PDA

View Full Version : Do you think apple will make a pda?


jamka
Nov 13, 2002, 05:19 PM
what do you think? could the ipod evolve into one? i designed a really cool one in english the other day. it would be like the ipod w/ an internal hd, 5 gb, and a camera like the sony clé so you could make movies and pictures onto the 5 gb hd. i would be a cell phone too. and have airport. and firewire. and...lets see what else, oh yeah! the place where you type grafiti would flip out like a cell phone and, but instead of numbers below it, there would be a full qwerty keyboard! you could just do numbers on the screen, or something. it would run some sort of aqua mobile system and it could also run palm apps by switching, kinda like classic in os x. yeah...and you could connect to the internet through the cell phone.

you may think im crazy, but i think it'd be cool. it would probably be really bulky and expensive, but i'd buy one!

what do people think?

cr2sh
Nov 13, 2002, 06:00 PM
Personally, I hate these new cell-phones/PDAs that have digital camera attachments. The one thing I don't want to do, is take crappy images of stupid **** and waste my time sending it to people. I don't want people sending me their crappy pictures on my phone either. Give me sheer storage capability that is portable, give me a quality digital camera, give me a cell phone.. but don't try to combine all of it in some crappy design that just fails.

Its as if the people designing these things, grabbed a handfull of popular electronics and said "lets try to put this crap together, im not sure why though.." Good innovation has a purpose, this is just a crapathon.

Will Apple put out a PDA? Yes, its in the works now and we'll see it next fall. People went crazy about the iWalk and its to a large extent, all that rumor sites talk about. The people want it and Apple would have to be assclowns not to market one.

cubist
Nov 13, 2002, 06:27 PM
... I mean...

Anyway, forget the tiny QWERTY keyboard. They stink, and that many buttons are going to develop mechanical problems fairly quickly. The Zire has two fewer buttons, and that's good. Better would be no mechanical buttons at all. Graffiti is really easy.

But the iWalk/PDA topic has been done to death already.:rolleyes:

MacBandit
Nov 13, 2002, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by cr2sh
Personally, I hate these new cell-phones/PDAs that have digital camera attachments. The one thing I don't want to do, is take crappy images of stupid **** and waste my time sending it to people. I don't want people sending me their crappy pictures on my phone either. Give me sheer storage capability that is portable, give me a quality digital camera, give me a cell phone.. but don't try to combine all of it in some crappy design that just fails.

Its as if the people designing these things, grabbed a handfull of popular electronics and said "lets try to put this crap together, im not sure why though.." Good innovation has a purpose, this is just a crapathon.

Will Apple put out a PDA? Yes, its in the works now and we'll see it next fall. People went crazy about the iWalk and its to a large extent, all that rumor sites talk about. The people want it and Apple would have to be assclowns not to market one.



Well that is definitley your oppinion. I personally would love to have an all in one phone. GPS/Phone/PDA/Digital Camera it does not have to be even a 1MP camera either. Sometimes you see things that you just can't describe but you don't really care to have a nice photo of. Simply to be able to send a small photograph could save a lot of time.

Here is what I think Apple should do this is simply my oppinion.

They should make a cell phone that is about 2" wide by 4" long and .7" thick. The face of the phone would be one big TFT color screen and use graphiti for input. There would be some simple navigation buttons on the side for quick access to voice mail and address book. Integrate a GPS give it an accessory port kind of like the Handspring has and the ability to use CF type I and II cards. It doesn't necessarily need a hard drive but it would be nice. The MicroDrives CF Type II are up to 2GB but are rather slow. What could be done is have an internal hard drive and 16MB of internal ram with the ability to add ram with the CF card slot. 512MB CF Type I cards are under $200.

With this setup if you want a little camera you can connect it to the port. If you want to send large high quality photos simply take your CF card out of your digital camera and stick it in the phone and send it. I think Apple would do well to modify and improove a version of PalmOS rather then creating there own version from scratch. This would give people access to the thousands of programs available on the Palm and insure compatibility.

jamka
Nov 13, 2002, 07:25 PM
sorry, i didn't know that this topic has been done to death. sorry to bore everyone with my extravagant ideas, geeze.

