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MacRumors
Oct 16, 2012, 02:52 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/16/phil-schiller-says-new-ipod-touch-too-thin-for-ambient-light-sensor/)


Since the introduction of the fifth-generation iPod touch last month, a number of observers noted that the tech specs for the device no longer listed an ambient light sensor included as had been the case in previous generations, and users have indeed confirmed that the automatic brightness feature controlled by the sensor is missing in the latest model.

Apple senior vice president Phil Schiller (http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/philip-w-schiller.html) has responded to a customer's email inquiry (http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/10/16/purported-email-from-phil-schiller-explains-lack-of-ambient-light-sensor-in-5th-gen-ipod-touch/) asking about the lack of an ALS. Raghid Harake emailed Schiller (https://twitter.com/raghiid/status/258222659949703170) and the executive wrote back, saying that the 5th generation iPod touch lacks the sensor because the device is simply too thin:

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/10/NewImage22.png
The teardown of the new iPod Touch shows just how cramped (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/11/ifixit-tears-down-apples-fifth-generation-ipod-touch/) the interior of the device is, and the ALS is one of the components that Apple's engineers were forced to leave out to make everything fit.

Article Link: Phil Schiller Says New iPod Touch 'Too Thin' for Ambient Light Sensor (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/16/phil-schiller-says-new-ipod-touch-too-thin-for-ambient-light-sensor/)



ltcol266845
Oct 16, 2012, 02:55 PM
No big loss IMO, the light sensor drives me crazy.

Clown Boy
Oct 16, 2012, 02:55 PM
Lol fail again Apple

WordMasterRice
Oct 16, 2012, 03:00 PM
I don't understand how the thickness of the device is an excuse. Make it thicker then. At what point is dropping features so that it can be thinner going to stop.

Edit: By the way that is a flat out lie, the ambient light sensor is a surface mount component no bigger than the capacitors that are already in there.

Aluminum213
Oct 16, 2012, 03:00 PM
Classic example of making something thinner for no logical reason

iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.

baleensavage
Oct 16, 2012, 03:01 PM
No big loss IMO, the light sensor drives me crazy.
Same here. I find that the screen is always dimming precisely when you don't want it to with the auto sensor. I'd rather just dim it myself if it's dark (though it would be nice if the brightness wasn't buried in settings so far).

ThE.MeSsEnGeR
Oct 16, 2012, 03:01 PM
woop! woop! it's a Lebanese guy :D

deannnnn
Oct 16, 2012, 03:01 PM
No big loss IMO, the light sensor drives me crazy.

Same. I leave it disabled on my iPhone all the time. It's far more annoying than it is helpful.

ltcol266845
Oct 16, 2012, 03:02 PM
Same here. I find that the screen is always dimming precisely when you don't want it to with the auto sensor. I'd rather just dim it myself if it's dark (though it would be nice if the brightness wasn't buried in settings so far).

Especially when holding the phone in landscape (with the headphone jack on the bottom!) for typing or watching videos.

MasterHowl
Oct 16, 2012, 03:02 PM
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...

morphineseason
Oct 16, 2012, 03:03 PM
Is there really a need for it in an iPod? You don't hold it up to your ear to talk to someone, and auto brightness really isn't a necessity. I don't see much of a loss here.

Icaras
Oct 16, 2012, 03:05 PM
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...

Steve said many of those same things on stage himself.

zbarvian
Oct 16, 2012, 03:06 PM
Classic example of making something thinner for no logical reason

iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.

Yeah, but the 5 is sexxxxyyy. Thin and light makes thick and heavy look so antiquated. I agree that they could've achieved some phenomenal battery life, but I like the design too much; I can't imagine having a thicker phone again.

appleguy123
Oct 16, 2012, 03:06 PM
We shouldn't be sacrificing features just so that Apple can say that a device is thinner. When I held the 4th gen iPod touch, I already thought that it was too thin. Not very comfortable to hold IMO.

dethmaShine
Oct 16, 2012, 03:07 PM
One of the biggest examples why going 'thin' will reduce functionality in our devices.

Form over function Apple —— DROP IT.

MasterHowl
Oct 16, 2012, 03:08 PM
Steve said many of those same things on stage himself.

But never appeared desperate or like he was trying to be persuasive.

Just watch the demo Forstall did at the last keynote. It was screaming "desperation"!

akm3
Oct 16, 2012, 03:11 PM
Making "X" thinner is impressive.

Making "X" thinning by subtracting features is not as impressive.

Making "X" thinner while adding features? Blows our minds!

pgiguere1
Oct 16, 2012, 03:14 PM
I wonder if one day they'll remove the 3.5" audio jack to make iDevices thinner.

No problem, just use our AirPods™ Bluetooth headphones!

Icaras
Oct 16, 2012, 03:14 PM
But never appeared desperate or like he was trying to be persuasive.

Just watch the demo Forstall did at the last keynote. It was screaming "desperation"!

Perhaps, but just for giggles, here's a quick montage of Steve. :D

http://youtu.be/Nx7v815bYUw

ouimetnick
Oct 16, 2012, 03:17 PM
I would have either kept it the same thickness or made a slightly thicker (to fit the ALS and make the rear camera flush and not some fugly bulging thing.)

MasterHowl
Oct 16, 2012, 03:18 PM
Perhaps, but just for giggles, here's a quick montage of Steve. :D

http://youtu.be/Nx7v815bYUw

Hahaaa that's pretty funny :D

ChromeCloud
Oct 16, 2012, 03:19 PM
They say the sensor has been left out because there is not enough room for it, but they found room for the silly "apple loop" plug that is like 10 times the size of such sensor.

Phil, Phil... Really? -.-'

nagromme
Oct 16, 2012, 03:22 PM
iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.

And you never will. They’re trapped underneath the thing.

I for one prefer thinness over a light sensor... but I don’t care that much.

samcraig
Oct 16, 2012, 03:23 PM
I wonder if one day they'll remove the 3.5" audio jack to make iDevices thinner.

No problem, just use our AirPods™ Bluetooth headphones!

Don't be ridiculous. Before they did that - they would create a new proprietary connector (like lightening) rendering every single wired headset useless so you had to buy their headphones. Now they might license the tech to a select few - but not for several months.

And oh yeah - the new headsets wouldn't come with the iDevice - it would be sold separately. Also available would be an adapter IF you wanted to use regular headphones

flashflooder
Oct 16, 2012, 03:27 PM
Classic example of making something thinner for no logical reason

iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.

I'm usually of a similar mind, but once you've used a 5 for a while there's no going back. The 4/4S really DO feel like bricks.

That said, it is kinda shocking they'd remove this feature from the iPod Touch.

