Apple Developing More In-House Tech? [Archive]

MacRumors

Aug 8, 2005, 02:18 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Appleinsider reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1224) that Apple is planning on personally developing more individual components used in its iPod product line.

In working to develop some of its own component solutions -- rather than continue to license them from others -- Apple hopes to gain more control over the iPod and shave costs at the same time. These costs saving measures are likely to be reflected in slightly higher margins for Apple and lower iPod costs for the end consumer.

Appleinsider points to the iPod scroll wheel as one component which will be developed by Apple in-house. Of note, Apple also moved towards its own track-pad technology in the Powerbook and iBook lines.

Apple is reportedly planning on offering user-replacable batteries in an upcoming iPod line.

Historically, Apple had a similar approach to in-house development of technologies for the Macintosh product line. However, in recent years, Apple has moved away from such an approach and has incorporated standard PC components and technologies into the Mac line. Whether the economics/scale for the iPod line is fundamentally different remains to be seen.

LaMerVipere

Aug 8, 2005, 02:20 PM

What's the real gain here? Was there something Synaptics wasn't giving them that Apple really felt they needed?

Then there's the problem if malfunctioning. We all remember the trackpad woes when Apple first debuted their trackpad design on powerbooks. It would suck to have the same situation repeated as the 5th generation iPod rolls out the door to thunderous applause, and lots of eager first adopters.

Apple just loves to kick around the third parties. *sigh*

narco

Aug 8, 2005, 02:27 PM

macnews

Aug 8, 2005, 02:32 PM

potential problems exist no matter who you go with. Also, unlike a pc these are components that are not likely to be user replaced (i.e. a graphics card or ram). Plus, the components Apple may need to really put out a better iPod may not exist as they really need it. Thus, making their own in house solution would be better than just rolling out iPods with bigger hard drives. Honestly, what new features would be revolutionary? Perhaps video, but others like FM radio, voice recorder are nothing new as they are done by third party people.

I say build the next great idea in house if that means cheaper prices. And Apple isn't really known for poor quality products. Yes, they have had some major mistakes but in general have better quality control.

michaelrjohnson

Aug 8, 2005, 02:34 PM

Interesting. I suppose this gives them more direct control over innovation on the iPod line, which I think is a good thing. It gives them an opportunity to innovate faster, to stay ahead of the competition.

Also, it would seem to be more of a supplier shift than a supplier 'boot'. So Apple is going to bring some iPod tech design in-house, but they're not going to use IBM as a contractor to fabricate G5s. (Assuming Apple uses a non-customized Intel processor) Maybe it's a wash?

nagromme

Aug 8, 2005, 02:35 PM

You can't say Apple should ALWAYS outsource everything, nor ALWAYS make their own.

They should do what makes sense in each case. Outsourcing to get the iPod into the market quickly made sense. But maybe now they can make their own for lower cost, or alternative/innovative features/designs, or even both. What's wrong with that?

Just because Apple placed big profitable orders from a company in the past doesn't commit them to using that company forever even when it no longer makes sense. And Synaptic was not deceived about that--they've been warning their investors of this risk for some time.

And you also can't say that Apple's own designs fail while outsourced components are reliable. I have no numbers, but my impression is the opposite. Problems with Apple products are very OFTEN failures of outsourced components. I see no reason to avoid an Apple product just because Apple moved more of it in-house. If anything, that lets them take more risks and innovate. Some of those little detail risks don't turn out well (yo-yo power adapter?), but thank goodness there's a company that will take them.

_bnkr612

Aug 8, 2005, 02:37 PM

All I hear is "lower cost for the consumer."
Let's just hope they come out with an 80 or 100 GB iPod soon, I already filled my 60GB and I am going crazy trying to figure out what songs I don't want on my iPod. I HAVE to have everything otherwise I go completely nuts!

Fishes,
narco.

So how did you fit all your music on a CD player before iPods were around. I am sure you can find a way to put music you actually listen to on your 60. Unless you are going around the world so many times you need 15,000 songs to only listen to each one with out repeating.

I am starting to think your house might have large stacks of magazines and newspapers.

Hmm...

