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View Full Version : Nexus 4 annihilated by iPhone 5 in a variety of benchmarks




Pjstock42
Nov 15, 2012, 09:19 AM
Was actually thinking about jumping ship from the iPhone 5 to get this, but anandtech's in-depth review shows that iPhone is still king.

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6440/51554.png

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6440/51537.png

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6440/51547.png

Very odd how poorly this device performs when it's specs on paper seem to outshine the iPhone 5 in a number of ways.

Seems that time and time again, no matter how impressive the specs of a phone are, it means nothing if the OS isn't properly optimized for the hardware. Keep in mind that the iPhone outpaced the Nexus 4 in these and many more tests with a dual core processor up against the quad core found in the Nexus 4...



daveathall
Nov 15, 2012, 09:21 AM
Whats a triangle texture test please?

Pjstock42
Nov 15, 2012, 09:23 AM
Whats a triangle texture test please?

Something to do with the GPU I assume. The Nexus 4 had to be put in a freezer to marginally increase performance because it was overheating.

dalbir4444
Nov 15, 2012, 09:26 AM
The Nexus devices never had the best benchmarks. If you care about high performance, then wait for the Galaxy S4.

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 09:33 AM
The benchmarks are relatively irrelevant, and speculation is that many of them cannot access all the cores on the N4 anyway.

More relevant is user experience - if people say it's slow and laggy, that matters more, since no one depends on benchmarks, but people do depend on apps and screen use.

All the reviews I've read anywhere say that the N4 is really, really fast. Also, it runs Android infinitely faster than the iPhone, which is a huge plus.

I agree that there are many good reasons to choose the iPhone 5 over the N4 (and vice versa), but these benchmarks aren't one of them.

LIVEFRMNYC
Nov 15, 2012, 09:36 AM
This is why I never care for benchmarks much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=PtDnhN02k-c

You win some and loss some.

I'm more into hands-on review vids than charts.

zbarvian
Nov 15, 2012, 09:42 AM
Android is fundamentally slower than iOS it seems, and Apple's optimization is crazy good.

Real life tests between the iPhone 4S (not the 5) and Galaxy S3 I saw showed that the iPhone 4S is just generally quicker.

Also, for having a relatively tiny battery, the iPhone manages best-in-class battery life, bested only by behemoths like the Note 2 or Razr Maxx HD (which have battery capacities well over twice that of the iPhone).

LIVEFRMNYC
Nov 15, 2012, 09:53 AM
Android is fundamentally slower than iOS it seems, and Apple's optimization is crazy good.

Real life tests between the iPhone 4S (not the 5) and Galaxy S3 I saw showed that the iPhone 4S is just generally quicker.

Also, for having a relatively tiny battery, the iPhone manages best-in-class battery life, bested only by behemoths like the Note 2 or Razr Maxx HD (which have battery capacities well over twice that of the iPhone).

That's nonsense. I have both the 4, 4S and GS3.

GS3 is not slower nor is battery any worst. Batt life is just as good as the 4 and better than the 4S. Can't judge batt life on the 5 as I don't own one.

onthecouchagain
Nov 15, 2012, 09:56 AM
Is that running the final software? Because it is, then there's no denying it, it falls short on benchmarks. Looks like the Nexus 4 is a pass if that sort of stuff is important to someone. But will it be just as important when other phones beat the iPhone in benchmarks, I wonder?

The one thing to truly be concerned about is the battery life. It's good, but I don't get why it's not living up to its specs, especially since the tradeoff for LTE is for better battery life. I'm hoping Google will address this in a near-future update.

Apple did it with the 4S' battery problems, and it took more than one update to fix for everyone.

----------

That's nonsense. I have both the 4, 4S and GS3.

GS3 is not slower nor is battery any worst. Batt life is just as good as the 4 and better than the 4S. Can't judge batt life on the 5 as I don't own one.

You forget who you're quoting. ;)

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The Nexus devices never had the best benchmarks. If you care about high performance, then wait for the Galaxy S4.

This is true.

But, shouldn't a quad-core phone be performing better than some of its older dual-core counterparts? Is the software just not fully optimized yet for quad-core?

Personally, I don't care much about benchmarks. The reviews have said the device is smooth and fast and that's enough for me, but it is a bit of a mystery why it's not performing well in these tests. What's going on?

zbarvian
Nov 15, 2012, 10:04 AM
That's nonsense. I have both the 4, 4S and GS3.

GS3 is not slower nor is battery any worst. Batt life is just as good as the 4 and better than the 4S. Can't judge batt life on the 5 as I don't own one.

Go ahead and look at the battery life posted above. And here's the speed test video:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=msPHKs8cmbs

And another: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Qlls346Hk

That's the 4S, just to remind you. The fact that a dual core 800-950 MHz processor is THAT competitive with an Android powerhouse should tell you something about the underlying OS framework.

Dr McKay
Nov 15, 2012, 10:05 AM
Funny when it was the iPhone being beaten in benchmarks it was "Benchmarks don't matter! It's the experience!"

Yes well now I'm unsatisfied with the user experience iOS offers me. I'm still getting a Nexus 4, and will give my iPhone 5 to my Dad. He's of the age where he wants something simple, I want a little more customization.

zbarvian
Nov 15, 2012, 10:11 AM
Funny when it was the iPhone being beaten in benchmarks it was "Benchmarks don't matter!

Funny that fellow posters above you argue the same thing ;)

And that battery life benchmark is real-life number, it's not just some vague scientific result.

Dr McKay
Nov 15, 2012, 10:20 AM
Funny that fellow posters above you argue the same thing ;)

And that battery life benchmark is real-life number, it's not just some vague scientific result.

Because I hardly touch my phone except playing with it during breaks at work, my battery life is normally pretty high. It's been off the charger since 7AM and it's 16:20 right now, I'm on 78% battery on the iPhone 5, I should be good.

Pjstock42
Nov 15, 2012, 10:23 AM
Because I hardly touch my phone except playing with it during breaks at work, my battery life is normally pretty high. It's been off the charger since 7AM and it's 16:20 right now, I'm on 78% battery on the iPhone 5, I should be good.

Well then clearly these tests aren't important to you. For people (like myself) who have a job that requires travel/constant communication, these benchmarks are extremely important. There are many days where I am on my iPhone almost every waking second in an attempt to keep up with emails/other communications.

sc4rf4c3
Nov 15, 2012, 10:29 AM
Something is wrong with this Nexus 4. Even the U.S S3 and One X are beating it.

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 10:34 AM
Well then clearly these tests aren't important to you. For people (like myself) who have a job that requires travel/constant communication, these benchmarks are extremely important. There are many days where I am on my iPhone almost every waking second in an attempt to keep up with emails/other communications.
Since battery life is of utmost importance to you, it seems pretty clear that the iPhone 5 is a better bet for you. I mean this in all sincerity. It's a great phone with great battery life. There are no real downsides if you're not strongly keen on Android.

The benchmarks remain irrelevant, except for battery life. It's one of the few (that, to a large extent screen brightness, etc.) which actually matter. The others have little to no impact on day-to-day use for most users, except, typically, for gamers, who, typically, have better platforms than small phone screens for gaming.

nickchallis92
Nov 15, 2012, 10:39 AM
probably the pre-release ones they sent out which were woeful. New ones are almost certainly going to offer much better performance

Pjstock42
Nov 15, 2012, 10:39 AM
Since battery life is of utmost importance to you, it seems pretty clear that the iPhone 5 is a better bet for you. I mean this in all sincerity. It's a great phone with great battery life. There are no real downsides if you're not strongly keen on Android.

The benchmarks remain irrelevant, except for battery life. It's one of the few (that, to a large extent screen brightness, etc.) which actually matter. The others have little to no impact on day-to-day use for most users, except, typically, for gamers, who, typically, have better platforms than small phone screens for gaming.

I agree that the battery life tests are the most important of the bunch, what surprises me the most is how the iPhone's is so much higher on LTE than the N4 is on 3G...

I also wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Sunspider test...Web-browsing speed is something that's important to pretty much anyone who owns a smartphone.

Oletros
Nov 15, 2012, 10:46 AM
Web-browsing speed is something that's important to pretty much anyone who owns a smartphone.

Like succeeded with 3DMarks, when the browser developers optimize thwy browsers to have better scores in Sunspider, it doesn't really mean so much.

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 10:51 AM
I also wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Sunspider test...Web-browsing speed is something that's important to pretty much anyone who owns a smartphone.
I disagree to some extent - being able to surf on a smartphone is nice, but it's never a great experience due to being so constrained (it sucks on a 7" as well), so unless you're using the mobile-friendly versions of a page - which load quickly on almost anything you can buy today - load speeds are just one of your many browsing problems.

Granted, there are users to whom speed differences such as these really matter, and to those users, it is significant, but to many users, I do not think it matters all that much.

dalbir4444
Nov 15, 2012, 10:53 AM
Why does the iPhone 5 with LTE have a better battery life than the iPhone without it?

