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pizz
Nov 15, 2012, 02:14 PM
$329 iPad mini has wifi + 16gb. Now I can get a maxed out Nexus 7 with wifi, LTE, 32gb for $249.... seems like a no brainer. Until they drop the price to around $250, im finding it harder and harder to justify buying a mini!



sweetbrat
Nov 15, 2012, 02:18 PM
Ok, get the Nexus 7 then. Not quite sure what the point of this thread is. You don't seem to have a question or need input from anyone, and I'm not sure what kind of discussion you're looking for, if any. There's lots of other threads about this...

AppleRobert
Nov 15, 2012, 02:19 PM
$329 iPad mini has wifi + 16gb. Now I can get a maxed out Nexus 7 with wifi, LTE, 32gb for $249.... seems like a no brainer. Until they drop the price to around $250, im finding it harder and harder to justify buying a mini!

Apple versus Google ecosystem. If that doesn't bother you, go for it. There are other factors involved obviously but you will have decide which is best for you.

I have a 16gb Nexus 7 and the Mini. I love both! :)

Yr Blues
Nov 15, 2012, 02:23 PM
Ok, get the Nexus 7 then. Not quite sure what the point of this thread is. You don't seem to have a question or need input from anyone, and I'm not sure what kind of discussion you're looking for, if any. There's lots of other threads about this...

business class versus luxury class

that's why you pay extra for the good stuff

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2012, 02:24 PM
$329 iPad mini has wifi + 16gb. Now I can get a maxed out Nexus 7 with wifi, LTE, 32gb for $249.... seems like a no brainer. Until they drop the price to around $250, im finding it harder and harder to justify buying a mini!

Then don't justify it, purchase something else :rolleyes: This thread is utterly redundant...

rojder
Nov 15, 2012, 02:30 PM
I have just enough cash for an iPad mini or cheaper. Whatever I get will be my portable computer for the foreseeable future. The Nexus 7 is appealing on paper, but I can't help but see a picture forming the more I read hints or outright exasperation at how cheap and flawed it is.

My original iPod touch is both my enticement and anxiety toward an iPad. On one hand, it is still a superb little device, save for the broken headphone jack. Still feels extremely elegant and comes in handy for various things. Many of my app purchases made over the years will carry over to the mini.

But on the other hand, it has been stuck with an outdated version of the OS for a couple of years now, since Apple dropped support after iOS 4.2, and apps I've purchased have gradually grown incompatible or unusable.

A $330 iPad with 512 mb and an older processor scares me. I'm sure it is an absolute joy to use and runs very smooth today, but it is too easy to imagine the not-too-distant day that iOS and some of my favorite apps leave it in the dust.

raremage
Nov 15, 2012, 02:32 PM
$329 iPad mini has wifi + 16gb. Now I can get a maxed out Nexus 7 with wifi, LTE, 32gb for $249.... seems like a no brainer. Until they drop the price to around $250, im finding it harder and harder to justify buying a mini!

It's not for everyone. Enjoy the Nexus if that's what you really want.

ucfgrad93
Nov 15, 2012, 02:32 PM
Ok, get the Nexus 7 then. Not quite sure what the point of this thread is. You don't seem to have a question or need input from anyone, and I'm not sure what kind of discussion you're looking for, if any. There's lots of other threads about this...

Agreed. OP if you find better value in the Nexus 7 and it suits your needs, then get it.

GoCubsGo
Nov 15, 2012, 02:34 PM
Then buy the Nexus 7. Why in the world would we care?

pizz
Nov 15, 2012, 02:35 PM
Just seems Nexus has more bang for the buck which is always the case but even more now the price differences are so huge for what u get. I could maybe justify if it the mini had a retina! but I get that Apple has to introduce a "new" improved mini next year although im sure they could have included one now.

teknikal90
Nov 15, 2012, 02:35 PM
business class versus luxury class

that's why you pay extra for the good stuff

quit the pretentious snobby upperclass vs. middleclass crap please... you're buying a $300 facebook, angry birds and email machine that was machine manufactured and glued together in a sweatshop factory in china for the general best-buy population who find the $500 price of the bigger model too expensive. a far cry from a 'classy' high-society device aka. $8k Vertu and the likes...

Here's how you break this thing down properly:
Nexus 7: $199 - 16gb Wifi
Ecosystem (iOS advantage): $100 - that's the premium I place on app selection
Better Build quality: $ 50 - Value you can put on the camera + build
Refined OS (smoothness): $ 50 - iOS vs. Jelly Bean.
TOTAL $399
What I think is the value of an iPad Mini. Obviously the value can be higher or less depending on how much you value the ecosystem and OS smoothness.
but this has nothing to do with 'class' and all that narcissistic crap.

Timechaser
Nov 15, 2012, 02:36 PM
Where can I buy a 32GB Nexus 7 with LTE capability for only $250?

ucfgrad93
Nov 15, 2012, 02:38 PM
Where can I buy a 32GB Nexus 7 with LTE capability for only $250?

The OP misstated the price. It should be $299.

https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_7_32gb_hspa_att

pizz
Nov 15, 2012, 02:40 PM
I have just enough cash for an iPad mini or cheaper. Whatever I get will be my portable computer for the foreseeable future. The Nexus 7 is appealing on paper, but I can't help but see a picture forming the more I read hints or outright exasperation at how cheap and flawed it is.

