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michaeljohn
Nov 9, 2012, 01:23 PM
As an Android user for the past 5 years, this has really gone from bad to worse to pathetic now. The final straw that led me to get an iPhone 5 was the JB debacle with the S3 here in the US. For those who dont know, Sprint released the JB update for its Galaxy S3 while those of us with AT&t, Verizon and T Mobile versions got the shaft and have been told sometime in 2013. Seriously, WTF? That would be like Sprint iPhone users getting to update to iOS 6 while AT&T and Verizon customers were told they had to wait a good 3-4 months to update. Pathetic.

I can understand when the international versions get an update and we have to wait longer in the US because we have models with different hardware, but the Sprint version of the S3 is identical to the versions on the other carriers! Where is the explanation from Google or Samsung on why this has happened? Or is it just the fact that the other carriers need more time to add their BS bloatware to the S3, so their customers get left in the dark?

Android is a great OS completely destroyed by things like this that continue to upset its customers and make them choose other options. I now have an iphone 5 with no intentions on ever going back until something is done. The short answer is to buy the Nexus but as a Verizon customer, I can't and I am not interested in the Nexus phone anyways. Shame.



sarcosis
Nov 9, 2012, 01:31 PM
As an Android user for the past 5 years, this has really gone from bad to worse to pathetic now. The final straw that led me to get an iPhone 5 was the JB debacle with the S3 here in the US. For those who dont know, Sprint released the JB update for its Galaxy S3 while those of us with AT&t, Verizon and T Mobile versions got the shaft and have been told sometime in 2013. Seriously, WTF? That would be like Sprint iPhone users getting to update to iOS 6 while AT&T and Verizon customers were told they had to wait a good 3-4 months to update. Pathetic.

I can understand when the international versions get an update and we have to wait longer in the US because we have models with different hardware, but the Sprint version of the S3 is identical to the versions on the other carriers! Where is the explanation from Google or Samsung on why this has happened? Or is it just the fact that the other carriers need more time to add their BS bloatware to the S3, so their customers get left in the dark?

Android is a great OS completely destroyed by things like this that continue to upset its customers and make them choose other options. I now have an iphone 5 with no intentions on ever going back until something is done. The short answer is to buy the Nexus but as a Verizon customer, I can't and I am not interested in the Nexus phone anyways. Shame.

Don't blame Google or Samsung for this one. Samsung took their time with the actual update, but if Sprint got, the S4 variant for NA should be good to go for the most part. If you want to blame someone, blame the carriers. Once the final build is done, the carriers test it and they get to figure out when it get's released. It's part of Samsung's contract with the carriers that the carriers get to give the ok.

Apple has the clout to just say whatever, we will do what we want since people want the iPhone. People might want the S3, but Samsung has previously had contracts in place so they have to fulfill their obligations per those contracts. Here's to hoping that Samsung has enough clout to do what Apple does.

TheHateMachine
Nov 9, 2012, 01:34 PM
As an Android user for the past 5 years, this has really gone from bad to worse to pathetic now. The final straw that led me to get an iPhone 5 was the JB debacle with the S3 here in the US. For those who dont know, Sprint released the JB update for its Galaxy S3 while those of us with AT&t, Verizon and T Mobile versions got the shaft and have been told sometime in 2013. Seriously, WTF? That would be like Sprint iPhone users getting to update to iOS 6 while AT&T and Verizon customers were told they had to wait a good 3-4 months to update. Pathetic.

I can understand when the international versions get an update and we have to wait longer in the US because we have models with different hardware, but the Sprint version of the S3 is identical to the versions on the other carriers! Where is the explanation from Google or Samsung on why this has happened? Or is it just the fact that the other carriers need more time to add their BS bloatware to the S3, so their customers get left in the dark?

Android is a great OS completely destroyed by things like this that continue to upset its customers and make them choose other options. I now have an iphone 5 with no intentions on ever going back until something is done. The short answer is to buy the Nexus but as a Verizon customer, I can't and I am not interested in the Nexus phone anyways. Shame.

Yea brother, this is all the carrier's fault. Android users get **** on because of carriers.

ChazUK
Nov 9, 2012, 01:36 PM
I feel really sympathetic for the way carriers screw you over in the U.S.

The way it seems is a Sprint GSIII is different to an AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile GSIII as each carrier want to add their own crapware/customisations to each firmware release which causes issues like you've mentioned above.

The GSM/CDMA situation doesn't help things with the same handsets sometimes having different internals thanks to the different radios needed to connect to each network.

Over here in the UK you can choose to buy a branded phone from one of the big four networks (EE, O2, Vodafone, Three) which will suffer the same wait time as they add crap to the firmware but as all of our networks use the same GSM standards, you also have the ability to buy a vanilla handset which is updated direct from HTC/Samsung/Nokia/LG/Whoever. Companies like CarphoneWarehouse (http://www.carphonewarehouse.com) only stock the unlocked, sim free phones for contract handsets so you normaly get all the updates, direct from the manufacturer without any carrier interference (as a matter of fact, the only locked contract phones on offer from CPW are iPhones over here AFAIK)

I really had hopes for Windows Phone in respect of updates from carriers but even that isn't immune from the BS from the carriers (http://www.wpcentral.com/att-sitting-samsung-tango-updates-windows-phone-heres-how-get-now).

I agree with you on the Galaxy Nexus on Verizon (and sprint). Both of those have been subjected to delayed updates thanks in part to the carriers.

Enjoy your iPhone 5 going forward. I really do admire Apple's ability to say FU to the carriers worldwide when it comes to distributing and authorising updates. The only phone I know of from the Android camp like that has been the GSM Nexus handsets and is why I'll be choosing the Nexus 4 over any other whizbang android handset in future.

Great post BTW.

hyteckit
Nov 9, 2012, 01:42 PM
Don't think this is considered fragmentation.

More like Android is just as a closed system as iOS to consumers.

Android provides a false sense of being an "open" system.

It's "open" to carriers and handset makers. However, it's really "closed" to consumers. You can't just take the latest Android OS and install it on your Android phone without some sort of hack.

You are stuck in the close system of your handset maker and carrier.

ChazUK
Nov 9, 2012, 01:47 PM
Don't think this is considered fragmentation.

More like Android is just as a closed system as iOS to consumers.

Android provides a false sense of being an "open" system.

It's "open" to carriers and handset makers. However, it's really "closed" to consumers. You can't just take the latest Android OS and install it on your Android phone without some sort of hack.

You are stuck in the close system of your handset maker and carrier.

Not if you own a GSM Nexus device.

The situation also vastly improves when you buy an unlocked device direct from a manufacturer (you only deal with the manufacturer pushing out updates).

The open side of it does mean that carriers get to take the piss though there is no doubt.

onthecouchagain
Nov 9, 2012, 01:49 PM
The iPhone isn't fragmented? Please, tell me more.

http://www.dtvusaforum.com/blogs/orrymain/attachments/1891d1344872169-director-mel-stuarts-death-brings-memories-willy-wonka-pure-imagination-willy_wonka.jpg


PS. I hate what the carriers do too. That's why there's the Nexus line. If you can't compromise your carrier, then welcome to life. Sometimes it's tough.

PPS. If people hate carriers for what they do, there should be nothing but support for the Nexus line and what Google is trying to do (whether they're succeeding or will succeed or not, different story!).

lsvtecjohn3
Nov 9, 2012, 02:27 PM
The iPhone isn't fragmented? Please, tell me more.

Image (http://www.dtvusaforum.com/blogs/orrymain/attachments/1891d1344872169-director-mel-stuarts-death-brings-memories-willy-wonka-pure-imagination-willy_wonka.jpg)


PS. I hate what the carriers do too. That's why there's the Nexus line. If you can't compromise your carrier, then welcome to life. Sometimes it's tough.

PPS. If people hate carriers for what they do, there should be nothing but support for the Nexus line and what Google is trying to do (whether they're succeeding or will succeed or not, different story!).

Not true for the Verizon Nexus. People had to wait months before they were able to upgrade to JB.

smellysox8
Nov 9, 2012, 02:33 PM
Rom

THE JUICEMAN
Nov 9, 2012, 02:44 PM
Most of the blame should go to the carriers in my opinion. They have to test and certify the update on their network. It takes time and money. Also, the popularity of the phones makes a big difference. Even though clearly the S3 is super popular. Shame on the carriers not android.

