10.2.3 and iChat

[MacRumors]

Spymac reports (http://www.spymac.com/comments.php?id=289_0_5_0_C) that the next minor revision of Mac OS X -- 10.2.3 -- is just around the corner and should be expected in the December/Jan timeframe.

iChat is expected to be updated with this revision.

Previous rumors had suggested possible ICQ integration in the future.

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by Macrumors
Previous rumors had suggested possible ICQ integration in the future.
That's great and all, but all I want is MSN....pleeeeease iChat developers! :p

[eyelikeart]

from what I've heard & seen...iChat needs some SERIOUS work... ;)

[stefman]

ICQ integration would actually allow me to finally use iChat since I have no AIM buddies...poor me!

[dethl]

I have 3 different messenger programs, MSN, Yahoo, and ICQ, if iChat can reduce the number of individual programs I have to run to chat to all of my buddies, more power to them!

I really want Mail to be redone.....it doesn't retrieve all messages when I try to connect to gamebox.net's POP server...I have to use outlook express to get anything mail missed

[biscuit]

If you want a good multi-service IM Client right now, try Proteus (http://www.indigofield.com/) . I've been using it since version 1.4 and it really is good. Version 2.2 is currently at a stable alpha version which I use daily with no problems. Take a look at the user forums on the site for more info.

biscuit

[dricci]

I use iChat now and have no problems, and it seems 10.2.2 fixed some stuff for people who were having problems. AOL is in the process of merging the AOL and ICQ databases now.. Windows AIM beta testers can already talk to ICQ users, so it won't be long before iChat does... I really want to see video and voice chat (using mpeg-4 and aac). Don't count on seeing other services like MSN or Yahoo until everybody decides on a standard instant messaging protocol (which won't happen for many many more years).

[ryan]

Originally posted by Macrumors
Previous rumors had suggested possible ICQ integration in the future.
AOL will be enabling ICQ support into AIM so it makes sense that iChat, which uses the AIM network, will also gain access to ICQ.

[york2600]

AOL and ICQ both run the same AOL server software. You can even IM back and forth (kinda) in current clients. It's a simple flip of the switch (well not really SIMPLE) that would allow these two client types to communicate with each other. It looks like AOL is finally getting around to linking this as the politics around unified messaging have died down a bit. It shouldn't be too hard to Apple to accomodate ICQ users since they're already compatible with the new (2000+) AIM protocol which is the same (except for one field) as the new (2000+) ICQ protocol.

[ChillieMacX]

Apple needs to enable the ability to join AIM/AOL Chat rooms BY Interest (Local, Politics, Computers, Movies, Singles, etc.).

Right now you can't use it to chat to people based on interest, only if you alreadsy know them and have them as Buddies or know their AIM/.mac name. This is a big feature!

That and stability are the main things that NEED to be addressed.

A feature that would be nice is autochat window resizing/tiling...
you have a chat window open taking up half your screen. You either initiate or are asked to chat with 3 other people. The chat windows would resize themselves and lay out side by side automatically.

Another useability enhancement might allow chat balloons to be seen from the Dock if the chat windows are minimized...just Buddy icons talking to you like Desktop cartoon characters!

What do you guys think?

[michaelrjohnson]

By now, most of us are aware that there are programs out there (my personal favorite, Fire, Proteus, and other smaller ones) that run several chat protocols simultaneously and seamlessly. I used Fire for AIM, ICQ, MSN, and Yahoo at the same time, i never had any troubles. I understand there may be some legality issues behind it, but why doesn't Apple just incorporate the same types of software into iChat. I'm not saying Apple buy the software (that would piss a lot of people off), or just copy it (ahem, Watson?), but the technology to incorporate the services in a single app must be common knowledge (or why would more than one app have the ability). I sent a similar message to Apple using their Feedback system, hoping, PRAYING that they incorporate a generic MSN protocol. I used Fire for a year, but I love iChat, so I use that and struggle with a crappy MS made MSN client. This idea just makes sense, I think they should do it.

BTW- I would really like to see the ability to filetransfer in MSN too...