My original iPod touch is both my enticement and anxiety toward an iPad. On one hand, it is still a superb little device, save for the broken headphone jack. Still feels extremely elegant and comes in handy for various things. Many of my app purchases made over the years will carry over to the mini.

But on the other hand, it has been stuck with an outdated version of the OS for a couple of years now, since Apple dropped support after iOS 4.2, and apps I've purchased have gradually grown incompatible or unusable.

A $330 iPad with 512 mb and an older processor scares me. I'm sure it is an absolute joy to use and runs very smooth today, but it is too easy to imagine the not-too-distant day that iOS and some of my favorite apps leave it in the dust.

I agree.. the old A5 chip and 512 and no retina? cmon if they could squeeze the new tprocessor and retina into an ipod and iphone then why not a mini iPad? I get its all about extending the product cycle and not blowing their load all at one time because in reality they have nothing new or innovative lined up for next year so its just going to be another round of so called "updates"

MacinTosh.0
Nov 15, 2012, 02:42 PM
Seriously. What's the point of this thread? When has Apple ever lowered its prices on products just to compete with their counterparts? You've been a member since 2007. I'm sure you know the answer to this one.

Timechaser
Nov 15, 2012, 02:42 PM
OK - thanks for clearing up the price issue for me :)

My next question is - Is there any way that my AT&T unlimited data plan can be transfered from my current iPad to a Nexus 7?

Yr Blues
Nov 15, 2012, 02:43 PM
quit the pretentious snobby upperclass vs. middleclass crap please... you're buying a $300 facebook, angry birds and email machine that was machine manufactured and glued together in a sweatshop factory in china for the general best-buy population who find the $500 price of the bigger model too expensive. a far cry from a 'classy' high-society device aka. $8k Vertu and the likes...

Here's how you break this thing down properly:
Nexus 7: $199 - 16gb Wifi
Ecosystem (iOS advantage): $100 - that's the premium I place on app selection
Better Build quality: $ 50 - Value you can put on the camera + build
Refined OS (smoothness): $ 50 - iOS vs. Jelly Bean.
TOTAL $399
What I think is the value of an iPad Mini. Obviously the value can be higher or less depending on how much you value the ecosystem and OS smoothness.
but this has nothing to do with 'class' and all that narcissistic crap.

narcissism has nothing to do with my post

it's what it is, built at a higher class of specification

the thinness and beauty makes it luxurious to experience

business class means "just enough to get by" … nothing fancy

davidjacobs21
Nov 15, 2012, 02:43 PM
Plus the Nexus 7 doesnt have LTE at 299, only HSPA+

GoCubsGo
Nov 15, 2012, 02:44 PM
I agree.. the old A5 chip and 512? cmon if they could squeeze that into an ipod and iphone then why not a mini iPad? I get its all about extending the product cycle and not blowing their load all at one time because in reality they have nothing new or innovative lined up for next year so its just going to be another round of so called "updates"

Great, you're unhappy. We get it. Get a blog where you can write about it all, buy a Nexus, and move on. It's totally okay and no one here will think differently of you buddy.

And I certainly don't think that the mini is "luxury" and the Nexus is "business" class. Or whatever the freak someone said. /shrug

SnowLeopard2008
Nov 15, 2012, 02:44 PM
The Nexus 7 performs quite poorly compared to iPad mini. It's got no camera on the back, the front one is low resolution. It's made of plastic and build quality is craptastic. The main drawback is no video out of any kind. I'd have to reply on Google's wireless features which are poor at best at the moment. Let's not forget that basically every single "tablet" app on Google's ecosystem is basically a blown up smartphone app. It's a poor use of what is already a pretty poor bit of screen real estate. But hey, you get what you pay for. If you buy an Android device, it's obviously inferior to an Apple device. Whatever floats your boat, go for it. The rest of us don't care.

Sensamic
Nov 15, 2012, 02:46 PM
$329 iPad mini has wifi + 16gb. Now I can get a maxed out Nexus 7 with wifi, LTE, 32gb for $249.... seems like a no brainer. Until they drop the price to around $250, im finding it harder and harder to justify buying a mini!

Plus 1GB RAM and HD display.

Oh... And GPS on the WIFI model.

Seriously, Apple? Why do you hate us? :D:D

pizz
Nov 15, 2012, 02:57 PM
Seriously. What's the point of this thread? When has Apple ever lowered its prices on products just to compete with their counterparts? You've been a member since 2007. I'm sure you know the answer to this one.

Ive been a fan of Apple from back in the day. I dont mind paying a primeum if im getting something better but i just dont see it in the mini

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 03:06 PM
The Nexus 7 performs quite poorly compared to iPad mini. It's got no camera on the back, the front one is low resolution. It's made of plastic and build quality is craptastic. The main drawback is no video out of any kind. I'd have to reply on Google's wireless features which are poor at best at the moment. Let's not forget that basically every single "tablet" app on Google's ecosystem is basically a blown up smartphone app. It's a poor use of what is already a pretty poor bit of screen real estate. But hey, you get what you pay for. If you buy an Android device, it's obviously inferior to an Apple device. Whatever floats your boat, go for it. The rest of us don't care.
Wow. You truly are uninformed, aside from the comments about the back camera and lack of video out (although it does stream video via AirPlay-line methods).

tech4all
Nov 15, 2012, 03:11 PM
$329 iPad mini has wifi + 16gb. Now I can get a maxed out Nexus 7 with wifi, LTE, 32gb for $249.... seems like a no brainer. Until they drop the price to around $250, im finding it harder and harder to justify buying a mini!