Oletros
Nov 15, 2012, 10:56 AM
I disagree to some extent - being able to surf on a smartphone is nice, but it's never a great experience due to being so constrained (it sucks on a 7" as well), so unless you're using the mobile-friendly versions of a page - which load quickly on almost anything you can buy today - load speeds are just one of your many browsing problems.

Granted, there are users to whom speed differences such as these really matter, and to those users, it is significant, but to many users, I do not think it matters all that much.


And Sunspider doesn't have direct relation with browser speed, it is Javascript performance

zhenya
Nov 15, 2012, 10:57 AM
Yeah, in light of how poorly the device performs, on benchmarks, on battery life, on available storage space, lack of LTE, and even price, (in the US market, no contract = no big deal for the majority of people not on T-Mobile), I thought that Brian Klug's review was remarkably positive under the circumstances.

If Apple were to have released a new flagship device like this, the criticism would have been deafening. I love Anadtech's reviews, but I leave this one feeling like it was heavily moderated in order to not offend his connections within the industry.

dalbir4444
Nov 15, 2012, 11:03 AM
Yeah, in light of how poorly the device performs, on benchmarks, on battery life, on available storage space, lack of LTE, and even price, (in the US market, no contract = no big deal for the majority of people not on T-Mobile), I thought that Brian Klug's review was remarkably positive under the circumstances.

If Apple were to have released a new flagship device like this, the criticism would have been deafening. I love Anadtech's reviews, but I leave this one feeling like it was heavily moderated in order to not offend his connections within the industry.

If Apple released the same device for $300, most people wouldn't complain either.

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 11:06 AM
Seems that time and time again, no matter how impressive the specs of a phone are, it means nothing if the OS isn't properly optimized for the hardware.

Thats a big problem with Android. The software isnt optimized to run on the hardware of every Android phone but you would figure it would be optimized to best run on Google's own phone. Apparently not. iOS is designed to run on Apple's Ax processors and it makes a huge difference. Having owned 7 Android phones in the past and now owning an iPhone 5, I am still surprised at how blazing fast it is doing everything.

zhenya
Nov 15, 2012, 11:07 AM
If Apple released the same device for $300, most people wouldn't complain either.

Perhaps, or they'd call it the iPad Mini. :cool:

Really though, we well know that Google releases these devices on almost zero profit margin, so the price argument is not the primary one. This is supposed to be state of the art for Android devotees.

Oletros
Nov 15, 2012, 11:07 AM
Thats a big problem with Android. The software isnt optimized to run on the hardware of every Android phone but you would figure it would be optimized to best run on Google's own phone. Apparently not. iOS is designed to run on Apple's Ax processors and it makes a huge difference. Having owned 7 Android phones in the past and now owning an iPhone 5, I am still surprised at how blazing fast it is doing everything.

Benchmark programs are not made by Google

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 11:10 AM
Benchmark programs are not made by Google

Thats not what I meant. I am saying that you would figure that Google would optimize the Android OS to work best with their own phone...

Oletros
Nov 15, 2012, 11:10 AM
Thats not what I meant. I am saying that you would figure that Google would optimize the Android OS to work best with their own phone...

And what makes you think that the OS doesn't work best with the hardware?

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 11:12 AM
And what makes you think that the OS doesn't work best with the hardware?

The extremely poor benchmarks of the N4. Apple doesn't make benchmarks either but that doesnt stop the iPhone and other iOS devices from doing very well in these tests.

Oletros
Nov 15, 2012, 11:13 AM
The extremely poor benchmarks of the N4

I repeat, benchmark programs are not made by Google

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 11:14 AM
I repeat, benchmark programs are not made by Google

They arent made by Apple either, so whats your point? Why do the iPhone and iOS devices perform so well then?

Oletros
Nov 15, 2012, 11:16 AM
They arent made by Apple either, so whats your point?

Do you remember the poor benchmarks that the first dual core Galaxy had? When the benchmarks were updated to take into acocunt the two cores, they skyrocketed.

onthecouchagain
Nov 15, 2012, 11:18 AM
Screen on time posted by XDA member.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8449/8049607056_b655e44cef.jpg

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 11:20 AM
Do you remember the poor benchmarks that the first dual core Galaxy had? When the benchmarks were updated to take into acocunt the two cores, they skyrocketed.

So you are blaming this on quadcore processors? LOL The N4 has nothing brand new. The HTC One X has the same processor and so does the LG Optimus G and both perform better. the N4 is just a flop in performance but thats also why its so cheap. You get what you pay for.

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 11:24 AM
You get what you pay for.
In this case, half as much for something that is, for me, 100% as usable and just as well-designed.

However, my battery needs are less. I agree that's a major shortcoming of the N4, if it's not addressable with a patch.

Oletros
Nov 15, 2012, 11:24 AM
Bah, nevermind.

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 11:30 AM
In this case, half as much for something that is, for me, 100% as usable and just as well-designed.

I agree and for most people buying the N4, those becnhmarks won't matter much, especially at its price point.

ChazUK
Nov 15, 2012, 11:37 AM
Despite the crazy benchmarks, I'm seeing a vast overall improvement compared toy Galaxy Nexus (which is to be expected given the specification disparity).

Everything from 3g performance, camera, 3D processing and overall fluidity is better.

A worth upgrade if there ever was one IMO. To all that think it isn't good enough, enjoy your Lumia's, iPhone's or BlackBerry's.

It's a very competitive market out there, you can't really go wrong!

dalbir4444
Nov 15, 2012, 11:41 AM
Perhaps, or they'd call it the iPad Mini. :cool:
Nexus 7.

Really though, we well know that Google releases these devices on almost zero profit margin, so the price argument is not the primary one.
For the Nexus 4, the price argument is the main argument. That's what is generating so much interest in the device.

This is supposed to be state of the art for Android devotees.
Nexus devices never have the latest hardware. They are about delivering the vanilla Android experience.

The Face
Nov 15, 2012, 12:03 PM
So you are blaming this on quadcore processors? LOL The N4 has nothing brand new. The HTC One X has the same processor and so does the LG Optimus G and both perform better. the N4 is just a flop in performance but thats also why its so cheap. You get what you pay for.You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

The Nexus 4 uses a Snapdragon S4 pro Quad core processor whilst the HTC One X and optimus G use the Tegra 3 processor.

onthecouchagain
Nov 15, 2012, 12:09 PM
Despite these benchmarks, Anandtech goes on to praise the device and the software.

Unless there's a specific reason these benchmarks are deal-breakers, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'm also not sure Anandtech has the final build. Regardless, based on everything that I'm reading, it sounds like this is something that can improve through updates from Google (again, Apple sends out patches, fixes, battery improvements, etc. to their iPhones and Macs too).

It's not uncommon for new devices to run into snags. The iPhone had plenty, and still does (the latest being the rapid-swiping screen issue; and the largest being antennagate. I didn't see a lot of iPhone fans abandoning Apple then...).

Having said that, Google still has much to learn, especially regarding launches (what a debacle).

----------

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?



People really need to stop taking michaeljohn seriously. I'm not allowed to use the big bad "T" word but if you look at his post history, it's really hard to draw any other conclusion why he's here at the Alternatives.

He claims he's here to discuss consideration for the Note II/Droid DNA, yet he expresses very clearly that the lack of updates and fragmentation are one hundred percent deal-breakers; wholly unacceptable. He also demands that the Nexus 4 have speedtests conducted from who knows what location, but will ignore that the Nexus 4 is the better choice for other users outside of where he lives, saying that's irrelevant to him.

siiip5
Nov 15, 2012, 12:12 PM
Was actually thinking about jumping ship from the iPhone 5 to get this, but anandtech's in-depth review shows that iPhone is still king.

Image (http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6440/51554.png)

Image (http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6440/51537.png)

Image (http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6440/51547.png)

Very odd how poorly this device performs when it's specs on paper seem to outshine the iPhone 5 in a number of ways.

Seems that time and time again, no matter how impressive the specs of a phone are, it means nothing if the OS isn't properly optimized for the hardware. Keep in mind that the iPhone outpaced the Nexus 4 in these and many more tests with a dual core processor up against the quad core found in the Nexus 4...

These benchmarks were inaccurate. If you want to post benchmarks that have sinse been re-examined and found faulty, please notify everyone that what you are posting is not final release data. Even Anandtech is keeping quiet about what looks like a bad review on their part. Doesn't look like their benchmarks were able to successfully read OS 4. 2 or the new 28nm quad-core SoC. Who knows, but they seem a bit perplexed. New data for production units are showing results like this everywhere:

http://www.mobilemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/geekbench.jpg

onthecouchagain
Nov 15, 2012, 12:16 PM
These benchmarks are from beta units running beta software. If you want to post pre-release benchmarks, please notify everyone that what you are posting is not final release data. Even Anandtech is keeping quiet about what looks like a bad review on their part. New data is showing results like this everywhere:

Image (http://www.mobilemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/geekbench.jpg)


You're 100% sure the Anandtech final review is still based on beta software? Do they mention it in the review? I've yet to read the entire thing.

