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hi-fi-video
Aug 15, 2012, 05:48 AM
I'm at a loss here. I've been using Handbrake for a while now to create 1080p mp4 files from Blu-Ray rips. I use MakeMKV to create a mkv file, and then send it Handbrake to export to mp4. It's been working great so far, but things get ugly when I try and figure out a way to add subtitles to the mix. I don't need subtitles for every movie, but for those that have parts that are non-English, I'd like to be able to create forced subtitles.

I'm currently using Handbrake version 0.9.5. I have chosen not to upgrade to the latest version, because I found the "Target Size" feature very useful. I watch these files both on my MacBook Pro and PS3, so I've formatted my external hard-drive to FAT32 so I can use it on both devices. And as you know, you cannot transfer files over 4GB so that feature comes in handy to make sure I don't go over that limit. Now with MakeMKV, there is no option to burn the subtitles into the mkv file. Instead, it uses the PGS/SUP Format which my current version of Handbrake cannot read. I've tried supplying Handbrake with separate SRT files that I've downloaded from websites, but they don't always synch properly.

Any suggestions on how to obtain working subtitles to use with Handbrake based on my current approach? Or do I need to upgrade to the current version and learn some tricks on how to ensure I stay under a 4GB limit?



mic j
Aug 15, 2012, 08:38 AM
I'm at a loss here. I've been using Handbrake for a while now to create 1080p mp4 files from Blu-Ray rips. I use MakeMKV to create a mkv file, and then send it Handbrake to export to mp4. It's been working great so far, but things get ugly when I try and figure out a way to add subtitles to the mix. I don't need subtitles for every movie, but for those that have parts that are non-English, I'd like to be able to create forced subtitles.

I'm currently using Handbrake version 0.9.5. I have chosen not to upgrade to the latest version, because I found the "Target Size" feature very useful. I watch these files both on my MacBook Pro and PS3, so I've formatted my external hard-drive to FAT32 so I can use it on both devices. And as you know, you cannot transfer files over 4GB so that feature comes in handy to make sure I don't go over that limit. Now with MakeMKV, there is no option to burn the subtitles into the mkv file. Instead, it uses the PGS/SUP Format which my current version of Handbrake cannot read. I've tried supplying Handbrake with separate SRT files that I've downloaded from websites, but they don't always synch properly.

Any suggestions on how to obtain working subtitles to use with Handbrake based on my current approach? Or do I need to upgrade to the current version and learn some tricks on how to ensure I stay under a 4GB limit?
Move to the current version (actually a nightly version if you want PGS subtitles burned in). You are placing way to many unnecessary restrictions on yourself and that makes things more complicated than they need to be. Format the drive as NTFS and there is no file size limit.

You don't mention whether your Windows or Mac, assuming Mac, you can adjust the sync of an srt with Subler, quite easily. You can also adjust the srt sync with Handbrake, but of course, this means doing another transcode from the original. Not sure what's on the Windows side to do this but I am sure there is something.

hi-fi-video
Aug 15, 2012, 11:54 AM
Move to the current version (actually a nightly version if you want PGS subtitles burned in). You are placing way to many unnecessary restrictions on yourself and that makes things more complicated than they need to be. Format the drive as NTFS and there is no file size limit.

You don't mention whether your Windows or Mac, assuming Mac, you can adjust the sync of an srt with Subler, quite easily. You can also adjust the srt sync with Handbrake, but of course, this means doing another transcode from the original. Not sure what's on the Windows side to do this but I am sure there is something.

Alright, how do I format my hard-drive as NTFS? I'm running OS X 10.7.4. The only way I know how to format a hard-drive is through Disk Utility and I don't see that option there. Also, is a NTFS drive compatible with PS3?

While part of me wants to get past that 4GB limit, I do like keeping the file sizes smaller so I can fit more movies onto my hard-drive, it's already almost full. Let's say I wanted to go the more complicated route and continue ripping using this method. Do you know of any way to extract subtitles from a Blu-Ray into a file that my current version of Handbrake can recognize and use?

mic j
Aug 15, 2012, 12:24 PM
Wow! You want it all, don't you?:D

NTSF needs to be formatted on a PC, unfortunately, Mac's can only read NTSF not write to it (unless you buy software to give that capability). So if you need to transfer files from your Mac to the PS3, you will need to either stay with FAT or reformat and buy software. From what I have seen, there is also an option to wirelessly transfer files to the PS3, but this is not an area I have any expertise in.

Are you converting BR's? Most of my regular dvd's are around 1GB but BR's are a lot larger. You can still do a maximum file size in HB, I guess it takes some calculation and using Average Bit Rate instead of Constant Quality.

As for subtitles, sync can always be an issue. I download, add them to the mp4 and adjust sync (if necessary) using Subler. This method is very quick as you only have to Save the file not transcode it again. If you really really really want to do your own BR subtitles, I have recently written a procedure on how to do it in one the topics below. I have also written a procedure for how I sync subtitles using Subler. Look up my posts and you will find them.

adnbek
Aug 15, 2012, 12:39 PM
Don't format to NTFS. Your mac won't be able to write natively to the drive and the PS3 can't read NTFS at all, unless you are streaming from the drive through DLNA.

mic j
Aug 15, 2012, 01:41 PM
Don't format to NTFS. Your mac won't be able to write natively to the drive and the PS3 can't read NTFS at all, unless you are streaming from the drive through DLNA.

You're a scholar and a gentleman! And you are absolutely correct. Sorry for the incorrect info.

bluewooster
Aug 15, 2012, 01:41 PM
You can use exFAT. This allows file size greater than 4gb. You can also use the drive with Mac or PC for both read and write. Not sure if PS3 can read exFAT or not though.
Blue

HobeSoundDarryl
Aug 15, 2012, 01:45 PM
Suggestion: buy a new external drive already formatted for NTFS and use that for your Blu Ray media files. You can buy a lot of space for relatively cheap. Besides, you say that you are already running out of space with your <2GB MAX file size rips, so it sounds like you need more storage anyway.

If you want to maintain compatibility for PS3, keep the existing drive and dedicate it to your PS3.

Then, convert 2 versions of your movies: one without the 2GB cap (which is too small for quality BD rips anyway) and the other respecting the 2GB cap, probably scaling it down to 720p or maybe even 480p as part of keeping your files under 2GB. Store the former on your new NTFS drive and the latter on your current drive.

