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MacBytes
Aug 10, 2005, 10:15 AM
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Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Do Macs exist? (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050810101502)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

gwuMACaddict
Aug 10, 2005, 10:18 AM
ha! interesting article- makes some very good points- i def agree with most of what he said!

ppc_michael
Aug 10, 2005, 10:33 AM
That was pretty pointless. While most might not notice Macs themselves have disappeared, they'd notice it when there are no more movies, TV, or music produced.

Mr. Anderson
Aug 10, 2005, 10:39 AM
Like anything, if you ask a random selection of people, it might be more than the 5% he's talking about. One thing I don't like about this article is that its all talk - he's speculating and if he actually cared about what he was writing, he'd have gone into the streets and asked 200 people to see if his theory was correct.

To me it sounds like he needed to write a story, so just spewed some stuff out to meet his deadline. Bleh....

I'd love to know the results of a test though.

D

xli_ne
Aug 10, 2005, 10:41 AM
the article makes a good point.

michaelrjohnson
Aug 10, 2005, 10:52 AM
A typical AppleMatters article. :rolleyes:

Overall, I think Apple has a much larger mindshare than suggested, but only in the percentage of the population that cares about computers. Do most computer users care about their computer? No.

Mitthrawnuruodo
Aug 10, 2005, 10:54 AM
Pretty interesting views, and I think he's on to something. The majority of people have no idea what a Mac is or that there's a company called Apple that makes computers. But, he still has some minor faults in his logics: Most tech oriented people, like those writing all those Windows (and Linux) articles are very well aware of Apple. But, hey, they just don't care, and that's their prerogative...

<sidetrack>

We cannot force people to get a sudden interest in Macs, even those PC-sentrics who are very happy with their iPods. What we, as a Mac community can do is to take as good a care of those fed up with their malware infected Pieces of Cr@p that are looking for alternatives and give them (sober) advice.

And of course, whenever a PC owner complaints about malware problem or incompatible drivers just point out that you don't have those problems. Don't start a lecture or even praise your Mac, just a simple statement will do. That way you might avoid the PC owner going into a complete defensive lock-down (people do that, even Mac users when someone attacks our Macs), and slowly they might consider switching. I've already switched several family members this way, and more are on the way... ;)

</sidetrack>

The iPod halo effect might be real, in that it makes more people aware of Apple, but unfortunately that won't make all the journalists and editors in the world suddenly start praising a brand of machines the know of, but still knows nothing about...

Applespider
Aug 10, 2005, 11:03 AM
I think it's partly true. Many stores don't sell Macs so when someone needs a new PC, they don't necessarily know it's an option.

That's where I think Apple's decision to invest in retail stores rather than spending money on lots of advertising pays dividends. Although it's cheaper selling online, it's cheaper to build awareness on high streets. Consumers spend a lot of time in malls, even when they're not shopping for computers. They get used to see an Apple store with computers in the windows. And there's the benefit that if they decide they're interested, they don't have to visit a website, they don't have to call anyone, they can go in and talk to a real person and walk back out with a computer.

OhEsTen
Aug 10, 2005, 11:18 AM
HOW could a PC magazine consider an OS X vs WinXP "shootout" to be a DRAW?! That is just B.S.

He is right though about the PC magazine reviews. Whenever any magazine "compares" Macs with win/pc's they never reccomend Macs. Most articles tend to focus on the things to don't come with a Mac - but then fail to tell people how most of what does come on a Mac is much better than what comes on most win/pc's. Granted, there may be a few extra steps for someone to make if they are "switching" - but if they are tired of the lack of reliability/security of the wintel world - why put up with it any longer. I don't think Macs are great for everyone as there are some people out there that it wouldn't be feasable for - but most people are pretty good candidates.

OhEsTen
Aug 10, 2005, 11:20 AM
We cannot force people to get a sudden interest in Macs, even those PC-sentrics who are very happy with their iPods. What we, as a Mac community can do is to take as good a care of those fed up with their malware infected Pieces of Cr@p that are looking for alternatives and give them (sober) advice.

And of course, whenever a PC owner complaints about malware problem or incompatible drivers just point out that you don't have those problems. Don't start a lecture or even praise your Mac, just a simple statement will do. That way you might avoid the PC owner going into a complete defensive lock-down (people do that, even Mac users when someone attacks our Macs), and slowly they might consider switching. I've already switched several family members this way, and more are on the way... ;)


well said.

dukeblue91
Aug 10, 2005, 11:38 AM
Well he made some good points but as said before it's all speculation and nothing more.

I went to google Apple mindshare and came up with this and found it quite interesting:
http://www.brandchannel.com/start1.asp?fa_id=248

That's just the brand name but I don't thing it's just because of the iPod and iTunes.
Also looking at the growth % of Apple financial quarterly statements and the growth of computer sales, I venture to say that allot of people know about Mac computers.

The question is more like how will Apple retain their customer base and is it really all that good to grow this big this fast.
But that's for another thread :D

rjwill246
Aug 10, 2005, 11:45 AM
I was in London a week ago and before leaving, a friend asked if I could bring her a MacMini as she had finally decided to dump Windows and was not able to obtain a MacMini for three weeks! They are selling quite well despite some media analystsí impressions. I had to go to the Apple Store - what a place- and was shocked to see how full it was for late night Thursday shopping.

