Is Nintendo Retarded?

[TheMonarch]

OK, first, I'm a huge fan of the big N...


But I hate to see it shoot itself in the foot constantly. I'm talking about the new GB coming out soon, the GB MICRO ... umm... WTF?!

The screen will not be WAY to small, and its not clamshell anymore, something people LOVED about the SP. Why take it away? The DS is clamshell, so why is the Micro not?


Wait, why even release the Micro? :confused:
Its making something nearly perfect, and making it worse. Do we really need another GBA revision?


Why Nintendo, WHY???!!!

Why not make the DS less ugly? add some of the PSP's beauty? And why it is not called Gameboy DS? Isn't it supposed to be the GB's successor? (If it isn't, and its supposed to be a totaly new radical game system, then why does it allow you to play previous generation games like the GBA?)


BTW, I have a DS, its awsome, except UGLY, but so so fun. I just hate how Nintendo is corn-hole-ing itself.

[GFLPraxis]

That title has gotta be the biggest bit of flamebait I've seen in a while.

I believe the mentality behind the Micro is the same mentality Apple had behind the Mini and Shuffle. Make a small one for people obsessed with size, but the majority can go with the big one.

And why it is not called Gameboy DS? Isn't it supposed to be the GB's successor? (If it isn't, and its supposed to be a totaly new radical game system, then why does it allow you to play previous generation games like the GBA?)


Nintendo stated specificly that it is NOT a successor to the GameBoy but in fact a third line (GameBoy was the handheld and GameCube the console, the DS is a so-called 'third pillar') and eventually they will release a GameBoy successor. But as the GameBoy and DS are seperate lines, they therefore will support both and keep making GBA games as well as DS games.


Why not make the DS less ugly? add some of the PSP's beauty?

Most likely because the DS is twenty times more durable. I've dropped mine on concrete a dozen times and scratched the top of the case like nobody's business. I take it everywhere. Were that a PSP, the screen would be a disaster. Nintendo always was for durability over prettyness; thats why we got the 'purple lunchbox' GameCube, that was far more durable than the PS2 or XBox.

[TheMonarch]

That title has gotta be the biggest bit of flamebait I've seen in a while.

I believe the mentality behind the Micro is the same mentality Apple had behind the Mini and Shuffle. Make a small one for people obsessed with size, but the majority can go with the big one.



Nintendo stated specificly that it is NOT a successor to the GameBoy but in fact a third line (GameBoy was the handheld and GameCube the console, the DS is a so-called 'third pillar') and eventually they will release a GameBoy successor. But as the GameBoy and DS are seperate lines, they therefore will support both and keep making GBA games as well as DS games.



Most likely because the DS is twenty times more durable. I've dropped mine on concrete a dozen times and scratched the top of the case like nobody's business. I take it everywhere. Were that a PSP, the screen would be a disaster. Nintendo always was for durability over prettyness; thats why we got the 'purple lunchbox' GameCube, that was far more durable than the PS2 or XBox.

1) Yeah, the tittle was on purpose, It got your attention didn't it? (I didn't want to sound cocky, sorry if I did, but thats how I feel about Nintendo at the moment)
2) The apple mini comparison works to some extent, but not really, because the mini and regular ipods to the exact same thing, the micro is a whole new thing using old tech, AFTER the newer "better" tech already came out. And on top of that, the newer tech plays the old tech, so why re-release old tech as a separate device? (sorry, if i got off track w/the "tech")
At the $100 release price point, $30 more gets you a DS, and you can play GBA. I just dont see a point.
3) You got a point about the durability thing, but its still flat out ugly. I know that its subjective, but many agree that the PSP make the DS looks waaay better. Plus its possible to design something beautiful, and durable (hello, iBooks?). So I don't buy the whole "its ugly because it has to be durable" thing. Its just plain ugly.

[GFLPraxis]

2) The apple mini comparison works to some extent, but not really, because the mini and regular ipods to the exact same thing, the micro is a whole new thing using old tech, AFTER the newer "better" tech already came out. And on top of that, the newer tech plays the old tech, so why re-release old tech as a separate device? (sorry, if i got off track w/the "tech")
At the $100 release price point, $30 more gets you a DS, and you can play GBA. I just dont see a point.

The Micro and the GBA SP do the EXACT same thing (play GBA games), except that the Micro has a smaller screen.

The Mini and the iPod do the EXACT same thing (play music, same formats and interface), exept the Mini has a smaller capacity.

Same concept.

I agree on the price point, that's ridiculous. I expected it to be $50. Reggie said it was the cheapest GameBoy they'd ever produced.

3) You got a point about the durability thing, but its still flat out ugly. I know that its subjective, but many agree that the PSP make the DS looks waaay better. Plus its possible to design something beautiful, and durable (hello, iBooks?). So I don't buy the whole "its ugly because it has to be durable" thing. Its just plain ugly.

True, but I don't mind, I'm usually watching the game :p

I wouldn't call it ugly (but looks are a personal preference thing), it just doesn't look really good either.

[Devie]

The DS isnt ugly, the PS2... now thats ugly.
The DS closed looks a bit od and not that good, though when opened, it looks very good IMO, though the PSP does look better, but in real world, DS wins with fold design and not a magent for finger marks.

[raggedjimmi]

since when did retarded companies completely own the handheld market and make the most profit compared to its competitors?

[.Andy]

since when did retarded companies completely own the handheld market and make the most profit compared to its competitors?
Bang on Raggedjimmi :).

But I'm sure when blaskillet4 gets his Company up and running he'll blow the retarded likes of Ninetendo, Sony, and Microsoft out of the water with his wonderful insight into what everybody in the world wants ;).

[MacNoobie]

Honestly I feel Nintendo is slowly going down the tube, with MS and Sony dominating the game console markets I cant say I blame Nintendo but they're making stupid decisions for awhile now, no online service, sticking the Mario and Zelda games hoping that will keep them alive, now the GB Micro.

Nintendo lost another person today since Resident Evil 5 is going to be on the 360 and PS3 so no reason for me to consider the Revolution.

Thanks Nintendo you've been there in the 80's with the NES, SNES, N64, GB etc but its time to close up shop and admit defeat, you wont survive the next 5-8 years.

[ohcrap]

Thanks Nintendo you've been there in the 80's with the NES, SNES, N64, GB etc but its time to close up shop and admit defeat, you wont survive the next 5-8 years.
I give it less than that.

[.Andy]

Dying just like Apple :rolleyes:?

Nintendo know their audience and they know it well. They remain the only profitable firm out there and I beleive they will continue to be. As far as I can see Sony and Microsoft have not even attempted to try and go after the same demographic as Nintendo has under their control. They put out similar systems but aim them at totally different audience. There is room in the market for everyone. Except perhaps Microsoft.

I wouldn't be too hasty in jumping to conclusions :)

[cubist]

The GB Micro's main market may be Japan where everyone is obsessed with small things... $100 does sound like a crazy price. The GBA SP would blow it away in every respect functionally, and it's not all THAT big, is it?

FTM, Nintendogs is a runaway craze in Japan, but I don't see that happening in the US. Tamagotchis were not all that popular here either.

Who's got Asphalt? Is it good? Why does NFS Underground 2 get such crappy reviews, is it really that bad?

[applekid]

Thread already in progress...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=144255

[raggedjimmi]

You all say that Nintendo will be gone in a few years? Wow, Nintendo's far from being the 'retarded' one.

There are people out there, people who dont class themselves as fanboys people who dont really give much crap to games... who absolutely love Mario, Zelda and Metroid. There is no competition with those games which is why they sell.

Yes like Apple, sure whats it? 3-5% of computers out there are Apple. but the iPod market share is immense. now i'd really hate to say this (although its already been said) but Apple aren't going anywhere. are they? So why should Nintendo go? even if they had 3% they would still be in the game.

Again, i reiterate, the millionth person to say so, Nintendo is making more profit than any of its rivals. would they just say "lets shut down, we've had enough of huge profits"? Remember. Nintendo is a COMPANY. a COMPANYs main target is money/profit/income, however you put it, if they had 1% share but still had massive profits they would still be in the game. can i put this any simpler?

I never thought a mac forum could be so stupid. -_-

[GaseousPlatypus]

Japan where everyone is obsessed with small things...

Oh God, I just watched the Chinpokomon episonde of Southpark, so that quote was hilarious.

[GFLPraxis]

Honestly I feel Nintendo is slowly going down the tube, with MS and Sony dominating the game console markets I cant say I blame Nintendo but they're making stupid decisions for awhile now, no online service, sticking the Mario and Zelda games hoping that will keep them alive, now the GB Micro.

Nintendo lost another person today since Resident Evil 5 is going to be on the 360 and PS3 so no reason for me to consider the Revolution.

Thanks Nintendo you've been there in the 80's with the NES, SNES, N64, GB etc but its time to close up shop and admit defeat, you wont survive the next 5-8 years.


Microsoft DOMINATING the console market?

Gee...considering that Microsoft's marketshare was EQUAL to Nintendo's in the console market, and Nintendo had a 90% marketshare in handhelds, and made more profits than either Sony or Microsoft off the GameCube...

If that's how you define being dominated, then let Nintendo get dominated :D

Nintendo's like Apple. Even if the marketshare dwindles on their flagship console, they know how to keep it extremely profitable, and always have their portables to give them an income. Just like Apple has a 3% marketshare on Macs, but as they sell the hardware and software make more money per system than the other companies, and have the iPod to back them up...

[Sdashiki]

The XBOX/PS2-3 are not the same.

The Revolution is another, not the same.

XBOX = crap computer that plays games without crashing

PS2 = crap DVD player that plays games without crashing

Nintendo = innovative game/console maker

Consoles are just computers that do one thing, and do it well.

In the console market, if you dominate JAPAN you dominate the market. While the US/EU are HUGE markets, the real $ is in Japan. XBOX does crap business cuz M$ has no producers like Sony does.

If you have Square/Enix etc on your side you win the console wars.

its not the consoles, its the games. Its why Nintendo IS STILL AROUND eventhough they havent put out a decent RPG since the SNES.

You cant compare the XBOX to the PS2 nor to the Revolution/GCube, they are all vastly different machines that all just play games on a TV.

[Whyren]

Honestly I feel Nintendo is slowly going down the tube.

People have been saying that since before XBox or PlayStation came out, yet here we are.

[TheMonarch]

You all say that Nintendo will be gone in a few years? Wow, Nintendo's far from being the 'retarded' one.

There are people out there, people who dont class themselves as fanboys people who dont really give much crap to games... who absolutely love Mario, Zelda and Metroid. There is no competition with those games which is why they sell.

Yes like Apple, sure whats it? 3-5% of computers out there are Apple. but the iPod market share is immense. now i'd really hate to say this (although its already been said) but Apple aren't going anywhere. are they? So why should Nintendo go? even if they had 3% they would still be in the game.

Again, i reiterate, the millionth person to say so, Nintendo is making more profit than any of its rivals. would they just say "lets shut down, we've had enough of huge profits"? Remember. Nintendo is a COMPANY. a COMPANYs main target is money/profit/income, however you put it, if they had 1% share but still had massive profits they would still be in the game. can i put this any simpler?

I never thought a mac forum could be so stupid. -_-


You don't get it do you? Fist of all, Apple is more than twice the size that Nintendo is, so if they had the same 5% market share, Nintnedo would be in more trouble than apple. The Gameboy is Nintendo's remaining dominating console, and they're going to kill it off by releasing an old console in a crappyer package at an outrageous price range. Don't you think thats somewhat stupid?

I know its mostly about the games, just like its mostly about osx on a mac. But we all know that the hardware has something, because we all love how our macs look.

EDIT: And if they had 1% market share, sure Nintendo could (i guess) still profit by selling to 1% of the market, but its not only Nintendo that needs to profit.. How many game developers do you think are going to waste their time making games for 1% of the market? Its not the thread thats stupid here :rolleyes:

[raggedjimmi]

The XBOX/PS2-3 are not the same.

The Revolution is another, not the same.

XBOX = crap computer that plays games without crashing

PS2 = crap DVD player that plays games without crashing

Nintendo = innovative game/console maker

Consoles are just computers that do one thing, and do it well.

In the console market, if you dominate JAPAN you dominate the market. While the US/EU are HUGE markets, the real $ is in Japan. XBOX does crap business cuz M$ has no producers like Sony does.

If you have Square/Enix etc on your side you win the console wars.

its not the consoles, its the games. Its why Nintendo IS STILL AROUND eventhough they havent put out a decent RPG since the SNES.

You cant compare the XBOX to the PS2 nor to the Revolution/GCube, they are all vastly different machines that all just play games on a TV.

well, not exactly. Square Enix were once good. but have you seen the reviews of the latest Square games? they've been a falling star since FFVII. The last good game since FFVII for me was FF: Lost Souls, the ports of FF1 and 2.
seemingly its not just me who thinks that too. a lot of Square people are saying they need a new FFVII to conquer again.
As for RPGs, Tales of Symophonia is getting rave reviews. but because its on the Cube its vastly unheard. People are calling that the new FFVII. I've yet to play it but its supposed to be very epic.

besides its not just RPG's that sell. in Japan Nintendog's is doing insanely well, as is Jump Superstars. Mario Bros 3 is either the most sold game ever or very near it. not an RPG.
sorry im going on about RPG's but you're coming across as saying that RPGs make or break console sales. but i do get what you're saying about them being totally different machines. Although as an Xbox user too, the Xbox and PS2 are so similar, same 3rd party support, both have major DVD playback issues, both have (imo) uncomfy official controllers...

I know its mostly about the games, just like its mostly about osx on a mac. But we all know that the hardware has something, because we all love how our macs look.

taking that into account, the Revolution would dominate. Widest 1st party game demographic AND killer looks?

The Gameboy is Nintendo's remaining dominating console, and they're going to kill it off by releasing an old console in a crappyer package at an outrageous price range. Don't you think thats somewhat stupid?

Funny, you may think its stupid but its going sell like wildfire. you know that, the public knows that. Can i bring back the Shuffle ideology here. A cut-down small version that costs just a whisker under its big brother. if they released a new 'cutdown' but visually identical SP without GB compatibility then they would charge a lot less. but they do something different and make an entirely new case out of metal, sure the tech is 5 years old, but now its tiny. a process we all know costs a lot.
The same can be said about taking an iPods shell and sticking a little 512Mb-1Gb flash drive in there. the price would drop so low.

And no its not stupid. its aimed at a different demographic. its aimed at people who want a little keychain fashion accessory, but who want to play games too. i doubt fashion folk are going to miss the GB compatibility.

dont lose any sleep over the Micro. it will fill its part and once more make Nintendo more money.

[Demon Hunter]

And no its not stupid. its aimed at a different demographic. its aimed at people who want a little keychain fashion accessory, but who want to play games too. i doubt fashion folk are going to miss the GB compatibility.


You're exactly right.

I saw the Micro at E3 and it's exactly that. A hip fashion accessory, with a myriad of different colors and "skins" aimed at the cell-phone game market segment.