Google advertises that talk time is 15+ hours. Anadntech's results are half of that. I know marketing may puff things up a bit, but that disparity is huge. It leads me to believe Anandtech is not running the latest software.

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 12:17 PM
You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

The Nexus 4 uses a Snapdragon S4 pro Quad core processor whilst the HTC One X and optimus G use the Tegra 3 processor.

Really? :rolleyes: The international One X uses a Tegra 3, the US version does indeed use a Snapdragon S4 as does the Optimus G

http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=3685

http://www.phonearena.com/news/LG-Optimus-G-with-its-Snapdragon-S4-CPU-brings-one-dandy-Living-Without-Boundaries-experience_id34575

Technarchy
Nov 15, 2012, 12:44 PM
These benchmarks were inaccurate. If you want to post benchmarks that have sinse been re-examined and found faulty, please notify everyone that what you are posting is not final release data. Even Anandtech is keeping quiet about what looks like a bad review on their part. Doesn't look like their benchmarks were able to successfully read OS 4. 2 or the new 28nm quad-core SoC. Who knows, but they seem a bit perplexed. New data for production units are showing results like this everywhere:

Image (http://www.mobilemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/geekbench.jpg)

Even the current review with a "final build" takes a beating from the iPhone5 in nearly every test.

siiip5
Nov 15, 2012, 12:50 PM
So you are blaming this on quadcore processors? LOL The N4 has nothing brand new. The HTC One X has the same processor and so does the LG Optimus G and both perform better. the N4 is just a flop in performance but thats also why its so cheap. You get what you pay for.

Nexus 4 has nothing new? Snapdragon Quadcore S4 Pro CPU? True world phone, usable on any gsm network? Android 4.2? Higher pixel density than the iphone 5? Dual-band wifi?

As for performance, it is the first phone to break the 2000 point mark on the Geekbench 2 test. It is also slightly faster than the ip5 in graphics getting nearly 40fps in GLBenchmark.

And the Nexus 4 has sold out in minutes in every country it came out in, including the US. This phone is already a success. I wonder if you called the ip5 a flop with the graphical pixelization issues, the iOS6 app failures, the dent and scratching issues, the audio stream bug that downloads audio streams over and over again, the excessive noise generated when the phones vibration hardware is activated, failure to detect quick scroll inputs, and so on?

I don't own a Nexus 4, nor will i ever, but it isn't like the iphone is the greatest thing since sliced bread. A little perspective shows it to be far from perfect.

----------

Even the current review with a "final build" takes a beating from the iPhone5 in nearly every test.

Please post links. Every one i have pulled up is not showing this.

michaeljohn
Nov 15, 2012, 12:51 PM
Nexus 4 has nothing new? Snapdragon Quadcore S4 Pro CPU?

That chip is already in the HTC One X and the Optimus G. So no, its nothing new and there is no reason the benchmarks should be thrown off by it.

siiip5
Nov 15, 2012, 12:57 PM
You're 100% sure the Anandtech final review is still based on beta software? Do they mention it in the review? I've yet to read the entire thing.

Google advertises that talk time is 15+ hours. Anadntech's results are half of that. I know marketing may puff things up a bit, but that disparity is huge. It leads me to believe Anandtech is not running the latest software.

No. I edited my post. Saying" Beta unit/software" was not accurate. A little more digging on my part looks like Anadtech got an "early" version of the phone where the cpu thermal throttled at a very low setting. We'll know more after today once the xda devs crack open the kernal.

DeathChill
Nov 15, 2012, 12:59 PM
It is also slightly faster than the ip5 in graphics getting nearly 40fps in GLBenchmark.


----------

[/COLOR]

Please post links. Every one i have pulled up is not showing this.
Mind posting links? Every graphics test except for Egypt Classic has the iPhone 5 destroying the Nexus 4.

siiip5
Nov 15, 2012, 01:01 PM
That chip is already in the HTC One X and the Optimus G. So no, its nothing new and there is no reason the benchmarks should be thrown off by it.

You are confusing the S4 with the S4 Pro.

Ericcc
Nov 15, 2012, 01:26 PM
That chip is already in the HTC One X and the Optimus G. So no, its nothing new and there is no reason the benchmarks should be thrown off by it.

The HTC One X uses a dual core S4. BTW its 1800 mah battery sucked during first reviews, but later greatly improved with a software update.

The LG Optimus does indeed have the same innards as the Nexus 4, including battery. That suggests battery performance ought to be similar between the two. Here's what The Verge posted on the Optimus G battery:


Using the AT&T model for a full day as I normally do brought the 2,100 mAh battery down to around 20 percent after 10 or so hours. That's about on par with what I experience on both the iPhone 5 and Galaxy S III. I have not experimented heavily with the Eco mode, which theoretically could extend the phone's longevity by quite a bit.

Note that they rated the Optimus battery a 8, while the Nexus 4 got a 9 (from different reviewers though). Given the identical hardware, if there is a discrepancy between battery duration, it's likely due to the software -something that can be patched.

Also, those benchmarks from the OP were posted on forums ~a week ago. Must have been a review unit and could not have been the final build.

sc4rf4c3
Nov 15, 2012, 01:48 PM
Maybe the Nexus 4 phones came from rejected Optimus G.

LIVEFRMNYC
Nov 15, 2012, 02:22 PM
......

Technarchy
Nov 15, 2012, 03:20 PM
Nexus 4 has nothing new? Snapdragon Quadcore S4 Pro CPU? True world phone, usable on any gsm network? Android 4.2? Higher pixel density than the iphone 5? Dual-band wifi?

As for performance, it is the first phone to break the 2000 point mark on the Geekbench 2 test. It is also slightly faster than the ip5 in graphics getting nearly 40fps in GLBenchmark.

And the Nexus 4 has sold out in minutes in every country it came out in, including the US. This phone is already a success. I wonder if you called the ip5 a flop with the graphical pixelization issues, the iOS6 app failures, the dent and scratching issues, the audio stream bug that downloads audio streams over and over again, the excessive noise generated when the phones vibration hardware is activated, failure to detect quick scroll inputs, and so on?

I don't own a Nexus 4, nor will i ever, but it isn't like the iphone is the greatest thing since sliced bread. A little perspective shows it to be far from perfect.

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Please post links. Every one i have pulled up is not showing this.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6440/google-nexus-4-review

Review went up 2 days ago.

Vegastouch
Nov 15, 2012, 03:38 PM
Something to do with the GPU I assume. The Nexus 4 had to be put in a freezer to marginally increase performance because it was overheating.
Lol, so you dont know what it means but your starting a thread on it anyways? Benchmarks only matter to geeks because they really dot mean much else. Besides, thise same scores that keep getting posted from that site were done before the final version os. I only care how quickly things load and if it is a second behind or ahead of another phone... Who cares as long as it isnt slow and the battery is good. I love my GS3 but dont like the screen in the sunlight. Otherwise it is fast, screen is big and works and looks great in doors and has a good battrry regardless of a benchmark.

siiip5
Nov 15, 2012, 03:39 PM
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6440/google-nexus-4-review

Review went up 2 days ago.

And as I stated, thermal throttling on a pre-released unit. He posted the update yesterday, but the phone and testing was done pre-release. The results are still off because the testing is heavily javascript based. This pretty much sums everything up, direct from your link:

I've re-run everything and can confirm obviously that there was thermal throttling going on affecting some of the results, and have included the new results wherever there was a deviation from previous. For those wondering why the LG Optimus G wasn't affected in spite of it having the same platform, the reason is because the results from the Optimus G were run in parts due to some instability affecting its ability to run a complete set of tests without crashing. The Nexus 4 has newer drivers that don't crash during a full GLBenchmark 2.5 run but as a result run the device long enough for thermal throttling to kick in.
The last sentence being key.

And finally, Our CPU performance side is unfortunately still dominated by JavaScript performance tests. The story there is that the Nexus 4 ships with Chrome (and originally shipped with a newer build of Chrome than what was on the market - we were running that updated version all along) and thus the mainline version of the V8 JavaScript engine. OEMs perform their own optimizations to the V8 library, and try to upstream whatever they can into the main project, but in the case of Chrome for Android that means V8 sans secret OEM sauce.

Benchmarks are great, for tech geeks, but the consumer word of mouth is what makes or breaks a phone. Ever wonder why the iphone 4S had declining sales figures the 9 months before the release of the iphone 5 or why we have seen Apple stock tank $200 a share since the iphone 5's release or why the Nexus 7, S3 and Note II (and now it seems the Nexus 4) have been selling like crazy? Word of mouth is powerful.

cynics
Nov 15, 2012, 03:52 PM
I have no doubt that a 5 is faster then an N4. But who cares at this point? Things that use true processing power like emulators are a JB option on iOS. Gran Turismo is a little laggy on my Xoom but its too much work for my iPad to even bother with to compare, which is impossible on iOS 6 anyway.

I don't need more power with my iPhone I need a more powerful OS to utilize that superior power!!

I'm on a 4S and its disappointing nothing can slow it down. I may have a reason to upgrade if there was.

So YAY an idevice that can't utilize its potential is faster in a benchmark!!

