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DrumApple
Sep 6, 2012, 12:28 PM
I'm killing myself debating between a new 13" MBA or the new Thinkpad X1 Carbon. I'm bilingual in OS, so it doesn't matter much to me. The main thing pushing me towards the X1C is the screen (and keyboard), I HATE glossy screens. Thoughts? I do mostly web, word processing, music, some light Photoshop and movie editing work occasionally.

BTW this infographic is interesting: http://www.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/carbon-infographic.html



iAppl3Fan
Sep 6, 2012, 12:41 PM
If you're on a Mac forum, expect to get bias results learning toward the MBA.

I've been a Windows user all my life and after making the switch last year, I'll never look back. I suggest the MBA and dual boot when needed.

The graphic is interesting. Thanks for sharing. It's also from Lenovo so the result would be skewed towards it too.

Team Timm
Sep 6, 2012, 12:45 PM
Being as we are all on the same forum, I would have to go with the MBA.

And you realize the infographic is from Lenovo? (bias opinions)

Edit: iAppl3Fan, you beat me too it. :)

filmbuff
Sep 6, 2012, 12:48 PM
Wow, now I want an X1 Carbon. That thing looks awesome! The screen on the Air is fantastic though, I would like an anti-glare screen for lots of word processing on the road but Photoshop and video work is a lot better with a colorful, glossy screen. The X1 is about $300 more than the Air.

I did think it was funny that the graphic showed jets and racecars under "some other things made of carbon fiber" and a roll of aluminum foil under the Mac. :) In real life CF is essentially plastic and Aluminum is probably better for looks, heat distribution, and durability.

I do want to know how Lenovo got a "surround sound experience" from a laptop :D

DrumApple
Sep 6, 2012, 12:57 PM
Yes, I realize it's from Lenovo and it is skewed a bit. But it is pretty accurate, although reviews of the X1C generally show less than 8 hours of battery life as the graphic claims.

I could buy one of those anti-glare film adhesives from Moshi and put it on the Air, but I pretty much refuse to spend that much money and not get what I really want! Plus it does diffuse the screen slightly, and is a pain to apply perfectly...

m.demian
Sep 6, 2012, 01:02 PM
The main things going for the X1 are the Matte screen with larger resolution and possibly better wireless card. Everything else internally is nearly identical with both base models having 128GB SSDs, 4GB memory, and the i5 (although the Air's is slightly higher clocked).

The base model X1 at $1,329 is $130 more than the base Air. If you qualify for the Education discount, then you can get an Air with the 256GB SSD upgrade for $1,349 at Best Buy - double the storage of the same priced X1. Otherwise, you can get the base 13'' Air (with edu discount) for around $1,049 at Best Buy.

It depends if the extra screen resolution and matte screen are worth it for you. I have no idea how the Lenovo warranty works, but according to that image you posted, it seems like they may include a 3-year warranty?

I think the better comparison is between the Asus UX31A and the 13'' Air. At Best Buy, the 256GB SSD version of the UX31A is $1,300, $50 less than the discounted version of the 256GB Air. Also, you get an IPS 1080p screen. The trackpad and drivers are obviously better on the Air, but it's not like the Asus's are unusable. Overall, the Asus UX31A is probably the best ultrabook on the market right now.

Stetrain
Sep 6, 2012, 01:12 PM
The Carbon looks nice, especially the larger display. The keyboards are probably about the same. I don't know how good the trackpad is, and in my opinion the trackpad is one of the best things about Apple laptops.

Something else interesting is that the only way to get 8GB RAM on the Carbon is to order the $1679 model. With the Air you can choose that option even on the base model.

Barna Biro
Sep 6, 2012, 01:19 PM
According to the Lenovo website, the Carbon can't be configured with more than 4GB of memory. The largest available SSD is 256GB ( not sure if it's easily replaceable ). My biggest problems with it:

1) Not enough memory ( maybe you can upgrade it yourself... not sure )
2) Doesn't have OSX

I think my choice would be quite an obvious one...
The Carbon looks quite nice to be honest, but it wouldn't fit my needs.

felixgun
Sep 6, 2012, 01:46 PM
If you're on a Mac forum, expect to get bias results learning toward the MBA.

I've been a Windows user all my life and after making the switch last year, I'll never look back. I suggest the MBA and dual boot when needed.

The graphic is interesting. Thanks for sharing. It's also from Lenovo so the result would be skewed towards it too.

X2 on this.

I have an MBP and just dual boot Win 7 and Mac OS X. It runs great in windows 7 too. I used to have a top of the line Lenovo laptop (that out-spec'd the MBP) for work and my MBP killed it in every way possible as far as boot time/speed of computer in general is concerned. Also, if re-sale value is a concern (as it is for me as I always like to upgrade sooner then later), the MBA you get will re-sale for WAY more then any Lenovo laptop. I am both a mac and PC user and that's honestly and unfortunately an un-biased fact.

Mrbobb
Sep 6, 2012, 01:54 PM
If ur thinking about the MBA, portability must be on your mind, else u would be looking at a MBP right?

Too me, 13" is just about the biggest I can tolerate for a "literally" laptop. I have a 11" myself, but maybe u have an ample lap, fine.

Never been a fan of IBM, now Lenovo, they just look too "business-like" as they ably advertise it to be. Ewww that eraser head, but OK one doesn't have to use it, but still a sore thumb, to me.

3 years warranty is the only thing I like about it. 3G option interesting but anybody can tether off our smart phone when needed right.

