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MacPat333
Oct 28, 2012, 07:43 AM
Hey guys,

I am patiently waiting the launch of the iMac 27" which I will mostly max out.

Currently running everything from a 10" Asus Eee PC and can't wait for an upgrade. I will however keep the Eee for the daily surfing on the web in the living room while my wife will enjoy her iPad. I don't want to sit in the bedroom with the iMac while my wife will be in the living room, therefore I am thinking about an MBA for next year.

I won't need it now, so I think about waiting for the updated 2013 MBA, but wonder how the update will look like!

What do you guys expect?

Thx



Lukewarmwinner
Oct 28, 2012, 08:12 AM
Hey guys,

I am patiently waiting the launch of the iMac 27" which I will mostly max out.

Currently running everything from a 10" Asus Eee PC and can't wait for an upgrade. I will however keep the Eee for the daily surfing on the web in the living room while my wife will enjoy her iPad. I don't want to sit in the bedroom with the iMac while my wife will be in the living room, therefore I am thinking about an MBA for next year.

I won't need it now, so I think about waiting for the updated 2013 MBA, but wonder how the update will look like!

What do you guys expect?

Thx

Pretty much just a CPU upgrade (Haswell)

MacPat333
Oct 28, 2012, 08:14 AM
I would hope for a better battery and bigger SSD.

GrandPhrase
Oct 28, 2012, 08:17 AM
Well we know that retina is at least possible, just the battery issues.. I think retina will be implemented, I know there will be a lot of doubters though..

NutsNGum
Oct 28, 2012, 08:36 AM
Pretty much just a CPU upgrade (Haswell)

And by extension a relatively decent GPU bump.

Calot
Oct 28, 2012, 09:52 AM
I would hope for a better battery and bigger SSD.

Highly doubt that. Or if it happens, it will be extremely expensive.

Now, to go from 256 to 500 SSD costs 500 US Dollars, which is an insult to human intelligence.

----------

Well we know that retina is at least possible, just the battery issues.. I think retina will be implemented, I know there will be a lot of doubters though..

I would much likely prefer a 1600x1000 IPS display. I think retina is too much. I very much like my Air's display. A 10%-15% increase in pixel density and better viewing angles/color reproduction/saturation would be 'magical'. :rolleyes:

GrandPhrase
Oct 28, 2012, 10:51 AM
Highly doubt that. Or if it happens, it will be extremely expensive.

Now, to go from 256 to 500 SSD costs 500 US Dollars, which is an insult to human intelligence.

----------



I would much likely prefer a 1600x1000 IPS display. I think retina is too much. I very much like my Air's display. A 10%-15% increase in pixel density and better viewing angles/color reproduction/saturation would be 'magical'. :rolleyes:

Well I do agree retina is too much, but if they could have 2 types of MBA like the cMBP and rMBP they could have the cheaper one with just upgraded CPU etc. and the higher end with retina, Haswell with a price of like 1700-1800 (similar to 13" rMBP)

And usually retina comes with IPS (more viewing angles etc.) from evidence of 13" rMBP, retina iPad, iPhone 4 retina, etc. as they all have IPS

And also there is competition rising - Samsung displayed a 2560x1600 retina 13" ultrabook at an event, so I think retina has to be included (in the higher end 1700-1800? MBA at least while the lower end remains)

Have your thoughts changed, or remained?.. 😮

jc244
Oct 28, 2012, 11:00 AM
Now, to go from 256 to 500 SSD costs 500 US Dollars, which is an insult to human intelligence.



It definitely is. But I had to do it. My MBA 13" is strictly for use on the go. I have an SD card (128GB) for media files, but just need a large capacity drive to run all my applications and still have room to save files.

Stetrain
Oct 28, 2012, 11:39 AM
Haswell CPU/GPU, which should result in somewhat better performance but also much better battery life for the ULV chips. I've read that the TDP on those chips is going from 17W to 10W for Haswell.

Maybe we'll see IPS displays, but at the same resolution.

I don't think we will see a pixel density increase until they eventually go retina in a couple of years. Increasing the pixel density slightly will just make text smaller. Going all the way to the ~220dpi of the retina Macbooks lets you do the UI scaling without noticeable artifacts.

Mrbobb
Oct 28, 2012, 11:56 AM
I don't want to sit in the bedroom with the iMac while my wife will be in the living room

Why not. That way no fight for the remote! :D

Incremental upgrades me thinks.

