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MacRumors
Nov 2, 2012, 03:20 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/02/apple-now-selling-lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter-in-the-us/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/11/microusb.jpgApple has begun selling its Lightning to Micro USB (http://www.tuaw.com/2012/11/02/lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter-now-available-in-the-us/) in the United States for the first time. The adapter (http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD820ZM/A/lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter), originally released to European customers because of EU requirements (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/04/apple-offering-micro-usb-adapters-to-european-customers/), allows users to charge their iPhones using commonplace micro USB adapters.

With the adapter, iPhone 5, iPad mini and 4th-generation iPad users will be able to charge their devices with some of their existing cables.

Support for micro USB charging via an adapter, rather than plugging directly into the phone, is allowed by the EU policy. Apple isn't required to include an actual micro-USB port directly on the iPhone.

Article Link: Apple Now Selling Lightning to Micro USB Adapter in the US (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/02/apple-now-selling-lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter-in-the-us/)



Sixtafoua
Nov 2, 2012, 03:22 PM
waht.

lunaoso
Nov 2, 2012, 03:23 PM
Cool. Seems like a good accessory for android switchers.

shigeya
Nov 2, 2012, 03:24 PM
Ordered 12hrs ago.

oopl
Nov 2, 2012, 03:24 PM
That is awesome news!

designgeek
Nov 2, 2012, 03:29 PM
Now THIS is something I can use. Too bad it'll probably cost between $20-30. Shouldn't be more than $5.

joe-h2o
Nov 2, 2012, 03:33 PM
Now THIS is something I can use. Too bad it'll probably cost between $20-30. Shouldn't be more than $5.

You guessed incorrectly. It is $19.

spb3
Nov 2, 2012, 03:36 PM
this is so backwards.

magbarn
Nov 2, 2012, 03:38 PM
Hmmm... wow the $19 USB-Lightning adapter just became an excellent deal. This $0.50 adapter should be sold for $5-$10.

2 Replies
Nov 2, 2012, 03:38 PM
:rolleyes:
ROFLMAO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTTSsB92L_s#t=36s) X'-D

kemo
Nov 2, 2012, 03:38 PM
meh, and it costs Apple like 5 bucks - to distribute 100 of these to any Apple store in the world :)

baryon
Nov 2, 2012, 03:44 PM
It's far more commonplace than actually using the cable that came with the device, that happens to be a proper USB cable that plugs into every computer ever made, unlike micro USB which only plugs into a USB-to-micro USB cable… silly EU law…

designgeek
Nov 2, 2012, 03:45 PM
You guessed incorrectly. It is $19.

HA! I figured I should round down. For some reason rounding down to he x9's just pisses me off. When it's that overpriced making it sound cheaper is just a little too overt, they may as well describe their margins to me in detail. I would feel just as good. ;)

justinfreid
Nov 2, 2012, 03:50 PM
I thought this might only function for power only but it includes data, too.
Nice.

"Use this adapter to connect an iPhone, iPad, or iPod with Lightning connector to a micro USB cable to sync and charge, or to a compatible micro USB charger to charge your device." via Apple.com | http://j.mp/TqHQQS

nagromme
Nov 2, 2012, 04:00 PM
Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.

• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

bwhli
Nov 2, 2012, 04:01 PM
Why use this when there are Lightning to USB cables?

Neuro
Nov 2, 2012, 04:01 PM
Hilarious and bizarre in equal measure, an adapter that costs more than the cable. Apple are basically re-selling you the use of your existing accessories, for no good reason whatsoever. And yet everyone thinks it's great! Yay!

krravi
Nov 2, 2012, 04:14 PM
Only Apple can make 1000 types of adaptors and make a killing doing it.

JonathanK81
Nov 2, 2012, 04:14 PM
I'm happy with what was included. I know I'm not the norm, but I don't have any devices right now that use a micro-usb cable.

kuebby
Nov 2, 2012, 04:16 PM
Remember folks:

[summed up the insanity]

I agree, but Apple has gotten kind of stingy with the accessories. Since this is the first generation of devices with Lightning connectors there should at least be a 30-pin adapter in the box, I think that's fair.

jamestada
Nov 2, 2012, 04:18 PM
I thought this might only function for power only but it includes data, too.
Nice.

"Use this adapter to connect an iPhone, iPad, or iPod with Lightning connector to a micro USB cable to sync and charge, or to a compatible micro USB charger to charge your device." via Apple.com | http://j.mp/TqHQQS

Which means there is absolutely no reason for a proprietary cable. It's not faster, its not smaller than existing tech. All it does is allow it to be plugged in either way. I'd rather see Apple finally adopt an existing standard that works perfectly so I can spend $19 on other stuff like the 38th version of Angry Birds.

*walks up to a kid in a blue shirt with $19 for check out*

lordofthereef
Nov 2, 2012, 04:26 PM
Which means there is absolutely no reason for a proprietary cable. It's not faster, its not smaller than existing tech. All it does is allow it to be plugged in either way.

You summed it up in a nutshell. What it DOES allow for is for apple to have greater control over accessories (a benefit for Apple, not te user).

To all those stating that it was time for change, I won't argue that the old connector was getting long on the tooth. I will still question why they didn't adopt current tech which, with the exception of a reversible plug, can do everything that lightning can. But wait. I can answer my own question. Developing a new plug and collecting 100% of sales is likely more profitable, in the long run, than licensing out micro USB. If you think this was done with the consumer being first, second, or third in mind, you are wrong.

Neuro
Nov 2, 2012, 04:28 PM
Remember folks:

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.



Gosh, the HOURS I have spent foolishly trying to insert my USB cable the wrong way around, I mean, it's like such a drain on my life force!

I have literally dreamt of the day I could finally throw my USB away, 'Lightning' is the way, and yes I'll gladly pay, much to my bank's dismay.... oh, you're coming to take me away?!

Astro7x
Nov 2, 2012, 04:38 PM
I agree, but Apple has gotten kind of stingy with the accessories. Since this is the first generation of devices with Lightning connectors there should at least be a 30-pin adapter in the box, I think that's fair.

And clutter up the packaging of your new iPhone for when you unbox it? That's not the Apple I know...

dubhe
Nov 2, 2012, 04:42 PM
I've had this in the uk for a few weeks, and had the 30 pin equivalent before. It's handy in the car plugged into an old BlackBerry charger which I leave in there, no need to bring my only USB to Lightning cable out of the house every morning.

emx620
Nov 2, 2012, 04:43 PM
If I understood correctly, the micro-usb spec only allows for a maximum of 9W, which means our retina display iPads would not be able to charge at maximum rate? Can anyone comment on this or confirm if it is true?

nsayer
Nov 2, 2012, 04:45 PM
Lightning is superior to µUSB. Lightning is superior to the 30 pin dock connector.

Is the 30 pin connector reversible? No.

Can you get video over µUSB? No.
Can you get analog audio over µUSB? No.
Is µUSB reversible? No.

Now. You can argue whether those line items are significant or not, but they are factual.

In practice, I find the reversibility of the lightning connector to be a huge win. It's relatively difficult to see which side of either the dock connector or the µUSB connector is which. It is, of course, a non-issue for Lightning.

A friend of mine is legally blind. He has found the Lightning connector to be a relative godsend.

None of this negates the points that have been made about Apple having such tight control over the accessories market, but those who argue that there are not real, credible advantages to Apple's connector are ignoring reality.

tasset
Nov 2, 2012, 04:51 PM
I ordered a couple, as I wanted these to couple with retractable microusb cables for the vehicles. $19 isn't great, but I wanted enough to almost try the Chinese fakes or pay the extortionists on eBay for the real ones. Glad Apple came around to selling in the US.

alexph
Nov 2, 2012, 04:54 PM
I agree, but Apple has gotten kind of stingy with the accessories. Since this is the first generation of devices with Lightning connectors there should at least be a 30-pin adapter in the box, I think that's fair.

When I, and many others, placed their orders for the iP5, the Apple web site stated that a connector WAS included in the box. This was later deemed to have been a mistake and Apple relied on their web site terms and conditions to say that they were not responsible for errors.

With too much time on my hands, I challenged this, and initially got the usual brush off. However when I wrote them a letter stating that I was about to take them through the UK Small Claims Court, I received a telephone call and a nice Ł40 credit to my account - 'to cover my unsatisfactory Apple experience'

Anyone else who ordered the iP5 in the first few hours before Apple changed their site should demand a connector or the value back as a refund.

I agree that the connector should have been included, clearly Apple were intending to (they have the relevant web paged created and uploaded). Given that the connectors are still not shipping (or are in very small numbers), one wonders if that is the reason for the change of heart.

Nothwithstanding that, it does seem like a kick in the teeth for loyal Apple customers who have been forced to change adaptors and contribute to Apples every growing ocean of cash

kas23
Nov 2, 2012, 04:59 PM
It is foolish to buy one if these. In the long-run, it is more cost effective to just buy a lightening cable.

Namjins
Nov 2, 2012, 05:24 PM
Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.

• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

Do you honestly assume that everyone shares your points of view?

----------

On the upside, you could pick your USB cable length and get it at a decent price.

davidg4781
Nov 2, 2012, 05:44 PM
This might come in handy for me. I use the Apple Bumper on my 4S and had a very hard time finding a car adaptor that I could use with the small opening. I would also like to buy a longer USB cable for charging at home and in the car but they are hard to find with the small dock connector.

With this, I can but whatever microusb cable I want and still have no problems plugging it into my iPhone 5S (when I'm able to upgrade).

mungo2k
Nov 2, 2012, 05:44 PM
Weren't these supposed to be included in the box in the EU? I didn't get one...

Ben Bernanke
Nov 2, 2012, 05:50 PM
So remind me again why Apple doesn't just use the standard micro usb in the first place? Is it so they can rip off their loyal customers even more by selling them overpriced adapters?

Archer1440
Nov 2, 2012, 05:58 PM
Do you honestly assume that everyone shares your points of view?

----------
I bet he only assumes smart people do. The rest of you can persist with lame arguments about how evil all this is.

Analog Kid
Nov 2, 2012, 06:09 PM
I think Lightning is everything it should be. Maybe a little more expensive than it needs to be, but who's surprised? My only beef is that they didn't better coordinate release with accessory makers.

I will still question why they didn't adopt current tech which, with the exception of a reversible plug, can do everything that lightning can.
Can you name one? I can't. (Hint: USB cannot do everything Lightning can.)
Gosh, the HOURS I have spent foolishly trying to insert my USB cable the wrong way around, I mean, it's like such a drain on my life force!
Actually, USB and 30-pin dock connectors always wanting to align upside down is one of the more petty annoyances in my life. Fixing that is worth $20 to me when it comes down to it. Everything else Lightning does is just gravy.

Hopefully reversibility will become a newly expected feature of every new interconnect design.
Do you honestly assume that everyone shares your points of view?
**Sigh**

ftaok
Nov 2, 2012, 06:24 PM
If they had lightning to mini USB adapters, then I'd be sold. My old cell phone chargers are all mini USB, not micro.

macosxuser01
Nov 2, 2012, 06:37 PM
This is just getting way out of hand with Apple's prices and there adapters. Soon we're gonna have an adapter for lighting to 3inch floppy drive

Medic311
Nov 2, 2012, 06:42 PM
where is the lightening to serial port adapter? how am i supposed to hook up my dot matrix printer to my iPad ?!?!?

MeFromHere
Nov 2, 2012, 06:51 PM
Hmmm... wow the $19 USB-Lightning adapter just became an excellent deal. This $0.50 adapter should be sold for $5-$10.

Since you feel so strongly about it, I assume YOU will soon be selling a (licensed, legal) version of this adapter for $5-$10. Thank you for your outstanding service to the Apple community.

----------

Which means there is absolutely no reason for a proprietary cable. It's not faster, its not smaller than existing tech. All it does is allow it to be plugged in either way. I'd rather see Apple finally adopt an existing standard that works perfectly so I can spend $19 on other stuff like the 38th version of Angry Birds.

*walks up to a kid in a blue shirt with $19 for check out*

Except a COMPATIBLE micro USB charger can only supply 9 watts. Anything that supplies more is violating the standard. So this will be a slow way to charge a full-size iPad.

This adapter isn't faster than USB 2.0 (because it is USB). Other lightning adapters do move data faster than USB 2.0 can.

The lightning port does way more than USB could do. If you add an adapter that dumbs it down to micro USB, it's silly to be offended that its dumb.

alirz
Nov 2, 2012, 06:54 PM
Could this be used for sync?

dontwalkhand
Nov 2, 2012, 07:04 PM
Seriously, what is the purpose of this? For the price of this, I could buy another Lightning cable instead.