TheRealDamager
Sep 6, 2012, 02:13 PM
Toss up - really depends on whether you want to live in Windows or in MacOS. I'm glad to see the competition - Apple needs to keep coming out with new stuff...

elppa
Sep 6, 2012, 02:15 PM
Lenovo X1 Carbon is very nice machine indeed. It looks fantastic (in my eyes) and it is really cool how they have put a 14" screen in the 13" form factor. The keyboard and trackpad look excellent as well. And of course it will be super durable.

Ideally I'd like the X1 with OS X. I am comfortable use Windows, but I don't enjoy using Windows - so I would always go with the Air.

Overall the graphic is fun and does a nice job of highlighting the advantages of the X1 Carbon. My only quibbles:

- Two points are devoted to vPro, which sounds cool but is actually useless to most consumers (I assume this is not a business purchase).
- Find an independent review where the X1 Carbon gets better battery life than the Air - I think you may struggle.

If you were doing one for the Air, you would probably highlight its unique hardware features such as Thunderbolt, Powernap, asymmetric fans along with software features like iCloud, the Mac App Store.

And the cheaper prices. No one likes paying PC tax. :D

stchman
Sep 6, 2012, 02:17 PM
This is the one area (Ultrabooks) where Apple actually makes a competitively priced laptop.

The screen on the MBA is actually pretty good IMO.

Fighter aircraft also use quite a bit of aluminum in their construction.

At least other laptop makers are moving away from flimsy plastic.

When I was getting a super thin laptop, I considered the Asus Zenbook Prime, but the MBA appeared to be made better.

Ibamac
Sep 6, 2012, 02:19 PM
The Lenovo X1 gets fabulous reviews, and it can be configured to 8GB ram:http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/tech-specs/laptop/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon/. It's also the first Lenovo laptop to have a trackpad said to rival the one on the MBA.

The only drawback I've seen is that it does not have an IPS screen (I like the IPS screen on my Lenovo X220). There are a number of reviews online comparing the two. All the Lenovo computers are substantially cheaper on the Barnes and Noble student site or the shareholders site, if you have access, and everything is constantly on sale for different prices. They price their computers like commodities, with different prices almost daily.

I'm sure you'll enjoy either choice.

Stetrain
Sep 6, 2012, 02:49 PM
The Lenovo X1 gets fabulous reviews, and it can be configured to 8GB ram

Only by buying the $1679 model.

You can get a 13" Macbook Air with 8GB RAM for $1299.


The only drawback I've seen is that it does not have an IPS screen

Neither does the Air. If either one did it would be a great feature.

Barna Biro
Sep 6, 2012, 03:50 PM
The Lenovo X1 gets fabulous reviews, and it can be configured to 8GB ram:http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/tech-specs/laptop/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon/

That's the i5 model... No thank you. Can you find the same memory config for the i7? I couldn't...

elppa
Sep 6, 2012, 04:11 PM
That's the i5 model... No thank you. Can you find the same memory config for the i7? I couldn't...

No, it doesn't exist yet… but Lenovo have indicated the option will be coming "soon".

The i5 won't be that much slower than the i7. It's not like the i7 is quad core or anything. They are both ULV. The marginal gains of the i7 will be very marginal.

m.demian
Sep 6, 2012, 04:15 PM
Neither does the Air. If either one did it would be a great feature.

And that's why the Asus UX31A should be discussed here. Good pricepoint relative to other ultrabooks and comes with 1080p IPS display.

wditters
Sep 6, 2012, 04:20 PM
That's the i5 model... No thank you. Can you find the same memory config for the i7? I couldn't...

The i7 with 8Gb configuration is set for release early October.

Ibamac
Sep 6, 2012, 04:21 PM
That's the i5 model... No thank you. Can you find the same memory config for the i7? I couldn't...

No, you're right:
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X1-Carbon-i7-with-8GB-RAM-Never/td-p/850081

That's surprising...

sviato
Sep 6, 2012, 04:23 PM
The X1 looks impressive, but I thought Lenovo would be more competitive with the prices, especially on the "base" model

Acorn
Sep 6, 2012, 04:28 PM
Ive been eyeing the x1 carbon. it is a sweet machine. I try to remind myself that I already have a 2012 air and to not give in. I dont need more credit card debt thats for sure.

pgiguere1
Sep 6, 2012, 04:48 PM
The infographic is from Lenovo and is heavily biased, as you might expect. Go read real reviews if you want a real comparison.

The X1 Carbon is known to get terribly hot, its measured battery life is actually 4:44 (almost an hour less than a MBA), has a shitton of bloatware and it's quite expensive at $1400. A 13" MBA with the same specs except with a .1GHz faster CPU is $200 less.

I personally wouldn't sacrifice 50 minutes of battery life, an awesome trackpad, pretty design, OS X, .1GHz and 200$ just to get a matte scree, a carbon fiber body and bloatware but of course I'm biased and we're on an Apple forums.

Barna Biro
Sep 6, 2012, 05:09 PM
No, it doesn't exist yet… but Lenovo have indicated the option will be coming "soon".

The i5 won't be that much slower than the i7. It's not like the i7 is quad core or anything. They are both ULV. The marginal gains of the i7 will be very marginal.

Well yeah, maybe the i7 is not useful for most users, but when it comes to compiles times ( especially when compiling often ), every second you can save counts :) ( you're anyway willing giving up a nice amount of speed for mobility, so losing even more isn't that cool )

----------

The i7 with 8Gb configuration is set for release early October.

