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Rogifan
Oct 21, 2012, 12:55 AM
Glad I have zero reason to upgrade. Windows 7 suits me just fine. :)

Early look at Windows 8 baffles consumers (http://lubbockonline.com/technology/2012-10-21/early-look-windows-8-baffles-consumers#)



MacRumorUser
Oct 21, 2012, 02:17 AM
“On a desktop, it just felt really weird,” he said. “It feels like it’s a tablet operating system that Microsoft managed to twist and shoehorn onto a desktop.”

Which is how I feel and I've been using it a good while and have yet to shake that feeling yet.

I'm wondering if hardware manufacturers are getting really behind Windows 8 on the hope it causes a mad rush for new hardware sales at retail (touchscreen monitors/laptops/tablets) rather than just sticking the OS on conventional hardware.

ChrisTX
Oct 21, 2012, 08:30 AM
Which is how I feel and I've been using it a good while and have yet to shake that feeling yet.

I'm wondering if hardware manufacturers are getting really behind Windows 8 on the hope it causes a mad rush for new hardware sales at retail (touchscreen monitors/laptops/tablets) rather than just sticking the OS on conventional hardware.

Not sure if it will spur the sales of new touchscreen items. However a lot of these OEMS depend on Microsoft for a majority of their revenue. Dell, HP, ASUS, Acer, Lenovo, etc...All rely on Microsoft for Windows PC. I think it's a bad idea that MS is basically forcing everyone to use a tablet OS. My fear is that Apple, and now MS are forcing all of the pro users out of the market in lieu of the consumers. I'm an iPad, and a MacBook Pro user so I believe there's definitely room for both, and not just one or the other. Interested to see how this transition works for MS.

Technarchy
Oct 21, 2012, 08:33 AM
My next PC will be a Mac Mini most likely.

I like Windows Phone, and think RT looks solid, but Windows 8 PC does not look intuitive at all.

I'm willing to try it, but turning a desktop machine into a psuedo tablet interface just doesn't make sense to me.

ChrisTX
Oct 21, 2012, 11:24 AM
My next PC will be a Mac Mini most likely.

I like Windows Phone, and think RT looks solid, but Windows 8 PC does not look intuitive at all.

I'm willing to try it, but turning a desktop machine into a psuedo tablet interface just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm assuming Microsoft gives the option to revert back to a standard desktop interface? Pro users, and people in business certainly can't "make do" with a touch only interface 100% of the time.

laserfox
Oct 21, 2012, 11:30 AM
It works fine on the older desktop/laptop systems. However I urge users to go to Best buy now and play with the Lenovo Yoga and get a feel for Windows 8 shines on the right hardware.

ozaz
Oct 21, 2012, 12:10 PM
Early look at Windows 8 baffles consumers (http://lubbockonline.com/technology/2012-10-21/early-look-windows-8-baffles-consumers#)

dlZgcAacIxU

identity
Oct 21, 2012, 12:15 PM
I'm assuming Microsoft gives the option to revert back to a standard desktop interface? Pro users, and people in business certainly can't "make do" with a touch only interface 100% of the time.

People are just parroting other people. All you have to do is click on the desktop tile or hit win + D and you're back on the desktop. Most people hate it because they're lazy and don't want to do one extra click to get on the desktop.

People are just too damn stubborn and can't adjust to any change. There is no progress if people don't want to change.

Edit - Also the majority of consumers are idiots. These are the same consumers who can't distinguish between a Samsung tablet and an iPad, even though the box they bought clearly stated it was made from Samsung, not Apple.

Carouser
Oct 21, 2012, 12:27 PM
People are just parroting other people. All you have to do is click on the desktop tile or hit win + D and you're back on the desktop. Most people hate it because they're lazy and don't want to do one extra click to get on the desktop.

People are just too damn stubborn and can't adjust to any change. There is no progress if people don't want to change.

Edit - Also the majority of consumers are idiots. These are the same consumers who can't distinguish between a Samsung tablet and an iPad, even though the box they bought clearly stated it was made from Samsung, not Apple.

Ah, the 'blame the user' theory of interface design.

People hate it not because they're lazy (lol, huffing and puffing over an extra click), it's because it's unnecessary and gets in the way.

You can have all kinds of progress without expecting the user to shed old conventions for no good reason (or for bad or weak reasons).

Even if change is generally required for progress, not every change amounts to progress.

ChrisTX
Oct 21, 2012, 12:41 PM
People are just parroting other people. All you have to do is click on the desktop tile or hit win + D and you're back on the desktop. Most people hate it because they're lazy and don't want to do one extra click to get on the desktop.