But the iPad mini has the :apple: on it. :p

Jokes aside, you are correct. When you compare specs the Nexus 7 beats the iPad mini in almost every way. Processor, screen, storage/price, etc. Now some will argue the App store is better than the Play store. Never used the App store, but to me the Play store apps are more than great.

But the fact remains that the iPad mini starting price of $329 should be at $199 or less. I'd say $149 - $179 with those specs.

sc4rf4c3
Nov 15, 2012, 03:14 PM
narcissism has nothing to do with my post

it's what it is, built at a higher class of specification

the thinness and beauty makes it luxurious to experience

business class means "just enough to get by" nothing fancy

Define higher class of specification. Is it made of gold or platinum? Since when being thin make something luxurious. Like what the other guy said cut the crap about this luxury ******.

To the OP if you think the Nexus 7 is a bang for the buck go for it and be happy.

pizz
Nov 15, 2012, 03:28 PM
business class versus luxury class

that's why you pay extra for the good stuff

Its like a BMW vs a Toyota. both great cars. both get u where you need to go just one does it more expensively not necessarily better.

spinedoc77
Nov 15, 2012, 03:38 PM
business class versus luxury class

that's why you pay extra for the good stuff

Great point! It's nice to know you get the luxury class with the Nexus AND at half the price.

SlCKB0Y
Nov 15, 2012, 03:48 PM
Then don't justify it, purchase something else :rolleyes: This thread is utterly redundant...

So is your post :p

SlCKB0Y
Nov 15, 2012, 03:59 PM
Ecosystem (iOS advantage): $100 - that's the premium I place on app selection

This is not the big problem that people love to make it out to be.


Better Build quality: $ 50 - Value you can put on the camera + build

I was handling both just yesterday and there basically is no difference in build quality. They both feel great...unless it *has* to be metal. I've owned tablets for more than 2 years, and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've actually used the rear facing camera.

I'd much prefer the GPS and NFC in the Nexus 7. Much more useful.


Refined OS (smoothness): $ 50 - iOS vs. Jelly Bean.

This is 100% rubbish.

TheHateMachine
Nov 15, 2012, 04:03 PM
The Nexus 7 performs quite poorly compared to iPad mini. It's got no camera on the back, the front one is low resolution. It's made of plastic and build quality is craptastic. The main drawback is no video out of any kind. I'd have to reply on Google's wireless features which are poor at best at the moment. Let's not forget that basically every single "tablet" app on Google's ecosystem is basically a blown up smartphone app. It's a poor use of what is already a pretty poor bit of screen real estate. But hey, you get what you pay for. If you buy an Android device, it's obviously inferior to an Apple device. Whatever floats your boat, go for it. The rest of us don't care.

You cared enough to post 10.6.

Jessica Lares
Nov 15, 2012, 04:10 PM
If you can't justify an iPad Mini, then you shouldn't be buying the Nexus 7 either to be honest. You're not saving money, you're just giving a reason for Google to talk you into buying content, and you will because the device is so cheap, it'll leave extra money in your pocket to do so.

teknikal90
Nov 15, 2012, 04:29 PM
This is not the big problem that people love to make it out to be.


I was handling both just yesterday and there basically is no difference in build quality. They both feel great...unless it *has* to be metal. I've owned tablets for more than 2 years, and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've actually used the rear facing camera.

I'd much prefer the GPS and NFC in the Nexus 7. Much more useful.


This is 100% rubbish.

to each their own, that's how I would justify an ipad mini. but i know for sure that there is no 'class' difference between the two. that class reasoning is rubbish - they're both high quality consumer products

as for the 100% rubbish thing. I don't believe that.
Open the same website on iOS and Nexus 7, on iOS, it looks better. The typography looks better, the display is more accurately calibrated, and the scrolling momentum is more natural. Open the photo app, which is more elegant? the keyboard even, which looks cleaner?
For some people, maybe yourself, those things may not be worth $50...you may even pay $50 to go the other way. You might hate the simplistic approach of iOS, but for a lot of people, like me, I feel that the tablet OS is more polished on iOS. Android on tablet feels too much like a scaled up phone OS with no extra work. So, no, not 100% rubbish.
on phones however, I feel Android is miles ahead.

ps: i dont own a mini, have no plans to

SlCKB0Y
Nov 15, 2012, 04:45 PM
The rest of us don't care.

And yet here you are, quiet clearly a blind Apple zealot posting your biased drivel in the alternatives to iOS sub forum.

SnowLeopard2008
Nov 15, 2012, 06:15 PM
And yet here you are, quiet clearly a blind Apple zealot posting your biased drivel in the alternatives to iOS sub forum.

