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MacRumors
Nov 21, 2012, 10:55 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/21/os-x-10-6-snow-leopard-again-available-on-the-apple-online-store/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/11/NewImage30.pngApple is once again selling OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard (http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC573/mac-os-x-106-snow-leopard) on the Apple Online Store for $19.99. The return was noticed by (http://www.macg.co/news/voir/257912/snow-leopard-a-18-sur-l-apple-store) the French site MacGeneration. Apple had pulled Snow Leopard from its site after Mountain Lion (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1412135) was released earlier this year.

This is significant because Snow Leopard is required to run the more recent versions of iTunes that newer iOS devices require, and it is also the last OS X operating system that could only be purchased on physical media.

For users who want to upgrade from Leopard to Lion, they need to purchase Snow Leopard in order to gain access to the Mac App Store.

Article Link: OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard Again Available on the Apple Online Store (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/21/os-x-10-6-snow-leopard-again-available-on-the-apple-online-store/)



wikus
Nov 21, 2012, 10:59 AM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

kirky29
Nov 21, 2012, 10:59 AM
Didn't see this coming!

AQUADock
Nov 21, 2012, 10:59 AM
So does this mean that iTunes 11 will run on SL?

Macman45
Nov 21, 2012, 10:59 AM
I think it has a lot more to do with the upgrade path rather than a nod from Apple. They want users to progress, and in order to do it, SL is required. It still doesn't get away from the fact that making software download only isolates many on slow Internet connection speeds though.

RoelJuun
Nov 21, 2012, 10:59 AM
Please add the drivers for current hardware Apple.

pancakedrawer
Nov 21, 2012, 11:00 AM
This was easily the best update of OSX in a long time. It improved stability and back end operations significantly without messing around with gimmicky iOS apps marketed as 'features'

Macrolido
Nov 21, 2012, 11:02 AM
Best version of OS X ever. I hope iTunes 11 will be compatible with SL.

Skika
Nov 21, 2012, 11:06 AM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

Forever on SL is what you will be.

ML > SL

Tankmaze
Nov 21, 2012, 11:08 AM
the minimum OS to download ML. but 10.6.8 is stable as a rock, if sl would support icloud I would stay with sl.

cambookpro
Nov 21, 2012, 11:08 AM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

I get Exposé, but seriously, what's wrong with Versions? I've recovered many documents and unwanted changes with it. A great feature.

Porco
Nov 21, 2012, 11:10 AM
Good times. Mountain Lion fixed a lot of what I hated in Lion, but I still liked both Leopards better than either of the Lions.

I'd really love to see more emphasis on the mac side for 10.9 instead of making it more iOS like. It's time for iOS to get more mac like instead of the other way round. Hopefully the recent changes at Apple make this more likely.

True story, as I was writing this I was listening to a song called 'Carnival' by Kevin Devine - some lyrics:

#'Cos I tamed a lion once I stole his roar
I stripped his pride away but he found more
So now he's out to take what's his and shove my future in my face
Scare me back in my place
So soon so soon you've got it beat 'til it eats you

Seemed apt somehow! :)

karmakat
Nov 21, 2012, 11:16 AM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process.…

Yes! That's how I feel as well. In fact, I tried to upgrade my 5-year-old iMac with 4GB RAM and 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo and it brought it to its knees. I had to downgrade back to Snow Leopard and let me tell you, that was a 2-week e-mail reverse conversion nightmare.

Yes I want a new iMac, but the cash is just not coming in to cover one. (Dream: I can't imagine how fast a new iMac would be if you loaded with SL.)

I do love some of the improvements in Lion/Mountain Lion and wish I could have them, but the performance tradeoff makes it unappealing at best for now. I hope 10.9 fixes that. Who knows, when I finally get a new iMac, perhaps I won't care since the performance will be fine again, I hope.

skellener
Nov 21, 2012, 11:18 AM
I just installed Mountain Lion the other day straight from Snow Leopard. While at first I really didn't care much for Mountain Lion - once I turned OFF the iCloud junk, it now seems pretty good.

I was on Snow Leopard for a long, long time. After the fiasco that was Leopard - I decided to skip Lion. Just like Leopard - it seemed half-baked. Everyone here is correct. Snow Leopard is a fantastic OS. They still use it at my work. No issues with it at all. But Mountain Lion seems to be a bit snappier. I do like that. This is on an old 2008 iMac.

The only thing that kills me is how outdated Apple Mail seems. It still doesn't even archive mail properly when using it IMAP Gmail. I'll keep using Sparrow until it breaks. Apple should have purchased Sparrow and the guys who made it a long time ago - but now Google owns it and them. Maybe with Jonny Ive in charge now - we'll see a big improvement in Mail.

Simplicated
Nov 21, 2012, 11:19 AM
Forever on SL is what you will be.

ML > SL

Thank you for your elaborate proof. I am totally convinced that ML > SL.

Zaren
Nov 21, 2012, 11:19 AM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

I agree on the creeping featuritis of 10.7 and 10.8, but if you want to talk about "best OS", you'll have to do a lot of work to get me to turn away from System 7 :)

The Bulge
Nov 21, 2012, 11:32 AM
Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process.


Where's your proof?


Also, get rid of versions.

It's a useful feature where before there was none. Saved me more than once.

All in all ignorant and baseless post.