Also, although you can't go wrong with the iPhone 5 because its a great phone you didn't have to leave android to solve this problem. You said you liked android. You could get a unlocked nexus and say screw the carrier system all together.

kdarling
Nov 9, 2012, 03:05 PM
Not true for the Verizon Nexus. People had to wait months before they were able to upgrade to JB.

Yep, the CDMA versions for Sprint and Verizon took an extra 9-10 weeks after GSM versions got JB.

Not very much time in the overall scheme of things, but still counts as a wait.

I didn't mind it too much. Used to the extra testing that they do.

onthecouchagain
Nov 9, 2012, 03:52 PM
Yeah, the VZ Nexus was a travesty.

michaeljohn
Nov 9, 2012, 04:19 PM
Also, although you can't go wrong with the iPhone 5 because its a great phone you didn't have to leave android to solve this problem. You said you liked android. You could get a unlocked nexus and say screw the carrier system all together.

I am on Verizon and would never buy a phone without LTE again anyways.

sixteen12
Nov 9, 2012, 04:58 PM
I know that feeling. In my opinion you either buy iPhone or Nexus. The software updates and bug fixes alone make up for any potential shortcomings they might have.

The flagship phones are awesome until they end up being 2-3 software iterations behind and are lacking what has become fairly stock on new phones.

zbarvian
Nov 9, 2012, 05:36 PM
What do carriers do when they are "approving" these updates? How could they possibly take so much time ensuring that their bloatware runs well on the new firmware?

Android is super fragmented by nature, though. If you want the flood of Android devices then don't expect them all to run the latest Android offering or play well with apps/games. Temple Run developers (I believe) were quoted as saying that they receive more complaints from incompatibility than anything else, and they support like 700 devices...

dalbir4444
Nov 9, 2012, 07:41 PM
As an Android user for the past 5 years, this has really gone from bad to worse to pathetic now. The final straw that led me to get an iPhone 5 was the JB debacle with the S3 here in the US. For those who dont know, Sprint released the JB update for its Galaxy S3 while those of us with AT&t, Verizon and T Mobile versions got the shaft and have been told sometime in 2013. Seriously, WTF? That would be like Sprint iPhone users getting to update to iOS 6 while AT&T and Verizon customers were told they had to wait a good 3-4 months to update. Pathetic.

I can understand when the international versions get an update and we have to wait longer in the US because we have models with different hardware, but the Sprint version of the S3 is identical to the versions on the other carriers! Where is the explanation from Google or Samsung on why this has happened? Or is it just the fact that the other carriers need more time to add their BS bloatware to the S3, so their customers get left in the dark?

Android is a great OS completely destroyed by things like this that continue to upset its customers and make them choose other options. I now have an iphone 5 with no intentions on ever going back until something is done. The short answer is to buy the Nexus but as a Verizon customer, I can't and I am not interested in the Nexus phone anyways. Shame.

Get the Nexus phones or root and flash. The issues with Android phones from carriers not being updated right away is well known so I'm not sure why you were so surprised.

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Don't think this is considered fragmentation.

More like Android is just as a closed system as iOS to consumers.

Android provides a false sense of being an "open" system.

It's "open" to carriers and handset makers. However, it's really "closed" to consumers. You can't just take the latest Android OS and install it on your Android phone without some sort of hack.

You are stuck in the close system of your handset maker and carrier.

The "open" refers to the fact that it's open source, so it's certainly not a "closed" OS. You can install the latest OS by rooting and flashing a new ROM. Rooting is not a hack. It is equivalent to having Administrator privileges on Windows.

hyteckit
Nov 9, 2012, 07:48 PM
The "open" refers to the fact that it's open source, so it's certainly not a "closed" OS. You can install the latest OS by rooting and flashing a new ROM. Rooting is not a hack. It is equivalent to having Administrator privileges on Windows.

I understand that part. It's open to handset makers, carriers, and developers.

Closed to consumers for the most part.

dalbir4444
Nov 9, 2012, 07:57 PM
I understand that part. It's open to handset makers, carriers, and developers.

Closed to consumers for the most part.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say open and closed. What exactly is closed to the consumers?

hyteckit
Nov 9, 2012, 08:09 PM
I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say open and closed. What exactly is closed to the consumers?

Because I can't just download Android OS and install it on my Android device without some sort of hack.

Have to wait for the carrier and handset makers to provide me with their latest Android OS. The carriers and handset makers have the control; I don't.

Android the most closed open source project according to extremetech.

http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/108911-is-android-the-most-closed-open-source-project

dalbir4444
Nov 9, 2012, 08:49 PM
Because I can't just download Android OS and install it on my Android device without some sort of hack.

Have to wait for the carrier and handset makers to provide me with their latest Android OS. The carriers and handset makers have the control; I don't.

Android the most closed open source project according to extremetech.

http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/108911-is-android-the-most-closed-open-source-project

Rooting a phone is hardly hacking it. That word gets thrown around way too much. For some devices, there is even a one-click solution to rooting. You can't possibly consider that hacking. After rooting, you are in control, not the carriers.

You originally said that Android is just as closed as iOS for consumers, but that is simply not the case. Firstly, when you say open, are you talking about it being open source or allowing the user to customize their phone in any way possible.

If you're referring to open source, Android may be the most closed source, but a lot more of it's source code is open as opposed to iOS. If you need to browse Android's source code, then no problem: go here (http://source.android.com/) or here (http://grepcode.com/project/repository.grepcode.com/java/ext/com.google.android/android/). Can't say that about iOS. Also, just take a look at what Amazon has done with Android, and at no cost.

If you referring to the latter, Android is known to the most customizable mobile OS. It has the largest modding community for mobile phones.

Edit: Need confirmation? Head on down to XDA.

Sincci
Nov 9, 2012, 08:56 PM
With the international Galaxy S and Note devices you can always flash the latest ROM for your phone even if your carrier hasn't approved it yet and without even voiding your warranty. You'll just need an app called Odin for your PC (or a Mac via Bootcamp) and the latest firmware from xda (completely stock, unrooted).

Tarzanman
Nov 9, 2012, 08:59 PM
Android is a great OS completely destroyed by things like this that continue to upset its customers and make them choose other options. I now have an iphone 5 with no intentions on ever going back until something is done. The short answer is to buy the Nexus but as a Verizon customer, I can't and I am not interested in the Nexus phone anyways. Shame.

If manufacturer-mandated updates are what you are looking for then stick with an iPhone. The android business model is what has led to its huge variety in terms of hardware.

Yes, carriers carry some of the blame, but when have carriers *not* $#%$'ed up the phones they sell? AT&T has blocked facetime over cellular for how long? Verizon blocked unlocked iphones from AT&T for what reason? The rest of the blame lay with the fact that niether google nor samsung, nor anyone who makes a dozen different varieties of android phones can update them all within a week of an android OS update.

Well, they could... but their customer support lines would then be flooded with people complaining about all the bugs they missed.

Android gives you a choice. If you want quick updates as soon as google releases them, either get an HSPA Nexus or root your phone and run a ROM.

If you want flavored ports of android with manufacturer extras, then you can go with a carrier branded phone.

Otherwise, stick with the manufacturer that only really has 2 or 3 different models to worry about updating (Apple)

Elit3
Nov 9, 2012, 10:00 PM
As an Android user for the past 5 years, this has really gone from bad to worse to pathetic now. The final straw that led me to get an iPhone 5 was the JB debacle with the S3 here in the US. For those who dont know, Sprint released the JB update for its Galaxy S3 while those of us with AT&t, Verizon and T Mobile versions got the shaft and have been told sometime in 2013. Seriously, WTF? That would be like Sprint iPhone users getting to update to iOS 6 while AT&T and Verizon customers were told they had to wait a good 3-4 months to update. Pathetic.

I can understand when the international versions get an update and we have to wait longer in the US because we have models with different hardware, but the Sprint version of the S3 is identical to the versions on the other carriers! Where is the explanation from Google or Samsung on why this has happened? Or is it just the fact that the other carriers need more time to add their BS bloatware to the S3, so their customers get left in the dark?

Android is a great OS completely destroyed by things like this that continue to upset its customers and make them choose other options. I now have an iphone 5 with no intentions on ever going back until something is done. The short answer is to buy the Nexus but as a Verizon customer, I can't and I am not interested in the Nexus phone anyways. Shame.