People remember the simplicity of old game boy: A, B, start. I would much rather game on this than punching keys on my cell phone.

[davidgilmour]

OK, first, I'm a huge fan of the big N...


But I hate to see it shoot itself in the foot constantly. I'm talking about the new GB coming out soon, the GB MICRO ... umm... WTF?!



I am gonna buy one because it is so small.

[TheMonarch]

I am gonna buy one because it is so small.


Great! Support the big N. But I'm afraid its gonna flop. I still stand, and say that they should have made the DS slimmer instead of making a whole new handheld.

[raggedjimmi]

Great! Support the big N. But I'm afraid its gonna flop. I still stand, and say that they should have made the DS slimmer instead of making a whole new handheld.

any slimmer and it would have the battery life of the PSP. I opened the battery compartment up a day or so ago, just because i had a mini screwdriver on me. the battery is TINY. the way i see it there is a LOT in there. and 2 screens too. it could not be any slimmer. not with todays tech.
maybe the top screen could be slimmer, but then your risking bad sound quality (the speakers would need to be slimmer too)...

no thanks.

[OnceUGoMac]

Thanks Nintendo you've been there in the 80's with the NES, SNES, N64, GB etc but its time to close up shop and admit defeat, you wont survive the next 5-8 years.

The SNES and the N64 were the 90s.

[Mord]

The XBOX/PS2-3 are not the same.

The Revolution is another, not the same.

XBOX = crap computer that plays games without crashing

PS2 = crap DVD player that plays games without crashing

Nintendo = innovative game/console maker

Consoles are just computers that do one thing, and do it well.

In the console market, if you dominate JAPAN you dominate the market. While the US/EU are HUGE markets, the real $ is in Japan. XBOX does crap business cuz M$ has no producers like Sony does.

If you have Square/Enix etc on your side you win the console wars.

its not the consoles, its the games. Its why Nintendo IS STILL AROUND eventhough they havent put out a decent RPG since the SNES.

You cant compare the XBOX to the PS2 nor to the Revolution/GCube, they are all vastly different machines that all just play games on a TV.

not true, my xbox crashes, weather it shares components with a pc (only one of them being the pentium 3 cpu) does not make it any less of a console, and the ps2 is a console, weather you choose to classify it as a dvd player that can play games just shows how blind you are, games are it's primary function, just because nintendo wanted to use crappy mini dvd's does not make them more dedicated to games, i dont hold anything against the cube it's just nintendo fanboys like you which act all superior because other consoles do more than just play games, adding a dvd player does not reduce the number or quality of games produced for the system, if anything it increases it as the console will be more popular.

[prophet621]

I'm not a fan of Nintendo, never have been. I liked the Genesis better than SuperNintendo. Playstation better than N64 and both Xbox and PS2 over ugly Game Cube. It's mostly the games I don't like, never got into arcade type games like Mario. It's the same game over and over which I find incredibly boring. Occasionally Nintendo somehow stumbles across a decent game to me, though it's very rare. Off hand, I can think of one game I really liked.. Goldeneye.

As others have said, Nintendo markets for younger audience and they excel at it. There aren't very many good kid games for PS2 or Xbox, I have both and a 7 year old daughter. Finding games for her isn't that easy. A GC has a larger selection of games appropriate for her but I refuse to ever buy a Nintendo product and I think the mini disks were stupid.

Xbox and PS2 (and the next generation of those) are geared for more of the older gamers.

There is room for all three though the irrational fanboys of each will not hesitate for a moment to tell you otherwise. Not only is there room for them, but Nintendo can sit semi-safely back because Sony and MS are both fighting for the same demographic groups while Nintendo rather handily claims the younger group since the other aren't going for them. The console wars are now between Sony and MS, Nintendo gets the ones they don't want.

[Mord]

people say nintendo have more kiddy games, they dont the ps2 has more kiddy games, also has more adult games, it just has more games in general.
The way i see it if your a gamer who buys a game every couple of weeks the playstation is for you, you have a constent stream of decent games, but the gamecube and xbox are for less dedicated gamers as they have a few amazing games like halo pikmin meteroid prime and crimson skies.
Each console has their own demographic, and to be honest i think nintendo's has been taken by the xbox because microsoft has bough rareware and without rareware i dont think nintendo can survive. The whole mario thing just does not do it for the majority, they have no decent online service, the console cant play dvd's and their biggest seller is just mindless violence between their trademark characters, how original.
The dreamcast fell to the PS2, and I think nintendo will fall to microsoft, japan is not as important as it was, before they were the pioneers, now games have become so mainstream startups are impossible and developers are merging and being bought up so fast if you dont pay attention your favorite game is now being made by your arch nemesis.
It's a violent market and Microsoft and to a lesser degree sony are the only two companies company immune from being hurt by the flames because they have the cash behind them.
As far as the next gen is concerned i'm going to wait untill halo 3 and the ps3 come out, and unless furfighters 2 is a ps3 exclusive or some other equally amazing game i'll get an xbox 360 unless halo 3 sucks, which i highly doubt, as far is nintendo is concerned if they come out with a good system with good games i'll buy one, but i dont see that happening, i suspect they will do something utterly pointless and claim it to be revolutionary much like the DS.

personally the best games i have ever played are mostly on the xbox with a couple on the dreamcast and a few on the mega drive (genesis)

[Whyren]

people say nintendo have more kiddy games, they dont the ps2 has more kiddy games, also has more adult games, it just has more games in general, the way i see it if your a gamer who buys a game every couple of weeks the playstation is for you, you have a constent stream of decent games, but the gamecube and xbox are for less dedicated gamers as they have a few amazing games like halo pikmin meteroid prime and crimson skies, each console has their own demographic, and to be honest i think nintendo's has been taken by the xbox because microsoft has bough rareware and without rareware i dont think nintendo can survive, the whole mario thing just does not do it for the majority, they have no decent online service, the console cant play dvd's and their biggest seller is just mindless violence between their trademark characters, how original, the dreamcast fell to the PS2, and i think nintendo will fall to microsoft, japan is not as important as it was, before they were the pioneers, now games have become so mainstream startups are impossible and developers are merging and being bought up so fast if you dont pay attention your favorite game is now being made by your arch nemesis, it's a violent market and Microsoft and to a lesser degree sony are the only two companies company immune from being hurt by the flames because they have the cash behind them, as far as the next gen is concerned i'm going to wait untill halo 3 and the ps3 come out, and unless furfighters 2 is a ps3 exclusive or some other equally amazing game i'll get an xbox 360 unless halo 3 sucks, which i highly doubt, as far is nintendo is concerned if they come out with a good system with good games i'll buy one, but i dont see that happening, i suspect they will do something utterly pointless and claim it to be revolutionary much like the DS.

personally the best games i have ever played are mostly on the xbox with a couple on the dreamcast and a few on the mega drive (genesis)

I think RareWare was a great loss (as they produce some truly remarkable games), but the direction they were moving in may not have been what Nintendo wanted (Conker, anyone?).

Let's throw this out there: How many people think non-handheld consoles are going to last vs. the miniaturization and technological leaps of computer systems?

[GFLPraxis]

I'm not a fan of Nintendo, never have been. I liked the Genesis better than SuperNintendo. Playstation better than N64 and both Xbox and PS2 over ugly Game Cube. It's mostly the games I don't like, never got into arcade type games like Mario. It's the same game over and over which I find incredibly boring. Occasionally Nintendo somehow stumbles across a decent game to me, though it's very rare. Off hand, I can think of one game I really liked.. Goldeneye.

As others have said, Nintendo markets for younger audience and they excel at it. There aren't very many good kid games for PS2 or Xbox, I have both and a 7 year old daughter. Finding games for her isn't that easy. A GC has a larger selection of games appropriate for her but I refuse to ever buy a Nintendo product and I think the mini disks were stupid.

Xbox and PS2 (and the next generation of those) are geared for more of the older gamers.

There is room for all three though the irrational fanboys of each will not hesitate for a moment to tell you otherwise. Not only is there room for them, but Nintendo can sit semi-safely back because Sony and MS are both fighting for the same demographic groups while Nintendo rather handily claims the younger group since the other aren't going for them. The console wars are now between Sony and MS, Nintendo gets the ones they don't want.

I'm sorry, but this is one of my pet peeves.
No, it's NOT that the GameCube is for kids. It's that the GameCube is the only system that supports ALL age groups, and as a result, people call it kiddy. Meanwhile, XBox and PS2 market toward adolescents and try to be 'cool'.


You're calling Nintendo's games..."arcade type games"? Mario hasn't been an 'arcade type game' since the SNES.

If you have a GameCube, go buy Metroid and Zelda. You'll understand why we like it. The fact is that Nintendo simply does not add all the blood and gore, and as a result can market it to all ages. If you added blood and gore to Zelda (it already has swords and bombs and arrows you know), it would suddenly be considered in the same category as God of War and Prince of Persia and start getting tons of awards, I'd tell you that ;)

[GFLPraxis]

I think RareWare was a great loss (as they produce some truly remarkable games), but the direction they were moving in may not have been what Nintendo wanted (Conker, anyone?).

Let's throw this out there: How many people think non-handheld consoles are going to last vs. the miniaturization and technological leaps of computer systems?

Well, after Microsoft bought RareWare, all the high up guys quit and formed Free Radical...and they still make GameCube games...

[Mord]

conker rules, whatever anyone says, still prefer furfighters to it, but common, conker.

[Mord]

The fact is that Nintendo simply does not add all the blood and gore, and as a result can market it to all ages. If you added blood and gore to Zelda (it already has swords and bombs and arrows you know), it would suddenly be considered in the same category as God of War and Prince of Persia and start getting tons of awards, I'd tell you that ;)



that is what i also dislike about nintendo, children need to know when you stab someone they bleed, they spirt blood all over the place and they die in pain and agony, to make it seem like you stab them and they fall over is to make it like a game and to put that kind of message into a kids head is just plain wrong, games need to be rated by theme, when i was a kid the kids with N64's and snes were the violent ones, the ones that wanted to wrestle the ones that hit you as a joke, personally i am fully against guns, but i have respect for people that bring their children up around them with a healthy respect, i dont have respect for people that bring their children up around guns casually shooting for fun because it sends out the wrong message and makes children think it's ok to play with guns, just as kids think it is ok to playfight like characters in super smash brothers, actions without consequence are bad, GTA is a good example of when actions have consequences, the game is easier the less crime you commit, you kill someone you have cops after you and it's a pain the but, sure your a bad guy and do bad things and i wouldent want any 5 year olds playing this but the game does not produce violent children, games which show violence as something which is ok do, and that is echoed in allot of nintendo games, thats why i liked sonic so much, you never hurt anyone (apart from a few scuffles between sonic and knuckles) you destoryed the robots freed the animals and saved the day, games do have a psychological effect on kids, but not in the way most people think

[Lacero]

Nintendo is one of the smartest companies around. They focus on gameplay more than the latest technology. Look at what happened to Dreamcast, Genesis, Jaguar, CPO, and all the other dead consoles. They are a bit slow and I'm not too sure how their Revolution console is going to be but if any company can regain their glory days, its Nintendo.

[GFLPraxis]

that is what i also dislike about nintendo, children need to know when you stab someone they bleed, they spirt blood all over the place and they die in pain and agony, to make it seem like you stab them and they fall over is to make it like a game and to put that kind of message into a kids head is just plain wrong,


That is a very good point, however there is also the fact that in Zelda you NEVER stab another human being, just creatures.

[Mord]

those creatures tend to be personified so much that they could just as well be.

[GFLPraxis]

Um, what? A creature with a giant pig's head that grunts and sniffs the ground while tracking you (also called a Moblin) is personified? Blobs of Jelly are personified? Giant octopus are personified? Black hands that come out of holes in the ground are personified? A giant lava-spider, a giant statue, a giant ghost-infested mask, a giant plant, a big black shadow, a giant puppet, and a giant sand-snake (I just described most of the bosses in Wind Waker) are personified?

You never speak to any of the monsters (as they are called) that you smack around. None of them even seem capable of language, other than the fact that Ganondorf is controls them.

Gotta disagree there. I don't feel Zelda personifies the enemies at all other than quirks how the Moblins act like blithering idiots scratching their heads when they see a barrel moving...


BTW, I agree that I did love Sonic because of that :) Sonic 3 & Knuckles (the combo game) ruled. When I was young I never played a game that involved killing a human being. Mario was probably my most violent game because I dropped Bowser in lava!

[Mord]

my point is that the kind of mock violence that nintendo push is not a healthy violence, it says violence is ok and has no repercussions, i dont have a problem with games like postal 2 because violence causes problems in the game, you can complete the whole thing without shedding a drop of blood, it's all up to you and what you choose to do, also i dont have a problem with more mature games like halo or resident evil, because gamers are not nearly so influenced, it's nintendo packaging violence sans blood and making it out to be ok that annoys me, any kid that is young enough to playfight should not be exposed to such games, or is they are the games have to be made in a way that shows the player the reality of violence.

[rockthecasbah]

I think RareWare was a great loss (as they produce some truly remarkable games), but the direction they were moving in may not have been what Nintendo wanted (Conker, anyone?).
Exactly. Look what marvelous games they've come out with since the big N departure...err im drawing a blank. It seems Conker was the ONLY game that anyone cared about and it is just a pretty face! Remember Perfect Dark Zero, the game originally designed to be a launch title, then delayed again and again, and now is an XBOX 360 title? Nintendo was tired of the delay after delay. You can't set dates and not stand by them. Now nobody even remembers what Perfect Dark is since the N64 version!!! I say F--- 'em. :p

[michaelltd]

my point is that the kind of mock violence that nintendo push is not a healthy violence, it says violence is ok and has no repercussions, i dont have a problem with games like postal 2 because violence causes problems in the game, you can complete the whole thing without shedding a drop of blood, it's all up to you and what you choose to do, also i dont have a problem with more mature games like halo or resident evil, because gamers are not nearly so influenced, it's nintendo packaging violence sans blood and making it out to be ok that annoys me, any kid that is young enough to playfight should not be exposed to such games, or is they are the games have to be made in a way that shows the player the reality of violence.


Okay then. I guess children should stay away from those darn Nintendo games.

hmm... how about Grand Theft Auto? That's violent and people bleed. So now children can have objectives involving stealing cars and evading the police. It's ok if they get shot up, because they know they'll just respawn in front of the hospital, good as new!

Hmm.. maybe that isn't such a good idea.

Let's play some Halo then. Now they can have fun shooting the crap out of each other. Yep, there's blood, but its ok, because if they get shot down, they'll respawn again so they can go and shoot up the others.

Yep, I'm glad that Xbox and Playstation games can teach our children the "reality of violence". :rolleyes:

[TheMonarch]

Like I said, Nintendo makes awesome software and awesome hardware capable of running that software, but what sucks is that it will only run software. Why can't it do multiple things AND run great games? Why?