[stewartv]

I think is important for everyone to know about a much bigger problem than IChat updates. In the Professional video community Jaguar and Final Cut Pro 3.02 is a nonrunning Joke, I think Apple needs to address this problem much sooner than Ichat or minor improvements, There are tons of people buying new 1.25 Dual Systems with full editing packages, I included, that cant even start working on their video projects without the Final Cut Program crashing every time you make a change....The video market is where apple is trying to gain some ground and they are apparently doing nothing to help with the flawed software.. I have provided a link for those interested to check out the lack of support Apple is providing for their Final Cut Pro community....Check it out!!!!
http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?50@88.f9s2aCYddz9.0@.3bbbd650
or
http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX/finalcutpro

[totally_fly]

iChat has the most annoying interface in the world.. guys, use Proteus

http://www.indigofield.com

i suggest looking at the latest alpha.. it's pretty astonishing...

(Proteus supports ICQ, MSN, Yahoo, Jabber, and other services)

It is also very fast on my 733 G4. Give it a peek.

[nickmcghie]

Originally posted by ChillieMacX
Another useability enhancement might allow chat balloons to be seen from the Dock if the chat windows are minimized...just Buddy icons talking to you like Desktop cartoon characters!

What do you guys think?

yea.. now there's a cool idea :)

[springscansing]

If all you need is AIM, Adium kicks the crap out of iChat, and also is better than Proteus (in my opinion).

[e-coli]

Spymac
As more information becomes available, it appears that the primary purpose of 10.2.3 is to support new, currently unknown Apple technology.

Translation:
"Updates firmware to disable OS 9 booting"

[FaasNat]

Does anyone know if there are plans to incorporate buddy groups in iChat's buddy list?

[FooDragon]

I don't know why anybody puts up with ichat in it's current state, and even from were it looks to be going. It seems just because it comes from apple and it has an i in front of it, it's gotta be good, and better then anything out there. There are so many things that are just wrong with ichat, like no buddly lists. Why get rid of such an essential feature to enable people to organize their buddy list. With ichat it's all just one big mess. I can't have a group of people that, say I talk to the most often, no, now I have to scroll all up and down the list. I don't know about you, but for me it doesn't show people's away messages correctly all the time. Say if they're idle and away, it'll will just say idle, no message. Another annoying "feature" is being forced to use people's actually names instead of their aim name if you have them in your address book. Sure some people may like this, and it would be great, if they let you choose this as an option instead of forcing it down your throat. I think ichat does have one good feature, rendezvous. I don't use it, but seems like it would be a usefull feature in an busniess setting, or maybe even at a lan party. For me, I think the best aim client out there is adium www.adiumx.com it's got a superb UI, something that ichat should take note of. While it may be laking features like file transfer, or buddy icons, thats more of aol not having an open standard then not implenting it.

[MacSlut]

Originally posted by e-coli


Translation:
"Updates firmware to disable OS 9 booting"

That's never going to happen. Everyone, all together now...

OS 9 is never going to disabled. What is expected to happen is Apple will no longer support OS 9 in models that come out after the end of 2002.

This means no ROM support, no system enablers, no development whatsoever to allow OS 9 to boot a new model Mac from Apple. I wouldn't expect 3rd party support either, but it could happen (at least it would be technically possible).

And now back to the thread...
I use Proteus and wish Apple would buy it and make it the new iChat. What's the point of having a chat client, when you have to use another one for a different service if the second client speaks both?

[reyesmac]

Don't hold your breath for Apple to create a free application that does all things for all people. All their iApps do only ONE thing, and it does it well. iChat will only be good enough to send a message with a person on AOL or another iChatter. It does not have to have all the features that the other clients have, it only needs to offer the ability to communicate text between people. It will never be good enough for everyone but only an introduction to the power of the Macintosh.
If Apple wanted to impress more people, but also raise their support costs, they could include a better 3rd party application that would be much better than iChat. But that would raise support costs and I think that is the reason why all these iApps are so simple and unflexible, because it would bring with it more problems.
I just wish they gave us hardware upgrades as much as they give us software upgrades, thats all we really need. The Mac OS used to be crashy and that was the main reason we needed updates before, but we put up with it. Now that the OS doesnt crash, all we need is faster hardware.

[gandalf55]

Man...

iChat... it came with OSX.2 Jaguar... so you paid for it, but it's kinda free.

I use Proteus 2.2 a11 and it rocks!! you can theme it, change soundsets, have it speak, does MSN, Jabber, ICQ, etc. It's shareware but it's free.

Bottom line: if you don't like iChat, don't use it. Use something else. That's what I am doing. If Apple releases an iChat update that's better than Proteus, I'll use it. But I'm not gonna bitch and moan about the state of iChat today. It would be nice if it worked better - and I'm sure sometime soon it will.