While I would convert both from the master file, since you are also chasing burned-in subtitles, you might consider converting your >2GB file with those subtitles, then converting THAT file into a second, <2GB version (again, maybe 720p at higher compression). Your >2GB master file is going to look much better than the <2GB version but this option seems to do all that you are trying to do.

Also, consider picking up an Apple TV for $99 ($85 refurbished). You may find that it covers the movie playback purpose of the PS3 such that you don't need those second copies anymore. If so, you could then repurpose your existing drive for something else (or just more storage). If this is a possibility, you might consider just doing it now and then ignoring the NTFS purchase and going with a Mac native formatted (big storage) external drive for your movies.

GoSUV
Aug 16, 2012, 03:22 AM
Handbrake does recognize PSG subtitles, but it is currently only limited to the nightly builds, not one of the "regular" releases readily available for downloads (e.g. the current 0.9.8).

With that, you can choose to "burn-in" the foreign subtitles, if you are always going to show them in the movie anyway. If you use any one of the iDevices for viewing your movies and there is no easy way to toggle subtitles or change audio tracks, burning them in makes sense. Burning in means the subtitles become part of the image and video, and can't be turned off.

When you rip your BD using MakeMKV, experiment which subtitle track(s) is the regular subtitle and which one is the forced foreign language subtitle in English. If in doubt, rip them all and play the .mkv file in VLC to make sure you have the correct one.

Finally, convert a test chapter in small resolution in Handbrake where you know the foreign language is spoken, and see if this is the result you desire. For example, for the movie Toy Story 3, in chapter 24 when Buzz Lightyear was reset to be Spanish-speaking, you can test if the forced English subtitles were burned-in correctly. The other characters' speech should not be subtitled (if this is what you want).

hi-fi-video
Aug 16, 2012, 08:21 AM
2GB is too small for quality BD rips anyway.

Well, I've actually been making 4GB rips and am quite happy with them. I know that a lot of people here have more sensitive eyes than I do, and quality is priority over saving space, but that's not me. With the settings I'm using, yes, I do occasionally notice some minuscule imperfections, but it's nothing that ruins watching movie for me. I've noticed it's about the same quality as a 1080p iTunes download. So I know my approach is not for everyone, most have moved on, but it's what I like... it's what works for me. The only thing that's causing problems for me is movies with subtitles.

You can choose to "burn-in" the foreign subtitles, if you are always going to show them in the movie anyway. If you use any one of the iDevices for viewing your movies and there is no easy way to toggle subtitles or change audio tracks, burning them in makes sense. Burning in means the subtitles become part of the image and video, and can't be turned off.

When you rip your BD using MakeMKV, experiment which subtitle track(s) is the regular subtitle and which one is the forced foreign language subtitle in English. If in doubt, rip them all and play the .mkv file in VLC to make sure you have the correct one.

I will be watching on other devices as well, so burning the subtitles into the rip using MakeMVK would solve my problems, but I'm not sure how to do that. If it is possible, could someone instruct me on how to do that?

If not, I will either look into how to create my own subtitles like mic j suggested or downloading SRT files from sites like opensubtitles.org and synch them later with Subler.

And you'll all have to forgive, I'm not extremely knowledgeable in this area, but why isn't there a program or approach to ripping subtitles straight from the Blu-Ray disk that you can use later in Handbrake along with the mkv file?

Jim.R
Aug 16, 2012, 08:47 AM
And you'll all have to forgive, I'm not extremely knowledgeable in this area, but why isn't there a program or approach to ripping subtitles straight from the Blu-Ray disk that you can use later in Handbrake along with the mkv file?

The issue is that the supplied DVD/BR subtitles are images laid over the movie images. MP4 doesn't support these as toggleable subtitles, only text based (ie. SRT) so you either need to burn in the subs from the disc (now supported in the latest Handbrake nightlies) or provide a textual version either by OCR-ing the ones on disc or downloading one from the 'net.

mic j
Aug 16, 2012, 09:03 AM
Well, I've actually been making 4GB rips and am quite happy with them. I know that a lot of people here have more sensitive eyes than I do, and quality is priority over saving space, but that's not me. With the settings I'm using, yes, I do occasionally notice some minuscule imperfections, but it's nothing that ruins watching movie for me. I've noticed it's about the same quality as a 1080p iTunes download. So I know my approach is not for everyone, most have moved on, but it's what I like... it's what works for me. The only thing that's causing problems for me is movies with subtitles.



I will be watching on other devices as well, so burning the subtitles into the rip using MakeMVK would solve my problems, but I'm not sure how to do that. If it is possible, could someone instruct me on how to do that?

If not, I will either look into how to create my own subtitles like mic j suggested or downloading SRT files from sites like opensubtitles.org and synch them later with Subler.

And you'll all have to forgive, I'm not extremely knowledgeable in this area, but why isn't there a program or approach to ripping subtitles straight from the Blu-Ray disk that you can use later in Handbrake along with the mkv file?
You really can't use MakeMKV to burn the subtitles into the rip, only make sure you included them and maybe figure out which one(s) you want to use. Handbrake can burn in the subtitles, but for BR you have to use a nightly build as this function is not in the current stable release version.

Here's some ideas as to why there are so few programs to do all this: 1) OCR of video overlays (VOBSUB & PGS) are notoriously inaccurate which means even after converting the overlays to text you have to proof every line of dialog. 2) Most movie's have srt files readily available for download (Thank someone for doing all the work to get them correct!!! and 3) Most people in the U.S. only care about forced sub's, which program's like HB, et. al., can handle by burning in the overlay (thus no errors to proof). Seems like a different situation rest-of-world though.

If you want to burn forced subtitles in using Handbrake 1) rip using MakeMKV and select the top level subtitle track in the language you want (that will include both forced and non-forced subs), 2) download a nightly build, 3) go to the subtitles tab and select Foreign Audio Search under the Track column, 4) make sure forced and burn-in are checked. Handbrake will scan the movie, locate the forced subs track, and finally, burn it in...all as part of the transcoding process. It works really nicely.