People are just too damn stubborn and can't adjust to any change. There is no progress if people don't want to change.

Edit - Also the majority of consumers are idiots. These are the same consumers who can't distinguish between a Samsung tablet and an iPad, even though the box they bought clearly stated it was made from Samsung, not Apple.

I agree, though I was basing my opinion on things Paul Allen said though I've yet to actually use Windows 8.
http://www.dailytech.com/Paul+Allen+Calls+Windows+8+Puzzling+and+Confusing+Initially/article27837.htm

Black Magic
Oct 21, 2012, 12:43 PM
People are just parroting other people. All you have to do is click on the desktop tile or hit win + D and you're back on the desktop. Most people hate it because they're lazy and don't want to do one extra click to get on the desktop.

People are just too damn stubborn and can't adjust to any change. There is no progress if people don't want to change.

Edit - Also the majority of consumers are idiots. These are the same consumers who can't distinguish between a Samsung tablet and an iPad, even though the box they bought clearly stated it was made from Samsung, not Apple.

Another pretentious poster thinking they know everything and that everyone else is stupid. It's hilarious how many folks get so attached to a BRAND yet the same BRAND is not attached to them. How does it feel to be an unpaid cheerleader pretentious poster?

If people don't like Windows 8 for whatever reason, get over it. It's all subjective.

ozaz
Oct 21, 2012, 12:57 PM
I'm assuming Microsoft gives the option to revert back to a standard desktop interface? Pro users, and people in business certainly can't "make do" with a touch only interface 100% of the time.

As mentioned, there are ways to switch between desktop and the modern UI. But if you want to bypass the new style start screen entirely, there will be, and already are, several 3rd party tweaks to do this. This is the one I would suugest because the developer is well known for making good Windows interface modification applications:
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

EDIT: Also, Modern UI (Metro) is not touch only.

DeathChill
Oct 21, 2012, 01:06 PM
YouTube: video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=dlZgcAacIxU)

Not that I don't find this video adorable, but I'm not sure that it's really all that helpful. His father has clearly taught him how to do all these things and obviously already knows how to use it.

Compare that to my iPad and iPhone where both my daughters picked them up on their own and began using them without me showing them anything.

EDIT: Also, I'm not knocking MS. I think it's very awesome that they're willing to try something completely new. The same goes for Windows Phone.

identity
Oct 21, 2012, 02:12 PM
Another pretentious poster thinking they know everything and that everyone else is stupid. It's hilarious how many folks get so attached to a BRAND yet the same BRAND is not attached to them. How does it feel to be an unpaid cheerleader pretentious poster?

If people don't like Windows 8 for whatever reason, get over it. It's all subjective.

Apple themselves have called people idiots and that's why they pulled those new Apple commercials off the air so fast. But don't let that stop you from doing what you're doing....

Sylon
Oct 21, 2012, 02:23 PM
I personally liked Windows 8 when I had it bootcamped on my Macbook Pro. I no longer have it installed on there, but I've been debating putting it onto my PC laptop.

MacRumorUser
Oct 21, 2012, 03:13 PM
I'm assuming Microsoft gives the option to revert back to a standard desktop interface? Pro users, and people in business certainly can't "make do" with a touch only interface 100% of the time.

No they don't currently do this. In fact it has had the traditional start style menu removed completely at the moment.

There are third party workarounds, but I doubt corporate and office environments are going to be happy relying on a third party unsupported hack to make the OS look traditional.

ChrisTX
Oct 21, 2012, 03:22 PM
No they don't currently do this. In fact it has had the traditional start style menu removed completely at the moment.

There are third party workarounds, but I doubt corporate and office environments are going to be happy relying on a third party unsupported hack to make the OS look traditional.

OUCH, not sure that this will go over well with the enterprise. Not even sure if the gamers, and everyone else will be extremely happy either. Not everyone is happy using a tablet as their only source of a PC.

MacRumorUser
Oct 21, 2012, 03:27 PM
OUCH, not sure that this will go over well with the enterprise. Not even sure if the gamers, and everyone else will be extremely happy either. Not everyone is happy using a tablet as their only source of a PC.

Well you don't have to use a tablet, but of course the metro part of the OS feels more natural with one.... It's when it switches to desktop environment that touch suddenly feels out of place. It's a strange dichotomy of Windows 8.

Half is perfect for touch
Half is perfect for traditional mouse / touchpad etc..

Together they feel like a schizophrenic OS. In that way Windows RT benefits by not having a proper desktop environment.