Yet I'm a huge fan of non-iOS devices like HTC's Droid DNA and Nexus 4 and Lumia. I'm clearly a blind Apple zealot praising HTC and LG and Nokia. Calling someone a zealot instead of trying to refute my argument of factual information means you've lost the argument. A better non-Apple tablet than the Nexus 7 would be the Nook or Kindle Fire.

SnowLeopard2008
Nov 15, 2012, 06:27 PM
Wow. You truly are uninformed, aside from the comments about the back camera and lack of video out (although it does stream video via AirPlay-line methods).

Is it not plastic? Is it not cheap build quality? Some people reported that their screens would come apart from the casing because the clips weren't in place. While wireless is welcome and more futuristic than a cable, cable is more flexible. I can give a PowerPoint via any projector with an iPad. I just did this a few days ago. But unless the projector is wireless enabled, I can't do that with a Nexus 7. While some people say back cameras aren't needed and we all look stupid for using it, it's still a feature that the iPad has that Nexus7 doesn't. And it's a rather good camera too. I used it to record video for a project yesterday and edited it using iMovie. Can the Nexus 7 do this? No. Everything I said are facts. I'm a developer, I write apps for both iOS and Android and I'm working on BlackBerry and WP8 atm. I have seen very few Android apps optimized for a tablet. Most are what I say, blown up smartphone apps. I'd love to see better Android tablet apps. Competition makes everyone make better stuff.

Honestly, there aren't many full featured Android tablets that are good. Samsung's Galaxy is good but hardware is a bit old. Googles problem with tablets is not hardware, it's software. There's a reason why iPad mini is $329, because it can every single thing a full size iPad can do no exceptions. It has two cameras, fast A5 SoC, video out, and a screen that is smaller but not small. Nexus 7 has many trade offs both software and hardware.

SlCKB0Y
Nov 15, 2012, 06:28 PM
A better non-Apple tablet than the Nexus 7 would be the Nook or Kindle Fire.

And yet the build quality, OS, and hardware of the Nexus 7 is superior to both these tablets. That's really strange that you would suggest those tablets...it's almost as if you're willing to endorse pretty much everything over a pure Android tablet.

There were some issues with a very small proportion of the first run of Nexus 7's which has since been rectified.

The nexus 7 is significantly cheaper.
It has a great build quality, it's definitely on par with iPad mini. All the reviews I have read agree that the build quality of the Nexus 7 is great.
It has a far superior CPU.
It has a far superior screen.
It has NFC and GPS, both of which are far more useful on a tablet than a rear facing camera. My phone has a camera and I've never been somewhere with my tablet and not my phone. GPS wouldnt be much use on the iPad mini given Apple Maps.
It's funny, I've never had a problem finding the tablet optimised apps i require. Bottom line is neither you nor I know how many there are.

Yet I'm a huge fan of non-iOS devices like HTC's Droid DNA and Nexus 4
You're right: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=16295507#post16295507

There you are, complaining that the screen resolution on the DNA is too high. You've also managed to bring up the performance issues Anand found on the pre release hardware and software of the Nexus 4. Those issues are not present on the shipping Nexus 4. Either you've been deceptively selective in bringing it up or just plain old ignorant.

fast A5 SoC
It's a slow 2 year old chip

SnowLeopard2008
Nov 15, 2012, 06:30 PM
And yet the build quality, OS, and hardware of the Nexus 7 is superior to both these tablets. That's really strange that you would suggest those tablets...it's almost as if you're willing to endorse pretty much everything over a pure Android tablet.

I just said the problem is SOFTWARE. Not HARDWARE. I really like the Kindle Fire. It's got a lot of quality content ala SOFTWARE. Same with Nook.

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 06:51 PM
Is it not plastic?
The back is plastic, yes. This makes it a lot easier to hold. The aluminum back of the iPads is cold, slippery, and uncomfortable. Plasitc, in this case, is the better solution. Also, note that part of the back of all cellular iPads is also plastic.Is it not cheap build quality? No, it's not cheap build quality.Some people reported that their screens would come apart from the casing because the clips weren't in place.Yes, some people did. Some people report issues with build quality on every Apple product made as well. Look at the iPhone 5 screen issues (and the screen issues of countless previous Apple products). Defects happen, and as often to Apple as elsewhere. While wireless is welcome and more futuristic than a cable, cable is more flexible. I can give a PowerPoint via any projector with an iPad. I just did this a few days ago. But unless the projector is wireless enabled, I can't do that with a Nexus 7. True. You can't do that with a Nexus 7 - although for the $130 difference, you could by a device to connect wirelessly. That said, the number of people who use iPad Minis to give PowerPoint presentations via a cabled connector is exceedingly small. Maybe just you and, last year, me.
While some people say back cameras aren't needed and we all look stupid for using it, it's still a feature that the iPad has that Nexus7 doesn't. And it's a rather good camera too. I used it to record video for a project yesterday and edited it using iMovie. Can the Nexus 7 do this? No.As I said, I grant the back camera as a plus. Of course, for the $260 I save buying a 32GB N7 with cellular over the comparable iPad Mini, I could buy a nice dedicated camcorder, and a fairly decent one for the almost $200 I'd save if I went with non-cellular versions. Everything I said are facts. I'm a developer, I write apps for both iOS and Android and I'm working on BlackBerry and WP8 atm. I have seen very few Android apps optimized for a tablet. Most are what I say, blown up smartphone apps. I'd love to see better Android tablet apps. Competition makes everyone make better stuff.I find this surprising, since most of the apps on my N7 are either tablet-centric or don't look like "blown up smartphone apps." I agree that competition is good, but I think it's a lot farther along than you do. Perhaps we just use different types of apps.
Honestly, there aren't many full featured Android tablets that are good. Samsung's Galaxy is good but hardware is a bit old. Googles problem with tablets is not hardware, it's software. There's a reason why iPad mini is $329, because it can every single thing a full size iPad can do no exceptions. It has two cameras, fast A5 SoC, video out, and a screen that is smaller but not small. Nexus 7 has many trade offs both software and hardware.We have very, very different views of that. And I don't think we'll change each other's minds.

