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surjavarman
Oct 29, 2012, 07:13 PM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic? I mean I like their specs and prices and android is a capable OS. But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass. Precise and durable.

I wouldn't even consider the ipad mini, ipad4 or iphone5 if they could just offer me a quality piece of hardware. They obviously got the tech and internals that is superior to tech from Apple.



Rodster
Oct 29, 2012, 07:22 PM
I have the original Galaxy Tab 10.1 metallic grey and it's probably made of plastic but you couldn't tell. Moral of the story, if your going to use plastic fool them into thinking it ain't. :eek: :D

zbarvian
Oct 29, 2012, 07:27 PM
Because they're a shameless, uninspired tech company only concerned with reaping the greatest profits. At least, that's my impression of them. They don't seem to care about making quality devices or having good support. Their screens are cheap, the materials they use are cheap, it's all about $$$.

HTC is a far better brand, IMO.

DingleButt
Oct 29, 2012, 07:29 PM
Cheap and light which goes over well with some people. If you do it right it works, but they dont IMO. Playing with the new Tabs, they felt very cheap.

cnguyen0320
Oct 29, 2012, 07:31 PM
I dont care for metal. I almost always have a case and the plastic isnt't bad. I'd like them to produce better looking products though. The design of the iPhone is great. The Nexus 4 is comparably amazing but with plastic. Put more thought into designing something that looks nice regarless of material.

zbarvian
Oct 29, 2012, 07:34 PM
I dont care for metal. I almost always have a case and the plastic isnt't bad. I'd like them to produce better looking products though. The design of the iPhone is great. The Nexus 4 is comparably amazing but with plastic. Put more thought into designing something that looks nice regarless of material.

The Nexus 4 is glass.

thekev
Oct 29, 2012, 07:46 PM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic? I mean I like their specs and prices and android is a capable OS. But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass.

I just wanted to mention that Apple dropped the use of titanium back in the era of their powerbook G4 machines due to wireless signal interference. Was there any reason for these specific materials?

Cheap and light which goes over well with some people. If you do it right it works, but they dont IMO. Playing with the new Tabs, they felt very cheap.

I don't own anything by Samsung, just to get that out of the way. Plastic comes in different grades, much like aluminum. Metals do sometimes cause problems with signal interference. You can use plastic to make cheap things, but variants are also used in aircraft parts. Cheap grades of aluminum are used in soda cans. If anything I'd say that Apple's costs in using aluminum are skewed in favor of cost to process the materials than material costs themselves.

marc11
Oct 29, 2012, 07:49 PM
[/COLOR]I dont care for metal. I almost always have a case and the plastic isnt't bad. I'd like them to produce better looking products though. The design of the iPhone is great. The Nexus 4 is comparably amazing but with plastic. Put more thought into designing something that looks nice regarless of material.

You know this is a good point. Yes having premium materials like glass and aluminum is great, I love the look of my iPhone 4...but most people buy these things, and then stick them in plastic cases! lol! So sure, you have the wonderful device made of glass and aluminum and you put it in a $2 plastic case...

So my Nexus 7 has a lot of plastic, but it is inside a leather case, at which point the plastic is not even noticed except for the light weight.

I say give me more of what I want, power, screen, features and save money in areas like a plastic backing, at a good price, I can deal with that.

cnguyen0320
Oct 29, 2012, 08:02 PM
The Nexus 4 is glass.

Whoops. Glass looks nice. Anyway, plastic > metal if a case is used. I think many of us will use a case since protecting the phone for reselling or long term use is more important than the looks (some may disagree). The Nexus 7 looks great in plastic and that comes to show you that design means more than material. Plus with the design techniques we have now, we can make plastic look like metal (i think). So if you dont feel like your tech is less valuable without the metal, plastic is fine.

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[/COLOR]

You know this is a good point. Yes having premium materials like glass and aluminum is great, I love the look of my iPhone 4...but most people buy these things, and then stick them in plastic cases! lol! So sure, you have the wonderful device made of glass and aluminum and you put it in a $2 plastic case...

So my Nexus 7 has a lot of plastic, but it is inside a leather case, at which point the plastic is not even noticed except for the light weight.

I say give me more of what I want, power, screen, features and save money in areas like a plastic backing, at a good price, I can deal with that.

You are a winner. I'm in the same boat. Give me functionality over "premium feel." My case for my ipad feels more premium than my ipad without it (and it cost $30).

3bs
Oct 29, 2012, 09:28 PM
Plus with the design techniques we have now, we can make plastic look like metal (i think). So if you dont feel like your tech is less valuable without the metal, plastic is fine.

I think that's what they did with the Nexus 10, at least according to this interview (go to 10:32)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66-4uMQqerA&list=PLDAC9CBFE4DE8EC1B&index=22&feature=plpp_video

Stuntman06
Oct 29, 2012, 09:57 PM
I don't understand why people are so hung up on the material on the outside. I've used phones made of different plastics and metals and glass. Regardless of what material they are made of, I no longer notice it after a week or two of using it.

For those who do not like phones made of cheap plastic, would it be better if they were made of expensive plastic?

b24pgg
Oct 29, 2012, 10:04 PM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic? I mean I like their specs and prices and android is a capable OS. But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass.
Firstly, don't confuse build quality with build materials. The material may be cheap, but the build quality of Samsung phones is still excellent.

Secondly, if I have to choose between a plastic bodied device with a removable back to access the battery/SD/SIM cards, vs. an aluminum unibody device with no access to the battery/SD/SIM cards, I will choose the plastic bodied device in a heartbeat, every time.

Thirdly, plastic provides greater tensile strength than aluminum unibody. I'll be the first to admit that the iPhone looks prettier, but that won't help prevent your screen from shattering when your phone gets knocked off a desk or slips from your hand.

tl;dr: iPhone's metal unibody looks better, but plastic makes much more practical sense

cnguyen0320
Oct 29, 2012, 10:19 PM
Firstly, don't confuse build quality with build materials. The material may be cheap, but the build quality of Samsung phones is still excellent.

Secondly, if I have to choose between a plastic bodied device with a removable back to access the battery/SD/SIM cards, vs. an aluminum unibody device with no access to the battery/SD/SIM cards, I will choose the plastic bodied device in a heartbeat, every time.

Thirdly, plastic provides greater tensile strength than aluminum unibody. I'll be the first to admit that the iPhone looks prettier, but that won't help prevent your screen from shattering when your phone gets knocked off a desk or slips from your hand.

tl;dr: iPhone's metal unibody looks better, but plastic makes much more practical sense

Exactly! However android authority did drop test with iphone 5 vs gs3 and iphone 5 did great. No screen cracks after 4 drops with max height of 6 ft i think. iPhone does great with their build quality but it is super expensive. At the end of the day though, function over looks

zbarvian
Oct 29, 2012, 10:25 PM
Firstly, don't confuse build quality with build materials. The material may be cheap, but the build quality of Samsung phones is still excellent.

Secondly, if I have to choose between a plastic bodied device with a removable back to access the battery/SD/SIM cards, vs. an aluminum unibody device with no access to the battery/SD/SIM cards, I will choose the plastic bodied device in a heartbeat, every time.

Thirdly, plastic provides greater tensile strength than aluminum unibody. I'll be the first to admit that the iPhone looks prettier, but that won't help prevent your screen from shattering when your phone gets knocked off a desk or slips from your hand.

tl;dr: iPhone's metal unibody looks better, but plastic makes much more practical sense

The iPhone 5 fares better than the S3 in drop tests, and is far lighter than the S3. What practical sense are you referring to?

3bs
Oct 29, 2012, 10:31 PM
The iPhone 5 fares better than the S3 in drop tests, and is far lighter than the S3. What practical sense are you referring to?

But the iPhone 5 blends faster :p

Vegastouch
Oct 29, 2012, 10:33 PM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic? I mean I like their specs and prices and android is a capable OS. But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass. Precise and durable.

I wouldn't even consider the ipad mini, ipad4 or iphone5 if they could just offer me a quality piece of hardware. They obviously got the tech and internals that is superior to tech from Apple.

NFC wont work with those materials on the back of it. Polycarbonate isnt bad plastic. I have my GS3 in a Otterbox so who cares what it is made out of. Besides, who wants a all glass device that makes it weigh more and fragile?

Sound familiar?

Technarchy
Oct 29, 2012, 10:42 PM
Besides, who wants a all glass device that makes it weigh more and fragile?

Sound familiar?

Anyone that wants a Nexus 4...

zbarvian
Oct 29, 2012, 10:44 PM
NFC wont work with those materials on the back of it. Polycarbonate isnt bad plastic. I have my GS3 in a Otterbox so who cares what it is made out of. Besides, who wants a all glass device that makes it weigh more and fragile?

Sound familiar?

Nexus 4!

----------

But the iPhone 5 blends faster :p

I stand corrected

Southernboyj
Oct 29, 2012, 10:48 PM
Because they're a shameless, uninspired tech company only concerned with reaping the greatest profits. At least, that's my impression of them. They don't seem to care about making quality devices or having good support. Their screens are cheap, the materials they use are cheap, it's all about $$$.

HTC is a far better brand, IMO.