Btw here's a benchmark for you to show how useful they are.

Linpack on my 4S
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/16/6ydupygy.jpg

Linpack after an APP update on my 4S
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/16/2a2y2ese.jpg

Same phone same test but different versions of the app....

EDIT: Been forever since I ran it so here's linpak in 6.0.1

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/16/aga7y3am.jpg

spyguy10709
Nov 15, 2012, 03:54 PM
Ever wonder why the iphone 4S had declining sales figures the 9 months before the release of the iphone 5 or why we have seen Apple stock tank $200 a share since the iphone 5's release or why the Nexus 7, S3 and Note II (and now it seems the Nexus 4) have been selling like crazy? Word of mouth is powerful.

The 4S Stopped selling 3 months, not 9 months. It actually increased in sales.

As a semi-professional investor, AAPL's drop has next to nothing to do with the iPhone. It's the hedge fund managers taking their profits, and running back to a safer stock - like CVS or Walmart - if we go off the "fiscal cliff" come January, the tech sector will DIE.
The n7 has sold less than the iPad Mini, and it's been on sale since the summer, the S3 is being outsold by the iPhone FAMILY 2 to 1 (yes, yes, it sold more than the 4S -.-) And the N4 sold about 600K units. Superb. :cool:iPhone 5 sold that in 30 seconds (I kid you not) at 3AM. That's all google was willing to make available, because they make less than 4 dollars in profit for each unit, not taking into account returns, warranty, shipping, etc.

ChazUK
Nov 15, 2012, 04:01 PM
I have no doubt that a 5 is faster then an N4. But who cares at this point?

I remember when all that mattered was this:
http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/09/gb.png

Cheers of:

Nothing infuriates me more than Fandroids looking at spec sheets to determine what is better. OBVIOUSLY Android phones need more under the hood to compete with an iPhone with lower raw specs. That is clear.

Wow.

Two cores running @1.02 GHz each outperforming S3. Engineering people, engineering.

This is all less about specs and more about engineering.

Then we had this turn up and the chest thumping was premature:
http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/samsung-galaxy-s3-geekbench-benchmarks.jpg

Now we have this:
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/241/gbn4.png

I'm guessing Geekbench doesn't matter now? :p

cynics
Nov 15, 2012, 04:05 PM
The 4S Stopped selling 3 months, not 9 months. It actually increased in sales.

As a semi-professional investor, AAPL's drop has next to nothing to do with the iPhone. It's the hedge fund managers taking their profits, and running back to a safer stock - like CVS or Walmart - if we go off the "fiscal cliff" come January, the tech sector will DIE.
The n7 has sold less than the iPad Mini, and it's been on sale since the summer, the S3 is being outsold by the iPhone FAMILY 2 to 1 (yes, yes, it sold more than the 4S -.-) And the N4 sold about 600K units. Superb. :cool:iPhone 5 sold that in 30 seconds (I kid you not) at 3AM. That's all google was willing to make available, because they make less than 4 dollars in profit for each unit, not taking into account returns, warranty, shipping, etc.

You really think Google makes less then 4 dollars per unit by putting an Android device in the hands of a consumer? Day trading is fun but stick to your day job. :)

dalbir4444
Nov 15, 2012, 04:06 PM
The 4S Stopped selling 3 months, not 9 months. It actually increased in sales.

As a semi-professional investor, AAPL's drop has next to nothing to do with the iPhone. It's the hedge fund managers taking their profits, and running back to a safer stock - like CVS or Walmart - if we go off the "fiscal cliff" come January, the tech sector will DIE.
The n7 has sold less than the iPad Mini, and it's been on sale since the summer, the S3 is being outsold by the iPhone FAMILY 2 to 1 (yes, yes, it sold more than the 4S -.-) And the N4 sold about 600K units. Superb. :cool:iPhone 5 sold that in 30 seconds (I kid you not) at 3AM. That's all google was willing to make available, because they make less than 4 dollars in profit for each unit, not taking into account returns, warranty, shipping, etc.

Sources for the N4 sales?

onthecouchagain
Nov 15, 2012, 04:13 PM
if we go off the "fiscal cliff" come January, the tech sector will DIE.

Really? I'm curious. Why?

spyguy10709
Nov 15, 2012, 04:20 PM
Really? I'm curious. Why?

This "Fiscal Cliff" is whats going to happen once the 2 party system freezes our budgets again. If they don't have a budget by Jan 1, taxes will go up over 20% for everyone (Upper, middle and lower), 450 BILLION dollars will be cut from the spending budget, with about 3 MILLION government jobs cut or reduced - it's going to be a mess.

And no one cares. We had to have Obama... and now we have this mess.

Obama is REFUSING to sign any budget that doesn't give more money to unions taken from hardworking Middle and Upper class entrepreneurs in the form of higher payroll taxes. Not the "1%" tax - payroll taxes. So let's see - want to have more jobs in america, makes it 20% more expensive to hire someone. ****ing BRILLIANT!!

PS - I voted and supported Obama - and I feel duped.

Vitrum
Nov 15, 2012, 04:27 PM
I just hope they ship the damm phone soon and not in 3 weeks :(

siiip5
Nov 15, 2012, 04:39 PM
This "Fiscal Cliff" is whats going to happen once the 2 party system freezes our budgets again. If they don't have a budget by Jan 1, taxes will go up over 20% for everyone (Upper, middle and lower), 450 BILLION dollars will be cut from the spending budget, with about 3 MILLION government jobs cut or reduced - it's going to be a mess.

And no one cares. We had to have Obama... and now we have this mess.

Obama is REFUSING to sign any budget that doesn't give more money to unions taken from hardworking Middle and Upper class entrepreneurs in the form of higher payroll taxes. Not the "1%" tax - payroll taxes. So let's see - want to have more jobs in america, makes it 20% more expensive to hire someone. ****ing BRILLIANT!!

PS - I voted and supported Obama - and I feel duped.

You think this is the first time this govt has passed a budget on time? I have worked in govt through the last 5 Presidents. Every single time I have heard the sky is falling, we won't get paid, it is all the democrats / republicans stalling, taxes are gonna skyrocket, yada yada.

Every time, a miracle happens and a budget has passed. You know why? No senator or sitting President wants to explain why our military forces haven't been paid, especially when we have troops in combat. It will mean the end of their career. So, we see a lot of posturing and chest thumping, the occasional budget extension, but in the end everything is passed.

I have been in this game for too long.

And you might want to look at iphone sales over the last 3 quarters. What you stated is completely wrong.

----------

The 4S Stopped selling 3 months, not 9 months. It actually increased in sales.

As a semi-professional investor, AAPL's drop has next to nothing to do with the iPhone. It's the hedge fund managers taking their profits, and running back to a safer stock - like CVS or Walmart - if we go off the "fiscal cliff" come January, the tech sector will DIE.
The n7 has sold less than the iPad Mini, and it's been on sale since the summer, the S3 is being outsold by the iPhone FAMILY 2 to 1 (yes, yes, it sold more than the 4S -.-) And the N4 sold about 600K units. Superb. :cool:iPhone 5 sold that in 30 seconds (I kid you not) at 3AM. That's all google was willing to make available, because they make less than 4 dollars in profit for each unit, not taking into account returns, warranty, shipping, etc.

Sorry, wanted to quote this for posterity.

Tarzanman
Nov 15, 2012, 04:45 PM
If Apple makes a better device, then more power to them. At this point, I don't think you can say that. The Android phones seem to have more features, and the size and quality of the displays can't be ignored.

I applaud Apple for helping to push the envelope along. I definitely prefer android, but I can appreciate Cupertino's efforts

Vitrum
Nov 15, 2012, 04:48 PM
If Apple makes a better device, then more power to them. At this point, I don't think you can say that. The Android phones seem to have more features, and the size and quality of the displays can't be ignored.

I applaud Apple for helping to push the envelope along. I definitely prefer android, but I can appreciate Cupertino's efforts

I agree, big thanks to apple to make the push but now they can go back to thr trailer park :cool:

SlCKB0Y
Nov 15, 2012, 05:37 PM
Was actually thinking about jumping ship from the iPhone 5 to get this, but anandtech's in-depth review shows that iPhone is still king.



Oh, is this part of those set of reviews that people have already been talking about for weeks in which the review units were not the final hardware OR software? Where it has already been shown that these benchmarks are way under what they should be and that the shipped units drastically out perform the phone on which these tests were based?

This has been covered in depth pretty much all over the tech sites for the last week and this sub forum.
:rolleyes:

----------

New data for production units are showing results like this everywhere:

Image (http://www.mobilemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/geekbench.jpg)

Yay! Someone who knows what they are talking about!!!
:D

vcoleiro1
Nov 15, 2012, 07:43 PM
I thought those Anandtech initial N4 benchmarks were wrong.

See here : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1977708

SlCKB0Y
Nov 15, 2012, 09:16 PM
I thought those Anandtech initial N4 benchmarks were wrong.