Conversations I listened to in English and French in the non- iPod areas made it clear that Apple is gaining mind-share and traction. Will it last? Who knows? But growth often follows a sigma shaped curve- investors hate the early part of that curve but love what follows- and we have to remember that Apple has been on that curve twice before, coming and going. They are being given a second chance on the "up" part and hopefully this time they will take advantage of the enormous buzz that they have created in the world from the iPod etc.

Which leads me to make a comment about the article: all surveys show that Apple is one of the most recognized brands in the world, so the writer has really answered his own question. Some PC users may diss Apple (often IT types) but itís sudden disappearance would now make a thunderclap not a passing sigh!

Lacero
Aug 10, 2005, 11:48 AM
Sorry to burst your collective bubbles, but Macs are talked about 5% of the time. Sample from a random population and most people don't care or give a rat's ass about the halo effect or anything to do with Macs. Face it, we are living and reading a distorted version of events. The article is all very true.

greatdevourer
Aug 10, 2005, 12:04 PM
The thing is, if Apple dissappeared suddenly, people would notice. They're much more influential than you might think. The vast majority of people use iTunes, for a start

BenRoethig
Aug 10, 2005, 12:09 PM
HOW could a PC magazine consider an OS X vs WinXP "shootout" to be a DRAW?! That is just B.S.

Compatibility of hardware. OSX might be a much better OS for consumers, but it doesn't do them any good if they can't run it on their computer.

nagromme
Aug 10, 2005, 02:12 PM
Pretty interesting views, and I think he's on to something. The majority of people have no idea what a Mac is or that there's a company called Apple that makes computers.

Well I think most people DO know that there's a company called Apple that makes (or used to) computers called Macs.

Most people also also know that there's a company called John Deere that makes combination harvesters.

And unless that directly affects them, they couldn't care less. They SHOULD, because they unlike combination harvesters, most of them USE computers. But they don't. Apple is off the radar--EVEN to many tech-literate people.

That is changing, though.

The_Man
Aug 10, 2005, 02:58 PM
I think that this article brings up some very good points. Before I got into Macs I barely even remembered they existed. If I were looking for a computer and someone mentioned a Mac, a thought process would go through my head sort of like "I wanted a computer, not a Mac". The thing that turned me on to Macs was Garageband. My brother mentioned to me that there was this really cool music program where you can creat these really cool songs, but, my brother said, it is only for Macs. So a few months later a friend of mine had gotten a Mac for christmas, so I decided to explore Garageband, which led me to explor apple.com and look at the computers. Before I knew what Garageband was, Apple Computers were so insignificant to me that it was hard for me to remember that they still made computers and that they didn't run Windows XP.
Now, that I've "seen the light", I know everything that Macs have to offer and I can get a much better judgment between Microsoft and Apple.
Now, as I try to remember what my thoughts were about Computers before I discovered Apple, it is getting harder and harder to follow what my thought process would have been like at a time when I might have been thinking of computers.
So I think that this article does throw out a good idea, but I would like to see more stats and figures to prove it goes farther than just me and the author of that article.

Mitthrawnuruodo
Aug 10, 2005, 03:05 PM
Well I think most people DO know that there's a company called Apple that makes (or used to) computers called Macs.I think you overestimate the general knowledge of technical things among "ordinary" people. Most will not be able to name any (or at least more than a very few) computer producers, maybe not even their own. And Apple is FAR better known in the USA than the rest of the world. Here in Europe Apple has a market share that makes the US market share look astronomical... ;)
Most people also also know that there's a company called John Deere that makes combination harvesters.I didn't know that, and I think you can count the people in e.g. Norway that knows this on a couple of hands**, excluding farmers... :D

** I'm of course able to count binary on my hands, enabling me to count to 31 on one hand and 1023 using both... ;)

gekko513
Aug 10, 2005, 06:19 PM
Most people also also know that there's a company called John Deere that makes combination harvesters.
I think most people don't even know what a combination harvester is. (I know Shibaura makes tractors, though ;) )

nagromme
Aug 10, 2005, 08:17 PM
I don't know what a combination harvester is :o

But I know I don't need one.

Trowaman
Aug 11, 2005, 03:15 AM
I think most people don't even know what a combination harvester is. (I know Shibaura makes tractors, though ;) )

I know John Deer makes TRACTORS and FARM EQUIPMENT. WTF is a combination harvester?

I'm in Texas where people love farms and FFA junk and I go to feed stores occasionally for rabbit food and I have no idea what the thing is. (Nor do I care to know)

Applespider
Aug 11, 2005, 03:30 AM
WTF is a combination harvester?


I just kinda assumed he meant a combine harvester which I had my first driving experience on... :p

LethalWolfe
Aug 11, 2005, 03:52 AM
That was pretty pointless. While most might not notice Macs themselves have disappeared, they'd notice it when there are no more movies, TV, or music produced.