They do make quality devices.

marc11
Oct 29, 2012, 11:02 PM
Because they're a shameless, uninspired tech company only concerned with reaping the greatest profits. At least, that's my impression of them. They don't seem to care about making quality devices or having good support. Their screens are cheap, the materials they use are cheap, it's all about $$$.

HTC is a far better brand, IMO.

Oh and Apple with the iPad mini is not a shameless, uninspired, profit driven device for a cash hungry company? At least Samsung devices are priced to meet the level of components; that iPad mini is a joke of a device, with two or more year old technology at a profit margin that is insane. You can claim the iPad mini is quality, but it is far from inspiring or cutting edge and you are paying for that "quality". Using an old processor is not cheap? Using the reported 512 mb of ram when everyone else is offering 1 or 2 Gb is not cheap? Not including GPS or NFC while others do is not cheap? And then charging 30% or more over the others is not money hungry?

What is even better, is all these iPad mini fans who justify their purchases by stating the "quality" of the glass and aluminum shells and then stick them in cheap plastic cases, you know, to protect them...

And now Samsung screens are cheap? Yet those are the ones everyone screams for in their Macs and iPads??? Funny how Apple fans can turn on a dime.

The bottom line is they use QUALITY plastics to make their devices to keep costs and weight down and to enable certain types of technology. You aren't paying the premium price, the price reflects the quality parts used inside and you save with the plastics used on the outside. A year later when you upgrade, will you really care if it had a plastic backing as you slide it out of your plastic case?

Vegastouch
Oct 29, 2012, 11:12 PM
I just wanted to mention that Apple dropped the use of titanium back in the era of their powerbook G4 machines due to wireless signal interference. Was there any reason for these specific materials?



I don't own anything by Samsung, just to get that out of the way. Plastic comes in different grades, much like aluminum. Metals do sometimes cause problems with signal interference. You can use plastic to make cheap things, but variants are also used in aircraft parts. Cheap grades of aluminum are used in soda cans. If anything I'd say that Apple's costs in using aluminum are skewed in favor of cost to process the materials than material costs themselves.

No, thinner grades of aluminum are used in soda cans. Very thin grades. Aluminum is a cheap product period. There are no good grades and bad grades. Alloy is more pure but it isnt some great product.
You can polish it and make it shinier but it is still a cheap and light material.

Sensamic
Oct 29, 2012, 11:17 PM
Because they're a shameless, uninspired tech company only concerned with reaping the greatest profits. At least, that's my impression of them. They don't seem to care about making quality devices or having good support. Their screens are cheap, the materials they use are cheap, it's all about $$$.

HTC is a far better brand, IMO.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Exactly.

thekev
Oct 29, 2012, 11:26 PM
No, thinner grades of aluminum are used in soda cans. Very thin grades. Aluminum is a cheap product period. There are no good grades and bad grades. Alloy is more pure but it isnt some great product.
You can polish it and make it shinier but it is still a cheap and light material.

Bleh I thought there was a little more variation than that, given its use as an alloy in aircrafts and other things. My point before was more one that using aluminum doesn't necessarily make the device better than something made of plastic. Thank you for the correction.

Vegastouch
Oct 29, 2012, 11:26 PM
Anyone that wants a Nexus 4...

The Nexus 4 weighs the same as the iPhone 4s and it is MUCH bigger. Yes it has glass on the back so ive read but im sure it isnt the same crap that Apple used. How else could it be the same weight as the iP4S being much bigger with a much bigger battery?

If it is fragile, i wont get one.

Zwhaler
Oct 29, 2012, 11:43 PM
Because they're a shameless, uninspired tech company only concerned with reaping the greatest profits. At least, that's my impression of them. They don't seem to care about making quality devices or having good support. Their screens are cheap, the materials they use are cheap, it's all about $$$.

HTC is a far better brand, IMO.

Or maybe because when you pack in faster internals and a larger battery making the covers out of heavy duty plastic makes the devices lighter ..

michaeljohn
Oct 29, 2012, 11:46 PM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic? I mean I like their specs and prices and android is a capable OS. But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass. Precise and durable.

I wouldn't even consider the ipad mini, ipad4 or iphone5 if they could just offer me a quality piece of hardware. They obviously got the tech and internals that is superior to tech from Apple.

Polycarbonate is not cheap plastic. Do some research before making a ridiculous claim.

Sdahe
Oct 29, 2012, 11:47 PM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic? I mean I like their specs and prices and android is a capable OS. But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass. Precise and durable.

I wouldn't even consider the ipad mini, ipad4 or iphone5 if they could just offer me a quality piece of hardware. They obviously got the tech and internals that is superior to tech from Apple.

How do you know Samsung uses cheap plastic?... Really, how do you know that

aeboi
Oct 30, 2012, 01:00 AM
All of these "high quality metal unibody designs" don't allow for removable batteries. What's up with that.

onthecouchagain
Oct 30, 2012, 01:21 AM
The Nexus 4 is gorilla glass 2 front and back. The back surface isn't made entirely of glass (like the iPhone 4/4S). And, it has that center frame to protect the glass in it.

That's about all we can say now. Whether it's shatter prone or not, more or less fragile than the iPhone 4/4S, who knows yet.

adder7712
Oct 30, 2012, 01:42 AM
I use my Galaxy S II without a case, doesn't feel at all cheap. :confused:

onthecouchagain
Oct 30, 2012, 01:44 AM
I use my Galaxy S II without a case, doesn't feel at all cheap. :confused:

I actually think the Galaxy SII is a great looking and feeling device, especially the black one. My younger cousin recently got one and I was actually very impressed by it, especially after hearing so many horrible things about the SII. I guess my standards were lowered significantly by all the hub-bub I heard about how horribly cheap the device felt. Didn't feel that way at all.

To be honest, I feel the SIII feels cheaper than the SII. : shrug :

adder7712
Oct 30, 2012, 01:45 AM
I actually think the Galaxy SII is a great looking and feeling device, especially the black one. My younger cousin recently got one and I was actually very impressed by it, especially after hearing so many horrible things about the SII. I guess my standards were lowered significantly by all the hub-bub I heard about how horribly cheap the device felt. Didn't feel that way at all.

To be honest, I feel the SIII feels cheaper than the SII. : shrug :

Yeah, it's built very well. The only plastic bits are the sides and the back, the front is glass.

Seiga
Oct 30, 2012, 01:53 AM
Because they're a shameless, uninspired tech company only concerned with reaping the greatest profits. At least, that's my impression of them. They don't seem to care about making quality devices or having good support. Their screens are cheap, the materials they use are cheap, it's all about $$$.

HTC is a far better brand, IMO.

Retina on the iPhone 4 and 4s were made by your so called cheap screen company. Not to mention some of the imac displays. Just sayin.

lonewolfe
Oct 30, 2012, 03:31 AM
To answer your question straight up, it's because plastic doesn't break or dent or scratch as easy as other materials... Plus, it's durable. Metal will dent, and glass will crack, so why would you want a phone made out of either of the two? If you want a bulk and protection, buy a case. Plastic will protect itself.

MacRumorUser
Oct 30, 2012, 03:44 AM
Polycarbonate is not cheap plastic. Do some research before making a ridiculous claim.

You mean they made an expensive substance look that cheap !! :eek: Samsung's R&D department really do push the boundaries ;) j/k (with a little hint of truth)

zbarvian
Oct 30, 2012, 06:17 AM
Retina on the iPhone 4 and 4s were made by your so called cheap screen company. Not to mention some of the imac displays. Just sayin.

Yeah those aren't the screens they use in their products tho.

The Face
Oct 30, 2012, 06:22 AM
Why are Samsung products made from cheap plastic? what, you actually think the materials the iPhone is made out of is expensive?

Lul

spinedoc77
Oct 30, 2012, 07:28 AM
I'm impressed with Samsung's "cheap" plastic. I have a 11.6" winPro tablet which is plastic, but it is firm and tight, no flex at all.

surjavarman
Oct 30, 2012, 08:09 AM
Well I don't know why you guys are still even here if you enjoy using cheap flimsy toys because the thinkpad offers far better value than the mba, the nexus7 is better and cheaper than the ipad mini, the note2 is better than the iphone5 and the nexus10 destroys the ipad4.

And plastic is cheap, unattractive and less durable than aluminum. You can use fancy words like polycarbonate unibody or military grade polymer. It doesn't matter plastic will always be prone to cracks, flexing and discoloration. You can argue that plastic is lighter and offers better signal reception. Well that didn't stop apple from making outstanding products. Don't blame it on the materials, blame it on the engineers that design these cheap flimsy toys.

You guys obviously don't appreciate outstanding craftsmanship so I don't see a point of staying on these forums.

ChazUK
Oct 30, 2012, 08:19 AM
Samsung made the one of the best "metal" framed phones I've ever owned, the Omnia 7.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/10/samsung-omnia-7.jpg

Something I'd like to have seen bought over to their high end Android handsets but they seem to stick with plastic based materials on Android for some reason.

The Ativ does share some of the qualaties of the Omnia 7 though.
http://cdn.pocket-lint.com/images/HlJY/samsung-ativ-s-windows-phone-8-pictures-0.jpg?20120830-144341

Looks like another decently built Windows Phone from Samsung.

craftytony
Oct 30, 2012, 08:33 AM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic? I mean I like their specs and prices and android is a capable OS. But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass. Precise and durable.