Nice, but I'm curious if we'll see a 13" rMBP at around the same time ( or early next year ). It will not be easy to choose between a 13" rMBP and the Carbon ( especially since the Carbon doesn't come cheap either ) :)

aeboi
Sep 6, 2012, 05:26 PM
retail pricing is irrelevant, Lenovo always has discounts on their systems

matter of fact you can get the base carbon for $999+ tax right now

pgiguere1
Sep 6, 2012, 06:30 PM
retail pricing is irrelevant, Lenovo always has discounts on their systems

matter of fact you can get the base carbon for $999+ tax right now

Where? It's 1,299.99 on Amazon.

If you want to get into pricing you could also say the MBA has a student rebate + iTunes gift card for students, and its resale value will be much higher.

FluJunkie
Sep 6, 2012, 07:15 PM
Honestly, it's a solid competitor. A decision between the two, at this point, is what OS you prefer to have running.

aeboi
Sep 6, 2012, 10:39 PM
Lenovo increased the price, now it's available for about $1060 + tax from their Barnes& Noble Gold store w/email sign-up coupon.

ixodes
Sep 6, 2012, 10:55 PM
The Carbon looks nice, especially the larger display. The keyboards are probably about the same. I don't know how good the trackpad is, and in my opinion the trackpad is one of the best things about Apple laptops.

Something else interesting is that the only way to get 8GB RAM on the Carbon is to order the $1679 model. With the Air you can choose that option even on the base model.
I have an X1 Carbon ordered. I already have a fresh new 13" MBP.

Having used ThinkPads & Mac laptops for years at work, they are both the best of their respective platforms. In 20 years they've each served me extremely well.

If I had to choose just one, my Mac bias dictates the MBA would be the one.

thejadedmonkey
Sep 6, 2012, 10:58 PM
Honestly, I prefer the Thinkpad. And I have a macbook air, but damn that matte black case is nice!

mattpreston11
Sep 7, 2012, 02:48 AM
Key feature of the Air over the Lenovo.

http://usingapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Macbook-AIr-Backlit-Keyboard.jpg

wditters
Sep 7, 2012, 03:39 AM
Key feature of the Air over the Lenovo.

Image (http://usingapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Macbook-AIr-Backlit-Keyboard.jpg)

Actually the X1 Carbon also has a backlit keyboard ..

DFTU101
Sep 7, 2012, 07:00 AM
I've had several Thinkpads (X300, X200, etc) over the past years. Also have had many Mac laptops including the recent MBAs. The Thinkpads are sturdy and have a great keyboard feel. The one thing that I didn't like about the Thinkpads were the screen brightness. Sure, the matte screen is nice if you don't like a glossy screen (MBA screens are less glossy than some of the MBP though) but I always felt I wanted to turn up the screen brightness on the Thinkpad but found I was already at the max setting. Also, if I were to buy the new X1C, I'd wait until it has Windows 8 release (sometime in October?). I have found that Windows upgrades are always a pain compare to Mac OS upgrades.

DrumApple
Sep 7, 2012, 11:27 AM
Key feature of the Air over the Lenovo.

Image (http://usingapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Macbook-AIr-Backlit-Keyboard.jpg)

LOL research is good buddy... don't have to dig too deep to find that the X1C has a backlit keyboard too.

And the screen is marked at 300 nits, which is pretty damn good. Wish it were IPS though... I think it's just going to come down to me trying the X1C in person. No idea where to find one in person though. Microsoft store doesn't carry it, BestBuy, how does Lenovo expect people to get their products?

Barna Biro
Sep 7, 2012, 01:58 PM
Although the Carbon X1 is a direct competitor of the Air, I'm rather interested in seeing how the 13" rMBP turns out. If things go as expected, the 13" rMBP will be a clear choice over the other models ( except is someone is really into "ultra portability" and is picky about every additional pound and millimetre ). The OS will surely also be quite an important factor... I for one would not want to go back to working on Windows on a daily basis :) gestures and the trackpad are just way too nice ( + setting up environment variables and other stuff... but of course, if the incompetent slave-masters at Microsoft eventually put their acts together, then I might consider switching back to Windows - hackintosh is out the question ).

DrumApple
Sep 7, 2012, 02:03 PM
I don't see the MBP as a competitor, X1C and MBA are competitors but the MBP is not an ultrabook. Not too big on the retina display, still has glare and the price is wrong.

wolfpuppies3
Sep 7, 2012, 04:29 PM
The choice is easy - MB Air. You may run OS X as well as Windows operating systems and software. Try that on a Windows box. I too am bilingual and far prefer Mac OS X because it just works better than Windows.

Barna Biro
Sep 7, 2012, 04:48 PM
I don't see the MBP as a competitor, X1C and MBA are competitors but the MBP is not an ultrabook. Not too big on the retina display, still has glare and the price is wrong.

Read my reply carefully... I said 13" rMBP ( "r" for RETINA ). Of course the normal MBP is not a competitor. As I have already pointed out: The X1C is a direct competitor of the Air, BUT depending on how the 13" rMBP turns out, it might blow both the Air and X1C out of the water ( except if someone is really looking for ultra portability and doesn't care about the rest that much... even so, the 11" MBA or other smaller notebook might still be a better option over a 13" notebook - be it the 13" MBA or the X1C ).

