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onthecouchagain
Sep 26, 2012, 08:47 AM
http://www.phonearena.com/news/iOS-6-leads-to-first-ever-drop-in-device-satisfaction_id34888

Small ripple, no doubt. Hopefully Apple is listening.

In the mean time, this may urge those on the fence to try alternative platforms, obviously like Android, or the upcoming Windows 8... heck, even BB10, possibly (this last one is a heck of a stretch).



iosuser
Sep 26, 2012, 09:00 AM
That's a bit surprising because for the most part, you have more to gain than lose - much nicer looking vector map display, 3D view, ability to rotate freely, and voice navigation. That said, I'm sticking with 5.1.1 on my 4S :p If I want prettier looking maps, I'll switch to my S3 for that day :D

onthecouchagain
Sep 26, 2012, 09:07 AM
I think the point is, Apple is stagnating and people (few as it may be) are starting to catch on. Josh Topolsky, for the first time ever, discusses it in length the shortcomings that are beginning to show in iOS. Other tech sites have as well. This is from Cult of Mac: http://www.cultofmac.com/192496/the-iphone-5-is-incredible-but-ios-6-is-holding-it-back-opinion/ "The iPhone 5 Is Incredible, But iOS 6 Is Holding It Back"

Carouser
Sep 26, 2012, 09:46 AM
onthecouchagain, you've been posting Topolsky's review quite a lot; now you've found a second - what about all the positive reviews of iOS 6? Do I need to actually link to them? It's kind of peculiar that you've only read two reviews of iOS 6, there's lots more out there - or are you only drawing attention to the negative portions of select reviews on purpose? I don't mind discussing negative evaluations of software, but it's misleading to frame those negative evaluations as the consensus or even the majority opinion.

EDIT: For example, the Cult of Mac opinion piece (which is all it is) says "For me, iOS is still the most complete package, and the best mobile platform there is", under the heading that competitors are catching up. This is just bad faith framing: you might as well have an opinion piece which says "All other competitors continue to lag behind iOS 6 and there is literally nothing better I can use".

People aren't starting to 'catch on', it's just getting harder to drive blog hits if the leading manufacturer consistently dominates the field. What else is new?

EDIT 2: LOL. The Cult of Mac author also is still going to use the iPhone for the next year. His argument amounts to "iOS 6 is the best thing, but what if it was even better sooner!?".

EDIT 3: The On Device poll doesn't say what it's being interpreted to say. They asked people "On a scale of 1 to 10, please rate your satisfaction with the device you are currently using". This is not a comparative analysis with iOS 5 in the sense that they did not ask people "do you find iOS 6 an improvement over iOS 5" or something like that; the difference is 0.1 on a 10-point scale (lol); the respondents are not at the same point in their OS lifecycle (i.e. redo the survey once iOS 6 has been out more than 7 days (double lol).

onthecouchagain
Sep 26, 2012, 10:03 AM
onthecouchagain, you've been posting Topolsky's review quite a lot; now you've found a second - what about all the positive reviews of iOS 6? Do I need to actually link to them? It's kind of peculiar that you've only read two reviews of iOS 6, there's lots more out there - or are you only drawing attention to the negative portions of select reviews on purpose? I don't mind discussing negative evaluations of software, but it's misleading to frame those negative evaluations as the consensus or even the majority opinion.

EDIT: For example, the Cult of Mac opinion piece (which is all it is) says "For me, iOS is still the most complete package, and the best mobile platform there is", under the heading that competitors are catching up. This is just bad faith framing: you might as well have an opinion piece which says "All other competitors continue to lag behind iOS 6 and there is literally nothing better I can use".

People aren't starting to 'catch on', it's just getting harder to drive blog hits if the leading manufacturer consistently dominates the field. What else is new?

EDIT 2: LOL. The Cult of Mac author also is still going to use the iPhone for the next year. His argument amounts to "iOS 6 is the best thing, but what if it was even better sooner!?".


I'm actually not convinced there's as major a shift as some people (look at Calidude's predictions, which I disagreed with) so there's no contention here that these are small ripples (heck, I wouldn't even be surprised if nothing came out of all this) but they are ripples nonetheless. I point out the review from Josh Topolsky on The Verge because it's really the first time a relatively high profile tech blogger on a high profile website is speaking openly about it.

As for Cult of Mac, the point of referencing that article is precisely because he's an Apple fan from a pro-Apple website. Of course he'll stick with the iPhone, but the fact that he can admit there should be more to iOS 6 is a "first step" of sorts.

Carouser, please don't get me wrong. I'm not here to bash Apple. If you scour the rest of MacRumor forums, I post on the iPad forum (I own a 3rd gen iPad and still believe the tablet experience is best with iOS) and on the Macbook Air and iMac forums (own both of these at home). The one vacancy is the smartphone, and I want it to improve.

Carouser
Sep 26, 2012, 10:09 AM
Carouser, please don't get me wrong. I'm not here to bash Apple.