Sacird
Nov 21, 2012, 11:34 AM
Apple you are sooo stuck in the past selling optical. :p

Serious note: I found that SL was the best overall OS they had and wish they were just now getting ready to release a new one instead of this iDevice OS yearly release cycle. Should at least be getting 5 year support on the OS's especially for machines that almost all are over 1k.

iMacFarlane
Nov 21, 2012, 11:35 AM
Ah, Snow Leopard. You were there to help me across the river when I decided to come over from the Windows side. You showed me how a well written OS can put the "P" back into PC. You showed me how important customization, gestures, shortcuts, etc. are. You showed me a vast amount of professional and capable software can be integral to an OS, and just be there when I need it without getting in the way. You had backwards compatibility in mind (Rosetta) as you looked to the future.

It took me less than a month to fall in love with the whole "Mac" experience, and shun Windows forever.

Then Lion happened.
Then my 2012 MBP can't connect to my external 1TB drive through USB 3.0.
Then my Apple TV can't connect to my WiFi provider.
Then my iPhone 5 can't connect to my WiFi provider.

Bitter Apple.

bitcloudrzr
Nov 21, 2012, 11:36 AM
Where's your proof?



It's a useful feature where before there was none. Saved me more than once.

All in all ignorant and baseless post.

I always wondered what it would take for all the crazies to come out.

winston1236
Nov 21, 2012, 11:36 AM
Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/21/os-x-10-6-snow-leopard-again-available-on-the-apple-online-store/)


Image (http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/11/NewImage30.png)Apple is once again selling OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard (http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC573/mac-os-x-106-snow-leopard) on the Apple Online Store for $19.99. The return was noticed by (http://www.macg.co/news/voir/257912/snow-leopard-a-18-sur-l-apple-store) the French site MacGeneration. Apple had pulled Snow Leopard from its site after Mountain Lion (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1412135) was released earlier this year.

This is significant because Snow Leopard is required to run the more recent versions of iTunes that newer iOS devices require, and it is also the last OS X operating system that could only be purchased on physical media.

For users who want to upgrade from Leopard to Lion, they need to purchase Snow Leopard in order to gain access to the Mac App Store.

Article Link: OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard Again Available on the Apple Online Store (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/21/os-x-10-6-snow-leopard-again-available-on-the-apple-online-store/)

The return of the last great OS!!

Kaibelf
Nov 21, 2012, 11:40 AM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

That's a riveting story. I'll file that one with the people who said they will never let go of command-line interfaces. If you refuse to buy a copy of a new OS until they go back to an old method (just for YOU), then I guess you'll be on your current OS for quite a while. Happy Thanksgiving!

wikus
Nov 21, 2012, 11:40 AM
Where's your proof?



It's a useful feature where before there was none. Saved me more than once.

All in all ignorant and baseless post.

Ignorant and baseless? Yeah, not like me having worked on Snow Leopard for 3 years has anything to be experienced with or have any basis of my dislikes for the gimping of 10.7 and 10.8.

Thank you, for that wonderful and well thought out response, I'm now convinced that I'm wrong.

capoeirista
Nov 21, 2012, 11:42 AM
Snow Leopard is a great OS (although Tiger is my favourite) - absolutely rock solid. I resisted Lion (thankfully), but have been half-considering Mountain Lion...

otherjobs
Nov 21, 2012, 11:43 AM
The return of the last great OS!!

http://macdailynews.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/090527_jobs_king.jpg

kingtj
Nov 21, 2012, 11:45 AM
You've just resigned yourself to living in the past then, as did so many of the old MacOS users when OS X was first released.

The "iPadification process" is all part of the big picture, because like it or not, the future of computing is about users working with both full-blown computer systems and portable devices like the iPad or a smartphone, and expecting an increasing level of integration between them. (Thanks, Mountain Lion, for finally unifying the Tasks and Notes so they're actually useful for me! If I'm at my Mac and want to type up a quick grocery list, I can do it and know that it's going to appear on my iPhone in my coat pocket that I'll take to the store with me. That's the type of functionality we expect these days.)


10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

AnonMac50
Nov 21, 2012, 11:47 AM
Long Live Snow Leopard :D:D:cool:

wikus
Nov 21, 2012, 11:50 AM
You've just resigned yourself to living in the past then, as did so many of the old MacOS users when OS X was first released.

The "iPadification process" is all part of the big picture, because like it or not, the future of computing is about users working with both full-blown computer systems and portable devices like the iPad or a smartphone, and expecting an increasing level of integration between them. (Thanks, Mountain Lion, for finally unifying the Tasks and Notes so they're actually useful for me! If I'm at my Mac and want to type up a quick grocery list, I can do it and know that it's going to appear on my iPhone in my coat pocket that I'll take to the store with me. That's the type of functionality we expect these days.)

I wouldn't call anything non-mobile from Apple a 'full blown computer' seeing how that term could only be relevant to the Mac Pro line which it in itself has been a complete disaster for the last 4 years, Apple has effectively ignored professionals and catered to the iToy crowd.

Yeah, I get it that its a business and Apple doesnt care about consumers as much as they do about profits, but that doesnt take away from my distaste for their new business model or OS X's progress... for professionals, its been a terrible experience with Apple for the last while.

Lancetx
Nov 21, 2012, 11:52 AM
What I'd like to know (or see confirmed somewhere) is what version of Snow Leopard is on the actual DVD that you get when buying this? Hopefully it is 10.6.8 so that it supports newer Macs than the previous DVD releases I've seen that were all 10.6.3.