Again, I personally prefer Mac over PC because of the OS ( this after using Windows for more than 15 years ). If eventually the people at Microsoft implement at least gestures and click on tap and notebooks start hitting the market with decent trackpads, I might consider switching back...

falterego
Sep 7, 2012, 06:11 PM
I actually had this same debate when shopping ultrabooks for work. From the Lenovo site it looks like only one model comes with 8GB of memory which we would need for some of the more demanding apps our users have. With that information and some of the other specs, I built the comparable MBA and priced all the options. In the end, the Lenovo wins out with vertical screen space, which is negated once you plug into an external monitor. Everything else seemed to be a draw or fell in the favor of the MBA.

seek3r
Sep 7, 2012, 07:11 PM
I actually had this same debate when shopping ultrabooks for work. From the Lenovo site it looks like only one model comes with 8GB of memory which we would need for some of the more demanding apps our users have. With that information and some of the other specs, I built the comparable MBA and priced all the options. In the end, the Lenovo wins out with vertical screen space, which is negated once you plug into an external monitor. Everything else seemed to be a draw or fell in the favor of the MBA.

The i7 in the MBA is most definitely *not* a quad.... Also, Lenovo's warranty is far better than applecare in what it will cover, though not in ease of using it (no Lenovo stores)

falterego
Sep 7, 2012, 08:27 PM
The i7 in the MBA is most definitely *not* a quad.... Also, Lenovo's warranty is far better than applecare in what it will cover, though not in ease of using it (no Lenovo stores)

You're right. Not sure where I read quad when I made that. That is my mistake.

That being said, I've had the opposite experience with the Lenovo warranty process. Having to wait for them to ship a box so that you can ship the computer, only to have them call 5 days later saying they don't see any problem with the computer and they're shipping it back as-is. We all know some problems don't present themselves on a predictable schedule, and the few minutes of testing they seem to put into their process doesn't come up with an answer. I'd much rather be able to walk into the Apple store with computer in hand and walk out with either a repair slip for the work to be done or a simple replacement system. Of course it is convenient that our LA and NY offices have an Apple store right across the street, but I haven't seen a Lenovo repair take less than a week, so even a long drive to a remote Apple store is worth the time for our needs.

case2001
Sep 7, 2012, 09:20 PM
You are in a Mac forum so you are going to get biased results. That being said, I have owned Thinkpads for years. I recently have bought a MacBook Pro and a MacBook Air 11". My Macs are every bit as well built as my Thinkpads. You can not go wrong with either. I prefer my MacBook Air over my Thinkpads. It has an edge in the build quality in my opinion. It is built like a tank, I like OS X and there is just something about the machined aluminum is just looks spectacular. I do miss Microsoft Access and still use my Thinkpads for that. Although, you could of course dual boot for Windows when needed.

Calot
Sep 7, 2012, 09:58 PM
It's a beautiful machine, no doubt about that.

But the price is crazy. It also does not perform as well as the i7 8GB 2012. That screen sure is nice, though.

entatlrg
Sep 7, 2012, 10:36 PM
It's a beautiful machine, no doubt about that.

But the price is crazy. It also does not perform as well as the i7 8GB 2012. That screen sure is nice, though.

No, the screen sucks, read the reviews, don't go by spec's on paper. Lenovo cannot get screens right, it's common knowledge and the reviews reflect this again in the X1C.

Screen is my only concern about the machine ... I'll know better when I receive mine around the end of the month, hope I'm proven wrong.

Listed prices are crazy, if you phone in, use coupon codes etc the price comes waaaay down. Check out notebookreview and you can get an idea of what people are paying. It's also a good read about how Lenovo totally screwed up the launch ... pre-orders started Aug 14 ... no one has received their notebooks yet and ship dates keep getting pushed back ... it's a mess with a ton of angry people cancelling orders and buying Air's or other ultrabooks instead....

Titanium81
Sep 7, 2012, 10:48 PM
Ive been eyeing the x1 carbon. it is a sweet machine. I try to remind myself that I already have a 2012 air and to not give in. I dont need more credit card debt thats for sure.

The 2012 MacBook Air is an AMAZING MACHINE! Handles everything that I throw at it with ease! :)

solsearchin
Sep 7, 2012, 11:24 PM
Both nice, really will come down to if you want osx or windows, I would also try out the track pad on the think pad, a lot of newer Lenovo's I've tried have horrible track pads.

Calot
Sep 7, 2012, 11:30 PM
No, the screen sucks, read the reviews, don't go by spec's on paper. Lenovo cannot get screens right, it's common knowledge and the reviews reflect this again in the X1C.

Screen is my only concern about the machine ... I'll know better when I receive mine around the end of the month, hope I'm proven wrong.

Listed prices are crazy, if you phone in, use coupon codes etc the price comes waaaay down. Check out notebookreview and you can get an idea of what people are paying. It's also a good read about how Lenovo totally screwed up the launch ... pre-orders started Aug 14 ... no one has received their notebooks yet and ship dates keep getting pushed back ... it's a mess with a ton of angry people cancelling orders and buying Air's or other ultrabooks instead....

My bad. I didn't know. As I have no intention of buying one, I only read a couple of reviews. They raved about the screen and the bigger size and matte finish.

I still think the Air is much nicer, even if it is cheaper.

robvas
Sep 8, 2012, 12:00 AM
I really like ThinkPads, always have. I wish Apple would pack a 12" screen in the 11" Air, and a 14" screen in the 13" Air - the bezel is huge! I know it won't ever happen, but Lenovo shows it's possible. Maybe for the Retina 13"....

I also wish they'd make a black Air, like the old black MacBooks.

DrumApple
Sep 8, 2012, 02:04 AM
If the Air had 1) A higher resolution matte screen (IPS would be amazing) 2) Microsoft OneNote, it would be a no brainer for me.