Micro-USB is nowhere near as good as Lightning though, I have yet to see USB offer car integration as well as Apple's proprietary connectors. I have also yet to see USB offer analog audio out, or even be as sturdy. I have had old BlackBerries where the USB connector feels so lose, yet all my Apple 30-Pin devices have lasted longer than ever, and feels just as sturdy from day one. I expect the same with my iPhone 5 and Lightning.

ReValveiT
Nov 2, 2012, 07:14 PM
Can you get analog audio over µUSB? No.


Can you get analog audio over lightning? No.

:)

dontwalkhand
Nov 2, 2012, 07:15 PM
Can you get analog audio over lightning? No.

:)
Yes you can, Lightning -> 30 Pin Adapter.

Also many Lightning -> DAC converters that will come out, just like they did for iPhone 4

nsayer
Nov 2, 2012, 07:33 PM
Seriously, what is the purpose of this? For the price of this, I could buy another Lightning cable instead.


I suspect that you say that because you cannot envision a µUSB cable that doesn't have a normal USB plug on the other end. If there exist µUSB->something else cables, then a µUSB to lightning adapter would allow them to continue to be used.

prowlmedia
Nov 2, 2012, 07:40 PM
Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.

• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

Um everything you have said is wrong. Or is that the point?

USB tops out at 5watts the micro pins can't really handle anymore without breaking the spec

Micro usb android tablets like the nexus 7 break that spec. Lightning can go way higher allowing faster charging

The pins do Autoswap

30 pin has run out of pins.. Was reusing pins from older devices.

USB can't do video. Can't do asynchronous data at speed. Can't multi stream.

MUSB Is a very weak connector.




----------

It is foolish to buy one if these. In the long-run, it is more cost effective to just buy a lightening cable.

I have mine on a little usb to micro usb keyring can charge wherever I am.

Rodimus Prime
Nov 2, 2012, 07:47 PM
and typical Apple par as normal goes against the spirit of the law any how. Still crap that Apple does not have a micro USB port directly on the phone for charging.

buddybd
Nov 2, 2012, 07:58 PM
I don't really care about micro USB but Apple should've been smarter about deploying Lightning. It's fine to push a standard but they should do it right.

They could just as easily priced the cables at $5 and avoided all the backlash. $19 for a whole new standard, yet it is not even USB 3.0.

sekazi
Nov 2, 2012, 08:16 PM
USB and USB mini are plug it in a forget it plugs. I swear USB plugs live in another dimension because you can try to plug it in and fail. Flip it around and fail again and finally flip it again and it goes in or you have to flip 1 more time before it goes in.

I have never had that issue with the 30pin or lightning connectors.

seamer
Nov 2, 2012, 08:18 PM
I think it's funny that Apple is being made out to be a villain for giving options with existing cables while Monster is ignored for its sales tactics.

cRuNcHiE
Nov 2, 2012, 08:27 PM
Micro usb CAN do video, they call it MHL.
The galaxy s2 and other phones have micro usb to hdmi.

Seeing as It does that it should also be able to output analogue audio with the right adapter as lightning needs a DAC to produce the analogue audio
Just sayin'

nfl46
Nov 2, 2012, 08:28 PM
This is how Apple has billions of dollars. Lol.

magbarn
Nov 2, 2012, 08:30 PM
I think it's funny that Apple is being made out to be a villain for giving options with existing cables while Monster is ignored for its sales tactics.

Well we're locked in the apple 'company store' syndrome, whilst there's many other equivalent correctly priced alternatives to monster cables.

roland.g
Nov 2, 2012, 08:37 PM
Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.

• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

And if you believe all this you, you probably think the weather has been perfect in New York the past week.

Aluminum213
Nov 2, 2012, 08:50 PM
These prices are laughable, I have called apple customer service twice in the last few weeks and both times they offered to send me a lightning to USB cable without me asking. Probably costs them a $1 to make and they sell them for $20 and people rush to buy them

zhenya
Nov 2, 2012, 08:58 PM
Which means there is absolutely no reason for a proprietary cable. It's not faster, its not smaller than existing tech. All it does is allow it to be plugged in either way. I'd rather see Apple finally adopt an existing standard that works perfectly so I can spend $19 on other stuff like the 38th version of Angry Birds.

*walks up to a kid in a blue shirt with $19 for check out*

You summed it up in a nutshell. What it DOES allow for is for apple to have greater control over accessories (a benefit for Apple, not te user).

To all those stating that it was time for change, I won't argue that the old connector was getting long on the tooth. I will still question why they didn't adopt current tech which, with the exception of a reversible plug, can do everything that lightning can. But wait. I can answer my own question. Developing a new plug and collecting 100% of sales is likely more profitable, in the long run, than licensing out micro USB. If you think this was done with the consumer being first, second, or third in mind, you are wrong.

So remind me again why Apple doesn't just use the standard micro usb in the first place? Is it so they can rip off their loyal customers even more by selling them overpriced adapters?

Folks, the PRIMARY advantage that Apple's cables, whether new or old, provide is driverless communication and control with host devices. This means that a $50 clock radio can not only charge, but be integrated with the iOS device for audio and control. Micro-USB requires both drivers on the host device AND a chip to handle them. This is expensive and not reliable. This alone is why Apple has a proprietary connection and why there is a huge aftermarket for iOS devices and almost none for Android.

seamer
Nov 2, 2012, 09:01 PM
Well we're locked in the apple 'company store' syndrome, whilst there's many other equivalent correctly priced alternatives to monster cables.

Regardless of "locked" into the eco system, Apple could be doing a lot worse than it is re: micro USB. Focussing on pricing alone is not enough to base an argument.

magbarn
Nov 2, 2012, 09:18 PM
Since you feel so strongly about it, I assume YOU will soon be selling a (licensed, legal) version of this adapter for $5-$10. Thank you for your outstanding service to the Apple community.

----------



Sarcasm aside, what I meant was what's the point of this adapter when it's being sold for the same price as the much more useful geniune Apple USB to lightning adapter? Unless you have some micro USB only type of charger which isn't going to provide enough current anyway.

gatearray
Nov 2, 2012, 09:41 PM
So remind me again why Apple doesn't just use the standard micro usb in the first place? Is it so they can rip off their loyal customers even more by selling them overpriced adapters?

Nope, my guess is that they don't use standard micro USB connectors because they break easily and can't do the dynamic switching for all the required functions, Ben.

In my opinion, micro USB is garbage and I'm glad Apple chose to not utilize it as the connector type on my iPhone.

dontwalkhand
Nov 2, 2012, 09:47 PM
USB and USB mini are plug it in a forget it plugs. I swear USB plugs live in another dimension because you can try to plug it in and fail. Flip it around and fail again and finally flip it again and it goes in or you have to flip 1 more time before it goes in.

I have never had that issue with the 30pin or lightning connectors.

If you're talking about the USB Port end of it, hell yes, Even the ports on my MacBook, seems to have a mind on their own! Always have to try to look to see what direction the cord should go in.

Huracan
Nov 2, 2012, 10:08 PM
Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.

• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

I am not sure all other companies sell at cost. Before I switched to the iPhone I was on a number of Motorola phones, Razr and others. They used usb chargers. However, if I tried to plug the phone to a regular usb cable plugged to a computer, etc. the Motorola phone would refuse to charge. It would only charge with the official Motorola charger, and those were pretty expensive and bulky sometimes.

I had my misgivings about the new connector, but I've been using it with the iPhone 5 and I ended up liking it. We can't expect technology to not evolve. Otherwise we would be hooking up phones to computers through those huge parallel ports of about over a decade ago :)

Would I like Apple to charge less for cables and adapters? YES. However, Apple is not the only one charging big money for cables, look at all those HDMI cables out there. Some of them are quite pricey.

manu chao
Nov 2, 2012, 10:54 PM
Why use this when there are Lightning to USB cables?
I guess if you commute or travel to places where you have already a micro-USB cable (either together with a charger or to be connected to a computer), carrying this small adaptor is much less bulky than a complete cable. It is almost small enough to put it into your wallet to have as an emergency charging solution if you are at least around places where you have a chance of finding a micro-USB cable.

----------

Which means there is absolutely no reason for a proprietary cable. It's not faster, its not smaller than existing tech. All it does is allow it to be plugged in either way.

And it is less fiddly to be plugged in.

----------

If they had lightning to mini USB adapters, then I'd be sold. My old cell phone chargers are all mini USB, not micro.
Maybe you can add a mini USB to micro USB connector? ;)

----------

Yes you can, Lightning -> 30 Pin Adapter.

Also many Lightning -> DAC converters that will come out, just like they did for iPhone 4
Well, if the Lightning -> 30 Pin Adaptor has a D/A converter built-in, you could equally create a similar-sized USB adaptor that has a D/A converter built-in as well. In fact, apart from video you probably could get everything currently offered from the lightning port of an iOS device also from a USB port on the device.

(Apart from the symmetry and non-fiddly-ness of Lightning.)

elpamyelhsa
Nov 2, 2012, 11:00 PM
Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.

• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

Sorry, not correct on so many points.

USB does not support outputs like: HDMI, VGA, Analoge Audio, Digital Audio Streaming.
Or Inputs like SD card reader or USB in interface as it is not reversible.

If Apple updated to miniUSB it would be a sad day for iFamily.

dontwalkhand
Nov 2, 2012, 11:08 PM
Well, if the Lightning -> 30 Pin Adaptor has a D/A converter built-in, you could equally create a similar-sized USB adaptor that has a D/A converter built-in as well. In fact, apart from video you probably could get everything currently offered from the lightning port of an iOS device also from a USB port on the device.

(Apart from the symmetry and non-fiddly-ness of Lightning.)

I don't think USB has the technical ability to reassign pins on an as-needed basis. That is the reason why you can't make the same type of accessories like you can see out of Lightning.

Also, 30-Pin, had pinouts that were specific to functions such as steering wheel controls etc....Lightning has them too, they are just dynamically assigned. I don't think USB has this ability.

Yebubbleman
Nov 2, 2012, 11:25 PM
Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/02/apple-now-selling-lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter-in-the-us/)


Image (http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/11/microusb.jpg)Apple has begun selling its Lightning to Micro USB (http://www.tuaw.com/2012/11/02/lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter-now-available-in-the-us/) in the United States for the first time. The adapter (http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD820ZM/A/lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter), originally released to European customers because of EU requirements (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/04/apple-offering-micro-usb-adapters-to-european-customers/), allows users to charge their iPhones using commonplace micro USB adapters.

With the adapter, iPhone 5, iPad mini and 4th-generation iPad users will be able to charge their devices with some of their existing cables.

Support for micro USB charging via an adapter, rather than plugging directly into the phone, is allowed by the EU policy. Apple isn't required to include an actual micro-USB port directly on the iPhone.

Article Link: Apple Now Selling Lightning to Micro USB Adapter in the US (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/02/apple-now-selling-lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter-in-the-us/)

Sweet, works with the 5th gen iPod touch. May very well pick one of these up so my touch can use my Galaxy Nexus' charging cable.

dilbert99
Nov 2, 2012, 11:46 PM
Remember folks:

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.


Have you seen how much monster charges for its HDMI cables?

engg2000
Nov 3, 2012, 12:11 AM
Have you seen how much monster charges for its HDMI cables?

Do you honestly not understand the points made are drenched in sarcasm?
The last line says it all.

----------

Sorry, not correct on so many points.

USB does not support outputs like: HDMI, VGA, Analoge Audio, Digital Audio Streaming.
Or Inputs like SD card reader or USB in interface as it is not reversible.

If Apple updated to miniUSB it would be a sad day for iFamily.

Buddy, the post you're referring to is sarcastic...
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcastic

komodrone
Nov 3, 2012, 12:12 AM
Remember folks:

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.



https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3703182/Screen%20Shot%202012-11-02%20at%2010.11.45%20PM.png

reallynotnick
Nov 3, 2012, 12:51 AM
Can you get video over µUSB? No.
Can you get analog audio over µUSB? No.
Is µUSB reversible? No.


You can't do analog audio over the lightning connector, it is an "all digital" connector. The lightning to 30pin adapter requires a DAC built into the adapter in order to output analog audio.

NeoMayhem
Nov 3, 2012, 01:01 AM
• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.


Lol, Monster Cable? (http://www.monstercable.com/)

KingMD
Nov 3, 2012, 03:29 AM
not to rain on anyones parade, but i do think its quite safe to say some of you might have missed the sarcasm in nagromme's post...

RobertoCravallo
Nov 3, 2012, 04:11 AM
This and other such behavior is to switch to a different brand the next time I am up for a new phone.

Don't get me wrong, I love my MACs but the APPLE politics with the phone are just getting me pi...d off. I will not play along anymore and pay redicilous prices for cheap chinese adaptors.

