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gaomay
Nov 13, 2002, 07:12 AM
Given that the Mac is placed as a graphics workstation it seems strange to me that Nvidia's workstation graphics cards are not available for the Power Mac. The new Quadro4 980XGL looks to be a beast!
Does anyone have any info on if/when these will be available for our platform?

MacCoaster
Nov 13, 2002, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by gaomay
Given that the Mac is placed as a graphics workstation it seems strange to me that Nvidia's workstation graphics cards are not available for the Power Mac. The new Quadro4 980XGL looks to be a beast!
Does anyone have any info on if/when these will be available for our platform?
Probably never. Quadro4 980XGL is 8x AGP.

Apple is never ahead/concurrent with AGP, they're usually one generation behind.

This is the same reason why the ATI 9700 (IIRC, please correct me if I'm wrong) and the upcoming Nvidia NV30 chipset (twice as fast as GF4Ti4600 I've heard) won't run on current Macs with 4x. 8x AGP requires much more power supplied to them.

MacBandit
Nov 13, 2002, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by MacCoaster

Probably never. Quadro4 980XGL is 8x AGP.

Apple is never ahead/concurrent with AGP, they're usually one generation behind.

This is the same reason why the ATI 9700 (IIRC, please correct me if I'm wrong) and the upcoming Nvidia NV30 chipset (twice as fast as GF4Ti4600 I've heard) won't run on current Macs with 4x. 8x AGP requires much more power supplied to them.

Ahem excuse me?! 8x AGP cards are all backwards compatible to 4x AGP.

MacCoaster
Nov 13, 2002, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Ahem excuse me?! 8x AGP cards are all backwards compatible to 4x AGP.
Not all of them. NV30's most certainly won't run on 4x.

MacBandit
Nov 13, 2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by MacCoaster

Not all of them. NV30's most certainly won't run on 4x.

Why is that and how do you know that? As I understood it 8x AGP as a standard was fully backwards compatible with 4x AGP slots. If it needs more power they will give it an external power connector like some cards have had in the past.

solvs
Nov 13, 2002, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by MacCoaster

Not all of them. NV30's most certainly won't run on 4x.

I'm gonna have to agree with MacBandit here. How many people in the PC world even have AGP 8x slots? The ATI 9700 is 4x/8x.

MacBandit
Nov 13, 2002, 08:10 PM
Here's a link to a 2.2MB PDF (http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/2188/SUPP/AGP8X_92502v1.pdf) from NVidia themselves that reafirms all that I have said. What you need to read is on page 5 under the bold title, "Compatibility".

It basically says that all NVidia cards that are 8x AGP will be backwards compatible all the way to 2x AGP. I believe this is the standard for AGP 3.0 which is what AGP 8x is.

MacCoaster
Nov 13, 2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Here's a link to a 2.2MB PDF (http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/2188/SUPP/AGP8X_92502v1.pdf) from NVidia themselves that reafirms all that I have said. What you need to read is on page 5 under the bold title, "Compatibility".

It basically says that all NVidia cards that are 8x AGP will be backwards compatible all the way to 2x AGP. I believe this is the standard for AGP 3.0 which is what AGP 8x is.
Erm... I stand corrected, but I think I was thinking at *full speed*.

MacBandit
Nov 13, 2002, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by MacCoaster

Erm... I stand corrected, but I think I was thinking at *full speed*.

Well I may be wrong but I believe I'm correct in thinking that an ATI9700 card which is 8xAGP rarely floods a 4xAGP bus. The new NV30 will be on par or just slightly faster then the ATI9700 so in my oppinion the 8xAGP is just overkill at the moement.

As stated by www.anandtech.com

The 2nd with AGP 8X

The first stage in the 3D pipeline is the most obvious, sending commands and data to be executed on the graphics chip. This function is initiated by the software running on the host CPU, sent over the AGP bus and finally reaching the graphics processor, which is contacted using the graphics drivers.

The R300 improves on previous chips by implementing an AGP 8X interface between the GPU and the North Bridge of your motherboardís chipset. As youíll remember from our P4X333 Review, the AGP 8X specification (AGP 3.0) runs at 66MHz and transfers data eight times per clock cycle. The 32-bit wide AGP bus when running in 8X mode results in a total of 2.1GB/s of bandwidth between the R300 and your PCís North Bridge.

Although we have yet to see scenarios where even AGP 4X is absolutely necessary, it does make sense to continue to increase the amount of available AGP bandwidth. The R300 is backwards compatible with AGP 4X for use with most present-day systems.

The GeForce4 and all competing solutions currently employ AGP 4X interfaces but by the end of this year you can expect to see updated versions of most major cards with AGP 8X support. ATI canít claim the title of first with AGP 8X since SiS pulled that off with the Xabre, but claiming AGP 8X support at this point doesnít really exude a performance advantage.

Here is the direct link to the www.anandtech.com (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1656) article that I got this from.

macphisto
Nov 13, 2002, 08:46 PM
But remember that here on MR, was a rumor about Apple and nVidia working on something. As far as chipsets, cpu, and gpus, it was not for sure, but I would not put it past Apple to have something up their sleeves.

MacBandit
Nov 13, 2002, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by macphisto
But remember that here on MR, was a rumor about Apple and nVidia working on something. As far as chipsets, cpu, and gpus, it was not for sure, but I would not put it past Apple to have something up their sleeves.

That will most likely be an integrated system bus, ATA Bus and on board GPU. This will allow all Quartz Extreme rendering to be done on the system without the support of th Video Card.

MacCoaster
Nov 13, 2002, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Well I may be wrong but I believe I'm correct in thinking that an ATI9700 card which is 8xAGP rarely floods a 4xAGP bus. The new NV30 will be on par or just slightly faster then the ATI9700 so in my oppinion the 8xAGP is just overkill at the moement.
From what I heard, the NV30 is about TWICE as fast as the current Nvidia offerings.

I'm still waiting for those 3DMarks benchmarkes. :D

MacBandit
Nov 13, 2002, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by MacCoaster

From what I heard, the NV30 is about TWICE as fast as the current Nvidia offerings.

I'm still waiting for those 3DMarks benchmarkes. :D

Exactly and the ATI9700 is about twice as fast as all the current NVidia offerings.

MacCoaster
Nov 13, 2002, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Exactly and the ATI9700 is about twice as fast as all the current NVidia offerings.
So, ~100 to 200 fps in Doom III/UT2003/whatever @ 1600x1200?

gambit
Nov 14, 2002, 12:19 AM
Has anyone seen a pic? I think it would be size and heat...
look in the archives for a review... www.cgchannel.com

ddtlm
Nov 14, 2002, 01:53 AM
Hate to break it to you all, but Quadros are essentially identical to GeForce cards of the same time period. Basically the same chip, treaked drivers, nothing to see here. Move along.