NT1440
Nov 21, 2012, 11:57 AM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

My Airdrop use says you're wrong about bloatware. There is a bunch of things are are useless, but along with them are tons of great features I didn't know I needed until they weren't available anymore when using my sisters computer.

I trust Ive to fix the broken interface.

wikus
Nov 21, 2012, 11:59 AM
What I'd like to know (or see confirmed somewhere) is what version of Snow Leopard is on the actual DVD that you get when buying this? Hopefully it is 10.6.8 so that it supports newer Macs than the previous DVD releases I've seen that were all 10.6.3.

This would be awesome actually, I bought a 2011 MacBook Pro that shipped with 10.7 but found it to be a nightmare to work with. I had to get my hands on a 10.6.3 release copy of Snow Leopard specifically for my MacBook Pro... wasn't easy. I wish there were ways to 'downgrade' from 10.8 to 10.6.8 on newer Macs as well.

nuckinfutz
Nov 21, 2012, 12:01 PM
iOSification or iPadification are definition-less complaints with absolutely no foundation in logic.

If we're taking about the x-fication of something shouldn't there be discussion on the impact of such features or ideology?

Routinely the terms are tossed out as some pejorative statement against the newer OS X version without any peer review.

The filesystem is still in OS X. I haven't actually lost any features so iPadification of OS X is likely going to be a surplus of features if anything.

Having OS X 10.6 on the website makes total sense. There are a lot of people that need to be able to upgrade cheaply.

Plus it was sickening to see people on Amazon.com trying to sell their OS X Snow Leopard discs for $200

The Bulge
Nov 21, 2012, 12:02 PM
Ignorant and baseless? Yeah, not like me having worked on Snow Leopard for 3 years has anything to be experienced with or have any basis of my dislikes for the gimping of 10.7 and 10.8.

Thank you, for that wonderful and well thought out response, I'm now convinced that I'm wrong.

Yes. Ignorant and baseless. "and get rid of versions" - how isn't this ignorant. If this feature is of no use for you it by no means is standing in your way of doing things. Just don't use it.

qtx43
Nov 21, 2012, 12:08 PM
What would be nice is if they released Safari 6 for Snow Leopard. If they're going to release new versions every year or so, they need to support more than just the 2 most recent versions. At least iTunes 10 works, though we'll see about version 11.

Lancetx
Nov 21, 2012, 12:09 PM
This would be awesome actually, I bought a 2011 MacBook Pro that shipped with 10.7 but found it to be a nightmare to work with. I had to get my hands on a 10.6.3 release copy of Snow Leopard specifically for my MacBook Pro... wasn't easy. I wish there were ways to 'downgrade' from 10.8 to 10.6.8 on newer Macs as well.

Exactly. I would pick up a copy of this if it's actually 10.6.8 on the disc. That would mean it would support installs directly from the DVD for all 2010 and early 2011 Macs without having to jump through hoops like what you described with your MacBook Pro.

FooMan2011
Nov 21, 2012, 12:10 PM
That's absolutely rediculous. That's like saying I have to buy the 4S before I buy the 5 because I currently own the 3GS.... Capitalism at its best.

Baklava
Nov 21, 2012, 12:13 PM
Snow Leopard, Apple's best OS so far. Period.

gumblecosby
Nov 21, 2012, 12:14 PM
Yes. Ignorant and baseless. "and get rid of versions" - how isn't this ignorant. If this feature is of no use for you it by no means is standing in your way of doing things. Just don't use it.

The problem with ignoring versions is I have to stop using Preview and Textedit. These are 2 programs I use everyday and, along with expose, convinced me to buy a Mac. My problem with versions is not Save As. It's the beachballs it causes when quitting unsaved documents on slower hard drives. Also, it feels slow, the versions interface is limited and is not keyboard friendly. Adapting to new features is easy when they work better than the ones they replaced. This is all subjective of course.

I believe the only reason Apple re-released Snow Leopard was to remove the price gougers. We wont be seeing any further support for it

mrsir2009
Nov 21, 2012, 12:17 PM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

Indeed - All I wanted out of Lion was the fullscreen apps feature, and all I wanted out of Mountain Lion was Messages (which is more like an application rather than an OS feature).

----------


Plus it was sickening to see people on Amazon.com trying to sell their OS X Snow Leopard discs for $200

Them scalpers ain't going to be happy about this :D

truettray
Nov 21, 2012, 12:25 PM
So does this mean I can install Snow Leopard on my 2012 iMac via the App Store? I still use Snow Leopard on my 2008 white Macbook and it's a dream. I like the squared off buttons on Lion, and I love the snowy dock of Mountain Lion but aesthetic enhancements don't make up for crap that is Lion/ML.

Yamcha
Nov 21, 2012, 12:30 PM
I think It's great, but won't it cause some problems & confusion? Assuming that it's not been updated to support new macs..

MDomino
Nov 21, 2012, 12:33 PM
Just installed it, Safari seems a lot snappier.

Oh, wait…

FuNGi
Nov 21, 2012, 12:39 PM
Cool but I still have my original CD in case I want to go backwards with my OS.

Speaking of moving forward. Can someone please inform me why I should move from Lion to Mountain Lion? It seems many on here have a distaste for Lion. It seems fine and stable for me...

MichaelJohnston
Nov 21, 2012, 12:45 PM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

For what it's worth, you CAN bring back the old Exposé in Mountain Lion. System Preferences > Mission Control > uncheck "Group Windows by Application" and you're good.