I wonder how many people are happy about the new plug? How many have to throw out accessories they paid big bucks for before APPLE went and changed the plug.

I will stick to my APPLE PCs, but maybe it is just time to try a SAMSUNG phone.

Please don't call me a troll, I had one of the first APPLE II PCs way back when. I am sure there will be people sitting in front of APPLE stores at two in the morning to buy these adaptors......

macs4nw
Nov 3, 2012, 04:30 AM
I'm happy with what was included. I know I'm not the norm, but I don't have any devices right now that use a micro-usb cable.

Same here.

Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.

• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

I too noticed, that some of the above posters replying to you, didn't seem to get the sarcasm of your post. Reasonably minded people will have to concede that all the points you've made, are valid. But there will always be complainers, unfortunately. Let's also not forget that we buy APPLE products, because we like them, not because someone has a gun to our head. :eek:

......All it does is allow it to be plugged in either way.......

Even IF that was it's only capability, which it clearly is not, that by itself, is a pretty nice feature for lots of people.

BvizioN
Nov 3, 2012, 06:41 AM
This is just getting way out of hand with Apple's prices and there adapters. Soon we're gonna have an adapter for lighting to 3inch floppy drive

And, you are going to be forced to buy one... by who?

Gee! What is it with you ppl? Who said that you need or have to buy everything Apple makes? You don't like the prices, you don't buy one. You don't need it, you don't buy it. End of story.

ReValveiT
Nov 3, 2012, 06:44 AM
Yes you can, Lightning -> 30 Pin Adapter.

Also many Lightning -> DAC converters that will come out, just like they did for iPhone 4

Well duh, with the use of a DAC - NOT natively.

I can get analogue audio from a USB port... With a USB DAC!

Come on...

MeFromHere
Nov 3, 2012, 07:13 AM
Sarcasm aside, what I meant was what's the point of this adapter when it's being sold for the same price as the much more useful geniune Apple USB to lightning adapter? Unless you have some micro USB only type of charger which isn't going to provide enough current anyway.

As for "what's the point?", I think you have a valid point. :)

This adapter seems much less useful than a normal USB to lightning adapter/cable. They probably don't expect to sell a lot of these, but they are available for people who need them. I do occasionally see "dedicated" microUSB chargers that don't have a regular USB connection at the other end, for example. This tiny adapter lets a new iPhone/iPad/iPod use one of those chargers. (Probably the charging time is pretty long for a full-size iPad.)

The cost to make this microUSB to lightning adapter is probably in the same ballpark as the normal USB to lightning cable, so they are priced alike. I think Apple set their prices high enough to make a profit (obviously), but also high enough that licensees have room to make a profit AND pay the royalty to Apple. That is, I don't think Apple wants to price so low that they undercut their own licensees.

I have no idea how much the royalty for lightning products is. Only Apple and MFi members under NDA have that info. I suspect the primary motive for MFi fees and royalties is to try to keep the sleazy riff-raff from flooding the market with look-alike junk. Junky accessories make for unhappy Apple customers. Yes, Apple gets some income from MFi, but I think they have FAR more effective ways to make money.

rtdunham
Nov 3, 2012, 08:25 AM
It seems like what would be more useful would be a set of three adapters with female lightning ports and three different male outputs: 30-pin, micro USB, and mini USB. With that kit and a single iPad charger and USB-to-lightning cable, you could charge iPods and iPhones of every generation, your digital cameras, kindles, phone backup batteries, BT earpieces and a world of other devices. The adapters could fit neatly into one of those little holders meant for 3 or 4 SD or CF cards, until custom made sleeves were marketed. The Velcro sleeve could fold around the coiled cable.
If your objectives are maximum flexibility and minimum kit to drag along on trips, this would seem to be.a perfect compact solution. But it requires different adapters than the ones being sold now (which only allow other products' chargers to marry with a lightning device. Seems backwards)

winston1236
Nov 3, 2012, 09:39 AM
should have been a micro usb to begin with

magbarn
Nov 3, 2012, 09:43 AM
should have been a micro usb to begin with

No way. Almost every prior phone I've had with micro USB, after about a year old get worn out. I'd have to give the connector a jiggle to get it to connect. Otoh, despite being more fragile than lightning, every iPhone I've had with the 30 pin connector still worked great after 2 years of use. Honestly, a MagSafe type of connector would've been best with a stronger magnet.

alexander25
Nov 3, 2012, 11:19 AM
No way. Almost every prior phone I've had with micro USB, after about a year old get worn out. I'd have to give the connector a jiggle to get it to connect. Otoh, despite being more fragile than lightning, every iPhone I've had with the 30 pin connector still worked great after 2 years of use. Honestly, a MagSafe type of connector would've been best with a stronger magnet.

how would a magsafe adapter even work for a product so light?

MacMan1620
Nov 3, 2012, 12:04 PM
Apple could cure Cancer and someone in these forums would complain about it. If you don't like apple then simply don't buy their products. I certainly don't waste my time posting crap on the Microsoft blog sites.

lordofthereef
Nov 3, 2012, 12:52 PM
Can you name one? I can't. (Hint: USB cannot do everything Lightning can.)



Actually, it can, just maybe in different ways than what apple implemented. It can do video. It can do music. It can sync data. Again, all it can't do is be plugged in any way because it can't assign different tasks to different pins on the fly. Show me where that is actually necessary and I will eat my words. Otherwise, it is a wonderfully cool party trick that the average end user could care less about.

wgnoyes
Nov 3, 2012, 12:58 PM
Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.
...
How does it cost Apple (or ANYONE) nothing to develop a chip?!

adildacoolset
Nov 3, 2012, 01:08 PM
Micro usb CAN do video, they call it MHL.
The galaxy s2 and other phones have micro usb to hdmi.

Seeing as It does that it should also be able to output analogue audio with the right adapter as lightning needs a DAC to produce the analogue audio
Just sayin'

So, it also needs an adapter. And, since this is all digital, it can do more than just video and data

----------

How does it cost Apple (or ANYONE) nothing to develop a chip?!

He was speaking sarcastically.

----------

how would a magsafe adapter even work for a product so light?

Its apple, they have to be able to do everything, no matter how possible it is. Thats the notion. I mean, we've seen it when people complain when a product doesn't cater for their needs, and somehow its all Apple's fault.

mabhatter
Nov 3, 2012, 01:51 PM
It's far more commonplace than actually using the cable that came with the device, that happens to be a proper USB cable that plugs into every computer ever made, unlike micro USB which only plugs into a USB-to-micro USB cable… silly EU law…

The EU rule is about CHARGERS not cords. Apple's chargers all use normal USB connectors to use whatever connector you need. The "cheaters" in my opinion are the ones with the cord "glued" to the power supply so you can't use whatever your device needs.

Frankly, if you can't keep track of 3 foot of connector cord, how do you live with a $500 phone every day???

Macky-Mac
Nov 3, 2012, 01:54 PM
the world is going to end ohh snappp, what are we going to do with out our cell phones

justinfreid
Nov 3, 2012, 02:26 PM
You summed it up in a nutshell. What it DOES allow for is for apple to have greater control over accessories (a benefit for Apple, not te user).

To all those stating that it was time for change, I won't argue that the old connector was getting long on the tooth. I will still question why they didn't adopt current tech which, with the exception of a reversible plug, can do everything that lightning can. But wait. I can answer my own question. Developing a new plug and collecting 100% of sales is likely more profitable, in the long run, than licensing out micro USB. If you think this was done with the consumer being first, second, or third in mind, you are wrong.

I agree with your conclusion, but the fact that this adapter allows syncing and charging doesn't mean that mini USB, even accounting for its not being reversible, provides all of the functionality that Lightning does. It doesn't mean that it doesn't, but this adapter doesn't prove it.
I suspect there'll be some features that Lightning will enable down the road whether it be through it's mechanics or its electronics.

bandalay
Nov 3, 2012, 02:32 PM
[QUOTE=nagromme;16210775]Remember folks:

I sure don't love those tiny metal USB connectors - it always feels like I'm forcing them - not a positive fit to them. Like the connectors for a 90s clamshell phone that would get a grain of sand in it and fail.

Apple's design of power adapters have redefined the marketplace. No dull, black transformers anymore…thank Ive.

:apple:

AnonMac50
Nov 3, 2012, 03:22 PM
I think this is a great idea. If Apple includes it in the box it would be even better, but, oh well. You have no idea how many people have I've seen ask for an iPhone charger. :apple:

iAll
Nov 3, 2012, 04:12 PM
USB and USB mini are plug it in a forget it plugs. I swear I live in another dimension because you can try to plug it in and fail. Flip it around and fail again and finally flip it again and it goes in or you have to flip 1 more time before it goes in.


Sounds like a personal problem. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. :rolleyes:

A new oem. lightening cable at BestBuy: $20, I bought one yesterday. It's the other end that is important: USB2/charger http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Pocket-Sized-USB-Car-and-Wall-Charger-Adapter-For-T-Mobile-myTouch-2011-/00/s/MTAwMFgxMDAw/$(KGrHqEOKn!E6tY!ms-cBOuu3PQVyQ~~60_12.JPG

Archer1440
Nov 3, 2012, 04:33 PM
and typical Apple par as normal goes against the spirit of the law any how. Still crap that Apple does not have a micro USB port directly on the phone for charging.

The "spirit" of the silly European law is clearly not in the interest of innovation or improvement- something you would realize if you have ever invented anything.

Stupid laws are stupid.

lordofthereef
Nov 3, 2012, 04:40 PM
I agree with your conclusion, but the fact that this adapter allows syncing and charging doesn't mean that mini USB, even accounting for its not being reversible, provides all of the functionality that Lightning does. It doesn't mean that it doesn't, but this adapter doesn't prove it.
I suspect there'll be some features that Lightning will enable down the road whether it be through it's mechanics or its electronics.

That's the thing though. USB has evolved so much, since the inception of even micro USB. Assuming Apple gives us some killer feature with lightning, I am sure it will be emulated with micro USB as well. Let's also not forget that lightning is based off of USB 2.0 (sadly not 3.0).

In a time when the push is so much to go without cables, I am honestly shocked that we aren't seeing a bigger push on evolutions of wifi, bluetooth, etc. from Apple.

But you are right. Apple might have something magical up their sleeves. Forgive me if I am skeptical, because history has showed, the 30 pin connector isn't something that ever became magical, at all. Yet it still exists. And it still remained proprietary to Apple.

----------

The "spirit" of the silly European law is clearly not in the interest of innovation or improvement- something you would realize if you have ever invented anything.

Stupid laws are stupid.

You are absolutely right. What it does do, is allow for protection for the end user.

I understand your frustration, but consider for a moment what life would be like without some sort of standards. What if there was no USB standard. No wifi. No bluetooth. Let's go even broader. What about 3G tech? LTE tech? Everyone just duplicated functionality of all of those things with their own proprietary tech. How would our lives be then? Pretty miserable, I'd say.

In general, companies recognize and adopt standards, so we don't need this sort of regulation. The sad thing is Apple doesn't seem to license this sort of thing out. They could very well have made something wonderful. But if we don't have the option to make it the standard, it just ends up being something that gets regulated.

To be clear, Apple is not the only one that does this. Sony is pretty terrible at it, as is/was samsung. The large difference here is that Apple has become largely successful selling devices with these ports, so they are placed under the microscope more frequently.

macs4nw
Nov 3, 2012, 05:00 PM
Apple could cure Cancer and someone in these forums would complain about it. If you don't like apple then simply don't buy their products. I certainly don't waste my time posting crap on the Microsoft blog sites.

So true!

lordofthereef
Nov 3, 2012, 05:31 PM
Apple could cure Cancer and someone in these forums would complain about it. If you don't like apple then simply don't buy their products. I certainly don't waste my time posting crap on the Microsoft blog sites.

Wait. So not being happy with some of the choices Apple makes translates into not liking Apple and therefor those people should be silent?

Iron clad logic, sir. Iron clad.

Rodimus Prime
Nov 3, 2012, 05:45 PM
To be clear, Apple is not the only one that does this. Sony is pretty terrible at it, as is/was samsung. The large difference here is that Apple has become largely successful selling devices with these ports, so they are placed under the microscope more frequently.

Minus the fact that Sony and Samnsung phones use Micro USB for charging and data transpers and have for quite a while.

In the past 4 years the only major smart phone NOT use micro USB is Apple. Everyone else followed the standard and after it was agreed on. Hell they even had their dumb phones using Micro USB.

So again Apple is the one not following suit.

All Apple would need to do is on the side put a micro USB port.

magbarn
Nov 3, 2012, 06:36 PM
Minus the fact that Sony and Samnsung phones use Micro USB for charging and data transpers and have for quite a while.