Get a nexus. Let me explain android to you. It is like having an iPhone (androids nexus), which is always updated, but then because android is open source other companies make their spin, with slow updates etc, so you buy the Nexus range, always updated, no fragmentation. And why don't you want a nexus, buy the Nexus 4, it is cheap and unlocked (there will be no locked versions), chuck your verizon sim in and done, problem solved.

onthecouchagain
Nov 9, 2012, 10:39 PM
Seriously, if anyone really hates carriers delaying updates to devices, you should be in full support of the Nexus 4 and what Google is trying to do.

But this anti-Google and anti-Android spirit fueled by Apple are blinding some, to the point where even if they aren't getting the Nexus 4, they'll sh** on it every chance they get.

All the while cursing the carriers for causing precisely the problems they dislike about Android.

michaeljohn
Nov 10, 2012, 12:11 AM
Good replies but its not as simple as "get a Nexus" for those of us on Verizon and Sprint. The Nexus 4 wont even be made for our carriers and the previous CDMA Nexus phones are garbage. Apple can figure out how to make a great phone across all countries and with support for CDMA and LTE, why cant Google?

sarcosis
Nov 10, 2012, 12:42 AM
Good replies but its not as simple as "get a Nexus" for those of us on Verizon and Sprint. The Nexus 4 wont even be made for our carriers and the previous CDMA Nexus phones are garbage. Apple can figure out how to make a great phone across all countries and with support for CDMA and LTE, why cant Google?

It's because Apple has a huge amount of influence over everyone due to the amount of product they move. Apple is in the position to say take it or leave it. Samsung isn't yet, but i suspect that's more in an effort to please people than lack of power. Google with it's Nexus program said F it with carriers which is why you won't see a CDMA Nexus for a while. Is it possible they might make one, perhaps. What we need is LG to say screw skins and just make stock Android outside of the Nexus program. There isn't anything that says hey, we need you to throw a skin on it. They do it for reasons that make me go why?

hyteckit
Nov 10, 2012, 01:30 AM
Rooting a phone is hardly hacking it. That word gets thrown around way too much. For some devices, there is even a one-click solution to rooting. You can't possibly consider that hacking. After rooting, you are in control, not the carriers.

Who created those one-click solutions? Hackers.

Rooting is a one-click solution.
Jailbreaking is also a one-click solution.
Installing MacOS on my PC is also a one-click solution.
Hacking someone's computer is also a one-click solution.
Installing custom ROM on the PS3 is a one-click solution.

Just because it's easy doesn't mean it isn't a hack.

Doing something that the device isn't meant to is a hack regardless of how easy or hard it is.

Oletros
Nov 10, 2012, 01:56 AM
Android the most closed open source project according to extremetech.

http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/108911-is-android-the-most-closed-open-source-project

What a bunch of crap.

And at least you have to read your own links, extremetech doesn't say that is the most closed open source project, the contrary, it says that VisionMobile study falls apart.

----------

I understand that part. It's open to handset makers, carriers, and developers.

Closed to consumers for the most part.

And this is totally false, you have to learn first what Open Source means.

hyteckit
Nov 10, 2012, 02:43 AM
What a bunch of crap.

And at least you have to read your own links, extremetech doesn't say that is the most closed open source project, the contrary, it says that VisionMobile study falls apart.


I initially posted the info graphic, but it was too large, so i posted the link to the article containing the infographic. If you want to read about "openness", go here:

http://www.visionmobile.com/blog/2011/07/the-open-governance-index-measuring-openness-from-android-to-webkit/

http://www.visionmobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/OGI.png


http://www.visionmobile.com/blog/2011/07/the-open-governance-index-measuring-openness-from-android-to-webkit/

----------



And this is totally false, you have to learn first what Open Source means.

I know what open source means. I been working with open source software for over 15 years.

Google needs to learn what Open Source means.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/24/google_will_not_open_source_android_honeycomb_on_release_of_first_devices/

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/09/google-blocked-acers-rival-phone-to-prevent-android-fragmentation/

http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobile-technology/proof-android-not-open-source-and-why-thats-good-169663


By the way, where's the source code for Android 4.2?

Oletros
Nov 10, 2012, 03:06 AM
I initially posted the info graphic, but it was too large, so i posted the link to the article containing the infographic. If you want to read about "openness", go here:

http://www.visionmobile.com/blog/2011/07/the-open-governance-index-measuring-openness-from-android-to-webkit/

Image (http://www.visionmobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/OGI.png)


And this is what your "techextreme" link says it falls apart.

I know what open source means. I been working with open source software for over 15 years.

You try hard to show that you don't know about it, that or you're trolling


Google needs to learn what Open Source means.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/24/google_will_not_open_source_android_honeycomb_on_release_of_first_devices/

And they opened later complying with the license

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/09/google-blocked-acers-rival-phone-to-prevent-android-fragmentation/

This link has nothing to do with Androd being open source. If you don't know what it is about, you can ask.

http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobile-technology/proof-android-not-open-source-and-why-thats-good-169663

This link has nothing to do with Android being Open Source. First, it doesn't say Android source code anywhere in the filing, it says higly PROPRIETARY source code. And you know, Google Apps are not open source and they are not part of Android.

http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/60/34/003783/google-highly-confidential-source-code.png

By the way, where's the source code for Android 4.2?

By the way, has been Android 4.2 released? You seem to still confuse open source with open development, and they have nothing to do.

The fact is that Android is Open Source, you can try to deny it.

cynics
Nov 10, 2012, 03:27 AM
Good replies but its not as simple as "get a Nexus" for those of us on Verizon and Sprint. The Nexus 4 wont even be made for our carriers and the previous CDMA Nexus phones are garbage. Apple can figure out how to make a great phone across all countries and with support for CDMA and LTE, why cant Google?

Nexus 4 is an unlocked Carrier free phone. So show me the "great" unlocked/carrier free CDMA iPhone 5....hint no such phone exist. I don't think you can get an unlocked iPhone 5 at all yet.

And the iPhone 5 LTE isn't supported in all countries now is it? You are setting the bar above Apples reach and wondering why Google isn't hurdling it.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

Unless you think that's every country on the planet with LTE another hint, there is more then the USA. Technically the N4 supports more bands then any single iPhone.

dalbir4444
Nov 10, 2012, 07:21 AM
Who created those one-click solutions? Hackers.

Rooting is a one-click solution.
Jailbreaking is also a one-click solution.
Installing MacOS on my PC is also a one-click solution.
Hacking someone's computer is also a one-click solution.
Installing custom ROM on the PS3 is a one-click solution.

Just because it's easy doesn't mean it isn't a hack.

Doing something that the device isn't meant to is a hack regardless of how easy or hard it is.

Opening a application on your computer is also a one-click solution. Do you also consider that a hack? My point was that rooting your phone is a very simple process, so it's worthy of calling it hacking your device. Like I said before, rooting is equivalent to gaining administrative privileges on Windows. By default, you don't have these privileges on most Android phones. If you want them, you have follow a process to root.

But let's say that you don't want to root because carriers are anal about it and will void your warranty. Well, an unrooted Android phone is still much more customizable than a jailbroken iPhone. You are only focusing on one aspect of this openness, which is installing a new OS. But there are many other aspects to it.

All I'm saying is that if you want complete control of your device, then you have to root it. On a jailbroken iPhone, you still don't have complete control of it.

----------

I initially posted the info graphic, but it was too large, so i posted the link to the article containing the infographic. If you want to read about "openness", go here:

http://www.visionmobile.com/blog/2011/07/the-open-governance-index-measuring-openness-from-android-to-webkit/

Image (http://www.visionmobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/OGI.png)



I know what open source means. I been working with open source software for over 15 years.

Google needs to learn what Open Source means.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/24/google_will_not_open_source_android_honeycomb_on_release_of_first_devices/

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/09/google-blocked-acers-rival-phone-to-prevent-android-fragmentation/

http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobile-technology/proof-android-not-open-source-and-why-thats-good-169663


By the way, where's the source code for Android 4.2?

Why don't you post iOS's openness? Why are you comparing Android to Linux, Meego, etc.? Isn't this discussion about Android vs iOS?

michaeljohn
Nov 10, 2012, 10:33 AM
Nexus 4 is an unlocked Carrier free phone. So show me the "great" unlocked/carrier free CDMA iPhone 5....hint no such phone exist. I don't think you can get an unlocked iPhone 5 at all yet.

And the iPhone 5 LTE isn't supported in all countries now is it? You are setting the bar above Apples reach and wondering why Google isn't hurdling it.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

Unless you think that's every country on the planet with LTE another hint, there is more then the USA. Technically the N4 supports more bands then any single iPhone.