If you are wanting to do soft subs (be able to turn them on/off), I would recommend downloading and using Subler. If you can't find a download that works for you, then you can create your own. But it is a real process and not for the faint of heart. Interesting to learn though!;)

hi-fi-video
Aug 16, 2012, 10:17 AM
If you want to burn forced subtitles in using Handbrake 1) rip using MakeMKV and select the top level subtitle track in the language you want (that will include both forced and non-forced subs), 2) download a nightly build, 3) go to the subtitles tab and select Foreign Audio Search under the Track column, 4) make sure forced and burn-in are checked. Handbrake will scan the movie, locate the forced subs track, and finally, burn it in...all as part of the transcoding process. It works really nicely.

Alright, guess I should move over to the nightly build. Again, I want to create 4GB rips, not just because of the FAT32 limitation, but I also prefer to keep the sizes smaller so I can fit more movies onto one drive. Mic j, you said that, "You can still do a maximum file size in HB, I guess it takes some calculation and using Average Bit Rate instead of Constant Quality." What kind of settings do I need to use with the nightly build to make sure I stay at 4GB?

mic j
Aug 16, 2012, 11:01 AM
Alright, guess I should move over to the nightly build. Again, I want to create 4GB rips, not just because of the FAT32 limitation, but I also prefer to keep the sizes smaller so I can fit more movies onto one drive. Mic j, you said that, "You can still do a maximum file size in HB, I guess it takes some calculation and using Average Bit Rate instead of Constant Quality." What kind of settings do I need to use with the nightly build to make sure I stay at 4GB?

I would like to recommend you try varying the constant quality setting until you get to a file size/quality that is acceptable. After doing a few movies you will get a pretty good idea of where you need to be to achieve what you need. Constant Quality is the most sure way of getting good video quality as it uses higher bitrates on area's of the film that needs it and lowers the bitrate on areas of the film that don't need it.

If you absolutely want to do it by Target File Size, use this calculator (http://www.3ivx.com/support/calculator/index.html) to figure out what you need to set your average bit rate at.

If you really want to understand the whole issue try this: https://forum.handbrake.fr/search.php

Richdmoore
Aug 16, 2012, 12:01 PM
One thing to add is to play the Bluray on a player and see if it selects a subtitle track on it's own. Some movies have a separate track only for the foreign subtitles, and they are usually not marked as forced.

What I do is play the Bluray on my tv, and check the display menu on my player to see what audio, title, and subtitle is being automatically used. If it selects a subtitle automatically, I select that specific one in handbrake and burn that one in (forced only box unchecked). If it shows off for subtitle, I select the foreign audio search and burn in check box with the forced only checked.

Fasm Trout
Aug 19, 2012, 08:44 PM
If you want to burn forced subtitles in using Handbrake 1) rip using MakeMKV and select the top level subtitle track in the language you want (that will include both forced and non-forced subs), 2) download a nightly build, 3) go to the subtitles tab and select Foreign Audio Search under the Track column, 4) make sure forced and burn-in are checked. Handbrake will scan the movie, locate the forced subs track, and finally, burn it in...all as part of the transcoding process. It works really nicely.

Thanks for your instructions! I've been following them precicely but am having some difficulties... perhaps you (or someone) can offer some advice. I am on Windows 7 and I've tried two methods (a and b) - I'll try to be as detailed as possible:

(I'm trying Kill Bill Vol. 1 - it has certain scenes in Japanese for which I would like subtitles burned-into the video. Oh and I'm going from MKV to MP4)

1. Rip with MakeMKV.
I check/select the video track, the desired audio tracks, and
a) the top level english subtitles AND the forced track within
b) the top level english subtitles ONLY

Note: The output files are both identical in size, and VLC plays each with subtitles on at all times - not just the forced tracks. In each case, when making a subtitle selection in VLC there is only one track in addition to "Disable"

2. Download HandBrake nightly build

3. Subtitles tab > select Foreign Audio Search under the Track column

4. Check/select "Forced Only" and "Burn In"

Boom, that's, it, right? It should work! Except it doesn't. The resulting video plays fine, but there are no subtitles to be seen. In fact, just to be sure, I checked to see if maybe the subtitle track was something I had to toggle (not burned-in for some reason) but alas, nothing.

I've tried it differen't ways too. Check "Default" instead of "Burn In," use English PGS instead of Foreign Audio Search, etc. Nothing works.

I can't for the life of me figure it out. Forced subtitles are the bane of my existence! Please help :)

mic j
Aug 20, 2012, 10:55 AM
Thanks for your instructions! I've been following them precicely but am having some difficulties... perhaps you (or someone) can offer some advice. I am on Windows 7 and I've tried two methods (a and b) - I'll try to be as detailed as possible:

(I'm trying Kill Bill Vol. 1 - it has certain scenes in Japanese for which I would like subtitles burned-into the video. Oh and I'm going from MKV to MP4)

1. Rip with MakeMKV.
I check/select the video track, the desired audio tracks, and
a) the top level english subtitles AND the forced track within
b) the top level english subtitles ONLY

Note: The output files are both identical in size, and VLC plays each with subtitles on at all times - not just the forced tracks. In each case, when making a subtitle selection in VLC there is only one track in addition to "Disable"

2. Download HandBrake nightly build

3. Subtitles tab > select Foreign Audio Search under the Track column

4. Check/select "Forced Only" and "Burn In"

Boom, that's, it, right? It should work! Except it doesn't. The resulting video plays fine, but there are no subtitles to be seen. In fact, just to be sure, I checked to see if maybe the subtitle track was something I had to toggle (not burned-in for some reason) but alas, nothing.

I've tried it differen't ways too. Check "Default" instead of "Burn In," use English PGS instead of Foreign Audio Search, etc. Nothing works.

I can't for the life of me figure it out. Forced subtitles are the bane of my existence! Please help :)
I feel your pain! The Kill Bill's are sort of unique. They have the forced subtitles as separate tracks that can be selected. I only have the dvd not BR but I am pretty sure it is the same (per a forced subtitle spreadsheet at the AVS forum). I ripped the dvd to iso, which means all the subtitle tracks are present. There are 7 subtitle tracks. Track 1 and 2 seem identical to me and contain only the forced subs. Then, there are 4 CC tracks. The 7th track is a full subtitle containing both regular and non-english dialog.