Nintendo has made pretty dumb decisions, and I keep hoping that they learn from them. I will stick by them, but it just aches me so much. I really don't want Nintendo to die, but they are killing themselves. OK I might be exaggerating here, but they're losing dominance. The gameboy is Nintendo's last pillar before it stops doing so well. Its got a 90% grip right now, and a 'micro' being sold at $100, is really dumb.

And by not calling it the Gameboy DS (instead of 'Nintendo DS'), they're letting the gameboy get trounced by the PSP... After decades of being on top... Why do that? Thats like apple killing the macintosh [name] and naming their next computer somthing else... Then we're not 'Mac' users... After decades of knowing that out macs were the best...

[raggedjimmi]

I'm sorry but you sir, are amazing.
Like I said, Nintendo makes awesome software and awesome hardware capable of running that software, but what sucks is that it will only run software. Why can't it do multiple things AND run great games? Why?

Because they know that people like me don't want an all-round machine that does the lot. they want a games machine. nintendo people play games, thats probably all they're bothered about with a games machine. get over that.

Nintendo has made pretty dumb decisions, and I keep hoping that they learn from them. I will stick by them, but it just aches me so much. I really don't want Nintendo to die, but they are killing themselves. OK I might be exaggerating here, but they're losing dominance. The gameboy is Nintendo's last pillar before it stops doing so well. Its got a 90% grip right now, and a 'micro' being sold at $100, is really dumb.

Hoping they will learn from it? they've been a gaming hardware and software developer since the 1980's! they know what they're doing is right. wethor or not other people who want their iPod to play vids, download via WiFi, time travel, play monochrome RPG games say that they are doing wrong.

And by not calling it the Gameboy DS (instead of 'Nintendo DS'), they're letting the gameboy get trounced by the PSP... After decades of being on top... Why do that? Thats like apple killing the macintosh [name] and naming their next computer somthing else... Then we're not 'Mac' users... After decades of knowing that out macs were the best...

The biggest reason the DS isn't called the Gameboy DS is rather simple but often overlooked; its intention is not necessarily to play GBA games. thats a nicely added extra feature. Port 2 on the DS is there for expandability. Rumble Packs, Solar detectors, tilt sensors, GBA to SD cart...
My guess is that originally the DS would have had a similar port but smaller, but probably made it bigger and turned it into a GBA port to add to the feature list.

Letting the Gameboy get trounced by the PSP? yes... of course. with GBA sales more than the PS2, PS2 being out longer too. and the GB being the single most successful hardware series ever? of course! its being beaten silly by Sony :D

[DrNeroCF]

Nintendo makes more money than all of Sony COMBINED. It's a statistical fact. Wah wah wah Nintendo is teh kiddy... Sure lets look through my game collection for a moment: Geist, TimeSplitters 2 and 3 Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime 1 and 2, Rogue Squadron 2 and 3, Viewtiful Joe, REmake, Eternal Darkness and F-Zero are teh kiddie? Sure I have more games, but I'm just pointing out the more mature looking of the bunch. Smash Bros. Melee is still one of the best games ever, and Mario Kart, well, anyone will play Mario Kart. And look at the new Zelda, it's gonna kick ass.

And don't even make me start ranting about the loads of ass my DS collection kicks.

[TheMonarch]

I'm sorry but you sir, are amazing.


Because they know that people like me don't want an all-round machine that does the lot. they want a games machine. nintendo people play games, thats probably all they're bothered about with a games machine. get over that.

Get over that? For every person who doesn't want their gaming system to be multifunctional, there are tons more who DO want their system to be multifunctional. So if you don't want to watch DVDs on your gamecube, then go buy a separate DVD player (or if you already have one, use up another connection on your TV). But many want multifunction.



Hoping they will learn from it? they've been a gaming hardware and software developer since the 1980's! they know what they're doing is right. wethor or not other people who want their iPod to play vids, download via WiFi, time travel, play monochrome RPG games say that they are doing wrong.

No, they haven't learned. with every generation of gaming systems, Nintendo has lost market share. Is that a sign that Nintendo has learned from its mistakes?



Letting the Gameboy get trounced by the PSP? yes... of course. with GBA sales more than the PS2, PS2 being out longer too. and the GB being the single most successful hardware series ever? of course! its being beaten silly by Sony :D

Exactly. The GB is the most successful, and now look at what Nintendo is going to do to it. I know the GB has outsold the PS2 overall, but current psp sales will probably beat the 5 year-old gameboy (not the DS). That hasn't happened to the gameboy, why would Nintendo let that happen at all?

[HiRez]

If they just started with the current GBA SP form factor, but trimmed most of the excess space/bezel around the screen (so the screen now takes up most of the width at least), then cut the closed height in half (what made the GBA SP too bulky IMO), increased the battery life a bit and built in a headphone jack, all for about $50-$70, it'd be perfect. Think of the thinness and space-efficiency of a Titanium PowerBook, scaled down. A GBA that keeps the current screen size and clamshell design while reducing overall size and weight. As it is, I will not be buying one, even though I did buy both an original GBA and a GBA SP, and would like an even smaller version.

[iZach]

Oh God, I just watched the Chinpokomon episonde of Southpark, so that quote was hilarious.

LMAO!
:D

[Whyren]

my point is that the kind of mock violence that nintendo push is not a healthy violence, it says violence is ok and has no repercussions, i dont have a problem with games like postal 2 because violence causes problems in the game, you can complete the whole thing without shedding a drop of blood, it's all up to you and what you choose to do, also i dont have a problem with more mature games like halo or resident evil, because gamers are not nearly so influenced, it's nintendo packaging violence sans blood and making it out to be ok that annoys me, any kid that is young enough to playfight should not be exposed to such games, or is they are the games have to be made in a way that shows the player the reality of violence.

Reminds me of a quote a while back from Nintendo's VP of Marketing regarding the GTA craze: "Mario will never start shooting hookers."

Not arguing one way or another, just love that quote. :D

[crachoar]

The Micro and the GBA SP do the EXACT same thing (play GBA games), except that the Micro has a smaller screen.

Man, sometimes - I think I should start my own video game edition of 'MythBusters'...

Wrong. The Gameboy Micro only plays GBA games - it will not play GB or GBC games. It is a complete regression, in practically every way - with the acception of the better screen and headphone port.

So, it is - in fact - not the same thing.

...Meanwhile, XBox and PS2 market toward adolescents and try to be 'cool'.

...If you added blood and gore to Zelda (it already has swords and bombs and arrows you know), it would suddenly be considered in the same category as God of War and Prince of Persia and start getting tons of awards, I'd tell you that ;)

Well, again, you're wrong.

The PS2 has games like 'Katamari Demacy', 'Sly Cooper', 'Ape Escape', etc. The Xbox has a fair share of 'family' games as well. Really - all three consoles have their fair share of kid-friendly games. The issue being debated is that, Nintendo hardly ever creates mature games themselves (the most violent being 'Ocarina of Time' followed by 'Smash Bros.') - whereas companies like 'Sony' made 'God of War' (which was an excellent game with incredibly solid controls and mechanics).

The issue is that - the Gamecube (much like the N64) lacks major third party support, RPGs, online play, etc.

And about the blood in Zelda?

Apparently, you never played 'Ocarina of Time' for the N64.

Let me give you a breif run-down. If you haven't beaten this game - don't read below:


The Ending of 'Ocarina of Time':

-Link fights Ganon's final 'demon' form outside.
-Link stabs Ganon in the face with the master sword.
-Ganon's face spews red blood all over the place.

So, it looks like even the holy Nintendo empire can stoop to your despicable 'cool' level as well...

Pity.

Please know your Nintendo history before entering a heated video game debate. Thanks.

[Mord]

Okay then. I guess children should stay away from those darn Nintendo games.

hmm... how about Grand Theft Auto? That's violent and people bleed. So now children can have objectives involving stealing cars and evading the police. It's ok if they get shot up, because they know they'll just respawn in front of the hospital, good as new!

Hmm.. maybe that isn't such a good idea.

Let's play some Halo then. Now they can have fun shooting the crap out of each other. Yep, there's blood, but its ok, because if they get shot down, they'll respawn again so they can go and shoot up the others.

Yep, I'm glad that Xbox and Playstation games can teach our children the "reality of violence". :rolleyes:

those games dont pretend to be ok for young children like nintendo makes their games out to be.

also the whole multi function debate, the only reason nintendo choose such a dodgy format is to keep a handle on piracy, dvd's can be burnt easyly, and it has worked.

the whole i dont want it lets keep it concentraighted on games argument is m00t, the relatively tinny R&D cost compared to the additional sales is huge and would not make it any less of a games machine, also i suspect that it would be cheaper as dvd players are standard parts where as those mini disk players are not and have to be made for nintendo.

[.Andy]

that is what i also dislike about nintendo, children need to know when you stab someone they bleed, they spirt blood all over the place and they die in pain and agony, to make it seem like you stab them and they fall over is to make it like a game and to put that kind of message into a kids head is just plain wrong, games need to be rated by theme, when i was a kid the kids with N64's and snes were the violent ones, the ones that wanted to wrestle the ones that hit you as a joke, personally i am fully against guns, but i have respect for people that bring their children up around them with a healthy respect, i dont have respect for people that bring their children up around guns casually shooting for fun because it sends out the wrong message and makes children think it's ok to play with guns, just as kids think it is ok to playfight like characters in super smash brothers, actions without consequence are bad, GTA is a good example of when actions have consequences, the game is easier the less crime you commit, you kill someone you have cops after you and it's a pain the but, sure your a bad guy and do bad things and i wouldent want any 5 year olds playing this but the game does not produce violent children, games which show violence as something which is ok do, and that is echoed in allot of nintendo games, thats why i liked sonic so much, you never hurt anyone (apart from a few scuffles between sonic and knuckles) you destoryed the robots freed the animals and saved the day, games do have a psychological effect on kids, but not in the way most people think

Firstly Hector, congratulations on probably the longest sentence I've ever read in my life. You crammed 15 commas in there and not a single fullstop. Kudos to you :).

Secondly it has got to be probably the funniest thing I've ever read. That someone can seriously try to present an argument that Nintendo is dishonest because they are surreptitiously misleading kids into thinking violence is OK and doesn't have any ramifications is champagne comedy :D!

[Mord]

i talk from experience not blind fanboyism to MS/sony all the people in my primary school who owned N64's were the violent ones, the ones that took playfighting too far and hurt people, obiously these were only the stupid kids and when you look back yourself you were not like that (unless you were ;) )

anyway, that post was all typed up in about 30 seconds hence the lack of grammer.

[bigandy]

You don't get it do you? Fist of all, Apple is more than twice the size that Nintendo is, so if they had the same 5% market share, Nintnedo would be in more trouble than apple. The Gameboy is Nintendo's remaining dominating console, and they're going to kill it off by releasing an old console in a crappyer package at an outrageous price range. Don't you think thats somewhat stupid?

I know its mostly about the games, just like its mostly about osx on a mac. But we all know that the hardware has something, because we all love how our macs look.

EDIT: And if they had 1% market share, sure Nintendo could (i guess) still profit by selling to 1% of the market, but its not only Nintendo that needs to profit.. How many game developers do you think are going to waste their time making games for 1% of the market? Its not the thread thats stupid here :rolleyes:


well said that man!

[.Andy]

i talk from experience not blind fanboyism to MS/sony all the people in my primary school who owned N64's were the violent ones, the ones that took playfighting too far and hurt people, obiously these were only the stupid kids
You're just diggin deeper and deeper holes Hector :D!

Next you'll be telling us that GBA's are the cause of terrorism :p.

[raggedjimmi]

Something interesting to the Micro debate;

the Micro has more than double the preorders than the PSP in my Game.

:rolleyes:

instant failure! nintendo suxx! in 5 years there will be no nintendoxxor!

wether or not 3rd parties are supporting Nintendo (for fear of losing money or whatever), there will always be Nintendo producing the Zeldas, the Metroid Primes, the Mario 128's.
incidently something i'd like to bring to the table. is that the Gamecube is the easier to produce games for, and the Rev promises to make it even easier. easier=shorter production time=costs less.

looking at the cost of Xbox360 games at the moment shows that it costs a serious amount of money for these sort of games.

that and the new thinking behind Nintendo of more mature games mean its going to be a much more dangerous console to Sony and M$.

so thats; cheap, fast production+allowance for mature games. that sounds just like the original PS1 (a console im very fond of).

[raggedjimmi]

sorry about this, but going back to the iPod/GBA comparison...

There are people out there who DEGRADE to use a newer music player. Take me, i dropped from a 3G iPod 15Gb to a 2G iPod mini 6Gb... for no other reason that it was smaller and looked better.
There are people who dropped from 4G iPods to shuffles, because it was more convenient to them to use a smaller player.
The Shuffle is based on tech OLDER than the GBA. the first flash drive MP3 players were coming out in 98-99. GBA; 2001.

But the Shuffle was a runaway success. it was the best music player creator (Apple) making a cheap effort to get cut-down old tech out. which had 1 or 2 benefits in its new form.

just change 'Best Music Player' with 'Best Handheld' and Apple to Nintendo.

makes sense no?

[greatdevourer]

since when did retarded companies completely own the handheld market and make the most profit compared to its competitors? They don't just make the most profit. The mere fact that they make any profit at all is enough

Nintendo lost another person today since Resident Evil 5 is going to be on the 360 and PS3 so no reason for me to consider the Revolution. Erm.. Capcom know about as much about the Revo as you do. They can't exactly announce summat for a platform they don't know anything about, can they?

As others have said, Nintendo markets for younger audience and they excel at it. There aren't very many good kid games for PS2 or Xbox, I have both and a 7 year old daughter. Finding games for her isn't that easy. A GC has a larger selection of games appropriate for her but

I refuse to ever buy a Nintendo product

I think the mini disks were stupid.

Xbox and PS2 (and the next generation of those) are geared for more of the older gamers.

The console wars are now between Sony and MS
1) My guess is you've never seen the DS marketing campaign, or the Capcom 5, or the fact that in the Ninty versions of games, blood and gore is much more detailed (good old ArtX)
2) And you're calling us irrational fanboys?
3) How are they stupid? Because you can't get pirate games? Dude, the whole Nintendo propeitry thing (also with the DS cards that are almost SD cards, but with a differently pinned BUS) is to make them cheaper to produce than an entirely new format (they're standard 8cm DVDs) but mod them so that they can't be pirated (they use an entirely different file-structure)
4) Not really... the average "Nintendo are for kids" person is 12 or 13, saying it to his mates to make him look "well 'ard"
5) Oh no they're not. The XBox sells in the west, and the west only. In Japan, the only people who own one are the rich kids who own all 3, and Japan is where the money's really at

Like I said, Nintendo makes awesome software and awesome hardware capable of running that software, but what sucks is that it will only run software. Why can't it do multiple things AND run great games? Why? As one of the Ninty guys said (can't remember who), if you can buy a console, you probably have at least 1 DVD-player already

And by not calling it the Gameboy DS (instead of 'Nintendo DS'), they're letting the gameboy get trounced by the PSP... It's not called the GameBoy DS because it isn't a GameBoy. It's an entirely new product

[ohcrap]

I bet Nintendo goes out of business within the next year. :D

If we're going to argue something so stupid, might as well look at all possibilities. :rolleyes:

[Whyren]

The Ending of 'Ocarina of Time':

-Link fights Ganon's final 'demon' form outside.
-Link stabs Ganon in the face with the master sword.
-Ganon's face spews red blood all over the place.