Why do people make such a a big deal about it being unlocked and carrier free? The first thing you are going to do with it is take it to a carrier and pay for their service lol. With it being GSM only, your choices in the US are cut in half and limited to a garbage network like t mobile or have to deal with AT&Ts slower speeds. No thanks

flopticalcube
Nov 10, 2012, 10:39 AM
Why do people make such a a big deal about it being unlocked and carrier free? The first thing you are going to do with it is take it to a carrier and pay for their service lol. With it being GSM only, your choices in the US are cut in half and limited to a garbage network like t mobile or have to deal with AT&Ts slower speeds. No thanks

If you travel a lot, its important. If you are a low-talk user, it's important.

michaeljohn
Nov 10, 2012, 10:48 AM
If you travel a lot, its important. If you are a low-talk user, it's important.

You buy a nexus 4 and take it to AT&T or T mobile and get a contract for service with them. How is that any different than having any other phone?

flopticalcube
Nov 10, 2012, 11:05 AM
You buy a nexus 4 and take it to AT&T or T mobile and get a contract for service with them. How is that any different than having any other phone?

Its cheaper if you go with a non-mainstream provider and allows you to go with a carrier of choice, that's how. And the question was why is an unlocked phone important? so you still need the phone unlocked to do this.

onthecouchagain
Nov 10, 2012, 11:10 AM
Even if you can't appreciate an unlocked device, I don't understand why anyone who hates what carriers do isn't at the very least in support of the Nexus smartphone program.

As I said, if anyone really hates carriers delaying updates to devices, you should be in full support of what Google is trying to do.

Yet, there is this anti-Google and anti-Android spirit fueled by Apple, where even if you're not going to get it, you try to sh** on the Nexus 4 as much as possible.

All the while cursing the carriers for causing precisely the problems they dislike about Android.

michaeljohn
Nov 10, 2012, 08:38 PM
Its cheaper if you go with a non-mainstream provider and allows you to go with a carrier of choice, that's how. And the question was why is an unlocked phone important? so you still need the phone unlocked to do this.

Its GSM only, so your choices in carriers are very limited already, even more so when you rule out AT&T and T Mobile. You are gonna pay for a pretty nice phone and run it on a garbage carrier? Makes zero sense. Off brand carriers are just awful both in voice and data.

michaeljohn
Nov 10, 2012, 08:58 PM
As I said, if anyone really hates carriers delaying updates to devices, you should be in full support of what Google is trying to do.[/B]

And as i said, this isnt even a discussion unless you have AT&T or T-Mobile. Verizon and Sprint customers cant even buy a Nexus 4 which is pretty ridiculous. Google really dropped the ball on that. Apple can make their iPhones run on both GSM and CDMA networks with LTE and keep the carriers from adding bloatware, why cant Google?

onthecouchagain
Nov 10, 2012, 09:02 PM
And as i said, this isnt even a discussion unless you have AT&T or T-Mobile. Verizon and Sprint customers cant even buy a Nexus 4 which is pretty ridiculous. Google really dropped the ball on that. Apple can make their iPhones run on both GSM and CDMA networks with LTE and keep the carriers from adding bloatware, why cant Google?

You already know the answer to that.

And... did you even read the rest of my post?

If you like the iPhone 5, all good mate, but if you hate carriers, don't see why you would try to bash the Nexus 4 and or Android/Google when it's precisely them that are trying to help people break away from the carriers. I'm not one to draw conclusions, but it just sounds like you want a reason to hate anything non-Apple. I could be wrong.

Tig Bitties
Nov 10, 2012, 09:02 PM
You should root your phone, the minute you take it out of the box. Install a stock ROM at the least. As soon as new updates come out, a new ROM will have it immediately, and weeks before carriers will push out an update.

I have owned 7 Android phones over the years. I rooted them all right away, thus never once worried about updates ever again. That's best part of Android.

flopticalcube
Nov 10, 2012, 09:18 PM
Its GSM only, so your choices in carriers are very limited already, even more so when you rule out AT&T and T Mobile. You are gonna pay for a pretty nice phone and run it on a garbage carrier? Makes zero sense. Off brand carriers are just awful both in voice and data.

Never had any problems with mine. Since they are simply reselling airtime from a major, I'd consider it a non-issue. Of course, YMMV. GSM is fine by me as its the most widely supported standard worldwide.

onthecouchagain
Nov 10, 2012, 10:04 PM
Never had any problems with mine. Since they are simply reselling airtime from a major, I'd consider it a non-issue. Of course, YMMV. GSM is fine by me as its the most widely supported standard worldwide.

Tons of folks over at the iPhone forums seem to be using Straight Talk and Simple Mobile without much complaints. Think of the money they're saving too...

It just seems to me michaeljohn wants to play up every excuse/reason to have LTE and the iPhone. I could be wrong.

michaeljohn
Nov 10, 2012, 10:18 PM
Tons of folks over at the iPhone forums seem to be using Straight Talk and Simple Mobile without much complaints. Think of the money they're saving too...

It just seems to me michaeljohn wants to play up every excuse/reason to have LTE and the iPhone. I could be wrong.

Straight Talk limits you to 100mb of data a day and 2GB a month. You are kidding right? Thats a plan for a child, not an adult whos online on their phone. Buying the Nexus 4 and taking it to some random carrier sure seems like a lot of settling and doing without and for what? To say you get your updates before everyone else? Doesnt matter how great the phone is if the service sucks. Google needs to get their ****** together and make a phone that runs on CDMA with LTE without carrier interference. As I said, Apple can do it.

onthecouchagain
Nov 10, 2012, 11:51 PM
It's a little ridiculous to keep reiterating "Apple can do it" as if everyone else is like Apple. I too hope Google can forge relations with carriers (I've said it a number of times how important it is for their future). But you're the only one comparing them to Apple as if they are on equal footing. Talk about not playing fair. Don't forget Verizon turned Apple away the first time too when the iPhone was starting out.

Apple does indeed do it, so go forth and stick with Apple. Not sure why you're in the Alternative forums, complaining about carriers meanwhile complaining about Google who is against the carriers, meanwhile complaining that Google isn't like Apple, meanwhile berating the Nexus 4 which is the first legitimate opportunity for Google to improve branding to precisely have more clout with the carriers like Apple does.

Trolling much?

ChazUK
Nov 11, 2012, 12:04 AM
Speaking strictly from a UK perspective, this post is why it makes sense (and saves you money) to not have the subsidised handset on offer by the carrier.


Look at the value of these setups for my circumstances:

iPhone 5 16GB with unlimited data on Three (subsidiesed and SIM locked to the carrier).
79 upfront cost for the handset.
36 per month for 24 months.
Total cost of ownership: 943

This includes 2000 cross network minutes and 5000 three to three minutes - far more than I need.

iPhone 5 purchased from Apple with a sim only plan and unlimited data.
529 upfront cost for the handset.
15.90 per month on a 1 month rolling contract (cancel any time within a 1 month period.
Total cost of ownership over a 24 month period: 910.60

Nexus 4 16GB purchased from Google with a sim only plan and unlimited data.
279 upfront cost for the handset.
15.90 per month on a 1 month rolling contract (cancel any time within a 1 month period.
Total cost of ownership over a 24 month period: 660.60 (Reduced to 620.60 with the 8GB model).

The greatest things about the last two options is the fact you aren't locked in to a set timeframe, nor is your handset locked to a single carrier so if a better price plan comes along, you are only a phonecall away from cancelling your current plan and moving to a cheaper one.

There are some insane savings to be had getting a phone free from subsidy and the plans I used in the example above may have an even cheaper alternative elsewhere. I couldn't begin to guess what options your have in the US this though I do admit.

SprSynJn
Nov 11, 2012, 12:09 AM
Apple does indeed do it, so go forth and stick with Apple. Not sure why you're in the Alternative forums, complaining about carriers meanwhile complaining about Google who is against the carriers, meanwhile complaining that Google isn't like Apple, meanwhile berating the Nexus 4 which is the first legitimate opportunity for Google to improve branding to precisely have more clout with the carriers like Apple does.

Trolling much?

Hypocritical much? Seems to me this man is making a valid point, and all you're doing is "trolling" his argument because he's insulting your fling. This is a valid argument that is always made on the Internet, and has been for years. What about that can you not understand? You love Google, I'm sure he understands that. No need to be upset that he doesn't.