Archer
Nov 13, 2002, 07:33 PM
To use the Palm OS, soon to be OS 6 would be to use BeOS. How ironic, isn't it? I don't think there is a large BeOS software base, however I'm sure the boys over at Palm will do the backward software thing. Now to get into bed with Palm and do a Maccentric Apple PDA would also be getting into bed with Sony. Sony is a huge Palm supporter. Note that they use Palm OS and not Pocket PC. The reason? Sony owns about 6% of Palm, someone check me please.

That said, I would love to see Sony, Palm and Apple get into bed and create a new handheld device that would be based on BeOS and open source technology. Hey, why the hell not. Humbly waiting for the future to be distributed my way on the cheaps.

MacBandit
Nov 13, 2002, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Archer
To use the Palm OS, soon to be OS 6 would be to use BeOS. How ironic, isn't it? I don't think there is a large BeOS software base, however I'm sure the boys over at Palm will do the backward software thing. Now to get into bed with Palm and do a Maccentric Apple PDA would also be getting into bed with Sony. Sony is a huge Palm supporter. Note that they use Palm OS and not Pocket PC. The reason? Sony owns about 6% of Palm, someone check me please.

That said, I would love to see Sony, Palm and Apple get into bed and create a new handheld device that would be based on BeOS and open source technology. Hey, why the hell not. Humbly waiting for the future to be distributed my way on the cheaps.


Well if you have'nt noticed Sony and Apple are already buddy buddy. I don't remember why I just know that they are.

DreaminDirector
Nov 13, 2002, 10:18 PM
Yeah, Apple has been bed buddies since S.Jobs announced iSync and the bluetooth module (It was the beginning of this year, I think....). I personally think that if Apple did come out with a PDA and they were working with Sony, we'd have another super innovation on our hands (no pun intended). The sony PDAs currently kick the crap out of the Palms, and if Apple put a mini-version of OSX into a Sony PDA and/or hybrid phone, they'll have almost any amount of money from me and my dwindling bank account.

gandalf55
Nov 14, 2002, 06:02 AM
the t68i cellphone is good enough right now. how many pdas are out there now? many. how many work with mac? enough. i see no burning need for apple to come out with a pda. the ipod is for playing music and sneaker disc'in files. it has some pda features - and enough of them in my opinion.

let apple concentrate on getting macs with processors faster than a twisted rubberband before they worry about pdas for the mac masses.

Wash!!
Nov 14, 2002, 08:22 AM
Apple does not need to get in bed with Palm to have a good OS for a PDA they already have it is call the Newton OS 2.x it supported color and had all the bells and whistles you ever wanted.

Even now 5 years later the newton OS still years ahead of what palm or pocket PC (mini-winblows) can do today.

Apple (Steve) Kill it the company but not the OS just take a look at inkwell aka newton handwriting tech, there where some prototypes that were in color and e ven supported USB at the time and yes there was even a tablet newton.

Apple is just buying its time to perfect the tech and getting there bluethooth, etc...

I had tried does palm os other than the fact that they are small they suck like there is no tomorrow
the graffiti thing is a pain to use.
Once you have use a Newton you will never want to use any of the others.
cheers!!

MacBandit
Nov 14, 2002, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Wash!!
Apple does not need to get in bed with Palm to have a good OS for a PDA they already have it is call the Newton OS 2.x it supported color and had all the bells and whistles you ever wanted.

Even now 5 years later the newton OS still years ahead of what palm or pocket PC (mini-winblows) can do today.

Apple (Steve) Kill it the company but not the OS just take a look at inkwell aka newton handwriting tech, there where some prototypes that were in color and e ven supported USB at the time and yes there was even a tablet newton.

Apple is just buying its time to perfect the tech and getting there bluethooth, etc...

I had tried does palm os other than the fact that they are small they suck like there is no tomorrow
the graffiti thing is a pain to use.
Once you have use a Newton you will never want to use any of the others.
cheers!!

I agree that the Newton OS was second to none but that leaves us again without being able to use current software. I personally want to be able to use the palmOS software that's available for controlling my telescope and the planetarium software. I think Apple would do well to just modify the PalmOS to fit it's style. This would give us the best of both worlds. Compatibility with the 10s of thousands of current palmOS programs with compatibility and familiarity with the MacOS.

