Gay support for Katrina relief grows

[leekohler]

Both of these articles made me proud. Nobody sticks together like we do.

http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?date=2005/09/13/1

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid20590.asp

[gwuMACaddict]

glad to hear that everyone is getting together to help

i'm sure lots of groups have banded together over this issue though, not just gays

[leekohler]

glad to hear that everyone is getting together to help

i'm sure lots of groups have banded together over this issue though, not just gays

Yes- it says so in the second article. Many groups are mentioned. This just reminded me of what it was like back in the 80's when AIDS hit. We had to take care of each other- no one else would. We came together like nothing I've ever seen.

[ham_man]

Not to say this isn't good, but what if there were a straight only group helping only the straight victims of Katrina? Wouldn't there be a massive uproar?

[feakbeak]

Not to say this isn't good, but what if there were a straight only group helping only the straight victims of Katrina? Wouldn't there be a massive uproar?I agree, I can see how it may seem silly that an organized group of gays comes out and says "we feel bad about Katrina, we want to help". However, it is all well-intentioned. Any organized group does this thing, there is some huge tragedy and they want their group to do something to show support. It's a good thing, just seems odd when you take it in the literal context of a headline - "Gays help hurricane victims"

[pseudobrit]

Not to say this isn't good, but what if there were a straight only group helping only the straight victims of Katrina? Wouldn't there be a massive uproar?

Yes. But this is a gay group helping all the victims. So what's your point?

[skunk]

Yes. But this is a gay group helping all the victims.From the articles, that's not entirely clear.

[mactastic]

Hey, nothing wrong with jovial support of hurricane victims...
;)

[leekohler]

I agree, I can see how it may seem silly that an organized group of gays comes out and says "we feel bad about Katrina, we want to help". However, it is all well-intentioned. Any organized group does this thing, there is some huge tragedy and they want their group to do something to show support. It's a good thing, just seems odd when you take it in the literal context of a headline - "Gays help hurricane victims"

I guess my point in posting this was to show that we homos aren't the selfish hedonists people think we are. In the past, that arguement has been used to further others' agendas against us.

[iBlue]

Not to say this isn't good, but what if there were a straight only group helping only the straight victims of Katrina? Wouldn't there be a massive uproar?

straight people do not necessarily need to have that sort of unity because they are not as discriminated against as the gay community. any possible discriminated group may need to stick together to help one another out, because there's the times when they're turned away or scorned for being who they are. help just may not be as readily available.
(i mean this in general, it can be applied to race, religion, sexual orientation, etc)

but there were already points made on the why's... just wanted to throw this aspect into the mix

[Lyle]

Nobody sticks together like we do.Too much information.

[katchow]

i dunno, some of the article makes it sound as if everyone is trying to help their "own". I understand the need for a strong communal feeling among minorities but when it comes to charity (for a disaster of this sort) it doesn't seem right to be preferential.

"We are changing how the world sees LGBT people," reads RWF's Web site.

but its really just about giving, right?

sorry, i don't mean to sound like i'm complaining. Bits of it just strike me as odd.

[iBlue]

i dunno, some of the article makes it sound as if everyone is trying to help their "own". I understand the need for a strong communal feeling among minorities but when it comes to charity (for a disaster of this sort) it doesn't seem right to be preferential.


i can see how it might appear "not right" from the surface, but that's why i said what i did. since preferential treatment AGAINST the gay community is a big reality, the need to help their own is a bit more prominent. know what i mean?

[Lyle]

... preferential treatment AGAINST the gay community is a big reality, the need to help their own is a bit more prominent...Are there documented cases where Hurricane Katrina survivors who are gay have been denied help?

[katchow]

i can see how it might appear "not right" from the surface, but that's why i said what i did. since preferential treatment AGAINST the gay community is a big reality, the need to help their own is a bit more prominent. know what i mean?

i can appreciate what you're saying. i'm just thinking that in this case, the damage caused by Katrina was indiscriminate, why draw the "us and them" lines?

[ham_man]

While we are on the subject of "discrimination", is it really true that only white males under 40 cannot be *legally* discriminated against?

[highres]

Who cares? Doesn't matter to me what creed, ethnicity, nationality or sexual preference the donors have as long as they do something to help the people in need.

