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View Full Version : just got back from the MS tablet PC launch.


ninjachild
Nov 12, 2002, 01:06 PM
interesting,

thats about all i have to say,
in theory it looks great,

but it remains to be seen for actual business

where the flesh meets the keypad,

so to speak,

anyone else go

thoughts opinions?

insidedanshead
Nov 12, 2002, 01:29 PM
Yeah.. the only people I see using it are inventory people.. UPS drivers and such.. but I don't think they need something that fancy.. if you ask me MS is entering a shaky uncertain market with this.. but who really cares about MS .. isn't this MACrumors?

jayscheuerle
Nov 12, 2002, 01:53 PM
Most people can type far faster than they can write. Writing is too slow. Voice recognition makes more sense.

This could be the breakthrough that NFL and NBA coaches (and John Madden) have dreamed of.

Here's an idea! A tablet that you hold with both hands in front of you. The keyboard is on the underside, split into the left and right sides. The left thumb works a space bar and the right works a little joystick. It would take a little training for all the hunt and peckers out there, but they should be touch-typing anyways these days... - j

ddtlm
Nov 12, 2002, 02:08 PM
Tablet PC's are just a stupid pseudo-revolutionary concept that PC makers want to use to increase sales, in my humble opinion.

Voice recognition has a number of applications but is also overhyped, in my humble opinion.

jayscheuerle
Nov 12, 2002, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by ddtlm
Voice recognition has a number of applications but is also overhyped, in my humble opinion.

I agree, but I think that it hasn't found its niche yet. It's being forced to be seen as a global subsitute for typing, but I think in terms of sending email via PDAs or Cells, it's a great idea. When typing isn't available, it's the next best thing provided you don't have to yell or talk artificially to make it work.

An ideal walkabout device would clip over the ear, have a small, unidirectional mike that came down in front of your mouth so that you could whisper, and a wand that projected a screen directly on your retina while tracking your eye movements for cursor reference.

- j

insidedanshead
Nov 12, 2002, 02:31 PM
Yeah.. and could you beam me up while your at it? haha jk...

technology will never cease to amaze me.. and the retina tracking cursor probably someday will become a reality...

Fins160
Nov 12, 2002, 02:32 PM
Sounds to me like a really big palm pilot. I thought they were trying to make those things smaller! :-)

jayscheuerle
Nov 12, 2002, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by insidedanshead
Yeah.. and could you beam me up while your at it? haha jk...

technology will never cease to amaze me.. and the retina tracking cursor probably someday will become a reality...

We're getting closer...

here (http://www.microopticalcorp.com/products.html)

and here. (http://www.xybernaut.com/Solutions/product/poma_product.htm)

The retinal thing is a reality... (http://www.hitl.washington.edu/research/vrd/project.html)



Now, we need the right OS on top of these things though....

BenderBot1138
Nov 12, 2002, 03:21 PM
Are these anti-Inkwell sentiments?

:cool:

ninjachild
Nov 12, 2002, 04:26 PM
just FYI, i went because of work,

it was kind of interesting but there were more nerd than at taco bell....

HEEEYOOO!

i thought that it is interesting that tablet PCs have taken a step back in tech, most have pentium III's ,and one has a pentium II,

HA! a top of the line laptop with a PII,

puhleeaze.

plus the max battery life on the best one was alittle under two hours..........

thats a little time, for a whole lot of charging.

anyways, just FYI, hadn't seen a post from anyone who had actually seen one.

and it doesn't replace typing two out of the three models were just laptops with flip over screens.

the real cool thing is the screen is coated with a texture so it doesn't feel like glass, and more like paper.

Kid Red
Nov 12, 2002, 04:30 PM
Bill Gates himself said his handwriting recognition software was a breakthrough. He also added that it's not going to replace keyboards and it's really good for a short email. If you want to write something longer to use a keyboard.

Well, that doesn't sound very breakthrough-ish but does sound like a waste of time and money.

gandalf55
Nov 12, 2002, 04:51 PM
did it have a software keyboard? if it did, that would be huge. handwriting recognition isn't that great - by any OS. i def. type quicker than i can write. if i can tap out on a software keyboard that's reliable, thats a great input for a tablet pc.

i need more power than a tablet pc could give - it would be a nice toy though.

my only main concerns is a Mac OS, and 2 monitors for authoring in the apps i like to use (palette monitor & working monitor.) bill can have his tablet pc. i don't see a need for it for myself - and i'm trying hard to come up with one cause i love gadgets.

cr2sh
Nov 12, 2002, 05:12 PM
I've been using tablet Pcs for several years now in the field, for differential GPS and utility mapping, granted - the units we've been using (up until very recently) were monochrome based, p133 - but overall I've always been impressed with them. they operate on windows95, they're water tight, and they take a pretty good drop without a problem.
The difficulty in these things come from the lcd screen being exposed to sunlight. It heats up the crystals and the screens become unusable until the cool back down. Also, the cramp you get in your neck after carrying these things around and bending your neck to look at them - you develop stronger muscles, but until then, it just freaking hurts.

