said, it is not my fight. But what is interesting is that people pay more attention to criticism or ridicule rather than objectively trying to find the truth. No one seems to want to read from the doctorate degree's findings. No one seems to want to read the National Institute of Health links. But people pay more attention when Sickboy uses ridicule and personal attacks to silence people.

It is obvious that a suntanning machine is non-ionizing. But everyone knows it is dangerous to stay in there too long. Your meat is gonna get cooked. So this goes back to the start of this long thread. Having two hotspots is gonna increase the chance of the EM doing damage to you. Just like increasing the power. In fact, you can stick your hand in a Microwave oven and put it at low power. You won't feel a thing. But it would be crazy to leave it in there for a long period of time. In fact, if you left this microwave oven door open and leave it always on in your room, it is EXACTLY the same as a Wi-Fi hotspot. Same frequency. Same waves bouncing around in a larger box (your room).

As for directional or non-directional, that is nonsense. A microwave is not directional. The waves actually bounce in that box (the microwave oven), similar to EM will bounce around inside your home. The only thing that matters is power output, and the number of sources, and how long you stay in there. And I think this is the sticking point... cellphones emit very high power. Cell towers are sometimes miles away and EACH phone needs to send back that far away every 2 two 3 seconds just to remain on.

Ok. This subject is getting boring. I am sure the telecom and other industries will use the same techniques as the cigarette companies to keep making a profit. The World Health Organization already categorizes it as "carcinogenic". So it is a battle between the doctors and the telecom. One trying to protect your health. The other trying to make money. And from looking at the cigarette companies, I think they are still making money, even though you know by now it causes cancer.

pdjudd
Aug 20, 2012, 07:22 AM
It is obvious that a suntanning machine is non-ionizing. But everyone knows it is dangerous to stay in there too long.

Of course. Light from the Sun can cause heat. We have a known mechanism.

Your meat is gonna get cooked. So this goes back to the start of this long thread. Having two hotspots is gonna increase the chance of the EM doing damage to you.
Nope. That has never been established period.

Just like increasing the power.

No. That is not true at all.


In fact, you can stick your hand in a Microwave oven and put it at low power. You won't feel a thing. But it would be crazy to leave it in there for a long period of time. In fact, if you left this microwave oven door open and leave it always on in your room, it is EXACTLY the same as a Wi-Fi hotspot. Same frequency. Same waves bouncing around in a larger box (your room).

Stop the comparison with microwaves. They operate very differently at extremely higher amounts of power.

As for directional or non-directional, that is nonsense. A microwave is not directional. The waves actually bounce in that box (the microwave oven), similar to EM will bounce around inside your home.

EM is everywhere, but the microwave is indeed directional - it emits from one point and is restricted to the box itself


The only thing that matters is power output, and the number of sources, and how long you stay in there. And I think this is the sticking point... cellphones emit very high power. Cell towers are sometimes miles away and EACH phone needs to send back that far away every 2 two 3 seconds just to remain on.

It is not enough to raise the temperature around the device. This can be directly observed.

Ok. This subject is getting boring. I am sure the telecom and other industries will use the same techniques as the cigarette companies to keep making a profit.
Non sequitor straw man.

The World Health Organization already categorizes it as "carcinogenic".

That is a misleading statement. First the WHO classification has nothing to do with Wi-Fi but Cell Phones. Second, their classification is based on a possible risk, not an actual risk. That is what the classification actually means. It includes things like:

Bracken fern
Coffee
Gasoline
Nickel
Lead
Safrole (sassafras oil)
E-glass fibres
Talcum powder

Source (http://yyjskeptics.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/is-wi-fi-harmful/)

And if you want to quote the WHO you should actually read what they say on the subject:
...Current evidence does not confirm the existence of any health consequences from exposure to low level electromagnetic fields.
Source (http://www.who.int/peh-emf/about/WhatisEMF/en/index1.html)

This guy (http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4273) has a great article backed up by several sources. He says the same thing I do - Wi-Fi doesn't produce enough heat and is not focused.


Seriously. I hammer this point, since the idea of Wi-Fi sickness is Junk Science. Pure and simple

SlCKB0Y
Aug 20, 2012, 08:01 AM
Of course WEP is practically the same as no security anyway, so why bother?

Not really. Sure, anyone who really wants break wep will get in but it would prevent the kind of opportunistic usage of his wifi access which I believe would be by far the most common. Eg, Neighbour or passerby sees an open access point and thinks "why not?".

Paradoxally
Aug 20, 2012, 08:13 AM
You are right!. A lot of people were just "mind controlled" by the mainstream. I must admit I was until several years ago when I started to question and began looking for answers. ...

What the hell are you on?

VinegarTasters
Aug 23, 2012, 05:09 AM
Here we go again. I think some people are so exposed to media that they can't think for themselves. NIH links are there for you to read. Please read them before continuing. I believe the original person who started this wi-fi argument wanted published. Those are published. Ignoring those links won't make you right.

About tanning machines... They increase your cancer risk. Remember... Tanning machines are non-ionizing. If they only heat your skin, why are
people getting skin cancer?

Here...
http://www.cancer.org/AboutUs/DrLensBlog/post/2012/05/11/The-Sad-News-About-Tanning-Beds-And-Sun-Safe-Behaviors-The-Price-We-May-Pay-For-Ignoring-The-Message.aspx


A microwave uses a magnetron. It is not directional. Similar to a Wi-Fi. BECAUSE it is not directional, microwaves uses a waveguide, but the majority of the radiation heating is from waves bouncing back and forth everywhere in the box. If it doesn't bounce back and forth in the box, like wi-fi bouncing in your room, you won't be able to heat your food, like you won't be able to connect to your wi-fi. The food must meet the waves. Just like your computer needs to meet the wi-fi in whatever corner of the room you are in.

If no one here is scientific enough to read papers, maybe I can provide a mass media link (youtube) people are more used to. Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN7VetsCR2I

A blind test shows (near the 5:30 mark) shows there are people who are sensitive to Wi-Fi and can detect it and affects his heart. Children, being more sensitive, are affected greater. Remember, the amount of power that is considered "safe" is arbitrary... It is DIFFERENT around the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjjbgBstnj4

A microwave is the same frequency as wi-fi. The only difference is power level. And the power level considered safe is different around the world. So it is definitely ok to compare.

I don't understand why you must feel heat to think wi-fi is dangerous. You don't feel x-rays, but you know that is dangerous. Look, I provided the NIH links. If you want to continue arguing but not even look at the links, it looks like this argument already ended (you are denying facts).


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19464814
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19407555
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17351512
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17130668
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16836875
http://www.neilcherry.com/documents.php
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15875777
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15750583
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14635193
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8722117
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9933863
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1626106

If you don't take respond to those links, there is no point in arguing. Just swinging back and forth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPq_9qlEdaQ