[pseudobrit]

While we are on the subject of "discrimination", is it really true that only white males under 40 cannot be *legally* discriminated against?

No. The young, professional white males are the most oppressed segment of society.

[ham_man]

No. The young, professional white males are the most oppressed segment of society.
Yea...I was just wondering whether that was true, cause it is discrimination in itself. No need to be a smart a**...

[pseudobrit]

Yea...I was just wondering whether that was true, cause it is discrimination in itself.

Woe is me, the white male who is given more opportunities than any other demographic, because people recognise this distinction and discriminate (but obviously not against me) based on it.

[skunk]

Yea...I was just wondering whether that was true, cause it is discrimination in itself. No need to be a smart a**...They can still be discriminated against on grounds of sexual orientation, religion and disability.

[leekohler]

Are there documented cases where Hurricane Katrina survivors who are gay have been denied help?

It'll happen. The law won't allow for any recognition of gay couples when the rebuilding cash is doled out. Happened after 911 too. If there is one surviving member of a couple, there will also be benefits he/she is denied.

[Chip NoVaMac]

It'll happen. The law won't allow for any recognition of gay couples when the rebuilding cash is doled out. Happened after 911 too. If there is one surviving member of a couple, there will also be benefits he/she is denied.

And even when an organization is willing to help a Gay/Lesbian couple, these people are made to jump through hoops since "marriage" of same sex couples is not legal.

I gave to the Red Cross as the lesser of all evils. Though I would give more to an organization that would give to a "group" that I felt will fall between the cracks...

[mactastic]

No. The young, professional white males are the most oppressed segment of society.
Particularly if they go around wishing people Merry Christmas. Those are the most oppressed of all.

[jessica.]

I guess my point in posting this was to show that we homos aren't the selfish hedonists people think we are. In the past, that arguement has been used to further others' agendas against us.

This is your own personal opinions of what "straight" people think of you. There is no fact to back up your personal statement thus making it really just your own demons coming out when you're trying to justify why you'd even bother posting about how gays are banning together to help victims. Who cares about their sexual orientation? What should be noted is that there are people helping the victims, straight or gay.

While you said that you're just showing us that gays aren't the "selfish hedonists people" we think they are, you're also saying that straight people are uneducated and uncaring fools that would stoop to such a level to single out a group of people and making piss-poor acquisitions about them. Thanks for making the Katrina disaster a little more political. Well done.

[pseudobrit]

straight people are uneducated and uncaring fools that would stoop to such a level to single out a group of people and making piss-poor acquisitions about them.

Yes.

[highres]

What purpose does it serve to separate or differentiate a group of people based on their sexual preferences from the rest of the people helping the victims of Katrina? That is just as idiotic as saying, "See black people are helping out with Katrina too, they are not all just lazy, gang-banging, welfare recipients".

In addition stating that "straight" people think gays are "hedonists" is stereotypical and a generalization. Spreading stereotypes and misinformation serves no one.

[pseudobrit]

"straight" people think gays are "hedonists"

Yes.

[Chip NoVaMac]

What purpose does it serve to separate or differentiate a group of people based on their sexual preferences from the rest of the people helping the victims of Katrina? That is just as idiotic as saying, "See black people are helping out with Katrina too, they are not all just lazy, gang-banging, welfare recipients".

In addition stating that "straight" people think gays are "hedonists" is stereotypical and a generalization. Spreading stereotypes and misinformation serves no one.

For me, it is about getting funding to certain needs that need to be met, and may not be met via normal relief channels. Case in point are the needs of animal rescue leagues helping out our four legged friends.

Normal channels may put up road blocks to Gays and Lesbians, particularly for couples since they do not have the legal right to marry - hence lack the protections of the law in seeking aid.

[highres]

I guess my point in posting this was to show that we homos aren't the selfish hedonists people think we are. In the past, that arguement has been used to further others' agendas against us.

My reply was to the statement above. Just one question, have there been any instances yet where gay or lesbian couples have been descriminated against, singled out or denied funds in the aftermath of Katrina? Just curious if funds have been denied to a legally married gay couple in N.O. yet.

To me the issue is whether Louisiana or Mississippi recognizes gay marriage, and if so then they should have the rights of a married couple and should be eligible for hurricane aid. Whether or not LA has made gay marriage legal or not is another issue to be decided by the people and voters.