I wouldn't even consider the ipad mini, ipad4 or iphone5 if they could just offer me a quality piece of hardware. They obviously got the tech and internals that is superior to tech from Apple.

I'd have to agree with an earlier post, Samsung is just looking to pump out as many phones as they can using the cheapest materials available to them.

Apple has set themselves apart with their machining capabilities. Wether or not Samsung will try to come out with a premium built phone with better materials remains to be seen...

rrl
Oct 30, 2012, 08:37 AM
Well I don't know why you guys are still even here if you enjoy using cheap flimsy toys because the thinkpad offers far better value than the mba, the nexus7 is better and cheaper than the ipad mini, the note2 is better than the iphone5 and the nexus10 destroys the ipad4.

And plastic is cheap, unattractive and less durable than aluminum. You can use fancy words like polycarbonate unibody or military grade polymer. It doesn't matter plastic will always be prone to cracks, flexing and discoloration. You can argue that plastic is lighter and offers better signal reception. Well that didn't stop apple from making outstanding products. Don't blame it on the materials, blame it on the engineers that design these cheap flimsy toys.

You guys obviously don't appreciate outstanding craftsmanship so I don't see a point of staying on these forums.

Your ignorance is boring. Please stop.

craftytony
Oct 30, 2012, 08:42 AM
Also, as far as the removable batteries and SD card slots for phones. I could care less for that ability. I prefer the clean design of the iphone with minimal slots and also not having "Sprint, Verizon, or AT&T" plastered on my phone is also nice. I don't want to have to buy extra batteries and memory cards or carry them around with me. If you want more capacity buy the 64GB iphone. And any music I need is available via iTunes Match and my photos go to photo stream. If you need to power up bring a charging cable or as I do I have a charging cable at home, at work, and in my car.

Dave.UK
Oct 30, 2012, 08:47 AM
Also, as far as the removable batteries and SD card slots for phones. I could care less for that ability. I prefer the clean design of the iphone with minimal slots and also not having "Sprint, Verizon, or AT&T" plastered on my phone is also nice. I don't want to have to buy extra batteries and memory cards or carry them around with me. If you want more capacity buy the 64GB iphone. And any music I need is available via iTunes Match and my photos go to photo stream. If you need to power up bring a charging cable or as I do I have a charging cable at home, at work, and in my car.

You do realise you DONT have to buy or carry around spare batteries or a memory card, but the option is available!

I just bought a 32GB Micro SD Card for my Galaxy S3, cost me 10. Cant argue with that. Could buy a 64GB one for 30, but 32GB is more then enough for me. How much extra do apple phones charge to jump from 16GB to 64GB?

When I go camping and theres no plug sockets, I take a couple of spare batteries with me. Job done.

Why do some ios users not like choice?

Jessica Lares
Oct 30, 2012, 09:00 AM
I personally like that when I drop my SII (and I have multiple times), that the only thing that happens is that the battery cover and battery slide all over my floor. Or it just slightly comes off the phone and I just snap it back in, no scratches whatsoever.

Try bending the back of the iPhone 4/4S, THAT is cheap plastic just coated in a thin layer of easily breakable glass.

VFC
Oct 30, 2012, 10:36 AM
I don't understand why people are so hung up on the material on the outside....

You obviously do not have a shrine for your old gadgets.

The Apple fanboys have these beautiful shines of old aluminum gadgets; rivaling the best public museum exhibitions. Some even charge admission.

craftytony
Oct 30, 2012, 10:55 AM
You do realise you DONT have to buy or carry around spare batteries or a memory card, but the option is available!

I just bought a 32GB Micro SD Card for my Galaxy S3, cost me 10. Cant argue with that. Could buy a 64GB one for 30, but 32GB is more then enough for me. How much extra do apple phones charge to jump from 16GB to 64GB?

When I go camping and theres no plug sockets, I take a couple of spare batteries with me. Job done.

Why do some ios users not like choice?

So for in my personal use I've never needed more space or battery storage. I love my choice, instead of clinging to physical removable storage I have the cloud. If I go camping I'll buy a solar charger that can be used with multiple devices. But in reality when I go camping, I leave my electronics off...part of the reason I love camping is to enjoy the great outdoors without the annoyances of our gadgets ;)

I'm not sure why you believe ios users don't like choice? We have plenty of choices to juice up our devices, and we choose to have devices with a beautiful clean design.

The Face
Oct 30, 2012, 11:00 AM
So for in my personal use I've never needed more space or battery storage. I love my choice, instead of clinging to physical removable storage I have the cloud. If I go camping I'll buy a solar charger that can be used with multiple devices. But in reality when I go camping, I leave my electronics off...part of the reason I love camping is to enjoy the great outdoors without the annoyances of our gadgets ;)

I'm not sure why you believe ios users don't like choice? We have plenty of choices to juice up our devices, and we choose to have devices with a beautiful clean design.iOS has choice? Lololololololololol

Please enlighten me on these "choices" you have with you ever so heavily dumbed down and restricted operating system.

ixodes
Oct 30, 2012, 11:01 AM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic?
You are being mislead by your own assumption.

paulsalter
Oct 30, 2012, 11:11 AM
Not something that has every crossed my mind when buying a device

Do I think it looks nice & Does it have the features I want would be my priority, not what it's made of

If I ignored plastic products I would never have become an Apple user

Seiga
Oct 30, 2012, 11:37 AM
Also, as far as the removable batteries and SD card slots for phones. I could care less for that ability. I prefer the clean design of the iphone with minimal slots and also not having "Sprint, Verizon, or AT&T" plastered on my phone is also nice. I don't want to have to buy extra batteries and memory cards or carry them around with me. If you want more capacity buy the 64GB iphone. And any music I need is available via iTunes Match and my photos go to photo stream. If you need to power up bring a charging cable or as I do I have a charging cable at home, at work, and in my car.

It's called open software for a reason. The manufacturers can do what they want and stick a warranty under that. Users can root and decide how they would like to customize their experience as much as they want.

Can an iPhone do the levels of customization with ease that the Android platform can? I don't think so.

Seiga
Oct 30, 2012, 11:38 AM
iOS has choice? Lololololololololol

Please enlighten me on these "choices" you have with you ever so heavily dumbed down and restricted operating system.

If would love to hear these choices as well.

Dr McKay
Oct 30, 2012, 12:45 PM
Firstly, don't confuse build quality with build materials.

That's what perhaps a good 90% of people on here do.

The Face
Oct 30, 2012, 12:50 PM
That's what perhaps a good 90% of people on here do.

These are the people who claim Samsung uses cheap plastic, yet they don't seem to realise the materials used to build the iPhone costs next to nothing.

G51989
Oct 30, 2012, 03:23 PM
I'd have to agree with an earlier post, Apple/every other mobile phone company in the world is just looking to pump out as many phones as they can using the cheapest materials available to them.
.

Fixed that for ya. Its called business.

Apple has set themselves apart with their machining capabilities.

Huh? I can make a iPhone case in my garage with my CNC no problem. There is nothing special about how an iPhone case is made.

----------

Because they're a shameless, uninspired tech company only concerned with reaping the greatest profits. At least, that's my impression of them. They don't seem to care about making quality devices or having good support. Their screens are cheap, the materials they use are cheap, it's all about $$$.

HTC is a far better brand, IMO.

Better not buy a rMBP, with its Samsung memory, Samsung SSD, and its Samsung Screen, cheap crap. ;)

----------

Well I don't know why you guys are still even here if you enjoy using cheap flimsy toys because the thinkpad offers far better value than the mba, the nexus7 is better and cheaper than the ipad mini, the note2 is better than the iphone5 and the nexus10 destroys the ipad4.

And plastic is cheap, unattractive and less durable than aluminum. You can use fancy words like polycarbonate unibody or military grade polymer. It doesn't matter plastic will always be prone to cracks, flexing and discoloration. You can argue that plastic is lighter and offers better signal reception. Well that didn't stop apple from making outstanding products. Don't blame it on the materials, blame it on the engineers that design these cheap flimsy toys.

You guys obviously don't appreciate outstanding craftsmanship so I don't see a point of staying on these forums.

Yep, NOTHING good is made of plastic.....

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/images/787index_20100520_a2a_10.jpg

( Yes, its mostly made of plastic with a couple of metal struts. )


:rolleyes: Just a bit more complicated than a phone, and just a BIT more durable. I'd love to see Apple build something like that. Oh wait, they can't.

Apple is a good company, but they arent the end all be all of everything.

There is nothing wrong with using durable plastics in phones.

zbarvian
Oct 30, 2012, 03:30 PM
Fixed that for ya. Its called business.



Huh? I can make a iPhone case in my garage with my CNC no problem. There is nothing special about how an iPhone case is made.

----------



Better not buy a rMBP, with its Samsung memory, Samsung SSD, and its Samsung Screen, cheap crap. ;)

----------



Yep, NOTHING good is made of plastic.....

Image (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/images/787index_20100520_a2a_10.jpg)

( Yes, its mostly made of plastic with a couple of metal struts. )


:rolleyes: Just a bit more complicated than a phone, and just a BIT more durable. I'd love to see Apple build something like that. Oh wait, they can't.

Apple is a good company, but they arent the end all be all of everything.

There is nothing wrong with using durable plastics in phones.

I agree with your last point. But the iPhone 5 is seemingly more durable than the GS3, is lighter, thinner, and looks nicer. So...what's your counterargument for using plastic?

