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teknikal90
Oct 31, 2012, 05:14 PM
Hi all,

Got a 4S here and am thinking to upgrade to the 5S next year. That's the plan anyway.
Until I saw the Jelly Bean 4.2 Video and saw how much more innovation the other side of the camp has!
Anyway, still not sold on moving camp. Lots of apps on the Apple side... Until I saw this:

https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_4_16gb

Are you kidding me?? The flagship phone, arguably better than the iPhone 5 - (specs dont matter I know - but Jelly Bean is really really smooth nowadays, and Android is moving forward at a faster rate than iOS), almost as many apps and.... for $300 less than the iPhone 5 16gb??

How is this a fair fight???

Or am I missing something - i dont think that price has a contract attached??



IFRIT
Oct 31, 2012, 05:20 PM
The phone is Sim-free, so no contract.

surjavarman
Oct 31, 2012, 05:21 PM
The nexus4 doesn't have the build quality and premium feel of the iPhone. And android also doesn't have as much games as the iPhone.

Other than that yes it destroys the iphone5 and its unbelievable value

thespazz
Oct 31, 2012, 05:23 PM
The nexus4 doesn't have the build quality and premium feel of the iPhone. And android also doesn't have as much games as the iPhone.

Other than that yes it destroys the iphone5 and its unbelievable value

lol as many games ... please ... since when did that become a worthy aspect of judging an OS?

teknikal90
Oct 31, 2012, 05:23 PM
I'm an Apple fanatic. Wont touch any other laptop with the glowing logo on it. iPhone since the 3G.. Owned 3 ipads so far... iPods...Apple TV.

But I have to say, it's really tough for me to justify that $300

surjavarman
Oct 31, 2012, 05:24 PM
lol as many games ... please ... since when did that become a worthy aspect of judging an OS?

replace games with ecosystem. but they are interchangeable cause whenever people are talking about the great ecosystem of iOS, they are talking about the games.

chakraj
Oct 31, 2012, 05:28 PM
The nexus4 doesn't have the build quality and premium feel of the iPhone. And android also doesn't have as much games as the iPhone.

Other than that yes it destroys the iphone5 and its unbelievable value

Yes the nexus 4 is glass on both sides, so it doesnt have the inferior aluminium build quality, thanks for pointing that out.

dwhynman
Oct 31, 2012, 05:31 PM
I was just saying today that I think the iphone 5 may not even be in the top 3 phones on the market after the new nexus comes out. I have been a long time apple supporter. I have had every iPhone, but I feel the iphone is falling behind. The new google search app that I downloaded today shows just how much better their voice recognition is as well. I do love how the iphone works with itunes in the cloud, but the google phones do that as well just not with iTunes. I just have too much money invested in apps and music through iTunes that I cant leave iOS. I am trapped and it sucks because I would love to get myself one of these new android devices.

Wuiffi
Oct 31, 2012, 05:31 PM
I've been with an so called Android Flagship for more than 2.5 years no and let me tell you, it's just fun for the first few weeks. I have had 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 4.0 and now different 4.1 ROMs.
Phone slows down with time like an old Win 98 machine, customization is fun for the first week - there is only the clock/timer widget that I use.
It got a lot of force closes and there are some pretty bad bugs too!

IFRIT
Oct 31, 2012, 05:35 PM
I've been with an so called Android Flagship for more than 2.5 years no and let me tell you, it's just fun for the first few weeks. I have had 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 4.0 and now different 4.1 ROMs.
Phone slows down with time like an old Win 98 machine, customization is fun for the first week - there is only the clock/timer widget that I use.
It got a lot of force closes and there are some pretty bad bugs too!

Nexus devices are not flagship phones.

teknikal90
Oct 31, 2012, 05:39 PM
Okay. Well if that's what I'm paying $300 for.. iOS better have NO bugs...
But thats not the case! iOS has bugs too...

I get it, you pay a premium for a premium product. A Sony TV will more expensive than a similarly specced generic found at Wallmart.. But with that premium comes better quality. Better build, better software, better picture quality...
How is the iPhone of higher quality? iOS is arguably inferior... The specs are also pretty much on par..yes, no LTE, but not a big deal IMO, not $300 worth... Is Apple really charging me $300 for aluminium vs. plastic?

Not a good time to be investing in Apple I think

sahnjuro
Oct 31, 2012, 05:41 PM
I truly believe that iphone is overpriced. It isn't because apple makes something like 50% profit on it. They should charge as much as people are willing to pay but I don't believe that the iphone warrants its a full price.

In that sense android phones are better deals, but not too many people on this forum or at apple will care to hear that.

Over time iphone price will come down like prices of PC did. Since innovations on smartphones have plateaued, it will eventually come down because of it.

wknapp0924
Oct 31, 2012, 05:44 PM
No 4G LTE?

teknikal90
Oct 31, 2012, 05:46 PM
would you pay $300 for LTE?

richmds
Oct 31, 2012, 05:50 PM
Its all perception, if you like Nexus do it.

Some people prefer Camry's for the cost and reliability. Some like Lambos even though they are less reliable and 10X the cost of the Camry. They both transport you from A to B.

wknapp0924
Oct 31, 2012, 05:51 PM
would you pay $300 for LTE?

After purchasing the Iphone 5 with LTE yes I would pay $300.00 just for LTE.

enophi1
Oct 31, 2012, 06:07 PM
All depends on how much you're willing to pay, what features you're going to use "LTE" for example , the look and feel of the device and if you want to move away from Apple.

I love my iphone 5 and sure I think it's terribly overpriced, but at the end of the day it suits my needs.

teknikal90
Oct 31, 2012, 06:13 PM
Its all perception, if you like Nexus do it.

Some people prefer Camry's for the cost and reliability. Some like Lambos even though they are less reliable and 10X the cost of the Camry. They both transport you from A to B.

All I'm saying, is if a Camry has arguably better interiors and is arguably faster than a Lamborghini, the price of the Lamborghini will start to be open for debate.

To put it in a similar industry... It's getting harder and harder right now to justify buying a Mac Pro, when the rest of the industry have moved faster and further forward from those 2010 features

jimmyb5374
Oct 31, 2012, 06:16 PM
Being here in the uk where lte / 4g won't be a huge shout for what a year or two from now , i would gladly pay half the price to get a 3-5mbps connection out of a nexus 4 , over say an iphone 5, or the 4s i have right now

I firmly think when its out i will be trading / ebaying the 4s and getting one , i mean there are mad fans either camps ,debunkers and just plain trolls either camps , but apple making a markup from a $175 build cost to a £500 resale here in the UK, that's just pure business based on the utter hype apple don't get virus issues , have a fully stable ring fenced OS and have a better build quality , all of which have been very debatable in the last few months .

Face it Apple are getting to a point where the bubble will certainly burst , mobile wise anyway ,as soon as people actually accept there are just as good options out there for a lot less $$$

wknapp0924
Oct 31, 2012, 06:18 PM
All I'm saying, is if a Camry has arguably better interiors and is arguably faster than a Lamborghini, the price of the Lamborghini will start to be open for debate.

Your not just paying for the insides of the phone. You are paying for the prestige of the name brand.

Apple is not supposed to be a budget brand, and they can and will always charge a premium for this symbol :apple:

itjw
Oct 31, 2012, 06:24 PM
People vote with their $$$

So far, for all of the "customization" "innovation" and "tech specs" Android phones (I say phones because it seems like there is a new model almost weekly and wouldn't want to cite Nexus 4 when there is really a slightly better Nexus 6 due out in 12 days...), the iPhone literally destroys any single model using Android.

If the iPhone didn't exist I would probably own an Android. Luckily it does exist, does everything I need (and more), does so with a polished and integrated ecosystem that works better (not flawlessly, but better) than any computer I have ever owned, and holds it's resale better than any Android phone I have seen (my brother has owned several, and taken a bath on all of them because of how quickly they fall out of style and become dated).

The iPhone dominates because of a package. Not because of one killer "app" or "spec". Android people hate the fact that iPhones aren't "innovative" or "customizable" yet the majority of Android power users use a custom ROM instead of the stock "innovation".

And yes, once you load an Android phone up with "customization" it slows to a crawl, force quits a LOT, and makes you want something else.

Never, in owning every iPhone since the 2G, have I longed for another phone on the market. There hasn't been a reason to. The iPhone is the best because it does everything well. Not because it's the fastest or the most something, but because it does everything at a very high level. There are no legitimate compromises (even LTE was cut in favor of battery life... which, while I love LTE, would be fine without if it killed my battery).

The numbers back me up. People who buy an iPhone KEEP buying iPhones. Android doesn't have that retention factor. Why is that???

jimmyb5374
Oct 31, 2012, 06:42 PM
Having owned android phone since 2007, and hating some things i will disagree with you on 2 points ;

1) apple sales now are not so much incremental based on tech , they are upgrades and based on "my mates all have them so i want one" , that's pretty evident if you go into any phone store , i mean actual phone store not apple store.

2) Custom roms on android phones make them blaze in speed / industry standard performance tests against everything but the ip5 , and when the jellybean roms get blitzed i genuinely believe they will outperform the ip5

You are 100% right that apples walled garden can be better , makes for a smoother os to not need this trickery etc to be better , i mean i have owned an iphone 4s for 5 days and today i got siri to bring me up the new die hard trailer in about 1.5 seconds flat , which to me is cool ,but how many things like that will stave off the much bigger android market from outpacing them and just plain making them look tired etc ?

If i want flipboard on one half of my screen at the top , and facebook feed on the bottom half, then on about 24 "crappy android phones" i can do that in 5 seconds , but apple decided thats not a necessary feature

to me thats protectionism , not progression


People vote with their $$$

So far, for all of the "customization" "innovation" and "tech specs" Android phones (I say phones because it seems like there is a new model almost weekly and wouldn't want to cite Nexus 4 when there is really a slightly better Nexus 6 due out in 12 days...), the iPhone literally destroys any single model using Android.

If the iPhone didn't exist I would probably own an Android. Luckily it does exist, does everything I need (and more), does so with a polished and integrated ecosystem that works better (not flawlessly, but better) than any computer I have ever owned, and holds it's resale better than any Android phone I have seen (my brother has owned several, and taken a bath on all of them because of how quickly they fall out of style and become dated).

The iPhone dominates because of a package. Not because of one killer "app" or "spec". Android people hate the fact that iPhones aren't "innovative" or "customizable" yet the majority of Android power users use a custom ROM instead of the stock "innovation".

And yes, once you load an Android phone up with "customization" it slows to a crawl, force quits a LOT, and makes you want something else.