Yeah, because before Apple none of those things ever existed... :rolleyes:



Lethal

SuperChuck
Aug 11, 2005, 05:30 AM
How many times has Steve Jobs been on the cover of Time or Newsweek showing off the latest, greatest Apple gizmo. Apple releases a two-button mouse and the freakin' New York Times does a retrospective of the evolution of mice to mark the occasion.

Virtually every major media organization gives Apple a disproportionate amount of attention. And they should. Let's face it - Apple is interesting.

wdlove
Aug 11, 2005, 10:33 AM
I'm with Mr. Anderson, would like to see the results of polling done on his theories. It would be interesting no doubt.

ham_man
Aug 11, 2005, 10:33 AM
** I'm of course able to count binary on my hands, enabling me to count to 31 on one hand and 1023 using both... ;)
I think that that is the easiest way to learn binary. Very simple once you get the hang of it, except trying to show people 4...:eek: :rolleyes:

And as for tractors, no such thing as a combination harvester exists. There is however a combine harvester, which (when used with the right heads) harvests corn, maize, wheat, etc. I can count the three major farm equipment producers - CASE, John Deere, and New Holland. What can I say? My uncle and grandfather are both farmers... :cool:

Mitthrawnuruodo
Aug 11, 2005, 01:00 PM
I think that that is the easiest way to learn binary. Very simple once you get the hang of it, except trying to show people 4...:eek: :rolleyes: I think 132 is worse... :D

feakbeak
Aug 11, 2005, 01:12 PM
I follow PC and Mac news and I would disagree with this article. While the average person might not hear as much Mac news as us, obviously I think there is definitely more exposure to Mac these days, even in the Windows/PC world.

My uncle had a bunch of free subscriptions to PC Magazine (not sure how) and so he signed me up for a year. I wouldn't subscribe to any computer magazine as there is too much content online already, but it was free. I've been getting it for about six months now and I at least 3 or 4 of the issues had an article about Macs or OS X whether it be about the Mini or Tiger or the move to x86. I just got the latest issue yesteday and it had an article about Windows annoyances and OS alternatives and it did quick reviews of Xandros 3.0 and Tiger.

I also read AnandTech.com fairly often and they added a Mac tab not long ago and have been adding articles at the rate of about one a month. These are long, in depth articles that I believe paint a fair picture of the Mac platform for PC/Windows users. I've also seen a little bit more Mac news in the mainstream media, thoug not much and it is mostly mentioned as a sidenote to the iPod buzz.

solvs
Aug 12, 2005, 05:05 PM
Sorry to burst your collective bubbles, but Macs are talked about 5% of the time.
I don't know, that 5% is marketshare. Figure more than that as home users, ignoring the business machines and the constant upgraders. As well as those with both PCs and Macs. And all the people who like Macs, but haven't actually bought one for what ever reason. Plus all the people who hate Macs, but are fully aware of them. Seems like you'd get more than 5%.

But then, ~90% of the world doesn't care anything about computers, so that figure is probably actually kinda low. :p

aquajet
Aug 12, 2005, 07:30 PM
I think that this article brings up some very good points. Before I got into Macs I barely even remembered they existed. If I were looking for a computer and someone mentioned a Mac, a thought process would go through my head sort of like "I wanted a computer, not a Mac". The thing that turned me on to Macs was Garageband. My brother mentioned to me that there was this really cool music program where you can creat these really cool songs, but, my brother said, it is only for Macs. So a few months later a friend of mine had gotten a Mac for christmas, so I decided to explore Garageband, which led me to explor apple.com and look at the computers. Before I knew what Garageband was, Apple Computers were so insignificant to me that it was hard for me to remember that they still made computers and that they didn't run Windows XP.
Now, that I've "seen the light", I know everything that Macs have to offer and I can get a much better judgment between Microsoft and Apple.
Now, as I try to remember what my thoughts were about Computers before I discovered Apple, it is getting harder and harder to follow what my thought process would have been like at a time when I might have been thinking of computers.
So I think that this article does throw out a good idea, but I would like to see more stats and figures to prove it goes farther than just me and the author of that article.

That's very interesting Man, thanks for that. I know plenty of PC users who think like you used to, the whole "I want a computer, not a Mac" mindset. A guy I work with told me "I've got nothing against Apple, I just don't like the operating system." When I asked him when the last time he used a mac, he said "Maybe 7 or 8 years ago." When I told him the current Mac OS is totally different and is UNIX, his eyes lit up and and said "Really!?" I was also showing another PC-using friend Expose on my tiny 12" PowerBook, and when he saw it told me "Wow, that is truly amazing. That's perhaps the coolest user interface component I've seen in a long time." After buying an iPod, and showing him more cool things on a PowerBook, he's decided to buy a Mac when the time comes to retire his Dell.

greatdevourer
Aug 13, 2005, 03:27 AM
A guy I work with told me "I've got nothing against Apple, I just don't like the operating system." When I asked him when the last time he used a mac, he said "Maybe 7 or 8 years ago."
They're everywhere. Sure, they've used one, but 1) That was classic, 2) They were still in primary school. But, I guess, it's just easier to stick to what they're used to