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View Full Version : PC Dude takes the Apple Challenge!


voicegy
Jan 16, 2002, 11:51 PM
"Can a Windows-dependent technology columnist live happily as a Mac user? That's the question I am about to spend a month of my life trying to answer."

So begins David Coursey's article on ZDNet as he tells the world he's about to embark on the ultimate challenge...trading his Wintel world for the Mac for a month. After this Oddysey he will report back with his "findings."

http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2839242,00.html

So why is he doing this? One of his reasons is:

"First, to see if I can really take my own medicine. I've been saying that many more people should have Macs than actually do--while accepting the inevitability that comes with living in a Windows world--so now I am going to walk that walk for a while."

Well, considering the posts that I've seen around here lately of PC users warming up to the Mac (and you guys and gals are real cool to say so...Thanks, and we wish you a good journey!) and Apple's own web page discussing the Myths associated between Windows and the Mac OS, this makes for a most interesting addition.

Is this truly the beginning of world peace? Even if Apple doesn't completely win over the PC/Wintel world, (which it won't, right?) will we both be able to lay down our gloves, shake hands, and call our PC/Wintel users FRIENDS as they nod thier heads in understanding; realizing, for the first time, why we are passionate about All Things Apple?

Truly, we are living in exciting times! I'm almost teary eyed...in a month, we'll see what Mr. Coursey has to say.

(There's a little quick poll on the site, too...go get 'em!)

Scott

shergar
Jan 17, 2002, 02:29 AM
I notice he plans to run OS X on a G3. This isn't going to give him an easy time.

the WOZ
Jan 17, 2002, 04:36 AM
Im currently working on the Lisa 2.
It won't be out untill Jobs can get his **** up to a G8.

mymemory
Jan 17, 2002, 08:12 AM
He is gonna fined out what I did 15 years ago, when Atari was broke and I had to decide between Macs or PCs, I took the painfull less desition.
Even I say Atari right now would be 3.000 times better than Apple.

It took Apple 8 years to develop the same audio features, 6 more to have the resolution and colors. The Atari 520st was the first multimedia computer, lets not talk about Comodoros.

I'm a undercover Atari fan waiting for a call from my planet... that is the only way for me to drop my G4 and Pismo to the trash.

Any way, I would never going to get a PC.

sparkleytone
Jan 17, 2002, 10:12 AM
haha read the article,he uses frontpage. and he thinks of himself as highly technical. rofl.

he lightly mentioned something about desktop linux. this is a nice myth we've been hearing for years. its MY turn to tell everyone.

LINUX HAD ITS TIME! it never developed into a feasible desktop OS replacement. X was too slow, app support wasn't there, easy installation came way too late, and the best distro company (corel) was bought out by m$. the dark horse is NOT linux, its OS X.

OS X is what linux could/should have been as a desktop OS. OS X Server is a nice replacement for a linux-box for easy management.

OS X = the future.

my IB 600 works fine on OS X with a g3, altho i DO have 640MB RAM.

networkman
Jan 17, 2002, 10:35 AM
even though linux was free, it has not gone the next level even though it started with a vengeance and looked like it would kill windows within a decade

it still may be the windows killer but right now, it looks like os x is the one to watch out for

if apple ported os x to wintel, then it would stand a chance to beat windows, but right now it can't do that with it just being on 5 percent of the machines which have to be macs

os x is more user friendly and beats the heck out of windows xp

amichalo
Jan 17, 2002, 10:53 AM
I don't like some of the loopholes he creates for himself - He is stating that he will use the windows software he is used to using if available for Mac, otherwise, he will use an emulator or his PC (the notable exception being he will switch to a Palm PDA - must really hate PocketPC ;) )

Especially troubling is his reliance on FrontPage. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that there are a plethora of exceptional Web Development products available for the Mac, and against them, FrontPage is weak and buggy. Yet this is one of those can't-live-without apps I suppose.

Plus, if he wanted to give it a fair test, why not tell us what specs his XP desktop has and purchase a comparable system. I am certain XP is not clipping along on a sub-GHz P III and so he shouldn't give OS X a comparison test on a G3

shergar
Jan 17, 2002, 11:58 AM
Have to say, the whole tone of his article implies so much reliance on Windows and PCs that we are are unlikely to get a completely unbiased opinion at the end of the day. (not that we'd ever be biased ourselves - of course :) )
basically what we are going to get is a month-long audit of Office v. X on OS X. Which he's already given in precis: some extra features, some features available on Office XP missing.

ps: I don't want to assume anything but - please god - he is using 10.1 isn't he?

spikey
Jan 17, 2002, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by mymemory
He is gonna fined out what I did 15 years ago, when Atari was broke and I had to decide between Macs or PCs, I took the painfull less desition.
Even I say Atari right now would be 3.000 times better than Apple.

It took Apple 8 years to develop the same audio features, 6 more to have the resolution and colors. The Atari 520st was the first multimedia computer, lets not talk about Comodoros.