Mr Bigs
Oct 21, 2012, 03:30 PM
Another pretentious poster thinking they know everything and that everyone else is stupid. It's hilarious how many folks get so attached to a BRAND yet the same BRAND is not attached to them. How does it feel to be an unpaid cheerleader pretentious poster?

If people don't like Windows 8 for whatever reason, get over it. It's all subjective.

He's right though.

TennisandMusic
Oct 21, 2012, 03:35 PM
Not that I don't find this video adorable, but I'm not sure that it's really all that helpful. His father has clearly taught him how to do all these things and obviously already knows how to use it.

Compare that to my iPad and iPhone where both my daughters picked them up on their own and began using them without me showing them anything.

EDIT: Also, I'm not knocking MS. I think it's very awesome that they're willing to try something completely new. The same goes for Windows Phone.

Baloney, your daughters knew how to do the four finger pinch to get back to the home screen, four finger swipe up to reveal the multi task tray, and four finger swipe left and right to switch apps?

Some things have to be taught. iPad usage included. Big deal. Windows 8 is incredibly easy and straight forward to use. To suggest that this video is somehow disingenuous because it is Windows software is itself, completely disingenuous.

The hubbub over Windows 8 is indeed just a bunch of slow and stupid people complaining about having to learn something new. The young and open-minded will adapt quickly and get on with making things. The people who relentlessly complain will just end up looking foolish.

Renzatic
Oct 21, 2012, 03:51 PM
Ah, the 'blame the user' theory of interface design.

It's not so much blaming the user as calling people out for making a huge deal out of an incredibly small one.

YOU MEAN IT TAKES ME TO THE LAUNCHER INSTEAD OF THE DESKTOP! THAT MEANS I HAVE TO TAKE AN EXTRA MOUSE CLICK TO GET THERE? OH MY GOD IT'S RUINED FOREVER THIS IS NOT AN OS SUITED FOR A MOUSE!

...oh, well while I'm here, I might as well launch explorer. Oh hey, it took me right to explorer on the desktop. Who would've thunk.

It's not like the desktop as any different than it was before (sans start button), and it's not like going to the start screen suddenly requires you to drop your mouse and start stabbing at icons with you finger to select them. All things considered, it's a fairly minor difference.

In fact, you don't launch any metro apps, and Windows 8 isn't much different from Windows 7. You don't have to deal with the metro style resizing or anything.

Nishi100
Oct 21, 2012, 03:59 PM
I like the new task manager and the graph that it shows whilst copying...

SlCKB0Y
Oct 21, 2012, 05:13 PM
Ah, the 'blame the user' theory of interface design.

People hate it not because they're lazy (lol, huffing and puffing over an extra click), it's because it's unnecessary and gets in the way.

You can have all kinds of progress without expecting the user to shed old conventions for no good reason (or for bad or weak reasons).


Wow...a post on these forums where it sounds like the poster has first-hand experience with the topic at hand to back up their comments! :p

This is 100% correct. Designers have been attempting to blame end users for issues in their designs for as long as the GUI has been around.


Even if change is generally required for progress, not every change amounts to progress.

This is my problem with Windows 8. It feels like change only for the sake of change with very little progress actually being made.

It's also laughable when technically competent people start telling me reasons why a completely non-technical user won't have issues.

Renzatic
Oct 21, 2012, 07:12 PM
Ah, the 'blame the user' theory of interface design.

People hate it not because they're lazy (lol, huffing and puffing over an extra click), it's because it's unnecessary and gets in the way.

You can have all kinds of progress without expecting the user to shed old conventions for no good reason (or for bad or weak reasons).

Even if change is generally required for progress, not every change amounts to progress.

I'm gonna double reply to you to show how big of a non issue this is.

See, it only takes you to the start menu instead of the desktop when you first boot up your computer. How often do you reboot your computer? I dunno about you, but I'd say I restart about, maybe, once a month. Resuming from sleep or hibernation takes you back to where you last were before it went to sleep. That's usually the desktop.

So, around once a month you have to do this.

Boot up...

wait a sec...

Okay, here I am.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/start_1.jpg

I wanna get on my desktop and open Photoshop. Okay, so I have to click the desktop tile...

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/start_2.jpg

...which takes me to my desktop, then go allllll the way down here to open PS.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/Start_3.jpg

That's horrible design! One extra click! No wonder MS is a dying company!

Or wait...

I could just click right here...

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/Start_4.jpg

...and do the exact same thing with one less click! WELL HOLY HELL! THAT'S WONDERFUL!

See, why do you need to go to the desktop right away for? What does the desktop do by itself that's so damn important? Usually the first thing you do after booting up is launch an application, right?

...which you can do from the new start screen.

