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VanMac
Aug 16, 2005, 09:13 AM
Hey.

Just started pulling some video from miniDV to my new iBook. Started mucking around with iMovie. Nice, although I'm having trouble adding titles.

Anywho, this got me to thinking of if I should bother working with iMovie, or purchasing Final Cut Express HD, or pro, or whatever.

Basically I will mostly be doing home movies, creating dvds, and giving them as gifts. This may evolve into something more...

I dont think I need the power of FCP, but who knows. I'm kinda more concerned with the maximizing my effort in learning a tool that will be a valuable skill set, as well as getting some expanded funtionality out of the tool.

Your thoughts and advice are appreciated.



liketom
Aug 16, 2005, 09:18 AM
start with iMovie - once you have progressed on to a point where you can only do so much with it then move up to FCE or FCP

iMovie is easy to use and very quick at results - FCE/FCP are harder to learn

also depending on you memory in your iBook ...FCE/FCP need 512mb min i think 768+ is recommended

happy editing! :)

edit: oops seen that you have 1.5GB lol PLENTY OF RAM

crdean1
Aug 16, 2005, 09:23 AM
I bought my pb in Feb. and was using iMovie for a while. I wanted to do more with the titles, like add a full page of text, moving text, etc. to my home movies, so I bought Final Cut Express (student discount is great). It took a small learning curve for a few days, but I love it. It is much more precise, and the "Live Type" that comes with it is amazing. It's all for titles, etc. 9GB of stuff to mess with. What's great about that is you don't have to install all 9GB, only what you want or as needed.

I have not used FCP so I can't comment on that. However, I made a video for my wife to speak in front of 250 people, and the organizers thought it was professionally done (It was my first video with FCE).

crdean1
Aug 16, 2005, 09:24 AM
start with iMovie - once you have progressed on to a point where you can only do so much with it then move up to FCE or FCP

iMovie is easy to use and very quick at results - FCE/FCP are harder to learn

also depending on you memory in your iBook ...FCE/FCP need 512mb min i think 768+ is recommended

happy editing! :)

edit: oops seen that you have 1.5GB lol PLENTY OF RAM


I agree...iMovie gave me a good foundation and I learned some good basics. I am glad I didn't start out with FCE, the learning curve would have been harder.

Mydriasis
Aug 16, 2005, 02:12 PM
I really dont think the learning curve is any better in iMovie than FCP. The basics are very easy to learn (in FCP), learning about ALL the features takes time and alot of practice (but if you need those then your spending enough time with FCP anyways). So the question should not be: what am I able to learn (I really think you can handel FCP), but rather how much money do I want to spend?

I think iMovie is an awesome program and perfect for exactly what you want. Thats what it was designed to do, plus it fits in so nicely with the other iLife apps. Play around with it for a while, and if you decide that you want to get the most out of your video than decide how big your buget is.

Learning how to shoot good video and then being creative with it is much more important than having the biggest baddest App.

Have fun

Espnetboy3
Aug 16, 2005, 05:39 PM
For what you will be doing it for then imovie and some nice plugins are more than enough. There are a ton of posts on this topic. Someone asks this question once a week check out some other posts on it. It seems like people just have a grand to throw around on something they are just starting as a hobby its kind of funny.

Cooknn
Aug 16, 2005, 06:32 PM
start with iMovie - once you have progressed on to a point where you can only do so much with it then move up to FCE or FCPI did just that - and had a hard time unlearning things that I did in iMovie that were completely different in FCE, ie. Transitions. I would recommend starting with FCE since you will find shortly that iMovie does not offer enough freedom for you to do the things you'll want to do with your movies :cool:

DeSnousa
Aug 16, 2005, 06:39 PM
Another Question :)

I might be planning on going on to learn video editing, what do you guys think will do for software. While i would love to get FCP the price is putting me of for the time being, do you think FCE has enough power for the needs of learning editing.

Thanks for your help :)

LethalWolfe
Aug 16, 2005, 09:56 PM
Another Question :)

I might be planning on going on to learn video editing, what do you guys think will do for software. While i would love to get FCP the price is putting me of for the time being, do you think FCE has enough power for the needs of learning editing.

Thanks for your help :)

Use iMovie. Editing is about storytelling. It's about tempo, beat, and rhythm. It should be transparent. If no one notices your editing you've done a good job. Grab some books on editing theory ("In the Blink of an Eye" is an excellent one) and go from there. If you feel like you've mastered the fundamentals iMovie has to offer then going up to FCE HD would be a good next step. I'd say 99% of the differences between FCE and FCP only really matter to pros.

A growing problem I see (and I'm not that old) is that people buy FCP or Avid DV, learn how to use them and assume they can edit. But they can't, they never learned how. Knowing how to edit is not the same as knowing how to operate an editing tool.

/soapbox.


Lethal

Heb1228
Aug 16, 2005, 10:03 PM
If you think you're going to get into a fair amount of video editing, you'll be better off starting with FCE. Thats how I started. Moving to FCP afterward is very easy, they are the same program in many ways.

FCE is a great deal too since they started including LiveType and Soundtrack.

The thing about iMovie is that if you spend your time learning it now, when you decide you need to move up, you'll basically be starting back from square one learning a new program. From FCE you move up easily to the most powerful video editing program available.

Lacero
Aug 16, 2005, 10:05 PM
Go straight to Final Cut Pro. Its pointless wasting your time learning iMovie if you don't think of sticking with it. Forget FCE because the workflow and methodology are exactly the same as FCP but you get more restrictions, like mixed media timelines and no timecode.

