Apple has officially gone downhill

There's a big difference between a 7.9" 4x3 display and a 7" 16x9 display. I don't know why they didn't just call it an 8" display.

Also, as for the Retina MacBook Pro, my only qualm is that they still insist on $300 more for the 256GB SSD. SSD prices are down to $1/GB now. Even with Apple's premiums, they could have made the upgraded version $1899.

this update is really disappointing, they basically re-boxed machines they already had on sale

surjavarman said:

Take away the hi-res display of the rmbp13 and you got something that more expensive, larger, heavier and less performance than the MBA13 (rmbp15 is already struggling at times). How is this a good product?

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More expensive, yes. Larger, yes. Heavier, yes. Less performance, no. Its CPU has a higher clock frequency. Can't forget being able to power 3 displays too (the MBA can't do that), so that's pretty useful. If you don't like it, then don't buy it, silly goose.

so it's 'official'..? thanx for letting us know...

i am a candidate for the new 13"; carrying one around all day in a backpack in nyc? weight sounds perfect. and i don't need an optical drive. i think the 15" is gorgeous; the 13" might be just what i want.

i don't need an ipad, mini or not. but for anyone who lives in apple's ecosystem, it's a great alternative to a 7" android tablet.

KPOM said:

There's a big difference between a 7.9" 4x3 display and a 7" 16x9 display. I don't know why they didn't just call it an 8" display.

Also, as for the Retina MacBook Pro, my only qualm is that they still insist on $300 more for the 256GB SSD. SSD prices are down to $1/GB now. Even with Apple's premiums, they could have made the upgraded version $1899.

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they are ripping off customers left and right... so disappointing! Next thing they are going to sell us will be just "Air" for a premium of course!

surjavarman said:

Thats it. Apple has officially gone downhill.

Take away the hi-res display of the rmbp13 and you got something that more expensive, larger, heavier and less performance than the MBA13 (rmbp15 is already struggling at times). How is this a good product?

Then the ipad mini. Are you kidding me? You need to sandpaper your fingers to use that thing. Its doa, more expensive than the nexus 7 and with less specs.

Apple are really trying to extract as much $$ from their customers as people while they still popular. What happened to Steve Jobs philosophy.

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I hate to be one of those guys, but I do have those Scully years fears creeping in. I have a lot to say, but this guy sums it up as well as I can...

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2012/20121023_1-MacBookPro-Retina-13.html

Plus a non-upgradeable small iMac, soldered ram, overpriced "fusion" and ssd, and its not a pretty picture. I'm going to snag a second hand Mac Pro near the announcement for whatever they do with that thing just to lock in a good nearterm future

KylePowers said:

More expensive, yes. Larger, yes. Heavier, yes. Less performance, no. Its CPU has a higher clock frequency. Can't forget being able to power 3 displays too (the MBA can't do that), so that's pretty useful. If you don't like it, then don't buy it, silly goose.

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The air can do 2x thunderbolt + its own display. (Actually it can also do 1x thunderbolt and 1x display port so long as you have a thunderbolt ext-drive between the two)

If the 13" rMBP is doing 2x thunderbolt, 1x hdmi and its own its going to have a lot of problems doing so. The 15" has to switch to the dedicated GPU when powering just 2 screens, and given the 13" doesnt have that option, it's going to be a very hard task for it.

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fisherking said:

so it's 'official'..? thanx for letting us know...

i am a candidate for the new 13"; carrying one around all day in a backpack in nyc? weight sounds perfect. and i don't need an optical drive. i think the 15" is gorgeous; the 13" might be just what i want.

i don't need an ipad, mini or not. but for anyone who lives in apple's ecosystem, it's a great alternative to a 7" android tablet.

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But still almost double the price of the competition's 7" tablet

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KPOM said:

I don't know why they didn't just call it an 8" display.

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Because that would be false advertising.

CASLondon said:

I hate to be one of those guys, but I do have those Scully years fears creeping in. I have a lot to say, but this guy sums it up as well as I can...