Seeing how expensive the 13" Pro Retina is, I don't expect one soon for the Air. They are trying to position the Air to compete with the Ultrabooks.

iAppl3Fan
Oct 28, 2012, 12:07 PM
It will just be haswell. Retina is too new and it just made it to the pro line so apple probably wouldn't put it in the air especially since it a huge drain on battery. Furthermore, it a differentiator and keeps the prices of the air down.

jmpnop
Oct 28, 2012, 01:06 PM
Retina display wouldn't make it to MBA. The rMBP is thinner than the cMBP, retina MBA would be very close to retina MBP 13". Makes no sense imo.

The next MBA will get the usual upgrades, Haswell CPU, Intel HD 5000, hopefully 128GB SSD standard in the base-model and 8GB RAM standard in the higher-end models.

Calot
Oct 28, 2012, 01:23 PM
Well I do agree retina is too much, but if they could have 2 types of MBA like the cMBP and rMBP they could have the cheaper one with just upgraded CPU etc. and the higher end with retina, Haswell with a price of like 1700-1800 (similar to 13" rMBP)

And usually retina comes with IPS (more viewing angles etc.) from evidence of 13" rMBP, retina iPad, iPhone 4 retina, etc. as they all have IPS

And also there is competition rising - Samsung displayed a 2560x1600 retina 13" ultrabook at an event, so I think retina has to be included (in the higher end 1700-1800? MBA at least while the lower end remains)

Have your thoughts changed, or remained?.. 😮

I never thought they would put retina on the 13" to be honest.

I find it extremely overpriced. And you will never be able to run any game more complex than Plants vs. Zombies at native resolution, which is the reason I did not get a 15" rMBP. I would probably get a 15" rMBP when they get a much more advanced graphics card. At least 2GB vRAM.

So I guess no, my toughts remain. A 1600ishx1000ish resolution on the next Air, coupled with improved graphics should make a very capable machine, even more than the 2012 Air.

There seems to be a few variants of Haswell, starting at 10w but some of them I think go above 20+w, there being a 17w one, which would be awesome to get on the next Air as it would make it quite more powerful than this year's.

GrandPhrase
Oct 28, 2012, 03:14 PM
I never thought they would put retina on the 13" to be honest.

I find it extremely overpriced. And you will never be able to run any game more complex than Plants vs. Zombies at native resolution, which is the reason I did not get a 15" rMBP. I would probably get a 15" rMBP when they get a much more advanced graphics card. At least 2GB vRAM.

So I guess no, my toughts remain. A 1600ishx1000ish resolution on the next Air, coupled with improved graphics should make a very capable machine, even more than the 2012 Air.

There seems to be a few variants of Haswell, starting at 10w but some of them I think go above 20+w, there being a 17w one, which would be awesome to get on the next Air as it would make it quite more powerful than this year's.

Yeah, agree about the overpricing. Guess it's cause Apple is the only one with purchasable retina laptops at this point and with the low yields, Apple has a sort of monopoly for now and has the "right" to raise prices (higher price for retina is definitely justifiable, but there is probably a premium in the cost somewhere)

Actually, the 13" rMBP proved to have much less lag compared to the 15" rMBP if you see tech reviews on prominent sites and YouTube channels, and in certain areas lag was not present. (tldtoday/jon4lakers 13" rMBP review showed 1080P video playing in an editing software while scrolling in Safari and switching between spaces while having minimal jitters) And remember.. the rMBP is a "Pro" machine - the Air is probably for those who want the most portable, so users purchasing will not use it mainly for Photoshop etc that even the next gen graphics will have stutters, but most likely use it primarily for word processing, mini games, web browsing, music, and the like where the next gen graphics will probably make basic tasks very nearly jitter free.

It's fine if you think retina isn't going in the next MBA - part of me agrees too, I guess my desire for retina is trying to keep justifying it being in the next revision.

Also, I don't think Apple will make a partial increase in resolution - only doubling. This is evident in all Apple products that have made some sort of movement for better displays. It will cause fragmentation and developers will have to update apps for 1600x1000 compatibility just for the Air (one device among many iNotebooks). Even the retina iPad doubled, though many doubted it and even the iPad mini is at the iPad 2 resolution. So even if retina is not in the next Air revision, I think the resolution will remain. (Double or nothing)

Just my personal opinion lol.

mattopotamus
Oct 28, 2012, 03:26 PM
Retina display wouldn't make it to MBA. The rMBP is thinner than the cMBP, retina MBA would be very close to retina MBP 13". Makes no sense imo.