But X1C with another inch of screen real estate in a 13" chassis, and matte, means that it ultimately wins for what I'm looking for in a laptop. But it means I have to try it out first. Just because it wins on paper doesn't mean it's right for me :D

elppa
Sep 8, 2012, 05:45 AM
I don't see the MBP as a competitor, X1C and MBA are competitors but the MBP is not an ultrabook. Not too big on the retina display, still has glare and the price is wrong.

The 13" MBP will very much be an option to consider for those buyers looking at the X1 Carbon or the Air.

Unless Apple goes very wrong, it will be nearly as thin, nearly as light, but more powerful. Maybe a lot more powerful.

pinchez
Sep 8, 2012, 07:21 AM
I was considering one of these but decided to replace my mid 2010 13" MacBook Pro with a 11" MacBook Air i7, 8GB Ram, 256GB SSD. I think there's something very special about owning an Apple product that no other company can replicate . Specs, price, build quality, re-sale value and the ability to run both OSX and Windows 7 taken in to consideration I believe the Air is still the best :)

I do think Apple needs to come out with a new design, would have liked to have seen a MacBook Air in carbon with a more screen less bezel.

Thors.Hammer
Sep 8, 2012, 03:58 PM
It's too early to decide which is better. Lenovo started taking orders on 8/14 and just started shipping in the past few days. Let real customers beat on it for 3-6 months then you'll know how the X1 Carbon stands up. I don't think it's going to be the top dog. Lenovo failed to put a premium screen on the X1 Carbon so there's still room for another maker to really build an "Ultra" notebook.

Now if Apple would only announce a 13.3" Retina MacBook Air next week... :D

FluJunkie
Sep 8, 2012, 04:23 PM
The i7 in the MBA is most definitely *not* a quad.... Also, Lenovo's warranty is far better than applecare in what it will cover, though not in ease of using it (no Lenovo stores)

It should be noted that if you're at a university, many of their IT departments and the like count as Lenovo authorized service centers.

flyguy206
Sep 8, 2012, 05:24 PM
You can have the best of both worlds with The air.

DrumApple
Sep 8, 2012, 05:48 PM
You can have the best of both worlds with The air.

Software is only half of the equation... plus I'm not a big fan of dual booting or using virtualization software.

J&JPolangin
Sep 8, 2012, 11:14 PM
Software is only half of the equation... plus I'm not a big fan of dual booting or using virtualization software.

VM's do pretty much suck (using my Whitebook 5,2 with an SSD and 4Gb of 800 Mhz DDR2 RAM that was supposed to never be able to work in my model a generation of Whitebook before :apple: officially supported it) but using bootcamp winXP runs fine (although a little hotter than OSX)...so I wouldn't figure that win7 would have much trouble running off bootcamp either.

ixodes
Sep 9, 2012, 12:02 AM
Finally my BTO X1 Carbon was delivered yesterday.

ThinkPad X1 Carbon
Intel Core i7-3667U Processor
(4M Cache, up to 3.20 GHz)
Windows 7 Professional (64 bit)
14.0" Premium HD+ (1600x900) LED Backlit Display,
720p HD Camera, Mobile Broadband Equipped
8 GB PC3-10600 DDR3L SDRAM
1333MHz Memory (1 DIMM)
Keyboard (Backlit) US English
TrackPoint with Fingerprint Reader and Clickpad
256GB Solid State Drive

I'm very happy to report that the optional hi-res anti-glare display is 300 nits. Very bright, it's the brightest I've had on a ThinkPad. This is one gorgeous display. Compared side by side with the 15" IPS of my T60 it's so close to the same, I'm very surprised. the bottom line is upon ordering my only concern was the display. Now seeing it in person, that concern is gone.

Arriving at 9:45am yesterday I had the majority of the day to compare it to my much liked 2012 13" MBA. In real world use these two are very close. I was very happy to get Win 7 on the X1 as I've already got it optimized on my T430s so I knew how I wanted it.

After a full afternoon with these two, it really comes down to personal preference. It's a choice I'm lucky not to have to make.

I'll be enjoying them both for the foreseeable future.

DrumApple
Sep 9, 2012, 01:19 AM
Finally my BTO X1 Carbon was delivered yesterday.

ThinkPad X1 Carbon
Intel Core i7-3667U Processor
(4M Cache, up to 3.20 GHz)
Windows 7 Professional (64 bit)
14.0" Premium HD+ (1600x900) LED Backlit Display,
720p HD Camera, Mobile Broadband Equipped
8 GB PC3-10600 DDR3L SDRAM
1333MHz Memory (1 DIMM)
Keyboard (Backlit) US English
TrackPoint with Fingerprint Reader and Clickpad
256GB Solid State Drive

I'm very happy to report that the optional hi-res anti-glare display is 300 nits. Very bright, it's the brightest I've had on a ThinkPad. This is one gorgeous display. Compared side by side with the 15" IPS of my T60 it's so close to the same, I'm very surprised. the bottom line is upon ordering my only concern was the display. Now seeing it in person, that concern is gone.

Arriving at 9:45am yesterday I had the majority of the day to compare it to my much liked 2012 13" MBA. In real world use these two are very close. I was very happy to get Win 7 on the X1 as I've already got it optimized on my T430s so I knew how I wanted it.

After a full afternoon with these two, it really comes down to personal preference. It's a choice I'm lucky not to have to make.

I'll be enjoying them both for the foreseeable future.

How did you get the i7 + 8GB ram model? Lenovo has said that it wouldn't be available for at least a few weeks. Regardless, glad to hear you like the display, how's the trackpad perform compared to the MBA? And does the machine get hot?

Xikum
Sep 9, 2012, 04:12 AM
Finally my BTO X1 Carbon was delivered yesterday.