I'm a undercover Atari fan waiting for a call from my planet... that is the only way for me to drop my G4 and Pismo to the trash.

Any way, I would never going to get a PC.

Yeah but its not all about hardware. For example the commodore64 was out sold and just not as good as the spectrum, not because of hardware but because of the games available.
Just an example from the 80s gaming world.

I wear my Atari T-shirt with pride.

colocolo
Jan 17, 2002, 10:04 PM
I don;t trust this guy too much... isn't he the one who posted an article regarding the lack of usb and ieee1394 ports on the new imac, and never corrected it even after all the "educational" feedback he received?

voicegy
Feb 4, 2002, 07:42 PM
Thought I'd bring this old post back to life and check in with our friend David Coursey over at ZDNet on Week One of his iMac experience.

So far, so good. My favorite part is the "before and after" pics of his desk...one with his PC tower and screen and one with the iMac replacing it.

Somehow, it still looks like a mess, but it's a "classier" mess.

In case you wish to waste your time:

http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2844895,00.html

mywar2000
Feb 4, 2002, 10:07 PM
I'm very glad to see that they gave him a Powerbook G4 instead of the ibook.
Not that the ibook wouldn't work.. (I run X on an ibook 500; It's awesome!)

Lucky thing he broke the ibook huh?! How the hell did he do that anyway?
Mine is going strong, 6 mos now. NO problems at all. :)

tadpole
Feb 4, 2002, 10:29 PM
well its kinda hard to call linux's future right now. its a very educational OS, a gateway OS to the Unix world. i appreciate the power of the shell. linux has been ported to Sparc, Alpha, HP, SGI, PPC, RS/6000 PPC, just about every platform known to nerdkind. some of the most important mathematical modelling software has been ported to it. Oracle is going to going all linux soon for its own backbone. IBM's linux section is doing quite well for itself. the situation with linux is still way to early to tell, but it is very promising. for OSX to have the impact of linux it would have to make the code for its UI and kernel and kernel modules free for hacking. though previous poster complained about slow graphics slow adaptation of easy installation, i would have to say that after xfree 3.3.6 there was a lot of native support for 3-d hardware acceleration built in. my radeon 7500 is supported with full blown 3-d acceleration. all nvidia geforce or older are also supported. as for installation issues, linux started out as more or less of an academic/intellectual curiousity. ease of installation was not always the issue for most of the early adapters were CS people. however i would have to give SUSE a thumbs up, they've always placed an importance on straight forward installs, MANDRAKE also. Its amazing that in its short life, Linux has gained so much stability and recognition, it runs on single processors all the way up to the IBM 390 mainframe juggernauts, and it all started when Linus Torvald decided to do something interestingly fun. Grass roots revolutions like this one is what scares the living crap out of Bill Gates.

Rower_CPU
Feb 4, 2002, 10:57 PM
tadpole-

I've been checking out your posts in other threads, as well as this one. you seem to have a great deal of experience with all the variants of Unix out there.

What is your honest opinion about OS X as another one of these variants?

Don't worry, I'm not looking to pick a fight and flex my NERD muscles ;)

I've only been tinkering with the Terminal, and teaching myself how to work with a CLI, for about 6 months now. So far so good, and it has been really helpful in my work (IT and OS X Server Admin).

Even though you seem to criticize OS X sometimes in comparison to the other stuff that's out there, don't you think it's good that a more "mainstream" (although the ethereal 5% market share ain't exactly mainstream) OS has adopted FreBSD as its core?

Just curious.

Sorry to derail the thread.

tadpole
Feb 5, 2002, 12:10 AM
well, its not the greatest thing since slice bread. but its up there with mayonnaise.

OSX is a great introduction to the dark underworld of unix. Although not all Unix API's are support...yet...:-) For someone who is looking for a small taste of the good life of crap proof computing, OSX is a cheap way- though not as cheap as Linux- to get your feet wet.

Maybe its just me, but the colorful UI kind of freaks me out with its huge overhead, I run it with most of that glitz turned out. As far as I can tell its stable though we do get KP's and hangs occasionally- the devil in the machine type of things (I'm an undergrad living in a lab, we do bad baaaad things to machines, its a good thing that machines don't unionize or have sweat shop labor laws :-) and I do appreciate the fact that Apple is trying to make her little baby mainstream. As more and more technical users gain appreciation for it, you should be able to find all kinds of freeware, or free source code to be compiled for your puppy. Openoffice.org already has a full opensource based office suite for PPC Linux, but it also has source code to be compiled to any platform. Your average Mac user should be introduced into the the more adventurous world of compiling their own software. Why? For the sometimes hours of frustration, you save hundres of dollars. Plus you'll be fighting the man :-)

I know that the UI has become a huge part of the system, but personally I wished Jobs made simply an optional module, I would prefer an X like API arrangement, where the frontend can be presented by your GUI of choice. Apple can produce Aqua and then spur open source competition to produce other options. While it is great to look snazzy, sometimes I just want to get the job done without the screen hanging for seconds that do sometimes extend into eternity when I resize a window, although this has become less of a problem with the latest revision.

