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JonL12345
Nov 1, 2012, 11:04 AM
This spells trouble for Apple. You can get a Nexus 4 16gb + a Nexus 10 16gb - both products which have superior hardware specs than the iphone 5 and ipad - for the same price as an iphone 5 32gb.

Apple is pricing for profitability (i.e. leech the customers dry) while LG/Samsung/Google is pricing for market share.

Discuss.

Jon



nickn
Nov 1, 2012, 11:06 AM
Shhhh.... Logic is not allowed on this forum, unless it is pro Apple. Really, the Nexus 4 is nice, but it is absolutely absurd that it doesn't include LTE support. Google could have sold far more had they included it.

GoCubsGo
Nov 1, 2012, 11:06 AM
For me though, it doesn't have iOS which is what I prefer. Unfortunately, we have to pay much too high of a premium for that.

JonL12345
Nov 1, 2012, 11:10 AM
Just use an Apple iOS clone skin for the Android. Then you can have the look and feel for nothing extra.

Technarchy
Nov 1, 2012, 11:20 AM
Last I checked, Apple has fought off bargain basement alternatives since the 80's. How is this anything new?

You read it often enough in the PC sphere, only iOS products are more cost accessible so the cheaper alternatives will have an even harder time against Apple.

jsw
Nov 1, 2012, 11:26 AM
Shhhh.... Logic is not allowed on this forum, unless it is pro Apple. Really, the Nexus 4 is nice, but it is absolutely absurd that it doesn't include LTE support. Google could have sold far more had they included it.
I completely agree that LTE would have sold more units, but for me it's not a big deal. My brother has a grandfathered unlimited data plan on Verizon's LTE, and clearly he'd have no reason to get this, but I'd be fine with it.

However, as much as I love my Nexus 7, I'm not yet ready to switch from iOS for my phone. Maybe i will be soon, maybe I never will be. But for those who want an Android phone, the 4 is amazing, especially for the unlocked price.

----------

Last I checked, Apple has fought off bargain basement alternatives since the 80's. How is this anything new?

You read it often enough in the PC sphere, only iOS products are more cost accessible so the cheaper alternatives will have an even harder time against Apple.
That really doesn't explain the dominance of Android smartphones. Apple's profits are better, and for Apple, that's great, but it's hard to argue that "cheaper alternatives will have an even harder time against Apple" when they are, in fact, outnumbering iOS devices by a large margin.

sentinelsx
Nov 1, 2012, 11:32 AM
I would have no issues buying an android phone as they seem to have matured so fast and really come toe to toe or even surpass competitors.

However, i consider a tablet to be a productive tool than just a browser/movie viewer and that is where ipads win. And that is where win RT/pro will win too in the future. I simply cannot justify buying a cheap nexus or another tablet at all.

Things like paper, goodreader, many professional apps for medical and engineering etc. Despite android being "techy", developers target small audiences using an ipad instead of an android tablet in my experience.

I remember using adobe PDF suite on my S3 in the past and how excruciating it was, took 5 seconds just to load up my paltry collection of about 15 documents i had loaded onto the phone and then lacked many features for which i had to get yet another app to fill the void too.

Then recently i tested the "iOS is too limited" hypothesis by loading up our technical manuals and other docs on to the iPhone and sharing them between apps, dropbox and goodreader (goodreader pretty much covers everything, so i don't even consider another app lol), and the experience was not as appalling as i thought it would be. Stuff being edited on goodreader showed up on my PC without hesitation thanks to the integration of dropbox, the app, and the PC (although goodreader alone can upload and share to many configurations).

Windows tablets have more potential to capture the software niche and indie space IMO. I would say Apple should be worried about MS in the future considering how well the RT tabs are being received, if they had all those ipad type quality apps there already, consider how much better they would be already than android tablets.

At least in phone space android is doing fine because anything other than music, some browsing, casual gaming, social stuff and calling etc is terrible on such a small screen and the above are all taken care of by the phones fine.

JonL12345
Nov 1, 2012, 11:50 AM
@sentinelsx, I agree with much of what you say and Microsoft has done a great job with advertising their new swish Surface proposition.

Yes, for me too a tablet should be more productive. But this is where we differ. Because the Android tablets are more customisable, I can set them up in a way that it is more productive for me. e.g. homescreens for different purposes such as work, home, finance, games, etc. Or, even use the new Profiles with one for work, another for leisure and so on.

The iPad has a head start in apps, granted. However, I predict a huge surge of Android tablet apps bursting onto the market as developers seek to take advantage of the current void in that area. Less competition means potential to make more money. Watched it happen.

Grolubao
Nov 1, 2012, 11:53 AM
I'm actually very happy that they didn't included LTE. Here in Europe it's a big mess, there's no real standard on LTE, so it only works in some countries.