As for performance issues, they do still exist.

Eithanius
Nov 21, 2012, 01:01 PM
For what it's worth, you CAN bring back the old Exposé in Mountain Lion. System Preferences > Mission Control > uncheck "Group Windows by Application" and you're good.


Expose on Mountain Lion is still ****... They can't even arrange the windows properly. At least Snow Leopard presented them in a grid layout.

Cool but I still have my original CD in case I want to go backwards with my OS.

Speaking of moving forward. Can someone please inform me why I should move from Lion to Mountain Lion? It seems many on here have a distaste for Lion. It seems fine and stable for me...

You have not had an in-depth usage of OS X to experience the ****** works of the ForStalled and the Ferengi... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

HMI
Nov 21, 2012, 01:07 PM
So does this mean that iTunes 11 will run on SL?

The newest iPhone and iPads work on 10.6.8, so I imagine/hope that iTunes 11 would as well.

----------

The problem with ignoring versions is I have to stop using Preview and Textedit. These are 2 programs I use everyday and, along with expose, convinced me to buy a Mac. My problem with versions is not Save As. It's the beachballs it causes when quitting unsaved documents on slower hard drives. Also, it feels slow, the versions interface is limited and is not keyboard friendly. Adapting to new features is easy when they work better than the ones they replaced. This is all subjective of course.

I believe the only reason Apple re-released Snow Leopard was to remove the price gougers. We wont be seeing any further support for it

Another explanation is to retain their iTunes user base when iTunes 11 is released.
The new iPhone/iPads support 10.6.8.

maxwelltech
Nov 21, 2012, 01:10 PM
I don't get why people likes SL so much and thinks that Lion and ML are junk. I love to use Multi-touch gestures on my Mac, it makes things so much easier. I love Mission Control as well, and the ability to add multiple desktops and see all the windows in one flick is just something that I can't do on Windows. Apple is not adding a touch screen to their computers and forcing everybody to use their touch interface or anything. I think that the iOS features are a great addition to the Mac, not a replacement like Windows 8.

dyn
Nov 21, 2012, 01:11 PM
I get Exposé, but seriously, what's wrong with Versions? I've recovered many documents and unwanted changes with it. A great feature.
The fact that it isn't a user controllable option and the fact that it has the same problems as every other version control software out there. Since you can not turn it off it conflicts with people who use their own version control software. You don't want the versioning done in the file, you want it done in the vcs itself where you can have comments and many other features to resolve problems. However, any vcs has problems with large files and especially ones that are binary. They have to save the entire file for each new version which will use up large amounts of diskspace. Since everything is automatic (the user has no say in this at all) it means that the versioning system is controlling your diskspace as well as your versions. Other problems with Versions are the inability to create copies (or clones if you will) easily and properly (aka the "save as" problem).

The Expose argument is an invalid one as of Mountain Lion because that one works exactly like Snow Leopard does. I think the problem in this is Mission Control: it combines Expose with Spaces which some find annoying but most others seem to find a good solution (there is a better overview of the various windows and spaces, very useful if you are looking for something less specific).

Yes. Ignorant and baseless. "and get rid of versions" - how isn't this ignorant. If this feature is of no use for you it by no means is standing in your way of doing things. Just don't use it.
The problem with Versions is that you don't get that choice. If the programmer implemented it you have absolutely no choice but to use it. The user does not decide but Apple and the application do. The only way you can circumvent the use of Versions is by using applications that do not implement it.

Expose on Mountain Lion is still ****... They can't even arrange the windows properly. At least Snow Leopard presented them in a grid layout.

That way of doing it was the number 1 rant on this board when SL came out. Loads of people disliked that way of doing it and they were even going as far as porting the Leopard or Lion Expose version to Snow Leopard.

smirking
Nov 21, 2012, 01:14 PM
Everyone is bracing for the tablet apocalypse, but I guess is a good sign that the desktop environment isn't going extinct... Not that I ever thought it would. I just figure that once everyone got all hot for tablets the trend would rebound at some point to be more balanced when people realized that the old GUI environments had their benefits. Maybe that's happening sooner than I thought it would.

koban4max
Nov 21, 2012, 01:15 PM
Why the hell won't Apple release icloud apps like message and notes via app store? I mean for those who won't move beyond SL.

Eithanius
Nov 21, 2012, 01:16 PM
That way of doing it was the number 1 rant on this board when SL came out. Loads of people disliked that way of doing it and they were even going as far as porting the Leopard or Lion Expose version to Snow Leopard.

True... But take a closer look again... this time Expose on Leopard vs Mountain Lion... You'll see what I mean... :eek:

koban4max
Nov 21, 2012, 01:17 PM
I don't get why people likes SL so much and thinks that Lion and ML are junk. I love to use Multi-touch gestures on my Mac, it makes things so much easier. I love Mission Control as well, and the ability to add multiple desktops and see all the windows in one flick is just something that I can't do on Windows. Apple is not adding a touch screen to their computers and forcing everybody to use their touch interface or anything. I think that the iOS features are a great addition to the Mac, not a replacement like Windows 8.

Have you ever owned SL? If not, don't speak on it.

r.harris1
Nov 21, 2012, 01:21 PM
I wouldn't call anything non-mobile from Apple a 'full blown computer' seeing how that term could only be relevant to the Mac Pro line which it in itself has been a complete disaster for the last 4 years, Apple has effectively ignored professionals and catered to the iToy crowd.