Fair enough, but the things you cite are really reaching hard though. They are literally insignificant; they indicate nothing reliably. You can tell I looked closely at the poll (as closely as I could, there wasn't much to go on); if it was meaningful I'd admit it. I think the bloggers are running out of things to say, to be honest, and if they just say "welp, on the whole Apple did a very good thing and did it better than competitors" they get dismissed as Apple acolytes. Yeah, there's things they don't like, but this has always been the case - when they can list those things and still say "This product is still the best" I think Apple is listening and are quite content.

ChrisTX
Sep 26, 2012, 10:29 AM
I think the point is, Apple is stagnating and people (few as it may be) are starting to catch on. Josh Topolsky, for the first time ever, discusses it in length the shortcomings that are beginning to show in iOS. Other tech sites have as well. This is from Cult of Mac: http://www.cultofmac.com/192496/the-iphone-5-is-incredible-but-ios-6-is-holding-it-back-opinion/ "The iPhone 5 Is Incredible, But iOS 6 Is Holding It Back"
The Verge said it best, and for the life of me I can't find the exact quote but read similar to "iOS6 was made for Apple to remove Google from their devices." iOS6 with the removal of Google Maps is frustrating because I used Google Maps on the iPad a lot. It seems like the experience with the iPhone is more of an evolution rather than a revolution.

onthecouchagain
Sep 26, 2012, 11:13 AM
Fair enough, but the things you cite are really reaching hard though. They are literally insignificant; they indicate nothing reliably. You can tell I looked closely at the poll (as closely as I could, there wasn't much to go on); if it was meaningful I'd admit it. I think the bloggers are running out of things to say, to be honest, and if they just say "welp, on the whole Apple did a very good thing and did it better than competitors" they get dismissed as Apple acolytes. Yeah, there's things they don't like, but this has always been the case - when they can list those things and still say "This product is still the best" I think Apple is listening and are quite content.

Aye. Wouldn't be surprised if all this fell on deaf ears.

Still though, we know Apple pays closer attention to consumers than we've known, thanks to the Apple/Samsung trial. There is hope, and that's the whole point.

sarcosis
Sep 26, 2012, 11:47 AM
The Verge said it best, and for the life of me I can't find the exact quote but read similar to "iOS6 was made for Apple to remove Google from their devices." iOS6 with the removal of Google Maps is frustrating because I used Google Maps on the iPad a lot. It seems like the experience with the iPhone is more of an evolution rather than a revolution.

This has really been Apple's MO for years. They take one thing and polish the heck out of it. It's' a bit rough when it comes out, but no one Iterates better than Apple. They actually do try to make each release better. I think in their minds, Maps is in fact better since it's theirs and not Google's. I would agree that the point of this OS release was to kick off Google. Why supply data to the competitor.

It's also good for Google. More competition means they will make Google Maps better. The cycle continues. Apple Maps are bit rough right now, but it will get better because it has to and Apple has the resources to make that happen. I don't think it's going to be like Ping. I think this Maps Update sucked up sooooo much of their time that they really couldn't wow us with new software at the OS level.

onthecouchagain's pointing out of the Verge is correct. I find blog/emdia wise, they are by far the most object group as a whole. Sure they get emotional at times, but that's part of their charm. They also have enough clout and resources to just do what they want, so they arn't afraid to speak their mind. I think TWiT does that to. Leo and crew will give you a good look at what they think objectively. Although I find that most people in Tech media are in a kind of a bubble where they are around tech so much, they really don't know what the normal person really uses it for at times. But I digress.

What I see is a separate tick-tock cycle for the hardware and software cycle. I think Apple with the X model refreshes, they take a more conservative approach to software as they refresh hardware to maintain greater stability of the overall product. With the Xs models, it's generally a hardware bump without a redesign, so they have a better idea of what the software can handle, so they make a big feature update then. So hardware is on Tick, software is on Tock. It gives users compelling reasons to update year after year for Apple stuff.

But there is also the wonder of competition. If Android or Windows is doing something better for you, go for it!

onthecouchagain
Sep 26, 2012, 10:27 PM
The ridiculous thing with attempting to implore Apple to make improvements to iOS that everyone would enjoy is that you have to first argue with the fans that there is even a need for improvement.

Such an obstacle is detrimental to the actual company in question. I guess the first step is admitting.

Technarchy
Sep 26, 2012, 11:02 PM
The ridiculous thing with attempting to implore Apple to make improvements to iOS that everyone would enjoy is that you have to first argue with the fans that there is even a need for improvement.

Such an obstacle is detrimental to the actual company in question. I guess the first step is admitting.

Nonsense.

More often than not, the improvement suggestions that come from the peanut gallery are stupid and emit from people that want Apple to produce something that stinks of HTC or Samsung.

Apple can do many things to improve iOS, but none should involve a screen splattered with buggy widgets or a phone design that can double as a surf board.

iphonefan74
Sep 27, 2012, 12:03 AM
Nonsense.

More often than not, the improvement suggestions that come from the peanut gallery are stupid and emit from people that want Apple to produce something that stinks of HTC or Samsung.