Never, in owning every iPhone since the 2G, have I longed for another phone on the market. There hasn't been a reason to. The iPhone is the best because it does everything well. Not because it's the fastest or the most something, but because it does everything at a very high level. There are no legitimate compromises (even LTE was cut in favor of battery life... which, while I love LTE, would be fine without if it killed my battery).

The numbers back me up. People who buy an iPhone KEEP buying iPhones. Android doesn't have that retention factor. Why is that???

onthecouchagain
Oct 31, 2012, 06:47 PM
Okay. Well if that's what I'm paying $300 for.. iOS better have NO bugs...
But thats not the case! iOS has bugs too...


Thank you for being honest. It's very true. My 4S had plenty of issues. And even just one issue debunks the whole "it just works" myth.

Even my iPad 3rd gen with iOS 6 sees bugs once in a while, including the occasional lag.

All OSes will have their issues.


For what it's worth, now is a great time to try Android. Stock Android, that is. And I predict the party's just getting started...

adztaylor
Oct 31, 2012, 07:02 PM
The nexus4 doesn't have the build quality and premium feel of the iPhone.



Will you stop spreading this rubbish when you have clearly no idea what you're talking about.

onthecouchagain
Oct 31, 2012, 07:02 PM
would you pay $300 for LTE?

The unlocked iPhone 4 and 4S back then didn't have LTE either, and they were still $649. Today, the unlocked 4S is $549, if I'm not mistaken. Again, without LTE.

Unlocked phones typically don't have LTE so try to not pay too much heed to these "No LTE!" arguments. Yes, Google should eventually release carrier specific Nexus 4's with CDMA/LTE, and hopefully they do for their own sake, but initially, the Nexus is meant to be an unlocked device. The iPhone, on the other hand, is meant to be carrier-specific. Different methods.

HSPA+ is no slouch, and don't forget the trade off for LTE: 15.3 hours of talk time and 330 hours of standby time (compared to iPhone's 8 hours talk, 225 hours standby). Only you can decide if that's worth the trade off. In my opinion, the differences of loading websites in seconds is worth it for nearly double the iPhone's battery life.

And for those that are skeptical about those numbers, here are recent stats of my Galaxy Nexus battery running on Tmo's HSPA:

http://i.imgur.com/4KOfA.png

http://i.imgur.com/pHNH9.png

13+ hours and still 48% left. I could push it hard for another good few hours if I wanted to. Much more if I used the rest of the battery moderately.

teknikal90
Oct 31, 2012, 07:06 PM
Thank you for being honest. It's very true. My 4S had plenty of issues. And even just one issue debunks the whole "it just works" myth.

Even my iPad 3rd gen with iOS 6 sees bugs once in a while, including the occasional lag.

All OSes will have their issues.


For what it's worth, now is a great time to try Android. Stock Android, that is. And I predict the party's just getting started...

True. my iPad boots me off Safari every once in a while - usually on heavier sites. and my iPhone gets warm and gets on a battery munching spree every once in a while. Then it'll force reset me. BUT VERY rarely.
To be clear, overall, iOS is pretty stable, not 'premium' stable, but I was happy. Until, like I said above, I saw what the other camp is getting nowadays.

Just wanted to see if I was missing something - was there a hidden cost behind that $359?? - and there wasn't. Android truly is the cutting edge right now. They did what Microsoft did with Windows but looked to skip all the mistakes and all the way up to Windows 7 era.

onthecouchagain
Oct 31, 2012, 07:12 PM
True. my iPad boots me off Safari every once in a while - usually on heavier sites. and my iPhone gets warm and gets on a battery munching spree every once in a while. Then it'll force reset me. BUT VERY rarely.
To be clear, overall, iOS is pretty stable, not 'premium' stable, but I was happy. Until, like I said above, I saw what the other camp is getting nowadays.

Just wanted to see if I was missing something - was there a hidden cost behind that $359?? - and there wasn't. Android truly is the cutting edge right now. They did what Microsoft did with Windows but looked to skip all the mistakes and all the way up to Windows 7 era.


The $299 or $349 is fully unlocked, carrier free, and runs on GSM only (Tmobile or ATT or Simple Mobile, Straight Talk, Metro PCS, etc.). Will work internationally too. No tricks.

Google has really done good by setting these price points. The value is tremendous, indeed. It's a great balance of affordability, future-specs, and fast growing, fast improving software and app selection. As the Nexus branding and name gain recognition and prominence (much thanks to the Nexus 7 for getting that started), the ecosystem will only get better and better. Android is not without its own faults (again, the humility of most Android users is a stark contrast to the "it just works" mentality of most iOS users) but it's come a long way and many of the concerns of Android from yesteryear are long gone.

The few caveats? Storage size selection sucks (still don't get why Google didn't offer 32GB option) and you lose LTE. But for LTE, you gain nearly double the battery life of the iPhone, save a ton of money, have the freedom to choose your carrier, and get a quad-core S4 device. And HSPA+ is no slouch, either, especially on Tmo. It's actually the perfect balance of fast download speeds and great battery life.

smellysox8
Oct 31, 2012, 07:20 PM
The nexus4 doesn't have the build quality and premium feel of the iPhone. And android also doesn't have as much games as the iPhone.


How do you figure that? Have you held the Nexus 4 in hand? :rolleyes:

cynics
Oct 31, 2012, 07:20 PM
People vote with their $$$

So far, for all of the "customization" "innovation" and "tech specs" Android phones (I say phones because it seems like there is a new model almost weekly and wouldn't want to cite Nexus 4 when there is really a slightly better Nexus 6 due out in 12 days...), the iPhone literally destroys any single model using Android.

If the iPhone didn't exist I would probably own an Android. Luckily it does exist, does everything I need (and more), does so with a polished and integrated ecosystem that works better (not flawlessly, but better) than any computer I have ever owned, and holds it's resale better than any Android phone I have seen (my brother has owned several, and taken a bath on all of them because of how quickly they fall out of style and become dated).

The iPhone dominates because of a package. Not because of one killer "app" or "spec". Android people hate the fact that iPhones aren't "innovative" or "customizable" yet the majority of Android power users use a custom ROM instead of the stock "innovation".

And yes, once you load an Android phone up with "customization" it slows to a crawl, force quits a LOT, and makes you want something else.

Never, in owning every iPhone since the 2G, have I longed for another phone on the market. There hasn't been a reason to. The iPhone is the best because it does everything well. Not because it's the fastest or the most something, but because it does everything at a very high level. There are no legitimate compromises (even LTE was cut in favor of battery life... which, while I love LTE, would be fine without if it killed my battery).

The numbers back me up. People who buy an iPhone KEEP buying iPhones. Android doesn't have that retention factor. Why is that???

Actually the numbers don't back it up anymore...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57542628-37/iphone-users-get-less-loyal/

smellysox8
Oct 31, 2012, 07:21 PM
After purchasing the Iphone 5 with LTE yes I would pay $300.00 just for LTE.

Then you have Galaxy S3 and HTC One X.

ReanimationN
Oct 31, 2012, 07:21 PM
Android's very enjoyable for the first few months. You'll get over it pretty quickly once you realise that touch responsiveness just isn't on the same level as iOS, that the apps aren't of as high a quality and that if anything goes wrong with your device, prepare to lose essentially everything, as unless you've unlocked and rooted your device, you can't make proper backups of your device.

Android seemingly continues to pile more and more new features onto the OS to distract from the fact that performance in the basics is still lacking. I'll gladly take the incredibly limited and stale iOS on a phone over Android, as iOS has mastered the basics and performs beautifully, whereas Android is still plagued by lag, even in Jelly Bean. I'm not a massive iOS fan, I would have gladly bought a WP8 device, but I couldn't handle another day with my 3GS (I really, really hate lag), so I upgraded at the first opportunity.

I was lured into getting a Nexus 7 by the cheap price- it's going on eBay tomorrow. Get something that works, don't get it just for the price.

onthecouchagain
Oct 31, 2012, 07:30 PM
Get something that works, don't get it just for the price.

Yup. The iPhone. It just works!

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_587/1299222187J09R6S.jpg

itjw
Oct 31, 2012, 07:35 PM
Having owned android phone since 2007, and hating some things i will disagree with you on 2 points ;

1) apple sales now are not so much incremental based on tech , they are upgrades and based on "my mates all have them so i want one" , that's pretty evident if you go into any phone store , i mean actual phone store not apple store.

2) Custom roms on android phones make them blaze in speed / industry standard performance tests against everything but the ip5 , and when the jellybean roms get blitzed i genuinely believe they will outperform the ip5

You are 100% right that apples walled garden can be better , makes for a smoother os to not need this trickery etc to be better , i mean i have owned an iphone 4s for 5 days and today i got siri to bring me up the new die hard trailer in about 1.5 seconds flat , which to me is cool ,but how many things like that will stave off the much bigger android market from outpacing them and just plain making them look tired etc ?

If i want flipboard on one half of my screen at the top , and facebook feed on the bottom half, then on about 24 "crappy android phones" i can do that in 5 seconds , but apple decided thats not a necessary feature

to me thats protectionism , not progression

Apple is more popular.

While I agree that there are people who buy phones as status symbols and that Apple is the pinnacle of that for phones, saying that is the reason why they literally destroy any single Android model is about as ridiculous as saying that Android fanboys only buy the phone because it's NOT an iPhone and they want to be anti-establishment (which I'm sure happens too, but isn't the main driver of sales...).

Some of it is fragmentation, sure, but it still doesn't explain why Android can't build a phone (even the mighty SGS3) that makes signifigant strides in convincing Apple folks to jump ship. Even if both segements are gaining market share, it's just because BlackBerry and dumb phones are LOSING it, not because people are leaving Apple for Android.

Androids AREN'T as cool as iPhones. Sure it's a factor, but again, it's just one of MANY (AND it's cooler (therefore more people have them, they get more support, more developers want to develop for them, there are more accessories, etc.).

The iPhone is the better overall package.

People vote with their wallets, and Apple charges more and STILL has people lining up to buy it. It's primarily repeat business because of overwhelming satifaction... not people jumping ship to be cool like their buddies.

You sound like a Samsung commercial :p

The Face
Oct 31, 2012, 07:40 PM
It costs roughly £103 to build an iPhone 5, less than half that cost goes on the materials it's made out of. Apple then sell it for £529 as a "premium built product"

So you're paying £426 for the privilege of Apple wanting more money from you.

cynics
Oct 31, 2012, 07:44 PM
Oh good an "it just works" debate. Here are screen shots of my iPhone just working.