In the past 4 years the only major smart phone NOT use micro USB is Apple. Everyone else followed the standard and after it was agreed on. Hell they even had their dumb phones using Micro USB.

So again Apple is the one not following suit.

All Apple would need to do is on the side put a micro USB port.

Considering how much Apple fought tooth and nail to trim off 6mm off the sim card let's you know how much room there is for a microusb connector in their current devices.

zhenya
Nov 3, 2012, 06:38 PM
Actually, it can, just maybe in different ways than what apple implemented. It can do video. It can do music. It can sync data. Again, all it can't do is be plugged in any way because it can't assign different tasks to different pins on the fly. Show me where that is actually necessary and I will eat my words. Otherwise, it is a wonderfully cool party trick that the average end user could care less about.

I already gave the exact answer earlier in this thread, post #56.

Do you need any ketchup or mustard with that? :)

Rodimus Prime
Nov 3, 2012, 06:45 PM
Considering how much Apple fought tooth and nail to trim off 6mm off the sim card let's you know how much room there is for a microusb connector in their current devices.

and then use their design requires the use of a tray that makes it larger than it was before along with using a larger connector makes that not hold water. Also the contacts being used to read a sim card take up more room that a micro....

tbrinkma
Nov 3, 2012, 08:04 PM
and then use their design requires the use of a tray that makes it larger than it was before along with using a larger connector makes that not hold water. Also the contacts being used to read a sim card take up more room that a micro....

Actually the use of their design (now the standard) doesn't *require* a tray. It just has a tray design included in the standard.

JAT
Nov 3, 2012, 09:18 PM
Only Apple can make 1000 types of adaptors and make a killing doing it.
You may have confused them with Radio Shack.

jsw
Nov 3, 2012, 09:33 PM
nagromme, I know I've been gone a long time, but it's amusing to me to see that sarcasm still isn't picked up on by so many people, no matter how blatant one tries to make it.

Your post was brilliant, by the way.

krravi
Nov 3, 2012, 11:59 PM
You may have confused them with Radio Shack.

What's the difference? With so many adaptors and exorbitant prices.

BC2009
Nov 4, 2012, 12:03 AM
Remember folks:

...

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

To answer your question: Yes, beautifully.

My favorite examples of the insanity are:

- Samsung Galaxy Tab has a proprietary connector (which looks amazingly like Apple's 30-pin just so you might try to jam the wrong plug in there and break it) and their adapters are comparable in price to Apple's.

- Microsoft Surface RT has a "video out" port which is NOT micro or mini HDMI, but a proprietary connector and they sell an adapter for HDMI which runs $39 (comparable to Apple's pricing)

- Samsung Galaxy S3 has a micro-USB port, but not a standard one. They added a bunch of extra pins to it for HDMI over USB support and it requires their proprietary-USB to HDMI adapter to function properly.

- When Motorola Xoom shipped it had "mini HDMI" (not today's micro HDMI) and micro USB (the beloved standard), and..... a proprietary charging port because USB could not provide enough power for it.

- A while back "mini USB" was the standard and it lasted all of 2.5 years before it was overtaken by "micro USB" so folks could be "thinner and lighter". However, due to several manufacturers (including Samsung) making custom micro-USB compatible plugs, it is likely we will see micro-USB fade out and get replaced by another "standard" and thus obsolete all the micro USB stuff anyway.

But Apple is the only one who makes non-standard proprietary ports and they are the only ones who switch the connectors on customers and make them purchase new adapters. The 30-pin connector out-lasted any port used on a mobile device that I can think of. I am betting Lightning will last just as long. What other "standard" port on a mobile device can claim a decade of not being replaced? Meanwhile other manufacturers have gone from USB to mini USB to micro USB and from HDMI to mini HDMI to micro HDMI and all the while mixing in their own proprietary ports when it served their purposes.

Lightning connectors are such a non-issue and folks try to pretend its a big deal. If it is a big deal it is because Apple is the only company that maintained the same port for a long time. Nobody else ever gave you a chance to get accustomed to your ports on your mobile devices. Apple developed Lightning so they can manage to keep the same port for another decade and build out yet another third-party accessory ecosystem.

In summary -- I loved your comment.

JAT
Nov 4, 2012, 12:18 AM
What's the difference? With so many adaptors and exorbitant prices.
I'm guessing you don't actually know anything about Apple or Radio Shack, then. :rolleyes:

Or jokes.

takezo808
Nov 4, 2012, 03:29 AM
Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.

• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

Marks up cable prices? really u think? 20 buck for a lightning cable is similar to many micro usb cables sold by name branded companies. Sure there are many generic micro usb makers, but to say all companies sell usb cables cheap is not true. Note everyone makes money off of selling cables even the cheap ones, no one sells it at cost or it would be about 50 cents to a dollar per cable. :rolleyes:

the adapters show that lighting is adaptive. There are HDMI, VGA, USB, and even old 30 pin adapters out. In order for a single connector to support all this is to be adaptive. It's because the connector is 100% digital, it does not require pinouts like the old analog connector does. The adpters have a chip in them that converts the digital signal into the analog signals or digital formats for the respective connector. Lightning can support many conectors of current or even in the future. Isn't that the definition of future proof.

No one wants thinner devices is just an individual opinion not a fact. many phones before iphone 5 were touting it's thiness from motorola's razor to even the samsung galaxy S3. They all got thinner. making electronics smaller reduces heat and increases battery life. It's how iphone 5 can offer more hardware in less space than iphone 4. New windows 8, phones, tablets, and ultrabooks are mimicking this trend as well.

mini usb is not dockable. there are many shelf speakers, speaker docks and every other audio accessory which has an ipod dock. This made coonecting an ipod very easy. while it will cost you 30 dollars extra to connect a new apple device to an old 30 pin dock, it's better than zero USB docks. You can argue that you can connect any android device to a speaker sytem using a standard stereo mini plug (the ear phone jack plug). But you can do that for the iphone 5 or any other lightning equipped apple device.

i know it's hard. Apple is just too good. it's hard for those other s to compete. Thus the need to spread missinformation :rolleyes:

zhenya
Nov 4, 2012, 05:13 AM
Marks up cable prices? really u think? 20 buck for a lightning cable is similar to many micro usb cables sold by name branded companies. Sure there are many generic micro usb makers, but to say all companies sell usb cables cheap is not true. Note everyone makes money off of selling cables even the cheap ones, no one sells it at cost or it would be about 50 cents to a dollar per cable. :rolleyes:

the adapters show that lighting is adaptive. There are HDMI, VGA, USB, and even old 30 pin adapters out. In order for a single connector to support all this is to be adaptive. It's because the connector is 100% digital, it does not require pinouts like the old analog connector does. The adpters have a chip in them that converts the digital signal into the analog signals or digital formats for the respective connector. Lightning can support many conectors of current or even in the future. Isn't that the definition of future proof.

No one wants thinner devices is just an individual opinion not a fact. many phones before iphone 5 were touting it's thiness from motorola's razor to even the samsung galaxy S3. They all got thinner. making electronics smaller reduces heat and increases battery life. It's how iphone 5 can offer more hardware in less space than iphone 4. New windows 8, phones, tablets, and ultrabooks are mimicking this trend as well.

mini usb is not dockable. there are many shelf speakers, speaker docks and every other audio accessory which has an ipod dock. This made coonecting an ipod very easy. while it will cost you 30 dollars extra to connect a new apple device to an old 30 pin dock, it's better than zero USB docks. You can argue that you can connect any android device to a speaker sytem using a standard stereo mini plug (the ear phone jack plug). But you can do that for the iphone 5 or any other lightning equipped apple device.

i know it's hard. Apple is just too good. it's hard for those other s to compete. Thus the need to spread missinformation :rolleyes:

You'd better duck 'cause that went right over your head!

Pegamush
Nov 4, 2012, 05:31 AM
it's incredible how much people can eulogize this new astonishing reversible cable.
suddenly everyone is an idiot and can't plug a cable anymore...

everything-i
Nov 4, 2012, 06:34 AM
Many of the posts in this thread seem to miss the point of lightning completely. The lightning connector is not a USB connector but when plugged into a USB adaptor can emulate a USB adaptor same as it emulates a 30 pin connector when the 30 pin adaptor is connected, or VGA or HDMI when either of those cables are connected. The electronics in the connectors provide identification of the interface that needs to be emulated and take care of signal mismatch which means that the interface cables contain the minimum electronics necessary and the heavy lifting is done by the lightning interface electronics on the 'i' device. If you fast forward this a few years the same lightning connector will be emulating some other connector that may not even been invented yet but it will still be the same lightning connector just a different cable. Micro USB has pretty much come to end of its life with many implementations already not following the spec properly to get round some of its limitations. Micro USB is fiddly most of the time and is very fragile in that connectors become loose and/or break frequently, it was a poor choice to standardise on because of this and is limited for future applications. Lightning cables will become much cheaper as the technology matures, more 3rd party adaptors become available and will be used for probably much longer than the connector that it replaces because it is future proofed by design.

everything-i
Nov 4, 2012, 06:50 AM
it's incredible how much people can eulogize this new astonishing reversible cable.
suddenly everyone is an idiot and can't plug a cable anymore...

Well micro USB may not be hard for you but my parents and others of there generation have problems with it because its just too small for them to easily see and is very fragile. Conversely they have had no problem using the lightning connector so don't assume that everyone has your level of visual acuity or dexterity and simply dismiss anyone who has problems as idiots.

Shimfs
Nov 4, 2012, 08:40 AM
Lightning is superior to µUSB. Lightning is superior to the 30 pin dock connector.

Is the 30 pin connector reversible? No.

Can you get video over µUSB? No.
Can you get analog audio over µUSB? No.
Is µUSB reversible? No.

Now. You can argue whether those line items are significant or not, but they are factual.

In practice, I find the reversibility of the lightning connector to be a huge win. It's relatively difficult to see which side of either the dock connector or the µUSB connector is which. It is, of course, a non-issue for Lightning.

A friend of mine is legally blind. He has found the Lightning connector to be a relative godsend.

None of this negates the points that have been made about Apple having such tight control over the accessories market, but those who argue that there are not real, credible advantages to Apple's connector are ignoring reality.


Can you get video over µUSB? No. = wrong answer. you CAN get video over micro USB.. you just need an adapter to convert the signal to HDMI, but it does allow for sending HDMI data..

this is just one random example: http://www.amazon.com/Menotek-Adapter-IMPROVED-Protocol-Sensation/dp/B005F9W6DU

zhenya
Nov 4, 2012, 08:47 AM
Originally Posted by lordofthereef
Actually, it can, just maybe in different ways than what apple implemented. It can do video. It can do music. It can sync data. Again, all it can't do is be plugged in any way because it can't assign different tasks to different pins on the fly. Show me where that is actually necessary and I will eat my words. Otherwise, it is a wonderfully cool party trick that the average end user could care less about.


I already gave the exact answer earlier in this
thread, post #56.

Do you need any ketchup or mustard with that? :)

Still waiting. The silence is deafening.

RobertoCravallo
Nov 4, 2012, 08:53 AM
Apple could cure Cancer and someone in these forums would complain about it. If you don't like apple then simply don't buy their products. I certainly don't waste my time posting crap on the Microsoft blog sites.
And then there are those, that take everything APPLE throws at them lying down.

everything-i
Nov 4, 2012, 09:06 AM
Well duh, with the use of a DAC - NOT natively.

I can get analogue audio from a USB port... With a USB DAC!

Come on...

But USB does not support this natively so any USB DAC would be a significantly more complex device. The point of lightning is that all the control circuitry is in the lightning interface so the connectors can be made a simple as possible. Then if you need to update to control something completely new its a firmware update so the lightning controller understands the new connector.

everything-i
Nov 4, 2012, 09:33 AM
nagromme, I know I've been gone a long time, but it's amusing to me to see that sarcasm still isn't picked up on by so many people, no matter how blatant one tries to make it.

Your post was brilliant, by the way.

It is a great post, I think, for some, he just did way too good a job of parodying the hater trolls that hang around these forums. :D

lordofthereef
Nov 4, 2012, 09:50 AM
Minus the fact that Sony and Samnsung phones use Micro USB for charging and data transpers and have for quite a while.

In the past 4 years the only major smart phone NOT use micro USB is Apple. Everyone else followed the standard and after it was agreed on. Hell they even had their dumb phones using Micro USB.

So again Apple is the one not following suit.

All Apple would need to do is on the side put a micro USB port.

Huh? We are arguing the same thing here, bud. You seem to have taken a part of what I said and turned it around.

I was merely pointing out that Apple is not the only one to do this. There are still dumb phones made by all of those companies that use the ridiculous proprietary chargers I am speaking of...

----------

Still waiting. The silence is deafening.