TheRainKing
Oct 16, 2012, 03:29 PM
Next year...


To Phil Schiller

Phil, I can't find the volume buttons on the new iPod touch 6th generation, and I don't hear any sound when playing music. Care to explain why, sir?
Thanks
Raghid from Lebanon


Response from Phil Schiller

Hi Raghid.

Thank you for purchasing the new iPod touch. It's a remarkable device!
The 6th generation does not have any volume buttons or the speaker anymore (it's just too thin!).

PS. We are thinking about removing the battery next year.

Sent from my iPhone

CrAkD
Oct 16, 2012, 03:30 PM
Classic example of making something thinner for no logical reason

iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.

Ya and if they did that the amount of people whining because its not different enough from the 4s would be double.

Btw I'm home with my 5 plugged in because I went from 100% to 4% in 6 and. Half hours cause I turned auto brightness on. That can't be right. I wish we didn't need an ALS in the iPhone cause auto brightness by itself is unnecessary.

iEnvy
Oct 16, 2012, 03:32 PM
Are you guys really complaining about something so meaningless in the iPod Touch? Look at the main consumer for iPod touches-Tweens and Teens. Why the hell would it matter if it had the ALS?

samcraig
Oct 16, 2012, 03:32 PM
Next year...


To Phil Schiller

Phil, I can't find the volume buttons on the new iPod touch 6th generation, and I don't hear any sound when playing music. Care to explain why, sir?
Thanks
Raghid from Lebanon


Response from Phil Schiller

Hi Raghid.

Thank you for purchasing the new iPod touch. It's a remarkable device!
The 6th generation does not have any volume buttons or the speaker anymore (it's just too thin!).

PS. We are thinking about removing the battery next year. Imagine how thin the iPod touch will be!

Sent from my iPhone

And the year after


To Phil Schiller

Phil, why do I need to keep my iPod touch 7th Generation plugged in? If I unplug it, it shuts off. Care to explain why, sir?

Thanks
Raghid from Lebanon


Response from Phil Schiller

Hi Raghid.

Thank you for purchasing the new iPod touch. It's a remarkable device!
The 7th generation does not have a battery anymore (it's just too thin!).


Sent from my iPhone

eta: d'oh I didn't see your PS before I typed this!

840quadra
Oct 16, 2012, 03:39 PM
I wonder why they don't use the Front facing camera as a light sensor, like they currently do on the MacBooks ? :confused:

I am sure there has to be a way for them to activate only a couple photo cells to monitor light levels and such.

notjustjay
Oct 16, 2012, 03:41 PM
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).



C'mon, what do you expect them to say?

"Yeah, you're right, it kinda sucks doesn't it."

"Damn, Steve wouldn't have let that happen. I'll look into it."

"Don't buy one then. I'm not!"

samcraig
Oct 16, 2012, 03:42 PM
I wonder why they don't use the Front facing camera as a light sensor, like they currently do on the MacBooks ? :confused:

I am sure there has to be a way for them to activate only a couple photo cells to monitor light levels and such.

It's just too thin. Why can't you understand this. You think if it could be done, Apple would have done it?! What is wrong with you?! ;)

Anuba
Oct 16, 2012, 03:42 PM
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of.
Dude, they're totally parroting Steve. Your memory must be very selective. I watched a few of his old keynotes last week and he used the words "thin" and "gorgeous" in every other sentence. "Look at that! Isn't that gorgeous? Unbelllliieeeeevably thin! It's amazing. Get the camera closer so they can see. See that? Just gorgeous... sooo thin..."
He talked like that right from the unveiling of the original Mac in 1984 to his very last Keynote.

iGrip
Oct 16, 2012, 03:53 PM
Lol fail again Apple

No way. Apple will sell just as many despite the light sensor omission. And because the design is less costly to build, they will make increased profits.

Apple genius again is more like it.

JBaker122586
Oct 16, 2012, 03:53 PM
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...

Steve?
As in, Jobs?

He of the, "It's the most amazing device we've ever built," "Isn't that great?" "It's like magic"?

nofunsir
Oct 16, 2012, 03:57 PM
Since I got the new iPod touch, I tore apart my iPod touch 2g this weekend. The ambient light sensor from 2008 is so tiny, I seriously doubt they couldn't fit the sensor in the 5g, let alone an updated 2012 ambient light sensor.

P.S. I guess modding iOS to use the camera wasn't in the statement of work, either.

Mactendo
Oct 16, 2012, 04:04 PM
Phil, I have noticed that there's no display on my new iMac released on October 24. Just a framed square hole. Care to explain, Sir?
Thanks
Raghid from Lebanon

***

Hi Raghid,

Thank you for purchasing the new iMac! It is a remarkable device!
The new iMac doesn't have a display (it's just too thin!)

Phil

Mylok
Oct 16, 2012, 04:10 PM
Same here. I find that the screen is always dimming precisely when you don't want it to with the auto sensor. I'd rather just dim it myself if it's dark (though it would be nice if the brightness wasn't buried in settings so far).

If you want to dim your brightness, check this app out;

http://at.ominx.eu/qb

ppc_michael
Oct 16, 2012, 04:15 PM
Maybe they're just making the features list thinner.

asd789789
Oct 16, 2012, 04:15 PM
"it's just too thin!"

I see some memes coming :D

Mactendo
Oct 16, 2012, 04:17 PM
Since I got the new iPod touch, I tore apart my iPod touch 2g this weekend. The ambient light sensor from 2008 is so tiny, I seriously doubt they couldn't fit the sensor in the 5g, let alone an updated 2012 ambient light sensor.

The light sensor will return in the next generation of iPod as a "new feature". One step back, two steps forward, this is how many are doing business these days. And after each step they sell millions of devices either as a novice item (look, it's so thin!) either as a more full featured device (hey, you wanted a light sensor, here it is again!).

komodrone
Oct 16, 2012, 04:18 PM
"Maps are SO beautiful"


but the new Maps app IS SO BEAUTIFUL. If were comparing visually, I'd take vector Maps over Google's rasterized maps any day.

Anuba
Oct 16, 2012, 04:21 PM
I don't understand how the thickness of the device is an excuse. Make it thicker then. At what point is dropping features so that it can be thinner going to stop.
It stops when Apple finds their next big sales point. For many years it was speed. The G3 was a "Pentium toaster" and the G5 was a "supercomputer". Keynotes involved long boring explanations about how clock frequency isn't everything, and demonstrations of how fast this or that Mac loaded some huge Pixar movie poster document into Photoshop, etc etc.