Yeah, I get it that its a business and Apple doesnt care about consumers as much as they do about profits, but that doesnt take away from my distaste for their new business model or OS X's progress... for professionals, its been a terrible experience with Apple for the last while.

"for professionals" - I'm a professional. ML works great at the OS level, my experience across devices is much more consistent (because I have to travel) and the experience continues to improve. For my work (software development), ML continues to exceed my expectations and deliver performance, functionality and usability for all of the different environments I need to work in, including Windows-via-Parallels. My gripes with the OS tend to be around things that OS X has under-delivered on for years - i.e. Corporate integration and a Calendar implementation I'd love to throw across the room. For my play/hobby (Photography / Music) ML also continues to deliver. There's nothing that I did in SL that I can't do now and now there's better integration across my devices. Again, I travel.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and you seem to share the same essential post any time you get the opportunity, to refer to mobile devices as iToys is cute and overused, but also inaccurate. They are exceedingly powerful in the right hands. And combined with a powerful mac of whatever variety, I can personally do more across more environments than I can with Windows or Linux (and I use both every day - from OS X;)).

ML isn't perfect, but neither was SL. ML is also a transitional OS. While Microsoft went to a combined mobile/desktop OS in one go with Windows 8, Apple is taking a more staged approach, but as you and others have pointed out, it is happening and will continue to do so. It only makes sense and is nothing to freak out about. It's a good thing and isn't the end of the world.

Yaboze
Nov 21, 2012, 01:21 PM
I kept 10.6.8 SL on my old 2007 Macbook, still runs great.

wgnoyes
Nov 21, 2012, 01:39 PM
... Also, get rid of versions.
You don't like versions? Turn it off. http://osxdaily.com/2012/07/11/disable-auto-save-and-versions-in-mac-os-x/

ArtOfWarfare
Nov 21, 2012, 01:39 PM
I agree that Mission Control is garbage compared to Expose, but other than that it seems like ML is far better than SL.

Only issue I can think of is Messages... on a regular basis it'll take up 2 GB of RAM, and I only have 3 GB in my computer. Does anyone else have issues with it being a memory hog?

charlituna
Nov 21, 2012, 01:56 PM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

I disagree, I don't see the whole 'ipadification' as such a bad thing. I just don't use it. But to me it doesn't make it bloatware that it's in there.

further, I hated Expose and Space and thought they were a cumbersome mess. And I love Versions.

And I certainly prefer Mountain Lion's iCloud document support over that hot mess that was syncing in Lion.

----------

I wouldn't call anything non-mobile from Apple a 'full blown computer' seeing how that term could only be relevant to the Mac Pro line


So I just edited 20 hours of green screen footage for digital matte compositing (on a major motion picture I'm not at liberty to name) on a "toy" as I was using an iMac and not a Mac Pro to link to my render farm.

Thanks for that heads up.

Different people have different needs and just because they don't need what you think they should have or do what you think they should be doing doesn't make them any less professional or their chosen rigs any less a 'real computer'. Put your ego back in your pants and move on. Use what you want and let the rest of the world do the same.

----------

Why the hell won't Apple release icloud apps like message and notes via app store? I mean for those who won't move beyond SL.

iCloud doesn't work on Snow Leopard.

Apple is only releasing this back into the store in such an easy to order way because of folks potentially getting iPads and iPhones for the holidays. but make no mistake, their intention is that it will be a path for folks to get Mountain Lion to use things like iCloud.

Apple has always been about folks getting to the latest software and hardware as soon as possible. That's why they don't back support any further than they have to. That's why they finally dropped PowerPC support from the OS (to get those folks to move to Intel machines), and so on. It's easier for them to train their support teams when the options are more limited. Which is why they also don't OEM their software to other hardware makers. And don't ever expect that to change because it is the only 'Steve did it' that is likely to stick.

bayxsonic
Nov 21, 2012, 02:04 PM
Just so you know, you can get back the old expose under ML (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-57485222-263/restore-classic-expose-behavior-in-mountain-lion/).

Stella
Nov 21, 2012, 02:11 PM
Where's your proof?



It's a useful feature where before there was none. Saved me more than once.

All in all ignorant and baseless post.

Apple should give the option for versions to be turned off.. even if its a hidden feature. I would have used this looong ago the day I got Lion.

For me, and others, Versions is a PITA.

----------

You don't like versions? Turn it off. http://osxdaily.com/2012/07/11/disable-auto-save-and-versions-in-mac-os-x/

Ah cooool...!

token787
Nov 21, 2012, 02:23 PM
I'm new to this and working with Lion but have Mountain Lion and never installed. Now here comes again SL and now I am wondering to upgrade to Lion or can I downgrade to SL that's in the store? I would love to try something different. :o

sazivad
Nov 21, 2012, 02:32 PM
…bring back Expose to what it used to be.
This (http://i.imgur.com/3M0Kz.png) is pretty close to the original Exposé. You can also still do App Exposé with this (http://i.imgur.com/ufqTW.png).
Also, get rid of versions.
Try this (http://i.imgur.com/44BGU.png).

mdelvecchio
Nov 21, 2012, 02:34 PM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

i love versions. why wouldnt i want to be able to go back in time w/ my docs?

and i also really enjoy the cloud sync stuff w/ the OS and my idevices. notes, lists, messages...love them. adds more value to my time.

sazivad
Nov 21, 2012, 02:39 PM
I'm a professional. ML works great at the OS level, my experience across devices is much more consistent… [and] ML continues to exceed my expectations for my work…
Exactly. You can't go around saying that ML is bad for pros because it's unprovable. It's all about opinion.

class77
Nov 21, 2012, 02:40 PM
I just want back the old "Saved As" format as seen in SL, not the convoluted "saved as" the new ML. That goes for pictures and docs. I want to determine when and in what format a piece of information is saved, not the machine.