Seeing as how Android has destroyed iOS in marketshare thats growing larger every month and the fact that Samsung is the global leader in smartphone sales, perhaps Apple should listen up.

LIVEFRMNYC
Sep 27, 2012, 12:28 AM
Nonsense.

More often than not, the improvement suggestions that come from the peanut gallery are stupid and emit from people that want Apple to produce something that stinks of HTC or Samsung.

Apple can do many things to improve iOS, but none should involve a screen splattered with buggy widgets or a phone design that can double as a surf board.

Then what should the improvements be? ..... Since iOS needs some improvements that Android already has, and Android needs some improvements that iOS already has.

But let's be honest, Android is filling it's improvement void much quicker than iOS. Actually some might think iOS is at a standstill or going slightly backwards.

shinji
Sep 27, 2012, 12:40 AM
iOS 6 feels unfinished- from launching passbook with initially no apps showing up in the app store link to the current state of maps. It does not have Apple's usual attention to detail. And they didn't add any cutting edge features.

I really like the features and design of the Lumia. If only there were more apps for Windows Phone.

matttye
Sep 27, 2012, 01:13 AM
It was mainly iOS 6 that made me switch to the iPhone; shared photo streams, local search for Siri now available in the UK.

Ill continue to use my tomtom until Apple Maps are reliable.

sarcosis
Sep 27, 2012, 01:15 AM
The apps are what's killing it right now. I loved the UI of Windows phone, but the selection of apps were just not there. It didn't help that the browser was also a pile.

iphonefan74
Sep 27, 2012, 01:24 AM
But let's be honest, Android is filling it's improvement void much quicker than iOS. Actually some might think iOS is at a standstill or going slightly backwards.

Yep. Thats because you get a few major Android OS updates a year where each one is getting more polished and refined. Apple sticks to one major update a year and they fall behind. Each new release is trying to catch up to the features Android already had. Not good odds. If it wasnt for hardcore iphone fans being so tied in to itunes and/or the app store, iphone would be well on its way out by now.

flameproof
Sep 27, 2012, 01:38 AM
The apps are what's killing it right now. I loved the UI of Windows phone, but the selection of apps were just not there.

Check now, there are over 100,000 .

I also think Apple is stagnating. 2007 the iPhone was quite a big thing. After that nothing really new came out. Then in 2010 the iPhone 4 was a good upgrade. After that only lukewarm changes. But I don't think it's Apples fault. At the current level of technology you simply can't create something totally new. And people that really think the iPhone 5 is the revolutionary have issues with reality.

I have an iPhone 4 - and a few days ago passed by a phone shop that had an iPhone 5 for display.

First I wasn't sure if it was the iPhone 5 - had to look at the rear to make sure. Switched it on - feels exactly the same as iPhone 4. Same OS, zero feeling of holding something new.

matttye
Sep 27, 2012, 02:41 AM
First I wasn't sure if it was the iPhone 5 - had to look at the rear to make sure. Switched it on - feels exactly the same as iPhone 4. Same OS, zero feeling of holding something new.

Except having a longer screen, different colour, different material and being thinner and lighter :p

It's the software that hasn't changed much, not the hardware.

EmaDaCuz
Sep 27, 2012, 03:23 AM
To me, iOS 6 is a major improvement over iOS 5. There are some bugs here and there, unfinished apps (Maps? Passbook?), but in general it feels snappy even on an iPod Touch 4G. But it is far away from being the perfect system for mobile phones/tablets.

I agree that Apple is not doing much. iOS is kinda the same over the years and it is kinda boring. However, iOS also does well what it has to do: launch apps and manage a couple of hardware settings. So where is the need to go for major changes?

I think Apple has to focus more on hardware. I mean, there are some great under-the-hood improvents, but customers probably do not fully appreciate them. What I expect from -or what I would like to see on- an iPhone is being similar to the Galaxy Note. That's the philosophy. Hardware-software integration. You can have an office on the move. Notes, documents, digital signatures, a bit of photo editing.
Apple, do this and I would gladly spend 700 euros for it.

watchthisspace
Sep 27, 2012, 03:39 AM
To me, iOS 6 is a major improvement over iOS 5. There are some bugs here and there, unfinished apps (Maps? Passbook?), but in general it feels snappy even on an iPod Touch 4G. But it is far away from being the perfect system for mobile phones/tablets.

I agree that Apple is not doing much. iOS is kinda the same over the years and it is kinda boring. However, iOS also does well what it has to do: launch apps and manage a couple of hardware settings. So where is the need to go for major changes?

I think Apple has to focus more on hardware. I mean, there are some great under-the-hood improvents, but customers probably do not fully appreciate them. What I expect from -or what I would like to see on- an iPhone is being similar to the Galaxy Note. That's the philosophy. Hardware-software integration. You can have an office on the move. Notes, documents, digital signatures, a bit of photo editing.
Apple, do this and I would gladly spend 700 euros for it.