When they switched to Intel they obviously couldn't keep going with their rigged speed tests, they had no real or feigned competitive edge in the speed department since the competition used the exact same Intel processors. That's when this whole "thin" and "gorgeous" craziness grew from side dish to main course. Once the "thinner than the last one" pattern had been established, they had painted themselves into a corner. It's taken for granted now and the stock would probably plummet whenever a keynote presentation doesn't feature the mandatory thickness comparison slide.

So all we can do is wait for them to hit a brick wall, or for someone to hit Jony Ive WITH a brick wall.

Edit: By the way that is a flat out lie, the ambient light sensor is a surface mount component no bigger than the capacitors that are already in there.
Schiller is vice president of marketing, not engineering, no point in scrutinizing his ramblings from a technological standpoint.

but the new Maps app IS SO BEAUTIFUL. If were comparing visually, I'd take vector Maps over Google's rasterized maps any day.
Yes, they are indeed beautiful. I sat for hours marveling at the details of Manhattan and Stockholm in glorious 3D. Then I thought, hold on... this has squat to do with the function of a map application, it's for orientation, getting you from A to B, and finding points of interest like restaurants. From that perspective, maps sucks ass. Especially for the 510,000 citizens of Gothenburg, Sweden whose home town didn't even exist according to Maps. It had literally dropped off the map.

TheRainKing
Oct 16, 2012, 04:24 PM
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...

Like others have pointed out, Steve was the master of the very thing your complaining about. During every keynote he ever did he would constantly use phrases like "This is the most amazing product Apple has ever made" "It's so gorgeous" "It is breathtaking" You won't believe it, until you hold it" "It's magical" etc..

I think the difference between Steve saying it, and the others saying it, is that when Steve said it, he actually sounded like he believed what he was saying, whereas when the others say it, you can tell they are just repeating what they have heard Steve say, hoping to create the same effect. Basically it sounds very phoney when the others say it, maybe thats why it bothers you.

APlotdevice
Oct 16, 2012, 04:33 PM
Don't be ridiculous. Before they did that - they would create a new proprietary connector (like lightening) rendering every single wired headset useless so you had to buy their headphones. Now they might license the tech to a select few - but not for several months.

And oh yeah - the new headsets wouldn't come with the iDevice - it would be sold separately. Also available would be an adapter IF you wanted to use regular headphones

Jokes aside, I actually wouldn't mind a new type of headphone connector. Preferably one that connects magnetically, so that when your headphones get yanked your whole device doesn't go with them.

CindyRed
Oct 16, 2012, 04:43 PM
Ambient light sensor: a.k.a The first thing I turn off on all my Apple products. This news would only be tragic if the ALS on Apple products worked well and wasn't sensitive to EVERY change in light levels, including a cloud partially blocking the sun for a nanosecond.

jrswizzle
Oct 16, 2012, 04:50 PM
Don't be ridiculous. Before they did that - they would create a new proprietary connector (like lightening) rendering every single wired headset useless so you had to buy their headphones. Now they might license the tech to a select few - but not for several months.

And oh yeah - the new headsets wouldn't come with the iDevice - it would be sold separately. Also available would be an adapter IF you wanted to use regular headphones

wah wah wah....give me a break. How many micro/mini/other USB cables have there been over the last decade? How many Apple 30 pin connectors? Right...

A company tries to help push people further into the wireless age and all we do is complain they didn't GIVE me some adapter so I can use all my old stuff with my new stuff. Oh by the way - this happened one time in 10 years. And will only happen again in another 10 years.....I'm pretty sure a $30 adapter spread over 10 years so you can use your older outdated stuff shouldn't be too much for those who spent hundreds on a phone...

But we gotta complain don't we :rolleyes:

ouimetnick
Oct 16, 2012, 04:55 PM
I wonder why they don't use the Front facing camera as a light sensor, like they currently do on the MacBooks ? :confused:

I am sure there has to be a way for them to activate only a couple photo cells to monitor light levels and such.

They don't use the camera. The MacBooks, iMacs, etc have an ALS sensor. Opposite the camera light.

baryon
Oct 16, 2012, 05:02 PM
Mine stopped working after some iOS update on my iPod Touch, hasn't worked for 3 years… not a big problem really! When it did work, it took like 5 minutes to adjust to a new light condition, which meant that it was pointless anyway, more annoying than anything…


I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...

But Apple has always been like this, even Steve. I even remember seeing a video compilation of a few minutes of Steve just saying stuff like "Amazing" "Wonderful" "Gorgeous", etc… It was funny, but that's Apple's style. And iOS updates didn't always have such groundbreaking features, except for maybe multitasking, once.

Come on, the lack of light sensor in the new Touch is not a decline in quality. For one, the new iPod Touch has a flash for the camera, isn't that a good tradeoff?

bigpics
Oct 16, 2012, 05:06 PM
Classic example of making something thinner for no logical reason

iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.
Well, now you have. Whenever I pick one up, it's like this heavy little angular brick that never whispered "buy me" in my ear.

I like the feel and heft of the 5 much better.

That aside, more battery life is always a desiradata in its own right, so looking forward to advances in the tech, and feel the 5 is "thin enough," though knowing Apple over the years, their philosophy is the same as any fashion model's: "You can never be too light or too thin."

Plutonius
Oct 16, 2012, 05:08 PM
I would have either kept it the same thickness or made a slightly thicker (to fit the ALS and make the rear camera flush and not some fugly bulging thing.)

Look at the teardown of the iPod Touch 5. The new camera took up much of the space where the ambient sensor was. They wouldn't have been able to fit in the ambient sensor even if they kept the thickness the same.

samcraig
Oct 16, 2012, 05:18 PM
wah wah wah....give me a break. How many micro/mini/other USB cables have there been over the last decade? How many Apple 30 pin connectors? Right...

A company tries to help push people further into the wireless age and all we do is complain they didn't GIVE me some adapter so I can use all my old stuff with my new stuff. Oh by the way - this happened one time in 10 years. And will only happen again in another 10 years.....I'm pretty sure a $30 adapter spread over 10 years so you can use your older outdated stuff shouldn't be too much for those who spent hundreds on a phone...

But we gotta complain don't we :rolleyes:

No "we" don't. But you might get a sense of humor. I was clearly being sarcastic. Heavily so.

cababah
Oct 16, 2012, 05:30 PM
The iPod touch does not need a light sensor. You are thinking about it wrong.

saxofunk
Oct 16, 2012, 05:32 PM
The only thing that was too thin for Schiller was the profit margin.

They could have put laser holes in the edge of the aluminum and turned it 90˚ or made it like a periscope to reduce thickness.

Apple has lost it's creativity.

blackcrayon
Oct 16, 2012, 05:36 PM
Well, at least they could've added quick brightness controls to the iOS handhelds like they have on the iPad in the double-click & swipe menu...