So to have a functionality that I cannot use just to chew on battery? No thanks

sentinelsx
Nov 1, 2012, 12:05 PM
@sentinelsx, I agree with much of what you say and Microsoft has done a great job with advertising their new swish Surface proposition.

Yes, for me too a tablet should be more productive. But this is where we differ. Because the Android tablets are more customisable, I can set them up in a way that it is more productive for me. e.g. homescreens for different purposes such as work, home, finance, games, etc. Or, even use the new Profiles with one for work, another for leisure and so on.

The iPad has a head start in apps, granted. However, I predict a huge surge of Android tablet apps bursting onto the market as developers seek to take advantage of the current void in that area. Less competition means potential to make more money. Watched it happen.

Yeah but customization is more about making it pretty than productive IMO. My windows PC is hardly customized (choosing a different wallpaper every few months) despite tons of customization tools available on windows since windows 98.

When i spend 99% of my time doing something in an app, i hardly care about whether my home screen style is customized or not :)

surjavarman
Nov 1, 2012, 12:14 PM
Yeah but customization is more about making it pretty than productive IMO. My windows PC is hardly customized (choosing a different wallpaper every few months) despite tons of customization tools available on windows since windows 98.

When i spend 99% of my time doing something in an app, i hardly care about whether my home screen style is customized or not :)

i am not using any customization either. I don't even use widgets. Whenever I get a notification I just read it on the spot or i click on it and it will open the app for me.

I am annoyed that there are hardly any games for android. not as much as on the iPhone

cynics
Nov 1, 2012, 12:37 PM
How is Dropbox integrated with iOS? I find it to be a hassle. I open up a PDF on the web, then open it up in adobe then finally I have the option to save it to drop box. I still haven't found a way to save it locally.

Then the lack of USB hosting hurts me even further. I can't save it to a flash drive nor can I plug in a mouse to my iPad to use it like a PC/Mac. My iPhone ends up being a middle man, a means to an end really.

I use my iPad for browsing the web and games. I use my Android tablet as a file system with hundreds of PDF's I use for schematics.

I know a lot of companies have proprietary apps for business use and that's great but the company I work for doesn't and the trivial stuff really isn't that trivial. My gf uses an iPad as a nurse but that's it, she has no use for those apps once she's off. She uses the iPad 3 I gifted to her to browse the web and social networking.

Back on topic. I think it's an excellent deal. After getting used to Apples prices its mind blowing to see prices from the real world. In my usage I don't find Android to be inferior so it makes Apple devices look out of sight, just like a Mac vs a PC.

poobear
Nov 1, 2012, 12:52 PM
Nexus is really expensive over here in Scandinavia :/

How is Dropbox integrated with iOS? I find it to be a hassle. I open up a PDF on the web, then open it up in adobe then finally I have the option to save it to drop box. I still haven't found a way to save it locally.
If you open a PDF in Safari on iOS you have the option to send it to Dropbox. In Dropbox you can mark it as a "favourite" which downloads it locally. If you don't have Dropbox you can save it locally to any other PDF viewer, e.g. iBooks.

frayne182
Nov 1, 2012, 01:10 PM
Shhhh.... Logic is not allowed on this forum, unless it is pro Apple. Really, the Nexus 4 is nice, but it is absolutely absurd that it doesn't include LTE support. Google could have sold far more had they included it.

I know what you mean... but at the same time its a great phone for $299. Unlocked!


Its missing features yes.. but for someone that doesn't want to be tied down its great.

I was very surprised by that move

Technarchy
Nov 1, 2012, 01:12 PM
That really doesn't explain the dominance of Android smartphones.

About as irrelevant as generic laptop Windows sales x vs Apple laptop sales.

There's always been cheaper alternatives. Who cares? Sometimes vastly cheaper in fact. It's never mattered before and it doesn't matter now, even if nexus is printed on it.

dojoman
Nov 1, 2012, 01:26 PM
Irrelevant. There are $69 Android tablets out there.

jsw
Nov 1, 2012, 01:37 PM
About as irrelevant as generic laptop Windows sales x vs Apple laptop sales.

There's always been cheaper alternatives. Who cares? Sometimes vastly cheaper in fact. It's never mattered before and it doesn't matter now, even if nexus is printed on it.
It's relevant because those cheaper alternatives are arguably as good. Generic Windows systems with bloatware are not analogous to a Nexus device running pure Jelly Bean. If you are not a mobile gamer - and the vast majority of phone buyers aren't - then the advantages of iOS over Android are growing slimmer each passing month, and the cost differential is less and less defensible.

A PC equivalent to my MacBook Air (or Pro) is going to cost as much or more and will run an OS that's not as well integrated. On the other hand, a phone equivalent to the iPhone 5 costs less and runs an OS that is in ways preferable.

nickn
Nov 1, 2012, 02:09 PM
I know what you mean... but at the same time its a great phone for $299. Unlocked!