Aeronautical

Aug 8, 2005, 02:40 PM

Apple are shifting so many ipods (and will continue to do so I think) that any saving (even a small one) on component production costs will multiply into something like a sizeable (if not huge) additional profit. Whether development costs will spiral if Apple goes down this line remains to be seen, but I think that the ipod is so key now that they will put everything into it's success, especially if the more of the reward finds it's way back to Apple.

Bonte

Aug 8, 2005, 03:01 PM

This system of proprietary materials have failed in the world of computers but is perfect for consumer goods that has to do just one thing but do it good.

swissmann

Aug 8, 2005, 03:12 PM

I can't prove it really but it seems like the more they outsourced their Macs the lower quality dropped. My old LC still runs great but more recent iMacs have died in much less time. I've also had a number of new computers need repairs immediately. Still quality is relatively very good and repair under warranty is relatively painless with a few Apple Retailers in town. But improved quality and lower cost is always a good step forward.

w_parietti22

Aug 8, 2005, 03:13 PM

So basically better quality iPod products to come from Apple instead of a 3rd party... sounds good to me.

LaMerVipere

Aug 8, 2005, 03:17 PM

So basically better quality iPod products to come from Apple instead of a 3rd party... sounds good to me.

Who says it's going to be better quality?

thejadedmonkey

Aug 8, 2005, 03:31 PM

OMG OMG OMG User replacable batteries???? I think hell just froze over..I mean, honestly...pigs were flying when they released the 3 button mouse, but Ahhhh!!! OMG OMG OMG!!! This would be a good excuse to upgrade my ipod...as of now the battery only lasts...5 monutes? i think. I just ordered a new one off ebay, but damn...that would be sweet.

I dont much care about the rest of the post.

w_parietti22

Aug 8, 2005, 03:31 PM

Who says it's going to be better quality?

Nobody... Im just assuming that it would be. If Apple is both designing and creating the products for the iPod it will be up to Apple's standards instead of the 3rd parties.

JustAnotherLogI

Aug 8, 2005, 03:34 PM

The choice of the word component is a bit misleading. Apple Insider is talking mostly about scroll wheel and track pad assemblies which have been used in iPods and laptops. It is no surprised that if Apple wants to innovate that they will need to design their own interface assemblies rather than purchased them off the shelf. Clearly the Mighty Mouse, as seen in these photos (http://www.psocdeveloper.com/static/apple_mighty_mouse/index4.html), and Keyboards are not re-branded inputs devices so why should scroll wheel and trackpads?

I believe this rumor first surfaced (http://www.psocdeveloper.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=591) in February of this year too. Maybe it is surfacing again because actual product announcements are nearing.

michaelrjohnson

Aug 8, 2005, 04:01 PM

...
You knew about NewerTech's iPod replacement batteries (http://newertech.com/ipod) didn't you?

elook

Aug 8, 2005, 04:20 PM

michaelrjohnson

Aug 8, 2005, 04:24 PM

"User replaceable" meaning that a user can easily replace it, as opposed to using a putty knife and directions found on a mac weblog. Think an iBook style slip in and lock battery or something similar.
No, I understand. thejadedmonkey just said that he purchased a battery via eBay. I just wanted to inform about the new replacement batteries from NewerTech.

zap2

Aug 8, 2005, 04:26 PM

This is good, i hope this makes iPod cheaper and if some compnay help apple fail then apple does not suffer becuz they make there own needs( or more of them) The battery thing if nice, looks like apple is adding a few need things

narco

Aug 8, 2005, 04:27 PM

So how did you fit all your music on a CD player before iPods were around. I am sure you can find a way to put music you actually listen to on your 60. Unless you are going around the world so many times you need 15,000 songs to only listen to each one with out repeating.

I am starting to think your house might have large stacks of magazines and newspapers.

Hmm...

I never said I listened to all of the music on my iPod, the point is that I can listen to whatever I want whenever I feel like it. If I put my iPod on shuffle, hear a song I haven't heard in a couple years and then want to listen to the entire album, I can do that. Of course I don't listen to all my music continuously.

It's also dumb to compare the iPod to making a CD. I had to carry a bunch of CDs with me, but the iPod has made that easier. It's like comparing a computer with a calculator.

Not exactly sure what the point of your last remark is. If I was one of those people who had stacks of magazines and newspapers in my apartment, it's safe to assume that I'd also be a total hermit. However, if that were the case then I wouldn't need an iPod with more space since I could just buy a hard drive and listen to my many gigs of music on my computer.