So...if you can, I would suggest launching the movie from the disc and view using VLC. Go to the subtitles pull down and figure out which tracks are which. Then when you use MakeMKV, make sure you get those track included in the rip (check using VLC before going to HB). The important thing is, there are no forced subtitles. So don't choose that option. In handbrake you will not choose the forced subtitles check box but instead, choose the track that contains the non-english dialog and check, burn-in. Like I said, haven't actually done this with BR but that is the way I think it should work out.

Fasm Trout
Aug 20, 2012, 07:44 PM
I feel your pain! The Kill Bill's are sort of unique. They have the forced subtitles as separate tracks that can be selected. I only have the dvd not BR but I am pretty sure it is the same (per a forced subtitle spreadsheet at the AVS forum). I ripped the dvd to iso, which means all the subtitle tracks are present. There are 7 subtitle tracks. Track 1 and 2 seem identical to me and contain only the forced subs. Then, there are 4 CC tracks. The 7th track is a full subtitle containing both regular and non-english dialog.

So...if you can, I would suggest launching the movie from the disc and view using VLC. Go to the subtitles pull down and figure out which tracks are which. Then when you use MakeMKV, make sure you get those track included in the rip (check using VLC before going to HB). The important thing is, there are no forced subtitles. So don't choose that option. In handbrake you will not choose the forced subtitles check box but instead, choose the track that contains the non-english dialog and check, burn-in. Like I said, haven't actually done this with BR but that is the way I think it should work out.

Thanks so much for the reply I'll give it a shot and see how it goes. In the meantime, have you ever done a Blu-ray -> MKV -> Handbrake -> MP4 conversion, or have you only ever done that with DVDs? If you have successfully accomplished a subtitle burn-in with a Blu-ray, mind sharing (some of) the title(s) with me so that I can follow your instructions above (post 12 in this thread)?

I just want to make sure I'm not making any mistakes. I realize every movie out there is authored differently but if you and I each get the same results on the same movie, it will at least help me realize that I'm doing things properly.

Thanks again!

rayward
Aug 21, 2012, 09:35 AM
Thanks for your instructions! I've been following them precicely but am having some difficulties... perhaps you (or someone) can offer some advice. I am on Windows 7 and I've tried two methods (a and b) - I'll try to be as detailed as possible:

(I'm trying Kill Bill Vol. 1 - it has certain scenes in Japanese for which I would like subtitles burned-into the video. Oh and I'm going from MKV to MP4)

1. Rip with MakeMKV.
I check/select the video track, the desired audio tracks, and
a) the top level english subtitles AND the forced track within
b) the top level english subtitles ONLY

Note: The output files are both identical in size, and VLC plays each with subtitles on at all times - not just the forced tracks. In each case, when making a subtitle selection in VLC there is only one track in addition to "Disable"

2. Download HandBrake nightly build

3. Subtitles tab > select Foreign Audio Search under the Track column

4. Check/select "Forced Only" and "Burn In"

Boom, that's, it, right? It should work! Except it doesn't. The resulting video plays fine, but there are no subtitles to be seen. In fact, just to be sure, I checked to see if maybe the subtitle track was something I had to toggle (not burned-in for some reason) but alas, nothing.

I've tried it differen't ways too. Check "Default" instead of "Burn In," use English PGS instead of Foreign Audio Search, etc. Nothing works.

I can't for the life of me figure it out. Forced subtitles are the bane of my existence! Please help :)

I've had the same issue with "Taken"; HB doesn't recognise the non-English dialog. What I did was revert to the "old" methodology of burning in non-English subs:

1. Rip the movie and all English subtitle tracks with MakeMKV
2. Extract all the sub tracks with MKVTools (I'm on a Mac, and don't know if this is also for Windows or if you need another app to extract the tracks).
3. Using BDSup2Sub, review the tracks until you find the non-English only track - export it as a .sub file.
4. Merge the new subtitle track into your original .mkv movie rip - I use MKVMerge (again, this may be Mac only).
5. Set up your HB encode as normal, but on the Subtitle page, select your new .sub track in the drop down menu and check "Burned in" but do not check "Forced only".

That will give you the non-English subs only, in the original font/colour etc. It sounds like a lot, but each of the steps is relatively quick.

mic j
Aug 21, 2012, 10:17 AM
I've had the same issue with "Taken"; HB doesn't recognise the non-English dialog. What I did was revert to the "old" methodology of burning in non-English subs:

1. Rip the movie and all English subtitle tracks with MakeMKV
2. Extract all the sub tracks with MKVTools (I'm on a Mac, and don't know if this is also for Windows or if you need another app to extract the tracks).
3. Using BDSup2Sub, review the tracks until you find the non-English only track - export it as a .sub file.
4. Merge the new subtitle track into your original .mkv movie rip - I use MKVMerge (again, this may be Mac only).
5. Set up your HB encode as normal, but on the Subtitle page, select your new .sub track in the drop down menu and check "Burned in" but do not check "Forced only".

That will give you the non-English subs only, in the original font/colour etc. It sounds like a lot, but each of the steps is relatively quick.
If my understanding of how HB does the forced subs is correct, you need a forced flag on the forced subtitle track. Kill Bill does not have a track with a force flag, so HB will not pick it up if you do a Foreign Language Audio search. I suppose it's possible that Taken does not have a forced flag as well. If it did, I would expect HB to find it. Interesting.:confused:

dynaflash
Aug 21, 2012, 10:34 AM
If my understanding of how HB does the forced subs is correct, you need a forced flag on the forced subtitle track.
True, but with Foreign audio search hb will also do a preliminary scan for subs showing up 10% or less in the movie and then presume they are "forced".

https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/Subtitles

But it is correct that forced subs from source to source can be done many ways. So it can be a situation where you have to manually check in say ... dvdplayer to see which track is the forced track. Then choose that track in HB.

mic j
Aug 21, 2012, 10:46 AM
True, but with Foreign audio search hb will also do a preliminary scan for subs showing up 10% or less in the movie and then presume they are "forced".

https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/Subtitles

But it is correct that forced subs from source to source can be done many ways. So it can be a situation where you have to manually check in say ... dvdplayer to see which track is the forced track. Then choose that track in HB.
From my scrounging around, I ran across that the "forced" subtitle track for Taken is the english subtitle track and like Kill Bill has no force flag. So this would seem like 2 situations where the scan for 10% or less is not picking up the subtitles...or maybe they are 11%. Any volunteers to measure them?;)

mic j
Aug 21, 2012, 10:59 AM
Thanks so much for the reply – I'll give it a shot and see how it goes. In the meantime, have you ever done a Blu-ray -> MKV -> Handbrake -> MP4 conversion, or have you only ever done that with DVDs? If you have successfully accomplished a subtitle burn-in with a Blu-ray, mind sharing (some of) the title(s) with me so that I can follow your instructions above (post 12 in this thread)?