Its missing features yes.. but for someone that doesn't want to be tied down its great.

I was very surprised by that move

It's a nice phone, but it not exactly revolutionary. I purchased my HTC Evo 3D off contract on Virgin Mobile several months ago for $299, and while it doesn't have a quad core CPU or 2GB RAM, it does have 4G WiMax support, a 3D screen, an FM radio, a SD slot, and a few other goodies. People who wanted a high end phone off contract could have already gone for that or other alternatives such as the GSII on Boost, so i'm not really sure who the Nexus is geared towards. Techy people will be disappointed with no LTE, and smart contract free people or other "cheapos" likely already purchased another handset.

sc4rf4c3
Nov 1, 2012, 02:40 PM
It's a nice phone, but it not exactly revolutionary. I purchased my HTC Evo 3D off contract on Virgin Mobile several months ago for $299, and while it doesn't have a quad core CPU or 2GB RAM, it does have 4G WiMax support, a 3D screen, an FM radio, a SD slot, and a few other goodies. People who wanted a high end phone off contract could have already gone for that or other alternatives such as the GSII on Boost, so i'm not really sure who the Nexus is geared towards. Techy people will be disappointed with no LTE, and smart contract free people or other "cheapos" likely already purchased another handset.

LTE doesn't matter to me especially with AT&T. I have unlimited data and they've been throttling users since last year after they used 2GB of data. I have to use a different apn to avoid being throttled.

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 02:46 PM
Yeah but customization is more about making it pretty than productive IMO.

I disagree. Customization is so much more than just aesthetics.

Customizing what lock screen shows when you wake your device, what information is on your home screen, what keyboard you want to use, what browser launches when you click a link, etc... all go a long way in making the device 100% catered to you and your needs, not just in looks, but in usability.

It makes the device uniquely yours.

MikeAK
Nov 1, 2012, 02:48 PM
It's amazing to step back and look at just how much of a premium people are paying just for the OS. I think some people don't even want to give Android a chance because then they'll have to admit that over paid for an Apple product. Nobody likes to admit they were taken for a ride. Yes there once was a time that Google and Android were nowhere close to Apple but they have come a long way through trial and error. In my opinion Android has finally matured and the price difference is just too much to pass up.

jsw
Nov 1, 2012, 02:52 PM
I disagree. Customization is so much more than just aesthetics.

Customizing what lock screen shows when you wake your device, what information is on your home screen, what keyboard you want to use, what browser launches when you click a link, etc... all go a long way in making the device 100% catered to you and your needs, not just in looks, but in usability.

It makes the device uniquely yours.
Exactly. It's not a matter of endlessly tweaking screen savers and icons for me - it's having the device learn what I like over time, and me being able to make changes to better suit how I want to work. It's a lot like a jailbroken iPhone in that sense (which is why my iPhone is jailbroken), but without the need to jailbreak.

sentinelsx
Nov 1, 2012, 04:08 PM
I disagree. Customization is so much more than just aesthetics.

Customizing what lock screen shows when you wake your device, what information is on your home screen, what keyboard you want to use, what browser launches when you click a link, etc... all go a long way in making the device 100% catered to you and your needs, not just in looks, but in usability.

It makes the device uniquely yours.

Well the lock screen should show me notifications, and thankfully iOS does it as well as windows phone 8 (and 7 and 7.5 :P)

Home screen, same thing. My devices have always been grids of icons irrespective of OS because neither of them has live icons or another better way of managing content. Widgets are cool but once i realize i always press on the widget to enter the app because the widget fails to be productive, they are deleted, and has happened with all widgets so far. This is where WP7/8 shines and takes the cake IMO. Not only live tiles serve as icons, but the unique way in which they show information is more useful especially when all third party developers take advantage of it.

Not sure about the browser thing here as i don't see how safari on iOS is that bad. Both chrome and atomic on my iOS device are showing the new band on the icons for the last three weeks lol. On android i always preferred the stock browser too (samsung's devices always have a better browser than many others for some reason) so i guess i am not the target here.

And lastly for making my device unique, it would matter to me if it was a collector's item, not a work tool. I cringe everytime i see badly done UIs or those hideous cases on phones (doesn't matter whichever) which completely negates why i even bought the device in the first place.

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 05:45 PM
Well the lock screen should show me notifications, and thankfully iOS does it as well as windows phone 8 (and 7 and 7.5 :P)

Home screen, same thing. My devices have always been grids of icons irrespective of OS because neither of them has live icons or another better way of managing content. Widgets are cool but once i realize i always press on the widget to enter the app because the widget fails to be productive, they are deleted, and has happened with all widgets so far. This is where WP7/8 shines and takes the cake IMO. Not only live tiles serve as icons, but the unique way in which they show information is more useful especially when all third party developers take advantage of it.