Voice dictation icon grays out quite often

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/u5u6uguj.jpg

For some reason this single voice multiplied

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/u9egazyr.jpg

All my text vanished, had to soft reset for them to come back

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/zuve4u5y.jpg

Half my photos disappeared

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/eze2yda6.jpg

iCloud was down, lost those pictures permanently.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/zy7e2aqu.jpg

After a soft reset I lost a lot of setting, it was even trying to re teach me how to make folders, notice the background.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/evuvase2.jpg

Email being screwy. I didn't get an email that day so I'm assuming that was it.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/suguruqe.jpg

Unable to delete my voicemails.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/3abyve7y.jpg

Shows updates but doesn't show me anything.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/6unatumu.jpg

I have NO clue what was going on here. Lol

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/y5asapy2.jpg

Typical Siri being Siri.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/a4abeja6.jpg

Lol

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/gude3epy.jpg

Those are just pulled out of my camera roll I'm sure there are more. That is things I was able to take a pic of not aps crashing or things like that. For example there is a thread called post your panorama pics in iOS 6 forum. In tapatalk if I scroll through the pics it will crash tapatalk every single time.

I don't find android to be any less or more reliable then iOS.

itjw
Oct 31, 2012, 07:46 PM
Actually the numbers don't back it up anymore...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57542628-37/iphone-users-get-less-loyal/

All that article says is that the number of users "DEFINITELY" buying another iPhone is declining. I might have even guessed that, given how fast the user base of iPhones has grown since the 3GS. When you get that many people involved, a greater number is sure to be less committed. It is what it is, and it's STILL better than Android.

What it doesn't say is that iPhone users are more likely to buy a different phone than Android users when the time comes. THAT was my point. Android users jump ship all the time (some for fragmentation sure, but overall satisfaction for Android users is significantly lower than that of iPhone users). I don't know anyone that has left iPhone for Android and hasn't come back. I'm sure it happens, but I see the opposite literally ALL the time (the guy with the office next to me most recently).

Android may get decent satisfaction numbers, but iPhone satisfaction is still significantly better. It gets even more apparent the longer someone owns an Android (out of the box they work well, just not down the line when they get bogged down). Again, not speaking from personal experience, just what I have heard from friends/relatives. I have had NO compelling reason to switch. None.

I'm completely satisfied with iPhone's. Always have been, as have a lot of people. Android can't say that (at least to the same extent).

You'd think with all the "innovation" "customization" and "specs" that it would be the other way around, but it's not.

ReanimationN
Oct 31, 2012, 07:51 PM
Yup. The iPhone. It just works!

Image (http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_587/1299222187J09R6S.jpg)

Trust me, I'm not an Apple "It just works!" guy, look through my post history at my rages over my MBP and the troubles I've had with it (and Apple's crappy customer service in Australia)- it's been one of the worst products I've ever bought. My iPhone 3GS, however, was solid up until the most recent updates for it.

As I've said in other topics, if you don't want an Apple product, there is another alternative! You don't have to get an Android. Windows Phone 8 devices and Windows 8 tablets are now out and are awesome. On that note, I finally tried a Windows 8 tablet out after work last night, it was an Asus RT model- the UI feels amazing on a tablet. Can't wait for some good x86 Windows 8 tablets, I'll be on one ASAP.

3bs
Oct 31, 2012, 08:08 PM
And for those that are skeptical about those numbers, here are recent stats of my Galaxy Nexus battery running on Tmo's HSPA:

Image (http://i.imgur.com/4KOfA.png)

Image (http://i.imgur.com/pHNH9.png)

13+ hours and still 48% left. I could push it hard for another good few hours if I wanted to. Much more if I used the rest of the battery moderately.

Screen on time?

You practically have no wakelocks or alarms. Do you have email set to push? No social apps refreshing? Is this your main and only phone?

onthecouchagain
Oct 31, 2012, 08:40 PM
Trust me, I'm not an Apple "It just works!" guy, look through my post history at my rages over my MBP and the troubles I've had with it (and Apple's crappy customer service in Australia)- it's been one of the worst products I've ever bought. My iPhone 3GS, however, was solid up until the most recent updates for it.

As I've said in other topics, if you don't want an Apple product, there is another alternative! You don't have to get an Android. Windows Phone 8 devices and Windows 8 tablets are now out and are awesome. On that note, I finally tried a Windows 8 tablet out after work last night, it was an Asus RT model- the UI feels amazing on a tablet. Can't wait for some good x86 Windows 8 tablets, I'll be on one ASAP.

Didn't you say apps were utterly important? Microsoft's app store leaves a lot to be desired. Much more than the Play Store. As the Nexus name gains momentum, the Play Store will not only continue to grow, but will get better in quality.

Your other important feature was a lag-free and highly responsive OS. iOS is not lag-free nor is it 100% responsive. I've had plenty of experiences where I tap on an app icon, and the icon gets greyed out a bit so I know it caught my tap, but it won't launch. I experienced this on my 4S when I had it, and on my iPad 3rd gen running iOS 6 today still. Also, the keyboard constantly lags and/or misses key presses when I'm typing. This hardly seems responsive. The missed keys lead to some atrocious auto correcting. Don't forget, the iOS keyboard gave birth to the entire "Damn You iPhone Auto Correct" phenom on the web. Again, hardly lag-free and 100% responsive.

Is Android perfect in responsiveness and completely lag-free? Heck no. Is iOS? Well, only you would know your own experiences.

----------

Screen on time?

You practically have no wakelocks or alarms. Do you have email set to push? No social apps refreshing? Is this your main and only phone?

Ah, I never captured a screen on time... I can try to capture one next time.

But I can tell you I push three different email accounts, leave gchat signed on, and use Whatsapp constantly throughout the day. During my commute, I listen to music, browse, and play some games (nothing intensive though. I'm talking Tetris, Solitaire, the occasional Jetpack Joyride, heh).

You seem awfully skeptical about the battery life claims judging by your posts recently, and I suppose I can't blame you. But I assure you, HSPA+ is a perfect balance of speed and batteries. You'll get through a day of moderate use very easily.

EDIT: You can sort of see the screen on time at the bottom of the graph in the pic.

I can post my usage today, if you want, but I didn't use it very much today.

3bs
Oct 31, 2012, 08:44 PM
Ah, I never captured a screen on time... I can try to capture one next time.

But I can tell you I push three different email accounts, leave gchat signed on, and use Whatsapp constantly throughout the day. During my commute, I listen to music, browse, and play some games (nothing intensive though. I'm talking Tetris, Solitaire, the occasional Jetpack Joyride, heh).

You seem awfully skeptical about the battery life claims judging by your posts recently, and I suppose I can't blame you. But I assure you, HSPA+ is a perfect balance of speed and batteries. You'll get through a day of moderate use very easily.

EDIT: You can sort of see the screen on time at the bottom of the graph in the pic.

I can post my usage today, if you want, but I didn't use it very much today.

I just can't seem to go a whole day with moderate/heavy usage. Not with my iPhone 4/4S or GS3 :p

onthecouchagain
Oct 31, 2012, 08:47 PM
I just can't seem to go a whole day with moderate/heavy usage. Not with my iPhone 4/4S or GS3 :p

What is your moderate/heavy usage?

3bs
Oct 31, 2012, 08:58 PM
What is your moderate/heavy usage?

Well recently it's been about 13 hours of phone on and 3 hours of screen on time on average.

zbarvian
Oct 31, 2012, 09:04 PM
I couldn't stand to go without my music apps, or to have a touchscreen be less responsive. I've used Android 4.0 tablets and phones an they just aren't tight when following your finger. It's amazing how we can live in the 21st century with incredibly powerful SoC's and this sort of behavior is still accepted.

ReanimationN
Oct 31, 2012, 09:07 PM
Forget it.

Technarchy
Oct 31, 2012, 09:10 PM
I'm passing the time playing Punch Quest...sadly, it's not on android.

iOS is the developers choice.

zbarvian
Oct 31, 2012, 09:14 PM
No, it's not, but on an iPhone 5, iOS feels as close to 100% responsive as I've ever felt a mobile OS be. I can't speak for your experience with your iPad 3 or iPhone 4S as I don't own either, but my iPhone 5 hasn't missed a beat while typing.

That's right, and I've found Android to be a massive disappointment in this field. I bought an N7 after reading time after time that Jelly Bean had caught up to iOS in terms of responsiveness and performance, only to find that's not the case at all. I came into Android with an open mind after being disappointed with the past few iOS releases, only to walk away feeling more disappointed with Android than I do with iOS. iOS is still annoyingly limited, still boring, still much the same as it has been for the last few years, but it has the basics done right and that's what I want. Not a pile of features on top of a laggy OS.

This summarizes perfectly my impression of Android vs iOS.

onthecouchagain
Oct 31, 2012, 09:22 PM
I'm passing the time playing Punch Quest...sadly, it's not on android.



Android doesn't have Punch Quest yet? Why didn't you say so earlier????

: throws GN out the window :

----------

iOS is still annoyingly limited, still boring, still much the same as it has been for the last few years, but it has the basics done right and that's what I want.

Sounds like you're the perfect market audience for Apple. Fair enough.

LIVEFRMNYC
Oct 31, 2012, 09:25 PM
I couldn't stand to go without my music apps, or to have a touchscreen be less responsive. I've used Android 4.0 tablets and phones an they just aren't tight when following your finger. It's amazing how we can live in the 21st century with incredibly powerful SoC's and this sort of behavior is still accepted.

That's gotta be device specific. The touchscreen on my GS3 is just as responsive and natural like as the iPhone.

onthecouchagain
Oct 31, 2012, 09:29 PM
That's gotta be device specific. The touchscreen on my GS3 is just as responsive and natural like as the iPhone.


Don't worry. These fellas are just pinching and squeezing and nitpicking all that's left that can be used to criticize Android. And whatever they can squeeze, they'll blow up to obfuscate and make it a bigger issue than it is. To some, millisecond differences in touch responsiveness, or waiting a little bit for games like Punch Quest (hell of a fun game, not knocking it) is a deal breaker. All fair points of view.

cnguyen0320
Oct 31, 2012, 09:31 PM
That's gotta be device specific. The touchscreen on my GS3 is just as responsive and natural like as the iPhone.