Personally I think that if anybody wants to get married they should be able to, however if illegally "married" gay couples in NO are trying to claim funds through FEMA and are being denied you can't claim that the person, clerk or relief agency directors are denying funds is descriminating, their policies are dictated by state and federal law and they really have no choice in the matter.

[leekohler]

My reply was to the statement above. Just one question, have there been any instances yet where gay or lesbian couples have been descriminated against, singled out or denied funds in the aftermath of Katrina? Just curious if funds have been denied to a legally married gay couple in N.O. yet.

To me the issue is whether Louisiana or Mississippi recognizes gay marriage, and if so then they should have the rights of a married couple and should be eligible for hurricane aid. Whether or not LA has made gay marriage legal or not is another issue to be decided by the people and voters.

Personally I think that if anybody wants to get married they should be able to, however if illegally "married" gay couples in NO are trying to claim funds through FEMA and are being denied you can't claim that the person, clerk or relief agency directors are denying funds is descriminating, their policies are dictated by state and federal law and they really have no choice in the matter.

So we should just sit back and take it? Oh OK. By the way, I'd love to see your reaction if someone decided to vote whether or not you should have certain rights. Maybe we should deny Christians the right to marriage because they're close-minded and raise close-minded kids. Sound silly? Hell yeah. The people should NEVER be allowed to decide on the rights of others.

And just because FEMA can discriminate legally, doesn't mean it's not discrimination.

[leekohler]

This is your own personal opinions of what "straight" people think of you. There is no fact to back up your personal statement thus making it really just your own demons coming out when you're trying to justify why you'd even bother posting about how gays are banning together to help victims. Who cares about their sexual orientation? What should be noted is that there are people helping the victims, straight or gay.

While you said that you're just showing us that gays aren't the "selfish hedonists people" we think they are, you're also saying that straight people are uneducated and uncaring fools that would stoop to such a level to single out a group of people and making piss-poor acquisitions about them. Thanks for making the Katrina disaster a little more political. Well done.

Do you seriously live in reality? Oh- so no straight people discriminate against gays? Are you really trying to tell me that?? Do you watch the news or read the paper? And "selfish hedonist" arguement has been used MANY times in the past to characterize us.

[Chip NoVaMac]

So we should just sit back and take it? Oh OK. By the way, I'd love to see your reaction if someone decided to vote whether or not you should have certain rights. Maybe we should deny Christians the right to marriage because they're close minded and raise close minded kids. Sound silly, hell yeah.

And just vecause FEMA can discriminate legally, doesn't mean it's not discrimination.

Much like if we allowed people to vote on equal rights for African-Americans, they would still be drinking from separate but equal water fountains, and riding in the back of the bus. And forget about inter-racial marriages!

In the US, the federal laws are to be applied equally. The full faith and credit provisions are there to protect people as they go from state to state.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Do you seriously live in reality? Oh- so no straight people discriminate against gays? Are you really trying to tell me that?? Do you watch the news or read the paper? And "selfish hedonist" arguement has been used MANY times in the past to characterize us.

A more persuasive argument would be the Gay and Lesbian couples that had to fight to get the benefits that wee given to "married" folk after 9-11.

If anything people like myself are tired of giving to relief efforts, only to have our own "people" having to fight to get a fair share of the pie.

[feakbeak]

Chip NoVaMac, you make some good points. I hadn't thought about it that way. Thanks for some insights.

[leekohler]

Chip NoVaMac, you make some good points. I had thought about it that way. Thanks for some insights.

Well- I hope things are a bit more clear for eveybody else too.

[ham_man]

So we should just sit back and take it? Oh OK. By the way, I'd love to see your reaction if someone decided to vote whether or not you should have certain rights. Maybe we should deny Christians the right to marriage because they're close-minded and raise close-minded kids. Sound silly? Hell yeah.
Do you really want to get into this again...?

[highres]

So we should just sit back and take it? Oh OK. By the way, I'd love to see your reaction if someone decided to vote whether or not you should have certain rights. Maybe we should deny Christians the right to marriage because they're close-minded and raise close-minded kids. Sound silly? Hell yeah. The people should NEVER be allowed to decide on the rights of others.