You say iOS 6 is a major improvement over iOS 5, but iOS is kinda the same over the years??

The iPhone can already do everything the Galaxy note does. It just doesn't come with the stylus :S

I'm a little confused with your statements.

Gatecrasher1875
Sep 27, 2012, 04:01 AM
iOS6 is the reason I didn't get the new iPhone. It just wasn't enough for me anymore, sure "it just works" but with a 600 phone and software upgrade I would like something that changes the way I use the phone such as the introduction of the notifications in iOS5 or Siri in the 4S. Don't get me wrong here the phone its self is a smashing looking phone and looks well built but i feel the software has let it down a bit.

flameproof
Sep 27, 2012, 04:24 AM
To me, iOS 6 is a major improvement over iOS 5.

All iOS upgrades so far didn't have a 'new' feeling for me. That some colors changed a little is not not really an improvement. The do-not-disturb function is nice. But there is also that switch on the side that has a similar function without a few clicks. Other changes I didn't notice (leaving out the maps).

Sedrick
Sep 27, 2012, 06:53 AM
The ridiculous thing with attempting to implore Apple to make improvements to iOS that everyone would enjoy is that you have to first argue with the fans that there is even a need for improvement.

Such an obstacle is detrimental to the actual company in question. I guess the first step is admitting.

Man o man, yes. +100. Apple fans are so emotionally tied to their iPhones that's it's absolute heresy to even suggest the OS can be improved. You can't talk through that kind of fanaticism.

That's why you get idiotic statements like "Apples maps isn't so bad, just give it a few years." :eek: So, we're all supposed to have a worse OS experience because Apple has it in for Google. But that's ok, because it's Apple. And it's OK to have a stagnant OS with nothing new people have been asking for, for 5 years because it's Apple.

Oh, but hey, we got Facebook integration.

onthecouchagain
Sep 27, 2012, 07:30 AM
Nonsense.

More often than not, the improvement suggestions that come from the peanut gallery are stupid and emit from people that want Apple to produce something that stinks of HTC or Samsung.

Apple can do many things to improve iOS, but none should involve a screen splattered with buggy widgets or a phone design that can double as a surf board.


Let me see if I got this right.

People's desires are stupid because they are not your own.

And if Apple gives people the option of widgets, everyone must use them, thus making everyone's screen horribly ugly.

The concept of choice is really lost upon you, isn't it? At this point, it just seems you're anti-widgets because you're anti-Android.

Improvements don't even have to be in the form of widgets. There are plenty of amazing iOS concepts. Just Google a few of them. There are excellent ideas out there. Dynamic icons, or there was one recently where you could pull down on an icon and a small grid of information slides down, sort of like how folders slides down. Why not open up the notification center for more than just weather/stocks? Why not grant easier access to settings? I have iOS 6 on my iPad 3rd Gen, and honestly, the Settings menu is a bit of a mess.

And it's downright sad that it took Apple this long to figure out that users don't like getting booted out of the App Store every time they download something. How much longer will it take Apple to realize similar initiatives to make iOS more usable?

Apple's an innovative company. Let's see some ideas.

----------

Man o man, yes. +100. Apple fans are so emotionally tied to their iPhones that's it's absolute heresy to even suggest the OS can be improved. You can't talk through that kind of fanaticism.

That's why you get idiotic statements like "Apples maps isn't so bad, just give it a few years." :eek: So, we're all supposed to have a worse OS experience because Apple has it in for Google. But that's ok, because it's Apple. And it's OK to have a stagnant OS with nothing new people have been asking for, for 5 years because it's Apple.

Oh, but hey, we got Facebook integration.


The worse thing is really the inconsistencies.

Some of the best examples:

At first, having a heftier phone made it feel premium. Now, being lighter than the competition is a plus.

If others try to push new ideas or technologies, they are fools because they're unnecessary or gimmicky or not ready for real world use (LTE at the time, NFC, wireless charging, Smart Stay, etc.). But if Apple pushes new ideas/tech (like say Thunderbolt port?) then they're heralded as pushing the frontiers.

I mean, take a look at the reversible dock which people adore. If Samsung or whoever introduced a reversible dock, everyone would be saying "Oh please, that's so unnecessary. It's not that hard to know which side is up." I guarantee it.

The classic 3.5 inch is perfect. Now 4 is the new perfect.


Many more examples...


And you've hit the nail on the head. When dealing with people who think somebody or something can do no wrong, it's impossible to have an honest discussion.

cynics
Sep 27, 2012, 07:40 AM
You say iOS 6 is a major improvement over iOS 5, but iOS is kinda the same over the years??

The iPhone can already do everything the Galaxy note does. It just doesn't come with the stylus :S

I'm a little confused with your statements.

You are confused because you don't understand the technology with the note. The digitizer is designed for a stylus, like writing with a pencil the harder you press the darker the line. The USB is (as with all Android devices) is designed to support USB hosting. So plugging a mouse in an a mouse pops up on the screen or a game controller can just be plugged in. The software is based around the screen tech so there is nothing comparable as far as apps go on iOS.