So, it looks like even the holy Nintendo empire can stoop to your despicable 'cool' level as well...

Pity.

Please know your Nintendo history before entering a heated video game debate. Thanks.

Didn't Nintendo eventually recode the game to turn the blood to green though?

[GFLPraxis]

Yeah, I found that interesting that an older copy had red blood and the newer one had green blood.


Ganondorf did have blood because he was the ONLY sentient creature you stab in the ENTIRE game.

[GFLPraxis]

Man, sometimes - I think I should start my own video game edition of 'MythBusters'...

Wrong. The Gameboy Micro only plays GBA games - it will not play GB or GBC games. It is a complete regression, in practically every way - with the acception of the better screen and headphone port.

So, it is - in fact - not the same thing.

The iPod Mini has a lower capacity and can't view photos.
The GameBoy Micro has a smaller screen and can't play really old games.

Still the same type of difference there.



Well, again, you're wrong.

The PS2 has games like 'Katamari Demacy', 'Sly Cooper', 'Ape Escape', etc. The Xbox has a fair share of 'family' games as well. Really - all three consoles have their fair share of kid-friendly games. The issue being debated is that, Nintendo hardly ever creates mature games themselves (the most violent being 'Ocarina of Time' followed by 'Smash Bros.') - whereas companies like 'Sony' made 'God of War' (which was an excellent game with incredibly solid controls and mechanics).

The issue is that - the Gamecube (much like the N64) lacks major third party support, RPGs, online play, etc.

I agree here; the PS2 has a lot of Japanese support, which is why you get Katamari Damacy, Kingdom Hearts 2 (which I really want), etc.

I don't really care for that complaint about Nintendo. Why does a game have to be mature for the sake of being mature? If the game is just as good whether or not it has Link killing hookers or Mario on crack, why do you care whether it is mature or not?

I don't understand people these days.

Anyway; Geist.


And about the blood in Zelda?

Apparently, you never played 'Ocarina of Time' for the N64.

Let me give you a breif run-down. If you haven't beaten this game - don't read below:


The Ending of 'Ocarina of Time':

-Link fights Ganon's final 'demon' form outside.
-Link stabs Ganon in the face with the master sword.
-Ganon's face spews red blood all over the place.

So, it looks like even the holy Nintendo empire can stoop to your despicable 'cool' level as well...

Pity.

Please know your Nintendo history before entering a heated video game debate. Thanks.


No, I know all about that (BTW, the later version is editted with green blood). It makes sense, too, as Ganondorf is the only human-like enemy you fight. This actually proves MY point in the debate I was having; the person I was arguing with said that Zelda desensitizes children to think nothing happens when you stab someone. Well, as I said, all your enemies are nonsentient monsters...and this shows that when you fight a human (or semi-human) being, there IS blood shown.

[GFLPraxis]

You don't get it do you? Fist of all, Apple is more than twice the size that Nintendo is, so if they had the same 5% market share, Nintnedo would be in more trouble than apple. The Gameboy is Nintendo's remaining dominating console, and they're going to kill it off by releasing an old console in a crappyer package at an outrageous price range. Don't you think thats somewhat stupid?

I know its mostly about the games, just like its mostly about osx on a mac. But we all know that the hardware has something, because we all love how our macs look.

EDIT: And if they had 1% market share, sure Nintendo could (i guess) still profit by selling to 1% of the market, but its not only Nintendo that needs to profit.. How many game developers do you think are going to waste their time making games for 1% of the market? Its not the thread thats stupid here :rolleyes:

What are you TALKING about? Yes, Apple is twice the size of Nintendo. But Nintendo has a 15% console marketshare, the same as Microsoft. So it has three times the marketshare. And a 90% handheld marketshare.

And releasing a mini-model at a high price will not kill off GBA sales! Tell me, how will offering a smaller, more expensive model stop people from buying the GBA SP or DS?

Nintendo is going to offer a new GameBoy at some point, I'm waiting to see when.

[BrianDavid0523]

Nintendo is poised to take the gaming industry by storm when the Revolution is unveiled very very soon. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Xbox & PS3 fans will be drooling from the mouth when they see what the Revolution is, and experience it's enhancement to gaming. I'm so jazzed about Revolution, I can hardly keep the secret much longer!

[TheMonarch]

What are you TALKING about? Yes, Apple is twice the size of Nintendo. But Nintendo has a 15% console marketshare, the same as Microsoft. So it has three times the marketshare. And a 90% handheld marketshare.

And releasing a mini-model at a high price will not kill off GBA sales! Tell me, how will offering a smaller, more expensive model stop people from buying the GBA SP or DS?

Nintendo is going to offer a new GameBoy at some point, I'm waiting to see when.


What am I talking about?... hmm... well lets see... Nintendo's home systems have lost market share EVERY generation since the super Nintendo. And they still haven't learned. Also, Microsoft has more market share than the big N. So, no, they dont have the same market share.

And what this supposed to mean :
"And releasing a mini-model at a high price will not kill off GBA sales! Tell me, how will offering a smaller, more expensive model stop people from buying the GBA SP or DS?"

I said that for the first time ever, the GB might be outsold by a rival system!
Do you know whats happening?

smaller, more expensive, less useful, too small, old tech.

$130<--- gets you a DS---> so 30 bucks more and you get a much better console...

$100<--- gets you a micro---> smaller... which is a benefit?

$70<--- gets you an SP---> everything the micro can do, plus backward compatibility. And those 30 bucks you save can get you a game...

[GFLPraxis]

I agree that its overpriced.

I do not agree that releasing the Micro is going to kill the GBA. That's just ridiculous :rolleyes:


What am I talking about?... hmm... well lets see... Nintendo's home systems have lost market share EVERY generation since the super Nintendo. And they still haven't learned. Also, Microsoft has more market share than the big N. So, no, they dont have the same market share.

Microsoft only has a higher marketshare in the U.S. Check the worldwide charts.

Nintendo's handhelds have stayed on top every generation; Nintendo lost marketshare because there were more competitors. Generation 1: NES. No worthy competitors.

Generation 2: SNES vs Genesis.

Generation 3: N64 vs Playstation vs Saturn.

Generation 4: Dreamcast vs PS2 vs GameCube vs XBox.



I said that for the first time ever, the GB might be outsold by a rival system!

This is ridiculous. The GB has a GIGANTIC installed base. So yes, the PSP is outselling it in terms of weekly sales because the PSP just came out; no one has a PSP and everyone has a GB. The GB is Nintendo's low-end, the DS is Nintendo's high-end, and the DS is outselling the PSP, and the GB is STILL outselling the PS2.

Nintendo is doing just fine.

[.Andy]

So yes, the PSP is outselling it in terms of weekly sales because the PSP just came out.
Is this true GFLPraxis? I thought the DS was outselling the PSP? Perhaps thats just in total units sold though....

[GFLPraxis]

Is this true GFLPraxis? I thought the DS was outselling the PSP? Perhaps thats just in total units sold though....


Check the context ;) I said the PSP was outselling the GBA. The DS has been outselling the PSP constantly, and in Japan has been outselling it by 4 times the last two months (previously because of Nintendogs and now because of Jump Superstars).

[.Andy]

Check the context ;) I said the PSP was outselling the GBA. The DS has been outselling the PSP constantly, and in Japan has been outselling it by 4 times the last two months (previously because of Nintendogs and now because of Jump Superstars).
.Andy is currently unavailable while he resolves some comprehension issues :o......!

(Thanks GFLPraxis ;))

[takao]

despite the 99€ (79€ would have been much nicer) price point the gameboy micro gonna be a killer in christmas sales no doubt about that...

the reason are the same like the small/big ipod discussion: short time travel "who wouldn't pay 50 bucks more for 5 times the storage and more features"

i wouldn't buy a DS or PSP .. both don't fit in my pockets... sure they are small and "portable" but they are not "wearable" i even consider the sp to be more of a "put it in the rucksack"

that aside the SP is still 99€ here so the difference between the two is 0 ... for a gameboy of smaller size than my mobile phone it's a good deal ... it's 2 psp games

(i just saw the value pack starting price of the psp with 2 games on amazon: 339€ ...each game costs 45-50 € ... in german that's called "ein teurer spaß")

EDIT: that aside i'm still more part of the "grap it with your hands kinda guy/on hands expierence" and after holding the micro in my own hands a few times last weekend i'm having good feelings about it ... compared to the P-loading-S-loading-P

[TheMonarch]

Alright, we obviously don't agree that the gameboy micro is a bad idea, so lets just agree to disagree, but there are plenty of other points which still make me think twice about Nintendo's choices.

Like not making the revolution HD compatible. I understand that currently many people don't have high definition telivisions right now, but their popularity is growing. COME ON NINTENDO!

At least here in the US, HD is going to be shoved down consumer's throats whether we like it or not. By the end of 2007 (or 2006, not sure), the FCC is going to force all the TV stations to stop broadcasting their analog signal, and go all HD. This is the time where HD TVs are going to blossom and prices will fall to the point where people can actually afford them. Yes I know you'll have the choice to buy a set top box to convert the HD signal to analog so that they work on old TVs, but still, HD televisions will grow in popularity.

I don't know about you, but I'd LOVE to see ZELDA on the revolution in HD. I can't imagine how any zelda fans here wouldn't want to see that either. And if you don't have a HD TV, I'd be nice that you'd have the option to do so when/if you get one.

Nintendo needs to be looking forward. Poor choice of Nintendo to not make the Revolution (<- notice the name, how can something with this name not be->) HD compatible.

[ZildjianKX]

Alright, we obviously don't agree that the gameboy micro is a bad idea, so lets just agree to disagree, but there are plenty of other points which still make me think twice about Nintendo's choices.

Like not making the revolution HD compatible. I understand that currently many people don't have high definition telivisions right now, but their popularity is growing. COME ON NINTENDO!

At least here in the US, HD is going to be shoved down consumer's throats whether we like it or not. By the end of 2007 (or 2006, not sure), the FCC is going to force all the TV stations to stop broadcasting their analog signal, and go all HD. This is the time where HD TVs are going to blossom and prices will fall to the point where people can actually afford them. Yes I know you'll have the choice to buy a set top box to convert the HD signal to analog so that they work on old TVs, but still, HD televisions will grow in popularity.

I don't know about you, but I'd LOVE to see ZELDA on the revolution in HD. I can't imagine how any zelda fans here wouldn't want to see that either. And if you don't have a HD TV, I'd be nice that you'd have the option to do so when/if you get one.

Nintendo needs to be looking forward. Poor choice of Nintendo to not make the Revolution (<- notice the name, how can something with this name not be->) HD compatible.

I think your post is a bit misleading... the Revolution is HD compatible (much like the gamecube is capable of running in 720p, yet no games support it), the Revolution can as well, it is just not mandatory. We'll probably see the same thing that happened with the cube, where all first party games were 480p, we'll see all first party games being 720p for the revolution, meaning HD Zelda.

[TheMonarch]

"There currently are no plans for Nintendo Revolution to support high-definition video output," said Perrin Kaplan, Nintendo of America's vice president of marketing and corporate affairs.

Link (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/13/news_6127435.html)

Another (http://gc.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=5198)

And another (http://1080up.org/)

[GFLPraxis]

I think your post is a bit misleading... the Revolution is HD compatible (much like the gamecube is capable of running in 720p, yet no games support it), the Revolution can as well, it is just not mandatory. We'll probably see the same thing that happened with the cube, where all first party games were 480p, we'll see all first party games being 720p for the revolution, meaning HD Zelda.

The GameCube doesn't support 720p, just 480p.


Anyway, blaskillet4 is right on the HD front, I'm just hoping that its a misunderstanding and Nintendo meant that THEY aren't going to support HD but will leave it open as an option for developers.

Or Nintendo will give in to demand.

And blaskillet; you changed the quote.

It's:

“It is accurate that at this time we will not support high-definition [on Revolution],"

"WE will not support HD", not "Revolution will not support HD". It MAY mean the same thing, it may not.

[TheMonarch]

The GameCube doesn't support 720p, just 480p.


Anyway, blaskillet4 is right on the HD front, I'm just hoping that its a misunderstanding and Nintendo meant that THEY aren't going to support HD but will leave it open as an option for developers.

Or Nintendo will give in to demand.

And blaskillet; you changed the quote.

It's:

“It is accurate that at this time we will not support high-definition [on Revolution],"

"WE will not support HD", not "Revolution will not support HD". It MAY mean the same thing, it may not.

Now you're just being picky about the quote. Nintendo said it, what more do you ask for? And no, I didn't change the quote, it was apple+C'd then apple+V'd from the first link.

[ZildjianKX]

The GameCube doesn't support 720p, just 480p.


Anyway, blaskillet4 is right on the HD front, I'm just hoping that its a misunderstanding and Nintendo meant that THEY aren't going to support HD but will leave it open as an option for developers.

Or Nintendo will give in to demand.

And blaskillet; you changed the quote.

It's:

“It is accurate that at this time we will not support high-definition [on Revolution],"

"WE will not support HD", not "Revolution will not support HD". It MAY mean the same thing, it may not.

Well, even though the gamecube doesn't official support 720p, isn't it "capable?" I'm pretty sure 720p and 1080i weren't in the original specs for the PS2 but they later decided to impliment games with it. It just seems the HD bandwagon hit Nintendo as much as the online bandwagon did... :(

I'm going to pick up an Xbox 360 just for the mandatory 720p and 2xFSAA requirement put on developers.

[takao]

well one problem about HD is still the lack of broadcasting standards for PAL/SECAM ... they even haven't settled on a standard connecting port for it ...
so how can you make a console without knowing the way how the port looks ? .. well you can't and that's the problem (except for sony who simply choose the connector their HD-tvs have ;) )

that aside doesn't japan has a different hd standard as well ?


(that aside i have yet to be convinced of antialiasing...sure on still photographs it looks nice but even on the pc some edges start to 'flicker' extremly after enabling it so it ... personally i can't stand it )

[GFLPraxis]

Now you're just being picky about the quote. Nintendo said it, what more do you ask for? And no, I didn't change the quote, it was apple+C'd then apple+V'd from the first link.

Then the site you quoted it from editted it :s the original one was "at this time we will not be supporting HD".

Yeah, it's a nitpick. It may be insignificant, OR it may be an important difference.

[TheMonarch]

Then the site you quoted it from editted it :s the original one was "at this time we will not be supporting HD".

Yeah, it's a nitpick...

Its supposed to be "its", not "it :s"

Yeah, nitpicks can get annoying.