They were! But what makes you think iOS fanboys are going to let facts and reality get in the way of their argument?
:D

DeathChill
Nov 15, 2012, 11:00 PM
They were! But what makes you think iOS fanboys are going to let facts and reality get in the way of their argument?
:D

Wait, what?

The initial benchmarks for the GPU seem to have stood but improved when put in a freezer. Not exactly earth shattering improvements, regardless. The other browser benchmarks didn't change as far as I know. I don't think any reviewers ran Geekbench so we can't compare.

Also, where are you getting the idea that the hardware wasn't final? I only saw this "fact" pop up here today when the benchmarks weren't great. Did anybody confirm this as it doesn't really make sense when the phone was released shortly after the reviews.

EDIT: Just want to point out that benchmarks aren't all that important. Experience is more important. It sounds like the Nexus 4 user experience is very nice. :)

spyguy10709
Nov 15, 2012, 11:19 PM
You think this is the first time this govt has passed a budget on time? I have worked in govt through the last 5 Presidents. Every single time I have heard the sky is falling, we won't get paid, it is all the democrats / republicans stalling, taxes are gonna skyrocket, yada yada.
That right there is what's wrong with our government - last minute patches because insiders like you guys (no offense) keep stalling, knowing that the other side will cave at the alst second.
Every time, a miracle happens and a budget has passed. You know why? No senator or sitting President wants to explain why our military forces haven't been paid, especially when we have troops in combat. It will mean the end of their career. So, we see a lot of posturing and chest thumping, the occasional budget extension, but in the end everything is passed.

I have been in this game for too long.
I don't know what you could do then... leave? I hear you guys have good pensions.
And you might want to look at iphone sales over the last 3 quarters. What you stated is completely wrong.[COLOR="#808080"]
I'll just leave this here, buddy.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/2012/04/24/technology/apple-earnings/chart-apple-earnings.top.gif

:)

----------

You really think Google makes less then 4 dollars per unit by putting an Android device in the hands of a consumer? Day trading is fun but stick to your day job. :)

On device sales - 4 dollars is optimistic. They make money from knowing where you are at every second of every day, reading your email, reading your texts, etc to target you better for ads.

It's not a bad thing, of course, as the phone costs only 300... Sell your soul much? lol

----------

I remember when all that mattered was this:
Image (http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/09/gb.png)

Cheers of:




Then we had this turn up and the chest thumping was premature:
Image (http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/samsung-galaxy-s3-geekbench-benchmarks.jpg)

Now we have this:
Image (http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/241/gbn4.png)

I'm guessing Geekbench doesn't matter now? :p

Check Geekbench's update history. Has only been updated for taller screens, not the new A6 Chip. The n4 isn't A15 AFAIK - so any updates would just be chip drivers. The a6 is really an A15-hybrid of sorts - it's an A9 with more instructions specifically set up for iOS (so in fact better than A15 for most purposes), built on a smaller process -

If GB ever updates for the A6 support - it's over buddy. Also, the N4 cheats, horribly. It overclocks itself for burst periods to look good in benchmarks. If you look at the longer benchmarks like sunspider10x (10x the length of sunspider) it gets KILLED.

siiip5
Nov 15, 2012, 11:45 PM
:)

----------



On device sales - 4 dollars is optimistic. They make money from knowing where you are at every second of every day, reading your email, reading your texts, etc to target you better for ads.

It's not a bad thing, of course, as the phone costs only 300... Sell your soul much? lol

----------



Check Geekbench's update history. Has only been updated for taller screens, not the new A6 Chip. The n4 isn't A15 AFAIK - so any updates would just be chip drivers. The a6 is really an A15-hybrid of sorts - it's an A9 with more instructions specifically set up for iOS (so in fact better than A15 for most purposes), built on a smaller process -

If GB ever updates for the A6 support - it's over buddy. Also, the N4 cheats, horribly. It overclocks itself for burst periods to look good in benchmarks. If you look at the longer benchmarks like sunspider10x (10x the length of sunspider) it gets KILLED.

As a self proclaimed "day trader" you don't seem to understand the definition of a "Quarter", when Q1 begins or how many "3 quarters" are? Why would you put a chart up that only goes to Q1 2012, when I specifically said the iphone has been sinking the past 3? Would it be because it refutes your belief that the iphone is the only phone people want or should be allowed to buy? As if variety and choice is a bad thing? Here is the chart showing Q1 through Q4 of 2012. Interestingly enough, sales of Samsung smartphones have been double what Apple has sold over the last 2 quarters. Additionally, the S3 had been out just a quarter and a half and had more sales than all iphones combined in Q4. Add to that a stock dump of nearly $200 a share in just a couple of weeks and analysts are scrambling making bold predictions of 50million+ sales of iphones this quarter. And when Apple only sells 30 million and misses those predictions, watch another huge stock nose dive. Analysts screw Apple all the time. I guess they are able to short the stock at the perfect times and making a killing through manipulation. Doesn't seem fair or legal.
Anyway, the full chart. See how big of a dive Apple had in Q2-Q4?
http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/70/00/006435/26-10-2012-09-43-55.jpg

vcoleiro1
Nov 16, 2012, 12:18 AM
I doubt those initial Anandtech benchmarks were even close to correct. The benchmarks I have seen on other devices with the same Snapdragon S4 Pro SOC are way better.

It's not the first time Ive seen that site give great marks to an iPhone and poor marks for an Android device only latter to see completley different benchmarks for the same device on other tech sites. It makes me very suspicious.

DeathChill
Nov 16, 2012, 07:15 AM
I doubt those initial Anandtech benchmarks were even close to correct. The benchmarks I have seen on other devices with the same Snapdragon S4 Pro SOC are way better.

It's not the first time Ive seen that site give great marks to an iPhone and poor marks for an Android device only latter to see completley different benchmarks for the same device on other tech sites. It makes me very suspicious.
So what you're saying is that it's Anandtech's fault? I find that hard to believe.

Anandtech does full, fair testing. I haven't seen any improved benchmarks pop-up, besides Anandtech's own improved ones due to putting the phone in the freezer.

SlCKB0Y
Nov 16, 2012, 07:36 AM
So what you're saying is that it's Anandtech's fault? I find that hard to believe.


It doesn't need to be their fault for their benchmarks to be invalid. What if the benchmark software wasn't functioning correctly under the brand new OS (4.2), what if the review unit they were using wasn't running the final software.... or hardware??

All of these things could make the test invalid through no fault of Anand nor any bias on their part.

cynics
Nov 16, 2012, 07:36 AM
:)

----------



On device sales - 4 dollars is optimistic. They make money from knowing where you are at every second of every day, reading your email, reading your texts, etc to target you better for ads.

It's not a bad thing, of course, as the phone costs only 300... Sell your soul much? lol

----------



.

Lol, so Apple tracking you for iAds is ok because you are paying 600-1000 unsubsidized? LOL

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/16/du9eqy5u.jpg

DeathChill
Nov 16, 2012, 07:49 AM
It doesn't need to be their fault for their benchmarks to be invalid. What if the benchmark software wasn't functioning correctly under the brand new OS (4.2), what if the review unit they were using wasn't running the final software.... or hardware??

All of these things could make the test invalid through no fault of Anand nor any bias on their part.

The poster said it was suspicious on Anandtech's part.

Regardless, it was the final hardware and the final software was released to the phones before the review went up.

Any benchmarks that are improved over Anandtech's?

jsw
Nov 16, 2012, 07:55 AM
Also, the N4 cheats, horribly. It overclocks itself for burst periods to look good in benchmarks. If you look at the longer benchmarks like sunspider10x (10x the length of sunspider) it gets KILLED.Overclocking for burst periods seems like exactly the behavior I want in a device, since I don't tend to be staring at it for long periods of time as it does benchmarks. I want it to be responsive when it needs to be.

So... I don't see your point about the overclocking. Phone app use is mostly sprints, not marathons.

Oletros
Nov 16, 2012, 07:57 AM
Also, the N4 cheats, horribly. It overclocks itself for burst periods to look good in benchmarks. I

Any proof that it overclocks?

Dr McKay
Nov 16, 2012, 08:24 AM
overclocks itself for burst periods to look good in benchmarks

Are you positive it Overclocks? Or does it just run at max clock speed? You are aware processors do downclock when idle? Infact the Tegra 3 "quad-core" actually has 5 cores, a lower clocked "companion core" which takes over and keeps the phone running when you lock it.

cynics
Nov 16, 2012, 08:27 AM
How is that cheating even if does overclock (which it doesn't)? The user will experience that when using the phone. However it runs at max clock speed when required, all modern devices do this even the iPhone.

Tinmania
Nov 16, 2012, 09:02 AM
Apple did it with the 4S' battery problems, and it took more than one update to fix for everyone.
Well that everyone didn't include me. My 4S's battery life is horrible--even now.

I can't see how my due-to-arrive-today N4 can be any worse. I am just starting work now and my 4S is at 50%. It was at 100% when I went to sleep last night. Basically just used iMessage, checked email, checked ups.com (about 30 times lol), and took a few turns on Words With Friends. Oh and two short phone calls. If I didn't have a charger everywhere I go, or spare external batt pack when I don't, I'd be in trouble.