Sorry to keep you waiting. Unfortunately I have things to do other than just respond to posts here. By the way, what's with the attitude?

Driverless communication. Ok, but as far as making things cheaper, when the cost is transferred to the consumer (as it most obviously is) there is a trade-off. Cheaper manufacture of third party products for the manufacturer, and all the while the consumer fronts the bill. So, again, how is this better for the consumer? (note that I am agreeing with your driverless statement. That is an advantage over USB. But it raises the questions of: to whom? and why? I would argue that the advantages, to the consumer, do not outweigh the disadvantages).

I would argue that the reason more third party products are developed for iPhone is simply because that single product is in the hands of so many people. A great deal of these products seem to be docking devices, and a great number of those seem to be for audio use. With every other mobile OS there is, we have dozens of devices. In the years that iPhone has been around, we have had a whopping total of six. If I am a product developer, and I am seeing iPhones flying off the shelves, it makes sense that I am going to make my battery/case/speaker/model airplane controller for iPhone because, frankly, it's going to reach a wider audience. Conversely, I could make some ugly cable-ridden mess that just plugs into a micro USB on an Android/Windows/(insert mobile OS here), but I would have to worry about compatibility. This is not so much a weakness of micro usb as it is a weakness of the OS and the 183287462378476234 form factors of the hardwares that these other OS's run on.

zhenya
Nov 4, 2012, 10:11 AM
Driverless communication. Ok, but as far as making things cheaper, when the cost is transferred to the consumer (as it most obviously is) there is a trade-off. Cheaper manufacture of third party products for the manufacturer, and all the while the consumer fronts the bill. So, again, how is this better for the consumer?

I would argue that the reason more third party products are developed for iPhone is simply because that single product is in the hands of so many people. A great deal of these products seem to be docking devices, and a great number of those seem to be for audio use. With every other mobile OS there is, we have dozens of devices. In the years that iPhone has been around, we have had a whopping total of six. If I am a product developer, and I am seeing iPhones flying off the shelves, it makes sense that I am going to make my battery/case/speaker/model airplane controller for iPhone because, frankly, it's going to reach a wider audience. Conversely, I could make some ugly cable-ridden mess that just plugs into a micro USB on an Android/Windows/(insert mobile OS here), but I would have to worry about compatibility. This is not so much a weakness of micro usb as it is a weakness of the OS and the 183287462378476234 form factors of the hardwares that these other OS's run on.


You skipped over my original answer that quoted you, then made another extremely self-assured post that Apple was just screwing the customer. When you are that certain, you'd better understand the subject you are discussing. ;)

You still don't understand what this means or why it's important. Apple contains all the logic needed to interface with ANY device available today or dreamed up in the future within their iOS devices. It's built-in. Whereas USB requires drivers and intelligence built in to any accessories. That's expensive because it requires chips in the accessories and drivers to interface with the devices, and its inconsistent because there is no way to guarantee compatibility. If you want to release a new device with new features, the old accessories will not be compatible.

This is why there is a huge aftermarket for iOS products and virtually none for Android.

Other than the change from FireWire to USB and the recent change from 30 pin to lighting, EVERY iOS accessory made in the past 10 years has remained compatible because of the above design. It's not because iOS devices are more popular, it's because Apple put together an ingenious solution for accesorizing their devices in the aftermarket that was powerful and stable.

It's better for the consumer because we have a huge selection of accessories, most of which aren't even available for Android. (Just try to buy an alarm dock for an Android phone, even though almost all of them use the 'standard' micro USB).

the8thark
Nov 4, 2012, 10:29 AM
A product very useful. But so small you'd have to find a good way not to lose it.

Anuba
Nov 4, 2012, 10:44 AM
Seriously, what is the purpose of this? For the price of this, I could buy another Lightning cable instead.

Micro-USB is nowhere near as good as Lightning though, I have yet to see USB offer car integration as well as Apple's proprietary connectors.
Why are people (you're not alone) assuming this adapter has anything to do with backup, file transfer etc? The whole thread is nothing but arguments over the pros and cons of Lightning and micro-USB.

This is for charging.

The EU standard was born out of the fact that millions and millions of perfectly good power adapters ended up in landfills every year because manufacturers couldn't agree on a universal connector. Apart from the environmental benefits, it's quite practical. I remember how it was at work ten years ago... "Anyone got a SonyEricsson charger? I forgot mine at home!" / "Nope, Nokia here, sorry." / "Can't help either, I have a Motorola." / "Hey I have a SonyEricsson charger!" "Awesome... hold on, this doesn't fit." / "Oh, you've got one with the big smartphone connector, sorry, this one is for SonyEricsson's smaller phones, at least some of them, it seems to change every year..." / "Never mind."

Finding at least one colleague with a micro-USB cable or adapter lying around, on the other hand, is a no-brainer. (Cue the "I forgot my micro-USB to Lightning adapter at home!" scenario. ;) Right, well, the EU can't help that Apple chose the compliance-by-circumvention path...)

faroZ06
Nov 4, 2012, 11:48 AM
Commonplace MicroUSB chargers? MiniUSB is fairly common, but I've only seen a MicroUSB cable once or twice in my life here in the US.

----------

Remember folks:
• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.


This is actually true except that maybe 1/15 fake cables you buy will just be defective and not work at all. They're dirt cheap anyway, so whatever.

xraydoc
Nov 4, 2012, 11:54 AM
Ordered an adapter. Very handy to keep in the laptop bag for "emergencies."

lordofthereef
Nov 4, 2012, 12:22 PM
You skipped over my original answer that quoted you, then made another extremely self-assured post that Apple was just screwing the customer. When you are that certain, you'd better understand the subject you are discussing. ;)

You still don't understand what this means or why it's important. Apple contains all the logic needed to interface with ANY device available today or dreamed up in the future within their iOS devices. It's built-in. Whereas USB requires drivers and intelligence built in to any accessories. That's expensive because it requires chips in the accessories and drivers to interface with the devices, and its inconsistent because there is no way to guarantee compatibility. If you want to release a new device with new features, the old accessories will not be compatible.

This is why there is a huge aftermarket for iOS products and virtually none for Android.

Other than the change from FireWire to USB and the recent change from 30 pin to lighting, EVERY iOS accessory made in the past 10 years has remained compatible because of the above design. It's not because iOS devices are more popular, it's because Apple put together an ingenious solution for accesorizing their devices in the aftermarket that was powerful and stable.

It's better for the consumer because we have a huge selection of accessories, most of which aren't even available for Android. (Just try to buy an alarm dock for an Android phone, even though almost all of them use the 'standard' micro USB).

A quick search found a couple alarm clock docks for Android. Here is one of them. (http://www.hsn.com/electronics/ihome-alarm-clock-radio-for-android-smartphones_pf-1123857_xp.aspx?&mr:referralID=2ed8c73a-26ab-11e2-97b3-001b2166becc&rdr=1&cm_mmc=Shopping%20Engine-_-PLA-_-Electronics-_-6875762) They seem to be price extremely competitively with iOS options, too.

And no, I didn't skip your point. I will say that this is going to be my last reply if you continue to be condescending. It is neither necessary, nor does it help to get your point across.

I will say that I disagree with the reasons you mentioned for there being more accessories for iOS than Android. In fact, I mentioned the reasons why I feel there are far more accessories. Look at the last three generations of iPhone. The dimensions (of the devises), for docking purposes, are roughly the same. Now take an Android or Windows Phone device. They come in drastically varying sizes and form factors. One would either need to design some sort of dock that "molds" to the device, which has been done before, with limited success (IMO) or design some sort of insert that is device specific. But at that point, whenever a newer device comes out (something that happens weekly...) the developers are left continuing development on inserts for a device that is already on market. THAT would increase costs tenfold over developing drivers for the OS and for your product, and then using similar drivers/tech in future products.

----------

Commonplace MicroUSB chargers? MiniUSB is fairly common, but I've only seen a MicroUSB cable once or twice in my life here in the US.

Woah! That's (legitimately) shocking. Just about the only thing I can think of that still uses mini USB (today) is the PS3 remote!

----------

Why are people (you're not alone) assuming this adapter has anything to do with backup, file transfer etc? The whole thread is nothing but arguments over the pros and cons of Lightning and micro-USB.



Because Apple's site states it can be used for charging and data transfers alike.

Anuba
Nov 4, 2012, 12:35 PM
Commonplace MicroUSB chargers? MiniUSB is fairly common, but I've only seen a MicroUSB cable once or twice in my life here in the US.
It became a standard in December 2010. 90% of the manufacturers signed up. The commission estimated that it would take 3-4 years for phones with microUSB to become predominant. It hasn't been 2 years just yet.

MiniUSB probably wouldn't have been a very future proof standard, given the thinness race. The micro connector is considerably thinner.

http://phandroid.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/microusb-vs-miniusb.jpg

zhenya
Nov 4, 2012, 12:38 PM
A quick search found a couple alarm clock docks for Android. Here is one of them. (http://www.hsn.com/electronics/ihome-alarm-clock-radio-for-android-smartphones_pf-1123857_xp.aspx?&mr:referralID=2ed8c73a-26ab-11e2-97b3-001b2166becc&rdr=1&cm_mmc=Shopping%20Engine-_-PLA-_-Electronics-_-6875762) They seem to be price extremely competitively with iOS options, too.

And no, I didn't skip your point. I will say that this is going to be my last reply if you continue to be condescending. It is neither necessary, nor does it help to get your point across.

I will say that I disagree with the reasons you mentioned for there being more accessories for iOS than Android. In fact, I mentioned the reasons why I feel there are far more accessories. Look at the last three generations of iPhone. The dimensions (of the devises), for docking purposes, are roughly the same. Now take an Android or Windows Phone device. They come in drastically varying sizes and form factors. One would either need to design some sort of dock that "molds" to the device, which has been done before, with limited success (IMO) or design some sort of insert that is device specific. But at that point, whenever a newer device comes out (something that happens weekly...) the developers are left continuing development on inserts for a device that is already on market. THAT would increase costs tenfold over developing drivers for the OS and for your product, and then using similar drivers/tech in future products.[COLOR="#808080"]

----------
.

Look more closely at that dock and you'll notice that like most every one I've ever seen, it only charges through USB. It provides a mini audio cable for audio.

Yes, the form factor helps to some degree, but every device even from Apple generally requires a change to the accessory if a good fit is desired.

I apologize for the attitude. There is a bit of frustration in me from hearing the same arguments repeated over and over on this subject without having the requisite understanding of why the choice is being made. Its honestly one of the best things that Apple has ever done for their device ecosystem; it provides tremendous value to their users, and I'm actually concerned they are on the verge of screwing up the transition to a new connector by delaying the availability of adapters and aftermarket accessories too long.

The reasons you bring up don't hurt, but if iOS accessories also required two cables to accomplish basic tasks, and there was no guarantee that next years device would be compatible with that $200 radio you just bought (because it might require a driver update), there would be only a few accessories made available. Coincidentally just like the Android accessory market.

Edit: search Amazon for 'Android clock radio.'

At first blush it appears there are lots of options. With a closer look, they all require either an audio cable (meaning they are a glorified speaker - no advanced device control, etc) or the ones that appear to be fancier have to be connected via Bluetooth. For iOS, even the $35 radios have basic hardware buttons for playback control, the fancier ones add more control or even remotes; not possible with USB.

Anuba
Nov 4, 2012, 12:51 PM
Because Apple's site states it can be used for charging and data transfers alike.
Sure, "can be", but I was talking about its main purpose, in response to the question "Seriously, what is the purpose of this?". Apple designed it in order to comply with the EU standard for phone chargers, that's why the adapter exists in the first place, and chargers is what the standard is all about... for data transfers the manufacturers can put 50-pin SCSI on the phones for all the commission cares, as long as the charging is done via microUSB, but obviously Apple also made sure that the adapter can handle data transfers, and that's... good, I guess.

lordofthereef
Nov 4, 2012, 12:58 PM
Look more closely at that dock and you'll notice that like most every one I've ever seen, it only charges through USB. It provides a mini audio cable for audio.

Yes, the form factor helps to some degree, but every device even from Apple generally requires a change to the accessory if a good fit is desired.

I apologize for the attitude.

Snipped for brevity.

I know how heated a discussion can get, especially when you are passionate about something. But see how much better your point comes across (at least IMO)? I appreciate your toning things down. :)

Anyway, while there is an analog audio cable included, it's note needed. Here is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwfv7oYCkWs) (it's a little long, because it's an unboxing as well, but fast forward about half way and you will see what you need to see). The large issue, as I pointed out before, is how "wobbly" the phones are in the dock. Truth be told, it looks more like a dock than it actually is IMO. But anyway, when THAT is what you had to try and get around with a bazillion devices, would you care to spend the time doing it? I know I sure wouldn't.