P.S. I'm also confused as to why you saying the Nexus 4 is the "first" opportunity for Google to change their problem. Have you not heard of the first three they released?

onthecouchagain
Nov 11, 2012, 12:19 AM
Hypocritical much? Seems to me this man is making a valid point, and all you're doing is "trolling" his argument because he's insulting your fling. This is a valid argument that is always made on the Internet, and has been for years. What about that can you not understand? You love Google, I'm sure he understands that. No need to be upset that he doesn't.

P.S. I'm also confused as to why you saying the Nexus 4 is the "first" opportunity for Google to change their problem. Have you not heard of the first three they released?

A lot of growing pains with the previous Nexus. And there may yet be more to come with the Nexus 4. I've written a number of times here how much more Google still has to accomplish with the Nexus line.

I have no problem with people complaining about Android. Android has some real problems. But michaeljohn keeps comparing Android to iOS as if the way iOS does things is the only right way to do it, then finishing every thought with an unrealistic and empty question, "Apple can do it, why can't Google?" The reasons why are incredibly obvious. Different business model, different strategy, different approach, and different reputation.

He tried the S3 knowing how Samsung and carriers handle updates (ie. poorly) then comes to complain about it. When offered that the Nexus line handles updates well, he says he can't compromise his carrier and LTE. Well then, it's obvious Android isn't the platform for him. Why come here to complain about it and compare them to Apple knowing that's an unrealistic comparison while not giving Google a fair chance to try to gain the same leverage as Apple has with the carriers?

I've said this a number of times, even if you're not going to purchase a Nexus 4, if you hate carriers for what they do, you should be in support of the Nexus smartphone program. This is possible to do without being a Nexus owner.

I quote again:

Even if you can't appreciate an unlocked device, I don't understand why anyone who hates what carriers do isn't at the very least in support of the Nexus smartphone program.

As I said, if anyone really hates carriers delaying updates to devices, you should be in full support of what Google is trying to do.

Yet, there is this anti-Google and anti-Android spirit fueled by Apple, where even if you're not going to get it, you try to sh** on the Nexus 4 as much as possible.

All the while cursing the carriers for causing precisely the problems they dislike about Android.

ixodes
Nov 11, 2012, 12:28 AM
As an Android user for the past 5 years, this has really gone from bad to worse to pathetic now.
Sounds like sour grapes. I hardly think someone who claims to be a long time Android user would make these strange claims.

I've been using both Android & iOS concurrently since the first day they were each introduced. Both have their pros & cons, yet I find them quite enjoyable. But then again I appreciate their differences and celebrate their individual strengths.

onthecouchagain
Nov 11, 2012, 12:37 AM
Verizon is notoriously difficult to work with. Just ask Microsoft. Or ask Google last year trying to get the Galaxy Nexus going. It was a debacle, largely with Verizon to blame.

They turned Apple away the first time. The difference is, Apple came back a different company and with far more leverage.

Google =/= Apple. It's silly to keep asking "Apple can do it, why can't Google?"

They're trying to do it. So if you're serious about Google succeeding with carriers to provide CDMA/LTE versions, I don't understand why you'd berate the Nexus 4 so much. Unless of course, you're not serious about it, and every time you ask "why can't Google?" you're just trolling and trying to mock Google...

SlCKB0Y
Nov 11, 2012, 12:43 AM
As an Android user for the past 5 years

The first Android phone was released 4 years ago.

It's your carrier holding back the update, not Google or Samsung.

Pretty simple really, I only buy Nexus products now for this reason and they are usually the best combination of hardware and software anyways.

SlCKB0Y
Nov 11, 2012, 01:03 AM
http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/108911-is-android-the-most-closed-open-source-project

Did you even read that article?


VisionMobile conducted their research by putting Android up against other open source projects such as Mozilla, Linux, MeeGo, and Eclipse. Using its own market research, the company rated each project on four areas: access, development, derivatives, and community.

How did Android rank? Dead last. In each category the mobile OS scored the lowest, which, in my opinion, does not indicate a lack of openness, but an overstatement of VisionMobile’s self-importance. In reading the infographic, it feels like the whole thing was created to expose Android as an open source sham. As an Android user, I have to take issue with this, specifically because it calls out Android in the areas of access, derivatives, and community.


The author of the article is arguing that Android is very open.

----------


Jailbreaking is also a one-click solution.
Installing MacOS on my PC is also a one-click solution.


The wait time to jailbreak a new version of iOS is way, way longer than for rooting.

Installing OS X on a PC is not even close to a one click solution. (i've done it at least a dozen times across different hardware).

No need to make stuff up to prove a point.

----------


I know what open source means. I been working with open source software for over 15 years.

Google needs to learn what Open Source means.



In what way do you work with with open source software?

Pretty sure the only person here who doesn't know what open source software is, is you.

cwwilson
Nov 11, 2012, 08:04 AM
What I'm a little upset about is that the Note 2 and S3 mini are running jelly bean and my S3 is not. But short of going through the rooting process and installing some dodgy ROM, it looks like the Sprint S3 is the only one that will EVER officially get JB. The Galaxy S4 will be out next year running 4.2 or higher so those of us waiting for Jelly Bean on our S3's might just have to get that phone instead, or a Nexus device.

SlCKB0Y
Nov 11, 2012, 08:07 AM
and installing some dodgy ROM

What do you mean by this? Why are you characterising them all as "dodgy" when it seems you have never used one before?

flopticalcube
Nov 11, 2012, 08:44 AM
Straight Talk limits you to 100mb of data a day and 2GB a month. You are kidding right? Thats a plan for a child, not an adult whos online on their phone. Buying the Nexus 4 and taking it to some random carrier sure seems like a lot of settling and doing without and for what? To say you get your updates before everyone else? Doesnt matter how great the phone is if the service sucks. Google needs to get their ****** together and make a phone that runs on CDMA with LTE without carrier interference. As I said, Apple can do it.

The nice thing about unlocked is you just move on to another carrier. It's anything but random. I pay $10 per month unlimited (it truly is, people have been using 10gb+ with no complaints). As far as I am concerned, it's Apple that needs to get its **** together, particularly software wise. I don't want either CDMA or LTE so Google makes the perfect phone for me and I suspect a lot of others as well.

michaeljohn
Nov 11, 2012, 10:00 AM
The nice thing about unlocked is you just move on to another carrier. It's anything but random. I pay $10 per month unlimited (it truly is, people have been using 10gb+ with no complaints). As far as I am concerned, it's Apple that needs to get its **** together, particularly software wise. I don't want either CDMA or LTE so Google makes the perfect phone for me and I suspect a lot of others as well.

Mind telling us where you are paying $10 a month and getting unlimited data? Apple is on pace to sell more than 50 million iPhone 5 by end of the year. The iPad which also runs that software is selling in huge numbers as well. You want to tell the most profitable company in the world that's on pace to sell more mobile devices in 3 months than their competition will in an entire year combined that they need to get their **** together? LOL

flopticalcube
Nov 11, 2012, 10:02 AM
Mind telling us where you are paying $10 a month and getting unlimited data?

https://www.speakout7eleven.ca/prepaid-cell-phone-rates

Browsing
For $10 a month*, you get unlimited browsing**. This means you can surf the web, check your Facebook, or if you’re feeling hungry, find the closest 7-Eleven. All right from your phone, 24/7. You can add Unlimited Browsing to you phone from within your SpeakOut online account, or by dialing 611 from your handset and speaking to customer service.

* The $10 fee will be deducted from your airtime balance on a monthly basis. See Phones for data-capable devices.

** To cancel this feature you must call customer service or deactivate the feature from within your online account as it automatically renews each month. If your airtime balance is below $12.00 at the time of renewal, the Unlimited Browsing feature will be removed from your account. To reconnect browsing please contact Customer Service or activate the feature from within your online account.