Every phone will lag sometimes. The iPhone, the GS3. Just testing the phones out at at&t's kiosk today, I found the iphone to be just a bit better at handling lag. It also depends on how much you run in the background. I think people complain about android's lag because they don't end background processes and have like 10 apps running at a time. Apple on the other hand closes down apps when over 3 or 4 are open (they still show up when you double tap home but they aren't actively running or ready to quickly resume action). Its intuitive on apple's part but also a restriction that can draw criticism

zbarvian
Oct 31, 2012, 09:37 PM
Don't worry. These fellas are just pinching and squeezing and nitpicking all that's left that can be used to criticize Android. And whatever they can squeeze, they'll blow up to obfuscate and make it a bigger issue than it is. To some, millisecond differences in touch responsiveness, or waiting a little bit for games like Punch Quest (hell of a fun game, not knocking it) is a deal breaker. All fair points of view.

The perceived difference between 80 milliseconds of touchscreen lag and 30 milliseconds of lag is huge. And nitpicking? Android users do this constantly, because truth is both platforms are very capable at performing most smartphone tasks.

Sensamic
Oct 31, 2012, 09:47 PM
As much as I like Apple products it's just starting to get really really expensive.

Just look at the new MacBook pro 13: 1700$!!! Then look at the iPad mini: 329$.
Then look at the iPhone contact free: an impossible 700$ in my country.

And we must consider iOS is not what it used to be. One year ago, before ICS, I think there was no doubt that iOS and iPhone were better.

In only one year we got ICS, JB and 4.2, which are far more feature rich than the last two iOS generations... which got notifications, cloud services and voice commands much later than Android.

For me the toughest part is price. I'm not gonna spend what Apple asks anymore. Too much for too little.

I can upgrade phones and tablets much cheaper thanks to the nexus family, and I get amazing hardware and amazing software.

I mean... seriously... there's not even a file explorer on iOS!! Every OS has it, be it a phone or desktop OS.

aristobrat
Oct 31, 2012, 09:49 PM
The flagship phone, arguably better than the iPhone 5 - (specs dont matter I know - but Jelly Bean is really really smooth nowadays, and Android is moving forward at a faster rate than iOS), almost as many apps and.... for $300 less than the iPhone 5 16gb??

How is this a fair fight???
Don't forget that Apple and Google have two totally different business models.

Apple is a hardware company. The majority of their revenue comes from selling not-inexpensive devices.

Google is an advertising company. Almost all of their revenue comes from selling advertisements. So when they sell you a good phone for $300 less than Apple, remember that virtually every time that you use that phone, you're generating additional revenue for them.

Of course, that's not money of your pocket, so you probably don't care. But if you're really going to compare hardware prices between Google and Apple, that's an important differentiating factor.

ReanimationN
Oct 31, 2012, 09:55 PM
Sounds like you're the perfect market audience for Apple. Fair enough.Or Microsoft? ;)
I'd be more than happy with having a lot of Android's features on the iPhone (which Apple is more than capable of doing), but it'd have to stay lag-free. Performance before more features. If I can have both, awesome! If I can only have more of one than the other, I'll take performance every time.
Don't worry. These fellas are just pinching and squeezing and nitpicking all that's left that can be used to criticize Android. And whatever they can squeeze, they'll blow up to obfuscate and make it a bigger issue than it is. To some, millisecond differences in touch responsiveness, or waiting a little bit for games like Punch Quest (hell of a fun game, not knocking it) is a deal breaker. All fair points of view.Lag is unacceptable on a quad-core device running the latest and greatest OS and I don't know why people make excuses for it.

onthecouchagain
Oct 31, 2012, 09:58 PM
The perceived difference between 80 milliseconds of touchscreen lag and 30 milliseconds of lag is huge. And nitpicking? Android users do this constantly, because truth is both platforms are very capable at performing most smartphone tasks.


What exactly are the numbers? I tried to google some measurements post Project Butter, and can't seem to dig any up. I'm genuinely curious to see how big this difference really is.

Anyone can find anything?

----------

Lag is unacceptable on a quad-core device running the latest and greatest OS and I don't know why people make excuses for it.

You've used the Nexus 4? Please, more impressions.

No one is making excuses. It would be foolish for me not to admit Android is laggier than iOS or to not wish for it to get better with each software update, but the differences are marginal in my experience. And again, it's not like iOS doesn't lag itself. But, if those marginal differences does mean the world to you, iOS is the way to go. One would have to reconcile everything else iOS falls short on, all of which you are okay with.

Sensamic
Oct 31, 2012, 10:06 PM
I'm passing the time playing Punch Quest...sadly, it's not on android.

iOS is the developers choice.

Is there a way to send a file from the iPhone to someone's else iPhone or iPad and the other way around?

And email doesn't count since many people just don't want to share their private email addresses.

How would you do it without email? Is there a way?

On Android I can use Bluetooth or Android Beam for instant transfers.

So advanced is iOS that you can't share files between its own family of devices. Absurd.

Is it that hard to implement airdrop or something like that? Stupid Apple and its stupid decisions.


PS: I'm passing the time playing Donkey Kong and Super Mario... sadly, you can't do that on iOS...

onthecouchagain
Oct 31, 2012, 10:17 PM
Every phone will lag sometimes. The iPhone, the GS3. Just testing the phones out at at&t's kiosk today, I found the iphone to be just a bit better at handling lag. It also depends on how much you run in the background. I think people complain about android's lag because they don't end background processes and have like 10 apps running at a time. Apple on the other hand closes down apps when over 3 or 4 are open (they still show up when you double tap home but they aren't actively running or ready to quickly resume action). Its intuitive on apple's part but also a restriction that can draw criticism

Basically, this.

Very curious to know what the exact touch input lag numbers are between both systems. It could be major. I want to see how major.

ReanimationN
Oct 31, 2012, 10:21 PM
You've used the Nexus 4? Please, more impressions.I was talking about the N7. :confused: Unless you meant I haven't used 4.2 yet? Which is true, but 4.1.2 is still the latest update available to the public.
No one is making excuses. It would be foolish for me not to admit Android is laggier than iOS or to not wish for it to get better with each software update, but the differences are marginal in my experience. And again, it's not like iOS doesn't lag itself. But, if those marginal differences does mean the world to you, iOS is the way to go. One would have to reconcile everything else iOS falls short on, all of which you are okay with.I don't know, apologies if I'm sounding heated, but it doesn't feel like a marginal difference to me. iOS/WP and Android still feel worlds apart. In terms of everything iOS falls short on, I'm perfectly fine with as I wouldn't really want to use my phone to do anything that complex (and there's usually the option of jailbreaking to obtain some of those features down the track). On a tablet though, I think iOS' simplicity is unacceptable, which is why I went for a Nexus 7 in the first place and why I'll be getting a Windows 8 tablet.

tjl3
Oct 31, 2012, 10:49 PM
Don't forget that Apple and Google have two totally different business models.

Apple is a hardware company. The majority of their revenue comes from selling not-inexpensive devices.

Google is an advertising company. Almost all of their revenue comes from selling advertisements. So when they sell you a good phone for $300 less than Apple, remember that virtually every time that you use that phone, you're generating additional revenue for them.

Of course, that's not money of your pocket, so you probably don't care. But if you're really going to compare hardware prices between Google and Apple, that's an important differentiating factor.

This! Some people seem to get it and many others just don't understand.

For lack of a better term, Apple has a monopoly on iOS devices. Any smartphone manufacturer would love to sell their devices at a much higher price point, but there is just too much competition. If Samsung releases the GS3 at $100 or $200 they would get laughed out of the market because there are just way too many alternatives that run the same software.

On the other hand, I think Google is finally starting to give Apple reason to worry. Android is a very capable and intriguing alternative now, so in turn Apple is going to have to start giving its consumers even more reason to pay their premium. And hopefully that reason comes in the form of software innovation.

onthecouchagain
Oct 31, 2012, 11:23 PM
How far will the 1.5 S4 Quad-core processor go in reducing input lag?

How much will the LG Zerogap technology go in helping too? On Zerogap: "The result is greater touch sensitivity offering users an immersive and real-touch sensing experience..."

I wonder.

DeathChill
Oct 31, 2012, 11:26 PM
Android is not without its own faults (again, the humility of most Android users is a stark contrast to the "it just works" mentality of most iOS users) but it's come a long way and many of the concerns of Android from yesteryear are long gone.


Just curious where you get this from? I've seen you repeat it over and over. I don't know how you've "measured" this.

onthecouchagain
Oct 31, 2012, 11:33 PM
Just curious where you get this from? I've seen you repeat it over and over. I don't know how you've "measured" this.

That's been my experience and observation around these forums and the XDA forums for the past year or two. How many times have we heard the phrase "it just works" uttered? Too many. Apple fans should be appalled by the damage that phrase has done.

Having said that, I do notice it's not used as often anymore. A lot of people, not just myself, are finally calling out on the silliness and inaccuracy of that phrase.

DeathChill
Oct 31, 2012, 11:42 PM
That's been my experience and observation around these forums and the XDA forums for the past year or two. How many times have we heard the phrase "it just works" uttered? Too many. Apple fans should be appalled by the damage that phrase has done.

Having said that, I do notice it's not used as often anymore. A lot of people, not just myself, are finally calling out on the silliness and inaccuracy of that phrase.

I just find it strange that you act as if Android user's as a whole are open about Android's flaws and iOS users are close-minded.

I mean, for the longest time we heard that Android didn't lag at all from MANY Android enthusiasts here. Then ICS came out and the lag issues (that apparently didn't exist, mind you) were a thing of the past according to Android fans. Then JB came out with Project Butter and the lag that "never" existed was as smooth as iOS and WP.

I think it's very silly to try and say one side is better than the other. That's why I wouldn't do it.

Apollo 13
Oct 31, 2012, 11:55 PM
I don't know how many times I have to mention this but Jelly Bean does not get rid of lag. It get rid of UI lag and that's it. It's up to the devs to make their apps not laggy and good luck with that. I have apps that haven't been updated in a while. Devs are still not even updating their apps to tablet format yet. The devs don't care on on android since they know they can make a killing on ios. Netflix interface is so damn laggy on my Transformer Prime and even my blu-ray player and it hurts my eyes, but it's buttery smooth on the ipad. It took forever for CNN to fix their tablet app so it didn't crash on everyone's tablet, but you open it up on ipad and ran perfect with no crashes.

----------

I just find it strange that you act as if Android user's as a whole are open about Android's flaws and iOS users are close-minded.

I mean, for the longest time we heard that Android didn't lag at all from MANY Android enthusiasts here. Then ICS came out and the lag issues (that apparently didn't exist, mind you) were a thing of the past according to Android fans. Then JB came out with Project Butter and the lag that "never" existed was as smooth as iOS and WP.