APlotdevice
Oct 16, 2012, 05:44 PM
Well, at least they could've added quick brightness controls to the iOS handhelds like they have on the iPad in the double-click & swipe menu...

Aye. It'd be a lot more useful than that bloody volume slider.

scottsjack
Oct 16, 2012, 05:49 PM
Classic example of making something thinner for no logical reason

iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.

Exactly. "Thinness" is a mental disease over at Apple. They repeatedly make products thinner (MBP, mini, now iMac?) as if thinness is some kind of technical goal. I prefer to think of performance and flexibility as technical goals. As an example if a laptop becomes too thin for a real Ethernet plug it then becomes less useful. Who wants products that are less useful while usually being as, or more, expensive?

bretm
Oct 16, 2012, 05:50 PM
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...

You're thinking about it wrong.

pk7
Oct 16, 2012, 06:15 PM
I can see this Raghid-Phil exchange becoming a popular theme or "meme" :D

Dr McKay
Oct 16, 2012, 06:16 PM
Next year...


To Phil Schiller

Phil, I can't find the volume buttons on the new iPod touch 6th generation, and I don't hear any sound when playing music. Care to explain why, sir?
Thanks
Raghid from Lebanon


Response from Phil Schiller

Hi Raghid.

Thank you for purchasing the new iPod touch. It's a remarkable device!
The 6th generation does not have any volume buttons or the speaker anymore (it's just too thin!).

PS. We are thinking about removing the battery next year.

Sent from my iPhone

The funny thing is looking at the side of my iPhone 5, if they want to make the next one any thinner, they'll have to make the volume buttons smaller.

Saladinos
Oct 16, 2012, 06:17 PM
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...

True. Apple used to under-promise and over-deliver. They've been making an awful lot of small (and big), almost careless blunders recently, which has flipped that on its head. That's a bad position to be, because it erodes at your reputation.

That said, they've got a lot of pressure on them. They're the biggest company in the world, and they're more closely watched than any company in history (by people like us, not to mention their competitors!). Creativity demands time and inspiration; it doesn't happen on-demand.

Apple has definitely become a more corporate and a lot sloppier in their results since Steve died. It's not fatal yet, but if it continues Apple are just going to become vulnerable to the same kinds of values that helped it originally - attention to detail, care and quality. For the mean time, Apple have a reputation that will give them enough time to rediscover those virtues.

One example: all of the technological masturbation that goes on with Apple photographing casings and matching glass panels to microns; diamond-cut bevels and the like. A lot of people would point to that and say it shows attention to detail and quality concerns.

But then, the device goes and scratches off its colouring after less than a month of light use. That's not attention to detail. That's not focus; having micron-aligned glass is a useless distraction if the other parts aren't equally as well thought out.

Apple used to make the best all-around products. Some parts weren't as good, some parts were better, and the sum was the best available machine from anyone. They seem to have lost that balance for selecting the things to focus on. I don't agree with their priorities at the product level. I wish I was there to offer a counterpoint.

Swift
Oct 16, 2012, 06:57 PM
Steve said many of those same things on stage himself.

I think in part, that shows how good he was in those reveals. He sounded like he really believed it. He did. That's a good salesman. Nobody in the new crew is quite as good as Steve, so it sounds flat and forced.

But they're pretty much following Steve's old scripts.

jrswizzle
Oct 16, 2012, 07:03 PM
No "we" don't. But you might get a sense of humor. I was clearly being sarcastic. Heavily so.

Lol come on Sam - you know I like to bust your chops.

rjalda100
Oct 16, 2012, 07:12 PM
I even found my 4th gen to be too thin, so I really don't see why they needed to make it even thinner.

Scrumper
Oct 16, 2012, 07:13 PM
Exactly. "Thinness" is a mental disease over at Apple. They repeatedly make products thinner (MBP, mini, now iMac?) as if thinness is some kind of technical goal. I prefer to think of performance and flexibility as technical goals. As an example if a laptop becomes too thin for a real Ethernet plug it then becomes less useful. Who wants products that are less useful while usually being as, or more, expensive?

Well said indeed! While it's just about understandable that some people might value thinness of mobile products; to make an iMac thinner just so you can say, "Hey, we made it thinner!" and then have to drop features and deal with overheating issues, etc, when all the time the stand it sits on is necessarily far wider/fatter/deeper and determines the amount of desk depth required... well you get the point.

Although the ALS never worked efficiently enough to be useful on my iPod Touch 4th gen, the point is that features should not be dropped BECAUSE "it's too thin".

wankey
Oct 16, 2012, 07:15 PM
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...

This is hilarious.

Steve jobs was the one who started doing this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx7v815bYUw

It's sad seeing people say steve wouldn't have done this, steve wouldn't have done that.

Steve WOULD HAVE, and DID DO IT. You all were just brainwashed by his ridiculous marketing skills and manipulative speech therapy. Remember, a lie told a hundred times becomes the truth.

I think Apple is still Apple, and they are doing a good job. Stop saying Steve did a better job, Apple did a great job, Steve was just the cherry on top.

----------

Well said indeed! While it's just about understandable that some people might value thinness of mobile products; to make an iMac thinner just so you can say, "Hey, we made it thinner!" and then have to drop features and deal with overheating issues, etc, when all the time the stand it sits on is necessarily far wider/fatter/deeper and determines the amount of desk depth required... well you get the point.

Although the ALS never worked efficiently enough to be useful on my iPod Touch 4th gen, the point is that features should not be dropped BECAUSE "it's too thin".

Thin is no a disease, it's the future. The same concept could be applied to 5 inch thick laptops, at the time, who needed a 4 inch thick laptop? 3inch thick laptop?

AN INCH THICK LAPTOP? Who needs that right?

Now you look at 1 inch thick laptops are say they're too thick, macbook airs are the norm.

In the future macbook airs will be the powerhouse pro laptops that put on weight for the performance.

shadowbird423
Oct 16, 2012, 07:27 PM
I wonder why they don't use the Front facing camera as a light sensor, like they currently do on the MacBooks ? :confused:

I am sure there has to be a way for them to activate only a couple photo cells to monitor light levels and such.

The way someone explained it to me, it's not possible because the camera is too big a power drain... And the privacy issues would be hard to overcome anyway.

----------

True. Apple used to under-promise and over-deliver. They've been making an awful lot of small (and big), almost careless blunders recently, which has flipped that on its head. That's a bad position to be, because it erodes at your reputation.

That said, they've got a lot of pressure on them. They're the biggest company in the world, and they're more closely watched than any company in history (by people like us, not to mention their competitors!). Creativity demands time and inspiration; it doesn't happen on-demand.