The only real problem I have with the current Sony Palms or I would own one is that they use the Sony Memory Sticks. The largest current size you can get a Memory Stick is 128MB and that costs as much as a 512MB CF Type I card. Also Memory Sticks are incompatible with anything but Sony devices.

Wash!!
Nov 14, 2002, 10:09 AM
There is program that allows you to run the Palm OS on the newton
It is in alfa stage but it works even the graffity crap.
look at this picture from the screen grab of a Newton 2100 running the palm os

Ps I got this from a newton site chuma.org

MacBandit
Nov 14, 2002, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Wash!!
There is program that allows you to run the Palm OS on the newton
It is in alfa stage but it works even the graffity crap.
look at this picture from the screen grab of a Newton 2100 running the palm os

Ps I got this from a newton site chuma.org

That would be cool but that doesn't mean that it will be compatible with any of the Palm or Handspring modules to add functionality and communications to telescopes and the like.

I'm mainly giving my stance as an example. I think it would be foolish to pass up all the preexisting software and hardware available to the Palms.

I am in no way saying that Apple is foolish for not being compatible with all the PC Apps out there. That is a completely different situation. Apple was around before PC compatibles. This Palm device if they make it is being made with a preexisting market. If they want to succed and sell a million they need to recognize this and use the currently available software and hardware as a foothold.

jrv3034
Nov 14, 2002, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by cr2sh
Its as if the people designing these things, grabbed a handfull of popular electronics and said "lets try to put this crap together, im not sure why though.." Good innovation has a purpose, this is just a crapathon.

I, for one, think that merging pda's and cell phones is not only very efficient, but also almost inevitable. The current palm smartphones, although bulky, are quite handy for contacts and datebooks, not to mention the whole email/web thing, especially for business users who don't want to xcarry a palm and a phone. In the next few years we'll see all cellphones more like pda's, it's only logical. As far as cameras go, I don't think I need one on my cell/pda, but I'm sure I wouldn't mind it being there. Keep your eyes on the Kyocera 7135 palm phone coming soon!;)

Wash!!
Nov 14, 2002, 10:32 AM
I not saying they should use the existing Hardware,They have to update it you know add USB, FireWire, Wireless, color screen, etc...to the units and make them as portable as the Palm/visor.

But the Newton OS with the capabilty to run palm programs, this develpment just shows how flexiable the OS is. Just like right now we can use OS X and also run OS 9 at the same time. This is just a sample.

MacBandit
Nov 14, 2002, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Wash!!
I not saying they should use the existing Hardware,They have to update it you know add USB, FireWire, Wireless, color screen, etc...to the units and make them as portable as the Palm/visor.

But the Newton OS with the capabilty to run palm programs, this develpment just shows how flexiable the OS is. Just like right now we can use OS X and also run OS 9 at the same time. This is just a sample.

I agree totally. What's the speed like with while running the Palm OS?

If they make it compatible with existing apps and hardware I could care less what OS it runs.

Wash!!
Nov 14, 2002, 10:54 AM
like I said before the pict was posted on chuma.org by a deloverper who is working on it.

And is not release yet pending bug fixes and adding other funtions. as the performance I don't think it would be no difference than running the real thing as the newton 2100 prossesor has plenty of horse power to deal with it.

Yukon
Nov 14, 2002, 12:18 PM
Oops, full message to follow below.