Not sure about the browser thing here as i don't see how safari on iOS is that bad. Both chrome and atomic on my iOS device are showing the new band on the icons for the last three weeks lol. On android i always preferred the stock browser too (samsung's devices always have a better browser than many others for some reason) so i guess i am not the target here.

And lastly for making my device unique, it would matter to me if it was a collector's item, not a work tool. I cringe everytime i see badly done UIs or those hideous cases on phones (doesn't matter whichever) which completely negates why i even bought the device in the first place.

You're describing precisely the freedom that is missing from ios.

Those additional features and options don't work for you. They may work for others. You have the choice to not use them. Others who find benefits have the choice to use them.

Isn't freedom of choice a beautiful thing.

sentinelsx
Nov 1, 2012, 09:49 PM
You're describing precisely the freedom that is missing from ios.

Those additional features and options don't work for you. They may work for others. You have the choice to not use them. Others who find benefits have the choice to use them.

Isn't freedom of choice a beautiful thing.

Well where is my freedom of choice to use all the awesome and productive apps i need and want to use on android then?

Vegastouch
Nov 1, 2012, 09:53 PM
Shhhh.... Logic is not allowed on this forum, unless it is pro Apple. Really, the Nexus 4 is nice, but it is absolutely absurd that it doesn't include LTE support. Google could have sold far more had they included it.

It is going on sale all over the world next month. I think on the 14th. There was a reason why they didnt include LTE. Maybe you should search and find out why.
Maybe they will release a LTE version down the road but they are thinking of the world, not just a couple of USA carriers. I dont have LTE on T-Mobile but HSPA+ is pretty fast so i dont care that it dont have it.

----------

This spells trouble for Apple. You can get a Nexus 4 16gb + a Nexus 10 16gb - both products which have superior hardware specs than the iphone 5 and ipad - for the same price as an iphone 5 32gb.

Apple is pricing for profitability (i.e. leech the customers dry) while LG/Samsung/Google is pricing for market share.

Discuss.

Jon

Yep, i can get a N4 and a 32 GB N7 for $600.

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 10:03 PM
It is going on sale all over the world next month. I think on the 14th. There was a reason why they didnt include LTE. Maybe you should search and find out why.
Maybe they will release a LTE version down the road but they are thinking of the world, not just a couple of USA carriers. I dont have LTE on T-Mobile but HSPA+ is pretty fast so i dont care that it dont have it.

Don't forget to add the 15+ hour talk time and 330 hours standby time you gain for losing LTE! Nearly double that of the iPhone's talk time.

nickn
Nov 1, 2012, 10:06 PM
I dont have LTE on T-Mobile but HSPA+ is pretty fast so i dont care that it dont have it.

The problem is that LTE is so fast, HSPA anything simply can't compare at this point. Take a look at the LTE Speedtest thread on the iPhone board. A good half of the people on there seem to be getting at least 40mbps down, with some getting even better. Can T go the speeds shown in the pics below?
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=363250&d=1348637305
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366396&d=1349373005
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366374&d=1349369099

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 10:14 PM
Well where is my freedom of choice to use all the awesome and productive apps i need and want to use on android then?

I'm not the Play Store. Research alternatives yourself or when developers will bring their apps to Android. Everywhere I read about this major disparity of apps, there are usually alternatives for them.

No one is knocking the one thing Apple happens to offer more choices in. But I think the tides are shifting very fast in terms of app selection and app quality (700,000 plus just announced, 75% marketshare just announced, Nexus line taking off). If freedom of apps trumps all the other freedoms Android offers you, it sounds like iOS is perfect for you.

I'm merely pointing out that all you were doing in the original post I quoted was demonstrating choice. You weren't making any points against it.

----------

The problem is that LTE is so fast, HSPA anything simply can't compare at this point. Take a look at the LTE Speedtest thread on the iPhone board. A good half of the people on there seem to be getting at least 40mbps down, with some getting even better. Can T go the speeds shown in the pics below?
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=363250&d=1348637305
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366396&d=1349373005
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366374&d=1349369099

When a website loads in seconds on HSPA+ (and they do) the difference in speed will still be in seconds.

No one is denying LTE is faster. It's faster by a lot. But in real world use, webpages load in seconds anyway on HSPA+. How dramatic of a difference can those download speeds make in the span of a few seconds? What's the difference within those few seconds? The answer: seconds!

Same thing with streaming. You still listen to things at the same pace. If HSPA+ is loading it fast enough for you to watch or listen, that is more than sufficient. Even if you want to skip to another area, HSPA+ will simply load that area in seconds too.