And just because FEMA can discriminate legally, doesn't mean it's not discrimination.

You didn't answer my question, I asked has their been one known instance of a gay couple being refused Katrina disaster relief? Also sit back and take what? Has any gay couple been descriminated against after Katrina? If so please post a link. If the voters and people shouldn't decide or vote on matters pertaining to individual rights, then who should?

I'd love to see your reaction if someone decided to vote whether or not you should have certain rights.

Also "people" and government representatives vote on issues that concern my rights every day, my rights to free speech, my rights to personal privacy, my rights to clean air, my right to drink alcohol, my right get married by a certain age, my right to decide who I want to represent me in the office of the President, I'm not sure what utopian society you are living in, but people vote and make decisions that effect our rights every day. Many times I disagree with the results and voice my dissent, but that is part of living in the United States and in a democracy.

The people should NEVER be allowed to decide on the rights of others.


My question then is how should these issues be decided? By some great power in the sky?

What country and system of government do you live under? How should these issues be decided? Love it or hate it, no matter how out of whack it is or how much I disagree with certain policies, it's called a democracy and a system of law.

Also you have no idea what my political, ethical or social beliefs are, so please don't turn this into a gay vs. hetero/conservative argument. I simply think it was unnecessary to separate or give special attention to gay people from everyone else that is providing help and aid to the victims of Katrina.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Do you really want to get into this again...?

While lee's comments may have been more "reactionary"; I could not fail in noticing the lack of comment to two of my posts that questioned just who and and under what circumstance do we give our tax dollars to.

In the end both of you are playing games with each other while others that need the care are being ignored. All for political gain.

I will still point to FDR's New Deal as model, unless someone can show that it was a totally partisan effort on FDR's part.

[Chip NoVaMac]

You didn't answer my question, I asked has their been one known instance of a gay couple being refused Katrina disaster relief? Also sit back and take what? Has any gay couple been descriminated against after Katrina? If so please post a link. If the voters and people shouldn't decide or vote on matters pertaining to individual rights, then who should?

To be honest it was not till months after 9-11 that we learned or heard of discrimination against Gay and Lesbian couples.

Federal relief aid is also done based on the laws that are in place. It does not mater if the popular opinion says one thing, but it is what the law requires.

In the case of 9-11, there was some bending of the law. But Gay and Lesbian couples were held to a higher standard than "married" couples. As did Straight couples that saw no reason that the government should enter into the private affairs between tow consenting adults.

Also "people" and government representatives vote on issues that concern my rights every day, my rights to free speech, my rights to personal privacy, my rights to clean air, my right to drink alcohol, my right get married by a certain age, my right to decide who I want to represent me in the office of the President, I'm not sure what utopian society you are living in, but people vote and make decisions that effect our rights every day. Many times I disagree with the results and voice my dissent, but that is part of living in the United States and in a democracy.

How people vote is one thing, but it is up to our "activist" courts to decide whether they pass muster with what the law and out Founding Fathers had in mind.

The following is not directed at you personally. I find it hypocritical by some of the religious "right" that want certain "rights" to be up held - while ignoring what the "Good Book" says as to how they should treat others.




My question then is how should these issues be decided? By some great power in the sky?

What country and system of government do you live under? How should these issues be decided? Love it or hate it, no matter how out of whack it is or how much I disagree with certain policies, it's called a democracy and a system of law.

Also you have no idea what my political, ethical or social beliefs are, so please don't turn this into a gay vs. hetero/conservative argument. I simply think it was unnecessary to separate or give special attention to gay people from everyone else that is providing help and aid to the victims of Katrina.[/QUOTE]

[highres]

You make a couple of good points:

I am in no way saying that gay couples are not being descriminated against, because I am sure they are everyday. Being born and raised in San Francisco, CA, a city that is fairly forward thinking and progressive concerning gay rights, and growing up with gay couples who were personal friends of mine and my family. I like to think I have a pretty openminded and somewhat enlightened view on my fellow gay men and women and that they should be able to marry whom-the-hell-ever they wish and that it should be their right to choose their partner.

In my posts above I was reacting to Lee's singling out of gay people for special recognition for their help with Katrina which to me seems unnecessary and that he is generalizing and stereotyping "straight" people by making the statement:

I guess my point in posting this was to show that we homos aren't the selfish hedonists people think we are. In the past, that arguement has been used to further others' agendas against us."

without backing it up, or supplying even a shred of info, quote or link showing how the argument that gay people are "selfish hedonists" has been used against them.