There is an obvious distinction between durable plastic and fragile, cheap plastic. Unfortunately, it's the latter that Samsung employs on all its phones, and then coats them with that glossy sheen *shudders*

G51989
Oct 30, 2012, 03:39 PM
I agree with your last point. But the iPhone 5 is seemingly more durable than the GS3, is lighter, thinner, and looks nicer. So...what's your counterargument for using plastic?

Depends on the phone, and plastic. I have an old IPAQ, and a couple older feature phones from back in the day, and they can take more abuse than a GS3 or iphone.

The GS3's plastic is just to think for its own good, I have one, I would know, but I keep it in a case anyway so it doesn't matter at least for me.

Plenty of Plastic phones that are super durable.

There is an obvious distinction between durable plastic and fragile, cheap plastic. Unfortunately, it's the latter that Samsung employs on all its phones, and then coats them with that glossy sheen *shudders*

Ive dropped my old Samsung Android Phone a million times, never cracked, screen was plastic and never shattered.

You cant just look at the GS3 and say " all plastic is crap "

zbarvian
Oct 30, 2012, 03:42 PM
You cant just look at the GS3 and say " all plastic is crap "

Never did. Samsung is incessant with releasing plastic phones with ugly designs, though, and I've had a plastic Samsung phone too. It was horribly low quality.

smellysox8
Oct 30, 2012, 03:43 PM
Wouldn't be worth my time to educate a troll ;)[COLOR="#808080"]

----------

Is someone going to post a black pot and black kettle picture?

craftytony
Oct 30, 2012, 04:30 PM
Is someone going to post a black pot and black kettle picture?

Trolla lolla lola

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Fixed that for ya. Its called business.
There is nothing wrong with using durable plastics in phones.

There is probably nothing wrong with making a plastic rolex either...

----------

Typically people who state "Wouldn't be worth my time" are the ones that really can't state said argument.

And it's not a fandroid statement when you state obvious facts. I just don't think you have any quantitative arguments to support your cause.

or......it's not worth my time to educate a troll ;P

Seiga
Oct 30, 2012, 08:27 PM
Trolla lolla lola

----------



There is probably nothing wrong with making a plastic rolex either...

----------



or......it's not worth my time to educate a troll ;P

Technically you just contradicted yourself by responding to my post. You're already wasting your time with your response.

So I'm just going to say you can't provide an answer.

surjavarman
Oct 31, 2012, 06:29 AM
The iPad mini gets rave reviews right now. And thats only because its a thin, light and attractive design. Yet the nexus 7 has the better specs and more value. Apple knows how to please to crowd

This is one of those things where I think what the hell are they thinking over at Google and Samsung. "Lets make things from plastic and as cheap as possible and lets pump out as many of them as possible. That will win them over." WRONG!

zbarvian
Oct 31, 2012, 06:55 AM
The iPad mini gets rave reviews right now. And thats only because its a thin, light and attractive design. Yet the nexus 7 has the better specs and more value. Apple knows how to please to crowd

This is one of those things where I think what the hell are they thinking over at Google and Samsung. "Lets make things from plastic and as cheap as possible and lets pump out as many of them as possible. That will win them over." WRONG!

Specs don't matter nearly as much as the ecosystem in this case. All reviewers point toward the app selection as the main selling point.

Great build quality and some competent specs help.

Jibbajabba
Oct 31, 2012, 07:19 AM
Heh - until a couple of years ago - mobiles / cells were always made of plastic - never seen a metal / glass Nokia before :P

kiltedthrower
Oct 31, 2012, 07:28 AM
Well I don't know why you guys are still even here if you enjoy using cheap flimsy toys because the thinkpad offers far better value than the mba, the nexus7 is better and cheaper than the ipad mini, the note2 is better than the iphone5 and the nexus10 destroys the ipad4.

And plastic is cheap, unattractive and less durable than aluminum. You can use fancy words like polycarbonate unibody or military grade polymer. It doesn't matter plastic will always be prone to cracks, flexing and discoloration. You can argue that plastic is lighter and offers better signal reception. Well that didn't stop apple from making outstanding products. Don't blame it on the materials, blame it on the engineers that design these cheap flimsy toys.

You guys obviously don't appreciate outstanding craftsmanship so I don't see a point of staying on these forums.

Because it's a phone. Some of us don't look at our phones as asocial status.

craftytony
Oct 31, 2012, 07:40 AM
Technically you just contradicted yourself by responding to my post. You're already wasting your time with your response.

So I'm just going to say you can't provide an answer.

Technically I said, it wasn't worth explaining to you. Ridiculing you and seeing you get upset on the other hand is definitely worth my time :)

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Hot Damn! Why can't samesung make a phone as sexy as their dishwashers!?



http://www.365electrical.com/images/full/DW-FN320T.jpg

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Fixed that for ya. Its called business.

Huh? I can make a iPhone case in my garage with my CNC no problem. There is nothing special about how an iPhone case is made.[COLOR="#808080"]


Yes it is called business, and some companies decided to make profit by making a nicer product with better materials.

Who said anything about making a hack job iphone case? I'm talking about the iphone itself. Can you make an iphone in your garage?

cynics
Oct 31, 2012, 08:28 AM
Handgun as my avatar has a polymer frame which is notoriously durable. Whereas aluminum frame handguns are known for cracking. A lot of people will only buy steel or polymer and not consider aluminum. Just depends on type of plastic and and its application will determine which is more durable..

I just don't get why the aluminum back of the iPhone 5 is so magical. There is more aluminum in a soda can then on the phone. Devices have been using it for years. I was hoping we'd see liquid metal or something not as common as aluminum.

I don't have an S3 but from handling friends I don't feel like that's cheap plastic. Plastic yes, cheap no.....

diegoesk
Oct 31, 2012, 09:52 AM
Because they're a shameless, uninspired tech company only concerned with reaping the greatest profits. At least, that's my impression of them. They don't seem to care about making quality devices or having good support. Their screens are cheap, the materials they use are cheap, it's all about $$$.

HTC is a far better brand, IMO.

I think apple took a page out of their book with the iphone 5. Only thing, they suck at doing it lol (nicks and scratches)

Melab
Oct 31, 2012, 10:46 AM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic? I mean I like their specs and prices and android is a capable OS. But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass. Precise and durable.

I wouldn't even consider the ipad mini, ipad4 or iphone5 if they could just offer me a quality piece of hardware. They obviously got the tech and internals that is superior to tech from Apple.

Design culture, maybe. It is probably a factor of different things. There are appealing design materials apart from titanium and glass. Take a Droid 2, for example.

cynics
Oct 31, 2012, 10:48 AM
I think apple took a page out of their book with the iphone 5. Only thing, they suck at doing it lol (nicks and scratches)

I feel Apple has a similar approach. They make what looks and feels like a quality product but charge an outrageous amount for it.

There mobile devices aren't bad. But look at the iMac, it's expensive vs what you get and according to this forum (I was considering one) unreliable. Pages and pages of threads of people having hardware failures. It seems AppleCare is a must with them. But hey the design is beautiful I give it that.

zbarvian
Oct 31, 2012, 12:20 PM
I think apple took a page out of their book with the iphone 5. Only thing, they suck at doing it lol (nicks and scratches)

Riiggghhhttttt. The iPhone 5 is the best built product on the market, you won't find any nicks or scratches on mine.

diegoesk
Oct 31, 2012, 08:26 PM
Riiggghhhttttt. The iPhone 5 is the best built product on the market, you won't find any nicks or scratches on mine.

Wish I could say the same (I had the white one and it nicked when I took case off).

zbarvian
Oct 31, 2012, 08:45 PM
Wish I could say the same (I had the white one and it nicked when I took case off).

Magically?

No phone is indestructible.

diegoesk
Oct 31, 2012, 09:43 PM
Magically?

No phone is indestructible.

Not true. Iphone 4 and 4s are indestructible (unless you drop it, or place it in a pocket with keys.)

Vegastouch
Oct 31, 2012, 09:50 PM
I agree with your last point. But the iPhone 5 is seemingly more durable than the GS3, is lighter, thinner, and looks nicer. So...what's your counterargument for using plastic?

More durable based on what? Personally i dont care about phones being thinner. Too thin for me imo isnt a good thing. The GS3 is a pretty thin phone for its size and i put a Otterbox on it so how thin it originally is dont matter. Ill be getting a Nexus 4 which is a whole half a mm thicker. Oh the horrah!

Light is good but many here associate light with "feeling cheap".

There is an obvious distinction between durable plastic and fragile, cheap plastic. Unfortunately, it's the latter that Samsung employs on all its phones, and then coats them with that glossy sheen *shudders*

You dont know what your talking about. Regardless of what YOU think, their phones are built very well.

----------

The iPad mini gets rave reviews right now. And thats only because its a thin, light and attractive design. Yet the nexus 7 has the better specs and more value. Apple knows how to please to crowd

This is one of those things where I think what the hell are they thinking over at Google and Samsung. "Lets make things from plastic and as cheap as possible and lets pump out as many of them as possible. That will win them over." WRONG!