I just want to make sure I'm not making any mistakes. I realize every movie out there is authored differently but if you and I each get the same results on the same movie, it will at least help me realize that I'm doing things properly.

Thanks again!

I have not gotten a BR with forced subs since HB incorporated the PGS sub capability in the nightly's. I will look back through what I have and try it out on a chapter or 2...maybe Iron Man.

Update: I really don't have anything on hand to go in parallel with you. All the BR's I have on hand do not have forced subs. But don't worry, charge into it and it will be fine. There are a few out there that are know to be atypical: Kill Bill, Avatar, Taken. Here is a link to a list of movies with forced subs and some info about the nature of the forced subs: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=t8Xb85eyNFtZ3vaNK8gqkbQ&single=true&gid=0&output=html

rayward
Aug 21, 2012, 11:02 AM
But it is correct that forced subs from source to source can be done many ways. So it can be a situation where you have to manually check in say ... dvdplayer to see which track is the forced track. Then choose that track in HB.

When I had to go "old school" on Taken, I was not able to select any subtitle track in HB without extracting, converting to .sub and remuxing it into my .mkv.

Am I missing a trick?

Thanks

----------

From my scrounging around, I ran across that the "forced" subtitle track for Taken is the english subtitle track and like Kill Bill has no force flag. So this would seem like 2 situations where the scan for 10% or less is not picking up the subtitles...or maybe they are 11%. Any volunteers to measure them?;)

No way that the forced subs in Taken are more than 10%. It's literally a few lines; less even that the famous "I will find you" speech.

mic j
Aug 21, 2012, 11:45 AM
When I had to go "old school" on Taken, I was not able to select any subtitle track in HB without extracting, converting to .sub and remuxing it into my .mkv.

Am I missing a trick?

Thanks[COLOR="#808080"]

By chance, do you have the original that you could run Media Info on? Or, if you read on the link that Dynaflash provided, you can look at the Activity Window and see the "hits" the various tracks are getting. That would be fun.

Rmafive
Aug 22, 2012, 05:43 PM
I recently attempted converting a movie with the nightly version of handbrake and the resulting mp4 file does not seem to have any subtitles. I selected a few subtitle tracks I wanted and chose not to burn them in, in hopes that I could select the subtitle track I wanted. Yet, none of these tracks made it through to the final file. Is it possible to make the subtitles from a blu ray mkv selectable in an mp4 file, or do you have to burn them in? Really, I just want to be able to have the forced subtitles burned in, but I am afraid to use the foreign audio search and screw up a bunch of rips by burning in subtitles!

mic j
Aug 22, 2012, 06:27 PM
I recently attempted converting a movie with the nightly version of handbrake and the resulting mp4 file does not seem to have any subtitles. I selected a few subtitle tracks I wanted and chose not to burn them in, in hopes that I could select the subtitle track I wanted. Yet, none of these tracks made it through to the final file. Is it possible to make the subtitles from a blu ray mkv selectable in an mp4 file, or do you have to burn them in? Really, I just want to be able to have the forced subtitles burned in, but I am afraid to use the foreign audio search and screw up a bunch of rips by burning in subtitles!
To make them selectable, they have to be .srt files. That is, they have to be text files. The subtitles in regular dvd's and blu rays are image files. Think of it as one movie overlaid on another. The base movie is one image and the subtitle movie is a different image, sort of like a double exposure. This applies to regular and forced subtitles. You can use OCR to take these image files and convert them to text files, but that is process that I would only recommend in circumstances where you have to have soft subtitles and you can't find them anywhere else.

If you are ok with burning BR forced subtitles in the rip, I would recommend using the HB nightly, using Foreign Audio Search, forced, burn-in. At worst, it will not find your forced subtitles and do nothing.

Rmafive
Aug 22, 2012, 06:30 PM
To make them selectable, they have to be .srt files. That is, they have to be text files. The subtitles in regular dvd's and blu rays are image files. Think of it as one movie overlaid on another. The base movie is one image and the subtitle movie is a different image, sort of like a double exposure. This applies to regular and forced subtitles. You can use OCR to take these image files and convert them to text files, but that is process that I would only recommend in circumstances where you have to have soft subtitles and you can't find them anywhere else.

If you are ok with burning BR forced subtitles in the rip, I would recommend using the HB nightly, using Foreign Audio Search, forced, burn-in. At worst, it will not find your forced subtitles and do nothing.

I used the nightly build to convert the PGS subtitles for the mp4 file. I am assuming that this is an issue with the nightly build of handbrake and that the solution is to just use the burn-in option.

mic j
Aug 22, 2012, 06:41 PM
I used the nightly build to convert the PGS subtitles for the mp4 file. I am assuming that this is an issue with the nightly build of handbrake and that the solution is to just use the burn-in option.
Yes, you have to burn them in or you will get nothing.

Like I said, there are processes for "soft" subs, ones that you can turn on/off and if you search my posts on the forum you will find them. Good luck.

benh911f
Aug 23, 2012, 06:32 AM
I've read this thread, along with countless others, but I just can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong, and hope someone can help me out.
I'm trying to make a copy of Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol. When I put the disc through MakeMKV the first time, I checked only English forced subtitles:
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n309/benh911f/ScreenShot2012-08-23at72312AM.png

I checked the MKV under VLC, and saw no subtitles during the Russian language part of the movie, but decided to continue anyway.
I put this MKV through Handbrake, clicked foreign audio search under Subtitles, and did the conversion process. No subtitles came out in the result.

I then made another MKV, this time checking ALL English subtitle boxes:
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n309/benh911f/ScreenShot2012-08-23at72503AM-1.jpg

I saw all subtitles, English and Russian, in VLC. Put this through Handbrake the same as before, and got no forced subs during the Russian part.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, and hoping someone can walk me through the process to get it right.