Apps? Ditto. I pull download speeds of 6-9 MB/s on HSPA+. How many times will I download apps significantly larger than 6-9 MBs? And if I do, it's an additional few ... guess what?... seconds.

I understand that these differences are deal breakers for people. And I have said a number of times, Google should try to forge relations with carriers to release LTE and CDMA specific versions, especially in the years to come.

Personally, I'll take the difference of seconds for nearly double the battery life any day.

nickn
Nov 1, 2012, 10:25 PM
Personally, I'll take the difference of seconds for nearly double the battery life any day.

On my WiMax Evo 3D, the user can turn off the WiMax chipset and revert to CDMA Rev B comms for better battery life. Can other Android users not turn off LTE on their phones in the same fashion to save battery? Look, at this point, you are right. HSPA+ is acceptable, and pages do load fast. What i'm thinking though, is down the road. What about next year, or the year after? Around four or so years ago, I got a 3mbps DSL line installed to my home. While cable was faster, I didn't really see any problem with the slower speeds DSL had. Fast forward to 2012 with HD Netflix streams, 24MP photos that are near 20Mb a piece, and muti GB game downloads for my Xbox 360, and I had a problem. Technology changes! Who knows what bandwidth intensive applications will be around in a few years. I would rather have the LTE capability now than have to repurchase a new handset in a few years when I find everything to be unacceptably slow.

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 10:36 PM
On my WiMax Evo 3D, the user can turn off the WiMax chipset and revert to CDMA Rev B comms for better battery life. Can other Android users not turn off LTE on their phones in the same fashion to save battery? Look, at this point, you are right. HSPA+ is acceptable, and pages do load fast. What i'm thinking though, is down the road. What about next year, or the year after? Around four or so years ago, I got a 3mbps DSL line installed to my home. While cable was faster, I didn't really see any problem with the slower speeds DSL had. Fast forward to 2012 with HD Netflix streams, 24MP photos that are near 20Mb a piece, and muti GB game downloads for my Xbox 360, and I had a problem. Technology changes! Who knows what bandwidth intensive applications will be around in a few years. I would rather have the LTE capability now than have to repurchase a new handset in a few years when I find everything to be unacceptably slow.


110% agree with you, as I said here:

I have said a number of times, Google should try to forge relations with carriers to release LTE and CDMA specific versions, especially in the years to come.

and here:

Google still has miles to pave. They need to forge better relations with the carriers so they can get LTE versions out to those who want that. And at this point and time, Google just doesn't have that sort of clout to put a device on a carrier and be in control of its software updates (the debacle with Verizon and the Galaxy Nexus, for example). For Google, if they can't control their own software and updates, there's almost no point in releasing a Nexus device to said carrier. It'll just make angry Nexus customers.

People ought to blame the carriers more than Google, but there's no shying away from the responsibilities; Google must forge relations.


And many times elsewhere on the forums. In agreement, mate.

ixodes
Nov 1, 2012, 10:44 PM
This spells trouble for Apple. You can get a Nexus 4 16gb + a Nexus 10 16gb - both products which have superior hardware specs than the iphone 5 and ipad - for the same price as an iphone 5 32gb.

Apple is pricing for profitability (i.e. leech the customers dry) while LG/Samsung/Google is pricing for market share.

Discuss.

Jon
It's just as you've stated. Apple values profits above all. Simply look at the massive revenue streams they have.

Google is more like other company's that strive to give value while also creating a revenue stream.

I was an Apple customer during their darkest days when it looked like they might fold, and _still_ they charged premium pricing. I give Apple credit even if I don't always agree with them. They've never wavered on their greed.

jsw
Nov 1, 2012, 10:46 PM
... Look, at this point, you are right. HSPA+ is acceptable, and pages do load fast. What i'm thinking though, is down the road. What about next year, or the year after?...
A couple of comments:

First, bear in mind that, unless Unlimited Data plans make a big comeback, faster access is simply going to allow you to hit those 3GB/5GB/whatever limits faster and then end up paying for more 1GB/etc chunks. Having slower (where "slower" is still many MB per second) connections aren't necessarily a bad thing in a world where you can hit your monthly cap and then exceed it in mere minutes with the faster speeds. This is very different than in the world of landline broadband, where caps are huge or nonexistent.