And that's why all this bitching, whining, moaning, and groaning is so utterly totally and completely useless and stupid. It is literally people acting like it's the end of everything they know and love simply because something isn't 100% exactly the same as it was before.

Sacird
Oct 21, 2012, 07:58 PM
I'll try to be as non combative as possible here. Remember this is my personal experience with Windows 8 and if you like the OS then that is cool and I have no issues with you liking it.

I watched numerous videos of it and it caught my interest and made me look it over a few times with a "I got to try this" attitude. I did not DL'ed it I demo'ed it so I can not say for 100% certainly I couldn't adjust to it, but from the videos to my demo of it I couldn't stand it. I know what I do on an OS so I really don't need very long to decide whether it would suit me or not. I can tell very quickly.

First thing, it really feels like 2 OS's on top of one another. I can get to the desktop easy no problem but then when I get thrown into metro land it is always jarring, that may subside with extended use but I find it non user friendly for me. Going into metro I open some apps that reside there, as some still reside on the desktop on the same session.

This creates a back and forth that OSX and previous versions of Windows I never had to deal with, the ride was smoother with the previous OS's I have used. Even briefly using Ubuntu (even less than win8) I was moving around no problem. Desktop feels at home obviously, no quarrels there, besides they made it uglier with the minimize + maximize buttons looking dull now and the blank hole where the start menu used to be. Sorry but MS does have a habit of making stuff that looks gross. Seattle Seahawks colors are not good looking to anyone outside of Seattle MS :p If you have used Windows you have seen these colors.

Leaves me to an issue as to why not just have the windows logo there anyway? It puts you at the new start screen, and I find it stupid I have to go the extreme corner to pull it up. Hitting the Apple pipe for bizarre things I guess. The top left brings up the multitasking kind of, you got to do an L or U type shape when you hit the corner and that's just strange even with a finger.

Charms bar on the far right on a few machines seemed like it didn't want to come up unless I tried a few times. This could have been the machines though, as Windows machines have usually had piss poor trackpads, which may be a huge problem for 8 to kick off with.

Honestly that is enough for me to find it irritating, I dont want to have the feeling of using 2 OS's on top of each other at all. I simply do not like it for my use. Some people like the drive others do not, for me it's bumpy and irritating. It reminds me of when metro came to the XBOX, everyone on my friends list dislikes that dashboard style including myself, I can not see custom backgrounds I paid for at all, a few things are a pain to navigate. And the freaking ADS, ADS, ADS!!! ugh!! LOL

Yup so my first taste was actually a few months with the XBOX and disliked metro then and dislike it now, will dislike it years from now more than likely. Windows is just like Android though, they get share by the sheer # of devices they get shoved on, not by popular vote. It's what it there and presented to the casual consumer, so I hope the users adjust to it well and it works nicely for them.

Side not: I notice the best buy site and under Windows machines (laptops) they had like over 1000 listings. Calm the heck down OEMs, Calm down......

I found the speed of the OS to be quite good. And some of the apps inside metro look good, really good. Live tiles are meh to me though, it's really large icons, you usually have to click to see any info anyway. It's different I give them that.

Honestly guys I was giving my opinion. A flame-suit should not be needed here. Just my thoughts on it.

Rogifan
Oct 21, 2012, 08:04 PM
Good lord that metro UI (or whatever they're calling it now) looks gawd awful. Why is everyone obsessed with busy cluttered screens. The first thing I'd do is hide everything on the desktop and only show whatever wallpaper I chose. Then access all of my apps or shortcuts either via start menu or task bar.

Irishman
Oct 22, 2012, 06:59 AM
People are just parroting other people. All you have to do is click on the desktop tile or hit win + D and you're back on the desktop. Most people hate it because they're lazy and don't want to do one extra click to get on the desktop.

People are just too damn stubborn and can't adjust to any change. There is no progress if people don't want to change.

Edit - Also the majority of consumers are idiots. These are the same consumers who can't distinguish between a Samsung tablet and an iPad, even though the box they bought clearly stated it was made from Samsung, not Apple.

Way to go! Blame the tablet-buying public for not seeing how great Windows 8 is.

That's always a winning combination - an overly inflated sense of superiority and disdain for others!

Black Magic
Oct 23, 2012, 09:34 AM
It's not so much blaming the user as calling people out for making a huge deal out of an incredibly small one.

YOU MEAN IT TAKES ME TO THE LAUNCHER INSTEAD OF THE DESKTOP! THAT MEANS I HAVE TO TAKE AN EXTRA MOUSE CLICK TO GET THERE? OH MY GOD IT'S RUINED FOREVER THIS IS NOT AN OS SUITED FOR A MOUSE!