The next MBA will get the usual upgrades, Haswell CPU, Intel HD 5000, hopefully 128GB SSD standard in the base-model and 8GB RAM standard in the higher-end models.

I agree with the upgrades you mentioned, but I think RAM and SSD will stay the same...stock 4gb and 64.

AdrainSingapore
Oct 28, 2012, 07:17 PM
I think they will bump the graphics and processor power up, nothing much for a light user like me.

Miat
Oct 28, 2012, 07:37 PM
Haswell chips
Cheaper SSD
Better quality screen

lewdvig
Oct 28, 2012, 09:15 PM
Haswell CPU/GPU, which should result in somewhat better performance but also much better battery life for the ULV chips. I've read that the TDP on those chips is going from 17W to 10W for Haswell.

Maybe we'll see IPS displays, but at the same resolution.

I don't think we will see a pixel density increase until they eventually go retina in a couple of years. Increasing the pixel density slightly will just make text smaller. Going all the way to the ~220dpi of the retina Macbooks lets you do the UI scaling without noticeable artifacts.

2x GPU performance. Yeah that is 'somewhat' better.

hcho3
Oct 28, 2012, 09:23 PM
If apple puts Retina display on MBA, then who will buy 13 inch MBP with retina Display?

There has to be some sort of difference between the two. The biggest difference between these two devices are only the DISPLAY.

Apple won't put retina on Macbook air for few more years.

ipoddin
Oct 28, 2012, 09:31 PM
Retina display wouldn't make it to MBA. The rMBP is thinner than the cMBP, retina MBA would be very close to retina MBP 13". Makes no sense imo.

The next MBA will get the usual upgrades, Haswell CPU, Intel HD 5000, hopefully 128GB SSD standard in the base-model and 8GB RAM standard in the higher-end models.

With maybe a 16gb RAM option?

Stetrain
Oct 28, 2012, 09:32 PM
2x GPU performance. Yeah that is 'somewhat' better.

In Ultrabooks those gains will be limited to around 30% max given the strict power limits.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/intels-haswell-architecture/12

Pretty good, but not 2x.

TheRichboy247
Oct 28, 2012, 10:43 PM
I hope there will be an discrete GPU for graphics performance. The HD4000 just sometimes isn't enough. There may be a chance of a redesign but I don't think thats gonna happen.

MacPat333
Oct 29, 2012, 03:38 AM
I would hope for a standard 128GB SSD, a faster processor and a bit more power for the graphics card. And I believe they should give more RAM as standard, cause 4GB won't be futureproof until 2015 or 2016.

And they should keep the price for te upgrade package.

Steve121178
Oct 29, 2012, 08:44 AM
There might be an incremental update Q1 2013 but I don't think we'll see a major update until Haswell (June 2013).

intz2nu
Oct 29, 2012, 09:05 AM
Tos a retina on it and I will pay billions just for this alone! :p

macmastersam
Oct 29, 2012, 09:09 AM
Hey guys,

I am patiently waiting the launch of the iMac 27" which I will mostly max out.

Currently running everything from a 10" Asus Eee PC and can't wait for an upgrade. I will however keep the Eee for the daily surfing on the web in the living room while my wife will enjoy her iPad. I don't want to sit in the bedroom with the iMac while my wife will be in the living room, therefore I am thinking about an MBA for next year.

I won't need it now, so I think about waiting for the updated 2013 MBA, but wonder how the update will look like!

What do you guys expect?

Thx

Well i hope to see 16GB of ram as an upgrade option on 2013's MBA! :D
Intel's haswell architecture involves:

Compared to Ivy Bridge:
Expected at least 10% CPU performance increase.
Expected double the performance of the integrated GPU


OP, what are you uses for the macbook air? looking at the improvements, i reckon whatever you do, you can do it on the macbook air! :)

Steve121178
Oct 29, 2012, 09:16 AM
With the current battery config, a retina display would significantly reduce the battery life.

The MBA would need to be engineered for a retina display. Apple would need to offer users at least the same (approx) 7 hours use.

Stetrain
Oct 29, 2012, 09:41 AM
With the current battery config, a retina display would significantly reduce the battery life.