Morod
Nov 21, 2012, 02:42 PM
Could re-releasing SL be Apple's way of saying "Maybe we should've quit while we were ahead?"
:)

mdelvecchio
Nov 21, 2012, 02:52 PM
I wouldn't call anything non-mobile from Apple a 'full blown computer' seeing how that term could only be relevant to the Mac Pro line


...uh dude? youre high. if you dont think macbooks or ipads are full computers, what can we say? youre high. not everybody needs a truck.


ignored professionals and catered to the iToy crowd.


if you feel the tools billed as iphones & ipads are merely toys, then youre doing it wrong. they help me and countless others manage our businesses and organize our lives. as tools they offer value, just like any other tool. and like other tools, they dont all offer the same value to everyone. and thats fine.


Apple doesnt care about consumers as much as they do about profits,


riiight. are you not aware of apple's business model? theres a reason they earn the most consumer satisfaction polls.


for professionals, its been a terrible experience with Apple for the last while.

can you expand on this? what sort of "professional" are you, and how have you been blocked from doing your business? be specific.

because im an enterprise .NET developer and i have no trouble being a professional on mac. thus, your statement is bunk.

likemyorbs
Nov 21, 2012, 03:01 PM
For users who want to upgrade from Leopard to Lion, they need to purchase Snow Leopard in order to gain access to the Mac App Store.


NO THEY DO NOT!! I'm so sick of this money grubbing rumor. You don't need snow leopard to install mountain lion. Burn the DMG on a disc or a mount it on a flash drive. If you feel the need to do everything "legitimately" by buying an OS that you're never going to use just to be able to update to the newest one, then feel free to waste your time and money.

scottsjack
Nov 21, 2012, 03:03 PM
SL is great. It seems more like a Mac computer than ML. All three of my Macs run ML but I occasionally need to slide the SL disk into the MP for a couple of small tasks. If it wasn't for the compatibility of iTunes libraries, iPhoto libraries, Aperture libraries and the Mail database I would be tempted to return to SL.

timotay89
Nov 21, 2012, 03:06 PM
I agree that most of the stuff in Lion and Mountain Lion are good. I like them more than Snow Leopard, but I do have a problem with Versions.

I love Versions on Pages, Numbers, Keynote, just about everything, but NOT on iBooks Author. With iBooks Author, it creates a new version of my 300MB book every hour. It doesn't save the changes, it creates an entire new version. I have to add the interactive stuff right before I submit it to the store because otherwise I have no hard drive left. The constant saving also slows my computer.

I realize that I can just go and delete the old versions, but that's a pain. If I go version by version it takes about 20-30 seconds to delete each one. Yes I have an older computer, but spending 10+ minutes deleting versions of a file that I don't want versions for is crazy.

I wish we had the option to shut it off for certain apps.

moderngamenewb
Nov 21, 2012, 03:13 PM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

Snow Leopard is my favorite of the OS X series, with Mountain Lion in second place. Lion is my least favorite. Lion was often slow and buggy, but Mountain Lion fixed some of those issues. Two things I miss from Snow Leopard are te Aqua Scroll Bars, and Rosetta, which I used to be able to play Marble Blast Gold. Luckily I can always make a separate partition and run Snow Leopard as well

Ynot
Nov 21, 2012, 03:13 PM
The main reason people have been asking for SL has been that you need it to upgrade. And the Reason people need to upgrade has been the iPhone 5 and iOs6's iCloud services.

But SL was never totally gone. Even if the Search in the Apple online Store found SL but no attached product, after MLion was introduced you could still get SL from Apple. All you had to do was call the 0800er Nr and apple would gladly ship it to you. But it is good that they have reintroduced it into the online Store.

MacsRgr8
Nov 21, 2012, 04:33 PM
It's only there so that everyone can buy OS X ML via the Mac App Store legit.

10.6 was a gr8 OS at the time, but we move on.

MartiNZ
Nov 21, 2012, 04:45 PM
Forever on SL is what you will be.

ML > SL

If you put them together to make S&ML would it be better still? :)

Seriously though, I'm in the SL is best camp. This move just needs to be followed by "New Macs can run SL again", to bring us all back into the market for new Macs, which we have hardly been since Lion's release.

Jmill79
Nov 21, 2012, 05:23 PM
Sweet!! Now I can finally update my Blackbook from 10.5.8! Right?

Snowshiro
Nov 21, 2012, 05:26 PM
The "iPadification process" is all part of the big picture, because like it or not, the future of computing is about users working with both full-blown computer systems and portable devices like the iPad or a smartphone, and expecting an increasing level of integration between them.

If you live in a decent rented apartment and decide to build yourself a new house, you don't go and live in it until it's finished. The state of Mac OS X at the moment is like an unfinished house. They keep bolting bits of iOS to it, but nothing really feels unified or complete.

SlCKB0Y
Nov 21, 2012, 05:39 PM
That's absolutely rediculous. That's like saying I have to buy the 4S before I buy the 5 because I currently own the 3GS.... Capitalism at its best.

Actually, it's nothing like that.