Second, mobile devices age quickly. Even if there's going to be a sea change a few years down the road, I don't think you'll be shooting yourself in the foot spending $300 now on an unlocked phone. I think the speed of the processor (or other features) will seem to be way more of an issue down the road than the download speeds, since 3G is fast enough for almost anything phone-based already (web/email/navigation/etc). Sure, HD movie streaming might (or might not) suffer, but who streams HD movies on their phones using their data plans, except those grandfathered into unlimited ones? I have an iPhone 3G. Its access speeds are comparable to those of my iPhone 4S (moderately slower, but not much in most areas). It's not the network speeds that make it seem old now - it's the screen, the processor, the memory capacity, and so on. That's going to be true of any device you buy now, and LTE won't make it take much (if any) longer to become obsolete.

joshwithachance
Nov 1, 2012, 11:00 PM
Too bad the Nexus 4 and 10 aren't as desirable as the iPhone 5 and iPad mini/4th Gen. This is Apple we're talking about here... Having cheaper products than their competitors was, and probably never will be, their game.

sotorious
Nov 1, 2012, 11:12 PM
I can not wait till nov 13 getting both of these and maybe a nexus 7 at the same time. Have apple for a shot for a year and a half and in bored of the OS already. Left android around gingerbread. Ever since jelly bean and project butter I been dying to get back. I'll prob try apple again around when iOS 7 comes out because I'm
Sure by then they will have revamped the OS as so many people are bitching about. Nov 13 couldn't come sooner.

marc11
Nov 1, 2012, 11:17 PM
Too bad the Nexus 4 and 10 aren't as desirable as the iPhone 5 and iPad mini/4th Gen. This is Apple we're talking about here... Having cheaper products than their competitors was, and probably never will be, their game.

According to who? I purchased a Nexus 7 after waiting for the iPad mini event and found the Nexus 7 to be more desirable...to that end, if I wanted a 10 inch tablet, the Nexus 10 is far more desirable to me than an iPad 4...I know because my wife has the iPad 3.

And define "cheap"...people have a problem with associating the word cheap with poor quality as opposed to inexpensive. And what is cheap? Clearly the stuff that matters, the processor, memory, screen and OS in the Nexus line are far from cheap, in fact they beat the best Apple is offering now.

Apple can still make the iPhone 5 and iPad and sell them for far less than they do and they would be no less "cheap" than they are now.

Imagine that? Imagine if the iPad 4 16 GB was sold for $399 or $349? Apple would still make a decent profit and sell tons of them. That is not what Apple does, Apple creates the feeling of quality and the feeling of exclusivity through price. It is a joke really.

The problem for Apple is that it has no where to go but down. When you are the leader the hardest thing to do is to remain the leader, while the runners up, the easiest thing to do is to work hard to try and catch the leader, see the leaders missteps and take advantage of them.

IMHO Apple has made several flaws in its business plan recently...despite the sales numbers short, term, long term these will hurt them:

1) OSX Lion/Mountain Lion, bugs, changes and the overall rapid deployment of OS upgrades.
2) iOS 6
3) Price/value of the iPad mini
4) Short life cycle of the iPad 3
5) Move away from user upgradable laptops and desktops
6) Pure lack of proffesional support
7) Device support feature deletion through OS upgrades

Google and MS see this, they hear the market and are bringing it to Apples front door. Apple must now react.

Sensamic
Nov 1, 2012, 11:32 PM
You know...


We should actually thank Apple for their overpriced products and how many Apple fans don't care to pay whatever they ask.

It is thanks to this that companies like Google are so desperate to gain attention and market share that they lower the price so much.

So, in the end, we customers win, specially those of us who like Android or WP8, because we get amazing products at an even more amazing price!

So thanks Apple. It is thanks to you that I will save a lot of bucks when buying the nexus 7 or 10 and maybe the 4.

It's just nuts that the nexus 7 32GB is only 249$!! Let the iPad mini be 329$ or 499$ if it wants. The more expensive it becomes the more cheap the nexus line will become :D:D:D

roxxette
Nov 1, 2012, 11:47 PM
Desperate ?

Purant
Nov 1, 2012, 11:57 PM
Too bad the Nexus 4 and 10 aren't as desirable as the iPhone 5 and iPad mini/4th Gen. This is Apple we're talking about here... Having cheaper products than their competitors was, and probably never will be, their game.

Hmm... Actually, my desire for an iPad died when I saw the Nexus 10. I can't find anything wrong with it and the price is very good.

I still want an iPhone 5 though.

onthecouchagain
Nov 1, 2012, 11:57 PM
A couple of comments:

First, bear in mind that, unless Unlimited Data plans make a big comeback, faster access is simply going to allow you to hit those 3GB/5GB/whatever limits faster and then end up paying for more 1GB/etc chunks. Having slower (where "slower" is still many MB per second) connections aren't necessarily a bad thing in a world where you can hit your monthly cap and then exceed it in mere minutes with the faster speeds. This is very different than in the world of landline broadband, where caps are huge or nonexistent.