But my main point is that Nintendo is making some pretty dumb decisions, and generation after generation, they still haven't learned. I plan to get a revolution, and I'd really, really, like to see zelda in HD, but I don't see that happening. Nintendo should at least give us the option.

Here we are with Nintendo stuck at 640x480, while the PS3 is pulling off DUAL 1920x1080... Its so sad

[ZildjianKX]

Its supposed to be "its", not "it :s"

Yeah, nitpicks can get annoying.

But my main point is that Nintendo is making some pretty dumb decisions, and generation after generation, they still haven't learned. I plan to get a revolution, and I'd really, really, like to see zelda in HD, but I don't see that happening. Nintendo should at least give us the option.

Here we are with Nintendo stuck at 640x480, while the PS3 is pulling off DUAL 1920x1080... Its so sad

I agree Nintendo is really dropping the ball on this... between online play and HD (and MS is nailing both).

About the PS3, I think the dual 1080p is pretty much hype- that would really tax a videocard, we'll probably see dual 720p or dual 1080p with one screen being a "status" screen like the DS. So hard to trust Sony after they overhyped the PS2.

[takao]

Here we are with Nintendo stuck at 640x480, while the PS3 is pulling off DUAL 1920x1080... Its so sad

another nitpicking:
they are stuck at 768x576 PAL resolution ;)


that aside i haven't seen a HD-TV where the difference was big enough to make me shell out 1.500€ for a 720p screen..heck for that money i can buy computer screen plus updating my gaming rig


edit: i just looked through the promotial brochure i got at the xbox360 booth last weekend: and guess how often they mention HD-TV in any way ? once: "lucky the ones who are owning HD-TV"
how often "the marketplace" ? around 7 times excluding the 2 pages dedicated to that alone ;)

[raggedjimmi]

this is beautiful. i've seen this so often online so heres the answer that you can't complain at as its opinion :D

I don't care what Nintendo do. i dont care if the controller isn't what the world wants it to be. i want to play new Zelda and Metroid games. If another console can only play cheap clones then happy for them.

:)

i wont have a HDTV for years, not until i've finished university and started my career so personally, i dont care what Nintendo do!

[ccool2ax]

I'm not a fan of Nintendo, never have been. I liked the Genesis better than SuperNintendo. Playstation better than N64 and both Xbox and PS2 over ugly Game Cube. It's mostly the games I don't like, never got into arcade type games like Mario. It's the same game over and over which I find incredibly boring. Occasionally Nintendo somehow stumbles across a decent game to me, though it's very rare. Off hand, I can think of one game I really liked.. Goldeneye.

"Arcade-type"? i dont understand. I also dont understand how Xbox owners play redundant violent game after game, theyre all the same (Yes, even Halo to some extent): You shoot things. Next? Er... nothing.

There is room for all three though the irrational fanboys of each will not hesitate for a moment to tell you otherwise. Not only is there room for them, but Nintendo can sit semi-safely back because Sony and MS are both fighting for the same demographic groups while Nintendo rather handily claims the younger group since the other aren't going for them. The console wars are now between Sony and MS, Nintendo gets the ones they don't want.

Well said.

[TheMonarch]

another nitpicking:
they are stuck at 768x576 PAL resolution ;)


that aside i haven't seen a HD-TV where the difference was big enough to make me shell out 1.500€ for a 720p screen..heck for that money i can buy computer screen plus updating my gaming rig


edit: i just looked through the promotial brochure i got at the xbox360 booth last weekend: and guess how often they mention HD-TV in any way ? once: "lucky the ones who are owning HD-TV"
how often "the marketplace" ? around 7 times excluding the 2 pages dedicated to that alone ;)


Yeah, well I'm in the US. Here its 640x480 (<actually it IS more than 480, but due to a bunch of other reasons, only 480 is usable)

You guys get higher resolutions, but lower frame rates. Vice versa for us.

[TheMonarch]

another nitpicking:
they are stuck at 768x576 PAL resolution ;)


that aside i haven't seen a HD-TV where the difference was big enough to make me shell out 1.500€ for a 720p screen...


Oh, so the difference wasn't big enough... Okay :rolleyes: .

[ZildjianKX]

Oh, so the difference wasn't big enough... Okay :rolleyes: .

That's a great image you made.

Little off topic, but is standard NTSC signal just 480i? I always see a drastic diffference between standard NTSC and 480p, and besides the progressive part, does it also have a higher framerate? Just trying to figure out what accounts for the big visual difference.

[mrgreen4242]

That's a great image you made.

Little off topic, but is standard NTSC signal just 480i? I always see a drastic diffference between standard NTSC and 480p, and besides the progressive part, does it also have a higher framerate? Just trying to figure out what accounts for the big visual difference.

Yup, NTSC is 480i more or less. 480p does look great in my opinion as well. To be entirely honest, I think any interlaced signal looks like crap. 1080i looks nice as it's so high resolution, but if you look at it next to a 720p signal I think the 720p, despite having less overall pixels, looks better. The added crispness of the progressive scan image improves the sharpness so much, especially in high action sequences where things are covering the entire length of the screen in just a second or two.

The frame rate, technically, is the same, if I recall. The screen is redrawn 60 times per second. However, in 480i you are getting half the screen every frame, so you only see the entire 480 lines 30 times a second. With 480p you see the full frame 60 times per second.

[GFLPraxis]

That's a great image you made.

Little off topic, but is standard NTSC signal just 480i? I always see a drastic diffference between standard NTSC and 480p, and besides the progressive part, does it also have a higher framerate? Just trying to figure out what accounts for the big visual difference.

Interlaced means 60 half frames per second, or 30 full frames. Progressive means 60 full frames per second. So progressive is by definition twice the framerate.

[TheMonarch]

So let me get this straight. Most of you guys are OK with the fact that the revolution won't be HD compatible? And that its not a dumb decision on Nintendo's part?

[PlaceofDis]

So let me get this straight. Most of you guys are OK with the fact that the revolution won't be HD compatible? And that its not a dumb decision on Nintendo's part?

it might not be the best decision in the world, but hey if it can keep the hardware costs down... then it might be the right move. HDTVs really aren't all that popular right now, they are too expensive. They should offer the possibility of support though, for growth reasons, but there is no reason for it to be a mandatory implement from the get-go, just allow for the possibility of it at some point in the Rev. otherwise the could then screw themselves in the end.

[Lacero]

Interlaced means 60 half frames per second, or 30 full frames. Progressive means 60 full frames per second. So progressive is by definition twice the framerate.480i has a frame rate of 60 frames per second, but each frame is half the resolution. 480P has a frame rate of 30 frames per second, but each frame is full resolution. Does that make sense?

In other words, 480i provides more temporal resolution, while 480P provides more spatial resolution.

[raggedjimmi]

i dont care because, like i already said, the chances of me getting a HDTV in my room are very slim. my parents want a HDTV for the living room, but the amount of hours i put into games :D wouldn't be worth the hassle.

im saying in 5 years when im working i'll give a damn.

a HDTV is bottom of the list though. a car is the first thing i'm after, then the wedding... im in no rush :)

unless it really has got monitor output? that would be good.

[takao]

Oh, so the difference wasn't big enough... Okay :rolleyes: .

well are twice as much pixels really worth shelling out as much money just for a 720p TV ?
1080p fine sure they are really good.. but available ? nope affordable ? yeah in my dreams

personally i can't see myself shelling out money for a TV anyway as long as the current one works (perhaps i took that over from my parents who are on their second TV since marriage.. but the first one was actually bought before ;) )

[mrgreen4242]

480i has a frame rate of 60 frames per second, but each frame is half the resolution. 480P has a frame rate of 30 frames per second, but each frame is full resolution. Does that make sense?

In other words, 480i provides more temporal resolution, while 480P provides more spatial resolution.

That's not 100% true. SOME 480p is at 24 or 30 fps, but most 480p devices for home use (so, progressive scan DVD players) are a 60fps rate... however, they are taking a media that is usually used to/was intented for play 60fps interlaced video, so they will play the full frame for 2 1/60th of a second time slices. So it's LIKE 30fps.

However, that isn't true of media that is mastered/intended for progressive playback, as you CAN have a full 60 different frames per second. So, for example, a video in true 720p HD could be downsampled to a 480p EDTV and retain a full 60fps.

It's all very complicated, needlessly so imo, as there doesn't seem to be a standard in the true sense of the word. The "standard" seems to be this is how everyone does it and how it's been done in the past, so we will keep doing it, as opposed to everyone agreeing that this is the "best" way to do this and then doing it.

All that said, you will see a much better picture with a 480p display than with a 480i. You will see a better picture with a 1080i or a 720p display than with the 480p, and it's impossible to say which one of those (1080i or 720p) will look better to you as some people prefer a flickerless image and some like the higher pixel count. There are some new 1080p monitors that without a doubt must look amazing if you can find a 1080p signal to feed them.

[DrNeroCF]

Fact: Doom 3 looks better running on a 27 inch tv at the lowest resolution possible than it does running on my Powerbook monitor at a decent resolution.

[Flowbee]

So let me get this straight. Most of you guys are OK with the fact that the revolution won't be HD compatible? And that its not a dumb decision on Nintendo's part?

I'm a pretty techno-centric consumer, but for some reason I'm in no rush to jump onto the HDTV bandwagon. I'm perfectly happy with my current set and imagine I will be for at least the next several years... by which time we'll all be talking about the Revolution2. :D

To me HDTV is like a video iPod... it fulfills a need that I just don't have.

[TheMonarch]

Fact: Doom 3 looks better running on a 27 inch tv at the lowest resolution possible than it does running on my Powerbook monitor at a decent resolution.


Fact: The lowest resolution possible, is your TV's native resolution.

[applekid]

So let me get this straight. Most of you guys are OK with the fact that the revolution won't be HD compatible? And that its not a dumb decision on Nintendo's part?

As far as that's concerned, I'm pretty much OK that Revolution won't be HD compatible. I don't have an HDTV myself, so hell I care. And, by the time the next generation consoles come around, I am really not banking on HDTVs to be standard or even in 50% of homes in the US, despite what the projections say. I haven't seen prices for HDTVs being slashed drastically. Would I prefer Nintendo to have HDTV support? Sure. But, it's not going to be something to make me say "Nintendo is retarded."

And, as far as Revolution's HDTV support is concerned, I still say it's up in the air. They have time to announce a change if they feel like it because it seems there's been a lot of voices wanting HDTV support, and we've got till TGS for an announcement of Revolution and its features.

It's all about the gameplay, not the graphics.

[PlaceofDis]

It's all about the gameplay, not the graphics.


thank you!!!!

specs dont matter, its how things end up in the end that do.

[GFLPraxis]

480i has a frame rate of 60 frames per second, but each frame is half the resolution. 480P has a frame rate of 30 frames per second, but each frame is full resolution. Does that make sense?

In other words, 480i provides more temporal resolution, while 480P provides more spatial resolution.

Not quite. The first is every odd and the second frame is every even. It's sixty half-frames per second, as I said, and you end up seeing 30 full frames.

480p has the same 60 FPS framerate, but they're full frames. 480p is 60 FPS.

[GFLPraxis]

So let me get this straight. Most of you guys are OK with the fact that the revolution won't be HD compatible? And that its not a dumb decision on Nintendo's part?

No; I would RATHER it be HD, and think it'd be smarter to with HD, but I also think that at this point it will only hurt them in the hardcore market, and the average consumers don't even really know what HD really is even if they have a HDTV other than "It looks better".

So I don't think that it's going to cause the Revolution to fail, and it's not going to make the games any different. I just wish it had HD, but I'm not going to buy a console based on whether it has HD.

[TheMonarch]

thank you!!!!

specs dont matter, its how things end up in the end that do.

I know its not all about graphics, I even said that myself earlier in this thread

I know its mostly about the games, just like its mostly about osx on a mac. But we all know that the hardware has something, because we all love how our macs look.

Just HD TVs aren't too popular Now, doesn't mean they won't in the future. Like I said, here in the US, HD TV is going to be shoved down our throats, and thats the time when HD TVs are supposed to gain massive ground (and be cheaper). I'd just like Nintendo to be looking forward.

For those of you who say the reason Nintendo isn't supporting HD is to keep the price down; Nintendo uses proprietary connectors anyways, so why couldn't they just give us the option to buy a $30 HD connector? Don't want HD, then don't buy the connector.

Just think, Zelda in HD (It makes me drool just thinking of it)

EDIT: I just read this:
Q: Will Revolution hook up to a television?

A: Yes. It will also be able to interface with a computer monitor. In June 2004 Nintendo engineer Genyo Takeda said: "You'll be able to play [Revolution] not just by linking up to a television but to a computer monitor as well." Source (http://cube.ign.com/articles/522/522559p2.html)

Now we know that many, many of us could take advantage of HD, if the revolution offered it.

[.Andy]

For me HD is a non event as far as features go with this rev of consoles. I personally think Nintendo has made the right decision. Here in Aus I think they've only sold about a dozen HD televisions so far ;). I'm certainly in no hurry to get an HD television to watch the rubbish they put on tele. Rather spend the money on a holiday.

This (http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=478) macpolls might be interesting as well. You'd have to admit the macrumors types are quite savvy as far as technology goes and even only 34% of us have HD televisions. So the extra consoles Nintendo sell because they're a bit cheaper will probably well outweigh sales that are lost due to it not having HD in the general population.

As far as the talk about HD being forced down our throats I think it's bit bit of rubbish at the moment. That date will definitely get pushed back. And back. And back.

[Lacero]

480p has the same 60 FPS framerate, but they're full frames. 480p is 60 FPS.Are you sure? Unless NTSC has some new 480P standard I've never heard of, then you're wrong. NTSC runs either 60 interlaced or 30 progressive. There is no such thing as 60P on standard NTSC TVs.

[TheMonarch]

For me HD is a non event as far as features go with this rev of consoles. I personally think Nintendo has made the right decision. Here in Aus I think they've only sold about a dozen HD televisions so far ;). I'm certainly in no hurry to get an HD television to watch the rubbish they put on tele. Rather spend the money on a holiday.

This (http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=478) macpolls might be interesting as well. You'd have to admit the macrumors types are quite savvy as far as technology goes and even only 34% of us have HD televisions. So the extra consoles Nintendo sell because they're a bit cheaper will probably well outweigh sales that are lost due to it not having HD in the general population.

As far as the talk about HD being forced down our throats I think it's bit bit of rubbish at the moment. That date will definitely get pushed back. And back. And back.

I still can't bring myself to think that Nintendo made the right choice in not supporting HD. And 34% is a big number, and its expected to grow. Thats more than 1/3, and Nintendo wouldn't have to make the console more expensive as all they'd have to do is sell the HD connector separately.
Also, If you read my earlier post, Nintendo said that the revolution will be able to connect to a computer monitor. I'm sure that WAY more than 34% of us here could support some form of HD using their computer monitors, so no huge purchases would be required to enjoy HD on the revolution (unless of course you wanted to).

It would suck to connect it to a computer monitor and be limited to the lowest resolution it could support.