I agree completely that we are in a far right neo-con environment in regards to our higher courts that are setting policy, I disagree vehemently with many of the Supreme Courts decisions, starting with the decision to help Bush legislate himself into office in the election against Gore, the list is endless, so don't get me started.

The following is not directed at you personally. I find it hypocritical by some of the religious "right" that want certain "rights" to be up held - while ignoring what the "Good Book" says as to how they should treat others.

I know you weren't directing this at me, but don't even put me and the terms "religious right" and the "Good Book" in the same post. My personal beliefs are the furthest away from those ideologies as is humanly possible. My views on religion, politics and personal rights have been posted ad nauseum in other threads.

[mactastic]

Lol... I'd love to see the fireworks ensue if someone posted a religious charity that they were proud of for doing something about Katrina and people started in on 'Well why do you have to make such a big deal about them being Christians? Just say they were helping people, not what their [insert perceived difference here] is. I mean, are there documented cases of Christians being denied aid because they're Christian? It sounds like they're just trying to help their own."

The responses would be interesting I'm sure...
:p

[leekohler]

You make a couple of good points:

I am in no way saying that gay couples are not being descriminated against, because I am sure they are everyday. Being born and raised in San Francisco, CA, a city that is fairly forward thinking and progressive concerning gay rights, and growing up with gay couples who were personal friends of mine and my family. I like to think I have a pretty openminded and somewhat enlightened view on my fellow gay men and women and that they should be able to marry whom-the-hell-ever they wish and that it should be their right to choose their partner.

In my posts above I was reacting to Lee's singling out of gay people for special recognition for their help with Katrina which to me seems unnecessary and that he is generalizing and stereotyping "straight" people by making the statement:



without backing it up, or supplying even a shred of info, quote or link showing how the argument that gay people are "selfish hedonists" has been used against them.


Gee- I don't know. Ever hear Alan Keyes speak? This fun little tidbit was tossed about in the last election. And I didn't mean to say ALL straight people discriminate. But enough do. Doesn't feel so great to be stereotyped, does it? There's your link.

http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2004/09/01/1

[leekohler]

To be honest it was not till months after 9-11 that we learned or heard of discrimination against Gay and Lesbian couples.

Federal relief aid is also done based on the laws that are in place. It does not mater if the popular opinion says one thing, but it is what the law requires.

In the case of 9-11, there was some bending of the law. But Gay and Lesbian couples were held to a higher standard than "married" couples. As did Straight couples that saw no reason that the government should enter into the private affairs between tow consenting adults.



How people vote is one thing, but it is up to our "activist" courts to decide whether they pass muster with what the law and out Founding Fathers had in mind.

The following is not directed at you personally. I find it hypocritical by some of the religious "right" that want certain "rights" to be up held - while ignoring what the "Good Book" says as to how they should treat others.




My question then is how should these issues be decided? By some great power in the sky?

What country and system of government do you live under? How should these issues be decided? Love it or hate it, no matter how out of whack it is or how much I disagree with certain policies, it's called a democracy and a system of law.

Also you have no idea what my political, ethical or social beliefs are, so please don't turn this into a gay vs. hetero/conservative argument. I simply think it was unnecessary to separate or give special attention to gay people from everyone else that is providing help and aid to the victims of Katrina.[/QUOTE]

It should be decided in the courts, just like during the civil rights movenment for blacks. People didn't vote to give blacks rights. They had to fight for them in the courts.

[leekohler]

Lol... I'd love to see the fireworks ensue if someone posted a religious charity that they were proud of for doing something about Katrina and people started in on 'Well why do you have to make such a big deal about them being Christians? Just say they were helping people, not what their [insert perceived difference here] is. I mean, are there documented cases of Christians being denied aid because they're Christian? It sounds like they're just trying to help their own."

The responses would be interesting I'm sure...
:p

And you know what? I can't believe how this thread has gone down the toilet. Honestly, I didn't mean to make people angry. It was just supposed to be a nice pat on the back, you know? Now all of a sudden, I think all straight people are jerks? Give me a break.