Thanks

rayward
Aug 23, 2012, 08:16 AM
Ben,

I recently ripped Ghost Protocol using the latest official build of HB (not a nightly). I selected "foreign bitmap search" on the subtitle page, and got all the non-English dialog subtitles burned in on the resulting file.

There are some movies that this feature misses (as discussed above), but MIGP is not one of them.

benh911f
Aug 23, 2012, 08:27 AM
I did the same thing, so I'm wondering what I did differently from you?

mic j
Aug 23, 2012, 08:47 AM
I did the same thing, so I'm wondering what I did differently from you?
I would recommend checking the highest level of english subtitles and not checking forced. Then take it to VLC to make sure you have the forced subs and what track they are (there may or may not be multiple subtitle tracks). After that, select the foreign audio search in HB (regular build for dvd/nightly build for BR).

The problem is that foreign language subtitles are handled in different ways by different movies. Some are imbedded and use a force flag to turn on/off the subtitle track (these are true forced subs), others have a separate track (not actually forced), etc. That's why forced subs are always so problematic. So the best thing is to provide ALL subtitles to HB and let it see if it can find the forced sub. If it can't find them, then it may be necessary to isolate the particular subtitle track from the original, eliminate other subtitles and remux the foreign language track back in. The send it to HB, select the track and burn it in.

Everyone hates forced subs. They can take some work. Sometimes it's just easier to find an srt online and mux it in using something like Subler.

Update: Thought you might be interested in this link about MI: Ghost Protocol forced subs: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1176923/movies-with-forced-subtitles/420

rayward
Aug 23, 2012, 09:36 AM
I would recommend checking the highest level of english subtitles and not checking forced. Then take it to VLC to make sure you have the forced subs and what track they are (there may or may not be multiple subtitle tracks). After that, select the foreign audio search in HB (regular build for dvd/nightly build for BR).

I think this is it. I have elected English as my default language in MakeMKV, so it deselects everything but English audio and subtitle tracks automatically. It selects both the main and forced subtitle tracks, and I leave all this well alone.

Quite often, the "forced" subtitle track is actually an alternative English track of its own, and not a sub-set of the main track. It's best to select all English subs, and let HB sort 'em out.

mic j
Aug 23, 2012, 09:40 AM
I think this is it. I have elected English as my default language in MakeMKV, so it deselects everything but English audio and subtitle tracks automatically. It selects both the main and forced subtitle tracks, and I leave all this well alone.

Quite often, the "forced" subtitle track is actually an alternative English track of its own, and not a sub-set of the main track. It's best to select all English subs, and let HB sort 'em out.
I would like to give Dynaflash credit for that approach. IIRC, he provided that "hint" somewhere in this forum.

benh911f
Aug 23, 2012, 10:42 AM
Thanks for the help guys. If you look at my second screen capture though, don't I have selected what you guys said? Not just the English forced subs, but all English subs.

rayward
Aug 23, 2012, 11:14 AM
Thanks for the help guys. If you look at my second screen capture though, don't I have selected what you guys said? Not just the English forced subs, but all English subs.

I bet if you scroll down, there's additional English subtitle tracks - one of those will be the non-English dialog so make sure to always select all English subtitle tracks, main and forced.

benh911f
Aug 24, 2012, 06:11 AM
I bet if you scroll down, there's additional English subtitle tracks - one of those will be the non-English dialog so make sure to always select all English subtitle tracks, main and forced.

There were extra English tracks I missed. I checked them, threw it through Handrake, and still nothing?

Could you give me a step-by-step of your workflow with Mission Impossible so I can see where I'm going wrong?

rayward
Aug 24, 2012, 09:12 AM
There were extra English tracks I missed. I checked them, threw it through Handrake, and still nothing?

Could you give me a step-by-step of your workflow with Mission Impossible so I can see where I'm going wrong?

Not much of a workflow. I ripped with MakeMKV, making sure that every English subtitle track was checked (forced and unforced). Then I loaded the rip into HB, using the ATV3 preset, I added the foreign bitmap search on the subtitle screen, checked Web Optimise, then encoded away.

MI:GP has some very complicated subs. Some start out in Russian and then fade into English. Some switch back and forth between italics and regular font (as the scene switches from one end of a phone call to the other). They were all there using the above process. I have no idea why you are getting a different result.

slothrob
Aug 24, 2012, 06:47 PM
Not much of a workflow. I ripped with MakeMKV, making sure that every English subtitle track was checked (forced and unforced). Then I loaded the rip into HB, using the ATV3 preset, I added the foreign bitmap search on the subtitle screen, checked Web Optimise, then encoded away.
I have failed to do that one step before, as it often gets left out of instructions. You won't get the subtitles if you check the boxes but don't "Add" the track.

benh911f
Aug 25, 2012, 12:45 PM
I have failed to do that one step before, as it often gets left out of instructions. You won't get the subtitles if you check the boxes but don't "Add" the track.

Am I doing something wrong here? Do I need to do anything additional to add them? Sorry for all the questions, but it's really annoying when I'm seemingly doing everything right.
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n309/benh911f/ScreenShot2012-08-25at14203PM.png

mic j
Aug 25, 2012, 01:10 PM
Am I doing something wrong here? Do I need to do anything additional to add them? Sorry for all the questions, but it's really annoying when I'm seemingly doing everything right.
Image (http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n309/benh911f/ScreenShot2012-08-25at14203PM.png)
Have you taken your mkv, that you are bringing to HB, and play it in VLC to make sure the forced subs play as expected?

benh911f
Aug 25, 2012, 01:41 PM
Yes, and they did play. The first time I ripped it through MakeMKV, I checked only to have the forced subs. When I put that through VLC, they didn't appear. The second time, when I selected ALL English subs, they did play in VLC.

mic j
Aug 25, 2012, 01:51 PM
Yes, and they did play. The first time I ripped it through MakeMKV, I checked only to have the forced subs. When I put that through VLC, they didn't appear. The second time, when I selected ALL English subs, they did play in VLC.
Is it Blu ray? Is it US or other?