Oh, and Lacero is right. its either 480i at 60fps or 480p at 30fps


Cm'on look at this, who wouldn't want to? (pardon the crappy photoshop, but you get the idea)

[GFLPraxis]

Are you sure? Unless NTSC has some new 480P standard I've never heard of, then you're wrong. NTSC runs either 60 interlaced or 30 progressive. There is no such thing as 60P on standard NTSC TVs.

Sorry, you're completely incorrect about that :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_scan

It is because progressive scan draws 60 full frames a second instead of 60 half-frames that the eye sees a much smoother motion. This motion therefore shows less flicker than interlaced scan, while also significantly reducing the visibility of the individual scan lines.

http://www.plasma.com/classroom/Proscanexplained.htm

We learned above that an interlaced display shows 60 fields per second. But with progressive, each "field" is now a complete picture including all scan lines, top to bottom, so we will now call it a frame, and we are showing 60 of those per second. (Of course, only 24 of those are unique if the source is film based) The benefits of a progressive display are no flicker, scan lines are much less visible (permitting closer seating to the display), and they have none of the artifacts we described for the interlaced display, as long as the source material is progressive in nature (film or a progressive video camera).

[.Andy]

I still can't bring myself to think that Nintendo made the right choice in not supporting HD. And 34% is a big number, and its expected to grow. Thats more than 1/3, and Nintendo wouldn't have to make the console more expensive as all they'd have to do is sell the HD connector separately.
Yeah but that's only 1/3 of tech savvy people owning an HD television. What I'm saying is that the percentage out in the public is likely to be far lower. Expected to grow means nothing if it's wasted on the majority of people. The extra $$ per console would be far better going into reducing the revolution price to appeal to more of the market.

Also, If you read my earlier post, Nintendo said that the revolution will be able to connect to a computer monitor. I'm sure that WAY more than 34% of us here could support some form of HD using their computer monitors, so no huge purchases would be required to enjoy HD on the revolution (unless of course you wanted to).
No Huge purchases? What's the cheapest HD monitor worth out there? How many people do you know who have a monitor that supports HD? The people here (myself included) spend an abnormal amount of money on computers and monitors. It's not the majority of people out there. We are by no means a representation of the population. And currently the market trend is away from desktop setups and onto laptops. People are probably even less likely to buy HD monitors in the future.

Also connecting to a monitor through VGA is connecting to a monitor - that quote doesn't necessarily mean via DVI or HDMI. As much as I'd live it to hook up to my ACD.

[TheMonarch]

Nintendo only needs to spend a little more to make the revolution physically capable of supporting HD, they don't have to ship all the required components in the revolution box. And some of that money can be made back by selling 'HD kits' for those who desire to do so.

And the 'major purchase' can easily be a cheapo dell system for $679, which includes a 17" flat panel at 1280x1024, which by definition, supports HD (720p). And dell being the biggest supplier, its safe to say that a lot of people could connect their monitor to the revolution. I only showed an ACD because it like the way it looks.

[GFLPraxis]

Nintendo only needs to spend a little more to make the revolution physically capable of supporting HD, they don't have to ship all the required components in the revolution box. And some of that money can be made back by selling 'HD kits' for those who desire to do so.

And the 'major purchase' can easily be a cheapo dell system for $679, which includes a 17" flat panel at 1280x1024, which by definition, supports HD (720p). And dell being the biggest supplier, its safe to say that a lot of people could connect their monitor to the revolution. I only showed an ACD because it like the way it looks.

How do you know they won't do that?

All they said was that they won't be supporting HD AT THIS TIME. It's conceivable they sell HD kits at a later time or something.

[Macamus Prime]

How do you know they won't do that?

All they said was that they won't be supporting HD AT THIS TIME. It's conceivable they sell HD kits at a later time or something.

Dude, I LOVE Nintendo. But look at the their track record for bringing something in "at a later time."

- N64 Disk Drive. Sure it was released in Japan, but no where else.
- Gamecube and GBA connectivity. Touted in E3 2004,... and thats all she wrote. Where does this connectivity stand now?? Read the latest issue of EGM. They interview Miyamoto about it. It's interesting what his thoughts are on it, about 1 year later.
- The Gamecube has an online adapter. Wasn't used for anything else other than Phantasy Star.

Nintendo doesn't exaclty have a steller record for adding to their hardware. I am not holding my breath for HD kits and I honestly do not see them happening.

Again, this isn't a knock at Nintendo. Its just what I expect from them.

[greatdevourer]

So let me get this straight. Most of you guys are OK with the fact that the revolution won't be HD compatible? And that its not a dumb decision on Nintendo's part? My guess is it's because...
1) The GameCube had HDTV and almost no-one used it (literally, a few thousand)
2) The US and Japan do not have a unified HDTV standard

Plus, as said by someone else, it will have a DVI port (well, I guess it's gonna be DVI), which probably means some form of HD, even if it isn't true HDTV (iirc, comp widescreen is 16:9, but TV is 16:10 or the other way round)

Dude, I LOVE Nintendo. But look at the their track record for bringing something in "at a later time."

- N64 Disk Drive. Sure it was released in Japan, but no where else.
- Gamecube and GBA connectivity. Touted in E3 2004,... and thats all she wrote. Where does this connectivity stand now?? Read the latest issue of EGM. They interview Miyamoto about it. It's interesting what his thoughts are on it, about 1 year later.
- The Gamecube has an online adapter. Wasn't used for anything else other than Phantasy Star.

Nintendo doesn't exaclty have a steller record for adding to their hardware. I am not holding my breath for HD kits and I honestly do not see them happening.

Again, this isn't a knock at Nintendo. Its just what I expect from them. Yes, but that's because those addons were, in short, useless. They required extra a lot of extra programming to work in. However, for HDTV, you just set the animation engine to crunch it down less.

[raggedjimmi]

And then theres the tech they promised and delivered. Infrared on the GBC. only a few games used it but it was loved. same for the GBA's new wireless adapter (as seen in the pokemon games). didn't they promise the Wavebird a year before it was released too?

in Japan they said they'd release the Satellite download system. and hey presto, they did.

I dont know about anyone else here but i love the GBA>GC link cable. Updating my Metroid Prime/Fusion games, battling my mates on Pokemon Colosseum, co-op on Windwaker. but the greatest yet is Zelda: Four Swords. Most probably the greatest multiplayer game ever, maybe even surpassing Smash Bros.

if its useless it won't be released. if its needed. say, HDTV really takes off in anywhere else other than the US then Nintendo will release a convertor or whatever to work with a HDTV. i know the US is a big place, but i doubt if they're the only ones with HDTV then Nintendo won't bother.

[mrgreen4242]

As for the whole question of HD on the Rev. I am going to speculate that Nintendo will not offer true HD quality at pretty much any point of this consoles life cycle... what I do think is that they will have all games running at 480p standard (640x480) or widescreen (so 852x480 if memory serves) with an external converter that will downmix it to analog/interlaced video.

Here's my logic... almost all HDTVs can display a good 480p image (there are some Plasmas that don't scale non native resolutions very well, but for the most part this is true). 480p does really look very nice... a DVD in a progressive scan player on a decent TV with component or SVideo connection looks sharp. Suer, 780p looks better, but for the most part, 480p looks pretty darn good.

By keeping the resolution fixed at about 50% of what the 720p machines are going to have to push they can do a lot more with a lot less. I will not be suprised at all if the Revolution launches at $199, and can pull off (resolution aside) visuals that are just a good as the $400 PS3/XBox360. Aside from keeping hardware costs down, cost of game development is going to be kept down for the Revolution. A big reason for the $60 price tag on next gen titles is going to be paying more artists to create larger more detailed textures that will look good at 1280x720.

Yes, the Revolution may not look quite as detailed and sharp at 480p as the competition, but it will cost half as much, games will be 20% cheaper, AND it will still look pretty damn good. (Go watch a DVD on any HDTV and then on a regular TV. That's the difference we would see from GC to Rev. I feel that's good enough).

[applekid]

Okay, if HDTV was to be supported in later revision of the console, Nintendo is going to need more than just add a port and the proper cables with the machine. Getting HDTV resolutions requires a high-end graphics processor that the X-Box 360 and PS3 have. If Nintendo decides to stay without HDTV, it's going be hard to release a revision later on to support HDTV if the graphics processor isn't going to be able to handle it. So, if Nintendo wants HDTV, they need to support it now. Now or never. That's how I feel about that.

Also, you're just in awe that the X-Box 360 and PS3 can handle such high HDTV resolutions aren't you? Only games from the first couple of years will probably be able to handle a full, steady 30 or 60 FPS at those high resolutions. I don't think either machine has a strong enough graphics processor for games that are already graphically heavy to be able to pull off a HDTV resolution at a smooth speed. Games like Halo 2 already have tons of glitches with HDTV resolution, so I just don't think future games will be able to have enjoyable performance. Sure, the Cell processor, nVidia's graphics processor, and G5s sound great on paper, but you really think they can pull off good performance in reality? Sony has been known for overhyping with all products including the PS2 which showed its age very quickly compared to the X-Box or GameCube. And with Microsoft demanding games have 2x anti-aliasing, keeping games at high-end HDTV resolutions running at a good speed isn't going to stay feasible for long.

And like I said before, I don't think the HDTV projections are very accurate. People aren't going to convert that fast.

[GFLPraxis]

Okay, if HDTV was to be supported in later revision of the console, Nintendo is going to need more than just add a port and the proper cables with the machine. Getting HDTV resolutions requires a high-end graphics processor that the X-Box 360 and PS3 have. If Nintendo decides to stay without HDTV, it's going be hard to release a revision later on to support HDTV if the graphics processor isn't going to be able to handle it. So, if Nintendo wants HDTV, they need to support it now. Now or never. That's how I feel about that.

Also, you're just in awe that the X-Box 360 and PS3 can handle such high HDTV resolutions aren't you? Only games from the first couple of years will probably be able to handle a full, steady 30 or 60 FPS at those high resolutions. I don't think either machine has a strong enough graphics processor for games that are already graphically heavy to be able to pull off a HDTV resolution at a smooth speed. Games like Halo 2 already have tons of glitches with HDTV resolution, so I just don't think future games will be able to have enjoyable performance. Sure, the Cell processor, nVidia's graphics processor, and G5s sound great on paper, but you really think they can pull off good performance in reality? Sony has been known for overhyping with all products including the PS2 which showed its age very quickly compared to the X-Box or GameCube. And with Microsoft demanding games have 2x anti-aliasing, keeping games at high-end HDTV resolutions running at a good speed isn't going to stay feasible for long.

And like I said before, I don't think the HDTV projections are very accurate. People aren't going to convert that fast.

Actually, they're designing their graphics cards for high resolutions. Microsoft's card has special hardware set aside to do anti-aliasing without taxing the GPU. So I don't think HD resolutions at a stable FPS will be too difficult.


And BTW, none of the consoles have G5 processors.

And Nintendo WILL have a high end GPU; they said they expect the visuals will be similar to the competitors.

[greatdevourer]

Okay, if HDTV was to be supported in later revision of the console, Nintendo is going to need more than just add a port and the proper cables with the machine. Getting HDTV resolutions requires a high-end graphics processor that the X-Box 360 and PS3 have. If Nintendo decides to stay without HDTV, it's going be hard to release a revision later on to support HDTV if the graphics processor isn't going to be able to handle it. So, if Nintendo wants HDTV, they need to support it now. Now or never. That's how I feel about that. Erm... Hate to break it to you, but power does not equal ports. Radeon 9000 has 2 DVI ports (well, 1 DVI and 1 ADC, but as ADC is just DVI's older brother, it's the same), whereas the 9800 has just 1 DVI port and a slower VGA port. Guess which is faster? Just because it doesn't have the ports, it doesn't mean it doesn't pack the punch

[applekid]

Erm... Hate to break it to you, but power does not equal ports. Radeon 9000 has 2 DVI ports (well, 1 DVI and 1 ADC, but as ADC is just DVI's older brother, it's the same), whereas the 9800 has just 1 DVI port and a slower VGA port. Guess which is faster? Just because it doesn't have the ports, it doesn't mean it doesn't pack the punch

However, with Nintendo, I'm just assuming Nintendo is taking some punch out of their GPU because they aren't supporting higher resolutions. That's all.

[TheMonarch]

Some of you guys just don't get it!
The whole "There us no unified HD standard" is total BS. All of these consoles will have proprietary connections on them so that you have to buy accessories from them and not a cheap $2 Radiosack cable. Again the HD kits!!! They don't have to give us anything special out of the box, they can just sell those kits like the xbox component kit added optical audio.

They don't have to slap their developers in the face and demand HD, but at least give them the OPTION, I repeat OPTION. And since some games that are on the xbox and ps2 will already be in HD, then porting them to the revolution shouldn't force the developers to have to 'downgrade' to SD, since they already did all the work to make sure it runs fine in HD. Most of the work would already be done.

Its not possible to release a 'converter' for the revolution at a later time, if the machine isn't Physically capable of displaying HD in the first place, just like you can't take a 1 megapixel image and turn it into a 5 megapixel image.

Oh and if a game is set to run in HD, it is easy to tell it to 'downgrade' to SD, just as easy as it is to change the resolution in WoW, Halo, and pretty much any other game.

And raggedjimmi, count all the 'holes'/ports on the bottom of the gamecube, N64,super nintendo. Most of those have a story behind them from Nintendo, and most weren't ever used.

[Macamus Prime]

Yes, but that's because those addons were, in short, useless.

Online capability is USELESS?? With XBox Live's 2 million subscribers, I don't think online for a console system is useless.

some examples:
- KOTOR, you got an extra level and gear.
- DOOM 3 & Splinter Cell, stellar CO-OP.
- SW BattleFront, gets pretty boring playing by yourself. Go online and even download a new level!
- Crimson Skies, EXCELLENT XBox Live game.

Extra programing, yes. Useless, no.

[raggedjimmi]

And raggedjimmi, count all the 'holes'/ports on the bottom of the gamecube, N64,super nintendo. Most of those have a story behind them from Nintendo, and most weren't ever used.

funny. im using 2 out of 3 underside ports on my Cube; GB Player and the broadband adapter. both are used at least a couple of times a week.

The PS2 has the harddrive option too, in that big empty shell. same as with the GC's ports; a minority of people use the ports on both systems.

As for the N64, it had that huge DD port didn't it? as did the Amiga (1986) and a plethora of other consoles in history. im congratulating Sony too on adding ports even if most people don't use them. better to add ports that may turn out useless.

hang on a minute. back to the Micro argument. didn't Sony recently release a miniaturized PS2 that didnt have a HDD port? gawd :rolleyes: re-releasing old tech is so stoopid

[greatdevourer]

Online capability is USELESS?? With XBox Live's 2 million subscribers, I don't think online for a console system is useless.

some examples:
- KOTOR, you got an extra level and gear.
- DOOM 3 & Splinter Cell, stellar CO-OP.
- SW BattleFront, gets pretty boring playing by yourself. Go online and even download a new level!
- Crimson Skies, EXCELLENT XBox Live game.