The MBA would need to be engineered for a retina display. Apple would need to offer users at least the same (approx) 7 hours use.

Honestly the current pixel density on the Air is pretty good. If they were IPS displays I think that they would be great for a lot of people.

I'm sure they will go retina eventually, but I don't think that they're in a rush to do so. I think that they'd rather keep that for the more expensive notebooks and keep the Macbook Air at it's current price and form factor.

ggf
Oct 29, 2012, 10:15 AM
I currently have the 2010 Air so I will probably upgrade in 2013 just for the processor speed and the USB 3 and thunderbolt ports. The extra speed would be handy for the few occasions when I want to render video.

The processor speed bump is all I am really expecting. We may see something like the rumoured graphite cases to reduce weight and some slight reduction in thickness (because of the ports there is not much scope to reduce the edge thickness but there may be some small gains possible by reducing some of the curves).

What I would like them to do (but don't really expect) is to upgrade the display to 1920 by 1080 so that the screen will display at full res on a TV when shared with Airplay. Not really fussed about retina but mirroring to the TV would be good.

Steve121178
Oct 29, 2012, 10:45 AM
Honestly the current pixel density on the Air is pretty good. If they were IPS displays I think that they would be great for a lot of people.

The MBA screen is ok, but it's not in the same league as my Vaio Z's premium panel with 95% Adobe RGB colour reproduction. I think the Air's is around the 40% mark.

Stetrain
Oct 29, 2012, 03:38 PM
The MBA screen is ok, but it's not in the same league as my Vaio Z's premium panel with 95% Adobe RGB colour reproduction. I think the Air's is around the 40% mark.

Right. If they made it a high quality panel (IPS, good color reproduction, good viewing angles) at the current pixel density that would be great.

I don't think that increasing the pixel density slightly (say going to 1920x1080 on the 13") would work well for most people, since that would just make text smaller.

yanksrock100
Oct 29, 2012, 10:47 PM
It will just be a processor update. We will see a big design change (or retina) a few years down the road.

Lukewarmwinner
Oct 30, 2012, 01:52 AM
It will just be a processor update. We will see a big design change (or retina) a few years down the road.

Agreed. Apple need to make the Air their new best seller as the cMBP. By making the retina more expensive the air seems cheap, and will be selling more than before the existence of Retina 13". They won't change anything before a couple of years.

atMac
Oct 30, 2012, 05:46 AM
I hope there will be an discrete GPU for graphics performance. The HD4000 just sometimes isn't enough. There may be a chance of a redesign but I don't think thats gonna happen.

What do you do that the 4000 isn't enough on the Air? I game on my 3000.


I plan to get the 2013 just to upgrade to 8GB of RAM.

Stetrain
Oct 30, 2012, 08:35 AM
Agreed. Apple need to make the Air their new best seller as the cMBP. By making the retina more expensive the air seems cheap, and will be selling more than before the existence of Retina 13". They won't change anything before a couple of years.

Yep. If anything I could see the 13" Air getting even cheaper. They already chopped $100 off for the 2012 model. If they keep everything the same (128GB SSD, 1440x900 non-IPS display) I could see it eventually dropping down to match the old white Macbook's $999 pricepoint.

Or possibly they will continue to improve the base model with a bigger SSD, more RAM, and slightly better display to hold the $1200-$1300 pricepoint.

GrandPhrase
Oct 30, 2012, 08:48 AM
Yep. If anything I could see the 13" Air getting even cheaper. They already chopped $100 off for the 2012 model. If they keep everything the same (128GB SSD, 1440x900 non-IPS display) I could see it eventually dropping down to match the old white Macbook's $999 pricepoint.

Or possibly they will continue to improve the base model with a bigger SSD, more RAM, and slightly better display to hold the $1200-$1300 pricepoint.

I agree as well on the cMBA pricing etc. However, remember that retina can always go into the premium model while keeping the cMBA price low. Just like they did with the 15" and 13" rMBP. - Adding a premium option like its brothers will merely provide option, not "coersion" so retina is possible I would say.

Stetrain
Oct 30, 2012, 08:54 AM
I agree as well on the cMBA pricing etc. However, remember that retina can always go into the premium model while keeping the cMBA price low. Just like they did with the 15" and 13" rMBP. - Adding a premium option like its brothers will merely provide option, not "coersion" so retina is possible I would say.