This is true.

But, shouldn't a quad-core phone be performing better than some of its older dual-core counterparts? Is the software just not fully optimized yet for quad-core?

Personally, I don't care much about benchmarks. The reviews have said the device is smooth and fast and that's enough for me, but it is a bit of a mystery why it's not performing well in these tests. What's going on?

I don't know about you but my normal day-to-day usage pattern does not include running benchmarks. The Galaxy Nexus feels fine to me speed-wise. I have little doubt that the N4 will be better.

And no benchmark is going to make the iPhone 5 have a bigger screen.



Michael

jsw
Nov 16, 2012, 09:08 AM
Well that everyone didn't include me. My 4S's battery life is horrible--even now.
Ditto for me. I have a slide-on battery (which I don't activate until the 4S gets well below 50%), and I need to turn it on every day before leaving work, and that's with a phone that starts the day at 100%.

I'm hoping the N4 makes it through the day. If so, that's all I need. If not, it's no worse than the 4S.

onthecouchagain
Nov 16, 2012, 09:15 AM
And no benchmark is going to make the iPhone 5 have a bigger screen.




Touche, Michael.

----------

I can't imagine an HSPA+ phone not lasting the whole day. My Galaxy Nexus lasts easily even with heavy use.

I think y'all be fine. :)

jsw
Nov 16, 2012, 09:25 AM
I can't imagine an HSPA+ phone not lasting the whole day. My Galaxy Nexus lasts easily even with heavy use.

I think y'all be fine. :)
I dunno. I'm sort of terrified. From what I've heard of the unboxings, it's showing around 50% battery life as soon as they turn it on out of the box!

I assume that means just turning it on uses half the battery. Even my 4S takes at least 5 minutes to get to the 50% mark.

onthecouchagain
Nov 16, 2012, 09:32 AM
I dunno. I'm sort of terrified. From what I've heard of the unboxings, it's showing around 50% battery life as soon as they turn it on out of the box!

I assume that means just turning it on uses half the battery. Even my 4S takes at least 5 minutes to get to the 50% mark.


And turning the screen off drains the other 50%. It's that damn analog TV animation! The Nexus 4 is a one-charge-one-time use. :p

jsw
Nov 16, 2012, 09:36 AM
And turning the screen off drains the other 50%. It's that damn analog TV animation! The Nexus 4 is a one-charge-one-time use. :pWell, in the end, I'll still have that pretty back-side reflection. As a work of art, it's easily worth twice what I paid, and the frame will be cheap, since it's so small.

cynics
Nov 16, 2012, 10:07 AM
I dunno. I'm sort of terrified. From what I've heard of the unboxings, it's showing around 50% battery life as soon as they turn it on out of the box!

I assume that means just turning it on uses half the battery. Even my 4S takes at least 5 minutes to get to the 50% mark.

That doesn't mean much though. Battery should still be in its standby state when it leaves the factory. It will hold that charge for months, if a lithium ion goes completely flat (0 vdc) then it usually isn't salvageable.

Thats why you should keep old devices topped off and not sitting on a shelf collecting dust.

dalbir4444
Nov 16, 2012, 10:28 AM
That doesn't mean much though. Battery should still be in its standby state when it leaves the factory. It will hold that charge for months, if a lithium ion goes completely flat (0 vdc) then it usually isn't salvageable.

Thats why you should keep old devices topped off and not sitting on a shelf collecting dust.

I think he was being sarcastic or maybe I didn't catch your sarcasm.

jsw
Nov 16, 2012, 03:13 PM
I think he was being sarcastic...
Yup. :)

cynics
Nov 16, 2012, 03:18 PM
Yup. :)

Well uh, well uh, I was being sarcastic too!! :)

flopticalcube
Nov 16, 2012, 03:21 PM
And turning the screen off drains the other 50%. It's that damn analog TV animation! The Nexus 4 is a one-charge-one-time use. :p

That will still work out cheaper than the iPhone 5. ;)

vcoleiro1
Nov 16, 2012, 06:13 PM
The poster said it was suspicious on Anandtech's part.

Regardless, it was the final hardware and the final software was released to the phones before the review went up.

Any benchmarks that are improved over Anandtech's?

Ive seen other benchmarks for devices with the same SOC with totally different results. Don't believe me ,look them up and see for yourself. For example other benchmarks gave the same SOC a score of 1200(using default Chrome browser) for the sunspider test - big difference to 1800. All the other tests were way higher for graphics etc .

As others have said, it usually takes a while to tune the benchmarking softare to new SOC's - particularly Quad core ones. There's a number of factors they need to get right. Expect to see a whole different set of benchmarks for the SOC in 2 months time. Also, the sunspider test is run on stock browsers , the default browser under Android isn't the snappiest, so that result isn't a true indication of the HW capabilities - other snappier browsers could have been used - it's a bit of a silly test really - ie it doesn't reflect the so much the HW as it does the software (ie browser).

Example, here are some benchmarks for the Nexus 10 sunspider test

N10 using Chrome (default stock browesr) 1365ms

N10 using the QQ Browser 881ms

Reference - Iphone 5 (safari) 905ms

Quite the big difference isn't it!


Anandtech seem to race out with the benchmarks before they have gotten the benchmark software sorted for the SOC they are testing. It looks like they just want to be first to publish

To say the behemouth Snapdragon Pro S4 has mediocre-poor performance is ridiculous.

DeathChill
Nov 16, 2012, 08:08 PM
Ive seen other benchmarks for devices with the same SOC with totally different results. Don't believe me ,look them up and see for yourself. For example other benchmarks gave the same SOC a score of 1200(using default Chrome browser) for the sunspider test - big difference to 1800. All the other tests were way higher for graphics etc .

As others have said, it usually takes a while to tune the benchmarking softare to new SOC's - particularly Quad core ones. There's a number of factors they need to get right. Expect to see a whole different set of benchmarks for the SOC in 2 months time. Also, the sunspider test is run on stock browsers , the default browser under Android isn't the snappiest, so that result isn't a true indication of the HW capabilities - other snappier browsers could have been used - it's a bit of a silly test really - ie it doesn't reflect the so much the HW as it does the software (ie browser).

Example, here are some benchmarks for the Nexus 10 sunspider test

N10 using Chrome (default stock browesr) 1365ms

N10 using the QQ Browser 881ms

Reference - Iphone 5 (safari) 905ms

Quite the big difference isn't it!


Anandtech seem to race out with the benchmarks before they have gotten the benchmark software sorted for the SOC they are testing. It looks like they just want to be first to publish

To say the behemouth Snapdragon Pro S4 has mediocre-poor performance is ridiculous.

It's not Anandtech's fault that the software (such as the browser that comes with the phone) isn't optimized as of yet. The iPhone gets subjected to the same treatment upon release.

I don't think anyone is saying that its performance is poor. In fact, all we've really seen is browser based benchmarks which are more about the optimization in the browser software.

The graphics benchmarks all seem to be in line as far as I can tell. They are clocking in at number similar to the Optimus G (when thermal throttling is not a factor, of course).

Vegastouch
Nov 16, 2012, 08:17 PM
The phone is fast and the battery lasts the whole day under normal use and its unlocked. The only benchmark i care about is $349. The others,...who gives a s***.

Oh wait, there is one benchmark that is a near fail for me but could be do-able...........16GB.

vcoleiro1
Nov 16, 2012, 08:42 PM
It's not Anandtech's fault that the software (such as the browser that comes with the phone) isn't optimized as of yet. The iPhone gets subjected to the same treatment upon release.

I don't think anyone is saying that its performance is poor. In fact, all we've really seen is browser based benchmarks which are more about the optimization in the browser software.

The graphics benchmarks all seem to be in line as far as I can tell. They are clocking in at number similar to the Optimus G (when thermal throttling is not a factor, of course).

The results posted by Anandtech are very missleading, the N4 sunspider figure is only meant to be compared to other android devices for Chrome only, yet they put it in a list which included the iphone 5 running Safari.

It's like running a test to see how quickly MS Word runs on a PC and comparing it with how long Excel takes to run on a MAC. It's completely wrong to do and misleading.

I don't have much faith in anyone that will compare two completely different things like that and comment that that one is then faster. All credibility is lost in my eyes, right there.

DeathChill
Nov 16, 2012, 08:58 PM
The results posted by Anandtech are still wrong, it should be 1200 for sunspider for chrome as opposed to the 1800 they said. Also, that figure is only meant to be compared to other android devices for Chrome, yet they put it in a list which included the iphone 5 running Safari.

It's like running a test to see how quickly MS Word runs on a PC and comparing it with how long Excel takes to run on a MAC. It's completely wrong to do and misleading.

How are his results wrong? They are what the Nexus 4 scored. You can say it should have scored something different, but it didn't. That's on Google to update and optimize the software.

The idea of the SunSpider benchmark shows how each OS and browser performs in an identical test. It isn't a pure CPU benchmark meant to say, "This device is faster and always will be."

