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MacRumors
Nov 9, 2012, 08:33 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/09/virnetx-files-follow-up-patent-lawsuit-targeting-apples-latest-products/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/11/virnetx_logo-150x78.jpgFresh off of a $368 million patent lawsuit victory (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/07/apple-hit-with-368-million-judgment-in-vpn-patent-lawsuit-from-virnetx/) over Apple regarding virtual private networking (VPN) connectivity used in Apple's FaceTime video calling feature, VirnetX has filed a new lawsuit (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/178085441.html) targeting all of Apple's latest iOS devices and Macs, which were not included in the original lawsuit. The new lawsuit was unearthed by Patently Apple (http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/11/apple-sued-for-vpn-on-demand-functionality-in-mountain-lion.html) earlier this week, but VirnetX did not announce it until today.The complaint includes allegations of willful patent infringement regarding four patents owned by VirnetX, U.S. Patent Nos. 6,502,135, 7,418,504, 7,921,211 and 7,490,151. In its complaint, VirnetX seeks both damages and injunctive relief. The accused products include the iPhone 5, iPod Touch 5th Generation, iPad 4th Generation, iPad mini, and the latest Macintosh computers. Due to their release dates, these products were not included in the previous lawsuit that concluded with a Jury verdict on November 6, 2012.Apple is expected to appeal the ruling in the original case, and will of course fight the inclusion of its new products in a similar judgment.

Article Link: VirnetX Files Follow-Up Patent Lawsuit Targeting Apple's Latest Products (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/09/virnetx-files-follow-up-patent-lawsuit-targeting-apples-latest-products/)



ollyb
Nov 9, 2012, 08:40 AM
*yawn*

aliensporebomb
Nov 9, 2012, 08:45 AM
Another patent troll lawsuit?

Yvan256
Nov 9, 2012, 08:58 AM
Another patent troll lawsuit?

From what I've read, VirnetX is not a patent troll but they do seem to have patents that should not have been granted in the first place.

Software patents are a real mess, to say the least.

Stella
Nov 9, 2012, 08:59 AM
VirnetX need to protect their IP, just like Apple would and does.
;)

Regardless of Apple, winning or losing, software patents suckass.

WiiDSmoker
Nov 9, 2012, 09:01 AM
Good for them. They invented the technology and won a patent for it. And shoul be able to protect it.



Oh that's right. It's against Apple so it's bad now right?

thedeejay
Nov 9, 2012, 09:22 AM
Looks like that 1B from Samsung came in handy LOL :D

johncrab
Nov 9, 2012, 09:52 AM
The group of SAIC employees that formed this "company" is just looking for a big payout by baiting Apple to buy them out in order to own this technology. It may work and it is a pretty bold move, too.

SAIC has been shedding employees and entire departments this year as money from the No Such Agency's wild spending spree for eavesdropping tech has been dialed back. I am sure these are some of those caught in that downsizing and why not look to capitalize in a big way on this?

----------

Good for them. They invented the technology and won a patent for it. And shoul be able to protect it.



Oh that's right. It's against Apple so it's bad now right?


Just a fine point. Patents are not "won" as in a competition. They are granted based on the uniqueness of a product or procedure.

samcraig
Nov 9, 2012, 10:25 AM
Looks like that 1B from Samsung came in handy LOL :D

How so? Apple hasn't gotten a dime of it yet. And they might not ever get a dime. Too early to tell.

That being said - Apple should be "ok."

And for those criticizing VirnetX for going after Apple (again) - it's no different than Apple going after other companies (i.e. Samsung) with additional lawsuits of new(er) devices

Wild-Bill
Nov 9, 2012, 11:06 AM
By "following up" their lawsuit and adding EVERY new Apple product that has come out since filing, they are definitely trolling.
According to the lawsuit, FaceTime is the "offending" technology, not the hardware. One judgement on the software is sufficient. By going after all of Apple's new products, they are most certainly trolling.

This is nothing more than a couple of out-of-work SAIC employees hoping to never have to work again.

samcraig
Nov 9, 2012, 11:29 AM
By "following up" their lawsuit and adding EVERY new Apple product that has come out since filing, they are definitely trolling.
According to the lawsuit, FaceTime is the "offending" technology, not the hardware. One judgement on the software is sufficient. By going after all of Apple's new products, they are most certainly trolling.

This is nothing more than a couple of out-of-work SAIC employees hoping to never have to work again.

So I assume you believe that Apple shouldn't pursue anything with Samsung based on their implementation of Android then since they've already sued once. Is that right?

thedeejay
Nov 9, 2012, 11:31 AM
How so? Apple hasn't gotten a dime of it yet. And they might not ever get a dime. Too early to tell.

That being said - Apple should be "ok."

And for those criticizing VirnetX for going after Apple (again) - it's no different than Apple going after other companies (i.e. Samsung) with additional lawsuits of new(er) devices

Ah, was Samsung not required to pay 1B to Apple? Or is that still on-going? I thought the verdict had been reached.

samcraig
Nov 9, 2012, 11:38 AM
Ah, was Samsung not required to pay 1B to Apple? Or is that still on-going? I thought the verdict had been reached.