I'm not sure that there's room for an additional Retina Macbook Air. Right now the battery and CPU/GPU requirements would basically lead to the same form factor as the 13" RMBP. In the future if the requirements of the Retina display get so low that a Macbook Air can easily handle one then the price will probably have come down too at that point.

robvas
Oct 30, 2012, 08:55 AM
More screen would be nice. But don't go 1600x900 and end up making the screen shorter.

GrandPhrase
Oct 30, 2012, 09:08 AM
I'm not sure that there's room for an additional Retina Macbook Air. Right now the battery and CPU/GPU requirements would basically lead to the same form factor as the 13" RMBP. In the future if the requirements of the Retina display get so low that a Macbook Air can easily handle one then the price will probably have come down too at that point.

Well, I'm not saying for certain Apple will meet the requirements, but I'm sure Haswell will help out a lot in GPU and battery department. Andantech claims vast GPU improvements and Intel claims Haswell brings double the battery (hyped, but with retina - can bring battery back to current states). Also, we DO know that retina can fit into a 13" ultrabook as evinced by the 2560x1440 prototype Samsung Series 9 shown earlier. (Pricing as I said, mentioned in previous post).

With the competition such as the Series 9 Premium model(13" is .5 thick WOW and 2.55 lbs while MBA is about 2.96 lbs. and .55 thick if thickness were to be averaged) and other ultrabooks way thinner, Apple has to redesign soon and somehow come up with a way to wipe them out.

Bollebep
Oct 31, 2012, 10:26 AM
I'm not sure. Haswell is due for mid 2013... after the yearly release of the new MBA... so i'm actually quite curious when the 2013 MBA will be released.

GrandPhrase
Nov 1, 2012, 08:00 PM
More screen would be nice. But don't go 1600x900 and end up making the screen shorter.

I think they will make the bezel smaller just like the rMBPs.

oginome
Nov 1, 2012, 09:56 PM
cpu upgrade, retina, thin bezel

GrandPhrase
Nov 1, 2012, 09:59 PM
cpu upgrade, retina, thin bezel

*high five* i think we are one of the few who agree on all 3

SenorVvangIstMoi
Nov 1, 2012, 10:55 PM
IMO > no retina til mid 2014 coupled with a thinner redesign.

TheRichboy247
Nov 2, 2012, 02:03 AM
I think they will make the bezel smaller just like the rMBPs.

If they make the bezel smaller, will they make the form factor smaller? I quite like the size of it. The 13" rMBP seems a bit small.

----------

What do you do that the 4000 isn't enough on the Air? I game on my 3000.


I plan to get the 2013 just to upgrade to 8GB of RAM.

I just play a bit of Minecraft and it heats up like crazy! What kind of gaming do you do on your MBA? I plan to do more hardcore gaming.

GrandPhrase
Nov 2, 2012, 02:21 AM
If they make the bezel smaller, will they make the form factor smaller? I quite like the size of it. The 13" rMBP seems a bit small.[COLOR="#808080"]

Yeah.. A smaller bezel will make the footprint smaller as the bezel is the outer edge. I guess they are doing it for aesthetic reasons as the smaller bezel usually looks better (following rMBP line) and for the smaller size as, after all the MBA is marketed as portable.

Actually, I've been to an Apple store and held the rMBP in my hands and yeah.. it does feel too small and my hands while resting on the keyboard/trackpad/palmrest area feel like they have nowhere to go - but I guess that is the only way to make the bezel smaller. Hopefully when I get my hands on the future MBA I'll get used to its smaller footprint (speculation, of course).

TheRichboy247
Nov 2, 2012, 02:33 AM
Yeah.. A smaller bezel will make the footprint smaller as the bezel is the outer edge. I guess they are doing it for aesthetic reasons as the smaller bezel usually looks better (following rMBP line) and for the smaller size as, after all the MBA is marketed as portable.

Actually, I've been to an Apple store and held the rMBP in my hands and yeah.. it does feel too small and my hands while resting on the keyboard/trackpad/palmrest area feel like they have nowhere to go - but I guess that is the only way to make the bezel smaller. Hopefully when I get my hands on the future MBA I'll get used to its smaller footprint (speculation, of course).

Well if they do make the bezel smaller, I hope it would be a slightly bigger screen because I like the current footprint of the MBA. There isn't enough room and everything is a bit more cramped on the rMBP 13".