I like the iPad Mini. I do. But I don't like it for $329 minimum, and I don't think it feels good when held. I completely grant that it's gorgeous. I like the other camera. But... I don't like the lack of GPS, the lessor resolution, the aluminum back, and so on.

Related: I'm typing this on a Chromebook and not the MBA next to me. Why? It's cold in here and the MBA is harsh in the cold, and the edges feel sharp. The plastic of the Chromebook feels much more comfortable. In this case, I'm not even going to begin to say they're similar - remember, I have both and use the MBA for anything besides surfing and email - but in some cases, excellent visual design impedes comfortable use.

SlCKB0Y
Nov 15, 2012, 06:51 PM
I really like the Kindle Fire. It's got a lot of quality content ala SOFTWARE. Same with Nook.

Huh?!? The Kindle Fire uses Android apps. The only difference is that the Amazon market has nowhere near as many as its a smaller subset of the Google Play market.

If you're talking about the OS, the Kindle fire is running an older, inferior, more locked down version of Android which performs nowhere near as well as Jelly Bean.

The Fire also misses out on the excellent Google Apps.

Have you actually used any of these devices for any length of time?

SnowLeopard2008
Nov 15, 2012, 07:13 PM
The back is plastic, yes. This makes it a lot easier to hold. The aluminum back of the iPads is cold, slippery, and uncomfortable. Plasitc, in this case, is the better solution. Also, note that part of the back of all cellular iPads is also plastic.No, it's not cheap build quality.Yes, some people did. Some people report issues with build quality on every Apple product made as well. Look at the iPhone 5 screen issues (and the screen issues of countless previous Apple products). Defects happen, and as often to Apple as elsewhere.

My iPad mini is cold but not slippery. Metal feels more premium and solid. Plastic feels cheap and creaky especially the rubbery coating on the Nexus 7.

True. You can't do that with a Nexus 7 - although for the $130 difference, you could by a device to connect wirelessly. That said, the number of people who use iPad Minis to give PowerPoint presentations via a cabled connector is exceedingly small. Maybe just you and, last year, me.

Yes but that device would be single purpose and extraneous. It's much easier to use cable and also much cheaper. PowerPoint is just an example of video out. There's also AirPlay and technologies similar to that. The Nexus 7 seems to be aimed at full feature tablets like iPads but all it can do is really consume multimedia content but it fails somewhat that you can't share the content thru video out to a TV.

As I said, I grant the back camera as a plus. Of course, for the $260 I save buying a 32GB N7 with cellular over the comparable iPad Mini, I could buy a nice dedicated camcorder, and a fairly decent one for the almost $200 I'd save if I went with non-cellular versions.I find this surprising, since most of the apps on my N7 are either tablet-centric or don't look like "blown up smartphone apps." I agree that competition is good, but I think it's a lot farther along than you do. Perhaps we just use different types of apps.

Yes, the apps you use are the tablet versions. But the overall selection of tablet centric apps is quite small versus iOS. If all you do is Netflix, Facebook, Twitter, etc. then sure it's all good. But what about educational apps?Or any app made by any non-well known company like FaceBook, Netflix, etc. my point is that the overall quality and quantity of iPad apps is better than Android. It's getting there and a lot of progress is certainly being made but for now, iOS is king for tablet apps in quality and quantity. Microsoft's Surface might change this.

We have very, very different views of that. And I don't think we'll change each other's minds.

I like the iPad Mini. I do. But I don't like it for $329 minimum, and I don't think it feels good when held. I completely grant that it's gorgeous. I like the other camera. But... I don't like the lack of GPS, the lessor resolution, the aluminum back, and so on.

Related: I'm typing this on a Chromebook and not the MBA next to me. Why? It's cold in here and the MBA is harsh in the cold, and the edges feel sharp. The plastic of the Chromebook feels much more comfortable. In this case, I'm not even going to begin to say they're similar - remember, I have both and use the MBA for anything besides surfing and email - but in some cases, excellent visual design impedes comfortable use.

I love Chrome OS. It's got a few problems by being ahead of its time because its essentially dead and useless without an Internet connection which is the only reason why I haven't gotten one. I like the fundamentals of it, I like it being cloud based and how anyone can just log in and use it and its not tied to a specific account. I'd rather buy a tablet for the price because its easier to read books, more portable and handles HD content better. There are also games for tablets and the graphics are stellar whereas a Chromebook tries to mimic a laptop but the hardware is not quite up to task. For very basic computing tasks like Internet and email, it's certainly a great little machine.