Basically the iPhone doesn't have the hardware or software like a galaxy note. It's more then just a big phone with a stylus.

I think that's why you are a bit confused. It's a device for a certain market, it's not in competition with anything Apple makes because Apple doesn't make a competing product.

DeathChill
Sep 27, 2012, 07:47 AM
Uh, looking at the poll it's within a tenth. That's pretty likely within the margin of error. A better title would have been "New iOS version fails to increase satisfaction of customers for first time."

onthecouchagain
Sep 27, 2012, 09:01 AM
The ridiculous thing with attempting to implore Apple to make improvements to iOS that everyone would enjoy is that you have to first argue with the fans that there is even a need for improvement.


Nonsense.



See? ;)

onthecouchagain
Sep 27, 2012, 01:36 PM
This is the sort of stuff I'm talking about: http://gizmodo.com/5946966/steve-jobs-reality-distortion-field-lives-on?utm_source=io9.com&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=recirculation

"Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field Lives On"

Technarchy
Sep 27, 2012, 01:45 PM
This is the sort of stuff I'm talking about: http://gizmodo.com/5946966/steve-jobs-reality-distortion-field-lives-on?utm_source=io9.com&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=recirculation

"Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field Lives On"

Gizmodo LOL

onthecouchagain
Sep 27, 2012, 01:50 PM
Gizmodo LOL

You do realize it's written by "Newsweek Technology Editor Dan Lyons" right?

Try reading it.

Technarchy
Sep 27, 2012, 02:13 PM
You do realize it's written by "Newsweek Technology Editor Dan Lyons" right?

Try reading it.

The same moron that paraded around as "Fake Steve Jobs"

The same idiot that compared Steve Ballmer to someone who tried to execute a US politician.

Yeah, lots of journalistic integrity there. A regular Edward R Murrow.

onthecouchagain
Sep 27, 2012, 02:21 PM
The same moron that paraded around as "Fake Steve Jobs"

The same idiot that compared Steve Ballmer to someone who tried to execute a US politician.

Yeah, lots of journalistic integrity there. A regular Edward R Murrow.

Still not Gizmodo. But fair enough.

So, you don't think Gruber and Siegler used the Jobs Reality Distortion Field in their praising reviews of iOS Maps?

----------

While we're at it, what are your thoughts on Maps, Technarchy? (genuinely curious).

Technarchy
Sep 27, 2012, 02:36 PM
Still not Gizmodo. But fair enough.

So, you don't think Gruber and Siegler used the Jobs Reality Distortion Field in their praising reviews of iOS Maps?

----------

While we're at it, what are your thoughts on Maps, Technarchy? (genuinely curious).

Deadly serious, I don't read Gruber because I think his writing is not very good, and I'm not sure who Siegler, but I don't deny having possibly read his work. I just don't recall him by name, and Techcrunch is low low low on my tech site reading list.

Here's my opinion on Maps, and Google Maps for that matter. In the city I'm currently stationed in Apple Maps has performed flawlessly. If the military sees fit to move me, is it possible that experience might change. Yes.

HOWEVER...

I've moved around a lot between deployments, and I've been using Google Maps for a couple of years, and in that time, I have seriously encountered funky mapping, directions, and outdated or wrong POI's.

I always put stuff like that in the "**** happens" column of technology dependence. It never occured to me to go on the internet and say Google maps sucks, because overall, I don't think it does.

b166er
Sep 27, 2012, 09:22 PM
I said this a while back and I'll say it again, if we don't at least begin to see the real customization options in iOS 7 we will never see them. iOS 6 is an obvious lack of effort in every way. A lot of people are getting sick of saying "but" after praising iOS vs other platforms. And not just the nerds on here, but even non-techy people are starting to catch on how tight and narrow iOS is.

Right now, in my opinion (which I realize is worth nothing to most of you), iOS leads in two areas- the app selection, and the overall "smoothness" of operation. Other than that, it's no contest anymore. Android used to suck, hard. It doesn't anymore, and it's getting better all the time. WP7 is great, WP8 looks like it will be greater. Once developers start catching up when it comes to apps (which is more or less happening right now on google play) the contest will be over.

Apple will be able to sell millions of iPhones either way, I'm not saying they are going anywhere. the iPhone is awesome, and iOS is great, but iOS 6 offers me nothing that iOS 5 didn't. Panorama photos? Passbook? Come on, a full iOS update should really feel like a version update, not a "." update.

The iPhone is capable of so much more than iOS 6 allows. It's a beast under the hood. Let it shine.

darcyjames
Sep 27, 2012, 09:33 PM
I THINK (there, disclaimer) that iOS 6 is definitely an a positive incremental progression. Except, uh, maps - but here are some thoughts that perhaps give perspective:

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/what-makes-googles-maps-so-good/

Siri, as an example, will get "smarter" as it is used more - so will maps. The line is probably getting blurred between beta and release if, for it to get better, it has to be released first.

onthecouchagain
Sep 27, 2012, 09:53 PM
I don't think anyone would argue iOS 6 isn't an upgrade/improvement (except for Maps) -- that'd be silly if it weren't. The actual issue is that it's not improving enough. And to be even more specific, not improving fast enough.