ThinkPad X1 Carbon
Intel Core i7-3667U Processor
(4M Cache, up to 3.20 GHz)
Windows 7 Professional (64 bit)
14.0" Premium HD+ (1600x900) LED Backlit Display,
720p HD Camera, Mobile Broadband Equipped
8 GB PC3-10600 DDR3L SDRAM
1333MHz Memory (1 DIMM)
Keyboard (Backlit) US English
TrackPoint with Fingerprint Reader and Clickpad
256GB Solid State Drive

I'm very happy to report that the optional hi-res anti-glare display is 300 nits. Very bright, it's the brightest I've had on a ThinkPad. This is one gorgeous display. Compared side by side with the 15" IPS of my T60 it's so close to the same, I'm very surprised. the bottom line is upon ordering my only concern was the display. Now seeing it in person, that concern is gone.

Arriving at 9:45am yesterday I had the majority of the day to compare it to my much liked 2012 13" MBA. In real world use these two are very close. I was very happy to get Win 7 on the X1 as I've already got it optimized on my T430s so I knew how I wanted it.

After a full afternoon with these two, it really comes down to personal preference. It's a choice I'm lucky not to have to make.

I'll be enjoying them both for the foreseeable future.

It sounds like a very good machine. Out of curiosity, what made you purchase a T430s, a 2012 MBA and an X1C?!

ixodes
Sep 9, 2012, 06:26 AM
It sounds like a very good machine. Out of curiosity, what made you purchase a T430s, a 2012 MBA and an X1C?!
I work in a cross platform R&D environment, I also travel internationally for work.

In addition I'm a complete addict when it comes to mobile computing & communications. I've used PowerBooks, MBP's, & ThinkPads concurrently for two decades.

The list of smartphones of various platforms is equally as numerous. The variety keeps things interesting.

I simply enjoy what I do & work to stay thoroughly current with the technology I use.

ixodes
Sep 9, 2012, 06:43 AM
How did you get the i7 + 8GB ram model? Lenovo has said that it wouldn't be available for at least a few weeks. Regardless, glad to hear you like the display, how's the trackpad perform compared to the MBA? And does the machine get hot?
I work for a multinational company that has been purchasing ThinkPads since they were first released. Therefore when I use that account I can get any ThinkPad configured anyway I wish. We get high priority consideration since we buy thousands of ThinkPads for our worldwide operations.

The trackpad is the best yet, for a ThinkPad, is nearly as good as the one on my Mac, sans Apples exemplary gestures.

In typical ThinkPad fashion, it runs very cool even after pushing it hard, due to their continued priority on thermal management. The Carbon Fiber Chassis is much better at dissipating heat as compared to aluminum.

Although close in weight, it feels light as a feather. Truly an amazing machine.

Brian Mage
Sep 9, 2012, 06:55 AM
There is another reason why someone should go for the Thinkpad over the MBA...

http://static.themetapicture.com/media/funny-Mac-vs-Windows-error.jpg

entatlrg
Sep 9, 2012, 08:23 AM
I work for a multinational company that has been purchasing ThinkPads since they were first released. Therefore when I use that account I can get any ThinkPad configured anyway I wish. We get high priority consideration since we buy thousands of ThinkPads for our worldwide operations.

The trackpad is the best yet, for a ThinkPad, is nearly as good as the one on my Mac, sans Apples exemplary gestures.

In typical ThinkPad fashion, it runs very cool even after pushing it hard, due to their continued priority on thermal management. The Carbon Fiber Chassis is much better at dissipating heat as compared to aluminum.

Although close in weight, it feels light as a feather. Truly an amazing machine.

You're the first one I've seen who's spoke positively on heat and thermal management. I wonder why so many reviews talk down on the display and heat/noise.

Of course I'll withhold judgement until I have mine in hand.

ixodes
Sep 9, 2012, 08:47 AM
You're the first one I've seen who's spoke positively on heat and thermal management. I wonder why so many reviews talk down on the display and heat/noise.
The standard display is rather dull, thus I agree with those who are critical of it. Conversely the hi-res display is wonderful.

Like anything else, the writer of the review may be biased against ThinkPads & feel compelled to complain about something, after all they're not all experts.

Nor do many of them know about, or pay attention to the years of innovation & refinement Lenovo has invested in thermal management for their top of the line T & X series ThinkPads.

As their business black form factor indicates, they've been focused on the corporate space since well back in the IBM days.

Finally ThinkPads are extremely unique in the fact that unlike the simplicity of Apple, Lenovo offers literally hundreds of widely different configurations in T series as just one example. All built using the same housing, they look identical on the outside yet are infinitely different on the inside.

mzjin
Sep 9, 2012, 08:59 AM
Get the Lenovo.

It's a far superior computer to the Macbook Air.

However, wait for a 13" Retina Macbook Pro, and then we'll talk then.

ixodes
Sep 9, 2012, 09:04 AM
Formerly known as TABOOK, the new list of Lenovo Laptops, are now called Personal Systems Reference (PSREF) sheets. If you read this page carefully you'll notice their list of models is so vast, each category, model line, and type has their own .PDF.

Available only to the corporate buyers for years, and now available publicly, the great majority are unaware of this resource.

Lenovo has a retail division that is completely separate & different from the corporate side.