Huh?!? The Kindle Fire uses Android apps. The only difference is that the market has nowhere near as many as its a smaller subset of the Google Play market.

Have you actually used any of these devices for any length of time?

Content is not just apps. I should have been more clear. Amazon is making the Fire primarily for people to consume their Instant Video service and of course apps. Google Play is getting there but as of right now Amazon has more content. In terms of apps, Amazon curates the store whereas any and every app is approved by Google for Play. So quality is better with Amazon's walled garden. Amazon is no just any other Android tablet manufacturer. They are trying to create a content ecosystem like iTunes + iPod.


I was very tempted to get a Nexus 7 but after seeing it at a store, I felt it was too small to do anything useful. While one of the main reasons that its good is that it's pure Android and doesn't have the UI crap like TouchWiz or Moto Blur, I found the lack of a back camera and output port to be drawbacks. I felt that it was trying really hard to be a full featured tablet but lacks something so basic as a output port and back camera. Other tablets like Nook and Kindle Fire aren't trying to be full featured tablets. They are just purely media consumption devices and its quite clear that its not a general purpose tablet like Surface or iPad. They do a really good job being media consumption devices.

jsw
Nov 15, 2012, 07:19 PM
Content is not just apps. I should have been more clear. Amazon is making the Fire primarily for people to consume their Instant Video service and of course apps. Google Play is getting there but as of right now Amazon has more content. In terms of apps, Amazon curates the store whereas any and every app is approved by Google for Play. So quality is better with Amazon's walled garden. Amazon is no just any other Android tablet manufacturer. They are trying to create a content ecosystem like iTunes + iPod.
I agree that Amazon has done an absolutely stellar job with the Kindle Fire line - it makes it so, so, soooo easy to spend money, and the user experience is good... as long as you stay in the garden. To me, it's a dedicated media device without a lot of other use (other than buying things off Amazon), but it's a damned fine dedicated media device.

Regarding Chrome OS/Chromebooks - I agree, tablets are generally better deals, but I'm taking a family trip to Disney World soon for a while, and the keyboard, easy emailing, and so on - as well as Flash for clubpenguin.com (a must!), well... it's worth it.

SlCKB0Y
Nov 15, 2012, 07:24 PM
Content is not just apps. I should have been more clear.

Well yea, you should have. First you go on about the Nexus hardware and I refute that stuff, then you say NO NO NO, I meant software, which I again refuted... now its MEDIA MEDIA MEDIA.

SnowLeopard2008
Nov 15, 2012, 07:29 PM
I agree that Amazon has done an absolutely stellar job with the Kindle Fire line - it makes it so, so, soooo easy to spend money, and the user experience is good... as long as you stay in the garden. To me, it's a dedicated media device without a lot of other use (other than buying things off Amazon), but it's a damned fine dedicated media device.

YES, this is my point. Nexus 7 is trying to fight with Kindle Fire and Nook and iPad all at the same time. It's a jack of all trades and master of none. I don't think it does well in either category, full feature tablet vs media consumption. Apple isn't trying to compete directly with dedicated media devices like Kindle Fire, it's trying to make an easier entry point for the iPad. Also, if the so called PC era is any indication of the future mobile era of tablets and smartphones, we need multiple form factors. Apple doesn't just sell one size laptop, they sell 3 different sizes and even two different product lines of the 13" size. There's also desktops and mini desktops and full size towers.

SlCKB0Y
Nov 15, 2012, 07:34 PM
YES, this is my point. Nexus 7 is trying to fight with Kindle Fire and Nook and iPad all at the same time. It's a jack of all trades and master of none. I don't think it does well in either category, full feature tablet vs media consumption. Apple isn't trying to compete directly with dedicated media devices like Kindle Fire

The Nexus 7 isn't trying to be a pure media consumption device any more than iPad. How do you come to this conclusion? iPad has iTunes for Movies, TV and Music and iBooks for books. Android has Play Books, Play Movies, Play Music, Play Magazines.

How is this any different? Is it different because one is an iPad and one isn't? What are you even talking about?

Also, how is the iPad a "full featured" tablet? I can't even get access to the file system or do basic things like set default apps or have proper multitasking. In fact if anything I would argue that Android is much more full featured and has LESS focus on media consumption and paid-for apps than iPad.

And I'm not pulling this stuff out my arse, I have a 10.1" Android tab, a Nexus 7 and an iPad right here in front of me.... I use these devices daily, I didn't just pick one up in a store for 5 minutes, come to all sorts of biased conclusions and then run home to try and propagate them all over an internet forum.

Does this stuff that you come up with make sense to you when it's rattling around in your head?

SnowLeopard2008
Nov 15, 2012, 07:51 PM
And yet the build quality, OS, and hardware of the Nexus 7 is superior to both these tablets. That's really strange that you would suggest those tablets...it's almost as if you're willing to endorse pretty much everything over a pure Android tablet.

There were some issues with a very small proportion of the first run of Nexus 7's which has since been rectified.