Yebubbleman
Nov 21, 2012, 05:49 PM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

As someone who loved Snow Leopard and was disappointed with Lion by comparison, I really don't think Mountain Lion deserves the flack it's getting in this thread. With Lion, I found myself looking back at Snow Leopard, and being sad that it wasn't the latest OS anymore. With Mountain Lion, I feel much more comfortable with moving forward.

As for the nonsense iPadification arguments, have you ever used Mountain Lion's iPad-esque features? They're not meant to make your computer feel like a tablet. They're meant to give you a useful feature that just so happened to have existed on iOS first. Facebook integration, voice dictation, and launchpad and the notifications center are examples. Though to be fair, the Lion/Mountain Lion OSes aren't as much of a joy without a multitouch trackpad, and for those of us using Desktop Macs, that is disappointing.

But no, I disagree, this is not the inevitable merging of the two platforms happening now. And while Snow Leopard was solid, so was Tiger on Intel, and Panther. I see no reason to exclude Mountain Lion from that having finally replaced my Snow Leopard machine with a new Mac running Mountain Lion. Yes, Snow Leopard was the most practical release ever, but that doesn't make it any better or worse, in my opinion.

Cool but I still have my original CD in case I want to go backwards with my OS.

Speaking of moving forward. Can someone please inform me why I should move from Lion to Mountain Lion? It seems many on here have a distaste for Lion. It seems fine and stable for me...

Mountain Lion is much more refined and polished, by far. A lot of stupid quirks from Lion are resolved and it is ultimately much nicer. If you are a Server user, I'd stick with either Lion Server or Snow Leopard Server as Mountain Lion Server, or "Mountain Lion with OS X Server" as Apple now calls 10.8 Server, sucks.

I'm new to this and working with Lion but have Mountain Lion and never installed. Now here comes again SL and now I am wondering to upgrade to Lion or can I downgrade to SL that's in the store? I would love to try something different. :o

Downgrade if you need to use something in Rosetta. Otherwise, just make a virtual machine and run it there. No reason in going with an outdated OS just to "try something new".

----------

Actually, it's nothing like that.

Not only that, but it's the same thing with Windows. You couldn't upgrade from Windows 2000 to Vista (though why would you), nor could you upgrade from XP directly to 7, nor can you go from XP or Vista to 8. It's always been that you need the OS directly preceding. Yes, they made it super-strict when going from 10.6 to 10.7, but I imagine that had more to do with Mac App Store nonsense than anything else.

Hugh
Nov 21, 2012, 05:50 PM
NO THEY DO NOT!! I'm so sick of this money grubbing rumor. You don't need snow leopard to install mountain lion. Burn the DMG on a disc or a mount it on a flash drive. If you feel the need to do everything "legitimately" by buying an OS that you're never going to use just to be able to update to the newest one, then feel free to waste your time and money.

And how do you expect the user to make this DVD/Jump drive with out the App Store?

Sure you can pirate it to get up to Lion/Mountain Lion but then that isn't exactly legal is it. :/

Hugh

zorinlynx
Nov 21, 2012, 06:12 PM
They should just release an "Upgrader" app you can download and run on Leopard.

This app lets you log into the Mac App Store, buy Mountain Lion, and install it. The app would serve no other purpose, and would be trivial to write.

But no, Apple decides to just do a pointless cash grab (the number of people who need to buy this has got to be miniscule, not to mention a large percentage can just borrow one from a friend). Really??

Dagless
Nov 21, 2012, 06:22 PM
Really wish I could just click a "Magic" button and be back on 10.6.

Ah well!

Hes Nikke
Nov 21, 2012, 06:27 PM
I agree on the creeping featuritis of 10.7 and 10.8, but if you want to talk about "best OS", you'll have to do a lot of work to get me to turn away from System 7 :)

System 7 was a stability nightmare. I think you mean System 7.1 (Pro). :p

Also, in the Microsoft world, Windows 2000 was the best one ever.

wikus
Nov 21, 2012, 06:37 PM
I agree that most of the stuff in Lion and Mountain Lion are good. I like them more than Snow Leopard, but I do have a problem with Versions.

I love Versions on Pages, Numbers, Keynote, just about everything, but NOT on iBooks Author. With iBooks Author, it creates a new version of my 300MB book every hour. It doesn't save the changes, it creates an entire new version. I have to add the interactive stuff right before I submit it to the store because otherwise I have no hard drive left. The constant saving also slows my computer.

I realize that I can just go and delete the old versions, but that's a pain. If I go version by version it takes about 20-30 seconds to delete each one. Yes I have an older computer, but spending 10+ minutes deleting versions of a file that I don't want versions for is crazy.

I wish we had the option to shut it off for certain apps.

Its crazy how much potential hard drive space this kind of ridiculous system can take up. Apple's new iMac will only ship with one internal drive as do the new retina MacBooks without the possibility of an optibay for further expansion. MacBook airs are even worse off considering how little space the SSDs have.

To make matters worse, these drives are typically SSD drives where not only is capacity limiting but all this writing to the drive effectively screws over the lifespan of a drive, especially third party drives without TRIM.

Apple has never been known for choice or options and this will be the cause of their eventual demise. What surprises me is that very few people even outside of the MacRumors site every say anything against this. I understand it not happening in this forum seeing how so many memeber just gobble up whatever Apple says or does, but there really arent many rational thinkers out there.

philipma1957
Nov 21, 2012, 06:42 PM
You've just resigned yourself to living in the past then, as did so many of the old MacOS users when OS X was first released.