I think it's very silly to try and say one side is better than the other. That's why I wouldn't do it.

this is true but ppl like to justify their purchase. I use to do it but I never even touched a ios device. Hell I signed up to this site not even touching a ios device and trolled. Once I bought a ios device I found out it wasn't as bad as ppl made it out to be.

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 12:33 AM
I think it's very silly to try and say one side is better than the other. That's why I wouldn't do it.

You're right.


-----------



So, can anyone dig up anything on the touch input lag of Android vs. iOS? Any real numbers?

jimmyb5374
Nov 1, 2012, 02:25 AM
Did you read my response at all ? how do i sound like a samsung commercial ?:eek:

This is what makes me cross , the whole reasoned debate always boils down to iphones are cooler , they don't have to have the features , you know deal with it YOLO !!!

Some people , myself included , worked to buy their i phones , and guess what , within 3 days the whole app store infrastructure died for several hours , hmm that's cool isnt it

I really like the iphone but please remember at the end of the day apple owe us all as customers jack squat , so why pretend they do this for the customers, they do this to try and squash google like a bug, i believe that was one of Steve's legacy quests , was to be the only place to go for a mobile/tablet/laptop/music player.

So from a progression and innovation yes iphone users are getting jibbed


Apple is more popular.

While I agree that there are people who buy phones as status symbols and that Apple is the pinnacle of that for phones, saying that is the reason why they literally destroy any single Android model is about as ridiculous as saying that Android fanboys only buy the phone because it's NOT an iPhone and they want to be anti-establishment (which I'm sure happens too, but isn't the main driver of sales...).

Some of it is fragmentation, sure, but it still doesn't explain why Android can't build a phone (even the mighty SGS3) that makes signifigant strides in convincing Apple folks to jump ship. Even if both segements are gaining market share, it's just because BlackBerry and dumb phones are LOSING it, not because people are leaving Apple for Android.

Androids AREN'T as cool as iPhones. Sure it's a factor, but again, it's just one of MANY (AND it's cooler (therefore more people have them, they get more support, more developers want to develop for them, there are more accessories, etc.).

The iPhone is the better overall package.

People vote with their wallets, and Apple charges more and STILL has people lining up to buy it. It's primarily repeat business because of overwhelming satifaction... not people jumping ship to be cool like their buddies.

You sound like a Samsung commercial :p

matttye
Nov 1, 2012, 03:03 AM
Those are just pulled out of my camera roll I'm sure there are more. That is things I was able to take a pic of not aps crashing or things like that. For example there is a thread called post your panorama pics in iOS 6 forum. In tapatalk if I scroll through the pics it will crash tapatalk every single time.

I don't find android to be any less or more reliable then iOS.

Out of all those pictures, the only problem I've had is the app/iTunes stores going completely white. That happens every couple of days, and is really annoying when I want to buy music/apps.

Are you jailbroken?

I've only had my iPhone a month so maybe I just haven't had it long enough to start spazzing out yet :p

Apollo 13
Nov 1, 2012, 04:28 AM
yeah I bet dude that posted all those photos is jailbroken. If I bought any phone with those problems I would had took it back day 1. I never saw a non jailbroken iphone with any one of those problems.

cynics
Nov 1, 2012, 07:58 AM
I don't know how many times I have to mention this but Jelly Bean does not get rid of lag. It get rid of UI lag and that's it. It's up to the devs to make their apps not laggy and good luck with that. I have apps that haven't been updated in a while. Devs are still not even updating their apps to tablet format yet. The devs don't care on on android since they know they can make a killing on ios. Netflix interface is so damn laggy on my Transformer Prime and even my blu-ray player and it hurts my eyes, but it's buttery smooth on the ipad. It took forever for CNN to fix their tablet app so it didn't crash on everyone's tablet, but you open it up on ipad and ran perfect with no crashes.

----------



this is true but ppl like to justify their purchase. I use to do it but I never even touched a ios device. Hell I signed up to this site not even touching a ios device and trolled. Once I bought a ios device I found out it wasn't as bad as ppl made it out to be.

What apps are laggy? I don't have any but I'd like to download them to see what you mean. Lets find apps that are as equal or more laggy then Facebook was before its update on iOS.

cynics
Nov 1, 2012, 08:01 AM
yeah I bet dude that posted all those photos is jailbroken. If I bought any phone with those problems I would had took it back day 1. I never saw a non jailbroken iphone with any one of those problems.

My photos? Nice try, not only is that not jail broken its different versions of iOS on 2 different devices.

EVERY problem on there was posted on this forum and other people (your fellow ios users) confirmed or reported having the same glitch once or twice.

Nice try though. Good luck denying reality.

Not positive but I'm pretty sure there is no jailbreak for this.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/sedu5umu.jpg

zbarvian
Nov 1, 2012, 08:22 AM
How far will the 1.5 S4 Quad-core processor go in reducing input lag?

How much will the LG Zerogap technology go in helping too? On Zerogap: "The result is greater touch sensitivity offering users an immersive and real-touch sensing experience..."

I wonder.

Our screens have long been capable of little input lag, it's mostly about the software at this point.

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 08:35 AM
Our screens have long been capable of little input lag, it's mostly about the software at this point.

Good point.

Any luck finding the numbers of the input difference? I can't find any.

EDIT: This is all I could find from Google's developer website:

To ensure a consistent framerate, Android 4.1 extends vsync timing across all drawing and animation done by the Android framework. Everything runs in lockstep against a 16 millisecond vsync heartbeat — application rendering, touch events, screen composition, and display refresh — so frames don’t get ahead or behind.

Not even sure what any of that means or how that compares to iOS.

EDIT2: Found this regarding iPhone 5's touch response:

Display response time

iPhone 5: average 23 milliseconds

http://iphone-myspace.blogspot.com/2012/09/compared-to-apple-iphone-5-display.html

So... is higher better? Shouldn't lower response time be better? Or do those measurements having nothing to do with touch response time?

zbarvian
Nov 1, 2012, 08:54 AM
Good point.

Any luck finding the numbers of the input difference? I can't find any.

EDIT: This is all I could find from Google's developer website:

To ensure a consistent framerate, Android 4.1 extends vsync timing across all drawing and animation done by the Android framework. Everything runs in lockstep against a 16 millisecond vsync heartbeat — application rendering, touch events, screen composition, and display refresh — so frames don’t get ahead or behind.

Not even sure what any of that means or how that compares to iOS.

Microsoft is trying to reduce input lag to ~1 ms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4

Nobody actually publishes precise measurements of input lag on their system, but judging from the video I'd say the average Android phone is somewhere in the vicinity of 75-85 ms (varies greatly between devices and applications, though), and iOS is about 30-40 (consistently). I can't wait for 1 ms, it would be a pretty surreal experience compared to what we've got now. Unfortunately, they say it's 10 years away.

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 09:01 AM
Microsoft is trying to reduce input lag to ~1 ms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4

Nobody actually publishes precise measurements of input lag on their system, but judging from the video I'd say the average Android phone is somewhere in the vicinity of 75-85 ms (varies greatly between devices and applications, though), and iOS is about 30-40 (consistently). I can't wait for 1 ms, it would be a pretty surreal experience compared to what we've got now. Unfortunately, they say it's 10 years away.


So based on your inexact measurements, an average of 35 or so milliseconds of difference in touch response trumps everything Android has to offer over iOS for you. It's not a question, just want to put it there for some perspective. I just can't help but feel that these differences are minor (much like other often touted advantages that iOS has over Android, e.g. app selection).

I think I can live with 35 millisecond difference in my life to gain the advantages I posted here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=16195195&postcount=63

That's just me, of course.


1 millisecond would be nuts. We'll talk again in 10 years about this, I guess. Heh.

3bs
Nov 1, 2012, 09:23 AM
My photos? Nice try, not only is that not jail broken its different versions of iOS on 2 different devices.

EVERY problem on there was posted on this forum and other people (your fellow ios users) confirmed or reported having the same glitch once or twice.

Nice try though. Good luck denying reality.

Not positive but I'm pretty sure there is no jailbreak for this.

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/01/sedu5umu.jpg)

Yep no public jailbreak for iOS 6 yet.

zbarvian
Nov 1, 2012, 09:27 AM
So based on your inexact measurements, an average of 35 or so milliseconds of difference in touch response trumps everything Android has to offer over iOS for you. It's not a question, just want to put it there for some perspective. I just can't help but feel that these differences are minor (much like other often touted advantages that iOS has over Android, e.g. app selection).

I think I can live with 35 millisecond difference in my life to gain the advantages I posted here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=16195195&postcount=63

That's just me, of course.


1 millisecond would be nuts. We'll talk again in 10 years about this, I guess. Heh.

It's huge to the experience. I've been using responsive Apple products for the majority of my tech life, and I couldn't imagine going to something with noticeably more latency. It would never be the sole reason, but it's definitely one of them.

iEnvy
Nov 1, 2012, 09:42 AM
I would love to test out the Nexus 4 for a while, but I don't think I could give up my 5.

There are too may opinions on what provides a better experience. Even reading this thread, its nearly 50/50.

From what I could at least comprehend after reading so many different opinions, I think people are just waiting for iOS to bring some new **** to the table and a better UI. Real geeks cannot deny that Jelly Bean does in fact look pretty good compared to iOS.

In light of recent news, maybe iOS is going to get the change we need, not the one we deserve. :p

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 09:56 AM
I would love to test out the Nexus 4 for a while, but I don't think I could give up my 5.

There are too may opinions on what provides a better experience. Even reading this thread, its nearly 50/50.

From what I could at least comprehend after reading so many different opinions, I think people are just waiting for iOS to bring some new **** to the table and a better UI. Real geeks cannot deny that Jelly Bean does in fact look pretty good compared to iOS.

In light of recent news, maybe iOS is going to get the change we need, not the one we deserve. :p


A recent NY Times article seems to indicate that the changes to iOS will primarily be aesthetics. Hopefully with Ive at the helm, it'll be more than that, but I can't see too serious of an overhaul. Wouldn't want to disrupt or rock the boat too much for the giant base they have now whom are very comfortable with iOS.

I hope it's more than just replacing the faux-leather look.

hot spare
Nov 1, 2012, 10:05 AM
Good point.

Any luck finding the numbers of the input difference? I can't find any.

EDIT: This is all I could find from Google's developer website:

To ensure a consistent framerate, Android 4.1 extends vsync timing across all drawing and animation done by the Android framework. Everything runs in lockstep against a 16 millisecond vsync heartbeat — application rendering, touch events, screen composition, and display refresh — so frames don’t get ahead or behind.

Not even sure what any of that means or how that compares to iOS.