I believe those who take the time to explore will be fascinated at the depth & breadth of Lenovo.

http://www.lenovo.com:80/psref/

hipnetic
Sep 9, 2012, 09:20 AM
I use to be a big-time Thinkpad fan and bought several models over the years. I loved the keyboard and trackpoint (eraser head). I'm a very fast touch-typist and the trackpoint was a must-have for me. At one point I became intrigued by the idea of getting a Macbook (so that I could delve into iOS programming), but the lack of the trackpoint held me back. I've found that people who aren't touch-typists and who have never used/appreciated a trackpoint just won't understand how great they are. I had tried using the touchpads on my Thinkpads a few times, just to see why people liked them, but I always hated it.

At one point, I was due for an upgrade at work, and went with a Dell that had a trackpoint (or some knock-off of the concept). It was horrible. Horrible keyboard, horrible "trackpoint" feel. And too big and heavy. I quickly swapped with someone else at work to go back to a Thinkpad.

Another year or so later I was due for an upgrade again (my laptop got broken), and several other people at work had already switched over to using Macbooks, so I decided to give it a shot and got a Macbook Air 13".

Well, I have to say that the Mac's touchpad was like a night-and-day difference between the old Thinkpad touchpads I had tried. First, it was much, much larger. Then there were the gestures. My Air has Parallels installed but I really only use it for doing some VPN/Remote Desktop needs where a couple of our clients don't support the VPN from the Mac-side.

I still miss the ability of keeping my hands on the keyboard and still moving the mouse around with the trackpoint, but I've mostly adjusted, and there are several other things that the touchpad allows me to easily do that couldn't be done with a trackpoint.

Anyways, sorry for the long diatribe, but I just wanted to highlight one really tempting feature of that Thinkpad that only some of us will appreciate. I see now, too, that these Thinkpads have much larger touchpads than the older Thinkpads had, so it may be the best of both worlds there.

That Thinkpad's larger, higher-resolution screen is also tempting. The glossy vs matte screen isn't a big deal for me, but I know that I prefer my Air's bright glossy screen to the never-bright-enough Thinkpad screens I've had in the past (it sounds like that's a non-issue with this Thinkpad).

One advantage to the Air, though, is that you have the option (for extra $$$) to buy/install Parallels and Windows, and be able to jump across as needed. With this Thinkpad, maybe you can turn it into a Hackintosh (?) but when I looked into that idea a long while back, it seemed like it required a lot of time and hacking to get right, and even then there would be certain hardware features that likely didn't have support. Plus, it's unsupported by Apple, and you probably couldn't stay as current with Mac OS software updates. If you have a need/desire to use Mac OS (e.g., iOS software development), that right there would be the biggest deal-killer with the Thinkpad.

Someone earlier mentioned heat being a possible issue (someone else later said that their Thinkpad Carbon didn't have any such issue). In any case, that would be something else I'd worry about. I seem to have a knack for hitting my 4GB RAM limit on my Air, and then the heat kicks up and fan gets going. It seems like I shouldn't be running into major memory issues, so maybe it's just because I hardly ever shut my Air down, and instead always just close the lid and let it go into sleep mode, so it probably just needs a more frequent reboot to clear RAM up? In any case, if I could have 8GB on my Air, I'd be happier. I literally use my Air as a "lap" top most of the time, so having a cool-running laptop is a must for me.

SoIsays
Sep 9, 2012, 10:06 AM
The Carbon Fiber Chassis is much better at dissipating heat as compared to aluminum.


That's a badass laptop that you own but I don't know if I can believe than carbon fiber dissipates heat better than aluminum. It's just cloth superheated and molded. I don't see how fiber conducts heat. There must be aluminum or some other material inside the chassis or more vents to push out heat.

ixodes
Sep 9, 2012, 11:06 AM
That's a badass laptop that you own but I don't know if I can believe than carbon fiber dissipates heat better than aluminum. It's just cloth superheated and molded. I don't see how fiber conducts heat. There must be aluminum or some other material inside the chassis or more vents to push out heat.

I would encourage you to learn what carbon fiber is before jumping to an erroneous conclusion. It's superior ability to dissipate heat is the very reason the brake rotors on formula one racers are made solely from carbon fiber. That is but one small example of the thousands of applications.

Furthermore like other materials there are many grades & compositions. True high grade Carbon Fibre (as it's spelled in the UK) is very expensive. Lesser grades that barely qualify as carbon fiber are devoid of it's advantages.

Cheap imitations are everywhere due to the popularity of it's appearance. in fact it's been estimated that 81% percent of aftermarket accessories in the automotive industry are either fakes or substandard grade material.

yourtoys7
Sep 9, 2012, 06:49 PM
I got the Spectre XT and the funny thing is, everyone at first glance thinks its a macbook air :rolleyes:. Thinkpad is a bom... I'm thinking about returning hp' for this one, for less money after student discount its a much better laptop for those that really want Windows.

SoIsays
Sep 9, 2012, 07:30 PM
I would encourage you to learn what carbon fiber is before jumping to an erroneous conclusion. It's superior ability to dissipate heat is the very reason the brake rotors on formula one racers are made solely from carbon fiber. That is but one small example of the thousands of applications.

Furthermore like other materials there are many grades & compositions. True high grade Carbon Fibre (as it's spelled in the UK) is very expensive. Lesser grades that barely qualify as carbon fiber are devoid of it's advantages.

Cheap imitations are everywhere due to the popularity of it's appearance. in fact it's been estimated that 81% percent of aftermarket accessories in the automotive industry are either fakes or substandard grade material.

Your general statements about carbon's use in extreme applications like motogp and f1 is ok but I don't believe that Lenovo would invest in a legit carbon-carbon chassis for a limited production. It's likely they used an economical grade of carbon versus the latest found in racing.

terraphantm
Sep 9, 2012, 07:45 PM
The Carbon looks nice, especially the larger display. The keyboards are probably about the same. I don't know how good the trackpad is, and in my opinion the trackpad is one of the best things about Apple laptops.