Walkabout has a new hammerhead model out that we're using now, a color LCD(800x600) and a p3@400mhz. Overall, it is a stunning piece of technology. Its a little bit heavy and it operates on 2000 professional, which is a little slow, but again - its not bad.

Could I see using one on a day-to-day basis for personal use? Maybe. If they get the weight down, increase resolution, and throw in some neat software (vector recognition for CAD) then yes.. I could. Typing is a pain in the ass, you have the tiny little field that you have to type the file name in (during the saving process) and that is always tiresome.
Could it replace the laptop? Yes and I think it will, but the current OS were built with the primary input being a keyboard/mouse, if we're going to be writing, it needs to be rethought.

This is the current makerand design:
http://www.walkabout-comp.com/products_specs_hammer.html

insidedanshead
Nov 12, 2002, 05:28 PM
You are speaking from a VERY SELECT field.. i think yes the tablet PC will replace a regular laptop in your field of work but in terms of replacing a laptop for other regular work.. the most it will do is coincide with laptops..

cubist
Nov 12, 2002, 05:45 PM
... than a completely standalone computer.

It shouldn't have a hard drive; it should be a remote terminal to Mac OS X (server?) with its own remote aqua desktop. It should use Airport to talk to the server. It should not run programs or store data in any fashion. And it should cost $400 or less.

I do not care about a standalone portable pen-based computer. I had a 730T I got off ebay (go and get all you like, they're out there). It was rugged, and it worked perfectly. And so what? In the end, it's a standalone computer, and not a very good one at that, so you need the server-type machine ANYWAY.

cr2sh
Nov 12, 2002, 05:49 PM
You're right, the applications within our area requires special hardware, thats why we've been using them all along when no one else seems to have the need, but having used them I can see how well they could work for students, police officers and almost any field work or inventory.
There are problems with it, no doubt, it will not replace the desktop. Only time will tell I guess, and I have NO faith in Microsoft's ability to design something well or engineer it correctly. Their one strenght is that He believes in it, and He has an unlimited amount of money to lose on a venture that does has a maket.

WannabeSQ
Nov 12, 2002, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Most people can type far faster than they can write. Writing is too slow. Voice recognition makes more sense.

This could be the breakthrough that NFL and NBA coaches (and John Madden) have dreamed of.

Here's an idea! A tablet that you hold with both hands in front of you. The keyboard is on the underside, split into the left and right sides. The left thumb works a space bar and the right works a little joystick. It would take a little training for all the hunt and peckers out there, but they should be touch-typing anyways these days... - j

Im liking this idea, it could be even better if it could flip around normally, and the keyboard could slide to a normal position, and use it as a standard laptop. And instead of a joystick, a trackpad could work also. Id love to be able to type standing up, provided it was not too awkward.

jadam
Nov 12, 2002, 10:12 PM
problem with voice recognitiion is that when you talk you block the nuerons that allow you to think. It was a study conducted a while back.

cr2sh
Nov 12, 2002, 11:06 PM
not to jump to far of the subject, but if that is true - how is reading outloud performed?

zorblaz
Nov 13, 2002, 12:34 AM
I was listening to "Science Friday" on NPR this past... well, Friday... and the guy they were talking to about holiday tech items was everything but impressed with M$'s offering- saying that the handwriting recognition was not great and some consumers will be put off by it not having a keyboard etc. (saying it's cool for about 10 minutes)

The program is in realaudio if anyone wants to hear it....
http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.jhtml?prgId=5&prgDate=November/8/2002

click on the "smallpox/high tech gifts" link (down further on the page)
and go 33:15 into the clip.
(he also talks about OS X)

redAPPLE
Nov 13, 2002, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by jadam
problem with voice recognitiion is that when you talk you block the nuerons that allow you to think. It was a study conducted a while back.

amazing jadam. could you tell me where you found this "study"?

alset
Nov 13, 2002, 03:25 AM
As I see it, this machine has two target markets and it misses both of them.

The first is the tablet crowd; people who need to control their cursor for design. This makes no sense because we can all buy a more powerful machine desktop for the same cost and add a decent tablet for a couple hundred bucks or less.