Try this:
Open it in VLC, go to a spot in the movie that has foreign language subtitles, when you see them, go to the subtitles tab pulldown in VLC and make a note of which subtitle track # is checked. Now load it into HB, go to the subtitle tab and choose the track # that you noted was checked in VLC. Run. (If you know exactly what chapter this occurs in, you can just run on that chapter to check)

benh911f
Aug 25, 2012, 01:52 PM
Yes, it's a US Blu-Ray.

mic j
Aug 25, 2012, 02:10 PM
Yes, it's a US Blu-Ray.

I forgot to mention, that after you select the track in HB, check burn-in (do not check "forced").

slothrob
Aug 25, 2012, 03:32 PM
Am I doing something wrong here? Do I need to do anything additional to add them? Sorry for all the questions, but it's really annoying when I'm seemingly doing everything right.
That looks right to me, (not for what mic J is saying to try, but for a normal situation) but I'm not used to the Mac version. The Windows version requires you to click a button labeled "Add" to include a subtitle. It doesn't appear that the Mac version requires that step.

mic j
Aug 25, 2012, 03:45 PM
That looks right to me, (not for what mic J is saying to try, but for a normal situation) but I'm not used to the Mac version. The Windows version requires you to click a button labeled "Add" to include a subtitle. It doesn't appear that the Mac version requires that step.
Yeah, no add button on the Mac. I think he is doing things ok in HB. From what I have looked into, this BR has the "forced" subs in a separate track and often, when doing it that way, there is no "force" flag, so HB won't see it that way. HB has a second way to test for forced subs. It looks for a track that has <10% hits vs the other tracks (or something like that, not totally sure of the mechanism), but if you have any hits over that, it will ignore the track. Sometimes with these types of subtitles, it's just easier to locate the track yourself and tell HB what to do with it.

benh911f
Aug 25, 2012, 05:06 PM
I forgot to mention, that after you select the track in HB, check burn-in (do not check "forced").

Since I set MakeMKV to include all English subs though, won't not selecting forced in HB cause HB to include all subs?

mic j
Aug 25, 2012, 05:25 PM
Since I set MakeMKV to include all English subs though, won't not selecting forced in HB cause HB to include all subs?

Not if you select the track manually. The way it sounds like you have your mkv ripped, when you click on the track window in HB you should see multiple VOBSUB tracks: none, 0, 1, 2 etc. Select the one the was being used by VLC to display the "forced" subtitles (although they are not really "forced" if there is no forced flag). If you select forced it will only burn in a track that has a forced flag. I don't think your's does and that's why HB is not picking it up. I've seen this occur before.

benh911f
Aug 25, 2012, 05:47 PM
Thank you all so much for the help. I think I finally got it.

JMEANS
Jan 15, 2013, 07:39 AM
Did a search for "how to do subs" and found this HUGELY helpfull thread! I do however want to review what I got out if it just to be sure about one thing!

1.) Check all top English Sub tracks ( including Forced ) in MakeMKV

2.) Review the Sub tracks in VLC to determine which one you want!

3.) In Handbreak in Sub tab (Foriegn Audio Search) select the Sub track you reviewed in VLC then test check with Forced tab first, if nothing check Burn-In tab.

4.) now my question... Are the HB steps above only doable in the Nightbuild OR can the current HB version accomplish this as well?

Thanks Jim

mic j
Jan 15, 2013, 08:29 AM
Did a search for "how to do subs" and found this HUGELY helpfull thread! I do however want to review what I got out if it just to be sure about one thing!

1.) Check all top English Sub tracks ( including Forced ) in MakeMKV

2.) Review the Sub tracks in VLC to determine which one you want!

3.) In Handbreak in Sub tab (Foriegn Audio Search) select the Sub track you reviewed in VLC then test check with Forced tab first, if nothing check Burn-In tab.

4.) now my question... Are the HB steps above only doable in the Nightbuild OR can the current HB version accomplish this as well?

Thanks Jim
All steps doable with current release, as long as you are doing dvd's. If you are doing BR, you need the nightly.

JMEANS
Jan 15, 2013, 08:40 AM
Thanks and crap : (

Tried searching what I nightly was 'is' and a million things came up?!

What exactly is A nughtly build? Another version of Handbreak ... Always confusing and have avoided the topic.

A link of clarification would be great if you could direct me man.

Thanks again Jim

mic j
Jan 15, 2013, 08:48 AM
Thanks and crap : (

Tried searching what I nightly was 'is' and a million things came up?!

What exactly is A nughtly build? Another version of Handbreak ... Always confusing and have avoided the topic.

A link of clarification would be great if you could direct me man.

Thanks again Jim

https://build.handbrake.fr/view/Nightlies/

You can find the link at the Handbrake Forum, General tab.

A nightly is a non-stable version of HB. Each night, HB is re-built incorporating changes that the developer community has approved. Some night's there are not changes, some nights there are. So think of it as a beta. With that said, the Nightly HB version functions very well. Yes, sometimes there is a bug that needs correcting but they are usually small bugs. I use the Nightly all the time without issue.

JMEANS
Jan 15, 2013, 09:14 AM
Thank you for the clarification Mic J, only 2 questions after visiting link and I am good.

Looks like there are different nightly builds (versions) listed? or is it just one that is updated with changes?

Also do you have both the current and the Beta installed at the same time? Then choose which to use whatever the case may be?

Thanks So SO MUCH again man! I have learned a lot from you on here : ) your like my Yoda dude lol
JIM

mic j
Jan 15, 2013, 09:41 AM
Thank you for the clarification Mic J, only 2 questions after visiting link and I am good.

Looks like there are different nightly builds (versions) listed? or is it just one that is updated with changes?

Also do you have both the current and the Beta installed at the same time? Then choose which to use whatever the case may be?

Thanks So SO MUCH again man! I have learned a lot from you on here : ) your like my Yoda dude lol
JIM
You embarrass me. :o And Dynaflash is my Yoda dude, so take anything he posts very seriously.

There are multiple versions for multiple platforms PC, Mac, Fedora, etc. So pick the one that matches what you use. You can have both the released version and the Nightly version at the same time. You can use the released version for dvd's and the Nightly for BR's. But, if the Nightly is working well for you, you can just use it for everything. In another post here, Dynaflash indicated that the Nightly also has some video quality improvements over the released version. So there are also may be reasons to use it over just the fact that it handles PGS subtitles.

dynaflash
Jan 15, 2013, 09:43 AM
I would suggest sticking with the nightly once you start. If you go back to using 0.9.8 you would want to manually trigger a built in preset update as the nightly like does use different preset code. Going up (newer) they are automatically updated but regressing back you'd want to probably stick with it.