Overall, I think that Apple has done a whizbang job. OSX kicks the crap out of OS9 and previous revisions, the multitasking is a lot smoother, things don't stick so badly- ever noticed how in OS9 that windows stick or or stall with the more apps you're running? Even if you have a crapload of ram? This was particularly a hassle for websurfing and reading multiple .pdfs. Basing the kernel on FreeBSD was a good idea, not getting Posix compliance is a bad idea. If they can get over this, and nail it into people's heads that Unix will always be God's gift to machine people, we would all be better off. All of the so called moderned OS features like protected memory, preemptive multitasking, etc, were developed in Unix first. I love the shell, the shell is a beautiful thing, the shell makes sense and it speaks to me. I remember my first OS: IBM DOS 3.0 (second or third grade), it came in a linen binder and while it had a rudimentary GUI, the first of its kind almost everything was run through the shell. Microsuck eventually started doing away with the Shell, but Unix kept with it, the thing about the shell is that it teaches discipline and a respect for what the OS is really all about- keeping you and the hardware in your respective corners unless someone really gets messed up. Lastly, eventhough she isn't all Unix, she's unix enough to be used a file/web server to move my stuff across campus and have secured connection while doing it. Something just feels so right to be able to log on to my beloved machine and check to see how she's doing and grab a couple of huge files. I suppose windows users will never understand this.

What I would like to see Apple doing:

Test the code of OSX, produce a secured version like Sun's "Trusted" versions of Solaris or like OpenBSD's insane fortress like security.

Apply to the open software foundation to get Unix status, it will takes a while, but once they get the stamp of approval, they can really reap the benefits of preexisting unixwarez.

You really want to flush the market with software? Give it away free to students or have them pay for the media kit but give the license away free. It gives the OS more exposure. We undergrads appreciate all good things free: beer, food, software.....:-) Also sponsor coding contests with promises of scholarships, hardware, etc. for Darwin. What's made Free/OpenBSD and Linux so popular was it was free and accessible, there are many nerds out there living in cardboard boxes with nothing to their names but huge freaking machines or dorms and huge freaking machines and once the word got out that we didn't have to pay for a *nix, there was warmth in our hearts. Sure Darwin is open source, but what about the UI? All or nothing baby!

I'm personally waiting for that G5 with 64bit OSX, and if its cheaper than getting a Sun, I'll be the first to brag on this site.

Mike Gagne
Feb 5, 2002, 02:56 AM
I think he is gonna make it..... I predict he will even like it

barkmonster
Feb 5, 2002, 07:22 AM
It took Apple 8 years to develop the same audio features, 6 more to have the resolution and colors. The Atari 520st was the first multimedia computer, lets not talk about Comodoros.

I'm a undercover Atari fan waiting for a call from my planet... that is the only way for me to drop my G4 and Pismo to the trash.

I agree totally. The Falcon 030 still kicks the crap out of the macs Audio/midi capabilities today, we're still stuck with 44.1Khz 16bit audio, no inputs, no midi ports, what passes for midi is lame USB interfaces, the only way of having atari quality midi is to use a serial port midi interface and the only way of even recording anything to any decent quality means adding some expensive 3rd party hardware from Digidesign or MOTU.

I think if the falcon was brought up to spec today it would have a 1Ghz G4 and DSP hardware in the same league as at least the Korg OASYS. all for £1,299 and you'd still be able to plug it into a TV and run all the old ST and Falcon 030 stuff on it!!!

Also, remember multiTOS and MiNT ? It took NeXT to come along for anything remotely mac like to do that, now about a decade later apple have their own equivelent at last. Atari's demise sent me straight to the mac because Apple and Atari are the only computer companies I've ever had any intention of spending money on. when I first did work experience in high school and saw what OS 7 on a mac could do I made it my goal to actually own a mac one day, I stuck with the ST till late '98 and got myself a beige G3 and I've never looked back since. plus now I'm in my mid twenties, I can look back on my career in DTP/Graphic Design that more than likely wouldn't have happened if I'd never used a mac!!

eyelikeart
Feb 5, 2002, 11:28 AM
I was listening to a morning radio show this morning....

the dj was complaining about how much peecees suck and how many times Windoze crashes on them a week....all of this because their peecee crashed and lost 12 hours of their show work they had saved....

and then he went on how Macs run so much better and they don't crash...and now he wants to buy a new iMac....

he he he... :p

Matthé
Feb 5, 2002, 05:26 PM
it irritates me how stupid all of the reviewers of the new iMac are
sure they're mostly positive but what i can't get my head around is the fact that they always point out that apple went form over function with the placement of the ports (the back)
as long as they're not concerned with esthetics, why not rotata the base 90° so the cd flips out on the left and the ports are on the right instead of the back. the screen can be rotated any which way you want so... what's the fu©kin' problem?
dumba$$es!