EDIT2: Found this regarding iPhone 5's touch response:

Display response time

iPhone 5: average 23 milliseconds

http://iphone-myspace.blogspot.com/2012/09/compared-to-apple-iphone-5-display.html

So... is higher better? Shouldn't lower response time be better? Or do those measurements having nothing to do with touch response time?

If you are talking of input lag, then nothing comes even near to OLED. OLED (or AMOLED) is said to have a response time of few times less than any LCD display. Theoretically OLED displays can have 0.01ms response.

iEnvy
Nov 1, 2012, 10:08 AM
A recent NY Times article seems to indicate that the changes to iOS will primarily be aesthetics. Hopefully with Ive at the helm, it'll be more than that, but I can't see too serious of an overhaul. Wouldn't want to disrupt or rock the boat too much for the giant base they have now whom are very comfortable with iOS.

I hope it's more than just replacing the faux-leather look.

I want an OS that I can feel connected to. Over the years, iOS just seems there. It gets the job done but I don't feel that "connection".

I think the best example in my case would be texting. Android has swype(I believe its called) that makes texting seem so streamlined and smooth, while with iOS, we've pretty much had the same bland experience with the idiotic autocorrect.

If you're an Android user, I love to hear your input on this. I've been considering jumping the fence.

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 10:18 AM
I want an OS that I can feel connected to. Over the years, iOS just seems there. It gets the job done but I don't feel that "connection".

I think the best example in my case would be texting. Android has swype(I believe its called) that makes texting seem so streamlined and smooth, while with iOS, we've pretty much had the same bland experience with the idiotic autocorrect.

If you're an Android user, I love to hear your input on this. I've been considering jumping the fence.

It's actually very interesting you bring up the keyboard, as that's one of the biggest factors in me jumping ship. I couldn't stand iOS' keyboard. It was amazing back in the 3GS days, but for whatever reason, when it came to the 4S, something went awry. It constantly missed key presses which led to typos which led to Apple's infamous auto corrections. I email and text a lot and sometimes take notes on the go on my phone. The typing experience got so bad that it simply became a deal breaker.

When I switched over to Android, not only was the stock Android keyboard better, but the alternatives blew everything out of the water. Swype was very very cool and handy. I loved it. Then I discovered hands down the best keyboard of all time: SwiftKey. The smart predictions are great and when it works, it can complete full sentences for you from beginning to finish (still blows my mind) but that's usually the exception more than the norm. When it does happen, though, it's a beautiful thing. However, the best thing about SwiftKey is its auto correction. I don't know what it is in the programming or algorithm, but it just knows exactly what you meant to type, and 99% of the time will auto correct to the exact word you wanted. The typing experience on Android is not just a minor improvement over iPhone's, it's an ocean of a difference. This is without mentioning customizable dictionary (I had to wipe my iOS keyboard's dictionary every now and then to get rid of saved typos--utterly stupid to not give the user control over this), and customizable long press times for secondary symbols, customizable keyboard layouts, skins, etc. I could go on and on.

I definitely get what you mean about feeling connected. That's the beauty of Android and its freedom of choice and customization. It isn't just about aesthetics. Customizing what lock screen shows when you wake your device, what information is on your home screen, what keyboard you want to use, what browser launches when you click a link, etc... all go a long way into making the device 100% catered to you and your needs, not just in looks, but in usability.

It makes the device uniquely yours.

iEnvy
Nov 1, 2012, 10:25 AM
It makes the device uniquely yours.

Thank you for your well thought out opinion:)

Just one thing I have to point out... you make me want to switch even more now :o Going to anticipate those Nexus 4 reviews now

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 10:44 AM
Thank you for your well thought out opinion:)

Just one thing I have to point out... you make me want to switch even more now :o Going to anticipate those Nexus 4 reviews now

Reviews will have to be very good for people to believe in the unlocked method.

thenaes
Nov 1, 2012, 11:53 AM
I'm definitely thinking of jumping ship too but am not sure which phone I want. I would probably be on AT&T... so either the GS3 or HTC One X(+). I'm just very interested in Android in general now. Seems to me like everything ICS and beyond has been pretty cool.

I do wish the Nexus 4 would be available on carriers, but I do understand why they had to do that because they would never be given full reign over them like Apple does.

dojoman
Nov 1, 2012, 01:28 PM
What innovations? Wireless charging? Face unlock? pfff. All I see is cheap device with no LTE.

TheHateMachine
Nov 1, 2012, 01:49 PM
The nexus4 doesn't have the build quality and premium feel of the iPhone. And android also doesn't have as much games as the iPhone.

Other than that yes it destroys the iphone5 and its unbelievable value

While I agree most Android devices are made of cheap plastics (Save Motorola who make solid feeling high end devices clad in rubberized metals and other good materials). Have you felt the Nexus 4 or seen the reviews of its build quality? Everyone said it is a solid phone with plenty of care put into its design and quality. Two glass panels with a Rubberized band between them. From what everyone seems to be saying it is a high end kit.

Stuntman06
Nov 1, 2012, 02:36 PM
It's huge to the experience. I've been using responsive Apple products for the majority of my tech life, and I couldn't imagine going to something with noticeably more latency. It would never be the sole reason, but it's definitely one of them.

Over a year ago, I compared an Android device side-by-side with an iOS device. It was my HTC Desire Z and my father-in-law's iPhone 4. I definitely noticed that scrolling was smother on the iPhone 4. Now, my SGS3 has closed the gap and it is only running ICS. My friend's Galaxy Nexus had JB and was a bit smoother.

If you are used to the iPhones, that extra bit of latency may be a turn off. I've gone the other way with smoother and smoother devices from a Nokia N97 to my SGS3, so any latency you may notice certainly doesn't bother me. The extra smoothness of the iPhone would not be enough to make me want an iPhone considering I would have to give up a lot more for what seems to me to be a very minor improvement.

I want an OS that I can feel connected to. Over the years, iOS just seems there. It gets the job done but I don't feel that "connection".

I think the best example in my case would be texting. Android has swype(I believe its called) that makes texting seem so streamlined and smooth, while with iOS, we've pretty much had the same bland experience with the idiotic autocorrect.

If you're an Android user, I love to hear your input on this. I've been considering jumping the fence.

I use an alternate keyboard for my phone. I personally like Thumb Keyboard over the Swype keyboards. I personally do not like auto-correct or text prediction. I find that it bothers me when I type something (usually an acronym I make up on the fly) with prediction and the phone is totally wrong on what it thinks I mean to type. It is expecially bothersome with Swype.

There are a number of alternate keyboards available for Android. Thumb even has different keyboard layout to choose from. I choose a split keyboard in landscape mode because I have such a large phone (SGS3). It makes reaching letters in the middle of the keyboard easier. Also, for the portrait keyboard, I use the split/stacked keyboard. The left-side keys are above the right side keys so that each individual key is wider. I have trouble with portrait keyboards because they are so narrow. There are several different landscape and portrait layout available to choose from. You can also scale them to be smaller and sometimes higher.

=====

On another note, I don't think that iOS is necessarily significantly less buggy than Android. From my experience, some iOS devices do slow down over time and have issues such as crashing, just like Android devices. iOS doesn't always just work just like Android.

One significant difference between iOS and Android is how each OS handles a crash of some sort. When an iOS app crashes or force closes, iOS does its best to hide the fact that there was a problem with the app. You just go back to the home screen just as if you pressed the home key. It makes some users think that it is the user who did something wrong and that it wasn't a problem with the app.

Android on the other hand will actually display a message saying that there was a problem with the app. Then the user gets the opportunity to add more information on what happened prior to the app crashing. The user can then send this information as well as other system info to the developer, so that the developer has some information to perhaps update the app to fix the issue.

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 02:51 PM
Thumb Keyboard is an excellent alternative keyboard.

viskon
Nov 1, 2012, 02:54 PM
One complaint I have had with Apple has been their attitude to Adobe Flash. The technical reason, or so I have read, is that Flash is a memory hog.

If that is true, a customer-centric response, IMO, would have been for Apple to increase RAM memory in Apples devices so that customers could enjoy a rich web experience . Instead, there was an anti-Flash campaign that painted Flash as a bad guy and Apple got away with it.

I have used Adobe Flash extensively in my Android devices. Never had any issues. Sorry to see mobile Flash die.

Dave.UK
Nov 1, 2012, 03:55 PM
What innovations? Wireless charging? Face unlock? pfff. All I see is cheap device with no LTE.

Imagine how great these would be though if it was the other way around :rolleyes:

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 05:53 PM
The question of "what innovation?" would be more aptly asked of iOS 6.

And I know it's too early to even predict but according to today's ny times article the "overhaul" of iOS under the helm of Ive may focus primarily on aesthetics. Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't want to shake up ios too much. Doesn't sound good for those looking for some major changes. I'm still excited to see what they do though with ios 7.

cynics
Nov 1, 2012, 09:24 PM
What innovations? Wireless charging? Face unlock? pfff. All I see is cheap device with no LTE.

This is a VERY good point. Thank you for pointing it out.

The 4S doesn't have any of those features (wireless charging, face unlock) OR LTE! But is still a lot more expensive!

iPhone 4S 16gb = $549.00
Nexus 4 16gb = $349.00

I enjoy my 4S but this thing is old school tech by today's standards. Unsubsidized is an absolute ripped off and I pity the person that pays it.

zbarvian
Nov 1, 2012, 09:34 PM
This is a VERY good point. Thank you for pointing it out.

The 4S doesn't have any of those features (wireless charging, face unlock) OR LTE! But is still a lot more expensive!

iPhone 4S 16gb = $549.00
Nexus 4 16gb = $349.00

I enjoy my 4S but this thing is old school tech by today's standards. Unsubsidized is an absolute ripped off and I pity the person that pays it.

It's not a rip-off. Apple is profiting from sales, Google isn't.

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 09:44 PM
This is a VERY good point. Thank you for pointing it out.

The 4S doesn't have any of those features (wireless charging, face unlock) OR LTE! But is still a lot more expensive!

iPhone 4S 16gb = $549.00
Nexus 4 16gb = $349.00

I enjoy my 4S but this thing is old school tech by today's standards. Unsubsidized is an absolute ripped off and I pity the person that pays it.


Up until the day before October 13th (or whenever the iPhone 5 was released) that 4S was $649.

And you know what? It'll be $549 until the day the 5S is available, despite changes in production cost. Come the day before October 13, 2013 -- theoretical day the 5S is released -- that two+ year old 4S will still be $549.

Think about it, people.

cynics
Nov 1, 2012, 09:56 PM
It's not a rip-off. Apple is profiting from sales, Google isn't.