Rogers footprint. Confirmed speeds of up to 20Mbps down. Luckily on a rooted Android, unlimited browsing is pretty much unlimited data.

michaeljohn
Nov 11, 2012, 10:12 AM
Well that's great if you live in Canada. In the US something dodgy like a cell phone service run by a convienance store would be a joke. Sure there are things like straight talk and metro out here but call and data quality is awful. Paying for a nice new phone and taking it to a ghetto service is quite laughable

flopticalcube
Nov 11, 2012, 10:30 AM
Well that's great if you live in Canada. In the US something dodgy like a cell phone service run by a convienance store would be a joke. Sure there are things like straight talk and metro out here but call and data quality is awful. Paying for a nice new phone and taking it to a ghetto service is quite laughable

I think your ego is running ahead of you but whatever. I prefer to save the money. SpeakOut is not "run by a convienance store", they are only the retail front. Ztar Mobile manages the relationships and end-user technical issues but the carrier is ultimately Rogers which resells its airtime to Ztar. Call quality is the same as the Rogers plans which start at $20 (100MB cap) prepaid and $45 (100MB cap) contract. But I understand that you would rather be more concerned about how people judge you by the labels and brands you acquire than by the money you save.

michaeljohn
Nov 11, 2012, 10:35 AM
I think your ego is running ahead of you but whatever. I prefer to save the money. SpeakOut is not "run by a convienance store", they are only the retail front. Ztar Mobile manages the relationships and end-user technical issues but the carrier is ultimately Rogers which resells its airtime to Ztar. Call quality is the same as the Rogers plans which start at $20 (100MB cap) prepaid and $45 (100MB cap) contract. But I understand that you would rather be more concerned about how people judge you by the labels and brands you acquire than by the money you save.

It's not that at all, it's the fact that you get what you pay for. I have friends and even some family who have those off brand services like boost and metro. The call quality is usually so bad it sounds like they are talking to me from a tunnel. My cousins phone is a joke. I can literally go to and open 3 websites before his phone even opens one on his boost mobile service. Not to mention all the missed calls, dropped calls, no service warnings and all the other things he deals with but hey, he only pays $40 a month! Sorry but I use my phone for my business as well and need real service.

flopticalcube
Nov 11, 2012, 10:39 AM
It's not that at all, it's the fact that you get what you pay for. I have friends and even some family who have those off brand services like boost and metro. The call quality is usually so bad it sounds like they are talking to me from a tunnel. My cousins phone is a joke. I can literally go to and open 3 websites before his phone even opens one on his boost mobile service. Not to mention all the missed calls, dropped calls, no service warnings and all the other things he deals with but hey, he only pays $40 a month! Sorry but I use my phone for my business as well and need real service.

Sounds like all the complaints I here from all the carriers. I have NEVER had a dropped call with SpeakOut. In the mobile world, you rarely "get what you pay for" as you have really no idea what it is you are paying for.

Oletros
Nov 11, 2012, 10:44 AM
Well that's great if you live in Canada. In the US something dodgy like a cell phone service run by a convienance store would be a joke. Sure there are things like straight talk and metro out here but call and data quality is awful. Paying for a nice new phone and taking it to a ghetto service is quite laughable

There is a world outside USA and there is a world outside your ego.

michaeljohn
Nov 11, 2012, 10:47 AM
There is a world outside USA and there is a world outside your ego.

The world outside the USA means nothing to me when it comes to my cell phone and how it performs but thanks

cynics
Nov 11, 2012, 10:48 AM
Edit

Vetvito
Nov 11, 2012, 11:29 AM
Straight Talk has awful call quality and limits you to 100mb per day? News to me. I have Simple Mobile and Straight Talk, i haven't ran in to these limitations.

dalbir4444
Nov 11, 2012, 11:38 AM
https://www.speakout7eleven.ca/prepaid-cell-phone-rates



Rogers footprint. Confirmed speeds of up to 20Mbps down. Luckily on a rooted Android, unlimited browsing is pretty much unlimited data.

I have the same prepaid plan and their services are great.

----------

Well that's great if you live in Canada. In the US something dodgy like a cell phone service run by a convienance store would be a joke. Sure there are things like straight talk and metro out here but call and data quality is awful. Paying for a nice new phone and taking it to a ghetto service is quite laughable

You should refrain from speaking about things that you have done no research on.

onthecouchagain
Nov 11, 2012, 11:51 AM
I have the same prepaid plan and their services are great.

----------



You should refrain from speaking about things that you have done no research on.

Well said, but you're wasting your time with michaeljohn. He has said himself he only cares about his world and will only make judgments based within that narrow margin. Anything outside of that is irrelevant to him, yet he'll still judge everything based on his narrow standard just so he can troll/ask the question "why can't they fit it?" Really no point in answering him.

sviato
Nov 15, 2012, 08:44 AM
Speaking strictly from a UK perspective, this post is why it makes sense (and saves you money) to not have the subsidised handset on offer by the carrier.

There are some insane savings to be had getting a phone free from subsidy and the plans I used in the example above may have an even cheaper alternative elsewhere. I couldn't begin to guess what options your have in the US this though I do admit.

The issue is that it doesn't work this way in North America. Whether you buy a phone full price or on contract, the monthly fee is still usually the same (i.e. high fees).


@flopticalcube

Is unlimited web browsing even the same thing as unlimited data? I recall there being a distinction between the two, in that web browsing would not be data for apps etc.

Also 20Mb on Rogers network without LTE? That's just a pure lie. My carrier runs on Rogers' network as well and haven't seen speeds near that on HSPA+.


And you guys seem to be missing the OP's point. You're telling him to get a Nexus 4. He's telling you he's on Verizon, and that there is no CDMA Nexus and if there was it's not LTE (Verizon 3G is balls). And then you're telling him to get a Nexus again... are you guys reading the Op's responses?

ChazUK
Nov 15, 2012, 08:48 AM
The issue is that it doesn't work this way in North America. Whether you buy a phone full price or on contract, the monthly fee is still usually the same (i.e. high fees).

That is a real hard deal. :(

Oletros
Nov 15, 2012, 08:54 AM
I only pay 8 euro for 1GB of data. If I make any call I pay it 0.13 eurocent/sec

LIVEFRMNYC
Nov 15, 2012, 09:45 AM
As an Android user for the past 5 years, this has really gone from bad to worse to pathetic now. The final straw that led me to get an iPhone 5 was the JB debacle with the S3 here in the US. For those who dont know, Sprint released the JB update for its Galaxy S3 while those of us with AT&t, Verizon and T Mobile versions got the shaft and have been told sometime in 2013. Seriously, WTF? That would be like Sprint iPhone users getting to update to iOS 6 while AT&T and Verizon customers were told they had to wait a good 3-4 months to update. Pathetic.

I can understand when the international versions get an update and we have to wait longer in the US because we have models with different hardware, but the Sprint version of the S3 is identical to the versions on the other carriers! Where is the explanation from Google or Samsung on why this has happened? Or is it just the fact that the other carriers need more time to add their BS bloatware to the S3, so their customers get left in the dark?

Android is a great OS completely destroyed by things like this that continue to upset its customers and make them choose other options. I now have an iphone 5 with no intentions on ever going back until something is done. The short answer is to buy the Nexus but as a Verizon customer, I can't and I am not interested in the Nexus phone anyways. Shame.

So did a delay of update break your phone? I just don't get the impatient attitude concerning updates for a device you had less than half a year. So what other carriers updated quicker. If it that much of a problem for you, you should just root and install a leaked official JB rom.

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 09:59 AM
Where is the explanation from Google or Samsung on why this has happened?
Google and Samsung have nothing to do at all with carrier delays.

Recall that a very few years ago, no one outside of a select few really technical people ever upgraded their phones. The carriers resist it mightily even today. So... buying a carrier-locked phone is going to be an issue for some time to come. The Nexus line and the iPhones are better in this regard.

For you, on Verizon, it does seem like you should go with an iPhone, assuming you don't want to just root and upgrade.

Rodimus Prime
Nov 15, 2012, 10:06 AM
And as i said, this isnt even a discussion unless you have AT&T or T-Mobile. Verizon and Sprint customers cant even buy a Nexus 4 which is pretty ridiculous. Google really dropped the ball on that. Apple can make their iPhones run on both GSM and CDMA networks with LTE and keep the carriers from adding bloatware, why cant Google?

There is nothing Google can do about the CDMA issue. The carriers have full control over that. It is not an open standard like GSM. GSM follows certian rules. Sprint CDMA will not work on Verizon CDMA. Compared to T-Mobile gsm phone can work on AT&T GSM.

It how the control is done on it. The reason the Nexus 4 does not have LTE for example is because of the carrier issues and carrier control.

Verizon did a lot of damage to the Galaxy Nexus with there control issues.

What they need to do is separate out the radio function from the code and tell the carriers to F off because they are no longer going to touch the stuff the carriers have control over.

Also with Sprint and Verizon you have to build a custom phone for each one. Compared to GSM that works more than just in the US.