The Nexus 7 is selling 1 million a month right now.

zbarvian
Oct 31, 2012, 09:53 PM
More durable based on what? Personally i dont care about phones being thinner. Too thin for me imo isnt a good thing. The GS3 is a pretty thin phone for its size and i put a Otterbox on it so how thin it originally is dont matter. Ill be getting a Nexus 4 which is a whole half a mm thicker. Oh the horrah!

Light is good but many here associate light with "feeling cheap".



You dont know what your talking about. Regardless of what YOU think, their phones are built very well.

----------



The Nexus 7 is selling 1 million a month right now.

I've owned a Samsung feature phone (3 years ago) and a Samsung Android phone for a short time (~1.5 years ago). They are the reason I'll never buy another plastic Samsung phone again.

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Not true. Iphone 4 and 4s are indestructible (unless you drop it, or place it in a pocket with keys.)

Funny, because the Nexus 4 shares the same weakness.

Vegastouch
Oct 31, 2012, 10:03 PM
Not true. Iphone 4 and 4s are indestructible (unless you drop it, or place it in a pocket with keys.)

I guy i work with dropped his 4S on the floor yesterday from a height of a foot and a half and the back shattered.

----------

I've owned a Samsung feature phone (3 years ago) and a Samsung Android phone for a short time (~1.5 years ago). They are the reason I'll never buy another plastic Samsung phone again.

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Funny, because the Nexus 4 shares the same weakness.

Suit yourself i dont care what phone you use. Doesnt mean everyone shares your repetitive opinion on the matter. The 4S is heavy with fragile glass. How the hec is that being a well built phone?

Seems to me it is in the eye of the beholding Apple fan where nothing is flawed. Its nice looking, ill give ya that but Suddenly lighter is better and 4" is now the perfect screen size from the perfect size of 3.5" :rolleyes:

The N4 isnt even out yet and your telling us its weakness?

G51989
Nov 1, 2012, 12:24 AM
Heh - until a couple of years ago - mobiles / cells were always made of plastic - never seen a metal / glass Nokia before :P

And, I've never seen a plastic nokia, or any older phone, My old Blackberries/Windows Mobile/PALMs shatter when you drop them. :)

Alot of new phones are to fragile compared to the old ones. This inculdes the IP5, yay! You can drop it from 6 feet a few times before it breaks, I dropped my HP IPAQ off second story decks before, like more than once, never once broke, somehow. My NGAGE QD ( dont judge ), was the same way, most of the older phones, you could jam them in your pocket, full of change and keys, drop them, generally not take very good care of them, and failures were VERY rare.

----------



Yes it is called business, and some companies decided to make profit by making a nicer product with better materials.

Who said anything about making a hack job iphone case? I'm talking about the iphone itself. Can you make an iphone in your garage?

Alunium is no better than PolyCarbonate when it comes to a phone for durability. Many of my older Polycarbonate/plastic phones of old are FAR more durable than an iPhone.

And you said Apple has some kind of amazing machining, they don't. There is NOTHING special about how an iPhone CASE is made. At all, gimmie the exact measurements and a block of ****** aluminum and my CNC can cut one out for you. And its far from prescience, you want pricense maching? Look at Jet Engines, or something as simple as the engine in your car, has MUCH tighter tolerances than an iPhone.

----------

Riiggghhhttttt. The iPhone 5 is the best built product on the market, you won't find any nicks or scratches on mine.

Best built phone? Its the best looking imo, but its not the most durable phone, not at all.

----------

Magically?

No phone is indestructible.

This phone is going into production rather soon, and it pretty much is. Considering you can drive a car over it, throw it off a 5 story building, or throw it in a lake.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2012/01/9463a05b06a98854c89a201cc2e26ab9.jpg

Stuntman06
Nov 1, 2012, 02:48 PM
And, I've never seen a plastic nokia, or any older phone, My old Blackberries/Windows Mobile/PALMs shatter when you drop them. :)

Alot of new phones are to fragile compared to the old ones. This inculdes the IP5, yay! You can drop it from 6 feet a few times before it breaks, I dropped my HP IPAQ off second story decks before, like more than once, never once broke, somehow. My NGAGE QD ( dont judge ), was the same way, most of the older phones, you could jam them in your pocket, full of change and keys, drop them, generally not take very good care of them, and failures were VERY rare.

I had 2 plastic Nokia phones: 6126 and N97. The 6126 was the best flip phone ever. Never had an issue with it. I don't recall dropping it, so I don't know its durability. The N97 was the worst smartphone ever. However, it really took a beating. I dropped it multiple times. The worse was when I was going down some stairs and I dropped it. It fell 10 feet onto a cement floor. Back cover and battery went flying. When I put it back together, it still worked.

sc4rf4c3
Nov 1, 2012, 03:05 PM
The iPhone can be made with wood and have nails sticking out and it would still be better than any Android phones made with titanium and diamond.

zbarvian
Nov 1, 2012, 03:17 PM
And, I've never seen a plastic nokia, or any older phone, My old Blackberries/Windows Mobile/PALMs shatter when you drop them. :)

Alot of new phones are to fragile compared to the old ones. This inculdes the IP5, yay! You can drop it from 6 feet a few times before it breaks, I dropped my HP IPAQ off second story decks before, like more than once, never once broke, somehow. My NGAGE QD ( dont judge ), was the same way, most of the older phones, you could jam them in your pocket, full of change and keys, drop them, generally not take very good care of them, and failures were VERY rare.

----------



Alunium is no better than PolyCarbonate when it comes to a phone for durability. Many of my older Polycarbonate/plastic phones of old are FAR more durable than an iPhone.

And you said Apple has some kind of amazing machining, they don't. There is NOTHING special about how an iPhone CASE is made. At all, gimmie the exact measurements and a block of ****** aluminum and my CNC can cut one out for you. And its far from prescience, you want pricense maching? Look at Jet Engines, or something as simple as the engine in your car, has MUCH tighter tolerances than an iPhone.

----------



Best built phone? Its the best looking imo, but its not the most durable phone, not at all.

----------



This phone is going into production rather soon, and it pretty much is. Considering you can drive a car over it, throw it off a 5 story building, or throw it in a lake.

Image (http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2012/01/9463a05b06a98854c89a201cc2e26ab9.jpg)

Like anyone here is going to carry that thing around.

G51989
Nov 1, 2012, 03:37 PM
Like anyone here is going to carry that thing around.

Well, people who care about a phone being durable will.

The military already uses phones ( some smart, some dumb ) that are very like that one.

There are many applications were looks dont matter. If I were to take an iPhone or GS3 camping with me, they wouldnt come back alive.

----------

Like anyone here is going to carry that thing around.

Well, people who care about a phone being durable will.

The military already uses phones ( some smart, some dumb ) that are very like that one.

There are many applications were looks dont matter. If I were to take an iPhone or GS3 camping with me, they wouldnt come back alive.

I'd personally rather carry a phone that you can run over with a car, than a phone that gets damanged by coins.

dmelgar
Nov 1, 2012, 03:47 PM
Because..,

Samsungs business model is to come out with the cheapest product they can while trying to make it sound as impressive as possible.
They do that by making big check lists to make it sound like it has lots of features. Any spec someone will pay attention to.
They try to move ahead by copying successful designs. This is not debatable. The only debate is if that's ok to do or if its ethically wrong.
They sell at a lower profit margin, employing cheap labor worldwide including for design.
They try to iterate quickly to try everything and see what works including random features and product sizes.
They are ethically challenged. See their CEOs conviction on corruption that was somehow pardoned.

spinedoc77
Nov 1, 2012, 03:54 PM
Because..,

Samsungs business model is to come out with the cheapest product they can while trying to make it sound as impressive as possible.
They do that by making big check lists to make it sound like it has lots of features. Any spec someone will pay attention to.
They try to move ahead by copying successful designs. This is not debatable. The only debate is if that's ok to do or if its ethically wrong.
They sell at a lower profit margin, employing cheap labor worldwide including for design.
They try to iterate quickly to try everything and see what works including random features and product sizes.
They are ethically challenged. See their CEOs conviction on corruption that was somehow pardoned.


Not defending Samsung here, but most of those things can be said about Apple. My only point is wtf cares?

dmelgar
Nov 1, 2012, 04:19 PM
Not defending Samsung here, but most of those things can be said about Apple. My only point is wtf cares?

Those things cannot be said of apple. Apple is the opposite, apparently you haven't bought an apple product.

Apple doesn't focus on big deceptive lists of features. The features they include they strive to do well. Apple tries to avoid specs. Their focus is on how the device can help the user, the end result, with best usability. Specs confuse the issue since it isn't directly related to the user experience. You can have a stuttering experience on a high powered android device and a smooth experience on a much slower device if it is architected well and efficiently implemented.

Apple does not strive for thin profit margins. They strive to do premium products which often carry higher prices. However, their prices are usually competitive is comparing similar marterials.

Etc.

spinedoc77
Nov 1, 2012, 04:25 PM
Those things cannot be said of apple. Apple is the opposite, apparently you haven't bought an apple product.

Apple doesn't focus on big deceptive lists of features. The features they include they strive to do well. Apple tries to avoid specs. Their focus is on how the device can help the user, the end result, with best usability. Specs confuse the issue since it isn't directly related to the user experience. You can have a stuttering experience on a high powered android device and a smooth experience on a much slower device if it is architected well and efficiently implemented.

Apple does not strive for thin profit margins. They strive to do premium products which often carry higher prices. However, their prices are usually competitive is comparing similar marterials.