Apple has definitely become a more corporate and a lot sloppier in their results since Steve died. It's not fatal yet, but if it continues Apple are just going to become vulnerable to the same kinds of values that helped it originally - attention to detail, care and quality. For the mean time, Apple have a reputation that will give them enough time to rediscover those virtues.

One example: all of the technological masturbation that goes on with Apple photographing casings and matching glass panels to microns; diamond-cut bevels and the like. A lot of people would point to that and say it shows attention to detail and quality concerns.

But then, the device goes and scratches off its colouring after less than a month of light use. That's not attention to detail. That's not focus; having micron-aligned glass is a useless distraction if the other parts aren't equally as well thought out.

Apple used to make the best all-around products. Some parts weren't as good, some parts were better, and the sum was the best available machine from anyone. They seem to have lost that balance for selecting the things to focus on. I don't agree with their priorities at the product level. I wish I was there to offer a counterpoint.

Sad. Spot on, but sad.

Shade12
Oct 16, 2012, 07:53 PM
True plus my light sensor on my iPhone 4S is turned off cuz it's so anoying.

Jessica Lares
Oct 16, 2012, 08:08 PM
All my light sensors are turned off in every device I own. Heck, Amazon shipped a broken one in the first Kindle Fire even!

Light sensors, while the idea is really great, doesn't really benefit us. Because no matter how low or high you have the brightness, it's going to look horrible on a sunny day outside.

ALCRON
Oct 16, 2012, 08:31 PM
I don't understand how the thickness of the device is an excuse. Make it thicker then. At what point is dropping features so that it can be thinner going to stop.

Edit: By the way that is a flat out lie, the ambient light sensor is a surface mount component no bigger than the capacitors that are already in there.

Perhaps tolerances in design are higher then you seem to suggest?

840quadra
Oct 16, 2012, 08:54 PM
They don't use the camera. The MacBooks, iMacs, etc have an ALS sensor. Opposite the camera light.

Thanks for that, I have one of the first unibody models, and I never noticed that :) . Have to look super close to even see it. :eek:

hamkor04
Oct 16, 2012, 08:59 PM
I don't understand how the thickness of the device is an excuse. Make it thicker then. At what point is dropping features so that it can be thinner going to stop.

Edit: By the way that is a flat out lie, the ambient light sensor is a surface mount component no bigger than the capacitors that are already in there.

so next update will be 3mm thick.
guy from Lebanon again emailing to Schiller

"Sir, I bought new iPod touch SS (super slim)
I love my device but can find the power button,
Is't me? or it's normal to not find the power button?
Thanks"

Phil
"Thank you for purchasing new iPod touch SS, it's f***g great product.
there is no room to worry, nothing wrong with you.
new iPod SS too thin for battery thats why our hardware team came up with this new brilliant idea(not include the Power button, and consumers don't notice that there is no battery)
Phil"

Drunken Master
Oct 16, 2012, 10:08 PM
Classic example of making something thinner for no logical reason

iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.

My dad picked up my 4S and remarked how heavy it was (he uses a company Blackberry but just acquired an old 3GS too).

Quit lying to yourself to prove a point.

rtues-d2
Oct 16, 2012, 10:21 PM
Next year...


To Phil Schiller

Phil, I can't find the volume buttons on the new iPod touch 6th generation, and I don't hear any sound when playing music. Care to explain why, sir?
Thanks
Raghid from Lebanon


Response from Phil Schiller

Hi Raghid.

Thank you for purchasing the new iPod touch. It's a remarkable device!
The 6th generation does not have any volume buttons or the speaker anymore (it's just too thin!).

PS. We are thinking about removing the battery next year.

Sent from my iPhoneHahaha that reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA

gatearray
Oct 16, 2012, 10:32 PM
My dad picked up my 4S and remarked how heavy it was (he uses a company Blackberry but just acquired an old 3GS too).

Quit lying to yourself to prove a point.

Yep, my mom stepped into the future with a 4S last March, and she said the same thing. Upgrading from a cheapo plastic smartphone illicits this response every time. With the 5, not so much anymore. :)

maxwelltech
Oct 16, 2012, 10:34 PM
Kind of sucks, but I think they have to keep the difference between the iPhone and the iPod touch. The iPod touch 5 has the same screen as the iPhone 5, instead of a non-IPS display in the 4th gen.

mrsir2009
Oct 16, 2012, 10:44 PM
The 5th gen iPod Touch was so thin it was uncomfortable to hold without a case (IMO anyway) - So what do they do? Sacrifice features to make it even thinner!

Aluminum213
Oct 16, 2012, 11:15 PM
My dad picked up my 4S and remarked how heavy it was (he uses a company Blackberry but just acquired an old 3GS too).

Quit lying to yourself to prove a point.

lying to myself? wow, pathetic apple fanboy who is controlled by the balls of Apple's marketing team

Swordylove
Oct 16, 2012, 11:28 PM
I'm surprised he even read an e-mail titled only "Hi".

Fruit Cake
Oct 17, 2012, 01:23 AM
Sounds more like a cop out cost saving measure. Most cheap no name android devices have no ambient light sensor.

Broph
Oct 17, 2012, 01:42 AM
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...

The one word that really got up my goat when Cook was doing the iPhone presentation was 'phenomenal'.... He said that word way too much. It actually made me think the same thing... That they were desperate to impress.

Fruit Cake
Oct 17, 2012, 01:47 AM
All my light sensors are turned off in every device I own. Heck, Amazon shipped a broken one in the first Kindle Fire even!

Light sensors, while the idea is really great, doesn't really benefit us. Because no matter how low or high you have the brightness, it's going to look horrible on a sunny day outside.

Speak for yourself, they benefit me plenty.

locust76
Oct 17, 2012, 02:07 AM
It's sad seeing people say steve wouldn't have done this, steve wouldn't have done that.

Steve WOULD HAVE, and DID DO IT. You all were just brainwashed by his ridiculous marketing skills and manipulative speech therapy. Remember, a lie told a hundred times becomes the truth.

I think Apple is still Apple, and they are doing a good job. Stop saying Steve did a better job, Apple did a great job, Steve was just the cherry on top.

Not to mention the countless features and changes that made Apple products the huge successes that they are that Steve was fervently against until his employees argued him into submission.

gaximus
Oct 17, 2012, 02:21 AM
It's not too thin. If they can fit a 5mp camera in it, which is use eccentually 5 million light sensors, they could easily fit in one more. What he meant to say was its too thin for an affordable light sensor, otherwise we would lose a few cents per device.