It's gotten to a point where not only is iOS becoming stagnant, it's becoming less usable.

Why? Others have figured out far better and easier ways to accomplish things. In Chrome, it takes all but 2 taps to launch private browsing. In Safari, it takes at least 6 steps to switch to private browsing (which involves leaving the actual app).

Other apps too... If I want to change a setting, I often have to exit the app and find my way to the OS' Settings icon. And the Settings page has gotten so convoluted and messy.

(I think the following is important so I've bolded it)
All this talk about how Apple shouldn't change much of their UI for fear of upsetting the "main stream" non-tech user base is really unfounded. Apple holds classes in their stores. Every time I visit the Apple store, there are people lined up and crowded around the classrooms with happy faces. They've signed up and paid to take those classes; people are eager to learn how to use their new shiny Apple products. Apple can teach them whatever new UI elements they introduce. They're capable of finding ways of implementing new ideas in an intuitive way. There's no reason Apple shouldn't dynamically change their OS to give users more flexibility.

As the competition improves and offers better solutions, people will begin to realize. It will be slow, but it will happen. Unless Apple decides to act.

Mrg02d
Sep 27, 2012, 09:58 PM
Nonsense.

More often than not, the improvement suggestions that come from the peanut gallery are stupid and emit from people that want Apple to produce something that stinks of HTC or Samsung.

Apple can do many things to improve iOS, but none should involve a screen splattered with buggy widgets or a phone design that can double as a surf board.

Yawn. Typical fanboy...

EDIT: didn't realise you we're a bad@ss. That explains it all...

Beau10
Sep 28, 2012, 10:37 AM
I think the biggest problem isn't Maps, customization, widgets, etc. Let's say Apple improved in all these regards, then they would be chasing Android's tail.

It's more that the when the iPhone originally launched, the OS was a revelation. The user is presented with the same basic UI 5+ years later. It's a screen of icons with a dock at the bottom with primary icons. All changes since then have seemed to add features or improve upon that concept, but none have changed that basic structure. They just continue to diddle/refine that formula. You send an iPhone5 in a time machine back to 2007, a user will marvel at the hardware, but the OS will be instantly familiar.

Compare this to what's been going on with Windows Phone. Pocket PC/Windows Mobile was horrific, it stagnated, if you look at what was happening around version 6.5 or thereabouts you could see MS really losing it. Then they started from scratch, WP7 looks ok... but WP8, now we're talking. You take the upcoming Lumia 920 back to 2007 and show a user of a WM device and it will induce serious future shock.

So it's not adding this or that. It really is figuring out a new way to interact with the phone that makes it an altogether more immersive experience. It doesn't have to follow Android or WM or Blackberry 10 or whatnot... it doesn't have to follow any of these. But if you can imagine what the most forward-thinking way of interacting with a smart phone (or whatever the equivalent will be in 5 years), it should be more like *that*.

b166er
Sep 28, 2012, 01:40 PM
It's not the UI that bothers me. I don't even get how the UI could change much on a touch screen. The Android UI isn't any better or worse, it's more or less the same.

What gets me is the lack of features and the lack of willingness to include them. It's ok to give the option to use widgets or shortcuts or toggles. Stuff like that should come stock, but turned off. Some users who don't go tweaking with setting would never even know they are there. The users who want them would know, and could turn them on. Kind of like how when you use a new iPhone it interrupts you at every step to let you know about locations, wifi, etc.

They dropped the ball with iOS 6, I stand by my opinion. It's just iOS 5 with terrible maps, a not so functional NFC work-around, and panorama photos. All the other "new" things are stuff my blackberry did 7 years ago. iOS users, including myself, are always saying "well in the next version" and "well it doesn't do that but it does this" and even worse a lot of people are defending the obvious (and now self admitted by apple) FLAWS like maps. Maps is not an oops, it's not a "my bad", it's a freaking disaster. And it was supposed to be the flagship feature and main reason to upgrade to iOS 6.

Mrg02d
Sep 28, 2012, 09:46 PM
It's not the UI that bothers me. I don't even get how the UI could change much on a touch screen. The Android UI isn't any better or worse, it's more or less the same.

What gets me is the lack of features and the lack of willingness to include them. It's ok to give the option to use widgets or shortcuts or toggles. Stuff like that should come stock, but turned off. Some users who don't go tweaking with setting would never even know they are there. The users who want them would know, and could turn them on. Kind of like how when you use a new iPhone it interrupts you at every step to let you know about locations, wifi, etc.

They dropped the ball with iOS 6, I stand by my opinion. It's just iOS 5 with terrible maps, a not so functional NFC work-around, and panorama photos. All the other "new" things are stuff my blackberry did 7 years ago. iOS users, including myself, are always saying "well in the next version" and "well it doesn't do that but it does this" and even worse a lot of people are defending the obvious (and now self admitted by apple) FLAWS like maps. Maps is not an oops, it's not a "my bad", it's a freaking disaster. And it was supposed to be the flagship feature and main reason to upgrade to iOS 6.