Extra programing, yes. Useless, no. The other 2 were near useless, but the problem was that it was an addon that was brought in too late to establish a userbase. Sure, the PS2 adapter worked, but that was because there are so many PS2 owners. The GC adapter was near useless due to the fact that there was no-one to play against without xiaLink

Some of you guys just don't get it!
The whole "There us no unified HD standard" is total BS :rolleyes: Er... we were talking about the TVs. Not the consoles

[TheMonarch]

Raggedjimmi, you truly are something :rolleyes:

I hope you realize that I just made you say what you and other people wouldn't say.

better to add ports that may turn out useless.

Ooh, what could one of those ports be? Hmm?

Could it be an HD video port? Hmm?
As you said, a minority of people could use those ports. It may also be a significant number. Who knows. The point is that it should be there.

EDIT: Your post only made my argument stronger

[doucy2]

i think we should all just grow up and stop playing nintendo
i played gbc when i was around 10-12 and then got a gba
and it went downhill from there

[eva01]

wow what an arrogant uninformed post by doucy2.

there will always be a few in the bunch eh?

The #1 selling handheld in the world right now is the DS and it has all gone down since he gbc?

[greatdevourer]

i think we should all just grow up and stop playing nintendo
i played gbc when i was around 10-12 and then got a gba
and it went downhill from there You're the one here who needs to grow up here

[ohcrap]

lol wow...

[doucy2]

just voicing my opinion
i was proved wrong by facts
i am not a proponent for any type of hand helds

[greatdevourer]

just voicing my opinion
i was proved wrong by facts
i am not a proponent for any type of hand helds It's just that
That's a common and crap opinion
Almost as this haiku posting

[Yvan256]

I never thought a mac forum could be so stupid. -_-

Yeah. People using computers that don't even make up 5% of the marketshare saying that a profitable game company will die because they might be dropping below 25% marketshare (Xbox being the other 25%, Playstation being 50%).

As long as Nintendo keeps making good games, I'll buy them. And whatever hardware is required to play said games. Just like I bought a Mac mini to run OS X. I didn't want to "get a Mac", I wanted a good OS. A Mac just happened to be on the requirements list for OS X, just like I needed to buy a Gamecube to play Metroid Prime.

[GFLPraxis]

Some of you guys just don't get it!
The whole "There us no unified HD standard" is total BS. All of these consoles will have proprietary connections on them so that you have to buy accessories from them and not a cheap $2 Radiosack cable. Again the HD kits!!! They don't have to give us anything special out of the box, they can just sell those kits like the xbox component kit added optical audio.

They don't have to slap their developers in the face and demand HD, but at least give them the OPTION, I repeat OPTION. And since some games that are on the xbox and ps2 will already be in HD, then porting them to the revolution shouldn't force the developers to have to 'downgrade' to SD, since they already did all the work to make sure it runs fine in HD. Most of the work would already be done.

Its not possible to release a 'converter' for the revolution at a later time, if the machine isn't Physically capable of displaying HD in the first place, just like you can't take a 1 megapixel image and turn it into a 5 megapixel image.

Oh and if a game is set to run in HD, it is easy to tell it to 'downgrade' to SD, just as easy as it is to change the resolution in WoW, Halo, and pretty much any other game.

And raggedjimmi, count all the 'holes'/ports on the bottom of the gamecube, N64,super nintendo. Most of those have a story behind them from Nintendo, and most weren't ever used.

And how do you know the Revolution will not be physically capable? They said it will hook to a computer monitor. Assuming DVI, how much will a DVI-to-HDTV adapter cost? All Nintendo has to do is add the software side support.

[GFLPraxis]

Yeah. People using computers that don't even make up 5% of the marketshare saying that a profitable game company will die because they might be dropping below 25% marketshare (Xbox being the other 25%, Playstation being 50%).

As long as Nintendo keeps making good games, I'll buy them. And whatever hardware is required to play said games. Just like I bought a Mac mini to run OS X. I didn't want to "get a Mac", I wanted a good OS. A Mac just happened to be on the requirements list for OS X, just like I needed to buy a Gamecube to play Metroid Prime.

Nitpick; XBox and GameCube are both 15%, and Playstation is a whopping 70%.
But yeah, fully agree.

[GFLPraxis]

However, with Nintendo, I'm just assuming Nintendo is taking some punch out of their GPU because they aren't supporting higher resolutions. That's all.

By Nintendo's comments, they expect to have the same level of power as their competitors.

The "gameplay is more important than graphics" phrase is the SAME THING they used last generation to explain why they chose some things like more expensive 1T-SRAM and other system components to make the system easier to develop for rather than more powerful (and still ended up kicking the PS2's pants).

[TheMonarch]

And how do you know the Revolution will not be physically capable? They said it will hook to a computer monitor. Assuming DVI, how much will a DVI-to-HDTV adapter cost? All Nintendo has to do is add the software side support.

Do you have a mental disability of some sort? Can you not comprehend what has been said all this time? NINTENDO said that they aren't supporting HD on the revolution, not their software... REVOLUTION!!! If the hardware (not just the the physical port) doesn't have the physical ability to support HD in the first place, how can software support make it do so? Its like trying to add HD to the gamecube, sure it sports a fancy video connection (for the virtually nonexistent component video cables [extremely hard to find]), but there is no way in hell you're going to get above 480p, even if the software wanted it to.

And when was the last time any 3D console had a standard video connection built in? None of the consoles today have one. Its all proprietary and use interchangeable cables. So can't assume DVI without an add on. I'm going to assume the revolution is going to use the same audio/video connection its been using since the super nintendo. I have high hopes that nintendo will change its mind. But as it stands, its a really dumb decision (especially since some of the games that will be on all 3 systems will be in HD (for the xbox and PS2, and having to downgrade it for the revolution to SD, would be such a waste.)

I totally agree that its mostly about the games, but still, options are nice.

[.Andy]

Do you have a mental disability of some sort? Can you not comprehend what has been said all this time?
Pop a woofer valve why don't ya blaskillet ;)!

Here is as how stands;

People who couldn't really be miffed and will be happy because they don't have the cash to burn for an HD TV or an HD monitor = at the very least 66% of the population.

People that think that adding HD is an OMGWTFBBQ DUMB IDEA = you + my friend philip.

:p

[maka]

Nintendo is alive and well, and in overall sales it outsold both Sony and Microsoft in 2004 in Japan and in the US. Read:

http://nintendo.about.com/od/editorials/a/gamestatistics_2.htm

http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEFylpkElFffmiBlr.php

Nintendo ended its most recent fiscal year with its net profit skyrocketing 163% over the previous year. Next year, it expects to pull in another 75 billion yen in net profit; in comparison, Sony as an entire company (including the electronics division, games division, etc) expects to bring in 80 billion yen. And Nintendo only makes video games.

They're doing quite well for a "retarded" company, aren't they? :D

[greatdevourer]

Do you have a mental disability of some sort? Can you not comprehend what has been said all this time? NINTENDO said that they aren't supporting HD on the revolution, not their software... REVOLUTION!!! If the hardware (not just the the physical port) doesn't have the physical ability to support HD in the first place, how can software support make it do so? Its like trying to add HD to the gamecube, sure it sports a fancy video connection (for the virtually nonexistent component video cables [extremely hard to find]), but there is no way in hell you're going to get above 480p, even if the software wanted it to.

And when was the last time any 3D console had a standard video connection built in? None of the consoles today have one. Its all proprietary and use interchangeable cables. So can't assume DVI without an add on. I'm going to assume the revolution is going to use the same audio/video connection its been using since the super nintendo. I have high hopes that nintendo will change its mind. But as it stands, its a really dumb decision (especially since some of the games that will be on all 3 systems will be in HD (for the xbox and PS2, and having to downgrade it for the revolution to SD, would be such a waste.)

I totally agree that its mostly about the games, but still, options are nice. As said before, it's not the PS2/XBox/GC that don't share a standard, it's Japan/US/Europe that don't share a standard. Much more fundemental
The GameCube had an HD port, so I guess they'll use that or an evolution of it. DVI is still HD, just not HDTV (different aspect ratio)

Plus, at the beginning, I thought you said you liked Ninty? To be perfectly honest, you sound like one of those "omgzz0rs!!1! Nintendo is for kids! Sony/M$ is for 31337 h4xx0rs like me!!11eleven!" people

[Macamus Prime]

You know, this thread reminds me a lot of when PeeCee zombies troll around and tell us how laughable current Mac hardware is.

OK, OK. We get it. You don't like Nintendo for whatever reason. And if something happens to the Big N, tell us you told us so. Of course, by that time, we will forget who you are and this thread won't exist - so be sure to remind us again.

In the mean time, NO ONE is forcing you to buy Nintendo or their next gen hardware. You don't like it, you simply don't buy it! If what you think means there is nothing but DOOM for Nintendo, then go on thinking that. We'll just be over here, playing our Resident Evil, Mario Kart, Metriod, Animal Crossing, Mario, Zelda, F-Zero, and Metal Gear ON HARDWARE that has not hindered or stifled these games in anyway. Im sure the same will apply to any future systems made by Nintendo.

[raggedjimmi]

it seems like Blastkillet is getting a little angry, insulting GFLPraxis like that, but heres something;

my girlfriend made a good point once. that a lot of PS2/Xbox lovers have that kind of "you're a f@g" sort of attitude because hey! not everyone likes your kind of games! she said that its good to have PS2 and Xbox because the empty heads can go there and fight it out. keeping the idiot games from the GC.

another example is are these 2 forums im on. 1 was big and everyone bitched all the time, and the other (the one i was in) was quiet and peaceful. a lot of people used to wish the big one would crumble and die, but a very smart mate said that its good there is a place for these people to go; it keeps our site clean.
wise words no?

and what i meant by my ports post was that supposed to be aimed at 'ports that dont add anything to cost'. the GC has 3 underside ports and yet is the cheapest :) sure you could add a solid gold Saffron finding port... but if it adds to the cost then its a bad idea.
you want to talk about getting things mixed up you might want to clarify if you like Metroid or not. you just keep ping ponging around there ;)

[generationxwing]

OK, first, I'm a huge fan of the big N...


But I hate to see it shoot itself in the foot constantly. I'm talking about the new GB coming out soon, the GB MICRO ... umm... WTF?!

The screen will not be WAY to small, and its not clamshell anymore, something people LOVED about the SP. Why take it away? The DS is clamshell, so why is the Micro not?


Wait, why even release the Micro? :confused:
Its making something nearly perfect, and making it worse. Do we really need another GBA revision?
Yeah, it sucks man! What sucks more is that you're forced to buy it. Nintendo's released it, gotta buy it! You have no choice in the matter whatsoever.

Cripes, let it go...

[ohcrap]

I've got to say, this is the dumbest thread I've probably ever read in my life. I'm not saying that to be insulting, what I mean is that who the **** cares about any of this ****, really? No matter what any of you know-it-all's think or say, none of these companies are going to change what they are doing, so instead of whining back and forth like children, why don't we just wait and see what comes out, and then choose to either buy or not buy?

generationxwing said it best.. let it go..

[GFLPraxis]

Do you have a mental disability of some sort? Can you not comprehend what has been said all this time? NINTENDO said that they aren't supporting HD on the revolution, not their software... REVOLUTION!!! If the hardware (not just the the physical port) doesn't have the physical ability to support HD in the first place, how can software support make it do so? Its like trying to add HD to the gamecube, sure it sports a fancy video connection (for the virtually nonexistent component video cables [extremely hard to find]), but there is no way in hell you're going to get above 480p, even if the software wanted it to.

And when was the last time any 3D console had a standard video connection built in? None of the consoles today have one. Its all proprietary and use interchangeable cables. So can't assume DVI without an add on. I'm going to assume the revolution is going to use the same audio/video connection its been using since the super nintendo. I have high hopes that nintendo will change its mind. But as it stands, its a really dumb decision (especially since some of the games that will be on all 3 systems will be in HD (for the xbox and PS2, and having to downgrade it for the revolution to SD, would be such a waste.)

I totally agree that its mostly about the games, but still, options are nice.



Again, if the system has DVI output like they've said, and a graphics card on the same level as the competition as they've said, adding HD support via an adapter at a later point in time is feasable. Both of those are BY THEIR OWN COMMENTS. They said they're not going to support it. They didn't say it'd be physically incapable. But we'll see.

I wonder if YOU have a comprehension disability, since you fail to understand the fact that I've been AGREEING with you that its not a smart decision to support HD, you're just too dense to understand that.

I think it'd be smarter to support HD, and I would RATHER THEM SUPPORT HD, but it's not going to kill them if they don't.


Like ohcrap said; just let it go.

[TheMonarch]

Alright. I'm not here to make any foes. I don't want this to be an unfriendly place. So, I'm sorry if I insulted any of you, its just hard to get what what I want to say across when this thread starts to spin in circles. But I also made sure I didn't break any of the forum rules by calling you retarded or an idiot (I only ask if you had some thing to tell me).

I do like the big N, I am forced to buy their hardware because of their games (because in the end its what matters the most [not all]).

And Macamus Prime, I'm not a troll, I had some fact based arguments. I didn't say Nintendo is going to die because of it. I said it was a dumb choice.

[conditionals]

And Macamus Prime, I'm not a troll, I had some fact based arguments. I didn't say Nintendo is going to die because of it. I said it was a dumb choice.

They're not dumb, just totally whacked out crazy marketing failure-splosion bots. It often looks like stupidity, and sometimes people can't follow it (like me, who is moving away from nintendo after 15 years of making-yoshi-sock-puppet dedication), but they continue to make profit, make megabucks, and create hardcore fans. Confounding but, alas, unquestionable tactics.

[maka]

They're not dumb, just totally whacked out crazy marketing failure-splosion bots. It often looks like stupidity, and sometimes people can't follow it (like me, who is moving away from nintendo after 15 years of making-yoshi-sock-puppet dedication), but they continue to make profit, make megabucks, and create hardcore fans. Confounding but, alas, unquestionable tactics.

Because they keep on doing good games with a focus on great and usually innovative gameplay :)

[Macamus Prime]

,...like me, who is moving away from nintendo after 15 years of making-yoshi-sock-puppet dedication,....

Do you mean that Nintendo is making too many kiddie games?

If so, have you ever heard of the following:
- Resident Evil
- Resident Evil 0
- Resident Evil 2, 3 & Code: Veronica ports
- Resident Evil 4
- Metal Gear
- Killer 7

[Macamus Prime]

I'm not here to make any foes. I don't want this to be an unfriendly place.

Well, its a good thing you cleared THAT up,.....

:rolleyes:

[ZildjianKX]

Do you mean that Nintendo is making too many kiddie games?

If so, have you ever heard of the following:
- Resident Evil
- Resident Evil 0
- Resident Evil 2, 3 & Code: Veronica ports
- Resident Evil 4
- Metal Gear
- Killer 7

Ummm... Nintendo didn't make any of those...