Each nightly generated by the build server replaces the one from the day before. In some ways they are more stable than 0.9.8.

If you start using nightlies you might want to check the Trac Timeline to see what the latest changes are https://trac.handbrake.fr/timeline

mic j
Jan 15, 2013, 09:45 AM
I would suggest sticking with the nightly once you start. If you go back to using 0.9.8 you would want to manually trigger a built in preset update as the nightly like does use different preset code. Going up (newer) they are automatically updated but regressing back you'd want to probably stick with it.

Each nightly generated by the build server replaces the one from the day before. In some ways they are more stable than 0.9.8.

If you start using nightlies you might want to check the Trac Timeline to see what the latest changes are https://trac.handbrake.fr/timeline
Thanks for that info. Learned something new.

JMEANS
Jan 15, 2013, 09:57 AM
Awesome guys - Very pumped now to give this all a whirl.

First attempt will be the original 'LET THE RIGHT ONE IN' want to keep the original soundtrack of the film but have English subs! Been trying awhile now without success, so I am sure the nightly will work it all out!

Again can't thank ya's enough! JIM


UPDATE : UPDATE : UPDATE:

My first SUBTITLE rip was a success with the NIGHTLY!! Love the new HB and won't be looking back! Thanks DYNAFLASH & MIC J again and again for everything today!!!

ghostriver
Jan 15, 2013, 03:49 PM
Hi I am quite lost sorry

So can someone clear it up for me with what I have to do. I have two European
region 2 movies on DVD I want to rip with Handbrake, the reason to this is because I cannot play the dvds normally on my Macbook Pro because it's a region 1.

So when I use Handbrake my concern is do I have to play the movie while ripping it? (it's impossible since the regions code are different)

and as for the subtitles, I see about using nightly. But I am confused, may someone please clear this up for me?:confused:

Will it be easy for me to rip these dvds off?

I am completely new to this. Please help.

rayward
Jan 16, 2013, 08:31 AM
Hi I am quite lost sorry

So can someone clear it up for me with what I have to do. I have two European
region 2 movies on DVD I want to rip with Handbrake, the reason to this is because I cannot play the dvds normally on my Macbook Pro because it's a region 1.

So when I use Handbrake my concern is do I have to play the movie while ripping it? (it's impossible since the regions code are different)

and as for the subtitles, I see about using nightly. But I am confused, may someone please clear this up for me?:confused:

Will it be easy for me to rip these dvds off?

I am completely new to this. Please help.


I've had the same regional coding issue (in reverse). When you insert the DVD, your Mac will prompt you to change your regional coding (don't do that) or cancel, which will eject the disk. What you need to do is ignore the prompt and open the disk in Handbrake. It will be able to copy/convert the movie just fine.

As for subtitles, the bulk of this thread is about getting subtitles off Blu Ray. For DVD I believe your only option is to add the appropriate .srt file, which can be downloaded (for free) off a simple web search, and added to your movie either by Handbrake during conversion or Subler post-conversion.

There are tons of threads in here a bout both those topics, so have a look around. :)

JMEANS
Jan 16, 2013, 02:19 PM
I would suggest sticking with the nightly once you start. If you go back to using 0.9.8 you would want to manually trigger a built in preset update as the nightly like does use different preset code. Going up (newer) they are automatically updated but regressing back you'd want to probably stick with it.

Each nightly generated by the build server replaces the one from the day before. In some ways they are more stable than 0.9.8.

If you start using nightlies you might want to check the Trac Timeline to see what the latest changes are https://trac.handbrake.fr/timeline

Hey DynaFlash just a quick ?
with the ATV3 preset I noticed the DECOMB is checked is that neccesary for Bluray MKV's? I thought i read on here awhile back that only DVD need use the DEINTERLACE & DECOMB checked. Thanks JIM

dynaflash
Jan 16, 2013, 02:41 PM
Hey DynaFlash just a quick ?
with the ATV3 preset I noticed the DECOMB is checked is that neccesary for Bluray MKV's? I thought i read on here awhile back that only DVD need use the DEINTERLACE & DECOMB checked. Thanks JIM
Yeah its checked and no you probably do not need it *however* it uses decomb - fast which on progressive ( typical blu ray) sources has no speed hit, so there is no reason not to have it enabled just in case ( I have it on for all of mine ) The only reason it would slow down the encode is if it detects combing on a frame in which case it will either deinterlace or blend which you would want anyway. Go ahead and leave it checked. There is no downside.

JMEANS
Jan 16, 2013, 04:34 PM
Awesome & Awesome!! Dynaflash I Will let it be then! Thanks again man for the info! JIM

dynaflash
Jan 16, 2013, 05:21 PM
Awesome & Awesome!! Dynaflash I Will let it be then! Thanks again man for the info! JIM

Np. The preset was written that way for a reason. ;)

dynaflash
Jan 16, 2013, 08:12 PM
Np. The preset was written that way for a reason. ;)

Now that also said let me answer the inevitable question: " Why do the rest of the presets not include decomb ?"

Answer: Because for a very long time HB devs were split on if decomb was accurate enough. It is. Plus since its inception (by jbrjake) it had a speed hit on progressive sources however, in recent months that has been optimized to the point where on progressive (non interlaced content

Menneisyys2
Jan 18, 2013, 01:38 PM
I use the Nightly all the time without issue.

Me too - have been using nightlies alongside the official one. Haven't run into either bugs or vastly increased performance - they both converted my BR videos equally reliably and quickly.

JMEANS
Jan 22, 2013, 07:33 AM
Me too - have been using nightlies alongside the official one. Haven't run into either bugs or vastly increased performance - they both converted my BR videos equally reliably and quickly.

I concur to that!! Subs option is fantastic, can't praise it enough!
Now with the regular HB I always used the HIGH PROFILE preset for my MKV's but decided to give the APPLE TV3 preset a try in the nightly even though I drive an ATV2 and files look and work great!

I did however want to ask what the difference was suppose to be between the two presets in the nightly? Finding it hard to distinguish one? Thanks JIM