What a dumb comment.

Fishes,
narco.

Kobushi

Aug 8, 2005, 04:55 PM

Yay....More money for Apple while I get a cheaper and possibly better quality and/or more innovative ipod. Sounds like a win-win to me

gekko513

Aug 8, 2005, 04:59 PM

Sounds great since it could mean cheaper and more competitive iPods. I also like that they focus on improving the battery capacity and solution, which is one of the key features of the iPod, instead of trying to throw in more unnecessary features.

hyperpasta

Aug 8, 2005, 05:39 PM

While it means the the iPods will have a teensy bit more bang for the buck, nothing else will come of it.

HOLY CRAP! :eek: 5G iPods! :eek: That's the big news here! And they're coming late this year, which means probably BEFORE iTunes 5 (which will probably be part of iLife '06). So far we have: more battery life, user-replacable battery, in-house scroll wheel. An OK update, but there must be more too it. I hope they aren't too good compared to my brand new 20GB Color :D ...

Whyren

Aug 8, 2005, 06:02 PM

Analog Kid

Aug 8, 2005, 06:17 PM

All I hear is "lower cost for the consumer."

I really don't think the price of the iPod is set by the components-- it's set by the market. As long as Apple clears the warehouse, there's no reason to cut prices.

Besides, unless Apple has decided to start making their own hard drives, I don't think they're going to have a huge impact on the price of the unit. How much can you really save in the click wheel?

narco

Aug 8, 2005, 06:31 PM

I really don't think the price of the iPod is set by the components-- it's set by the market. As long as Apple clears the warehouse, there's no reason to cut prices.

Besides, unless Apple has decided to start making their own hard drives, I don't think they're going to have a huge impact on the price of the unit. How much can you really save in the click wheel?

Well, I was referring to the actual article that states:
These costs saving measures are likely to be reflected in slightly higher margins for Apple and lower iPod costs for the end consumer.

Fishes,
narco.

lopresmb

Aug 8, 2005, 06:39 PM

less expensive is a beautiful thing, if apple could retain profit margins and catch up with lower prices (I'm thinking computers) it would be beautiful, their market share would shoot way up...

pubwvj

Aug 8, 2005, 08:07 PM

Apple is reportedly planning on offering user-replacable batteries in an upcoming iPod line.

The in-house development is nice but what really caught my eye is the above line. Lack of user replaceable batteries is a show-stopper for me on the iPod.

keyMACer

Aug 8, 2005, 08:25 PM

OMG OMG OMG User replacable batteries???? I think hell just froze over..I mean, honestly...pigs were flying when they released the 3 button mouse, but Ahhhh!!! OMG OMG OMG!!!.

Hasn't Hell frozen over twice already? iTunes for Windows/multifunction mouse.... so what comes AFTER hell freezes? It becomes beautiful?!!?

quackattack

Aug 8, 2005, 09:14 PM

This is great news. Further vertical integration only means Apple is in better control of its destiny. It should be more profitable in the long run which is good news for AAPL :D .

egor

Aug 8, 2005, 09:15 PM

So how did you fit all your music on a CD player before iPods were around. I am sure you can find a way to put music you actually listen to on your 60. Unless you are going around the world so many times you need 15,000 songs to only listen to each one with out repeating.

I am starting to think your house might have large stacks of magazines and newspapers.

Hmm...

Personally speaking because I like my music to, you know, actually sound decent a 60GB iPod for myself would hold under 2000 songs, not anywhere near 15,000.. yes, its much better than CDs but they're different products.. you want a high capacity MP3 player so you have that song that you need at that moment right there and then.. a 60GB iPod just isn't going to quite cut the mustard.. having said that, anyone who needs one over 120GB has very bad taste, there just isn't that much good music and all of this is pointless because apple making in-house components isn't going to fix the storage capacity problems considering they really won't have the capability to develop and manufacture mini hard drives.

narco

Aug 8, 2005, 10:05 PM

anyone who needs one over 120GB has very bad taste, there just isn't that much good music

Oh, how I beg to differ. Right now I have over 20,000 individual tracks and have scanned my hard drive on multiple occasions to delete anything that isn't worthy. Truth is, it's very tough. There IS so much good music in the world, I will probably never even come close to listening to all of it in my life time. I am constantly discovering new bands on a daily basis and I become absolutely infatuated with them. It'll be a long while before I'll need 120 gigs, though.