It's going through appeals. Not sure what you're asking though. My point was that if Apple can keep going after Samsung's newest models for the same thing and they aren't patent trolls (being called that) then VirnetX shouldn't be called a patent troll.

craznar
Nov 9, 2012, 12:17 PM
Shakespeare said it best:

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"

This whole legal system is costing humanity progress and money off the deep end.

Reserve patents for inventions - not discoveries, shapes, colours or algorithms.

trunten
Nov 9, 2012, 01:43 PM
Good for them. They invented the technology and won a patent for it. And shoul be able to protect it.



Oh that's right. It's against Apple so it's bad now right?

According to 9to5mac they are a patent holding company. does somebody know whether is any truth in that?

Wild-Bill
Nov 9, 2012, 02:02 PM
So I assume you believe that Apple shouldn't pursue anything with Samsung based on their implementation of Android then since they've already sued once. Is that right?

I believe one lawsuit is sufficient for the software.

Samsung's hardware is another matter. They blatantly copied the iPhone.

iRCL
Nov 9, 2012, 02:17 PM
The group of SAIC employees that formed this "company" is just looking for a big payout by baiting Apple to buy them out in order to own this technology. It may work and it is a pretty bold move, too.

SAIC has been shedding employees and entire departments this year as money from the No Such Agency's wild spending spree for eavesdropping tech has been dialed back. I am sure these are some of those caught in that downsizing and why not look to capitalize in a big way on this?

----------




Just a fine point. Patents are not "won" as in a competition. They are granted based on the uniqueness of a product or procedure.

I never upvote, but I upvoted you. And I find it sad that nobody else did, but upvoted totally thoughtless posts

This nailed it and was well written and insightful about SAIC's situation as well

benspratling
Nov 9, 2012, 02:23 PM
Reserve patents for inventions - not discoveries, shapes, colours or algorithms.

LOL! because what? nobody ever did any work to design algorithms? It doesn't take years of research? design? analysis? optimization? People don't build their entire careers on it?

craznar
Nov 9, 2012, 02:46 PM
LOL! because what? nobody ever did any work to design algorithms? It doesn't take years of research? design? analysis? optimization? People don't build their entire careers on it?

No - because algorithms are not novel, 40 people could simultaneously solve the same problem the same way and giving 1 of them permission to sue the other 39 is just plain stupid.

It also means that it is impossible for anyone to actually write software without being a multi-millionaire.

I mean - how on earth can I possibly determine if my app is legal or not, if people might have patented some obvious way of doing something ?

raweden
Nov 9, 2012, 04:13 PM
No - because algorithms are not novel, 40 people could simultaneously solve the same problem the same way and giving 1 of them permission to sue the other 39 is just plain stupid.

It also means that it is impossible for anyone to actually write software without being a multi-millionaire.

I mean - how on earth can I possibly determine if my app is legal or not, if people might have patented some obvious way of doing something ?

True story! You would need to employ a whole staff to determine the risk of patent infringement, or you could hope that your app never reaches any mainstream usage so the patent holders won't notice that you have infringement their patent.

kd5jos
Nov 9, 2012, 06:18 PM
Shakespeare said it best:

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"

This whole legal system is costing humanity progress and money off the deep end.

Reserve patents for inventions - not discoveries, shapes, colours or algorithms.

Yeah, that was said by some characters that wanted to overthrow a government. They knew that Lawyers understood the legal system, and by offing them first, no one would know if what was being done by the characters was legal.

So you're saying get rid of the whole legal system so we have nothing to use? I guess we could just duel.

clibinarius
Nov 9, 2012, 10:38 PM
By "following up" their lawsuit and adding EVERY new Apple product that has come out since filing, they are definitely trolling.
According to the lawsuit, FaceTime is the "offending" technology, not the hardware. One judgement on the software is sufficient. By going after all of Apple's new products, they are most certainly trolling.

This is nothing more than a couple of out-of-work SAIC employees hoping to never have to work again.

Yeah, it is trolling. Sort of like how one company keeps going after all of Samsung's products, even after a suit done. Which company would do that? Hmm, I dunno. :apple:

macs4nw
Nov 10, 2012, 05:11 AM
Looks like that 1B from Samsung came in handy LOL :D

Not so fast; They haven't received any money yet, and probably won't for quite a while yet, if ever, because it's under appeal. Secondly, that whole judgement against SAMSUNG may be set aside, as there are now questions about the jury foreman's disclosures or rather lack thereof, during the jury selection process. http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/09/judge-will-consider-questions-on-jury-foreman-in-samsung-v-apple-trial/

JAT
Nov 10, 2012, 11:36 AM
Yeah, it is trolling. Sort of like how one company keeps going after all of Samsung's products, even after a suit done. Which company would do that? Hmm, I dunno. :apple:

Patent trolling is generally understood to be a company that owns patents and does nothing with them except collect fees or file lawsuits. Apple is actually making iPhones, so they are not "trolling" when they defend related patents. They may still be annoying with the number of lawsuits, so call it something else.