Second, mobile devices age quickly. Even if there's going to be a sea change a few years down the road, I don't think you'll be shooting yourself in the foot spending $300 now on an unlocked phone. I think the speed of the processor (or other features) will seem to be way more of an issue down the road than the download speeds, since 3G is fast enough for almost anything phone-based already (web/email/navigation/etc). Sure, HD movie streaming might (or might not) suffer, but who streams HD movies on their phones using their data plans, except those grandfathered into unlimited ones? I have an iPhone 3G. Its access speeds are comparable to those of my iPhone 4S (moderately slower, but not much in most areas). It's not the network speeds that make it seem old now - it's the screen, the processor, the memory capacity, and so on. That's going to be true of any device you buy now, and LTE won't make it take much (if any) longer to become obsolete.

Excellent points regarding LTE that I didn't even consider.

HSPA+ is a great balance of speed, battery life, and managing data usage.

Vegastouch
Nov 2, 2012, 12:41 AM
Too bad the Nexus 4 and 10 aren't as desirable as the iPhone 5 and iPad mini/4th Gen. This is Apple we're talking about here... Having cheaper products than their competitors was, and probably never will be, their game.

They are selling 1 million Nexus 7's a month...and thats before the 32GB version. And who said the iPad mini is desirable? It doesnt even have a HD screen and it is more money. Price matters whether you think it does or not.

onthecouchagain
Nov 2, 2012, 12:54 AM
And who said the iPad mini is desirable?

I'm going to go with "Millions of Apple fans" for $200, Alex.

cynics
Nov 2, 2012, 01:25 AM
Nexus is really expensive over here in Scandinavia :/


If you open a PDF in Safari on iOS you have the option to send it to Dropbox. In Dropbox you can mark it as a "favourite" which downloads it locally. If you don't have Dropbox you can save it locally to any other PDF viewer, e.g. iBooks.

No it doesn't.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/02/haquqe5a.jpg

I need to open it in a view first. Then as soon as I try to open in Dropbox from adobe it crashes adobe.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/02/4u9anyry.jpg

I'm going to try to do a soft reboot to see if that fixes the crashing. I'll post back.

EDIT: still crashes. I looked up reviews of Adobe Reader and other people were reporting the same crashing problem. I did find it saving the PDF's I viewed locally though! In the recent section. However I refuse to pay for a PDF reader to avoid the crashing issue. Android does this perfectly for free.

Sugadaddy
Nov 2, 2012, 02:36 AM
I'm going to go with "Millions of Apple fans" for $200, Alex.

You know what you can buy with that $200?


A 16GB Nexus 7!

hot spare
Nov 2, 2012, 03:40 AM
I am going bit off-topic here. There was a discussion on Android customization. I would like to share a video on how you can make a Android phone look and feel the way you exactly want. This is a Note2 review video, but just check how he set-up the phone he wanted.

HBkY3vg14JM

sineplex
Nov 2, 2012, 07:02 AM
This spells trouble for Apple. You can get a Nexus 4 16gb + a Nexus 10 16gb - both products which have superior hardware specs than the iphone 5 and ipad - for the same price as an iphone 5 32gb.

Apple is pricing for profitability (i.e. leech the customers dry) while LG/Samsung/Google is pricing for market share.

Discuss.

Jon

for the price of a farrari, i can buy a few houses and an apartment.
apples and oranges. get what i'm say'n?

RetepNamenots
Nov 2, 2012, 07:21 AM
Shhhh.... Logic is not allowed on this forum, unless it is pro Apple. Really, the Nexus 4 is nice, but it is absolutely absurd that it doesn't include LTE support. Google could have sold far more had they included it.

There are plenty of markets where LTE still isn't relevant. I'm in the UK, and there is one network offering LTE, at absurd prices.

Why should I pay more for hardware that I'll never use?

Much like the Galaxy Nexus, they can also release an LTE version later for the markets that want it.

Jibbajabba
Nov 2, 2012, 07:30 AM
What surprises me more is that people keep open the same threads and people keep discussing the same topic over and over and ........ out

cynics
Nov 2, 2012, 07:39 AM
It is KIND OF funny. Although I was never a huge advocate of LTE due to battery drain but a lot of people bashed the iPhone so hard for not having it. Now they have a power efficient LTE system and the N4 doesn't have it and its no big deal.

Since a non LTE version will never be on Verizon I also don't think it's a huge deal (Verizon's 3G is horrible) I don't think it's a big deal either really. Just an observation of the irony.

I understand for people that don't live in the USA it's never been a big deal.

onthecouchagain
Nov 2, 2012, 07:39 AM
No it doesn't.

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/02/haquqe5a.jpg)

I need to open it in a view first. Then as soon as I try to open in Dropbox from adobe it crashes adobe.

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/02/4u9anyry.jpg)

I'm going to try to do a soft reboot to see if that fixes the crashing. I'll post back.