The nexus 7 is significantly cheaper.
It has a great build quality, it's definitely on par with iPad mini. All the reviews I have read agree that the build quality of the Nexus 7 is great.
It has a far superior CPU.
It has a far superior screen.
It has NFC and GPS, both of which are far more useful on a tablet than a rear facing camera. My phone has a camera and I've never been somewhere with my tablet and not my phone. GPS wouldnt be much use on the iPad mini given Apple Maps.
It's funny, I've never had a problem finding the tablet optimised apps i require. Bottom line is neither you nor I know how many there are.


You're right: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=16295507#post16295507

There you are, complaining that the screen resolution on the DNA is too high. You've also managed to bring up the performance issues Anand found on the pre release hardware and software of the Nexus 4. Those issues are not present on the shipping Nexus 4. Either you've been deceptively selective in bringing it up or just plain old ignorant.

It's a slow 2 year old chip

Wrong. It's a second version of a two year old chip. Its not the same exact part as the original A5. Its using a newer manufacturing process. I didn't complain, I said that its overkill. Overall, the DNA is an excellent phone. I love it. The screen is a bit overkill but the again I think iPhone is bit overkill on thinness. It's not a complaint, just an observation.

NFC is more useless than a camera. Although GPS is more useful than either camera or NFC. And also, look at benchmarks, the iPad mini outperforms the Nexus 7. AnandTech has some. Overall, the Nexus 7 is better at being a dedicated media device than full feature tablet like iPad BUT I find more and better content like apps, games, movies, TV shows, etc. on Kindle Fire than Nexus 7.

Once Google or whomever builds the next Nexus 7 tablet adds a back camera and video output with video output being more preferred, then I will change my opinion. For now, it's a glorified dedicated media device that doesn't do as good of a job as Kindle Fire or Nook.

----------

The Nexus 7 isn't trying to be a pure media consumption device any more than iPad. How do you come to this conclusion? iPad has iTunes for Movies, TV and Music and iBooks for books. Android has Play Books, Play Movies, Play Music, Play Magazines.

How is this any different? Is it different because one is an iPad and one isn't? What are you even talking about?

Also, how is the iPad a "full featured" tablet? I can't even get access to the file system or do basic things like set default apps.

Does this stuff that you come up with make sense to you when it's rattling around in your head?

You seem to think full feature tablet means full featured OS which iOS is not. There is not as much content on Play as there is on iTunes or Amazon. The main problem I have with it is no output port.

SlCKB0Y
Nov 15, 2012, 07:55 PM
NFC is more useless than a camera. Although GPS is more useful than either camera or NFC.

Yea, I know GPS is more useful. And in your initial "unbiased" comparison between the Nexus 7 and iPad mini, you went on at length about what a downfall it was that the Nexus 7 didn't have a rear facing camera, but you didn't even mention that the Nexus 7 has GPS (which by your own later admission is a more useful feature).

How is this unbiased? You compared the two and when you felt the Nexus was better in some way, you just purposefully didn't mention it. Then you have a gall to become indignant when I accused you of bias towards the iPad.

----------


You seem to think full feature tablet means full featured OS which iOS is not. There is not as much content on Play as there is on iTunes or Amazon. The main problem I have with it is no output port.

You've drawn a distinction between two types of tablets. Those that are "full featured" and those that are primarily content focused. I know this because in your last post you said the Nexus 7 was trying to be both these things and failing to be a "jack of all trades". Now you are telling me that "full featured" actually means content focused?

You're changing your story with every post you make. Please, at least pick a cohesive, consistent line of discussion.

Just to remind you of you initial "unbiased" comparison:

The Nexus 7 performs quite poorly compared to iPad mini. It's got no camera on the back, the front one is low resolution. It's made of plastic and build quality is craptastic. The main drawback is no video out of any kind. I'd have to reply on Google's wireless features which are poor at best at the moment. Let's not forget that basically every single "tablet" app on Google's ecosystem is basically a blown up smartphone app. It's a poor use of what is already a pretty poor bit of screen real estate. But hey, you get what you pay for. If you buy an Android device, it's obviously inferior to an Apple device. Whatever floats your boat, go for it. The rest of us don't care.

SnowLeopard2008
Nov 15, 2012, 08:28 PM
Yea, I know GPS is more useful. And in your initial "unbiased" comparison between the Nexus 7 and iPad mini, you went on at length about what a downfall it was that the Nexus 7 didn't have a rear facing camera, but you didn't even mention that the Nexus 7 has GPS (which by your own later admission is a more useful feature).

How is this unbiased? You compared the two and when you felt the Nexus was better in some way, you just purposefully didn't mention it. Then you have a gall to become indignant when I accused you of bias towards the iPad.

----------



You've drawn a distinction between two types of tablets. Those that are "full featured" and those that are primarily content focused. I know this because in your last post you said the Nexus 7 was trying to be both these things and failing to be a "jack of all trades". Now you are telling me that "full featured" actually means content focused?

You're changing your story with every post you make. Please, at least pick a cohesive, consistent line of discussion.

Just to remind you of you initial "unbiased" comparison:

There are lots of features that I think are useful on both platforms that I didn't mention. Android is customizable. That's useful in certain cases. iOS devices have a home button which is useful and better than taking screen space like on Android. I can go on and on. Saying I admitted GPS is useful implies I said otherwise before. The Nexus is cheaper but can't do some tasks that the more expensive iPad mini can. That's obvious. But what makes it better than iPad? Cheap price? Yes but there are trade offs. Maybe it doesn't matter to you but it's worth noting.