Fishes,
narco.

AidenShaw

Aug 8, 2005, 11:29 PM

...Apple is planning on personally developing more individual components...
Humorous misuse of the term "personally".... ;)

quackattack

Aug 9, 2005, 01:06 AM

Oh, how I beg to differ. Right now I have over 20,000 individual tracks and have scanned my hard drive on multiple occasions to delete anything that isn't worthy. Truth is, it's very tough. There IS so much good music in the world, I will probably never even come close to listening to all of it in my life time. I am constantly discovering new bands on a daily basis and I become absolutely infatuated with them. It'll be a long while before I'll need 120 gigs, though.

Fishes,
narco.

Here, here!

The amount of good music in this world is staggering! It seems like I am constantly discovering new bands, genres, and styles. Get away from the radio and explore what is out there. You will be amazed.

I can easily imagine filling 120 gigs if a few years. This is especially true now that I am ripping everything in lossless!

Mac Dummy

Aug 9, 2005, 02:53 PM

That sounds pretty cool. :cool: Considering since Creative has had user replaceable batteries in its product line for years. :D

bigandy

Aug 10, 2005, 04:20 AM

That sounds pretty cool. :cool: Considering since Creative has had user replaceable batteries in its product line for years. :D

You compare the iPod to all that creative carp? My oh my, what is the world coming to...

Methinks replaceable batteries a la powerbook/ibook would be a great thing, as long as they didn't work loose.. which there's a possibility of if you put a pack on the back of something, in this way.

iMeowbot

Aug 10, 2005, 04:42 AM

Methinks replaceable batteries a la powerbook/ibook would be a great thing, as long as they didn't work loose.. which there's a possibility of if you put a pack on the back of something, in this way.
It seems to work pretty well for phones already, and the choice of different battery sizes depending on the size/time compromise you want to make would be nifty.

Diatribe

Aug 10, 2005, 05:18 AM

anyone who needs one over 120GB has very bad taste, there just isn't that much good music .

Some people have already addressed this ridiculously close-minded comment but I want to add something. Not only are there artist you probably haven't even heard of in a particular genre that are awesome but there exist people who actually listen to more than 1 genre or music in more than 1 language, although you may find that incomprehensible.

wdlove

Aug 10, 2005, 11:12 AM

This just seems to follow along with Steve's desire to be in control. Apple doing it in-house should improve usability. Also continue the ability for the iPod to stay on top of the MP3 market. The idea of cutting costs is good for the investor and consumer.

Analog Kid

Aug 11, 2005, 01:19 AM

Well, I was referring to the actual article that states:
These costs saving measures are likely to be reflected in slightly higher margins for Apple and lower iPod costs for the end consumer.

Yeah, I know. I don't agree with the conclusion the article reaches...

BGil

Aug 11, 2005, 02:03 AM

Some people have already addressed this ridiculously close-minded comment but I want to add something. Not only are there artist you probably haven't even heard of in a particular genre that are awesome but there exist people who actually listen to more than 1 genre or music in more than 1 language, although you may find that incomprehensible.

Not only that but some people like to store their music in a lossless or uncompressed format.

JFreak

Aug 11, 2005, 07:20 AM

Not only that but some people like to store their music in a lossless or uncompressed format.

YES! now if itunes music store only allowed to purchase 24bit/96kHz aiff releases that are not squashed (ruined by overcompression) during mastering ;)

JFreak

Aug 11, 2005, 07:22 AM

The idea of cutting costs is good for the investor and consumer.

yes it is, but also bad for the company that originally created the chip apple is rumoured to begin manufacturing themselves. granted, they have had more than fair revenues from it, but nonetheless, they would deserve to stay in business even if that meant having to lower prices for apple due to ever increasing volume.

JFreak

Aug 11, 2005, 07:24 AM

anyone who needs one over 120GB has very bad taste

just the same way 640kB of main memory should be enough for eveybody? man, i have that 120GB of (high resolution multichannel) audio data for a single cd project alone, and i most definetely do not have a bad taste ;)