Also any one who thinks the iPhone really gets upgrade needs to have their head checked. Apple fragments their own stuff. Tell me why does the iPhone 4 not have Siri or GPS navigation? That is a pure software block nothing more.

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 11:26 AM
Also any one who thinks the iPhone really gets upgrade needs to have their head checked. Apple fragments their own stuff. Tell me why does the iPhone 4 not have Siri or GPS navigation? That is a pure software block nothing more.

The iphone 4 is a two year old phone. There are no 2 year old Android phones outside of the Nexus line even running JB, let alone 4.2 There are new phones like the S3 not even 6 months old running an outdated OS thats two versions behind. completely unacceptable.

onthecouchagain
Nov 15, 2012, 11:42 AM
completely unacceptable.

Yet you're considering the Note II / Droid DNA? I'm not allowed to use the big bad "T' word, but, please, you're not fooling anyone. If you are being honest and are considering the Note II or Droid DNA, then try to be a little less dramatic. This isn't the first time you've said lack of updates/fragmentation is a 100% deal-breaker (do I have to quote that list of you expressing explicitly how much a deal-breaker it is again?). Either it truly is a deal-breaker, in which case your time in the Alternatives is highly suspect, or it isn't a deal-breaker, in which case, stop being a drama queen.

And Apple's fragmentation is in some ways worse. The 4 and 4S are missing the main features of new versions of iOS. iPhone 4S is missing Navigation (main feature of iOS 6). iPhone 4 is missing Nav and SIRI (main feature of iOS 5).

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 11:45 AM
The iphone 4 is a two year old phone.
It was ~16 months old when Siri came out and wasn't allowed to run on it, despite running fine on it and the 3GS until Apple bought the company. Had the iPhone 4S never come out and the iPhone 5 came out over two years after the iPhone 4 release, it would have made more sense to have features not on the 4.

Google, at least, supports features that the hardware allows.

onthecouchagain
Nov 15, 2012, 11:50 AM
Plus, Google's lack of fear of fragmentation really allows them to, once in a while, make a gigantic leap in software. Think Gingerbread to ICS.

Whereas Apple, in trying to keep legacy devices in the loop, have to make more moderate upgrades to Software (in which some devices, even just one year old, won't get the main feature of said update). It's a slow and long game that I think some are growing, and others will grow, wary of.

ChazUK
Nov 15, 2012, 11:57 AM
It was ~16 months old when Siri came out and wasn't allowed to run on it, despite running fine on it and the 3GS until Apple bought the company. Had the iPhone 4S never come out and the iPhone 5 came out over two years after the iPhone 4 release, it would have made more sense to have features not on the 4.

Google, at least, supports features that the hardware allows.

I was surprised to see my Galaxy Nexus get Photosphere with the 4.2 update alongside my Nexus S getting panorama when it was upped from Gingerbread to ICS. They even added the Face Unlock stuff to the Nexus S back in the day and Google Now to the Nexus S JellyBean builds.

Nexus updates have, so far for me, given feature parity across multiple devices which is a massive difference to what Apple have given my iPhone 4 or iPad 2.

RMXO
Nov 15, 2012, 11:59 AM
go to xda-developers.com & learn how to free yourself from waiting for carrier updates. Rooting & installing new ROM's are very easy once you get the hang of it. My best recommendation for you if you decide this route, is to read & re-read until you are comfortable at it. Ask questions if you have an questions but don't expect to be spoon feed. Use the search function first then ask if you can't find an answer.

There will be threads with how-to's so some of your questions should be answered in them.

One of the main things about rooting & custom ROMs is that it allows you to backup your apps, perform a nandroid & remove carrier bloatwares. Of course, there are more but the rest is up to you to find out.

daveathall
Nov 15, 2012, 12:05 PM
Are the Nexus updates only OTA or is there a Google app or the like to update ones phone?

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 12:07 PM
Are the Nexus updates only OTA or is there a Google app or the like to update ones phone?
They're OTA.

They also release the update files, and you can install them yourself if you've rooted the phone, but it's not a simple click-click-and-done thing.

ChazUK
Nov 15, 2012, 12:17 PM
They're OTA.

They also release the update files, and you can install them yourself if you've rooted the phone, but it's not a simple click-click-and-done thing.

You can also now update via ADB thanks to the new recovery option to push the update.zip to the phone over USB.

Requires some SDK configuration but no root is necessary. :)

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 12:18 PM
You can also now update via ADB thanks to the new recovery option to push the update.zip to the phone over USB.

Requires some SDK configuration but no root is necessary. :)
My bad! Even better. :)

daveathall
Nov 15, 2012, 12:22 PM
Thank you very much for your answers, I am really not technically savvy or confident so would just use the OTA updates.

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 12:30 PM
Google, at least, supports features that the hardware allows.

Google might but that doesnt matter if the manufacturer doesn't. Android's history is littered with phones abandoned by manufacturers or carriers well before they were even a year old and whose hardware could easily run the newest versions of Android. Apple, while leaving off some features, has never fully abandoned one of their new phones.

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 12:33 PM
Android's history is littered with phones abandoned by manufacturers or carriers well before they were even a year old and whose hardware could easily run the newest versions of Android.
... and which were then supported by the developer community.

Your point?

onthecouchagain
Nov 15, 2012, 12:35 PM
Google might but that doesnt matter if the manufacturer doesn't. Android's history is littered with phones abandoned by manufacturers or carriers well before they were even a year old and whose hardware could easily run the newest versions of Android. Apple, while leaving off some features, has never fully abandoned one of their new phones.

So, Android and the nature of its methods aren't for you. You've expressed very clearly how the Nexus line is not an option for you, and other Android devices with untimely updates (read: all of them) are deal-breakers. You seem to really care about timely updates, even if they aren't in full, so unless you're considering Windows (in which case, it's odd to see you posting so much in Android threads) why are you still here? You're free to do what you like, of course, but I can think of only one reason why you're actively posting in Android threads.


By the way, let me help refresh your memory:

You're here to consider the Note II or Droid DNA? Maybe you are, maybe you aren't, but if I may quote your own words regarding updates and fragmentation, which the Note II/DNA will inevitably have trouble with:

"completely unacceptable"

"gone from bad to worse to pathetic..."

"the final straw..."

"Seriously, WTF?"

"great OS completely destroyed by things like this that continue to upset its customers and make them choose other options."

"I now have an iPHone 5 with no intentions on ever going back until something is done."

"Shame."


I think that it's time to take some of my own advice, and pay michaeljohn no more heed.

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 12:44 PM
... and which were then supported by the developer community.

Your point?

Really? I was not aware of any 2 year old Android phones which were released with outdated software then abandoned still being supported with the the current Android OS. Phones like the Motorola Devour, Motorola Cliq XT, LG Ally, HTC My Touch 3G slide, HTC Aria and countless others. could you please let us know where dev support for these phones running JellyBean is at? Thanks

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 12:51 PM
I think that it's time to take some of my own advice, and pay michaeljohn no more heed.
Agreed.

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 12:55 PM
So, Android and the nature of its methods aren't for you. You've expressed very clearly how the Nexus line is not an option for you, and other Android devices with untimely updates (read: all of them) are deal-breakers. You seem to really care about timely updates, even if they aren't in full, so unless you're considering Windows (in which case, it's odd to see you posting so much in Android threads) why are you still here? You're free to do what you like, of course, but I can think of only one reason why you're actively posting in Android threads.

I really like Android, I am just sick of buying a brand new phone thats always an update or two behind and getting the shaft while other phones get updated, even the SAME one I have but on a different carrier. Then having to pay retail for a new one 6 months later because I want the shiny new OS but my "old" phone has already been put on the back burner, its ridiculous and pathetic. I would be all over the Nexus 4 if Google hadnt gone the cheap route and left LTE radios out of it. New phones like the Droid DNA still keep me interested and are almost making me get one despite the carrier BS, so thats why I keep up in here.

ChazUK
Nov 15, 2012, 12:56 PM
Really? I was not aware of any 2 year old Android phones which were released with outdated software then abandoned still being supported with the the current Android OS. Phones like the Motorola Devour, Motorola Cliq XT, LG Ally, HTC My Touch 3G slide, HTC Aria and countless others. could you please let us know where dev support for these phones running JellyBean is at? Thanks

Motorola Devour - Released Feb 2010
Motorola Cliq XT - Released Mar 2010
LG Ally - Released May 2010
MyTouch 3G Slide - Released Mar 2010
HTC Aria - Released June 2010

Sources: http://www.phonearena.com

All of those handsets listed are over 2 years old.