Drunken Master
Oct 17, 2012, 03:40 AM
lying to myself? wow, pathetic apple fanboy who is controlled by the balls of Apple's marketing team

Not really, name a smartphone that's heavier than the 4S that's also a comprable size. Glass and stainless steel are heavy compared to plastic, that's just a fact.

I love my phone though and now the iPod Touch feels really thin and light because of that.

Also, next time I would appreciate capitalization, punctuation and a lack of ad hominem attacks. If I'm to respond to your ignorance then it's the least you could do.

Jibbajabba
Oct 17, 2012, 04:05 AM
Are you guys really complaining about something so meaningless in the iPod Touch? Look at the main consumer for iPod touches-Tweens and Teens. Why the hell would it matter if it had the ALS?

Because people like to moan .. that is all they have :D

anomie
Oct 17, 2012, 04:38 AM
But never appeared desperate or like he was trying to be persuasive.

Just watch the demo Forstall did at the last keynote. It was screaming "desperation"!

No, it is only because you were so much in love with Steve Jobs, that his BS didn´t sound like BS to you.
But when Shiller or Forstall talk the same BS you realize how BS this BS is.

NightFox
Oct 17, 2012, 05:56 AM
I wonder if one day they'll remove the 3.5" audio jack to make iDevices thinner.

No problem, just use our AirPods™ Bluetooth headphones!

Hey, don't joke! Look what happened to the floppy drive and the optical media drive. If Apple decide we don't need it any more, we don't get it any more.

robeddie
Oct 17, 2012, 06:15 AM
[/COLOR]The light sensor will return in the next generation of iPod as a "new feature". One step back, two steps forward, this is how many are doing business these days. And after each step they sell millions of devices either as a novice item (look, it's so thin!) either as a more full featured device (hey, you wanted a light sensor, here it is again!).

That's one step back, one step forward actually.

robeddie
Oct 17, 2012, 06:30 AM
Kind of sucks, but I think they have to keep the difference between the iPhone and the iPod touch. The iPod touch 5 has the same screen as the iPhone 5, instead of a non-IPS display in the 4th gen.

Um, the differences are: different processor, different cameras, one is a phone that can use a worldwide cellular system.

So they hardly needed to take out the light sensor to make sure the two products were 'different'. Lol

robeddie
Oct 17, 2012, 06:43 AM
Not really, name a smartphone that's heavier than the 4S that's also a comprable size. Glass and stainless steel are heavy compared to plastic, that's just a fact.

I love my phone though and now the iPod Touch feels really thin and light because of that.

Also, next time I would appreciate capitalization, punctuation and a lack of ad hominem attacks. If I'm to respond to your ignorance then it's the least you could do.

I think you meant to write "...and _how_ the iPod touch feels ..."

Note: pointing out grammatical errors in someone else's post just makes you sound like a pompous *******. Especially when you yourself make a grammitcal error in your response.

Lex Yu
Oct 17, 2012, 06:45 AM
I don't understand how the thickness of the device is an excuse. Make it thicker then. At what point is dropping features so that it can be thinner going to stop.

Edit: By the way that is a flat out lie, the ambient light sensor is a surface mount component no bigger than the capacitors that are already in there.

I don't understand YOU. Who cares the light sensor?

Auto-brightness feature is NOT AS SEXY AS THINNESS !!

As far I know, EVERYONE cares thickness. So, thickness over function-that-no-one-care, huh?

g0odfr1end102
Oct 17, 2012, 07:52 AM
Never got it... Owning an iPhone and an iPod Touch doesn't make much sense to me...

robeddie
Oct 17, 2012, 08:01 AM
Never got it... Owning an iPhone and an iPod Touch doesn't make much sense to me...

Ah dang, and I was just about to buy a new iPod touch to go along with my iPhone 4S. Thanks to your comment, I now realize that wouldn't make sense!

phr0ze
Oct 17, 2012, 08:09 AM
I want the iphone to be that thin too.

If you want it thicker in exchange for a better battery, then buy a damn case with a battery in it.

I hate the auto-dim. Its constantly making bad choices.

And I'm ready to give up the built in headphone jack. bluetooth is a pretty good answer now. And a hardwire adapter through the lightning connector could be an alternate for people who have specific headphone tastes.

pubwvj
Oct 17, 2012, 08:22 AM
I would have preferred that they stay with the same thickness and keep the ALS and increase the battery.

tdream
Oct 17, 2012, 08:25 AM
This is to prepare for the magical illuminated light sensor upgrade next year.

Trik
Oct 17, 2012, 08:29 AM
Personally the ambiant light sensor was not a grand feature, and if in making things smaller it gets lost, that's a choice that Apple had to make. They sat in a room and decided it wasn't important. If that IS something you feel is important, then by all means let them know, and it will come back next time.

Apple is moving in a direction, you think that thinner isn't the answer, but I believe it is the future. Soon we'll expect these devices to be wearable (and hidden), then we'll expect them to be almost invisible. At some point we're going to have flexible paper thin devices that roll up or something, in order to get to that point, we have to continue to make the components thinner.

Tingler
Oct 17, 2012, 08:38 AM
Form over function. But it is okay, you're still great, Phil.

WordMasterRice
Oct 17, 2012, 08:44 AM
I don't understand YOU. Who cares the light sensor?

Auto-brightness feature is NOT AS SEXY AS THINNESS !!

As far I know, EVERYONE cares thickness. So, thickness over function-that-no-one-care, huh?

Somebody needs to lay off the coffee...

Anyway did you miss the part where I explained that the argument about the thickness is a lie anyway.

Finally, no everyone doesn't "cares thickness" the last iPod Touch was uncomfortably thin and light and so is the new one so I wouldn't buy it anyway. Absolutely terrible ergonomics.

PracticalMac
Oct 17, 2012, 09:00 AM
ALS sensor on several years and generations of products, and Apple suddenly decides its not needed??

Sometimes it does dim when I don't want to, but most of time it picks the right level.

-1 Apple.

Drunken Master
Oct 17, 2012, 09:22 AM
I think you meant to write "...and _how_ the iPod touch feels ..."

No, not really.

Note: pointing out grammatical errors in someone else's post just makes you sound like a pompous *******. Especially when you yourself make a grammitcal error in your response.

O rly?

g0odfr1end102
Oct 17, 2012, 10:09 AM
Ah dang, and I was just about to buy a new iPod touch to go along with my iPhone 4S. Thanks to your comment, I now realize that wouldn't make sense!

Glad it "helped" you lol, but why were you about to purchase an iTouch?

kerbero9
Oct 17, 2012, 11:25 AM
Glad it "helped" you lol, but why were you about to purchase an iTouch?