Grolubao
Nov 16, 2012, 09:04 PM
Who cares about benchmarks, it's frickin half the price of an iPhone 5

DeathChill
Nov 16, 2012, 09:06 PM
Who cares about benchmarks, it's frickin half the price of an iPhone 5

This is true! Benchmarks are definitely not hugely relevant when the user experience is fluid. I was just discussing them because it was brought up. :)

Vegastouch
Nov 16, 2012, 09:10 PM
This is true! Benchmarks are definitely not hugely relevant when the user experience is fluid. I was just discussing them because it was brought up. :)

Yea, but are you only going to go by Andatech and none of the others that had much higher socres? Ive said this a few times that i dont care about benchmarks and even when i read them i dont even know what they mean. No idea what it means by an Egypt benchmark....and dont care!

My GS3 isnt tops on those scores but it runs just fine for me and is quick and itjust got JB 4.1.1 that supports LTE so when T-Mobile gets LTE next year...ill have a ready phone,...if i keep it when i get a N4...which im sure i will.

vcoleiro1
Nov 16, 2012, 09:12 PM
^^

Benchmarks are meant to measure the performance of different devices while keeping as much as possible the same with other devices its compared against.

The fact is they made a claim that the iphone 5 is faster than the Nexus 4 without mentioning the browser differences, it is missleading. They didn't say anything about the browsers in the benchmark comparison in there comments, they just said look iphone 5 is faster for browsing in there comment under the benchmark. Everyone including the OP now believes the iphone 5 is twice as fast for browsing than the N4 which is completely due to there missleading way they published the results.

Frankly , you cannot compare the iphone 5 and N4 in a sunspider test when they run different browsers. I could publish a result that says the N4(with a different browser) is faster than iphone 5 - means absolutely nothing. You can only compare it to other Android phones running the same browser

Switchback666
Nov 16, 2012, 09:20 PM
I call ******** on the iphone 5 battery life, if it have the same battery 4s theres no way it have that runtime ! Specially with LTE; if it does (and i will only trust from someone i know personally and i have a idea of hes usage) means apple booby trap ios6 in the 4 and 4s.

dalbir4444
Nov 16, 2012, 09:20 PM
^^

Benchmarks are meant to measure the performance of different devices while keeping as much as possible the same with other devices its compared against.

The fact is they made a claim that the iphone 5 is faster than the Nexus 4 without mentioning the browser differences, it is missleading. They didn't say anything about the browsers in the benchmark comparison in there comments, they just said look iphone 5 is faster for browsing in there comment under the benchmark. Everyone including the OP now believes the iphone 5 is twice as fast for browsing than the N4 which is completely due to there missleading way they published the results.

Frankly , you cannot compare the iphone 5 and N4 in a sunspider test when they run different browsers. I could publish a result that says the N4(with a different browser) is faster than iphone 5 - means absolutely nothing. You can only compare it to other Android phones running the same browser

Yeah, I was a bit surprised they did that. I don't really follow their reviews too much but I had always heard that their reviews are very technical which the Nexus 4 one was for the most part, but the way they did some of the benchmarks seemed fishy.

DeathChill
Nov 16, 2012, 09:47 PM
Yea, but are you only going to go by Andatech and none of the others that had much higher socres? Ive said this a few times that i dont care about benchmarks and even when i read them i dont even know what they mean. No idea what it means by an Egypt benchmark....and dont care!

My GS3 isnt tops on those scores but it runs just fine for me and is quick and itjust got JB 4.1.1 that supports LTE so when T-Mobile gets LTE next year...ill have a ready phone,...if i keep it when i get a N4...which im sure i will.

Anandtech is the only one who has run a full suite of these benchmarks. Other reviewers who ran the same tests got similar results as Anandtech (e.g. Engadget). There are no higher scores using the same tests (e.g. same browser + test), as far as I know.

^^

Benchmarks are meant to measure the performance of different devices while keeping as much as possible the same with other devices its compared against.

The fact is they made a claim that the iphone 5 is faster than the Nexus 4 without mentioning the browser differences, it is missleading. They didn't say anything about the browsers in the benchmark comparison in there comments, they just said look iphone 5 is faster for browsing in there comment under the benchmark. Everyone including the OP now believes the iphone 5 is twice as fast for browsing than the N4 which is completely due to there missleading way they published the results.

Frankly , you cannot compare the iphone 5 and N4 in a sunspider test when they run different browsers. I could publish a result that says the N4(with a different browser) is faster than iphone 5 - means absolutely nothing. You can only compare it to other Android phones running the same browser

Yes, you want to test and compare devices in as similar a fashion as possible. Anandtech compared the stock browser on Android (Chrome) against the stock browser on iOS (Safari).

Anandtech didn't even mention the iPhone 5 when discussing the benchmarks, so I've got no clue where you're getting the idea that they said the iPhone 5 is faster.

No one is saying this is the only benchmark that matters. It's just a comparison between two stock devices. It's on Google that their browser isn't as fast as the competition. Just like when the iPhone falls behind (which I think it did on one or two of the web benchmarks) in a benchmark it's on Apple.

Tinmania
Nov 16, 2012, 09:52 PM
I now have my N4 and speed is not a concern whatsoever.

That said what benchmark can be used to measure Siri going into lala land--maybe she will understand, maybe she won't--when Google Now immediately translated and served up the answer or completed the request?



Michael

vcoleiro1
Nov 16, 2012, 10:11 PM
Anandtech list the iphone 5 against the N4 in the benchmark results with no mention of the browser differences. You can only conclude the iphone 5 is faster even thought that's incorrect. Its not on Google that there browser is slower, its up to Anandtech to be upfront about the differences , why did they not run the sunspider test with a different browser and say the N4 is faster, remember Android doesn't lock you into a browser like IOS more or less does. It's a simple matter of Anandtech not being upfront and clesar with there benchmaqrk reporting, if they were, this thread wouldn't exist .

They also go on and make the following statement which is outrageously missleading.

"SunSpider performance is good, but not significantly better than Qualcomm's Krait based Snapdragon S4. Both the iPhone 5 and RAZR i are able to outperform the Nexus 10. The S4 Pro based Nexus 4 tends to be in line with other S4 based devices - SunSpider doesn't really give much credit to the extra 2 cores."

ie The iphone is faster than the N10 , they make no mention of the browser differences do they, just say one device is faster than the other - if thats not missleading , then what is.

DeathChill
Nov 16, 2012, 10:28 PM
Sorry, I was looking at the full review. Forgot all about the performance preview.

Regardless, it's obvious they are talking about the SunSpider test in that remark.

They also say this when talking about a different benchmark:

"Nexus 10 manages to outperform the RAZR i by 34%, and compared to the A6/Swift based iPhone 5 the advantage grows to 64%."

Does that mean they're saying that the Nexus 10 is 64% faster than the iPhone 5? No, of course not. They're talking about the results of the benchmark.

They're comparing the stock browsers on the devices in performance. You may not like that Google isn't making use of all the available power, but that's not on Anandtech.

vcoleiro1
Nov 16, 2012, 10:35 PM
Sorry, I was looking at the full review. Forgot all about the performance preview.

Regardless, it's obvious they are talking about the SunSpider test in that remark.

They also say this when talking about a different benchmark:

"Nexus 10 manages to outperform the RAZR i by 34%, and compared to the A6/Swift based iPhone 5 the advantage grows to 64%."

Does that mean they're saying that the Nexus 10 is 64% faster than the iPhone 5? No, of course not. They're talking about the results of the benchmark.

They're comparing the stock browsers on the devices in performance. You may not like that Google isn't making use of all the available power, but that's not on Anandtech.


It's all about representation, they make no mention of the browser differences and just say one device is faster than the other. No matter which way you look at it , the statement is missleading, if it wasn't , this thread wouldn't exist.

It's that simple

DeathChill
Nov 16, 2012, 10:42 PM
It's all about representation, they make no mention of the browser differences and just say one device is faster than the other. No matter which way you look at it , the statement is missleading, if it wasn't , this thread wouldn't exist.

It's that simple

I'm not sure who would find it misleading. I would assume that all benchmarks would be done with the stock applications, such as the browser, unless noted otherwise.

They say one device is faster than the other for each test that they perform. They don't say it's the penultimate result for the device. They tell you the results of their test.

I'm not sure why this thread wouldn't exist if they had made it super clear that they were different browsers. They compared the performance of two stock devices and the iPhone was faster in this case.

EDIT: I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I feel Anandtech's testing methodology is pretty straight forward: stock devices, stock browser for web benchmarks. They compare the performance between the two devices as they ship. It's the fairest way to compare, I'd think.

vcoleiro1
Nov 16, 2012, 10:53 PM
How many people in the 110 posts above mentioned the browser difference as the reason for the speed difference in Sunspider. Looks like 110 posters were misslead as a start..

Not many people know that the chrome browser is slower than the Safari browser -thats if you were able to derive the browsers from - "stock browser". If you don't mention that and just compare two devices running these two different browsers then say one device is faster than the other. Everyone will assume that device is faster and not think about the browser. It was up to Anandtech to be upfront about this , especially as they knew this is a major factor.