Saturn1217
Nov 15, 2012, 09:07 PM
I think this whole value thing is kind of silly. $200-$250 isn't equal to zero dollars. It is still an investment. And if you really (I mean can't pay the bills kind of really) can't afford the $329 minbut that is what YOU want then you should save up rather than spending almost as much for something you don't want.

I am typing this from a Nexus 7 BTW. In my opinion price isn't what you should be considering. Instead consider ecosystem ui design etc. Basically figure out what features you want. For me I chose the nexus 7 because I like android and the nexus 7 ui doesn't make me have to deal with tiny fonts which for me personally is a deal breaker. But if someone would be happiest with an iPad mini then I don't think it makes sense to only spend $199 on a tablet they don't want. Just my 2 cents :-)

MacRumorUser
Nov 16, 2012, 04:57 AM
So is your post :p

And that comment isn't ?


Oh no, I think we've ended into a 'redundant perpetual vortex' started by the OP's original inane post... ;) :p

SlCKB0Y
Nov 16, 2012, 07:33 AM
Oh no, I think we've ended into a 'redundant perpetual vortex'

Keep it up buddy...you're gonna break the interwebs... :D

jsw
Nov 16, 2012, 07:41 AM
But what makes it better than iPad? Cheap price? Yes but there are trade offs. Maybe it doesn't matter to you but it's worth noting.
I agree, and it's not that I don't like the Mini, and for all I know, I'll end up with one as well, although I've really come to like the plastic-backed tablets due to their better innate comfort.

But the fact that it is cheaper - I mean, look, a 32GB cellular model is still $30 less than the 16GB WiFi iPad Mini - is a huge deal (provided it does what you want, granted).

If I needed yet another iOS device, or if I had no such devices, the iPad Mini would be worth the price to me. With all my various devices, I don't need another one from Apple right now, so the facts the N7 does all I want, costs less, and does things I can't do in iOS make it compelling to me.

But yes, there are equally good reasons to get the Mini. The only important thing is that people be happy with the device(s) they choose, and, lucky for use, there's a metric crapload of relatively cheap devices that are all pretty damned amazing given where things were even a few years ago.

MF878
Nov 17, 2012, 03:41 AM
It makes sense for Apple to call for more, because they actually want to profit off the hardware, although, I do think starting it at $299 instead of $329 would've been wise because it breaks into that sub-$300 category and makes the gap look a lot smaller in the customer's mind. However, this would've cut into Apple's profit margin that is already smaller than normal with the mini. I wonder if they'll manage it in a generation or two...

pizz
Nov 18, 2012, 08:40 AM
So ended up getting a nexus 7 and I like it. Well built, fast, jellybean is slick, display is right up with retina. Does everything I would use a mini tablet for. Really u cant go wrong for $199! One gripe i have is no rear camera but there are workarounds, u can use front camera for quick videos and pics if u need. Only thing iPad mini has over it right now is the app selection and screen size.

cynics
Nov 18, 2012, 09:39 AM
The Nexus 7 performs quite poorly compared to iPad mini. It's got no camera on the back, the front one is low resolution. It's made of plastic and build quality is craptastic. The main drawback is no video out of any kind. I'd have to reply on Google's wireless features which are poor at best at the moment. Let's not forget that basically every single "tablet" app on Google's ecosystem is basically a blown up smartphone app. It's a poor use of what is already a pretty poor bit of screen real estate. But hey, you get what you pay for. If you buy an Android device, it's obviously inferior to an Apple device. Whatever floats your boat, go for it. The rest of us don't care.

The cameras are similar and the N7 can be unlocked for 720p recording. 4.2 introduced miracast mirroring which is an HDMI cable minus the cable. Soon we will be plugging appletv into miracast enabled HDTV's since its now an industry standard. Apple convinces everyone they need an app for every web page, guess what? Apps are designed to condense a web page to a mobile phone size screen, use the non watered down web page instead of a web based app. That alone will cure 90% of your "tablet app issue"...

Btw 50% of Apple products cost is profit margin. I do sales, if I got 50% profit then I just ripped someone off...literally. That's something a shady salesman would do to a little old lady. Just because it cost more doesn't mean its better....Look at the crappy screen! My Xoom has a screen like that! Lol

I only buy subsidized iPhones so the carrier eats the cost and the mini seems something they through together as an answer to the Nexus 7. I'll be more curious about the iPad mini 2, maybe it will have the current technology if it has a premium price tag.

cynics
Nov 18, 2012, 10:14 AM
Lol the rear camera on an iPad is useless. I took maybe two pictures with my iPad 2 and 0 with my 3. I MIGHT use it more if it had a FLASH, seriously what is up with that. I don't think you'll ever see an android tablet with a rear camera and no flash with it. Its such a dumb pro for an iPad it shouldn't even be mentioned.

PracticalMac
Nov 19, 2012, 12:26 PM
business class versus luxury class

that's why you pay extra for the good stuff

Android, business class? You are joking, right?

I do agree the mini is over priced.