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2012/20121023_1-MacBookPro-Retina-13.html

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The difference is DigiLloyd is a hard core photographer and editor. He has a Mac Pro with 64GB and complains that the quad-core 15" with 16GB is too slow at times. As for history, remember it wasn't so much Sculley as it was Spindler and Amelio who really screwed up Apple. Sculley's biggest mistake was granting Microsoft an open-ended license. Apple hasn't made that mistake again.

KPOM said:

The difference is DigiLloyd is a hard core photographer and editor. He has a Mac Pro with 64GB and complains that the quad-core 15" with 16GB is too slow at times. As for history, remember it wasn't so much Sculley as it was Spindler and Amelio who really screwed up Apple. Sculley's biggest mistake was granting Microsoft an open-ended license. Apple hasn't made that mistake again.

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Yes, Digilloyd is a photographer, but that's the point of the "pro" moniker.

There are lots and lots of people running Adobe CS5-6. They should think hard about this machine.

I'm a video/film guy, and I have a load of friends who are freelance photographers who might be a target market for these machines for fieldwork - the small form factor is attractive in that sense, but the limits mean they shouldn't do it.

As for the Scully years, its just shorthand for an aggressive monetizing effort with uncertain future roadmap for users

rmwebs said:

The air can do 2x thunderbolt + its own display. (Actually it can also do 1x thunderbolt and 1x display port so long as you have a thunderbolt ext-drive between the two)

If the 13" rMBP is doing 2x thunderbolt, 1x hdmi and its own its going to have a lot of problems doing so. The 15" has to switch to the dedicated GPU when powering just 2 screens, and given the 13" doesnt have that option, it's going to be a very hard task for it.

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Proof? Here's what it says on the website about the MBA:

Dual display and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display and up to 2560 by 1600 pixels on an external display, both at millions of colors

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Here's what it says about the rMBP:

Dual display and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display and up to 2560 by 1600 pixels on up to two external displays, at millions of colors

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I'm not sure where you're getting the MBA can do 2x Thunderbolt + display when it only has one Thunderbolt port. And when you can't daisy chain Thunderbolt displays with the MBA either. https://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/16/apple-thunderbolt-display-with-multiple-monitors/

EDIT - I don't have a TB display, let alone two of them, so no idea personally. Just spewing what I've read in hopes to come to the correct information.

KylePowers said:

Proof? Here's what it says on the website about the MBA:

Here's what it says about the rMBP:

I'm not sure where you're getting the MBA can do 2x Thunderbolt + display when it only has one Thunderbolt port. And when you can't daisy chain Thunderbolt displays with the MBA either. https://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/16/apple-thunderbolt-display-with-multiple-monitors/

EDIT - I don't have a TB display, let alone two of them, so no idea personally. Just spewing what I've read in hopes to come to the correct information.

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Here's the cold hard facts:

The 2012 (not the 2011) MacBook Air can do either:

Two Thunderbolt Displays (PLUS its own display)

OR
1x Thunderbolt display + 1x other display (using a miniDisplayPort adaptor) BUT must have another piece of thunderbolt hardware (e.g an external hard drive) inbetween the thunderbolt display and the non-thunderbolt display.

Proof:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/06/new-macbooks-can-manage-many-many-monitors/

Or even more official proof, on Apples own site:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5219#dispnum

Note that whilst the Apple site says it supports two thunderbolt displays, you can do what I said above with the non-TB display and it does work.

Also, the fact that the air only has 1TB port is completely irrelevant as the technology supports daisy-chaining.

CASLondon said:

Yes, Digilloyd is a photographer, but that's the point of the "pro" moniker.

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Just to note... his rMBP might be affected by the infamous EFI bug, which brings its performance to a crawl.

I don't have any "slow" problem with my rMBP while working in either Lightroom or Photoshop (when the EFI bug hasn't crept in, that is). Though admittedly, I don't take photos that regularly.

CASLondon said:

Yes, Digilloyd is a photographer, but that's the point of the "pro" moniker.

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The 13" Pro has long been "pro" in name only. The fact that it's Apple's best seller is telling. Remember, Apple sells 4 million Macs a quarter, 4 times as many iPads, and 10 times as many iPhones. They are content with a niche market share for OS X.

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surjavarman said:

Apple are really trying to extract as much $$ from their customers as people while they still popular. What happened to Steve Jobs philosophy.