Yukon
Nov 14, 2002, 01:03 PM
As a business owner, inventor, appl shareholder, techno-luster and, most importantly, a lover of all things Mac, I think Apple would be crazy NOT to enter into the PDA market. BUT, that said, it must be done right. They must hit the bulls-eye the first time, like they did with the iPod. This is extremely hard to do for technical, visionary, design, and even internal politicking reasons. All the necessary elements are aligned. First off, the hardware technology is in place to do it right (more on that in a second). Secondly, Apple is well on their way to have O.S. X be the standard bearer for their, AND, their competitors future (tell me that the next Windoz O.S. won't have as many of the Mac O.S. features as is legally possible—most likely even infringing on Apple's O.S. knowing how Balmer and Gates operate). Thereby making Apple's O.S. the perfect aqua oriented system for a handheld/phone. Finally, the cell phone industry is entering their third generation (3G) and is ready for true usefullness beyond simple conversations - i.e. wireless broadband!!! Can't you see? This is the perfect time for Apple to be "developing" such a device. Apple is already smart enough to recongnize this "useful devices" mentality with the iPod—the right digital device to intro. as their first foray beyond computers. Okay, now for the fun part (as I see it): It must be a timeless design whose components can be upgraded for years, i.e. memory, O.S., screens, connections, etc. Therefor, I recommend something not unlike the Sony Clié. Aluminum case, flip open (for double the work space/usability), with an edge-to-edge-to-edge screen (ideally OLED) showing 16 million colors brightly lit (cheaper, brighter, higher resolution using less power—this is all available through OLED, check it out). It must be thin, light, strong, high tolerence design. Now for the kicker, the built in phone would also work via Bluetooth with a small ear-bud or over-the-ear receiver that would be bought as an accessory. Thereby allowing us to speak/listen via the wireless Bluetooth earpiece while at the same time taking notes, looking at email, attachments, files, photos, video clips, a TV show (you know, incase it's a telemarketer or your mother-in-law calling)... all on the screen of the Apple iPad in our hand. No more juggling a phone in the ear while holding a semi-useful PDA to do what - look up someone's address? Let's make the PDA/phone a seamless unit that is actually useful for hundreds of real-life possibilities. That's one of the limitations with the Pocket PC available through cellular carrier T•Mobil, you're either talking or PDAing - not both at the same time. Next, it should use xD memory — the new memory format card co-developed by Fuji and Olympus and soon to be adopted by all the major camera companies, it's smaller than a postage stamp, nearly as thin and will, by mid to late 2003 hold up to 8 GIG's. Yes, I said gigabits! Check it out at Best Buy and on Google. Now throw in the 20 Gig HD from the iPod (if it isn't heavy...?) and of coarse USB and Firewire connections. You wouldn't need a dock because it would have Bluetooth to wirelessly sync (think iSync now) at broadband rates since Bluetooth is a wireless, broadband, short distance technology (9-30 feet). And finally, for all the Palm folks out there. Jump on board because like the real world, business is business and the truth is that the Apple O.S. is so much better, foreward thinking than Palms O.S. Just as Apple has moved on with O.S. 9. (some might think abandon), Apple should put out a world-class PDA with their already existing world-class O.S. X. Let it operate Palm programs like O.S. X operates in Classic, but, let the best experience be with Apple's own O.S. X—PDA version. Nothing personal against Palm. They just aren't visionary enough. So what if they have the greatest market share. Wells Fargo Stage Coach Co. did too. They don't have what Apple has and it's the right time for Apple to fill in the Gap.

MacBandit
Nov 14, 2002, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by Yukon
Next, it should use xD memory — the new memory format card co-developed by Fuji and Olympus and soon to be adopted by all the major camera companies, it's smaller than a postage stamp, nearly as thin and will, by mid to late 2003 hold up to 8 GIG's. Yes, I said gigabits!

I'm sure you meant Gigabytes. Not bits. As 8 Gigabits would only equal 1 Gigabyte.

brainless
Nov 15, 2002, 08:08 AM
I think rather than releasing PDA ala Palm or PocketPC Apple should create a minimal subnotebook. No keyboard, big screen (640x320), lots of connectivity (external monitor, firewire, bluetooth), 2,5 harddrive, PowerPC running regular MacOS X
Something like OQO (www.oqo.com) but with OS X
Can be marketed as iPod II as well. What you think ?

JohnStrass
Nov 15, 2002, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by brainless
I think rather than releasing PDA ala Palm or PocketPC Apple should create a minimal subnotebook. No keyboard, big screen (640x320), lots of connectivity (external monitor, firewire, bluetooth), 2,5 harddrive, PowerPC running regular MacOS X
Something like OQO (www.oqo.com) but with OS X
Can be marketed as iPod II as well. What you think ?

Amen. Apple will make big bucks by fillining another untapped niche; that is what the iPod did.