Etc.

I have plenty of Apple products. I don't consider something cheap because the CEO is corrupt, or because the CEO abandoned his daughter and made it a point not to donate to charity for example. I have owned plenty of "premium" Apple products which stopped working or had issues, phones, tablets, laptops, just yesterday my 1 year old Superdrive stopped taking in disks mysteriously for some reason, becoming one big "premium" paper weight. I've also owned a lot of "cheap" Samsung plastic products and they fail with about the same frequency as Apple products do.

Apple has a higher profit margin because it also employs foreign slave labor, and because it markets its products as "premium" and has successfully perpetuated this marketing to the common consumer. As for Apple avoiding specs, that's hilarious as it's usually there main center point, especially when they refresh product lines. What was the big sell for the ipad4 versus the ipad3 for example? Yeah I'll give you a hint, take my ipad3 and see about that "stuttering experience".

Which products has Samsung had a "focus on big deceptive lists of features"? I'm curious, which model and/or deceptive feature?

Once again I'm not defending Samsung at all, but at the same time I'm not a fanboy of one company who takes my money, I will buy the best product whether it's from Apple or Samsung, not because it's from them but because it's the best product.

TheHateMachine
Nov 1, 2012, 04:51 PM
Good lord, this thread is full of people spouting their opinion as fact and calling anyone who disagrees an idiot essentially. Sadfully I see more diehard Apple boys being more militant.

We get it you like this material over the other. That is your opinion and some people disagree with you. *Gasp* People like different things! Too many people are confusing build quality and build materials here too. It is really ridiculous.

Oh yea and as for the "Aluminum is not a cheap material and is premium" comment. We drink fluids from Aluminum containers and then just throw them away after they are done. So much for Aluminum not being a cheap material huh?

smellysox8
Nov 1, 2012, 04:54 PM
The real question are all Apple phones made from fragile glass and aluminum? People here keep saying how "premium" their iPhones feel, yet they slap on a plastic/rubber $10 case.

TheHateMachine
Nov 1, 2012, 05:01 PM
Like anyone here is going to carry that thing around.

Why wouldn't they? If their line of work would introduce a lot of shock, vibration and the potential of water damage it would seem smart to carry that device if they wanted a smart phone without risking it on the job.

I'm glad you have this gargantuan amount of cranial power to go beyond the capabilities of our normal human brains to read everyone in the world's mind to discern that no one will ever need this. What are you doing on Macrumors... shouldn't you be doing something for the good of humanity with your vast and awesome powers??

smellysox8
Nov 1, 2012, 05:02 PM
Those things cannot be said of apple. Apple is the opposite, apparently you haven't bought an apple product.

Apple doesn't focus on big deceptive lists of features. The features they include they strive to do well. Apple tries to avoid specs. Their focus is on how the device can help the user, the end result, with best usability. Specs confuse the issue since it isn't directly related to the user experience. You can have a stuttering experience on a high powered android device and a smooth experience on a much slower device if it is architected well and efficiently implemented.

Apple does not strive for thin profit margins. They strive to do premium products which often carry higher prices. However, their prices are usually competitive is comparing similar marterials.

Etc.
Maps.

TheHateMachine
Nov 1, 2012, 05:04 PM
Because..,

Samsungs business model is to come out with the cheapest product they can while trying to make it sound as impressive as possible.
They do that by making big check lists to make it sound like it has lots of features. Any spec someone will pay attention to.
They try to move ahead by copying successful designs. This is not debatable. The only debate is if that's ok to do or if its ethically wrong.
They sell at a lower profit margin, employing cheap labor worldwide including for design.
They try to iterate quickly to try everything and see what works including random features and product sizes.
They are ethically challenged. See their CEOs conviction on corruption that was somehow pardoned.


Funny how some of these points you make can be interchanged with Apple.

Lindenhurst
Nov 1, 2012, 07:14 PM
Is it me or are many here in denial over Apple not being "all that" anymore?

Times do change and the company on top today may not be on top tomorrow. That's just the way it is.

I watch the new Iphone being introduced on a platform coming out of the floor and I say, "meh". I see the new Imac being very thin and I compare it to the many new windows based touch screen PC's being introduced and I say the same thing.

I have a housep full of Apple products such as Ipads, Ipods, Iphones a MacBook and an Imac, and after a few years of using Apple products, I am starting to have more of an interest in products other than Apple.
I'm sure I am not the only one. I purchased my 3 sons MacBook Air's for school and then I purchased myself a Samsung Series 9 laptop, and all of us prefer the Samsung.

I really feel like Apple was " the innovator" for a good few years but now I feel as if they are releasing products with marginal upgrades assuming that the masses will keep buying them. The coolness factor is fading, and so is the stockprice. Fast forward to a year from now and I feel that "left for dead" Microsoft will once again regain it's mojo.
We'll see.

Vegastouch
Nov 1, 2012, 08:56 PM
Those things cannot be said of apple. Apple is the opposite, apparently you haven't bought an apple product.

Apple doesn't focus on big deceptive lists of features. The features they include they strive to do well. Apple tries to avoid specs. Their focus is on how the device can help the user, the end result, with best usability. Specs confuse the issue since it isn't directly related to the user experience. You can have a stuttering experience on a high powered android device and a smooth experience on a much slower device if it is architected well and efficiently implemented.

Apple does not strive for thin profit margins. They strive to do premium products which often carry higher prices. However, their prices are usually competitive is comparing similar marterials.

Etc.

What deceptive features are you talking about? Please list those for us.

As for Apple they sure as hell do, do some of those things.

The got busted for the sweat shops they were using to have their phones made while paying them next to nothing. Their Maps is in shambles and released it and then appologized to the public. They didnt give you basic features out of the gate til many complained about it so please spare us the "they want to give you the best user experience" crap.

I dont see how selling at a lower profit margin is a bad thing. They are still making millions. If you want to give Apple more profits, ...who is the dummy? Just keep paying those higher prices for something that doesnt do as much. Thats your prerogotive.
And im sorry, an aluminum back is not a premium material.

Seems you are a bit clouded by Apple envy.

rrl
Nov 1, 2012, 10:44 PM
Apple fanbois make me want to hurl.

wedouglas
Nov 1, 2012, 11:39 PM
Will be funny when Apple starts using carbon fiber and everyone starts saying how awesome the plastic is on Apple products.

Vegastouch
Nov 2, 2012, 12:44 AM
Will be funny when Apple starts using carbon fiber and everyone starts saying how awesome the plastic is on Apple products.

If it gets NFC, thats exactly what will happen.

marc11
Nov 2, 2012, 12:50 AM
If it gets NFC, thats exactly what will happen.

Bingo, I can read it in the Verge now "The plastic used for the (insert idevice name here) is amazing, it enables what Apple is calling CloseContact (NFC to the rest of the world); CloseContact is like nothing before, tap your device to pay for things, amazing, only Apple could bring such inovation! But the plastic feels good in your hands, warm and solid. Unlike the aluminum and glass products, which are cold and slippery; Apple has done an amazing job with their plastic selection. It feels similar to the dashboard in my Toyota Corolla, only much much more cool and amazing"

3bs
Nov 2, 2012, 12:54 AM
Bingo, I can read it in the Verge now "The plastic used for the (insert idevice name here) is amazing, it enables what Apple is calling CloseContact (NFC to the rest of the world); CloseContact is like nothing before, tap your device to pay for things, amazing, only Apple could bring such inovation! But the plastic feels good in your hands, warm and solid. Unlike the aluminum and glass products, which are cold and slippery; Apple has done an amazing job with their plastic selection. It feels similar to the dashboard in my Toyota Corolla, only much much more cool and amazing"

Made me chuckle.

ercsliberty
Nov 2, 2012, 12:55 AM
samsung plastic/android
apple glass/metal/ios
simple, now choose

marc11
Nov 2, 2012, 12:55 AM
Made me chuckle.

I love sitting at work with nothing to do on a Friday afternoon and think of this crap up. I actually like the name CloseContact for NFC, you read it here first folks!

Purant
Nov 2, 2012, 12:59 AM
You can have a stuttering experience on a high powered android device and a smooth experience on a much slower device if it is architected well and efficiently implemented.


Right...

My iPhone 4 is stuttering like hell on iOS 6, so...

flameproof
Nov 2, 2012, 10:24 PM
Right...

My iPhone 4 is stuttering like hell on iOS 6, so...

Specially if the camera is open in the background, then my iPhone 4 lags as hell.

Back on topic, a friend in a IIIrd world country ask me to buy them as Samsung S3 (they are NFC developers) and I had to test it to make sure it works and ain't SIM Locked.

To me it didn't felt cheap. Of course compare to the iPhone 4 it's much lighter and hence feels less value. But since the iPhone 5 is out the core Apple supporters are basically confused since suddenly less weight is better.

The rear cover, when taken off, does feel very fragile and feels a bit like those covers that are on top of McDonalds drink cups. But only when you hold it by itself, fixed to S3 you wouldn't notice.

Apollo 13
Nov 2, 2012, 11:18 PM
my iphone 4 before I sold it ran smooth in io6 but I also didn't jailbreak it. My GF phones runs buttery smooth and she has a 4 with io6.