Yes it is a rip off. Less then 100 more gets you the same storage size iPad 3 with LTE. Hahah

You would have to be in utter and complete denial to think:

3.5" to 9.8" retina
3G to LTE
512 ram to 1 gb ram
A5 to A5X
SGX543MP2 to SGX543MP4

Is only 80 bucks. Or without LTE is 50 cheaper then the outdated 4S!

It's no secret that apple has a 50% profit margin which is in fact a rip off for a Chinese assembled electronic device. This is all apple products, not just the iPhone. 550 is just too much for last years model in the tech world. Just like the massive price difference in ANYTHING tech, TV's, processors, ram, etc etc. Last years tech is inexpensive and this years isn't.

Btw. I don't know how much google is or isn't making. I'm just saying Apples hardware price is way too high. MAYBE if the 4S was 450 (400 would be better) then I could understand them wanting to profit. But 549? No way...

ChrisTX
Nov 1, 2012, 10:12 PM
iOS has become stale, and this is coming from someone who has been using Macs since the early 2k's. Firing Scott Forstall was the second best thing they could have done behind firing John Browett.

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 10:42 PM
iOS has become stale, and this is coming from someone who has been using Macs since the early 2k's. Firing Scott Forstall was the second best thing they could have done behind firing John Browett.


By all early indications, the changes Ive will bring to iOS are mainly aesthetics. Not sure if that'll be enough. Of course, no one knows for sure what will end up being what.

I'm excited, but cautiously optimistic. And in the mean time... Android is sailing away and ahead.

ReanimationN
Nov 2, 2012, 08:57 AM
Good point.

Any luck finding the numbers of the input difference? I can't find any.

EDIT: This is all I could find from Google's developer website:

To ensure a consistent framerate, Android 4.1 extends vsync timing across all drawing and animation done by the Android framework. Everything runs in lockstep against a 16 millisecond vsync heartbeat — application rendering, touch events, screen composition, and display refresh — so frames don’t get ahead or behind.

Not even sure what any of that means or how that compares to iOS.

EDIT2: Found this regarding iPhone 5's touch response:

Display response time

iPhone 5: average 23 milliseconds

http://iphone-myspace.blogspot.com/2012/09/compared-to-apple-iphone-5-display.html

So... is higher better? Shouldn't lower response time be better? Or do those measurements having nothing to do with touch response time?

There is no way in this world that 16 millisecond figure you quoted translates into real world use (if that's what it means, I'm not sure either). If I can see the screen lagging behind my finger, it's much more than a 16 millisecond lag.

That's pretty awesome if what your second link says is true, that Nokia phones running WP8 have an even better response time than iPhones- MS sound like they've done a good job with WP8. Pity they took so long to get them out the door.

ChrisTX
Nov 2, 2012, 11:22 AM
By all early indications, the changes Ive will bring to iOS are mainly aesthetics. Not sure if that'll be enough. Of course, no one knows for sure what will end up being what.

I'm excited, but cautiously optimistic. And in the mean time... Android is sailing away and ahead.

As much as I hate it too, I spend the better half of the last 5 or so years defending the iPhone against Android, and rightfully so. But with the latest iPhone 5, and even iOS6 it just seems like more of the same. On the iOS 6 front, it's certainly been a bit of a headache for me on my iPad with intermittent wifi connectivity, though that has suddenly changed all of the sudden. Android is offering something uniquely different, and a lot of iPhone users such as myself wanted something radically different, and it just wan't there with the iPhone 5. I hope that Ive, and the rest of the team can breathe new life into the iOS ecosystem.

cynics
Nov 2, 2012, 11:32 AM
There is no way in this world that 16 millisecond figure you quoted translates into real world use (if that's what it means, I'm not sure either). If I can see the screen lagging behind my finger, it's much more than a 16 millisecond lag.

That's pretty awesome if what your second link says is true, that Nokia phones running WP8 have an even better response time than iPhones- MS sound like they've done a good job with WP8. Pity they took so long to get them out the door.

Responsiveness and the screen lagging behind your finger are probably too different things. I feel like screen size makes a big difference too, my 4S feels a lot more responsive then my iPad 3 and my now sold iPad 2 did. Mostly because and like you said I can see the screen behind my finger movement more....not due to hardware but the gap is more noticeable on a larger screen.

I noticed this on my now sold OG Razr and my still current Xoom....

I can notice a difference between Android and iOS but I could not possibly consider that to be a deal breaker. And I'm using an old Xoom (tegra 2) with ICS (4.0.4). So I'm sure I'll find the difference even less noticeable on a more powerful device running 4.1+.

onthecouchagain
Nov 2, 2012, 12:01 PM
I can notice a difference between Android and iOS but I could not possibly consider that to be a deal breaker.

Nor I.

What Android offers makes it up in spades.

----------

Regarding responsiveness of the Nexus 4:

"I can say that performance and responsiveness on the device is second to none. It's a very speedy phone that barely ever hesitated or failed to respond to my touches or commands. In particular, multitasking between a number of applications was no issue for the phone, buoyed up — I presume — by that generous 2GB of RAM." -Verge

"Software" and "Performance" got perfect 10's.

This from SlashGear:

"No matter the app or the complexity of the webpage, the Nexus 4 whipped through with zero lag or delay. It’s fast and responsive, and a great playing ground for the new version of Jelly Bean."

ReanimationN
Nov 2, 2012, 12:21 PM
Responsiveness and the screen lagging behind your finger are probably too different things. I feel like screen size makes a big difference too, my 4S feels a lot more responsive then my iPad 3 and my now sold iPad 2 did. Mostly because and like you said I can see the screen behind my finger movement more....not due to hardware but the gap is more noticeable on a larger screen.
Nah, it's not that. It's not only my iPhone 5 that I'm comparing my N7 to- my brother has an iPad 2 and my girlfriend has an iPad 3, they both perform far, far better than my Nexus. As did the Windows 8 tablet I tried, Android is far behind both in performance.

raptorstv
Nov 2, 2012, 12:28 PM
The iPhone is doomed!!!
http://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-galaxy-s4-specs-features-include-5-inch-display-exynos-5450-processor-126575/

sc4rf4c3
Nov 2, 2012, 12:39 PM
The iPhone is doomed!!!
http://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-galaxy-s4-specs-features-include-5-inch-display-exynos-5450-processor-126575/

I doubt the screen size would be 5" because it would kill the Galaxy Note.

jeremiah256
Nov 2, 2012, 01:49 PM
Do I feel I'm being jibbed as an iPhone user? No. I look at the iPhone as an appendage of my computer, a MBP. And until there is another computer out there that provides me the dependability, power, and integration that I get from my MBP, I can't see myself by going with any other phone. It also works with another part of my Apple infrastructure, my Apple TV. I know Google TV is coming along, but having the ability to stream video and audio, integrated simply in the operating system of both iOS and Mac OS is killer for my family.

That said, 9 out of 10 people should pick Android over iPhone. Why? If your only computer is going to be your phone, or you use a Windows computer like the majority of the world, Android does everything anyone could possibly want. It is the perfect choice for most.

In fact, if Google ever provides a reliable verision of Airplay, and I finally make up my mind to shift from the 'laptop as main computer' model to a 'netbook plus home server model', I'd probably shift to Android.

onthecouchagain
Nov 2, 2012, 02:04 PM
It's huge to the experience. I've been using responsive Apple products for the majority of my tech life, and I couldn't imagine going to something with noticeably more latency. It would never be the sole reason, but it's definitely one of them.

Yo Z... might interest you since this is one of the few things you list is standing in your way of going Android.

Regarding responsiveness of the Nexus 4:

"I can say that performance and responsiveness on the device is second to none. It's a very speedy phone that barely ever hesitated or failed to respond to my touches or commands. In particular, multitasking between a number of applications was no issue for the phone, buoyed up — I presume — by that generous 2GB of RAM." -Verge

"Software" and "Performance" got perfect 10's.

Perhaps this will shorten your list.

EDIT: And this from SlashGear:

"No matter the app or the complexity of the webpage, the Nexus 4 whipped through with zero lag or delay. It’s fast and responsive, and a great playing ground for the new version of Jelly Bean."

apb89
Nov 2, 2012, 02:27 PM
Do I feel I'm being jibbed as an iPhone user? No. I look at the iPhone as an appendage of my computer, a MBP. And until there is another computer out there that provides me the dependability, power, and integration that I get from my MBP, I can't see myself by going with any other phone. It also works with another part of my Apple infrastructure, my Apple TV. I know Google TV is coming along, but having the ability to stream video and audio, integrated simply in the operating system of both iOS and Mac OS is killer for my family.

That said, 9 out of 10 people should pick Android over iPhone. Why? If your only computer is going to be your phone, or you use a Windows computer like the majority of the world, Android does everything anyone could possibly want. It is the perfect choice for most.

In fact, if Google ever provides a reliable verision of Airplay, and I finally make up my mind to shift from the 'laptop as main computer' model to a 'netbook plus home server model', I'd probably shift to Android.

This pretty much sums up my position, as well. Thanks for posting this.

ReanimationN
Nov 2, 2012, 09:26 PM
Yo Z... might interest you since this is one of the few things you list is standing in your way of going Android.

Regarding responsiveness of the Nexus 4:

"I can say that performance and responsiveness on the device is second to none. It's a very speedy phone that barely ever hesitated or failed to respond to my touches or commands. In particular, multitasking between a number of applications was no issue for the phone, buoyed up — I presume — by that generous 2GB of RAM." -Verge

"Software" and "Performance" got perfect 10's.

Perhaps this will shorten your list.
That's the kind of review that led me to buy the N7, what was said in reviews wasn't true at all. While it's entirely possible that the N4 is lag free, I'd implore anyone reading this, lurkers and members, to give any Android device they're considering buying a good test run before purchasing. Make sure performance in the OS is lag free- compare it to an iOS or Windows device if you have one on hand, make sure all the apps you use and want are available in the Play Store and are compatible with the device (be very careful with country-specific apps, especially if you live in a smaller market like I do) and make sure you test the performance of those apps, even if you find the OS' performance adequate, each app's performance varies wildly. And if you have a friend who has owned said device for a while, even better- test how they perform after they've accumulated months of cruft.

Make sure you're 100% happy with it before buying it, otherwise you'll be in for disappointment, like I was.

SpyderBite
Nov 2, 2012, 09:29 PM
replace games with ecosystem. but they are interchangeable cause whenever people are talking about the great ecosystem of iOS, they are talking about the games.