Yet they refuse to tell apple to kiss it...makes me wonder who they voted for....nvm, I know.:rolleyes:

Vegastouch
Sep 28, 2012, 10:04 PM
I don't think anyone would argue iOS 6 isn't an upgrade/improvement (except for Maps) -- that'd be silly if it weren't. The actual issue is that it's not improving enough. And to be even more specific, not improving fast enough.

It's gotten to a point where not only is iOS becoming stagnant, it's becoming less usable.

Why? Others have figured out far better and easier ways to accomplish things. In Chrome, it takes all but 2 taps to launch private browsing. In Safari, it takes at least 6 steps to switch to private browsing (which involves leaving the actual app).

Other apps too... If I want to change a setting, I often have to exit the app and find my way to the OS' Settings icon. And the Settings page has gotten so convoluted and messy.

(I think the following is important so I've bolded it)
All this talk about how Apple shouldn't change much of their UI for fear of upsetting the "main stream" non-tech user base is really unfounded. Apple holds classes in their stores. Every time I visit the Apple store, there are people lined up and crowded around the classrooms with happy faces. They've signed up and paid to take those classes; people are eager to learn how to use their new shiny Apple products. Apple can teach them whatever new UI elements they introduce. They're capable of finding ways of implementing new ideas in an intuitive way. There's no reason Apple shouldn't dynamically change their OS to give users more flexibility.

As the competition improves and offers better solutions, people will begin to realize. It will be slow, but it will happen. Unless Apple decides to act.

LOL, sooo.....people PAY to learn how to use a iPhone? Apple should absolutely make the iOS do more if that is the case. They will continue to make a fortune off of dummies. I think you made a good case for those to keep their iPhone and never get an Android. A class? That just proves people hate to read because you can go buy this for $5 off of eBay and learn at your own leisure.

http://media.wiley.com/product_data/coverImage300/19/11180367/1118036719.jpg

b166er
Sep 28, 2012, 10:15 PM
The sad thing is, iOS is still the smoothest mobile OS, in my opinion. I'm starting to think maybe it's so fluid because of all the stuff it doesn't do.

I'd imagine if Apple ever wakes up and gives us some real customization, widgets, toggles... it would be done with all the elegance and fluid motion that we have come to expect. The problem is they haven't shown any signs of doing this yet.

mrskullfreak
Sep 28, 2012, 11:25 PM
The next will be amazing I willing to bet on it...
Seems they are just doing to much this year.
Especially after the loss of Steve..

Sensamic
Sep 28, 2012, 11:49 PM
The sad thing is, iOS is still the smoothest mobile OS, in my opinion. I'm starting to think maybe it's so fluid because of all the stuff it doesn't do.

I'd imagine if Apple ever wakes up and gives us some real customization, widgets, toggles... it would be done with all the elegance and fluid motion that we have come to expect. The problem is they haven't shown any signs of doing this yet.

Correct.

It's smooth and fluid because there's no true multitasking, no widgets, etc.

Vegastouch
Sep 29, 2012, 12:07 AM
The next will be amazing I willing to bet on it...
Seems they are just doing to much this year.
Especially after the loss of Steve..

Keep thinking that. Everyone thought the same thing this time around but you can wait another year to find out just to be disapointed again. Big reason why i havent been using an iPhone any longer.

b166er
Sep 29, 2012, 11:48 AM
Keep thinking that. Everyone thought the same thing this time around but you can wait another year to find out just to be disapointed again. Big reason why i havent been using an iPhone any longer.

That's where I'm at too. I kept my 4S and in the mean time am really eyeing up a Lumina 920. I'm getting tired of saying "well maybe next year" and similar things. I know how well Android works and it's cool, but I really want to give Windows P8 a shot. Then I'll know for certain, having tried the major 3 mobile OS's. I did use blackberry as well back in the day but that's a lost cause now a days. If I come back to iOS at least I do it knowing I gave everyone a fair chance.

Mrg02d
Sep 29, 2012, 01:05 PM
What if iOS was in a plastic body rather than machined aluminium?;)

Dave.UK
Sep 29, 2012, 02:03 PM
I work with quite a few people in their 50's who arnt very technical and purchased the iPhone because of its simplicity and because its a known name.

Listening to them moan over the past week since the upgraded to ios6 has been intolerable. Mainly the lack of google maps/street view and apparently it seems to have slowed their phones down.

I can truly believe this poll.

b166er
Sep 29, 2012, 04:06 PM
iOS does defiantly appeal to people 40+ and I think it reaches further and further toward older generations all the time. We have people in there 80's learning to skype and email, and I think we can truly thank Apple for contributing to that. It's a cool thing to blur the lines of tech between generations. Neither of my parents knew anything about computers. My mom thought "double click" meant to click both buttons at the same time. My dad couldn't even power a pc on. So yeah it's cool to see old heads using computers and iPhones these days.