----------

Sure, "can be", but I was talking about its main purpose, in response to the question "Seriously, what is the purpose of this?". Apple designed it in order to comply with the EU standard for phone chargers, that's why the adapter exists in the first place, and chargers is what the standard is all about... for data transfers the manufacturers can put 50-pin SCSI on the phones for all the commission cares, as long as the charging is done via microUSB, but obviously Apple also made sure that the adapter can handle data transfers, and that's... good, I guess.

Well, you did ask why we were discussing this. The adapter is being sold in the US, where there is no such law. So... that is why people are discussing it. People are discussing what the point of selling it in the US is in the first place (sans law requiring them to do so). Was only trying to politely answer your question is all. :)

solace
Nov 4, 2012, 01:31 PM
I will be buying one of these and painting it black, to use along with a black micro USB charger cable for my car. I don't like having a white cable being super obvious when I leave my car parked in unknown areas.

zhenya
Nov 4, 2012, 01:37 PM
Snipped for brevity.

I know how heated a discussion can get, especially when you are passionate about something. But see how much better your point comes across (at least IMO)? I appreciate your toning things down. :)

Anyway, while there is an analog audio cable included, it's note needed. Here is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwfv7oYCkWs) (it's a little long, because it's an unboxing as well, but fast forward about half way and you will see what you need to see). The large issue, as I pointed out before, is how "wobbly" the phones are in the dock. Truth be told, it looks more like a dock than it actually is IMO. But anyway, when THAT is what you had to try and get around with a bazillion devices, would you care to spend the time doing it? I know I sure wouldn't.

Cheers. :)

That is the same device that Amazon lists as their first hit. Nearly every reviewer complains about the fact that it needs the separate audio cable. A sample review from last month:

The one thing that made me jealous of the iPhone was the litany of devices (including iHome's) that worked with it. I had this vision that I'd be able to dock my phone in, and play audio off it while charging it.

Sadly, no.

Strike 1: In order to work, the phone needs both a USB connection and a 3.5mm line in. When I think about it, it does make sense, since there's no standard for playing 2.1 channel audio out of a microUSB connection.
Strike 2: As other reviewers have alluded, the iHome can't really hold the Galaxy Nexus with any sort of stability--the phone wobbles in the dock if I touch the screen.
Strike 3: There is no integration whatsoever between the phone and the alarm clock.

However, the thing that made me ultimately return this device was that for no good reason, audio would suddenly stop playing, and I'd have to turn it back on again.

Save your money, get a speaker dock instead.

The video did not verify anything for me - it was not clear to me that he wasn't using the line out because he skipped that part of the video, and he uses the phones volume rocker to control the volume. As is common when having to make an accessory that fits all kinds of devices, the phone barely sits upright in the dock.

Anyhow, I've never claimed it to be impossible to make an accessory do this for Android, we know it is quite possible. The problem is that it will work with a limited number of devices and isn't future-proof, and we've still only covered the most basic function of the Apple cable.

Anuba
Nov 4, 2012, 01:53 PM
Well, you did ask why we were discussing this. The adapter is being sold in the US, where there is no such law. So... that is why people are discussing it. People are discussing what the point of selling it in the US is in the first place (sans law requiring them to do so). Was only trying to politely answer your question is all. :)
Right, well, the adapter may seem pointless today, but once companies like Logitech, Belkin, Kensington etc are producing tons of universal accessories w/ microUSB and BMW/Audi/Mercedes/VW start offering microUSB dock options on cars, it'll be a different story.

charlituna
Nov 4, 2012, 02:08 PM
and typical Apple par as normal goes against the spirit of the law any how. Still crap that Apple does not have a micro USB port directly on the phone for charging.

The 'spirit' of the law was that consumers be able to mix and match chargers. With the adapter they can. The court agreed that this was enough, sorry that you don't like it

----------

Apple could cure Cancer and someone in these forums would complain about it. If you don't like apple then simply don't buy their products. I certainly don't waste my time posting crap on the Microsoft blog sites.

Of course they would.

It's too expensive (should be free of course)
It's only available at Apple approved hospitals
They sue anyone that tries to copy their cure

Etc

----------

the world is going to end ohh snappp, what are we going to do with out our cell phones

The world will be massively overgrown in a decade, we'll have to go back to farming our own food, and hunting with bows and arrows. The government will fall and everyone will become master swordsmen.

Or so says JJ Abrams

----------

Can you get video over µUSB? No. = wrong answer. you CAN get video over micro USB.. you just need an adapter to convert the signal to HDMI, but it does allow for sending HDMI data..

this is just one random example: http://www.amazon.com/Menotek-Adapter-IMPROVED-Protocol-Sensation/dp/B005F9W6DU

You need to get a adapter. That is key. Folks are screaming they need an adapter with the lighting plug but they need one for micro USB et as well. So what's the difference really?

Rodimus Prime
Nov 4, 2012, 02:15 PM
The 'spirit' of the law was that consumers be able to mix and match chargers. With the adapter they can. The court agreed that this was enough, sorry that you don't like it[COLOR="#808080"]


Clearly you do not under stand the difference between spirit and legal requirement. The Spirit would be standard port to charge the phone. Apple pushed to expanded the law to include just having the charger be acceptable.

Apple is going against the spirit of the law.

----------



You need to get a adapter. That is key. Folks are screaming they need an adapter with the lighting plug but they need one for micro USB et as well. So what's the difference really?

Umm one is for charging which is the most common task. The other is for HDMI which is really used.

That is the difference. The key part is how often. One is every day the other is once in a blue moon.

Anuba
Nov 4, 2012, 02:41 PM
and typical Apple par as normal goes against the spirit of the law any how. Still crap that Apple does not have a micro USB port directly on the phone for charging.
It's not a law. The commission hasn't made it flat out illegal to sell phones that don't comply with the standard. I understand the confusion since a lot of US-based sources refer to it as a law, but it's not. It's simply a standards initiative that the EU commission pushes, and 90% of the mobile phone manufacturers signed an agreement to comply with it, voluntarily. The commission represents 502 million first-world consumers, so manufacturers tend to listen.

lordofthereef
Nov 4, 2012, 03:08 PM
The video did not verify anything for me - it was not clear to me that he wasn't using the line out

The line out is never connected.

thatoneguy82
Nov 4, 2012, 05:21 PM
I will be buying one of these and painting it black, to use along with a black micro USB charger cable for my car. I don't like having a white cable being super obvious when I leave my car parked in unknown areas.

This is actually something that concerns me as well. I don't like buying white cables for my car. It's not like I go anywhere questionable every time nor do I live in a questionable area, it's just me. I'm odd. Haha.

And, I also I have a cable that splits apart into either micro USB, mini USB or 30-pin connector to satisfy the friends that ride with me. I'd rather keep that than putting a new lightning cable in my car.

orangebluedevil
Nov 4, 2012, 07:54 PM
Did anyone find a white, high quality, 10 foot length, USB to micro-USB cord to pair this with? This would be a perfect way to get a 10 foot length charger.

Aidan5806
Nov 4, 2012, 08:23 PM
Since this is the first generation of devices with Lightning connectors there should at least be a 30-pin adapter in the box, I think that's fair.

If i was a business like apple that would be the opposite of what i would want to do. They desperately need to push this standard through so accessory makers will do what they do, especially this holiday season.

musukosan
Nov 4, 2012, 08:29 PM
Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.

• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

It took me until about the 5th line to realize you were being sarcastic :o:D

solace
Nov 4, 2012, 10:56 PM
This is actually something that concerns me as well. I don't like buying white cables for my car. It's not like I go anywhere questionable every time nor do I live in a questionable area, it's just me. I'm odd. Haha.

And, I also I have a cable that splits apart into either micro USB, mini USB or 30-pin connector to satisfy the friends that ride with me. I'd rather keep that than putting a new lightning cable in my car.

Hah. Yeah, I don't drive through or park in that sketchy of areas either, but any reason to not give would be thieves another reason to try and break in, the better.

And like you, I too just like the look of black/grey cables along with my interior.

I found a $10 micro USB charger at Target that also has a mini USB adapter, so like you said, then I have all possible chargers for friends :)

gaximus
Nov 5, 2012, 02:13 AM
Actually, it can, just maybe in different ways than what apple implemented. It can do video. It can do music. It can sync data. Again, all it can't do is be plugged in any way because it can't assign different tasks to different pins on the fly. Show me where that is actually necessary and I will eat my words. Otherwise, it is a wonderfully cool party trick that the average end user could care less about.

Actually the average user only care about that feature. Ask any non-techie what the think about the new connector and they'll say "it can be inserted anyway".

Also I think you meant "couldn't care less"

SimonTheSoundMa
Nov 5, 2012, 03:32 AM
When I, and many others, placed their orders for the iP5, the Apple web site stated that a connector WAS included in the box. This was later deemed to have been a mistake and Apple relied on their web site terms and conditions to say that they were not responsible for errors.

With too much time on my hands, I challenged this, and initially got the usual brush off. However when I wrote them a letter stating that I was about to take them through the UK Small Claims Court, I received a telephone call and a nice Ł40 credit to my account - 'to cover my unsatisfactory Apple experience'

Anyone else who ordered the iP5 in the first few hours before Apple changed their site should demand a connector or the value back as a refund.
Everyone in the UK.

You can't sign away your statuary rights or any laws using terms and conditions or anything similar.

This should fall under the Sales of Goods Act as being mis-sold as the product was not sold as described. Worth everyone chasing it up as Apple have broken the law. :)

stordoff
Nov 5, 2012, 07:13 AM
With too much time on my hands, I challenged this, and initially got the usual brush off. However when I wrote them a letter stating that I was about to take them through the UK Small Claims Court, I received a telephone call and a nice Ł40 credit to my account - 'to cover my unsatisfactory Apple experience'

If you contact the right part of Apple, their customer service is exceptional. My mother was dealing with them about some issues with my MacBook (the local Apple store was useless - I was on my 7th replacement charger), and happened to mention that the price of the iMac had dropped a few weeks after we purchased one. We got an Ł80 store credit, even though it was just an off-the-cuff remark.

----------

It is foolish to buy one if these. In the long-run, it is more cost effective to just buy a lightening cable.

Not if you have multiple micro-USB chargers already.

ncaissie
Nov 5, 2012, 09:14 AM
I'm happy with what was included. I know I'm not the norm, but I don't have any devices right now that use a micro-usb cable.
I have devices and docking station but still happy with the Lightning connector. It feels solid. As does everything tech changes.

theluggage
Nov 5, 2012, 09:33 AM
The "spirit" of the silly European law is clearly not in the interest of innovation or improvement- something you would realize if you have ever invented anything.

Stupid laws are stupid.

Actually - the spirit of the EU law is quite sensible. It's the implementation - specifying what type of connector should be in the device that is stupid. Apple's long-time solution for all iOS devices - put a USB A socket on the power supply so that the device could be charged using the same cable that is required to connect it to a computer - has the same practical effect. I already have all the USB power supplies I need, and when I travel I need only take one iPad PSU and a couple of cables with me to charge all my gadgets.

The EU reg will fall apart as soon as HTC, Samsung et. al. try to make phones that are too thin to accommodate a microUSB, switch to wireless charging or realise that they don't want the fugly USB 3 Micro-connector (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USB_3.0_Micro_B_plug.PNG) besmirching their phones. It also enables cheapskate manufacturers to ship power-supplies with captive microUSB cables.

As for Lightning - the problem is that there doesn't seem to be much of a user benefit (apart from being easier to plug in) at the moment - just the hassle of changing kit and a lack of compatible accessories (where's the Lightning version of the Camera Connection Kit, for example?)

theluggage
Nov 5, 2012, 09:53 AM
USB does not support outputs like: HDMI, VGA, Analoge Audio, Digital Audio Streaming. Or Inputs like SD card reader or USB in interface as it is not reversible.

Ok, its not quite in the shops yet, but I think this sinks most of those points:

http://www.clove.co.uk/samsung-galaxy-note-ii-smart-dock

...all via a MicroUSB connector.

Maybe Apple should prove how wonderful Lightning is by bringing out something better.

Meanwhile, stuff that is available:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Genuine-Samsung-Galaxy-i9300-Adapter/dp/B008FBQ9MY

(...and if you can do HDMI you can do digital audio).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/T-Flash-Adapter-Samsung-GT-i9100-GT-N7000/dp/B005FUNQXS/ref=pd_bxgy_ce_img_b

zhenya
Nov 5, 2012, 10:00 AM
Ok, its not quite in the shops yet, but I think this sinks most of those points:

http://www.clove.co.uk/samsung-galaxy-note-ii-smart-dock

...all via a MicroUSB connector.

Maybe Apple should prove how wonderful Lightning is by bringing out something better.