G51989
Nov 3, 2012, 12:17 AM
samsung plastic/android
apple glass/metal/ios
simple, now choose

Samsung Plastic, goes in a case. Doesn't matter/ Android is miles ahead of iOS, iOS has failed to catch up to Android and Windows Phone, even BB 10 looks miles ahead of iOS, why do you think Apple fired the iOS team leader?

Apple glass shatters when dropped to much, put it in a case./ iOS is outdated, with no features.

I pick Samsung.

SlCKB0Y
Nov 3, 2012, 12:31 AM
...Their screens are cheap...

That's interesting, because Samsung are generally considered to be the world leader in screen technology. It's most likely why Apple have used their screens in pretty much every iOS and Mac device which has a display going back years.

Also interesting to note is that when the same Apple device sources screens from different suppliers (Eg, Samsung and LG in the Macbook Air), the Samsung variant was almost always considered superior, with people going so far as to exchange their Apple product until they got one with a Samsung screen...

But then we all know that you don't let those pesky things called "facts" get in the way of your posts.

JoeG4
Nov 3, 2012, 12:34 AM
Why are all Apples made from crappy aluminum that scratches or chips when you so much as blink at it?

SlCKB0Y
Nov 3, 2012, 12:44 AM
Apple tries to avoid specs. Their focus is on how the device can help the user

I've watched pretty much every keynote every given by Steve Jobs on youtube, going back to 1996-7. He MASSIVELY focused on specs, but only when Apple's product had better specs than the competition.

When the Apple product being shown did not have better specs, the keynote is conspicuously devoid of spec information and instead focused on usability or some other aspect.

Anyone who has seen a decent amount of these videos, this is, people who can make an informed comment on this subject (which clearly isn't you), will attest to this. It's just salesmanship 101.

F123D
Nov 3, 2012, 12:49 AM
But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass. Precise and durable.



Because it'll look like this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-X8slxO1Gh4o/UIWeFHFEqOI/AAAAAAAAAKw/3dhg31w7Nwk/s1600/new-1.jpg

You also could potentially lose the option for removal battery/micro sd card.

Seiga
Nov 3, 2012, 02:29 AM
samsung plastic/android
apple glass/metal/ios
simple, now choose

Samsung... Obviously... Metal causes interference to the radios. Plastic causes no radio interference.

daveathall
Nov 3, 2012, 02:32 AM
Specially if the camera is open in the background, then my iPhone 4 lags as hell.

Back on topic, a friend in a IIIrd world country ask me to buy them as Samsung S3 (they are NFC developers) and I had to test it to make sure it works and ain't SIM Locked.

To me it didn't felt cheap. Of course compare to the iPhone 4 it's much lighter and hence feels less value. But since the iPhone 5 is out the core Apple supporters are basically confused since suddenly less weight is better.

The rear cover, when taken off, does feel very fragile and feels a bit like those covers that are on top of McDonalds drink cups. But only when you hold it by itself, fixed to S3 you wouldn't notice.

I agree, this, for me, sums it up perfectly.

flameproof
Nov 3, 2012, 03:16 AM
Why are all Apples made from crappy aluminum that scratches or chips when you so much as blink at it?

I am Apple neutral, certainly not a fanboy, I have quite a lot of complains about my iPhone 4 - but the build quality is certainly very good. I like the design too.

I guess you refer to the iPhone 5... OK, I get your point. I still wonder why that happens. I have an old HTC HD2, it's coffee brown aluminum too, now 3 years old, roughly treated, still no visible aluminum to see.

thewitt
Nov 3, 2012, 05:02 AM
Price.

Plastic is 20% of the cost in tooling and 10% of the cost in manufacturing compared to aluminum and glass.

Throw Out
Nov 3, 2012, 05:58 AM
My Galaxy S3 is nicely built. No complains, and does not look cheap.

spinedoc77
Nov 3, 2012, 06:44 AM
I wonder why the iphone 5 has so many problems with scratches and stuff. I have a LOT of black anodized stuff on my motorcycle, with all the abuse they get I rarely see scratches or scuffs on them.

3bs
Nov 3, 2012, 07:07 AM
I wonder why the iphone 5 has so many problems with scratches and stuff. I have a LOT of black anodized stuff on my motorcycle, with all the abuse they get I rarely see scratches or scuffs on them.

What do your ride if you don't mind me asking?

spinedoc77
Nov 3, 2012, 09:19 AM
What do your ride if you don't mind me asking?

Vrod

3bs
Nov 3, 2012, 09:23 AM
Vrod

That's one sweet looking bike!

kdarling
Nov 3, 2012, 09:37 AM
To me (the S3) didn't felt cheap. Of course compare to the iPhone 4 it's much lighter and hence feels less value. But since the iPhone 5 is out the core Apple supporters are basically confused since suddenly less weight is better.

You know, it's funny...

When I was growing up, everything weighed a ton, being made of wood and metal and using glass electron tubes.

Then transistors came out, and we were all excited about the reduction in size and weight. It was the dawn of the Space Age, and we were in it!

Now, decades later, some people think that more weight = good. Weird.

Now if it were made of gold, then yeah :)

Rodster
Nov 3, 2012, 09:41 AM
You know, it's funny...

When I was growing up, everything weighed a ton, made of wood and metal and using glass electron tubes.

Then transistors came out, we were all excited about the reduction in size and weight. It was the Atomic Space Age, man, and we were in it!

Now, decades later, some people think that more weight = good. Weird.

Now if it were made of gold, then yeah :)

Yeah I can relate. I got into the computer field in the early 80's. All of the computers I serviced were either in data centers or confined to their own climate controlled room. Way back when where a 10GB CDC disk drive was magic and was the size of a desk. When the mid 80's showed up all of those huge disk drives were being replaced by Winchester drives which you could hold in your hands.

Vegastouch
Nov 3, 2012, 12:10 PM
Vrod

Nice Bike man.

JoeG4
Nov 3, 2012, 03:55 PM
I am Apple neutral, certainly not a fanboy, I have quite a lot of complains about my iPhone 4 - but the build quality is certainly very good. I like the design too.

I guess you refer to the iPhone 5... OK, I get your point. I still wonder why that happens. I have an old HTC HD2, it's coffee brown aluminum too, now 3 years old, roughly treated, still no visible aluminum to see.

I think that's because Apple uses a softer alloy of aluminum than other companies do. There may be reasons for it (perhaps thermal expansion or something? cost? I dunno). Of course, it may just be cheaper that way xD

Mattjeff
Nov 4, 2012, 06:54 AM
The glass I can see, I think thats a premium material that weighs my opinion on a product but as far as the body... not as important. As long as it helps or does not hinder (titanium) the use of the product then its fine. I always put a small case on my phone anyways. I have a beautiful new iphone 5 but its in a $20 rubbery black case with green trim.

spinedoc77
Nov 4, 2012, 10:51 AM
That's one sweet looking bike!

Thanks =)

----------

Nice Bike man.

Thanks

The Face
Nov 4, 2012, 10:55 AM
Why is the iPhone made from cheap glass and cheap aluminum? See, I can make the same argument for Apple too.

Also, anyone who claims the iPhone is made from expensive premium materials is kidding themselves.

nebo1ss
Nov 4, 2012, 11:15 AM
I could not be bothered to read the whole thread so not sure if someone already corrected the "Cheap Plastic" issue. Samsung phones are not made of cheap plastic this is a misconception that is Perpetuated on this forum.

They are in fact made of Polycarbonate.

See here for a description of Polycarbonate.

http://www.livsupplies.co.uk/Polycarbonate.html

onthecouchagain
Nov 4, 2012, 12:03 PM
Why is the iPhone made from cheap glass and cheap aluminum? See, I can make the same argument for Apple too.

Also, anyone who claims the iPhone is made from expensive premium materials is kidding themselves.

But... it costs so much money. It must be premium!

The Face
Nov 4, 2012, 12:27 PM
But... it costs so much money. It must be premium!I know! It has nothing to do with the 400 profit Apple make on every iPhone 5, it still must be premium!

Tarzanman
Sep 10, 2013, 07:11 PM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic? I mean I like their specs and prices and android is a capable OS. But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass. Precise and durable.

I wouldn't even consider the ipad mini, ipad4 or iphone5 if they could just offer me a quality piece of hardware. They obviously got the tech and internals that is superior to tech from Apple.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh man... I wonder what you think about cheap plastic now... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

surjavarman
Sep 10, 2013, 07:36 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh man... I wonder what you think about cheap plastic now... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Same opinion. I hate plastic and the iphone 5c is an abomination. I would never buy it. I would buy the iphone 5s instead if I was in the market.

All samsungs are made from cheap plastic but not all iphones are made from cheap plastic. So no you didn't win.

linkgx1
Sep 10, 2013, 07:40 PM
From what I'm hearing with the reviews, the plastic seems more durable than that of Samsung and LG. Who knows though. Thread started saved his has by saying 'cheap plastic'.

Good save!:D

Vegastouch
Sep 10, 2013, 10:53 PM
From what I'm hearing with the reviews, the plastic seems more durable than that of Samsung and LG. Who knows though. Thread started saved his has by saying 'cheap plastic'.

Good save!:D

Polycarbonate is pretty durable. I've never broken my Samsung phones and I really dislike aluminum backs. Just too damn slippery and I drop them a lot more often.