Since when? Maybe I'm the exception but Notes, Calendar & Contacts are my biggest fuzzy feeling about the iOS/OS X ecosystem.

onthecouchagain
Nov 2, 2012, 10:09 PM
That's the kind of review that led me to buy the N7, what was said in reviews wasn't true at all.


Not sure which review you read, but for consistency's sake, I'm pulling the Nexus 7 review from The Verge:

Regarding Performance:

"Performance on the Nexus 7 was zippy. Snappy. Buttery, if you will. We already know that the Tegra 3 chipset is no slouch, and it felt particularly slouch-free on this tablet.

General OS performance was excellent — helped undoubtedly by Android 4.1 and its "Project Butter" initiative which is said to vastly improve touch response and smoothness in Android. Apps were also quick to open and close, and speedy in use. In particular, 3D gaming that was optimized for the Tegra chipset looked stunning and held steady frame rates, and basic tasks like multitasking were nearly instantaneous."


Here's Engadget's take on Project Butter:

"Sure, there are the occasional stutters and hiccups here that even a coating of Butter doesn't completely eliminate, but we've experienced those with even the top-shelf tablets"


Of course, I'm only checking two reviews. But neither of them say it's completely lag-free or perfect. Everywhere it does say Jelly Bean improves touch response and animations and smoothness. Basically, they're alluding to how close the competition is closing in on iOS' smoothness. As mentioned earlier in this thread, we are talking the differences of milliseconds.

But more simply put: No OS is lag free, not even iOS. But if Josh Topolsky can say "lag-free" and "response is second to none" in the Nexus 4 review, you can bet it's pretty near. Of course, no one outside of tech journalism knows for sure. Hopefully it is as good as they say, and as good as iOS.

Regarding the rest of your post, yes, people should do research, especially with Android when there are so many different choices and options.

blackhand1001
Nov 2, 2012, 10:31 PM
Since when? Maybe I'm the exception but Notes, Calendar & Contacts are my biggest fuzzy feeling about the iOS/OS X ecosystem.

Funny. I think those things are much better on android.

onthecouchagain
Nov 2, 2012, 10:41 PM
it's entirely possible that the N4 is lag free

Just to add to it, from SlashGear:

"No matter the app or the complexity of the webpage, the Nexus 4 whipped through with zero lag or delay. It’s fast and responsive, and a great playing ground for the new version of Jelly Bean."

Entirely possible, indeed.

ReanimationN
Nov 2, 2012, 11:53 PM
Not sure which review you read
NY Times:

"By far the most important change, however, is smoothness. Google engineers knocked themselves out trying to make Android 4.1 as responsive to your touch as, ahem, the other leading tablet. Animations all run at a supersmooth speed of 60 frames a second. Google says it tries to anticipate where your next finger touch will be, and begins to redraw the screen at that point.

Wow, does it work. Google’s tablet is now Applesque in its fluid touch response. All other makers of touch-screen gadgets should take note."

Gizmodo Australia:

"When you actually get down to using it, the new version of Android known as Jelly Bean, rewards you with super-fast performance coupled with smooth operation. Google tweaked a lot of things between Ice Cream Sandiwch and Jelly Bean — right down to new window animations — and that care really shows."

Techradar:

"Swiping through screens is fast and responsive – even on apps that haven't yet been updated for 4.1 – while flipping through one of the visually rich magazines now available from Google Play doesn't miss a beat. Ridiculous name aside, Project Butter delivers the goods."

PC World Australia:

"The main feature of Android Jelly Bean is what Google calls "Project Butter", which centres around making the software smoother, faster and fluid. The company claims using Jelly Bean feels a lot smoother than previous versions of the platform and we have to agree. This is by far the best version of Android yet. Using it on a day-to-day basis is smooth, intuitive and fast. There is no sign of any evident lag during everyday tasks. Home screens are butter smooth to swipe through, even with multiple widgets on the screens. Apps open quickly, with no delay. The default browser, Google Chrome, is fast, renders pages efficiently and offers good performance."

onthecouchagain
Nov 3, 2012, 12:10 AM
NY Times:

"By far the most important change, however, is smoothness. Google engineers knocked themselves out trying to make Android 4.1 as responsive to your touch as, ahem, the other leading tablet. Animations all run at a supersmooth speed of 60 frames a second. Google says it tries to anticipate where your next finger touch will be, and begins to redraw the screen at that point.

Wow, does it work. Google’s tablet is now Applesque in its fluid touch response. All other makers of touch-screen gadgets should take note."

Gizmodo Australia:

"When you actually get down to using it, the new version of Android known as Jelly Bean, rewards you with super-fast performance coupled with smooth operation. Google tweaked a lot of things between Ice Cream Sandiwch and Jelly Bean — right down to new window animations — and that care really shows."

Techradar:

"Swiping through screens is fast and responsive – even on apps that haven't yet been updated for 4.1 – while flipping through one of the visually rich magazines now available from Google Play doesn't miss a beat. Ridiculous name aside, Project Butter delivers the goods."

PC World Australia:

"The main feature of Android Jelly Bean is what Google calls "Project Butter", which centres around making the software smoother, faster and fluid. The company claims using Jelly Bean feels a lot smoother than previous versions of the platform and we have to agree. This is by far the best version of Android yet. Using it on a day-to-day basis is smooth, intuitive and fast. There is no sign of any evident lag during everyday tasks. Home screens are butter smooth to swipe through, even with multiple widgets on the screens. Apps open quickly, with no delay. The default browser, Google Chrome, is fast, renders pages efficiently and offers good performance."


Aside from "no evidence of lag" the reviews don't say it's lag-free. They all allude to improvements and reaching "apple-esque" quality, which I think is accurate.

These are different from reviews of the Nexus 4 actually saying it's lag-free, response being second to none, etc. Very different semantics and tone.

However, like I said, no OS is completely lag-free. Not iOS, not Android 4.2 The point is, the apparently major deal breaking disparity of millisecond-differences between the OS's is growing ever smaller --possibly to the point of indiscernable difference -- but if they make that much of a difference to you, that's all good, mate.

I'll take everything else Android offers.

ReanimationN
Nov 3, 2012, 01:06 AM
Aside from "no evidence of lag" the reviews don't say it's lag-free. They all allude to improvements and reaching "apple-esque" quality, which I think is accurate.
When reviews were saying that Android is now delivering "Apple-esque" "super fast performance" with "no sign of any evident lag", what was I meant to believe? Those are some pretty glowing superlatives and I was expecting what they said to be true. I was expecting much-improved Android responsiveness on par with iOS, as that's what many reviews said.
These are different from reviews of the Nexus 4 actually saying it's lag-free, response being second to none, etc. Very different semantics and tone.
I just quoted reviews which said the Nexus 7 had no lag and featured Apple-esque responsiveness, which is effectively what these reviews are saying. I have no reason to believe them after my experiences with my N7 and won't be until I try a Nexus 4 for myself.
However, like I said, no OS is completely lag-free. Not iOS, not Android 4.2 The point is, the apparently major deal breaking disparity of millisecond-differences between the OS's is growing ever smaller --possibly to the point of indiscernable difference -- but if they make that much of a difference to you, that's all good, mate.

I'll take everything else Android offers.
iOS and Windows 8 are lag free enough for any lag to be indiscernable, to me anyway. Android is nowhere near close. As I said, maybe the situation has improved with the N4 and 4.2, but it would have had to have improved by a lot to match iOS and W8.

onthecouchagain
Nov 3, 2012, 01:18 AM
Android is nowhere near close.

Speaking of hyperboles...

Fair enough.

Mr Rogers
Nov 3, 2012, 01:31 AM
No 4G LTE?

Do get real, 4G/LTE is not really that brilliant presently - well unless you are a millionaire and live where they have good 4LTE coverage - in the UK 4LTE has only just come online and its bloody expensive - 4LTE is also heavy on battery.

In terms of future proofing, yes the 4LTE may be a reason to purchase, but today, 4LTE just does not cut it, particularly in terms of cost of 3G and amount of data you can utilise free per month.

Hence, Google read the market correct, sell a reasonable priced phone with no 4G capability this year - launch 4G phone in 12 months time.

Also, whilst the fanbois's keep harking on about 4LTE, Apple initially launched the iPhone without any 3G option - where were you then with your complaints then.

For the money, the N4 beats the iPhone 5 hands down - I'll add this caveat though - both Apple and Google need to add more storage, 32G is an insult when games and movies are over 1G in size - we actually should be looking at 32G minimum in these devices with 128G the maximum - its not as if flash is that expensive anymore!!!!

SlCKB0Y
Nov 3, 2012, 02:50 AM
The nexus4 doesn't have the build quality and premium feel of the iPhone.

Really? exactly how and where were you able to physically inspect this unreleased device?

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Having owned android phone since 2007

That's astounding! Especially considering the HTC Dream (the first Android handset), didn't come out until late Oct 2008...thats nearly 2009...

SlCKB0Y
Nov 3, 2012, 03:15 AM
And I'm using an old Xoom (tegra 2) with ICS (4.0.4). So I'm sure I'll find the difference even less noticeable on a more powerful device running 4.1+.

Oh wow, you really should update it to 4.1.2 - it runs much, much faster.

The Xoom has gotten better and better with every release and was definitely the pick of the first gen honeycomb tablets. How many of the owners of the other HC tablets have stock JB? zero...

:cool:

wknapp0924
Nov 5, 2012, 12:32 PM
Do get real, 4G/LTE is not really that brilliant presently - well unless you are a millionaire and live where they have good 4LTE coverage - in the UK 4LTE has only just come online and its bloody expensive - 4LTE is also heavy on battery.

In terms of future proofing, yes the 4LTE may be a reason to purchase, but today, 4LTE just does not cut it, particularly in terms of cost of 3G and amount of data you can utilise free per month.

Hence, Google read the market correct, sell a reasonable priced phone with no 4G capability this year - launch 4G phone in 12 months time.

Also, whilst the fanbois's keep harking on about 4LTE, Apple initially launched the iPhone without any 3G option - where were you then with your complaints then.


For the money, the N4 beats the iPhone 5 hands down - I'll add this caveat though - both Apple and Google need to add more storage, 32G is an insult when games and movies are over 1G in size - we actually should be looking at 32G minimum in these devices with 128G the maximum - its not as if flash is that expensive anymore!!!!

Well I live in a highly saturated 4GLTE zone and It is amazing how fast I can do simple web searches now, so it is a big deal in my case.

It is a phone, not a computer. 32GB is perfect for me, and If I need to add some movies before I go on a trip I just sync it with a real COMPUTER.