Heb1228
Aug 16, 2005, 10:09 PM
Go straight to Final Cut Pro. Its pointless wasting your time learning iMovie if you don't think of sticking with it. Forget FCE because the workflow and methodology are exactly the same as FCP but you get more restrictions, like mixed media timelines and no timecode.
Hey, if you can afford it go ahead! I just recommended FCE cause I thought oyu might be on a budget. :D

LethalWolfe
Aug 16, 2005, 10:20 PM
From FCE you move up easily to the most powerful video editing program available.
:rolleyes:

FCP is many things, but let's not go overboard here.


Lethal

Lacero
Aug 16, 2005, 10:22 PM
FCP is many things, but let's not go overboard hereWhat would you consider the most powerful software editing program, lethal wolfe?

LethalWolfe
Aug 16, 2005, 10:45 PM
What would you consider the most powerful software editing program, lethal wolfe?

Thanks for putting my name in bold. I probably wouldn't have noticed your post other wise...

Although I find the interface to be clunky Avid is still the industry leader for a reason. Check out their Nitris systems. And Avid still has a leg up on media management as well as some other "under the hood" aspects of an NLE.

FCP's most compelling feature is it's price. It's so cheap you can't afford not to consider it if you are a business looking at an NLE. If FCP was more expensive people would be less accepting of it's short comings.

I've used both Avid and FCP rather extensively, and while I prefer FCP there are things that Avid does better. Calling FCP the most powerful NLE out there is nothing but ignorant fanboyism.


Lethal

eXan
Aug 16, 2005, 10:58 PM
Start with iMovie, then move on to FCE or FCP. Thats what I did. I started with iMovie then moved to FCP and i'm using it all the time now. Note that FCP is pretty hard program. Basic tasks are pretty easy, but advanced takes at lot of time to learn. Some things are so much more difficult to make with FCP than with iMovie (like good titles) that I sometimes think of going back to iMovie. And no, I dont have LiveType.

LethalWolfe
Aug 16, 2005, 11:04 PM
Start with iMovie, then move on to FCE or FCP. Thats what I did. I started with iMovie then moved to FCP and i'm using it all the time now. Note that FCP is pretty hard program. Basic tasks are pretty easy, but advanced takes at lot of time to learn. Some things are so much more difficult to make with FCP than with iMovie (like good titles) that I sometimes think of going back to iMovie. And no, I dont have LiveType.


When doing titles are you using "title 3d" from the drop down list? If not I would suggest using it instead of FCP's "standard" title tool. Title 3D is a little app by Boris that runs w/in FCP. I don't remember if it installs by default or not though so if you don't see it you can go back to your FCP install discs and install it.


Lethal

DeSnousa
Aug 17, 2005, 05:02 PM
Thanks for all your replies :)

I realise editing is an art more than a tool to learn. Its just ive been editing lots of projects lately and im becoming tiresome of iMovie's features. I feel that i can't get what i imagine into the end project some times. Also like i mentioned i have high hopes on going to school to learn film and such i don't think iMovie would be standard.

Ill just nag now cause im a nagger :p Ive been working on 2 school projects, one a football tournament the other our school's annual fashion parade. On top of that i have been making a short documentary on the site seeing around my home. One amazing thing about editing is that you don't realise the shots that are needed until you begin to edit. Ive gone and re-shoot and i getting better at realise what footage to capture.

xsedrinam
Aug 17, 2005, 05:27 PM
When doing titles are you using "title 3d" from the drop down list? If not I would suggest using it instead of FCP's "standard" title tool. Title 3D is a little app by Boris that runs w/in FCP. I don't remember if it installs by default or not though so if you don't see it you can go back to your FCP install discs and install it.


Lethal
Title 3D makes a big difference in Title renders. I may be mistaken, but don't both Title 3D and LiveType install with FCP HD and above? The ProSeries install is on a separate DVD, if I recall.
X

LethalWolfe
Aug 17, 2005, 06:46 PM
Thanks for all your replies :)

I realise editing is an art more than a tool to learn. Its just ive been editing lots of projects lately and im becoming tiresome of iMovie's features. I feel that i can't get what i imagine into the end project some times. Also like i mentioned i have high hopes on going to school to learn film and such i don't think iMovie would be standard.
Like I said before, if you feel like you've maxed out iMovie then move on. I'll doubt you'll miss the features that FCP has that FCE does not.

Ill just nag now cause im a nagger :p Ive been working on 2 school projects, one a football tournament the other our school's annual fashion parade. On top of that i have been making a short documentary on the site seeing around my home. One amazing thing about editing is that you don't realise the shots that are needed until you begin to edit. Ive gone and re-shoot and i getting better at realise what footage to capture.
Documentaries especially you don't truly know what you have until you sit down in the edit bay, but as you get more experience you'll be able to better visualize the story in your mind as you are shooting so you won't have to go back for re-shoots as often.


Lethal

MovieCutter
Aug 18, 2005, 08:54 AM
What would you consider the most powerful software editing program, lethal wolfe?


<<breathing heavily>>"You don't know the POWER of the Avid DS Nitris suite"<<continues breathing heavily>>

crachoar
Aug 18, 2005, 03:37 PM
Really, iMovie is not intended for major editing.

It's more of a 'Mom and Dad want to make a quick DVD about Jimmy's High School graduation' type program.

Sure, there are people that have made feature-length films with it...

But really, the pro applications offer so much more control over the video. It's worth the price, if you're interested in the art form at all. Lots of things to experiment with.

iMovie is good to get your feet wet I suppose. But I couldn't help to just jump straight into FCP. You just get so much more control (although, I disliked the fact that FCP didn't support mp3 audio).

illegalprelude
Aug 19, 2005, 06:44 AM
If you can afford FCP, I say go for it. When I bought my Mac, I didnt know crap about them but I also got it for film purposes so i also got FCP. I kinda jumped into it and its been a superb choice.

if price is an issue, get FCE. no shame in it. superb program. far better then iMovie