But iOS is beginning to really appeal to a more narrow group of people, the non tech savvy. I feel like it used to appeal to everyone, but now the more tech inclined crowds are all jumping ship. Maybe it's just me. Apple could easily make iOS work for everyone again. There is no reason to fear android like customization because it is up to each user what they want to do.

I dream of a day where I have iOS smoothness, the Apple ecosystem, and the ability to use toggles and widgets and other mods, without a jailbreak and with full support from the OS developers.

onthecouchagain
Sep 29, 2012, 06:02 PM
What if iOS was in a plastic body rather than machined aluminium?;)


If the iPhone came in an uglier package, I wouldn't be surprised if it'd be an unacceptable mobile platform. So much of the allure of the iPhone is its aesthetics and status symbol thereof.

----------


I dream of a day where I have iOS smoothness, the Apple ecosystem, and the ability to use toggles and widgets and other mods, without a jailbreak and with full support from the OS developers.


What's ridiculous is Apple could so easily implement those things. So easily. But they refuse to for fear of people not getting it, which is a fear that is, I think, unfounded.

Apple could easily teach these new and "scary" features to non-tech people in the classes they offer at the stores. There are constantly crowds of people excited to learn how to use their new Apple products.

The irony is that iOS is so simple that it's actually less usable.

Mrg02d
Sep 29, 2012, 06:10 PM
If the iPhone came in an uglier package, I wouldn't be surprised if it'd be an unacceptable mobile platform. So much of the allure of the iPhone is its aesthetics and status symbol thereof.

----------




What's ridiculous is Apple could so easily implement those things. So easily. But they refuse to for fear of people not getting it, which is a fear that is, I think, unfounded.

Apple could easily teach these new and "scary" features to non-tech people in the classes they offer at the stores. There are constantly crowds of people excited to learn how to use their new Apple products.

The irony is that iOS is so simple that it's actually less usable.

My guess is that widgets and live wallpaper do not jive well with iOS or android has patents. Seems ridiculous to have to open apps just to see new mail, messages, ect.

onthecouchagain
Sep 29, 2012, 06:34 PM
My guess is that widgets and live wallpaper do not jive well with iOS or android has patents. Seems ridiculous to have to open apps just to see new mail, messages, ect.

I wouldn't call it ridiculous, per se.

The competition has simply come up with better, faster, more convenient solutions and methods for accessing information and changing settings. Apple just won't play game.

Again, a shame for its dedicated users.

torana355
Sep 29, 2012, 06:56 PM
The ridiculous thing with attempting to implore Apple to make improvements to iOS that everyone would enjoy is that you have to first argue with the fans that there is even a need for improvement.

Such an obstacle is detrimental to the actual company in question. I guess the first step is admitting.

You hit the nail on the head there. When the vast majority of ip5 and iOS6 users think its the best product out there Apple feel little need to offer more. It will eventually catch up with Apple, its only a matter of time.

KnightWRX
Sep 30, 2012, 06:55 AM
Correct.

It's smooth and fluid because there's no true multitasking, no widgets, etc.

That's not correct at all. First, there's plenty of "true multitasking" since iOS has a preemptive design with a process scheduler. There's tons of processes that are running simulteneously, with the kernel allotting time to each outside the control of applications.

Next, the reason iOS is so "smooth" is simply that all parts of the UI are hardware accelerated and every part of the OS is heavily threaded and most of the frameworks are asynchronous where possible. This is what project Butter aims to bring to Android, but the problem lies in the vastly different GPU configurations it has to support, with varying vendor extension support for OpenGL ES.

----------

What if iOS was in a plastic body rather than machined aluminium?;)

What if what ? The iPhone 3G/3GS and a bunch of iPods... what does the "body" change for the OS ? OSes are software, they don't really have any problems running inside circuitry that's laid out in any kind of casing material. You can run them on bare circuitry if you like.

What does the body of the device have to do with iOS exactly ?

onthecouchagain
Sep 30, 2012, 12:11 PM
What if what ? The iPhone 3G/3GS and a bunch of iPods... what does the "body" change for the OS ? OSes are software, they don't really have any problems running inside circuitry that's laid out in any kind of casing material. You can run them on bare circuitry if you like.

What does the body of the device have to do with iOS exactly ?


What does it have to do with the iOS directly? I suppose nothing. But in terms of sales (ie. in terms of people using iOS), the aesthetics and iconic smartphone is deeply linked. You'd be dreaming if you thought the look (and status thereof) of the iPhone had nothing to do with people using iOS, which is what, I think, he was talking about.

onthecouchagain
Oct 2, 2012, 11:38 AM
Related: http://9to5mac.com/2012/10/02/study-samsung-galaxy-s-iii-sales-spike-following-apple-verdict-iphone-5-launch/

GS3 sales spike after Apple/Samsung trial and after iPhone 5 announcement.

http://9to5google.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/gs3-growth.png?w=704&h=434