[greatdevourer]

Ummm... Nintendo didn't make any of those...
I guess what he meant is that "Nintendo only have kiddie games?". I guess. I hope so :rolleyes:

But, people who say "Nintendo is only for kids" need to actually have a look at the GameCube shelf. There are a suprising number of 18s and high-15s

[raggedjimmi]

I guess what he meant is that "Nintendo only have kiddie games?". I guess. I hope so :rolleyes:

But, people who say "Nintendo is only for kids" need to actually have a look at the GameCube shelf. There are a suprising number of 18s and high-15s

if they have a Gamecube section. its a little sad that Game in Manchester have reduced the GC section to a whole half-shelf! its pathetic. they've squashed all the classics in there. the PS2 section takes up 2 of the 3 useable walls. back to back lame games, no really. the PS2 has a few good games, not my kinda game but still. but there is just so much crap.

a few months after Halo 2 the Xbox shelf has been shrinking too.

(ill do this in caps) even the GBA has only a full shelf!, taking up about 1/6 of a wall! which has been merged with the DS shelf. even the PSP section is bigger and that wasn't out when i was last there, EVEN WITH THE MICRO GETTING MORE PREORDERS!

i swear! it doesn't make an ounce of sense. unless Sony are paying Game to stock as little competition as possible...

[Macamus Prime]

Ummm... Nintendo didn't make any of those...

Correct!

These games DO however prove that Nintendo isn't all about Pokemon.

[cubist]

Online capability is USELESS?? With XBox Live's 2 million subscribers, I don't think online for a console system is useless...

Is there any way to make use of the ethernet port on a GC? I debated purchasing the "online adapter" but I can't see any use for it. None of the games support it (except for one, Phantasy Star Online, an RPG, which is a game type I can't stand). Is there any hope that anything will ever use it? Perhaps gclinux? At this point it looks more likely that the DS will run Linux in a usable fashion than the GC.

[TheMonarch]

Is there any way to make use of the ethernet port on a GC? I debated purchasing the "online adapter" but I can't see any use for it. None of the games support it (except for one, Phantasy Star Online, an RPG, which is a game type I can't stand). Is there any hope that anything will ever use it? Perhaps gclinux? At this point it looks more likely that the DS will run Linux in a usable fashion than the GC.


Mariokart. LAN only though.

[GFLPraxis]

Mariokart. LAN only though.

Install XLink Kai and Mario Kart becomes online.

And Phantasy Star Online for GameCube is online.

[TheMonarch]

Install XLink Kai and Mario Kart becomes online.

And Phantasy Star Online for GameCube is online.


Install on to what?

[GFLPraxis]

Install on to what?

Install XLink Kai on your Mac. The Mac connects to another Mac or PC running XLink Kai, and forwards all packets between your respective GameCubes making them think they are on the same network, hence, online play.


It gives free online play in ALL LAN-enabled games, XBox, PS2, PSP, and GameCube. It's a nice Live replacement if you hate paying.


Alternatively if you have a Linksys router you can actually install it on the router.

[greatdevourer]

At this point it looks more likely that the DS will run Linux in a usable fashion than the GC.
It already does :D I just need to find a flashcart and the money to get a Passme :D It has an onscreen keyboard and all :D:D I sense it becoming the Sidekick 2's younger brother :p Me gonna go warchalk with it. Much less conspicuous than a 15" Widescreen aluminium laptop :p

[raggedjimmi]

Xlink Kai is fantastic. used to play Halo 2 online with that, until i got completely bored playing Halo. Halo 1 online is brilliant. no level is greater than SideWinder... ever...

The ethernet port is used for playing pirate games too. you sort of stream the game using a computer and the LAN/Broadband adapter. rather genius! never tried it (you need Phantasy Star online) but it goes to show the level of brilliantness Nintendo were at to stop piracy, that people have to stream games. even though -apparently- it really didn't work that well :D

Isn't that 1080 Snowboarding game online too?

anything that uses LAN multiplayer can use Kai. just i think Mario Kart sits alone there... but 8 people on Mario Kart Double Dash is amazing in its own right. even just 4 is brilliant! *cries over MK DS's 30+ tracks online :D:D*

[GFLPraxis]

It already does :D I just need to find a flashcart and the money to get a Passme :D It has an onscreen keyboard and all :D:D I sense it becoming the Sidekick 2's younger brother :p Me gonna go warchalk with it. Much less conspicuous than a 15" Widescreen aluminium laptop :p

Alternatively, PassKey and an M3 Adapter. The M3 Adapter is supposed to be released today sometime...

http://www.m3adapter.com/main.htm


It accepts SD and CompactFlash cards and adds more RAM to the DS as well (excellent for running, say, DSLinux), allows you to play commercial GBA and NDS roms (before anyone says this is illegal; check the laws. You can legally back up your own game if you do not share it with anyone or run it in two locations at once. Downloading a ROM is 100% illegal, but you can buy a $10 cable and LEGALLY rip your GBA roms), and built in NES, SNES, Game Gear, GameBoy, GameBoy Color, and FC emulators. Plus it plays movies, music, ebooks, and photos. And it's got a multibooter so you can load GBA homebrew, NDS homebrew, and as many DS and GBA roms (legally ripped, again) as you wish and swap between them on a moments notice.


PassKey is SUPPOSED to be $18 (I emailed them), the price of the M3 Adapter is unknown but might be on the high side...

I'm buying it as soon as it comes out.

[Macamus Prime]

This is the 1st I heard about bringing Mario Kart Double Dash online.

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/driving/mariokartdoubledash/news_6084611.html

[GFLPraxis]

Xlink Kai is fantastic. used to play Halo 2 online with that, until i got completely bored playing Halo. Halo 1 online is brilliant. no level is greater than SideWinder... ever...

The ethernet port is used for playing pirate games too. you sort of stream the game using a computer and the LAN/Broadband adapter. rather genius! never tried it (you need Phantasy Star online) but it goes to show the level of brilliantness Nintendo were at to stop piracy, that people have to stream games. even though -apparently- it really didn't work that well :D

Isn't that 1080 Snowboarding game online too?

anything that uses LAN multiplayer can use Kai. just i think Mario Kart sits alone there... but 8 people on Mario Kart Double Dash is amazing in its own right. even just 4 is brilliant! *cries over MK DS's 30+ tracks online :D:D*

There's actually another way to pirate GameCube games; you flash the GC firmware. See, the GC drive is a DVD drive, it just reads the DVD's backwards. Quick firmware flash lets it read mini-DVD's as well and you can burn pirated games on that. OR, more importantly, burn homebrew apps on the DVD's (I hate pirates).


NOT THAT I'VE DONE IT. I do not have the equipment.

[GFLPraxis]

This is the 1st I heard about bringing Mario Kart Double Dash online.

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/driving/mariokartdoubledash/news_6084611.html

I could care less about Warp Pipe. XLink Kai does the same thing but supports a lot more games.

[Macamus Prime]

I could care less about Warp Pipe. XLink Kai does the same thing but supports a lot more games.

Uhm,.... OK.

[GFLPraxis]

Uhm,.... OK.

Sorry, lol. Well, Warp Pipe works too I s'pose, I'm just not a big fan of Chad, he strikes me as a very cocky guy that likes to hype stuff and underdeliver. Sorry for the snap response... :o

[selloutvixen]

As for RPGs, Tales of Symophonia is getting rave reviews. but because its on the Cube its vastly unheard. People are calling that the new FFVII. I've yet to play it but its supposed to be very epic.

YES. I actually bought a gamecube for resident evil and metroid prime, then completely lost interest in it until I got Tales of Symphonia. That is one amazing RPG.. but I believe it was also released on PS2.

[greatdevourer]

Alternatively, PassKey and an M3 Adapter. The M3 Adapter is supposed to be released today sometime...

http://www.m3adapter.com/main.htm


It accepts SD and CompactFlash cards and adds more RAM to the DS as well (excellent for running, say, DSLinux), allows you to play commercial GBA and NDS roms (before anyone says this is illegal; check the laws. You can legally back up your own game if you do not share it with anyone or run it in two locations at once. Downloading a ROM is 100% illegal, but you can buy a $10 cable and LEGALLY rip your GBA roms), and built in NES, SNES, Game Gear, GameBoy, GameBoy Color, and FC emulators. Plus it plays movies, music, ebooks, and photos. And it's got a multibooter so you can load GBA homebrew, NDS homebrew, and as many DS and GBA roms (legally ripped, again) as you wish and swap between them on a moments notice.


PassKey is SUPPOSED to be $18 (I emailed them), the price of the M3 Adapter is unknown but might be on the high side...

I'm buying it as soon as it comes out. I'll also be getting one :D

[raggedjimmi]

YES. I actually bought a gamecube for resident evil and metroid prime, then completely lost interest in it until I got Tales of Symphonia. That is one amazing RPG.. but I believe it was also released on PS2.

its not out in the US or Europe yet. its been out for GC for a year, maybe more. seems like Viewtiful Joe and Resident Evil 4 how we get the cool new-styled games then get ported elsewhere :D

just with cut down graphics :)

[michaelltd]

YES. I actually bought a gamecube for resident evil and metroid prime, then completely lost interest in it until I got Tales of Symphonia. That is one amazing RPG.. but I believe it was also released on PS2.

Oh, I absolutely love that game! :D

I think the PS2 version was never released in the US.

[raggedjimmi]

Oh, I absolutely love that game! :D

I think the PS2 version was never released in the US.

yup. not even sure if it is being launched in the US and Europe. there is no planned launch date anyways.
same for that Jump Superstars on the DS :( i'd give me right uncle for an english version of that

[TheMonarch]

I wonder why Nintendo never hypes up their systems... Like Sony (except without lying). But besides a controller (which I totally understand why they aren't showing) is there anything to hype about? So far all the hype has been by Nintendo fans themselves, but I'd really like to see Nintendo join us, and maybe win a few converts...

^Serious question, not a rant^

I can't wait!!!
When is it coming out? (please don't let it be the last one out)

[Yvan256]

It accepts SD and CompactFlash cards and adds more RAM to the DS as well (excellent for running, say, DSLinux), allows you to play commercial GBA and NDS roms (before anyone says this is illegal; check the laws. You can legally back up your own game if you do not share it with anyone or run it in two locations at once. Downloading a ROM is 100% illegal, but you can buy a $10 cable and LEGALLY rip your GBA roms), and built in NES, SNES, Game Gear, GameBoy, GameBoy Color, and FC emulators. Plus it plays movies, music, ebooks, and photos. And it's got a multibooter so you can load GBA homebrew, NDS homebrew, and as many DS and GBA roms (legally ripped, again) as you wish and swap between them on a moments notice.

I have a "SuperCard CF", it's very nice, uses a CF card (which means I can easily use it with my Mac mini) but it only supports Gameboy, Gameboy Color, NES, SEGA Master System, GameGear and TurboGrafx-16 files directly.

It doesn't play MP3 files directly. They need to be converted, like movie files. And their software is, of course, Windows-only. Is there any MP3-to-GBS and Quicktime-to-GBM utility for OS X?

[Yvan256]

I wonder why Nintendo never hypes up their systems...

Nintendo are like Apple. They don't really hype the hardware, they hype the software.

Mario. Donkey Kong. Zelda. Metroid.

Nintendo aren't about "hardware", they're about the games, the experience.

Let Sony and Microsoft hype themselves up. Then watch them fall as they can't meet their own hype (either because of prices, production times or launch deadlines).

All three systems will be better than the current generation. But in the end, the best hardware on the planet doesn't mean squat if you don't have software for it.

[TheMonarch]

...But in the end, the best hardware on the planet doesn't mean squat if you don't have software for it.


Agreed. But hype = more sales. They are a company, and more sales is a good thing for them. After all, its business.

Maybe I'm just tired of Sony and MS's hype.

[raggedjimmi]

as a summary to this whole thread; this is why i liked the Handheld experience better than the consoles. when you have serious competition with Sony, M$ and Nintendo you get conflicts and arguments.
but in the handheld market it was nice and calm. Nintendo wiped the floor with everything. sure you had the odd person who'd rampantly claim the GamePark32 was better (well, spec wise it was). but other than that it was beautiful and nice. one system had all the games, every genre possible.

and now they go and change all that.

I doubt Sony will make a PSP2. I'm actually thinking that if Sony had the powers to go back and not make the PSP, rather get the PS3 out faster or another Minidisc/MP3 player... then they would.

suppose the competition will be good though. means developers will have to put more into games now, both hardware and software developers. there is only so far you can take the handheld market. if they had an amazing graphics chip in the DS that would be it. the DS would probably be the pinnacle of portable gaming until the next big thing came out (holographics?). And Sony have a lot of mistakes to learn from.
oh well.

[Mord]

the psp is a great handheld sonys only mistake was closeing the firmware so people cant run hacks shutting down a large proportion of their market, they essentially had a solution to the fact that the launch titles were weak in that their were so many emulators made for the thing, it seems they shot themselves in the foot, i personally will get a psp when either they go down in price or someone hacks version 2 firmware.

[Yvan256]

Agreed. But hype = more sales. They are a company, and more sales is a good thing for them. After all, its business.

Maybe I'm just tired of Sony and MS's hype.

Well, more hype may equal more sales, but if the hype can't be met by actual hardware, that means dissapointed customers and you may be losing sales - to your competitor. Watch how the PS3 is over-hyped (KillZone 2) and see Xbox360/Revolution sales go up if the PS3 can't meet KillZone 2/FF VII technical demo -quality graphics.

Anyway, Nintendo are doing very well in the profits department, just like Apple. They aren't the #1 seller, but they make enough profits to continue to do well without really caring about the competition.

[TheMonarch]

the psp is a great handheld sonys only mistake was closeing the firmware so people cant run hacks shutting down a large proportion of their market, they essentially had a solution to the fact that the launch titles were weak in that their were so many emulators made for the thing, it seems they shot themselves in the foot, i personally will get a psp when either they go down in price or someone hacks version 2 firmware.


While I agree that closing firmware is a bad choice. It is so not a large portion of the market. I know lots of people with a PSP and they have no idea what else it can do. If you attempt to explain and they hear the word "hack" and then they close off to whatever else you say, because 'hacking can mess up your PSP'... While some people know better, I don't think it surpasses the 'dumb' PSP users who have no idea how to do that, or would even attempt to do so because they're afraid.

[HardcoreBanjo]

I don't get the point. We have a Game Boy Advance, Game boy advance SP, the DS, and now this? Why??? :confused:
I have a cousin that owns both a normal GBA and a GBA-SP. It was a major waste of money buying the SP.

[raggedjimmi]

I don't get the point. We have a Game Boy Advance, Game boy advance SP, the DS, and now this? Why??? :confused:
I have a cousin that owns both a normal GBA and a GBA-SP. It was a major waste of money buying the SP.

read through this thread :) it has the "why's"

but in summary its aimed at people who don't have a GBA yet, or those who want a more fashion orientated device. around the web the Micro is compared to the iPod shuffle or mini. a cut down smaller brother aimed at a totally different demographic.