WTH is an iTouch? Is that like an Airbook?

DJJAZZYJET
Oct 17, 2012, 11:32 AM
I find the ambient light sensor to be a useful feature. Maybe they could have built it into the camera or something.

jamesr19
Oct 17, 2012, 11:39 AM
Classic example of making something thinner for no logical reason

iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.

They have dramatically improved battery life compared to the 4. I could get just over a day of use and standby (combined) on a good day on all 3 of my iPhone 4. iPhone 5 I get over 2days of use and standby (combined) on most occasions. Even with heavy use I get a good 1day 14hrs total.

Westside guy
Oct 17, 2012, 11:39 AM
I understand some people like the functionality of the ambient light sensor - but it's pretty much the first thing I disable on any device - whether phone, ipod, or laptop. The constant small shifts in brightness drive me nuts.

Aluminum213
Oct 17, 2012, 11:44 AM
They have dramatically improved battery life compared to the 4. I could get just over a day of use and standby (combined) on a good day on all 3 of my iPhone 4. iPhone 5 I get over 2days of use and standby (combined) on most occasions. Even with heavy use I get a good 1day 14hrs total.

good use? what does that mean? By all reports heavy LTE usage and general usage of the phone will not last more then one day.


again, it's been heavily reported battery performance is the SAME as the 4S, so unless you have super special edition you're just lying

Aspasia
Oct 17, 2012, 12:37 PM
I wonder how many criticizing the lack of the ALS on the iPod touch 5G actually own the device.

I do, and the absence of the light sensor is immaterial to me. The touch 5G is fast, has good battery life, and the camera is a hundred times better than the camera on my iPad 2 (3G).

JoEw
Oct 17, 2012, 01:03 PM
It's not about thinness people it's about weight. That is my favorite thing about the iPhone 5 it's freakin light! hold an iphone 5 with a 4 it feels like a brick..

sososowhat
Oct 17, 2012, 01:16 PM
Classic example of making something thinner for no logical reason

iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.
The iPhone 4 was too thick and heavy. Now you've heard it. Seriously, thickness and weight were among the biggest reasons I upgraded to the 5. So was my broken screen -- which was caused in part because the 4 is 25% heavier than the 5 & so falls with 25% more force when it hits the ground.

iSee
Oct 17, 2012, 01:46 PM
I don't understand how the thickness of the device is an excuse. Make it thicker then...

The problem of your logic is that it doesn't stop at the light sensor.
Why not:
* add a better camera and make it thicker (and more expensive)?
* add stereo speakers (and lounder) and make it thicker (and more expensive)?
* add an option for 128GB capacity and make it thicker (and more expensive)?
* add NFC and make it thicker (and more expensive)?
* add cell network capability and make it thicker (and more expensive)?
etc.

They have to make choices and balance tradeoffs or the thing would be the size of a brick and cost $1000.

You can argue any one or two features, but not the overall philosophy

jmpnop
Oct 17, 2012, 01:47 PM
I wonder how many criticizing the lack of the ALS on the iPod touch 5G actually own the device.

I do, and the absence of the light sensor is immaterial to me. The touch 5G is fast, has good battery life, and the camera is a hundred times better than the camera on my iPad 2 (3G).

Light sensor might not be a big deal but Apple's obsession with thinness to the level of form over functionality is crazy. They could put a bigger battery and some other stuff instead of making an already thin device thinner.

radio893fm
Oct 17, 2012, 02:35 PM
Don't be ridiculous. Before they did that - they would create a new proprietary connector (like lightening) rendering every single wired headset useless so you had to buy their headphones. Now they might license the tech to a select few - but not for several months.

And oh yeah - the new headsets wouldn't come with the iDevice - it would be sold separately. Also available would be an adapter IF you wanted to use regular headphones

Wasn't the first iPhone not fully compatible with all the headphones? I remember having to buy an extender or something like that.

Tiger8
Oct 17, 2012, 02:43 PM
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...

I think you're reading too much into it.

Steve has always said something like that... hello! how about 'it is magical!'

And companies, especially Apple, seem to draw so much passion for their products, even blinding them to their flaws (such as maps).

george-brooks
Oct 17, 2012, 02:58 PM
Classic example of making something thinner for no logical reason

iPhone 5 is thinner then the 4 but if they retained the thickness they could have dramatically improved battery life. I have never met or heard someone say the iPhone 4 was too thick or heavy.

One of those problems you realize you don't even have until there is a solution to it. I didn't think the 4S was too heavy either until I held the iPhone 5, and I was blown away by how light it was. It almost felt cheap. But after using it for a while I'm actually really glad its so much lighter. Thinner, I don't really care. And as an added bonus, my iPhone 5 actually does get more than twice the battery life than my 4S did.

tevion5
Oct 17, 2012, 04:47 PM
I hate it how these days, the high profile Apple employees try to persuade you how good things are (I'm mainly talking about Schiller, Forstall and Cook here).

"It is a remarkable device!"

"Maps are SO beautiful"

"It's just gorgeous"

"We absolutely love this at Apple, absolutely LOVE it"

It just looks desperate?

Steve would have just gone "here it is, it's so cool", end of. Then of course, we would have opened our lovely new Apple gadgets and thought "yeah, this is pretty cool!".

But now it seems that the recent decline in quality of some Apple products (Maps, lack of light sensor on new Touches, no groundbreaking new features in iOS 6 that work properly) has resulted in the top dogs getting desperate, and trying to persuade us that Apple products are really cool rather than just showing us how cool they are. I just think it comes across desperate, and isn't smooth like Steve was.

Just my thoughts...

I totally agree with you to some extent, jobs was great. But what can they say?

"Yeah that sucks dosent it? Better stick with the 4g, or hey get a Samsung! I hear they're pretty cool nowadays!" Love Tim.

They're just giving a standard PR infused response to a customer, they have to sell it a little.

uknowimright
Oct 17, 2012, 04:54 PM
Wasn't the first iPhone not fully compatible with all the headphones? I remember having to buy an extender or something like that.

yes, the headphone port was recessed

PracticalMac
Oct 17, 2012, 05:56 PM
Come to think of it, I will call BULL SHAT to this "too thin" excuse. :mad:

AzN1337c0d3r
Oct 18, 2012, 01:38 AM
This is the size of the typical ambient light sensor. Note that this is the planar view of the device. The thickness profile of this particular ALS is 1.05mm.

https://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/images/products/8/3/4/8/08348-3_i_ma.jpg

There is no way the iPod Touch is too thin for this.

princigalli
Oct 18, 2012, 02:10 AM
Nobody uses the light sensor, people turn it off anyway. It was a nice thing to show of in 1998, people would clap their hands in amazement, it was an achievement in AI technology coupled with expensive light sensors. Now it's a feature as desirable as those car alarms that used to go off with video game noises.