IDK if VirnetX is trolling or defending IP they actually use.

MacDav
Nov 10, 2012, 04:47 PM
Shakespeare said it best:

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"

This whole legal system is costing humanity progress and money off the deep end.

Reserve patents for inventions - not discoveries, shapes, colours or algorithms.

What do you call it when you chain weights on the ankles of 10 lawyers and throw them into the ocean?.....Answer....A good start. :)
PS... There are some decent hard working Lawyers out there. Sorry, I'm not talking about you.

ConCat
Nov 10, 2012, 07:15 PM
Thank you for putting this on the iOS blog, and not the front page. Please do this with all future legal crap.

thedeejay
Nov 10, 2012, 07:43 PM
Not so fast; They haven't received any money yet, and probably won't for quite a while yet, if ever, because it's under appeal. Secondly, that whole judgement against SAMSUNG may be set aside, as there are now questions about the jury foreman's disclosures or rather lack thereof, during the jury selection process. http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/09/judge-will-consider-questions-on-jury-foreman-in-samsung-v-apple-trial/

Ah man. I just read that today. Love Apple and all but dislike all these patent battles. I understand I guess. Gotta protect what's yours but imagine how much time and money could be saved :o

clibinarius
Nov 11, 2012, 02:38 AM
Patent trolling is generally understood to be a company that owns patents and does nothing with them except collect fees or file lawsuits. Apple is actually making iPhones, so they are not "trolling" when they defend related patents. They may still be annoying with the number of lawsuits, so call it something else.

IDK if VirnetX is trolling or defending IP they actually use.

You mean like all those Apple products in products they never seem to use, like NFC? Luckily they're not suing on those. Yet.

UpOver
Nov 11, 2012, 03:18 AM
No - because algorithms are not novel, 40 people could simultaneously solve the same problem the same way and giving 1 of them permission to sue the other 39 is just plain stupid.

It also means that it is impossible for anyone to actually write software without being a multi-millionaire.

I mean - how on earth can I possibly determine if my app is legal or not, if people might have patented some obvious way of doing something ?

This. Software patents should be such that everyone can innovate and benefit rather than just a rich few. Hopefully legislation will catch up with the modern context sooner rather than later.

JAT
Nov 12, 2012, 12:13 AM
You mean like all those Apple products in products they never seem to use, like NFC? Luckily they're not suing on those. Yet.

Please explain how NOT suing people makes you a patent troll. There should be a bigger :rolleyes:

derek4484
Nov 12, 2012, 09:23 AM
All this suing of each other doesnt hurt the companies, it only hurts the consumers who have to pay for it all with much higher end prices on goods.

clibinarius
Nov 12, 2012, 09:27 AM
Please explain how NOT suing people makes you a patent troll. There should be a bigger :rolleyes:

Honestly, with Apple's behavior, they'll sue. Just wait for it. They sue over everything-including companies existing for years like ifone.

Gasu E.
Nov 12, 2012, 09:37 AM
Yeah, that was said by some characters that wanted to overthrow a government. They knew that Lawyers understood the legal system, and by offing them first, no one would know if what was being done by the characters was legal.

So you're saying get rid of the whole legal system so we have nothing to use? I guess we could just duel.

The opposite of "lawyers" isn't "efficiency". The opposite of "lawyers" is "tyrants". Before we had a legal system (and lawyers), we had kings who did whatever they wanted. Now those who want to get rid of the lawyers are either would-be kings; or those whose judgement has been dulled by the propaganda campaigns of would-be kings.

roadbloc
Nov 12, 2012, 09:58 AM
Apple has created a sue-happy industry. Not sure if it is a good thing or not, but it is damn tedious.

BeardedOrc
Nov 12, 2012, 06:33 PM
Patent trolling is generally understood to be a company that owns patents and does nothing with them except collect fees or file lawsuits. Apple is actually making iPhones, so they are not "trolling" when they defend related patents. They may still be annoying with the number of lawsuits, so call it something else.

IDK if VirnetX is trolling or defending IP they actually use.

I have a kids bike in my shed that I haven't used for 8 years. So basically, anybody can just take it as I have not been using it. What logic?

JAT
Nov 13, 2012, 11:44 AM
I have a kids bike in my shed that I haven't used for 8 years. So basically, anybody can just take it as I have not been using it. What logic?
No idea what you mean. Did you quote the right post?

LorenK
Nov 14, 2012, 02:21 PM
I haven't seen any lawyers posting on this, but, clearly, a number of posters don't understand the differences between patent, trademark and copyright. The fact of IP litigation between Apple and various other software and hardware companies is the result of the complexity of the IP rights being claimed and a policy decision by the PTO to issue patents without the more severe review that occurred prior to the technology explosion caused by computers. If you don't know, people who work for the PTO are overworked and unpaid (like the rest of us) and have to follow the decisions of their bosses who expect results without paying for them. Hence, people get to say bad things about lawyers when there is more than enough blame to go around.