It is only one benchmark , but its a major one, were talking about browsing which is the most used function .

As I said , it's about representation.

DeathChill
Nov 16, 2012, 11:04 PM
How were they misleading? They ran benchmarks and showed the results in a reasonable manner. They didn't do anything to optimize either devices score.

No one brought it up because it's pointless. The iPhone scored higher with its stock browser over the Nexus' stock browser. Seems like a pretty reasonable comparison to me.

As well, they specifically point out that Google has work to do on Chrome optimization for Android, so it's not as if they pretend that Chrome is perfect and it all falls on the device.

vcoleiro1
Nov 16, 2012, 11:07 PM
Ive outlined many times how it was missleading . I think we just need to agree to disagree and move on for the sake of this thread

DeathChill
Nov 16, 2012, 11:14 PM
Yeah, I'm never going to agree it's misleading. I can't agree that testing two stock devices and posting the results is somehow wrong.

Oh well, upwards and onwards!

matttye
Nov 17, 2012, 01:18 AM
Benchmarks mean sod all. Who cares.

Sacird
Nov 17, 2012, 01:37 AM
deleted..

Pjstock42
Nov 17, 2012, 11:40 AM
Who cares about benchmarks, it's frickin half the price of an iPhone 5

Yeah but who can actually get one at the retail price? Google blew their product launch big time and if you want to buy one of these and have it sometime in the next few months you'll have to either buy from a carrier or from eBay at a huge markup.

A low retail price doesn't mean much when there's no way to buy it at that price.

dalbir4444
Nov 17, 2012, 11:44 AM
Yeah but who can actually get one at the retail price? Google blew their product launch big time and if you want to buy one of these and have it sometime in the next few months you'll have to either buy from a carrier or from eBay at a huge markup.

A low retail price doesn't mean much when there's no way to buy it at that price.

That's just the product launch. Once they're back in stock, they'll continue to sell at the same price. In fact, Nexus 7 is selling for even cheaper than before.

Vegastouch
Nov 17, 2012, 12:17 PM
Yeah but who can actually get one at the retail price? Google blew their product launch big time and if you want to buy one of these and have it sometime in the next few months you'll have to either buy from a carrier or from eBay at a huge markup.

A low retail price doesn't mean much when there's no way to buy it at that price.

LOL, you act like they arent going to get any more of them. C-mon man you have seen this happen w/ Apple before. They will get more.

Switchback666
Nov 17, 2012, 01:18 PM
The other thread got closed for "cleaning" :( people need to stop abusing the report thing lol if you can handle the argument/forum then walk away !

tjl3
Nov 17, 2012, 02:18 PM
I call ******** on the iphone 5 battery life, if it have the same battery 4s theres no way it have that runtime ! Specially with LTE; if it does (and i will only trust from someone i know personally and i have a idea of hes usage) means apple booby trap ios6 in the 4 and 4s.

... reading your last couple of posts is giving me a headache =/

In my experience, my iP4 would last me roughly a day and a half for my usage. My GNex would last me a day or less, I would have to be generous w/ the usage. iP5 on LTE lasts me several days w/ the same usage across all the devices.

Anandtech's review on the iP5 battery life on LTE is significantly improved from previous generations, but results varied when on 3G. While on LTE, iP5 was drawing power for less periods, helping boost its battery life. Nothing to do with iOS, everything to do with design and hardware.

That said, as one owner said it is much improved from the GNex, and I think that counts in a big way!

Switchback666
Nov 17, 2012, 02:29 PM
These is my problem with reviews "test"

4s 9hrs+ on 3g:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/tuduvaty.jpg

4s 10hrs+ on wifi:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/zezyjebe.jpg

BUT now whe see these reviews with the iphone 5:

Over wifi:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/ujy2aneq.jpg

With cellular data:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/pe7a7u8u.jpg

=======================

My usage with only tapatalk over 3g and the little browsing for these pictures:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/5e3uryma.jpg

Ands that why i dont give a damm about reviews.

GoSh4rks
Nov 17, 2012, 02:52 PM
These is my problem with reviews "test"

4s 9hrs+ on 3g:

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/tuduvaty.jpg)

4s 10hrs+ on wifi:

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/zezyjebe.jpg)

BUT now whe see these reviews with the iphone 5:

Over wifi:

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/ujy2aneq.jpg)

With cellular data:

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/pe7a7u8u.jpg)

=======================

My usage with only tapatalk over 3g and the little browsing for these pictures:

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/5e3uryma.jpg)

Ands that why i dont give a damm about reviews.

Maybe this would actually mean something had you actually read the review text. You would have found that the test methodology changed. :rolleyes:

Notice that the second series of tests has AT Smartphone Bench 2013 in the title.

dalbir4444
Nov 17, 2012, 02:55 PM
Maybe this would actually mean something had you actually read the review text. You would have found that the test methodology changed. :rolleyes:

Notice that the second series of tests has AT Smartphone Bench 2013 in the title.

Then that would mean these tests are not reliable. What if the test methodology changes when the iPhone 5s comes out?

SomeDudeAsking
Nov 17, 2012, 02:59 PM
Yeah, Anandtech's battery life tests are now very suspicious and untrustworthy. Comparing their past battery life tests with their current ones, the same devices give wildly different numbers and is as if they are saying all the battery life tests they've done in the past is crap and they don't know how to conduct consistent tests. They don't even list what sites they are loading or even the times they wait between loading.

Switchback666
Nov 17, 2012, 03:00 PM
Maybe this would actually mean something had you actually read the review text. You would have found that the test methodology changed. :rolleyes:

Notice that the second series of tests has AT Smartphone Bench 2013 in the title.

Sure, maybe next year will be the same :rolleyes: ?

Maybe you next time you mind to read the whole post where i say how i dont trust these reviews and why.

zbarvian
Nov 17, 2012, 03:18 PM
Yeah, Anandtech's battery life tests are now very suspicious and untrustworthy. Comparing their past battery life tests with their current ones, the same devices give wildly different numbers and is as if they are saying all the battery life tests they've done in the past is crap and they don't know how to conduct consistent tests. They don't even list what sites they are loading or even the times they wait between loading.

They said they've recently improved their tests to approximate real-life usage. I don't tend to worry about the numbers as much as how my phone compares to others, the tests are useful for gauging that information.

SomeDudeAsking
Nov 17, 2012, 03:22 PM
They said they've recently improved their tests to approximate real-life usage. I don't tend to worry about the numbers as much as how my phone compares to others, the tests are useful for gauging that information.

I don't even remotely see how Anandtech's battery life tests are at all approximating real-life usage when they don't even tell you what sites they are loading and how long they wait before loading. The Anandtech battery life description even says they try to avoid caching, which is not at all realistic. And they don't even scroll or zoom into the page that a normal person would do. Anandtech's battery life tests are unrealistic and inconsistent.

dalbir4444
Nov 17, 2012, 03:23 PM
I don't even remotely see how Anandtech's battery life tests are at all approximating real-life usage when they don't even tell you what sites they are loading and how long they wait before loading. The Anandtech battery life description even says they try to avoid caching, which is not at all realistic. And they don't even scroll or zoom into the page that a normal person would do. Anandtech's battery life tests are unrealistic and inconsistent.

I wouldn't just single out Anandtech. I haven't ever seen a battery test done comprehensively for any phone. Unless someone can point me to one.

The Face
Nov 18, 2012, 07:05 AM
As for performance, it is the first phone to break the 2000 point mark on the Geekbench 2 test.I beg to differ, here's my score on the Note 2.

onthecouchagain
Nov 19, 2012, 09:40 PM
For what it's worth, there's an entire thread going on at the iPhone forums with varying results of the iPhone 5 battery experience ranging from poor to good.

calderone
Nov 19, 2012, 10:31 PM
Then that would mean these tests are not reliable. What if the test methodology changes when the iPhone 5s comes out?

They test them all again...

dalbir4444
Nov 19, 2012, 10:48 PM
They test them all again...

That's not of much use to someone who bought the 4S because of the battery life benchmarks based on the 'incorrect' tests.

calderone
Nov 20, 2012, 12:36 AM
That's not of much use to someone who bought the 4S because of the battery life benchmarks based on the 'incorrect' tests.

Testing methodologies often change, as long as the methods are documented properly the results are still relevant.

The goal in any of these these tests is to mimic as closely as possible typical usage that isn't exactly the easiest thing to codify (for obvious reasons), hence testing methods are improved to get closer to that goal.

Any potential purchaser should closely consider the testing method being used and determine whether their usage is similar. Simply consuming the numbers without considering the method is what I would call being a 'poor consumer.'

I think the following post is a good example of problem:
For what it's worth, there's an entire thread going on at the iPhone forums with varying results of the iPhone 5 battery experience ranging from poor to good.

Switchback666
Nov 20, 2012, 06:29 AM
Sure so next year the iphone 5 will stop to have 9hrs+ battery life like the 4s did.

I no longer care about those things and rather go by people experience.

kamalds
Nov 20, 2012, 01:43 PM
What? No Note 2?