...oh, well while I'm here, I might as well launch explorer. Oh hey, it took me right to explorer on the desktop. Who would've thunk.

It's not like the desktop as any different than it was before (sans start button), and it's not like going to the start screen suddenly requires you to drop your mouse and start stabbing at icons with you finger to select them. All things considered, it's a fairly minor difference.

In fact, you don't launch any metro apps, and Windows 8 isn't much different from Windows 7. You don't have to deal with the metro style resizing or anything.


You are a pretentious poster. You stand up bashing anyone that doesn't like Windows 8. You call people LAZY when people are pointing out inefficient design by adding unnecessary steps. You like it and that's cool. Many other don't and it WILL be a failed OS with zero traction in the enterprise market.

Either you work for Microsoft or you invest in Microsoft but at the end of the day you should dial down your rhetoric.

wallpaper01
Oct 23, 2012, 10:13 AM
Did not like it at first but forced it to be main main OS. Find it fine now, just like anything.

I never used keyboard shortcuts before but now I am, so actually I'm getting around the OS quicker than I was in Windows 7.

People are just afraid of change, change is good! There are a few UI issues but I'm sure they will get sorted out with upgrades.

Think the kids will be ok with this, older users may struggle with the change.

I am a computer programmer/DBA and I could quite happily use this in a production environment, after I have sorted out my layout/shortcuts etc...

Have to say on a tablet this os looks epic, I expect it to do very well.

Six8
Oct 23, 2012, 10:21 AM
I was baffled for sure

wallpaper01
Oct 23, 2012, 10:24 AM
I'm gonna double reply to you to show how big of a non issue this is.

See, it only takes you to the start menu instead of the desktop when you first boot up your computer. How often do you reboot your computer? I dunno about you, but I'd say I restart about, maybe, once a month. Resuming from sleep or hibernation takes you back to where you last were before it went to sleep. That's usually the desktop.

So, around once a month you have to do this.

Boot up...

wait a sec...

Okay, here I am.

Image (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/start_1.jpg)

I wanna get on my desktop and open Photoshop. Okay, so I have to click the desktop tile...

Image (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/start_2.jpg)

...which takes me to my desktop, then go allllll the way down here to open PS.

Image (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/Start_3.jpg)

That's horrible design! One extra click! No wonder MS is a dying company!

Or wait...

I could just click right here...

Image (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/Start_4.jpg)

...and do the exact same thing with one less click! WELL HOLY HELL! THAT'S WONDERFUL!

See, why do you need to go to the desktop right away for? What does the desktop do by itself that's so damn important? Usually the first thing you do after booting up is launch an application, right?

...which you can do from the new start screen.

And that's why all this bitching, whining, moaning, and groaning is so utterly totally and completely useless and stupid. It is literally people acting like it's the end of everything they know and love simply because something isn't 100% exactly the same as it was before.

I see your point about this and your correct, actually Microsoft has eliminated the double click with metro shortcuts so 'technically' you are using 50% less effort than in Windows 7.

Also you can hit the Windows key to go back to metro (1 click) and open another app (1 click). (so 2 clicks).

In Windows 7 you would need to minimise the window to see the desktop (1 click) then double click (2 clicks) to open another program (so 3 clicks).

Windows 8 IS actually simpler, its the fact that metro opens over everything will confuse and irritate people (me included at first).

If this was a brand new OS people would be fine, but because its such a radical change its confusing. Metro is basically just a full screen start menu with extra functionality.

Hope I made all this clear, I wanted to dislike at 1st but being rational and with constant use its actually pretty damn good.

Renzatic
Oct 23, 2012, 02:14 PM
You are a pretentious poster. You stand up bashing anyone that doesn't like Windows 8. You call people LAZY when people are pointing out inefficient design by adding unnecessary steps. You like it and that's cool. Many other don't and it WILL be a failed OS with zero traction in the enterprise market.

Either you work for Microsoft or you invest in Microsoft but at the end of the day you should dial down your rhetoric.

I never called anyone lazy. I said they were being overly dramatic, and the flaws people keep pointing out aren't flaws at all, rather a very slightly different way to do the same thing. No unnecessary steps, doesn't take any longer, not inefficient. It's just regeared for the up and coming tablet/PC hybridization MS is gunning for.

Course I can't defend it against opinion and taste. Like the guy who said he doesn't like switching from the desktop to the full screen start just to launch or search for something. I can't argue that. If you don't like something, you don't like something. But that's personal preference. What I'm arguing against is the hyperbole.

And I wouldn't call myself pretentious. I'm more an occasionally acerbic smartass if anything. :P