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Because we all knew that Steve Jobs NEVER charged a lot of money for his products.

rmwebs said:

Here's the cold hard facts:

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Neato burrito. Learn something new every day!

KylePowers said:

Neato burrito. Learn something new every day!

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It does make the Air a very viable machine

KPOM said:

The difference is DigiLloyd is a hard core photographer and editor. He has a Mac Pro with 64GB and complains that the quad-core 15" with 16GB is too slow at times. As for history, remember it wasn't so much Sculley as it was Spindler and Amelio who really screwed up Apple. Sculley's biggest mistake was granting Microsoft an open-ended license. Apple hasn't made that mistake again.

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If you were looking at 16GB + ssd for extra scratch space, you could handle some pretty massive files without problems. Photoshop specifically doesn't harness extra cores very well. It gains a little, but the diminishing returns are pretty severe at higher core counts. They have fixed a couple things. CS6 can save large files in the background. You can save uncompressed. The 2011s could chew through 2GB+ layered files. I mean the type that have to be saved .psb rather than .psd due to sheer size. The main thing that sucks is the thermals. These machines can run uncomfortably hot under such loads, to the point where even the keyboard feels uncomfortably warm. Adobe applications do take some tuning at times. You can set things like ram allocation. If he users a high number of history state and cache levels or spotlight interferes with his scratch directories, that will make a huge impact on perceived performance.

I'm not really saying whether the guy is wrong. It's just that the issue isn't as simple as this.

Nah OP, you're way wrong about that. You need officials to officially pronounce that kind of stuff.

13in rMBP= HD4000 only which is crap
iPad Mini= Smaller version of iPad 2 but only 50bucks cheaper w/ no retina
iMac= we will see

I know why Apple's stock is going downhill today

Now I know why I try to avoid Macrumors forums after a keynote.

I just grow weary of internet Nostradamus.

it really is depressing to watch; every time apple comes out with something new, forum peeps start proclaiming "apple goes downhill" "apple-FAIL", "this is the worst" etc. etc.

then life goes on, and people buy what they CHOOSE to buy. as always...

fisherking said:

it really is depressing to watch; every time apple comes out with something new, forum peeps start proclaiming "apple goes downhill" "apple-FAIL", "this is the worst" etc. etc.

then life goes on, and people buy what they CHOOSE to buy. as always...

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I feel you. The haters are only a smaller % of the Apple market. I'm excited to see this round of Apple products in store.

As a computer tech I find it useful to have an optical drive I am shocked to hear that people will still be willing to fork out a lot of money for a laptop that has no optical drive or ethernet drive and is not user servicable? Dont give me crap oh you can buy external drives, you cant take that stuff with you everywhere. Makes me think to start charging more to fix pcs with no optical drives cause it makes me waste my time fixing them.

KylePowers said:

More expensive, yes. Larger, yes. Heavier, yes. Less performance, no. Its CPU has a higher clock frequency. Can't forget being able to power 3 displays too (the MBA can't do that), so that's pretty useful. If you don't like it, then don't buy it, silly goose.

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Everyone can still buy it, I'm buying a maxed out one to play with and then returning it. It is fun to do fun things like that. Lets everyone do that!

surjavarman said:

Thats it. Apple has officially gone downhill.

Take away the hi-res display of the rmbp13 and you got something that more expensive, larger, heavier and less performance than the MBA13 (rmbp15 is already struggling at times). How is this a good product?

Then the ipad mini. Are you kidding me? You need to sandpaper your fingers to use that thing. Its doa, more expensive than the nexus 7 and with less specs.

Apple are really trying to extract as much $$ from their customers as people while they still popular. What happened to Steve Jobs philosophy.

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Gee what a killjoy post. If you don't want one of these products, don't open your wallet. It's that simple. How are Apple going downhill offering updates more often on their products, and introducting a tablet that falls between iPod touch size and the big iPad? One that comes with cams, and Siri? Are you kidding? It will sell like hotcakes.

I really liked this rollout event. I can hardly wait to put in my pre order for the mini iPad and hope to be able to update my iPad this cycle as well. All the rest of the stuff was also very attractive perhaps especially the iMac refresh, and I'm not even a desktop user.