EDIT: still crashes. I looked up reviews of Adobe Reader and other people were reporting the same crashing problem. I did find it saving the PDF's I viewed locally though! In the recent section. However I refuse to pay for a PDF reader to avoid the crashing issue. Android does this perfectly for free.

Indeed. I frequently use DropBox and it's a pain to see it not supported via sharing through iOS.

I don't get why Apple doesn't just let people share with whatever apps they want.

People keep making this big fuss about how the App Store has apparently infinitely more and better apps, but what's the point when you can't even set them as a default browser or launcher or keyboard or share to it easily? iOS is such a gimped system, it's amazing people tolerate it. I suspect many iOS users who love their device are becoming fed up with the lack of customization, or have been silently frustrated. I can't imagine anyone who wants to do more than just liesure activities have not met some sort of obstacle due to iOS' limitations.

As I've said before, customization is far more than aesthetics. It's customizing function and controls too and it goes a long way in making a device usable.

It's so easy on the Android to do things. It should be just as easy on such a simple and superior OS, but it's not the case with iOS.

smwatson
Nov 2, 2012, 07:42 AM
There are plenty of markets where LTE still isn't relevant. I'm in the UK, and there is one network offering LTE, at absurd prices.

Why should I pay more for hardware that I'll never use?

Much like the Galaxy Nexus, they can also release an LTE version later for the markets that want it.

Agreed.

I have a 4S, and I'm not due an upgrade until February 2014, but with Google driving prices down AND superior hardware I'm very tempted to jump to Android when my upgrade comes around. Or, sell the 4S and buy a Nexus 4 - probably making a tidy profit!

Going to test the Android water with a Nexus 7 though...

mankar4
Nov 2, 2012, 08:57 AM
I would have bought the nexus 4 in an instant if it had lte. Now I have no idea what to do. I dont think any of the current android handsets are compelling enough to buy (lack of gs3 updates is a killer), though I would like a bigger screen than the iPhone 5 offers. I am going to wait till after all the holiday releases and reevaluate.

onthecouchagain
Nov 2, 2012, 12:14 PM
I would have bought the nexus 4 in an instant if it had lte. Now I have no idea what to do. I dont think any of the current android handsets are compelling enough to buy (lack of gs3 updates is a killer), though I would like a bigger screen than the iPhone 5 offers. I am going to wait till after all the holiday releases and reevaluate.

Yeah, I'd give it some time if you can wait. Google may release carrier specific versions of the Nexus 4. Those will have LTE.

Google must or the Nexus 4 will never truly take off beyond those few that appreciate unlocked devices.

sentinelsx
Nov 2, 2012, 12:44 PM
I'm going to go with "Millions of Apple fans" for $200, Alex.

I am not an Apple fan and even then the iPad is more desirable than a N7 even though i hate hate hate the way current iTunes works. I use a PC, have barely any desire to buy a mac (only if i ever did iOS dev but then i would probably loan one lol), so iTunes is huge PITA.

However, i have had my time albeit short with a N7 and the productivity apps i can use on an iPad have barely any 1:1 options for N7 as tablet apps go. I am not trolling, because i would LOVE a $200 tab that could run those technical apps and things like goodreader and paper, but apparently developers don't want to do that.

However, I am planning to swap my iP5 for a N4 because my smartphone is always used for communication and music/browsing on the go irrespective of how many apps are installed which makes the choice of a smartphone as easy as the cheapest one, and grab a surface instead of N7/10 or even an iPad because my desktop apps will run on the surface and with a full Office suite, a great keyboard, and much easier way to dev on visual studio is a win.

----------

Yeah, I'd give it some time if you can wait. Google may release carrier specific versions of the Nexus 4. Those will have LTE.

Google must or the Nexus 4 will never truly take off beyond those few that appreciate unlocked devices.

At $300, i could care less if it has LTE, the price is SWEET!

ZacT94
Nov 4, 2012, 05:56 AM
Shhhh.... Logic is not allowed on this forum, unless it is pro Apple. Really, the Nexus 4 is nice, but it is absolutely absurd that it doesn't include LTE support. Google could have sold far more had they included it.

The Nexus 4 would have been better with LTE. I'd have gladly paid an extra $50-100 for an LTE model.

RetepNamenots
Nov 4, 2012, 09:02 AM
Agreed.

I have a 4S, and I'm not due an upgrade until February 2014, but with Google driving prices down AND superior hardware I'm very tempted to jump to Android when my upgrade comes around. Or, sell the 4S and buy a Nexus 4 - probably making a tidy profit!

Going to test the Android water with a Nexus 7 though...

Yeah, I'm half-way through a 24 month contract with a Galaxy Nexus. I still thing it's a great phone, but with the Nexus 4 selling for peanuts I'll be able to sell my Galaxy Nexus and upgrade to a SIM-free phone for around 70, which I wouldn't have otherwise done.