Something else interesting is that the only way to get 8GB RAM on the Carbon is to order the $1679 model. With the Air you can choose that option even on the base model.

I don't know about the X1, but generally think pad keyboards are the best I've used. I much prefer them to Apple keyboards. The apples have much better trackpads though

----------

I would encourage you to learn what carbon fiber is before jumping to an erroneous conclusion. It's superior ability to dissipate heat is the very reason the brake rotors on formula one racers are made solely from carbon fiber. That is but one small example of the thousands of applications.

Furthermore like other materials there are many grades & compositions. True high grade Carbon Fibre (as it's spelled in the UK) is very expensive. Lesser grades that barely qualify as carbon fiber are devoid of it's advantages.

Cheap imitations are everywhere due to the popularity of it's appearance. in fact it's been estimated that 81% percent of aftermarket accessories in the automotive industry are either fakes or substandard grade material.

Carbon fiber reinforced polymers are not the same as carbon fiber reinforced ceramics. The ceramic is what lends to the extreme heat tolerances

Stetrain
Sep 9, 2012, 08:13 PM
I don't know about the X1, but generally think pad keyboards are the best I've used. I much prefer them to Apple keyboards. The apples have much better trackpads though

The newer Thinkpads have switched to the chiclet/island style keyboard, very similar to that used on the Macbook line. They may still use higher quality switch mechanisms, not sure.

DVD9
Sep 9, 2012, 09:40 PM
The Samsung Series 9 13" model has a 1600x900 PLS screen that is matte and 400 nits bright. Someone on YouTube unboxed two of them this year and he makes the trackpad look usable. Looks great too. When I saw the Retina Pro I thought it looked like a silver Series 9.

Definitely wait to see if the 13" Retina appears though. If it does it will have all of these machines beat.

DrumApple
Sep 10, 2012, 12:10 AM
The Samsung Series 9 13" model has a 1600x900 PLS screen that is matte and 400 nits bright. Someone on YouTube unboxed two of them this year and he makes the trackpad look usable. Looks great too. When I saw the Retina Pro I thought it looked like a silver Series 9.

Definitely wait to see if the 13" Retina appears though. If it does it will have all of these machines beat.

Yeah I considered the new Series 9 also, but ultimately decided against it. I tried it in person at the Microsoft Store and the screen is flawless on the 13" model, really gorgeous- puts the MBA to shame quite honestly. It's also thinner and lighter. However, the keyboard feels terrible- very shallow, the trackpad seemed really good but not perfect, and the configurations it comes in weren't very good, there was no i7, 256gb, 8gb ram options. Only comes in i5, 128gb, 4gb which was the main dealbreaker for me. Very nice looking machine though, especially the screen (go figure with Samsung making some killer hdtvs etc.). It's also quite pricey, especially for what you get.

DFTU101
Sep 10, 2012, 07:44 AM
If you don't mind responding, how does the screen of the X1C compare to your MBA screen. Especially in terms of resolution and brightness.

yourtoys7
Sep 22, 2012, 08:18 AM
What air has going for it is the option to upgrade on models to 8gb ram which some don't have at all, some only on loaded model. Price as well, for the most part.

entatlrg
Sep 23, 2012, 12:25 AM
After Lenovo's much botched intro of the X1C people are finally starting to receive their notebooks ordered in mid-August.

If you search and read end user reviews and comments it confirms the X1c display is poor with their famous dull 'screen door effect' low quality panels, heat is fair, fan noise loud, even at idle.

Numerous owners have returned their X1's, some mention considering the Air, many others have sent their brand new notebooks in for repair due to QC issues.

For a touted 20th anniversary notebook there's a lot of unhappy people.

DrumApple
Sep 23, 2012, 12:29 AM
After Lenovo's much botched intro of the X1C people are finally starting to receive their notebooks ordered in mid-August.

If you search and read end user reviews and comments it confirms the X1c display is poor with their famous dull 'screen door effect' low quality panels, heat is fair, fan noise loud, even at idle.

Numerous owners have returned their X1's, some mention considering the Air, many others have sent their brand new notebooks in for repair due to QC issues.

For a touted 20th anniversary notebook there's a lot of unhappy people.

Interesting. I've read probably every review and watched every video of the thing and the screen looks good and it's gotten high marks across the board. The screen looks better than the Air's. Maybe it's just a bad early batch. Just like in the auto industry, the first year of a new model/body style there's usually problems to work out.

I won't buy an X1C until I test it in person though, still haven't figured out how/where I can get my hands on one since they don't seem to sell them in stores.

entatlrg
Sep 23, 2012, 12:35 AM
Read the comments on notebookreview

stylinexpat
Sep 23, 2012, 01:45 AM
Read the comments on notebookreview

The comments after a review are very important if you ask me as they cover issues that may have been missed by the person doing the review and issues that were probably not mentioned on purpose. One also gets more points of view from others that may already have that machine being reviewed.

DrumApple
Sep 23, 2012, 01:04 PM
After reading many of the user reviews it sounds like it's the luck of the draw with the X1C right now. Some are arriving with defects, some are arriving perfect. There's going to be lemons... it's a bit alarming some are accusing Lenovo of providing specially prepped machines to review outlets though.

I'm waiting for an i7 + 8gb model, rumored to be out next month. Hopefully they'll get rid of all the bad apples by then (no pun intended).