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 01:00 PM
Motorola Devour - Released Feb 2010
Motorola Cliq XT - Released Mar 2010
LG Ally - Released May 2010
MyTouch 3G Slide - Released Mar 2010
HTC Aria - Released June 2010

Sources: http://www.phonearena.com

All of those handsets listed are over 2 years old.

The iphone 4 was released in June 2010. Its over 2 years old as well but is still updated to iOS 6. Where is Jelly Bean for the phones listed above? Hell, those phone never even saw ICS. Pathetic.

Rodimus Prime
Nov 15, 2012, 01:01 PM
The iphone 4 is a two year old phone. There are no 2 year old Android phones outside of the Nexus line even running JB, let alone 4.2 There are new phones like the S3 not even 6 months old running an outdated OS thats two versions behind. completely unacceptable.

siri was only 1 year out.

The point that I am making is your claim that iPhones get upgraded to iOS6.

It gets a sudo upgrade but not really there. They put pretty bogus blocks in them.
Also the Nexus S is running on Jelly bean. It is not getting 4.2.

ChazUK
Nov 15, 2012, 01:05 PM
The iphone 4 was released in June 2010. Its over 2 years old as well but is still updated to iOS 6. Where is Jelly Bean for the phones listed above? Hell, those phone never even saw ICS. Pathetic.

Definitely pathetic but my Nexus S, released December 2010 had all of these features alongside my Galaxy Nexus:
Panoramic camera.
Google Maps Navigation.
Google Earth with 3d buildings.
Google Now.

iPhone 4 is missing:
Panoramic Camera.
Apple Maps Navigation.
Flyover.
Siri.

Pathetic. e.t.c. ;)

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 01:08 PM
Definitely pathetic but my Nexus S, released December 2010 had all of these features alongside my Galaxy Nexus:
Panoramic camera.
Google Maps Navigation.
Google Earth with 3d buildings.
Google Now.

iPhone 4 is missing:
Panoramic Camera.
Apple Maps Navigation.
Flyover.
Siri.

Pathetic. e.t.c. ;)

Thats why I said "outside of the Nexus line" Find another 2 year old Android phone getting upgraded to JB, good luck...

Lara F
Nov 15, 2012, 01:17 PM
Look, I agree it sucks but if you're on Verizon you 1) wait for OTA updates longer than any other carrier 2) root or 3) go iPhone. That's it and it's not likely to change anytime soon. After how Verizon treated the Galaxy Nexus are you really going to blame Google for not going with them again?

I know Verizon has the best coverage, but this is the price you pay for going with them. And if you're in an urban area I suspect you're not being open minded about alternatives. T-Mobile on +42 HSPA should have excellent speeds on the Nexus 4 and there's over 100 US cities included:
http://forums.androidcentral.com/google-nexus-4/223610-list-all-163-t-mobile-hspa-42-markets.html

onthecouchagain
Nov 15, 2012, 01:19 PM
It's really mind blowing people can't understand Android's model. Even if one doesn't like it, can they not see that it's an entirely different idea and approach?

Apple makes iOS and makes the iPhone. They started out on one carrier for 4 years, but that worked out in their favor. They retain control of updates.

Google makes Android, OEMs make the hardware, and unfortunately, the carriers control most of the update process. Google isn't in the position to negotiate favorably with the carriers. Not yet anyway. That's what the Nexus is about. If you hate carriers delaying updates to Android, even if you aren't getting the Nexus 4, you should be in support of the program. Not everything is going to jump off in a flash and be where you want it to be. The Nexus smartphone is, in my opinion, only now finally coming into its own. It's just the modest beginnings. It's absurd to try to compare the two, then get mad that it's not exactly where Apple is. It's equally absurd to try to compare the OEM phones to Apple, as that's a vastly different model and approach.

Google is at least trying to offer a line that attempts to emulate what Apple is doing. There are compromises though because even that, they're doing via a different approach (unlocked, affordable, carrier-free).

You pick and choose what's best for you. Difficult choices are still better than no choices.

EDIT: Keep in mind, that's not to say the OEMs/carriers shouldn't get better at updating. They should. And though there's plenty of room for improvements still, they are getting better.

Anyone who acquiesce and replies to michaeljohn's "arguments" are wasting their time, and only feeding him. I'm not allowed to use the big bad "T" word, but check his post history. It's your choice, of course, to reply to whoever you want, but just pointing it out.

EDIT 2: It's ridiculous to respond to the whole "please find me a 2 year old phone that does this and that." Who cares about two year old phones? Yes, these are problems of Android of yesteryear(s).

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 01:28 PM
Look, I agree it sucks but if you're on Verizon you 1) wait for OTA updates longer than any other carrier 2) root or 3) go iPhone. That's it and it's not likely to change anytime soon. After how Verizon treated the Galaxy Nexus are you really going to blame Google for not going with them again?

I know Verizon has the best coverage, but this is the price you pay for going with them. And if you're in an urban area I suspect you're not being open minded about alternatives. T-Mobile on +42 HSPA should have excellent speeds on the Nexus 4 and there's over 100 US cities included:
http://forums.androidcentral.com/google-nexus-4/223610-list-all-163-t-mobile-hspa-42-markets.html

Thanks, it truly depends on your area. I have had all 4 major carriers and in this area, Verizon is by far the fastest data and best for voice as well. T Mobile is awful out here. Had to walk outside of my house just to get a signal and service goes in and out all over the place. I wouldnt have their service for free. You are right, I will have to live with an outdated Android phone or keep my iPhone 5.

----------



Anyone who acquiesce and replies to michaeljohn's "arguments" are wasting their time, and only feeding him. I'm not allowed to use the big bad "T" word, but check his post history. It's your choice, of course, to reply to whoever you want, but just pointing it out.

Says the guy who has been following me into every single thread and posting the same things about me. Please stop harassing me. If you dont agree with me, thats fine. There is no need to follow me into every thread copying and pasting what you said about me and my views in 4 other threads.

ChazUK
Nov 15, 2012, 01:28 PM
Thats why I said "outside of the Nexus line"

The situation with carriers and OEM's dropping support for hardware is something that really puts me off of non Nexus Android hardware so I agree with you 100% there.

personal tale of Android woe
I got stung with an Orange UK branded HTC Hero that was left on Android 1.5, just because Orange UK hadn't otimised their crap bundled software for the new firmware. They totally skipped 1.6 and jumped to 2.1 eventually then abandoned the phone with CyanogenMod picking up the pieces for me where HTC and Orange UK left behind. From that day on I vowed never to get a carrier branded handset again and you know what, it worked! #happyending :D

I also dislike the way Apple withhold "features" on older handsets, especially when the jailbreak community manage to add more and more functionality to older models (MMS on the original iPhone really stuck out in my mind as a real dick move by Apple (http://www.macworld.com/article/1141430/iphone2G_mms.html)).

You are stuck in an unfortunate situation where GSM the whole GSM/CDMA network setup limits your carrier choice.
You are stuck in an unfortunate situation where CDMA networks effect open development due to licensing issues (Google had issues even getting their CDMA hardware compatible with AOSP in the past).
You are stuck in an unfortunate situation where your carrier choice may hamper if and when you get updated and the fact that they have to certify the crap they want to push on their phone.

Given your situation I'd go iPhone and nothing else on CDMA, or suffer a GSM network with an unlocked Nexus device, and that is me being honest.

onthecouchagain
Nov 15, 2012, 02:07 PM
Says the guy who has been following me into every single thread and posting the same things about me. Please stop harassing me. If you dont agree with me, thats fine. There is no need to follow me into every thread copying and pasting what you said about me and my views in 4 other threads.

Please. I'm posting in these threads because I'm actually interested in an honest discussion about Alternatives to iOS. I cannot say confidently that you are here for the same reasons.

It's not that I don't agree with you, per se, it's just that you're being amazingly inconsistent with your positions and in your attempts to berate anything non-iPhone, which leads me to only one conclusion as to why you're here. And it's not very hard to demonstrate this reason; the evidence is in your own words.

But don't worry. I won't be replying to you again.

RMXO
Nov 15, 2012, 02:11 PM
Thank you very much for your answers, I am really not technically savvy or confident so would just use the OTA updates.

You don't need to be tech savy to hack your Android phone. All you need to is follow directions to the "T".

Read up about hacking your phone model a bit & find out if it interests you or not. Being able to backup all your apps+data & a nandroid is worth it alone.