The second is the PDA crowd. As mentioned in an above post, what's the point? PDAs use handwriting recognition as a substitute for lack of space. It isn't so much a replacement for the keyboard as it is a substitute.

With any luck, consumers will realize, at least to some degree, a few of these downfalls.

That's just my opinion; how about yours?

Dan

alset
Nov 13, 2002, 03:33 AM
As I see it, this machine has two target markets and it misses both of them.

The first is the tablet crowd; people who need to control their cursor for design. This makes no sense because we can all buy a more powerful machine desktop for the same cost and add a decent tablet for a couple hundred bucks or less.

The second is the PDA crowd. As mentioned in an above post, what's the point? PDAs use handwriting recognition as a substitute for lack of space. It isn't so much a replacement for the keyboard as it is a substitute.

With any luck, consumers will realize, at least to some degree, a few of these downfalls.

That's just my opinion; how about yours?

Dan

alset
Nov 13, 2002, 03:35 AM
Please forgive the double post. I was trying to throw my two cents in during system maintenance.

Dan

AmigaMac
Nov 13, 2002, 07:58 AM
The Tablet PC is just a gimic... and besides, my handwriting sucks! So I won't be looking into one!!

trusted_content
Nov 13, 2002, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Here's an idea! A tablet that you hold with both hands in front of you. The keyboard is on the underside, split into the left and right sides. The left thumb works a space bar and the right works a little joystick. It would take a little training for all the hunt and peckers out there, but they should be touch-typing anyways these days... - j

Thats funny, I had exactly the same idea a few days ago. I sketched it out in a way where the back keyboards could be rotated around to the front and it could become a regular laptop. With the keys on the back it would be called "Accordion Mode" :p




heck id use an iCordion... heres another tight feature... imagine a tablet Mac with a digital camera perfectly centered in the back so you just hold up the tablet to whatever you want to capture and see the picture being framed on the LCD... hmmmmmm.... :D

WannabeSQ
Nov 13, 2002, 07:32 PM
Now that would be a truely original product, and if priced right with decent performance and features, i think could be a good product.

It would be really cool if the digital camera was of good quality. It would be the epitomy of the Digital Hub. Put a low power iPod emulation mode or something and use it as an MP3 player, without running down the battery as much, with either a second iPod lcd somewhere or only using part of the lcd (be cool, but dont know how it would work) and have digicam mode, where it doesnt run Mac OS, but works like a normal digital camera, with built in air port and auto syncs with iSync to your home mac.

Hey, just thought of another idea. Make it have a firewire (or gigawire, or something) docking port for faster than airport transfers when at a desktop and use it as a second monitor. if it was between $500 and $1000 id be waiting in front of the apple store on launch day to get one.

ninjachild
Nov 14, 2002, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by trusted_content

... heres another tight feature... imagine a tablet Mac with a digital camera perfectly centered in the back so you just hold up the tablet to whatever you want to capture and see the picture being framed on the LCD... hmmmmmm.... :D

7-eleven actually did this with the tablet pcs
helped speed up inventory time, and saved them like 7 million last year,

its not right in the back of the tablet, but a card that is stuck in the pcmcia slot,
and syncs back with their home drive automatically filing the report,

besides i would worry about the lens if you ever had to set it down.

i think that businesses like these are going to be those interested in tablets,

but just think of a current ibook that can rotate the screen and lay it down, with the ability to write on it.

i think there might be a market for that especially in education with the wireless carts.

walk into class grab a tablet and have all of your notes, and materials downloaded and indexed so you can spend more time listening.

Kid Red
Nov 14, 2002, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
[B]Most people can type far faster than they can write. Writing is too slow. Voice recognition makes more sense.


True, but on topic, this tablet PC from M$ won't replae anything. Voice recognition is cool, I have 2 Seimens phones that have GigVoice recognition, just speak the name and it dials the number. That would be more of a breakthrough then M$ handwriting recognition modeled after ink

daniel77
Nov 16, 2002, 05:23 PM
i dont know about u guys but i went to compusa yesterday to check out the tablet pc and besides trying to get used to the toshiba's pen and stuff it was pretty cool. i loved being able to write. and i my opinion if recognized about 98 percent of my writing, and i have horrible hand writing (read: doctors). it was pretty cool. i put it onto its side, and I wrote in attractive red letters at an angle
"this would actually be cool if it was made by apple." i also put an arrow in the direction of the apple aisle.
i liked the little feature on the toshiba on, in the tablets like notepad feature, that it comes with little lines like standard notebook feature. still would be hard to get used to since i hate having to hand write.
but overall still pretty cool although it would take a while for me to actually use it, instead of just writing little funny messages and faces. i give it an 8/10, they need to make it lighter.