Meanwhile, stuff that is available:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Genuine-Samsung-Galaxy-i9300-Adapter/dp/B008FBQ9MY

(...and if you can do HDMI you can do digital audio).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/T-Flash-Adapter-Samsung-GT-i9100-GT-N7000/dp/B005FUNQXS/ref=pd_bxgy_ce_img_b

All that dock does is allow you to connect devices TO the Galaxy Note. It doesn't provide any interface between the device and accessories which is the entire point behind Apple's proprietary connectors. On top of that it's designed for one specific model that will shortly be obsolete.

It's basically a docking station like you'd have for a laptop computer.

primetime3d
Nov 5, 2012, 12:10 PM
Apple is in the business of making money for their shareholders.

I agree that their prices are exorbitant but this keeps their profit margins high which keeps your 401k from losing money since your fund, most likely, has Apple stock which is buoying the tech shares that are tanking right now.

The decision to go with the lightning connector vs. the micro-USB is a sound business decision.

If people really had a problem with the price, then they wouldn't be purchasing an Apple product.

george-brooks
Nov 5, 2012, 12:12 PM
Wait, what?? This is a surprise! This takes care of a lot of problems!

How much, $29? ha ha

realjerk
Nov 5, 2012, 12:26 PM
Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.

No, it is a standard chip.

• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.

Well, not much anyway.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.

No, it is in there to identify different kinds of adapters, and in applicable cases switch pins. Don't spread stupid ideas that you don't understand.

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.

No, USB can only do a subset of what Lightning can. USB is only one of the things Lightning can carry. Don't spread stupid ideas that you don't understand.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.

I think reversible connectors are brilliant, and many others too. You are just running out of arguments (not even half way through).

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.

Oh, really? How come they are typically as expensive for all higher status brands then?

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.

No, a lot of them aren't.

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.

What?

People had to wait quite a while for 30-pin accessories. It seems they have been selling quote good anyway, and still do.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.

What? Are you for real?

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.

It doesn't? It does USB, that you says can do it all. How come it doesn't?

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

Yours? No, but we have got a feeling...

zhenya
Nov 5, 2012, 12:29 PM
nagromme, I know I've been gone a long time, but it's amusing to me to see that sarcasm still isn't picked up on by so many people, no matter how blatant one tries to make it.

Your post was brilliant, by the way.

LOL. Page 6 and people still haven't caught on. :p

No, it is a standard chip.



Well, not much anyway.



No, it is in there to identify different kinds of adapters, and in applicable cases switch pins. Don't spread stupid ideas that you don't understand.



No, USB can only do a subset of what Lightning can. USB is only one of the things Lightning can carry. Don't spread stupid ideas that you don't understand.



I think reversible connectors are brilliant, and many others too. You are just running out of arguments (not even half way through).



Oh, really? How come they are typically as expensive for all higher status brands then?



No, a lot of them aren't.



What?

People had to wait quite a while for 30-pin accessories. It seems they have been selling quote good anyway, and still do.



What? Are you for real?



It doesn't? It does USB, that you says can do it all. How come it doesn't?



Yours? No, but we have got a feeling...

Pegamush
Nov 5, 2012, 01:44 PM
oooh please enough with this all this!!
am i the only one thinking the best charging connector ever was this:
http://www.retrons.com/image/1136_nokia%201b.jpg

it's small, smaller than every other connector on any smartphone.
you can plug it in infinite directions, ligtning only support two, microUSB just one.
it does what it's needed for: CHARGE the battery. stop.
for music you use a dammit 3.5 jack cable, for video you use wifi signal, and for everything else you use the cloud (no intention on raising a discussion about clouds here and now).
my job is done here.

elec999
Nov 5, 2012, 02:26 PM
I dont get it, why would anyone want to but this adapter, when the cable is $2 more or same price?

theluggage
Nov 5, 2012, 04:28 PM
All that dock does is allow you to connect devices TO the Galaxy Note. It doesn't provide any interface between the device and accessories which is the entire point behind Apple's proprietary connectors.

Nevertheless, this does a lot of things via a microUSB port that people are claiming that you 'can't do via microUSB port'. Although this particular dock isn't out yet (and as you point out, only works with one phone), USB host connectors and 'MHL' HDMI-over-USB adapters are widespread (the latter support HDMI-CEC so if you connect it to a TV your TV remote should drive the phone).

I presume that it can do these things because the microUSB port in the Samsung phones isn't 'just' USB but can sense what is connected to it and dynamically re-assign pins to produce HDMI (just like Lightning), and/or there is chippery in the dock such as a D-to-A converter to produce analog audio (just like Lightning).

The point is: 'can't do HDMI/Analog audio/USB Host' is not a justification for Apple avoiding microUSB since Samsung have managed to create a 'smart' USB port that does all three and has the advantage that it defaults to USB, so it doesn't need an expensive 'smart cable' for basic sync & charge.

On the other hand, I think the Lightning connector looks better engineered than microUSB - it's just a pity that Apple didn't come out with any 'wow' accessories on launch day to offset the inconvenience of having to change connectors.

Blackforge
Nov 5, 2012, 05:42 PM
oooh please enough with this all this!!
am i the only one thinking the best charging connector ever was this:
Image (http://www.retrons.com/image/1136_nokia%201b.jpg)

it's small, smaller than every other connector on any smartphone.
you can plug it in infinite directions, ligtning only support two, microUSB just one.
it does what it's needed for: CHARGE the battery. stop.
for music you use a dammit 3.5 jack cable, for video you use wifi signal, and for everything else you use the cloud (no intention on raising a discussion about clouds here and now).
my job is done here.

Ever have the pin from the DC jack on the device snap off into the plug? Bent the pin inside the DC Jack? It happens. Part of the design purpose for lightning was to try to prevent connector damage on either end of the connection.

dragje
Nov 6, 2012, 05:39 AM
I start to dislike Apple more and more. Don't get me wrong, I'm a long time Apple user since the day Apple was almost bankrupt where Bill Gates came for the rescue.

As a Music Technology student and graphical designer I bought a 7100 Mac at the time and it was truly a time where Apple started to fight back against the, in their eyes, big corporate business whom made bad devises. Young as I was then I believed Apple was, of course, the opposite of that image. By the time Apple came with really powerful products since they released MacOSX. Also when Apple where able to let Motorola go, as 'the' chipmaker for Apple at the time, and move on using Intel the machines got better and better as did the OSX system of Apple.

Then came the iPod. The "revolutionary" device brought by Apple. At least, that's what Apple like people to believe. Anyway, needless to say that this product was much better then it's rivals. It was not particularly the device itself, the hardware, but also because of the GUI (graphical user interface). Other devises where slow and when having 1000 songs on board you needed to click down 500 times (as example) to reach your desired song while the iPod had this stirring wheel...

To keep a long story short. Apple had, with some right, much success with the iPod and the iPhone made it all come together. Brilliant, can't state otherwise. But ever since 'that' success Apple has slowly turned into the opponent where in resent days Apple considered that opponent as 'the enemy'. And even worse, where Apple had foot on the ground in the expert and professional market, both the design market and more and more in the video market as well they all lost that by making poor products.

To name a few huge mistakes:

- Video
With Final Cut Apple had been able to get trough in the professional marked of editing. For my profession I visit quite a few professional film agencies and Apple was all over the place. With the release of Final Cut X that changed dramatically. All the old projects where useless all in the sudden. And the new software could only do about 5% of what it's previous version could do. With the release of this Final Cut X Apple lost it's foot on ground for the professional market. I don't see Apple products in big editing suits any longer, it's all simply replaced by PC's and Adobe editing and third parties editing software.

The consumer-market, the masses, more important

Apple used to have a stand at the IBC (International Broadcasting Conference) in Amsterdam the Netherlands. For years Apple is no-where to be found. And with good reason. Apple is no match among the professional market that makes high-end computers and software. The Apple Pro, where I'm still working with, machines are highly outdated and a pimped PC computer runs circles around the Mac Pro when it comes to power, performance in any field.

Anyone remember that Apple used to have these commercials about how much 'faster' their computers where compared to the PC? Why do you think they stop walking that road? Simply answer, Apple computers are no match for the high-end PC computers. And quite frankly, in everything, Apple shows it simply doesn't care one bit. It's the masses what's important, the masses want iPad's, iPods, iPhones, all three lines starting with an 'i' but I also simply could have said: gadgets, gadgets, gadgets.

Don't get me wrong, I use the iPhone and the iPad, very happy with those. But I simply don't care if the iPhone will be even 10% lighter or that the new iPad is slightly faster then it's previous model. When I talk computers I talk serious business. I want machines that do serious stuff where I earn my money with. The iPad, iPhone, iPod's are all gadgets, very handy and needed gadgets needless to say, for on the road. But in MY office I want horsepower!

And that's why I start to dislike Apple more and more because they simply don't deliver where in the past they did!

And I'm not even talking about the price tags which are ridiculous funny when you have to pay about 30 euro's for a simple connecter that enables me to put my iPhone 5 in my dekstop iPhone holder with a box attached to it.

I'm telling you folks, all tough Apple does makes brilliant designed products, if they keep heading to walk down this pad they will loose their most important customers, those who payed for Apple products even in times the company was almost bankrupt, simply because they believed that Apple products where simply powerfull and that was Apple's vision as well, to make really powerfull machines.

I hope Apple will keep it's promise to unleash a serious horse when talking about power in beginning of 2013, else I'm forced to flip over to PC machines.

My 2 Cents.

NeroAZ
Nov 6, 2012, 09:33 AM
This and other such behavior is to switch to a different brand the next time I am up for a new phone.

Don't get me wrong, I love my MACs but the APPLE politics with the phone are just getting me pi...d off. I will not play along anymore and pay redicilous prices for cheap chinese adaptors.

I wonder how many people are happy about the new plug? How many have to throw out accessories they paid big bucks for before APPLE went and changed the plug.

I will stick to my APPLE PCs, but maybe it is just time to try a SAMSUNG phone.

Please don't call me a troll, I had one of the first APPLE II PCs way back when. I am sure there will be people sitting in front of APPLE stores at two in the morning to buy these adaptors......

Quit being a weenie! You cannot expect technology to not evolve!

Do you complain that macs and iPods no longer use FireWire 400 ports?

My Sony alarm clock I've been using for like 4 years to charge my iPhones and play music on in my bedroom still has life in it and works great with my iPhone 5 with an adaptor!

OldSchoolMacGuy
Nov 6, 2012, 11:38 AM
I dont get it, why would anyone want to but this adapter, when the cable is $2 more or same price?

With this adaptor, I can carry 1 charger for my phone and my girlfriend's phone. I can use the chargers of friends with Android phones. Also I can buy a 10ft long Micro USB cable and use it to charge my iPhone where the current iPhone charger cables are less than 3ft long.

lilgto64
Nov 6, 2012, 08:21 PM
I am not quite sure if are serious or troll baiting or what.

Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.



Where are your secret documents indicating the $0 cost for the engineering team (or person) and design work etc of the chip? TANSTAAFL baby - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch



• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.



Again, where are your secret documents showing that it is possible to have Santa's Elves manufacture these chips from Fairy Dust(TM)?



• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.



Not sure on this one - but where is the evidence that those doing the tear-downs aren't spreading F.U.D. and click-bait and there really is something in there that is innovative and highly functional, or laying the foundation for some future capability that will be revolutionary?



• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.



If USB is so wonderful then why do we have USB 1, USB 2, USB 3, Mini-A, Mini-B, Micro-A, Micro-B, Micro-AB, in some cases both Male and Female - yeah, USB is the cat's meow alright. Got an I/O requirement? We'll have I got a spec for that, hang on it's in here somewhere...



• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.



I won't speak to Apple's Fetishes, but as for reversible, I like it - in fact it would be even better if the connectors on both ends of the cable where the same - making the cable itself reversible - kinda like Tunderbolt cables (well, except the connector plug on that is not reversible). And don't even suggest USB cables are reversible - there are some that have USB-A male on both ends perhaps but that is about it.



• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.



Really? Ever hear of Monster Cables or most any retail store that sells just about anything. Selling at cost? that is the perhaps the third fastest way to put yourself out of business.



• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.



Not so fast there - I have numerous 3rd party cables - and they are by and large not as high a quality as Apple branded (or other branded, Belkin for instance) cables and some of them have failed. Not sure if I have ever had an Apple cable fail, ever, sure I have had some Apple products, or components of Apple products fail, but can't think of a cable that ever did.



• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.



Lightning has been out for what a month or so and 3rd party devices are beginning to appear, not bad considering the secrecy Apple has tried to have around new products. This is only an issue for early adopters anyway. And "Waiting for them is simply not possible" seems to me that is the only thing that is possible - or did someone take away your lollipop and make you cry?



• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.



Right, ever see the computer bag of a person who actually get work done with a computer, Apple or otherwise? Lemme see if I can find the bad man who stole your lolli.....



• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.



Sounds like Apple then has solved your problem for you - they have given you everything you need in the box and you have just invalidated several or your own points. For me - I have something like 14 different cables, chargers, docks, car chargers, and retractable cords for my iOS devices - makes it easier to leave one everywhere I am likely to need it that to cart one around and recall where I last used it.



Have I summed up the insanity? :)



Yes, you have summed up YOUR insanity quite nicely, thank you.

:apple::apple::apple::apple::apple:

----------

LOL. Page 6 and people still haven't caught on. :p

I only read the first two pages of comments before posting my reply to that - although I did ask if it was meant to be sarcastic - then went back and read some more posts.

Of course if some Fandroid where to stumble across that it could be taken as the confirmation that all their reasons not to like Apple or the iPhone are right.

RobertoCravallo
Nov 7, 2012, 07:54 AM
Quit being a weenie! You cannot expect technology to not evolve!

Do you complain that macs and iPods no longer use FireWire 400 ports?

My Sony alarm clock I've been using for like 4 years to charge my iPhones and play music on in my bedroom still has life in it and works great with my iPhone 5 with an adaptor!
Bet that looks really nice with the adaptor stuck in there!! Thank god APPLE still has a lot of customers, that just buy anything, no matter the price, APPLE throws at them.

Hidesuru
Nov 7, 2012, 09:37 AM
Apple could cure Cancer and someone in these forums would complain about it. If you don't like apple then simply don't buy their products. I certainly don't waste my time posting crap on the Microsoft blog sites.

THIS attitude is nonsense.

I DID buy an apple product, because the pros outweighed the cons. I am perfectly entitled, then, to not like certain aspects of the device. As such I SHOULD vocalize these complaints so that the manufacturer can address them IF IT SO CHOOSES.

What I do not have the right to do is feel entitled to have my every whim catered to by the manufacturer just because I bought one device out of the many millions they sold.

If you are not complaining on the microsoft blog sites I imagine that is because you do not own Microsoft products. If that is the case, fine. Even then I would think you have the right to post over there if your purpose is to say "If you fixed these things I would consider buying your product" and not "har har let me piss off the M$ fanboys, hurrrr".

Trolls are no fun, honest discourse, even in the face of disagreement is a wonderful thing.

unplugme71
Nov 8, 2012, 06:26 AM
Wow, you are a tool. I responded after some of your points. So read below.

Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.
• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.
- So R&D, Engineering, Manufacturing costs nothing to develop? Ok.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.
- If Apple kills third party accessory companies, then many people wouldn't buy their product because that's how they use their iDevice.
- So how does something like this work in either orientation when plugged in?

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.
- Last I checked, USB-only limits features that other manufacturers can do with their devices. The 30-pin was fine then, but it was wide and sometimes difficult to plug in or remove. The lightning is much easier. After the initial crying of customers, people, including myself, actually like its ease of use.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.
- I like thinner and lighter. As long as my apps run fast and I can still hold onto it, then i'm all up for it.

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.
- So Belkin, Bose, Targus, etc sell their cables and adapters at cost? HAHAHAHA

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.
- Maybe, as long as no wires cross its path to cause interference. And if it deals with power, I rather have something approved to work by the manufacturer. Why cheap out on a $2 cable to charge my iPhone?

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.
- This is always the case with Apple. Nothing of quality is worth buying until a few weeks/months after the release of the device as anything prior is just manufacturing based on speculation.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.
- The lightning connector?

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.
- It charges my iDevice. It plays audio through any device. And if I want it to watch TV, you plug in the Digital AV Adapter and an HDMI cable. So what's missing?

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

Don't bother responding. You already burried yourself and there's no getting out.

----------

I start to dislike Apple more and more. Don't get me wrong, I'm a long time Apple user since the day Apple was almost bankrupt where Bill Gates came for the rescue.

As a Music Technology student and graphical designer I bought a 7100 Mac at the time and it was truly a time where Apple started to fight back against the, in their eyes, big corporate business whom made bad devises. Young as I was then I believed Apple was, of course, the opposite of that image. By the time Apple came with really powerful products since they released MacOSX. Also when Apple where able to let Motorola go, as 'the' chipmaker for Apple at the time, and move on using Intel the machines got better and better as did the OSX system of Apple.

Then came the iPod. The "revolutionary" device brought by Apple. At least, that's what Apple like people to believe. Anyway, needless to say that this product was much better then it's rivals. It was not particularly the device itself, the hardware, but also because of the GUI (graphical user interface). Other devises where slow and when having 1000 songs on board you needed to click down 500 times (as example) to reach your desired song while the iPod had this stirring wheel...

To keep a long story short. Apple had, with some right, much success with the iPod and the iPhone made it all come together. Brilliant, can't state otherwise. But ever since 'that' success Apple has slowly turned into the opponent where in resent days Apple considered that opponent as 'the enemy'. And even worse, where Apple had foot on the ground in the expert and professional market, both the design market and more and more in the video market as well they all lost that by making poor products.

To name a few huge mistakes:

- Video
With Final Cut Apple had been able to get trough in the professional marked of editing. For my profession I visit quite a few professional film agencies and Apple was all over the place. With the release of Final Cut X that changed dramatically. All the old projects where useless all in the sudden. And the new software could only do about 5% of what it's previous version could do. With the release of this Final Cut X Apple lost it's foot on ground for the professional market. I don't see Apple products in big editing suits any longer, it's all simply replaced by PC's and Adobe editing and third parties editing software.

The consumer-market, the masses, more important

Apple used to have a stand at the IBC (International Broadcasting Conference) in Amsterdam the Netherlands. For years Apple is no-where to be found. And with good reason. Apple is no match among the professional market that makes high-end computers and software. The Apple Pro, where I'm still working with, machines are highly outdated and a pimped PC computer runs circles around the Mac Pro when it comes to power, performance in any field.

Anyone remember that Apple used to have these commercials about how much 'faster' their computers where compared to the PC? Why do you think they stop walking that road? Simply answer, Apple computers are no match for the high-end PC computers. And quite frankly, in everything, Apple shows it simply doesn't care one bit. It's the masses what's important, the masses want iPad's, iPods, iPhones, all three lines starting with an 'i' but I also simply could have said: gadgets, gadgets, gadgets.

Don't get me wrong, I use the iPhone and the iPad, very happy with those. But I simply don't care if the iPhone will be even 10% lighter or that the new iPad is slightly faster then it's previous model. When I talk computers I talk serious business. I want machines that do serious stuff where I earn my money with. The iPad, iPhone, iPod's are all gadgets, very handy and needed gadgets needless to say, for on the road. But in MY office I want horsepower!

And that's why I start to dislike Apple more and more because they simply don't deliver where in the past they did!

And I'm not even talking about the price tags which are ridiculous funny when you have to pay about 30 euro's for a simple connecter that enables me to put my iPhone 5 in my dekstop iPhone holder with a box attached to it.

I'm telling you folks, all tough Apple does makes brilliant designed products, if they keep heading to walk down this pad they will loose their most important customers, those who payed for Apple products even in times the company was almost bankrupt, simply because they believed that Apple products where simply powerfull and that was Apple's vision as well, to make really powerfull machines.

I hope Apple will keep it's promise to unleash a serious horse when talking about power in beginning of 2013, else I'm forced to flip over to PC machines.

My 2 Cents.

Its funny how you say that. My mid-2010 MacBook Pro (8GB RAM) runs circles around my i7-3770k with 16gb RAM. It's all how applications utilize resources. And that's what Apple does best.

And FCX is getting better. Look at the latest release. Same with Server. They seem to have started from scratch, build a stable initial release and now adding things back. Give it time and everything will be better.

zhenya
Nov 8, 2012, 07:50 AM
Wow, you are a tool. I responded after some of your points. So read below.



Don't bother responding. You already burried yourself and there's no getting out.

The only tool is the person who completely missed the sarcasm in the first place, and then didn't bother to read the thread where the fact that it was sarcasm was half of the content of the thread. ;)

bigcat318
Nov 8, 2012, 09:42 AM
I'm not sure I've ever seen so many people completely miss the obvious sarcasm in a post before.

That whooshing sound is the sarcasm going right over your head.

WHOOOOOSSSHHH

mirekti
Dec 7, 2012, 12:15 PM
I have an external TTVJ DAC/AMP and would like to use it with iPhone5.
Is there any short cable male-male I could use to connect it to my AMP?
Will that work?

zhenya
Dec 7, 2012, 12:59 PM
I have an external TTVJ DAC/AMP and would like to use it with iPhone5.
Is there any short cable male-male I could use to connect it to my AMP?
Will that work?

You'll probably get better answers elsewhere, but with the old iPhones, you'd use a 30pin Line Out Dock cable that uses the dock connection to a 3.5mm male that you connect to your amp. This bypasses the built-in amplifier stage. You can get a simple 3.5mm male to male cable almost anywhere, but other than making your music louder, I wouldn't expect it to improve it in any way.

I don't know of a lightning Line Out Dock cable as of yet.

mirekti
Dec 7, 2012, 01:25 PM
Thanks.
I can try somewhere else, I wouldn't like to use 3.5mm male-male cable.
I'd like to use the DAC from my AMP, but not sure this would work. Oh...

zhenya
Dec 7, 2012, 01:30 PM
Thanks.
I can try somewhere else, I wouldn't like to use 3.5mm male-male cable.
I'd like to use the DAC from my AMP, but not sure this would work. Oh...

You aren't going to use the DAC from your amp without a special dock that can pull the raw digital signal. Something like this http://www.pure.com/products/product.asp?Product=VL-61429 but again, I don't think there is any such device yet for the lightning connection.

mirekti
Dec 7, 2012, 02:15 PM
This sucks cos I have a portable amplifier.:(

mentaluproar
Dec 7, 2012, 02:19 PM
Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.

• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.

Have I summed up the insanity? :)

You are leaving the trolls nothing. They will starve to death if you continue making rational points.

Mago
Feb 21, 2013, 10:02 PM
All that dock does is allow you to connect devices TO the Galaxy Note. It doesn't provide any interface between the device and accessories which is the entire point behind Apple's proprietary connectors. On top of that it's designed for one specific model that will shortly be obsolete.

It's basically a docking station like you'd have for a laptop computer.

Ignorant, or paid deceit.

MicroUSB support the following protocols: MHL (digital Audio/Video HD), ADK (Machine to Machine, for accesory interface, such as controlling a robotic dock, reading enviroment sensors, etc), 1-Wire digital Audio (same used by Apple iDevices).

I Own an note II ( by far the best mobile phone to date), I can connect it to an EXTERNAL USB DAC, and get PROFESSIONAL HI-DEF AUDIOPHILE OUTPUT watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urSVwsoUdSQ

When this will be possible on Ligthning? Answe: NEVER, only possible on Mac, PCs, And Android, maybe later on WP8 (not now).

zhenya
Feb 21, 2013, 10:17 PM
Ignorant, or paid deceit.

MicroUSB support the following protocols: MHL (digital Audio/Video HD), ADK (Machine to Machine, for accesory interface, such as controlling a robotic dock, reading enviroment sensors, etc), 1-Wire digital Audio (same used by Apple iDevices).

I Own an note II ( by far the best mobile phone to date), I can connect it to an EXTERNAL USB DAC, and get PROFESSIONAL HI-DEF AUDIOPHILE OUTPUT watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urSVwsoUdSQ

When this will be possible on Ligthning? Answe: NEVER, only possible on Mac, PCs, And Android, maybe later on WP8 (not now).

You still clearly don't understand the importance of how Apple designed their system. (And the authentication chip has nothing to do with what we are talking about here). MHL is close to what Apple has, but its not the same thing and its far from universal. Digital audio out was possible on the 30-pin connector; as far as I know it should be on Lightning, as its an all-digital cable now.

We still haven't gotten to the fact that switching to Lighting keeps backwards compatibility with the tens of millions of 30-pin accessories in circulation through a simple adapter (switching to micro-USB would have rendered those accessories junk) or the fact that Lightning carries a maximum of 12w for charging vs. 9w for micro-USB.

Where are all these Android accessories if it does the same thing? Android has a bigger market share - and those accessory manufacturers want to sell products to those users too, right?

Nor do you mention the fact that in order to use that MHL port for digital video you need this huge $30 adapter which must Be plugged not just into the phone but ALSO into the charger to function!!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Qi_AcF7KRuU/UAJtUSFgSXI/AAAAAAAAAN8/9uCC9AWRq7o/s1600/Samsung+Galaxy+S3+MHL+HDMI+TV+Connection.jpg