You are allowed to use non-Apple apps. Try some & find one you like.

I'm more concerned about what else besides a possible iChat 10.2.3 might bring to us.

[guifa]

Originally posted by gandalf55
I use Proteus 2.2 a11 and it rocks!! you can theme it, change soundsets, have it speak, does MSN, Jabber, ICQ, etc. It's shareware but it's free.

Don't support that program. Its author knows it's illegally made and does nothing about it. He profits off of others' works without giving credit and as a result obviously does not know how to read licenses. You never know what he might misread next--perhaps your credit card while paying for it--and what effect it will have on you or others--perhaps being overcharged by $100.

Plus, Proteus doesn't even have AIM file transfer, what a joke.

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by e-coli


Translation:
"Updates firmware to disable OS 9 booting"

Well said, but only for newer machines. They won't bother with updating the firmware on older models. It's not worth the effort to possibly introduce new incosistencies and create more work for themselves.

[Biggles]

has adium been able to show away messages yet? that's the only thing holding me back from it. My friends and i use AIM as more or less a constantly updated anwsering machine with recent info on our whereabouts.....i need to view away messages and i'd rather use adium than iChat/official AIM

[Choppaface]

Originally posted by MacSlut

This means no ROM support, no system enablers,

but could OS9 booting be enabled with a hack of somesort then?

[guifa]

Originally posted by Biggles
has adium been able to show away messages yet? that's the only thing holding me back from it. My friends and i use AIM as more or less a constantly updated anwsering machine with recent info on our whereabouts.....i need to view away messages and i'd rather use adium than iChat/official AIM
I think I remember reading it could. Fire should be able to soon. Proteus' backend does not allow for it as far as I know.

[iMac]

Whereas I am an impatient person, I don't see how you can say that DEC/JAN is soon... December's beginning maybe, but for some people, a month can feel like eternity! iChat, however, needs some improvements MAJOR! You can't even warn people, but I haven't seen anybody complain about that yet.

[8thDegreeSavage]

Alli want is for them to incorporate Texture compression within Jag and update the ATI and Nvidia drivers.....please apple.....please.

[j763]

re OS 9 booting...

Let's get this straight. What's happening is that they are not going to ship the OS 9 cd with Macs after Jan 1, 2003. As they update macs after 2003, they aren't going to add the necessary motherboard support.

Simple. They're not doing anything with OS 9. That's why it's not going to work :)

[Bear]

Originally posted by Choppaface


but could OS9 booting be enabled with a hack of somesort then?

I doubt it. You want to be able to boot into OS 9, get a current Mac.

If all you care about is classic mode, the last statement from Apple is that the new Macs would have classic mode.

[iMac]

I hate OS 9! Will there be a way to completely disable it on the older computers... like the iMac G4 15"? And, let's delete it while we're at it! I'm sorry, but it's time for little Mr. Smiley Mac to go!

[springscansing]

Originally posted by stewartv
I think is important for everyone to know about a much bigger problem than IChat updates. In the Professional video community Jaguar and Final Cut Pro 3.02 is a nonrunning Joke, I think Apple needs to address this problem much sooner than Ichat or minor improvements, There are tons of people buying new 1.25 Dual Systems with full editing packages, I included, that cant even start working on their video projects without the Final Cut Program crashing every time you make a change....The video market is where apple is trying to gain some ground and they are apparently doing nothing to help with the flawed software.. I have provided a link for those interested to check out the lack of support Apple is providing for their Final Cut Pro community....Check it out!!!!
http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?50@88.f9s2aCYddz9.0@.3bbbd650
or
http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX/finalcutpro

You're exactly right. Who cares about iChat anyway?

[impierced]

Originally posted by springscansing


You're exactly right. Who cares about iChat anyway?

iChat ... pronounced iSchat

[iMac]

Okay, that ischat thing went over my head, but I think that we need a major revision with the following:

•Profile Capabilities
•Warning Capabilities
•Buddy List Categories
•Visible Rate Limit
•More compatiable Interface, in general
•Ability to view your and others stats and warning levels
•WAY BETTER VIEWING OF OTHER PEOPLE'S PROFILES

OH.. ISCHAT I GET IT LOL!

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by MacSlut


That's never going to happen. Everyone, all together now...