It was a good thing to remove this useless feature.

Dagless
Oct 18, 2012, 02:51 AM
Nobody uses the light sensor, people turn it off anyway. It was a nice thing to show of in 1998, people would clap their hands in amazement, it was an achievement in AI technology coupled with expensive light sensors. Now it's a feature as desirable as those car alarms that used to go off with video game noises.

It was a good thing to remove this useless feature.

Huh, I've always used it. I've never touched the brightness dial of my iPhone or iPod and I use it in the morning in a pitch black room and in the midday sun. Works perfectly.

burtx
Oct 18, 2012, 04:07 AM
The guy already has an iPhone. What's he doing with a touch anyway? hmm

princigalli
Oct 18, 2012, 06:27 AM
Huh, I've always used it. I've never touched the brightness dial of my iPhone or iPod and I use it in the morning in a pitch black room and in the midday sun. Works perfectly.

OK in this case I was wrong. I find that it changes brightness too quickly sometimes, that's why I like to have manual control

Truffy
Oct 18, 2012, 06:42 AM
The OP refers to the Touch 5, so I'm not sure what's the relevance of the references to the iPhone 5. :confused:

somethingelsefl
Oct 18, 2012, 10:38 AM
I wonder if one day they'll remove the 3.5" audio jack to make iDevices thinner.

No problem, just use our AirPods™ Bluetooth headphones!

This is one of those posts that we LOL at now...but later on when we go back and read your post after Apple actually does this it will be a lot less funny. I can actually see Apple making AirPods...haha...so bad.

----------

I've been looking into purchasing this generation iPod touch since the rumors a while back.

But now...with no GPS, no Ambient Light sensor, hideous colors, and no change in pricing, no EarPods with remote...I'm strongly reconsidering. What a disappointment.

BAD APPLE

AnonMac50
Oct 18, 2012, 12:36 PM
I wonder why they don't use the Front facing camera as a light sensor, like they currently do on the MacBooks ? :confused:

I am sure there has to be a way for them to activate only a couple photo cells to monitor light levels and such.

The sensor isn't IN the camera, it's right next to. One side has the green dot, the other has the camera.

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"it's just too thin!"

I see some memes coming :D

I was about to type that when I read your post :D

AnonMac50
Oct 18, 2012, 12:49 PM
Wasn't the first iPhone not fully compatible with all the headphones? I remember having to buy an extender or something like that.

That was only because the port sat flush in the case, so something with a slightly thick cover around the jack wouldn't fit.

840quadra
Oct 18, 2012, 02:39 PM
The sensor isn't IN the camera, it's right next to. One side has the green dot, the other has the camera.

I am aware of this, please see the dialogue that took place prior to your reply.

They don't use the camera. The MacBooks, iMacs, etc have an ALS sensor. Opposite the camera light.

Thanks for that, I have one of the first unibody models, and I never noticed that :) . Have to look super close to even see it. :eek:

roadie.f
Oct 18, 2012, 03:18 PM
No big loss IMO, the light sensor drives me crazy.

It's no big loss to you, but a big huge loss for many other people, the ALS is one of the things that make my iPhone useable, so if I'm a buyer of an iPod, this would be a dealbreaker.

dacz
Oct 19, 2012, 08:15 AM
They say the sensor has been left out because there is not enough room for it, but they found room for the silly "apple loop" plug that is like 10 times the size of such sensor.

Phil, Phil... Really? -.-'


I totally agree with you. I mean seriously!! They managed to put in a camera that sticks out, might as well put a sensor that sticks out too on the other side so it can at least offset the wobbling! :)

rolledm
Oct 20, 2012, 06:37 AM
This would never have happened if Steve Jobs were alive. This points to the general decline of Apple and Tim Cook’s lack of concern over product specs. Time for another Apple stock downgrade. I’m sure millions of iPod Touch users are up in arms for spending $299 and getting less functionality than last year’s model Touch

IGregory
Oct 20, 2012, 09:26 AM
what purpose does a light sensor serve anyway? I don't own an IPod so I am curious. Maybe Apple calculated that thinnest was more important than the reason for a light sensor.

AnonMac50
Oct 21, 2012, 06:00 AM
what purpose does a light sensor serve anyway? I don't own an IPod so I am curious. Maybe Apple calculated that thinnest was more important than the reason for a light sensor.

It automatically sets the brightness of the screen based on the amount of light in the environment.

IGregory
Oct 21, 2012, 07:42 AM
It automatically sets the brightness of the screen based on the amount of light in the environment.

Okay, thanks.

jamesr19
Oct 22, 2012, 12:07 PM
good use? what does that mean? By all reports heavy LTE usage and general usage of the phone will not last more then one day.


again, it's been heavily reported battery performance is the SAME as the 4S, so unless you have super special edition you're just lying

Sorry, in UK so we don't have 4G...yet.

My use is listening to some music, SSHing into web servers, text & iMessage and a small number of calls. 50% of day it's on 3G, 50% wifi. Battery life does fluctuate and it seems to last longer when I charge from <10% to full.

iThat
Oct 26, 2012, 09:10 AM
This is the one and only reason i will not be buying the 5th gen ipod touch or the 6th gen ipod touch for that matter if it also lacks a light sensor.
I'm sure even with the thinness of the device apple could have found a way to incorporate one into the IPT.
As a matter of fact I think there should have been more than one light sensor.
One on either side of the device.

Even tho this might be a feature that I "turn off" (to save resources or whatever) It's still a feature i want to have there and to use when i'm not using other apps that might not be necessary at that point in time.

The sensors available now are so small and take up such a inconspicuous amount of space this was a unbelievable blunder by apple.

For those of you who where not able to catch this lacking function in time I would suggest looking at the ".flux" project. It is not just for windows and linux any longer.
The .Flux app changes the ambiance of the screen based on the time of the day. The app will also have more features in the future. Not only changing light ambiance based on time of day but also surrounding weather conditions based on your current location as well combined.


EDIT:

That all being said, i wonder if the functionality could be re-added using both front and back cameras with THEIR incorporated sensors along with other data such as time of day and weather etc..
It wouldn't be worth going through the trouble if the camera hardware wasn't able to be used in my mind anyways.
hrm.....


EDIT II:
This is the main reason i believe my old 3GS with old bootrom and 4s are still superior to any iphone out even the iphone 5. Just the feel of the devices blow away all the rest.
Someone also mentioned that the iPhone 5's sensor is not as good as the iphone 4/4s. Is this true ?