JobsGang
Sep 10, 2013, 11:29 PM
All plastic phones aren't the same.Htc one x,lumia phones are gorgeous phones.From the hands on reviews iphone 5c feels preety good in hand.

Vetvito
Sep 10, 2013, 11:31 PM
To keep costs low. That's all.

mclld
Sep 11, 2013, 10:29 AM
I actually prefer the plastic build on electronics. I do not buy electronics for fashion or because they look "cool"

Jibbajabba
Sep 11, 2013, 11:14 AM
Same opinion. I hate plastic and the iphone 5c is an abomination. I would never buy it. I would buy the iphone 5s instead if I was in the market.

All samsungs are made from cheap plastic but not all iphones are made from cheap plastic. So no you didn't win.

Just on the train and two guys here at the same table have an iPhone 5 .. guess what they have .. a cheap plastic case around it .. thank God for premium materials lol

KentuckyHouse
Sep 11, 2013, 12:15 PM
From what I'm hearing with the reviews, the plastic seems more durable than that of Samsung and LG. Who knows though. Thread started saved his has by saying 'cheap plastic'.

Good save!:D

Of course it's more durable! It's made by Apple, using only the finest polycarbonates in the land!*

:rolleyes:

/s














*And apparently, unicorn &%$# judging by those colors

mellofello
Sep 11, 2013, 06:09 PM
Didn't read the whole thread so if this was mentioned before I apologize. Samsungs greatest asset for me is the removable plastic back. Having replaceable batteries, and removable storage is a godsend if you travel like I do. Spending long hours flying international, and sometimes spending days on the road without reliable charging available. I have 3 batteries, at 100% when I leave and that will give me 3 days of GPSing, emailing etc.

When I had the iphone there where multiple times where I was sidetracked for hours waiting for my phone to charge.

Also being able to shoot with my DSLR, removing sd card, and instantly being able to edit, and upload shots allowed me to leave my laptop at home last trip.

The fastest way for samsung to lose me as a customer is to focus on fashion over function, and make their phones unibody without removable batteries.

Good on them for making such usefull plastic devices

This will save your life one day

http://redwhitemobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/100-original-samsung-galaxy-note-2-ii-battery-desktop-dock-charger-junelaw-1210-19-junelaw@5.jpg

fredaroony
Sep 11, 2013, 09:59 PM
Same opinion. I hate plastic and the iphone 5c is an abomination. I would never buy it. I would buy the iphone 5s instead if I was in the market.

All samsungs are made from cheap plastic but not all iphones are made from cheap plastic. So no you didn't win.

You didn't win simply because you are wrong....

linkgx1
Sep 11, 2013, 10:05 PM
Of course it's more durable! It's made by Apple, using only the finest polycarbonates in the land!*

:rolleyes:

/s














*And apparently, unicorn &%$# judging by those colors
I was only joking...

KentuckyHouse
Sep 11, 2013, 10:17 PM
I was only joking...

Oh, I know. I was just being sarcastic. Sorry if you thought I was being serious.

Goratrix
Sep 12, 2013, 05:30 AM
Why do people think that cramming components all glued together into a sealed non-repairable enclosure made of fragile glass or scratchable aluminium equals great engineering? For me, this is great engineering:

zm4f2XjQLAM

The-Real-Deal82
Sep 12, 2013, 06:27 AM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic? I mean I like their specs and prices and android is a capable OS. But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass. Precise and durable.

I wouldn't even consider the ipad mini, ipad4 or iphone5 if they could just offer me a quality piece of hardware. They obviously got the tech and internals that is superior to tech from Apple.
There is no denying the specs of the high end Android devices have a more impressive list than anything Apple have released.

I think it is a credit to Apple that they are able to focus more on software optimisation on devices that are less tech demanding. This is why Android boasts eye bulgingly good tech specs but focuses less on premium product design, whereas Apple have a premium feel to the device and less thirsty software. Both serve the market and satisfy the needs of the consumer rather well. Is one superior than the other? No. It is always subjective to the individuals needs.

ceva321
Sep 14, 2013, 07:31 AM
Whoops. Glass looks nice. Anyway, plastic > metal if a case is used. I think many of us will use a case since protecting the phone for reselling or long term use is more important than the looks (some may disagree). The Nexus 7 looks great in plastic and that comes to show you that design means more than material. Plus with the design techniques we have now, we can make plastic look like metal (i think). So if you dont feel like your tech is less valuable without the metal, plastic is fine.

----------



You are a winner. I'm in the same boat. Give me functionality over "premium feel." My case for my ipad feels more premium than my ipad without it (and it cost $30).

Which case do you own?

Timely7
Sep 14, 2013, 10:37 AM
Well now they've gone with the stitching leather back.... Ugly

Michael Goff
Sep 14, 2013, 10:41 AM
Define "cheap" plastic.

F123D
Sep 14, 2013, 01:00 PM
Well now they've gone with the stitching leather back.... Ugly

Speaking of ugly..

http://regmedia.co.uk/2013/09/10/iphone_5c.jpg

iEnvy
Sep 14, 2013, 03:01 PM
Why do people think that cramming components all glued together into a sealed non-repairable enclosure made of fragile glass or scratchable aluminium equals great engineering?

Why do people think throwing similar parts from last year in a funky plastic enclosure equals great engineering? See? The argument can go both ways which makes it irrelevant. :p

Besides, great engineering goes beyond hardware. I believe iOS software optimization is much better than Android. Not saying Android is bad at all considering I'm going to possibly purchase the Nexus 5.

linkgx1
Sep 14, 2013, 05:41 PM
Oh, I know. I was just being sarcastic. Sorry if you thought I was being serious.

No, I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions. I just saw the little [ :rolleyes:] and thought I made a boo boo. I'm good!:D Apologies are rare 'round these parts!

KentuckyHouse
Sep 14, 2013, 05:42 PM
No, I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions. I just saw the little [ :rolleyes:] and thought I made a boo boo. I'm good!:D Apologies are rare 'round these parts!

:D:thumbup:

hashholly
Sep 14, 2013, 07:08 PM
As sexy as I think the whole glass back / glass + aluminum back are, I would trade my iPhone 5 for a 5C if I could, considering the 5 has to be case kept are your gona have a bad time. It would be nice to go caseless and a good plastic backing would afford me that oppurtunity.

oplix
Sep 14, 2013, 07:44 PM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic? I mean I like their specs and prices and android is a capable OS. But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass. Precise and durable.

I wouldn't even consider the ipad mini, ipad4 or iphone5 if they could just offer me a quality piece of hardware. They obviously got the tech and internals that is superior to tech from Apple.

It's hard to create a desirable profit margin when using top of the line hardware and materials at the same time. HTC knows this and recently laid off 20% of it's employees.

There is a lot more depth to running a business than making you happy.

thehustleman
Sep 14, 2013, 07:53 PM
Why are all samsung products made from cheap plastic? I mean I like their specs and prices and android is a capable OS. But why can't they just make a diamond cut titanium/magnesium/aluminum unibody fused seamlessly with glass. Precise and durable.

I wouldn't even consider the ipad mini, ipad4 or iphone5 if they could just offer me a quality piece of hardware. They obviously got the tech and internals that is superior to tech from Apple.

Actually the plastic is more durable.

What are the cases we put our phones in made out of?

PLASTIC

surjavarman
Sep 14, 2013, 08:30 PM
Actually the plastic is more durable.

What are the cases we put our phones in made out of?

PLASTIC

Actually no its not. Aluminum is stronger and more durable than plastic. Is it more prone to chipping? Maybe, but these chips don't compromise the structural integrity of the phone. I have never seen a car made out of polycarbonate but I did see a car fully made out of aluminum.

And I don't even use cases so don't get me there. But if you must. Most cases (not all!) are made out of plastic for economic reasons. If you think they offer any protection then you are wrong. They might possibly protect the phone against scratches but that is sometimes also a myth as the case itself might scratch the phone.

appledes7
Sep 14, 2013, 09:01 PM
Actually no its not. Aluminum is stronger and more durable than plastic. Is it more prone to chipping? Maybe, but these chips don't compromise the structural integrity of the phone. I have never seen a car made out of polycarbonate but I did see a car fully made out of aluminum.

And I don't even use cases so don't get me there. But if you must. Most cases (not all!) are made out of plastic for economic reasons. If you think they offer any protection then you are wrong. They might possibly protect the phone against scratches but that is sometimes also a myth as the case itself might scratch the phone.

Totally agree with this. You can find cases made out of different types of metal, but they are typically going to cost more than a plastic one.

When I had my 3GS, the plastic on the back towards the top was cracking. It cracked on my brothers too. Also around the dock at the bottom. A lot of people had their plastic start to crack. You won't get cracks with aluminum. You can get scratches, just like you can with plastic. And in some cases dents. But if you do something to dent aluminum, that same force would likely have done a lot worse to plastic.

My dad dropped a metal book holster thing onto his MBP. It was a pretty big drop too. It made a dent on the top of the casing. It didn't affect the screen, didn't crack open the casing, or anything like that. Just an indention. If he didn't have a MBP and instead had just some generic laptop made with generic plastic, it would have done a lot worse.

joshwithachance
Sep 14, 2013, 09:19 PM
The Note 3 is a step in the right direction, but Sammy's build materials are just not up to par in my opinion. But hey, profit margins.