1. Apple needs a sub-notebook; that would get many of us to buy an extra device, not to get us to purchase Apple PDA to replace a Palm PDA. I love my iMac 17in, but I need something portable to show off my imaging work
2. iPod2 is a no-brainer: slap a bigger screen, color, on that puppy, let it iSync with iPhoto (and a CF slot) and presto, a real digital wallet device. Again, a new market niche, not an attempt to compete with sony/palm/WinCE (or whatever they are called now)
3. I love my Newton. It still kicks but on any PDA, but the reality is that software is key. Palm has a gazilion apps.

So, though I would buy an apple dream PDA, it would be silly for apple to make one and set it out compete in the glutted market for PDAs
John
who realized that 10.2.2 is the real Jaguar release:)

brainless
Nov 15, 2002, 10:21 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cr2sh
The one thing I don't want to do, is take crappy images of stupid **** and waste my time sending it to people. I don't want people sending me their crappy pictures on my phone either. Give me sheer storage capability that is portable, give me a quality digital camera, give me a cell phone.. but don't try to combine all of it in some crappy design that just fails.[QUOTE]

This concept has been just introduced by majority of mobile carriers around the world. new phones come with built in camera. It is called MMS (Multimedia Messages). They invested heavily into MMS. People are just starting to use it in mass scale. I found it handly that my new Nokia 7650 has camera too. No great picture quality, but I found myself in situations saying "Wish I had a camera with me..." only realizing that I actually have one.
Call it stupid, but seems to be wealthy concept. I like the idea to wear one multipurpose device with me give its size is alright.

But maybe all those people are wrong and You are right.

rjrufo
Nov 15, 2002, 10:47 AM
I like Yukon's idea of a Bluetooth headset for the phone functions. Another use of the Bluetooth could be for the stereo headset when listening to MP3's.
I'm thinking that the iPod is the perfect platform to build on. Keep the current size, but add a full size color touch screen, remove the scroll wheel and buttons and make it a software scroll wheel when used as a MP3 player. Add a software Qwerty keyboard when used for notes, schedule entry, phone entry, or anytime when data entry is needed (iSync would be the preferred method for me).
Some of the software I'd like to see on it has already been mentioned, like iTunes and iPhoto, but I'd also like to see iCal, Chat, Mail and maybe the new web browser Apple is supposedly developing. The last two would need some kind of wireless internet service like http://www.ricochet.com/ when away from the office. OS-X would be cool too, and it could possibly be configured to run Palm software, although with the iApps I just mentioned, I wouldn't think there would be any need for that.
Anyway, just my $0.02, and my wish list.

Dunepilot
Nov 15, 2002, 11:53 AM
Guys, look at this incredible little piece of kit from some ex-IBM employees which runs on Linux, had Bluetooth, and a built-in fingerprint reader!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/28084.html

Now all we need is one of these with an apple logo on it, maybe a firewire port for transferring larger amounts of data than bluetooth is suitable for, running a BSD-based UNIX with an aqua front end.

I would love to get my hands on one of these babies. If it can be done with Linux, why not with Unix?

jefhatfield
Nov 15, 2002, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by jamka
what do you think? could the ipod evolve into one?

definitely, but it has to be done without eyelikeart knowing about it:p

jamka
Nov 16, 2002, 04:57 PM
the oqo is cool, except it's very windows....

lungaretta
Nov 25, 2002, 05:34 PM
Rather than apple taking the risky route of hardware development and all that entails, i understand that darwin and OSX are very portable architectures.

My suggestion would be to build an OSX lite for existing hardware.

We all have our Palms (or dare i say some of you may even have your iPaqs or somesuch nonesense!) already and i for one don't relish the thought of another £450 (this side of the pond) outlay for another PDA - Even though this one may be the superior Apple produce.

With an OSX lite install on my current hardware, i would have the best of both worlds. Smaller outlay for the new OS and COMPLETE compatibility with my laptop. Apple would have a lot less riskier investment as they would be working on software and not need the usual fabrication overheads that hardware brings.

It may not be the bells and whistles that some have said, and i agree, an Apple PDA would be lovely (esp. with bluetooth headset for phone functionality) but i can't see that happening in the currently saturated PDA market place. So my upgrade current hardware idea is the equivilent of using wintel hardware for Linux or Darwin x86.

Just a thought of a long time reader/first time poster.
;)