OS 9 is never going to disabled. What is expected to happen is Apple will no longer support OS 9 in models that come out after the end of 2002.

This means no ROM support, no system enablers, no development whatsoever to allow OS 9 to boot a new model Mac from Apple. I wouldn't expect 3rd party support either, but it could happen (at least it would be technically possible).


Actually, to me it seems to be now, without any tinkering with the firmware itself. I cannot boot into the version of 9.2.2 that loaded with Jaguar and get anything but a frozen mouse. I can boot 9.2.1 and 9.1 which I still use as my classic from X. But why boot into 9 at all? Because I can't install my epson printer drivers into classic from X, and my classic apps still need them.


And now back to the thread...
I use Proteus and wish Apple would buy it and make it the new iChat. What's the point of having a chat client, when you have to use another one for a different service if the second client speaks both?

Unfortunately, it is probably about business deals, getting help with Chimera code fora browser, a new version of AOL, you kiss AOLs butt for awhile until they are up to speed, so they will fill special and do things for you. Then you improve the ichat client to be more universal at a time where they are two involved to throw a hissy and refuse to play ball.

Think of how useful Yahoo was, how many people used it as their home page search engine, until they wanted to be everything for everyone, and people merely started using google instead.

[guifa]

Originally posted by michaelrjohnson
By now, most of us are aware that there are programs out there (my personal favorite, Fire, Proteus, and other smaller ones) that run several chat protocols simultaneously and seamlessly. I used Fire for AIM, ICQ, MSN, and Yahoo at the same time, i never had any troubles. I understand there may be some legality issues behind it, but why doesn't Apple just incorporate the same types of software into iChat. I'm not saying Apple buy the software (that would piss a lot of people off), or just copy it (ahem, Watson?), but the technology to incorporate the services in a single app must be common knowledge (or why would more than one app have the ability). I sent a similar message to Apple using their Feedback system, hoping, PRAYING that they incorporate a generic MSN protocol. I used Fire for a year, but I love iChat, so I use that and struggle with a crappy MS made MSN client. This idea just makes sense, I think they should do it.

BTW- I would really like to see the ability to filetransfer in MSN too...

Just a side note here. There would be no problem implementing features of Fire into iChat, as Fire is released under the GPL and completely open-sourced. Apple would just have to open-source iChat to do so (something OTHER programs haven't figured out *cough*). And...Apple already has at least one of the Fire developers.

BTW- File transfer in MSN is coming in the next version of Fire, as well as AIM two-way. (It's already on the SourceForge CVS builds)

[guifa]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter

Unfortunately, it is probably about business deals
(with reference to buying out Proteus)

Indeed. It would not be a very good thing for Apple to purchase illegally made software, unless they made it legal (open-sourced it completely)

[wHo_tHe]

Rather than ICQ, which is clearly yesterday's IM protocol, I'd like to see Jabber integration with the next iChat, plus one more thing: An Apple-branded Jabber server so I can run a private IM server for my company.

Jabber is XML-based and is open technology, and it can in turn use gateways to provide seamless access to MSN and AOL. I'd like to think it's the future of instant messaging. :)

[Foocha]

I can't see Apple risking the introduction of an upgrade that limits the functionality of legacy Macs by preventing booting into OS 9 - the system that many of these Macs shipped running.

Can you imagine the risk on the part of Apple in doing this - think of all the people whose firmware update goes wrong...

[JtheLemur]

Adium does everything BUT file transfers, and that's coming soon. Away messages, buddy groups, chat, etc. It's the best!

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by JtheLemur
Adium does everything BUT file transfers, and that's coming soon. Away messages, buddy groups, chat, etc. It's the best!

I find it unusual that neither Adium nor Proteus seem to hype the fact that they are able to link to several competing Instant Messaging standards simultaneously, although I would figure that is the exact reason most are downloading them.

[guifa]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter

I find it unusual that neither Adium nor Proteus seem to hype the fact that they are able to link to several competing Instant Messaging standards simultaneously, although I would figure that is the exact reason most are downloading them.

Adium only connects to the AOL IM network, but does a damned good job of it.

[Spanky]

The main thing I hope they will fix is Mail. Ever since the 10.2.2 update, I have been getting mysterious messages about my mailbox being locked, and my messages get duplicated. I just now lost all the messages in my Inbox - not a big deal this time, but if this happens again when I have important mail waiting I will be pretty upset.

I wish I could downgrade to 10.2.1.