The "iPadification process" is all part of the big picture, because like it or not, the future of computing is about users working with both full-blown computer systems and portable devices like the iPad or a smartphone, and expecting an increasing level of integration between them. (Thanks, Mountain Lion, for finally unifying the Tasks and Notes so they're actually useful for me! If I'm at my Mac and want to type up a quick grocery list, I can do it and know that it's going to appear on my iPhone in my coat pocket that I'll take to the store with me. That's the type of functionality we expect these days.)

while that seems true it neglects the biggest problem of small hand held gear. the print is small yeah when you have 20 year old eyes it seems cool. but eyes age and you can't read small print and it is a huge turnoff to a large segment of pc users. i am 55 i have worked with computers for 38 years. While i like smart phones the print is small and is a hassle. I have had double cataract surgery and had great results for far and middle vision at the price of okay results for close up.

most every 20 year old will reach 55. so while i would be 90 when a 20 year today reaches 55 my point is small smart phones have a yet unsolved problem.

I was playing with a mini ipad for my eyes it works but a little too big for my hand.

my thought process is an expanding/contracting mini ipad.

so apple a free idea to work on. make the machine grow or shrink to fit your hand and your eyes. now if this is where they are going i am on their side.

Hes Nikke
Nov 21, 2012, 06:44 PM
I agree that most of the stuff in Lion and Mountain Lion are good. I like them more than Snow Leopard, but I do have a problem with Versions.

...

I wish we had the option to shut it off for certain apps.

wish granted (http://osxdaily.com/2012/07/11/disable-auto-save-and-versions-in-mac-os-x/)

SandboxGeneral
Nov 21, 2012, 06:45 PM
This is good news. I still miss that version of OS X, it was the best. :)

Hes Nikke
Nov 21, 2012, 06:51 PM
while that seems true it neglects the biggest problem of small hand held gear. the print is small yeah when you have 20 year old eyes it seems cool. but eyes age and you can't read small print and it is a huge turnoff to a large segment of pc users. i am 55 i have worked with computers for 38 years. While i like smart phones the print is small and is a hassle. I have had double cataract surgery and had great results for far and middle vision at the price of okay results for close up.

most every 20 year old will reach 55. so while i would be 90 when a 20 year today reaches 55 my point is small smart phones have a yet unsolved problem.

I was playing with a mini ipad for my eyes it works but a little too big for my hand.

my thought process is an expanding/contracting mini ipad.

so apple a free idea to work on. make the machine grow or shrink to fit your hand and your eyes. now if this is where they are going i am on their side.

Apple has you covered there with the zoom feature (http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html)

ixodes
Nov 21, 2012, 07:04 PM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS.

I could not agree more. I replaced all of my Macs in 2010 when I got wind that 10.6 days were numbered. All so that I could have 10.6.8 on fresh computers.

Fast, stable and free of much of the iOS "eye candy", there's no desire on my part, or the firm I work for to "upgrade" anytime soon.

That said I have bought some new MBP's and MBA's since, that run the latest version of OS X, but I've done it only to continue to evaluate the latest revs.

I'm sure at some point Apple will force us to upgrade, but we are going to enjoy what we have till then.

deannnnn
Nov 21, 2012, 07:17 PM
I miss Snow Leopard so much. A Mac made sense as a Mac on Snow Leopard. Now a Mac on Mountain Lion is a computer with an identity crisis, trying to be an iPad.

Boomish69
Nov 21, 2012, 07:37 PM
I wonder if it has anything to do with Logic Pro being unusable under Mountain Lion!

nuckinfutz
Nov 21, 2012, 07:39 PM
I miss Snow Leopard so much. A Mac made sense as a Mac on Snow Leopard. Now a Mac on Mountain Lion is a computer with an identity crisis, trying to be an iPad.

what does this even mean?

bigpoppamac31
Nov 21, 2012, 07:40 PM
So does this mean I can "upgrade" from Lion back to Snow Leopard?? What if I installed SL clean on a fresh HD and brought all my files and apps over??

wikus
Nov 21, 2012, 08:34 PM
...uh dude? youre high. if you dont think macbooks or ipads are full computers, what can we say? youre high. not everybody needs a truck.

A truck? Really? Do you work for apple? Because the only people that still use that ridiculous comparison are apple employees and its been debunked plenty of times.

if you feel the tools billed as iphones & ipads are merely toys, then youre doing it wrong.

You not only sound like an apple employee, but also sound a lot like Steve Jobs... did you make this same argument for those with antennagate and told them they were holding it wrong?

they help me and countless others manage our businesses and organize our lives. as tools they offer value, just like any other tool. and like other tools, they dont all offer the same value to everyone. and thats fine.


Good, now that you understand that some tools work for some and others don't for some, you should also realize that OS 10.7 and 10.8 dont add much flexibility where as the tools that USED to work in 10.6.8 are now gone and no way of adjusting things, which is essentially whats wrong with apple and you fail to see; its their way or the highway. The lack of Expose with Snow Leopards behavior is the #1 reason thats keeping me away from 10.7 and 10.8 as well as all the other forced crap that apple released.... like version without much options for that garbage to be turned OFF. But hey, its easier to just try and slam someone without any knowledge on the matter, right bud?

riiight. are you not aware of apple's business model? theres a reason they earn the most consumer satisfaction polls.

If you think Apple actually cares for consumers over profits, youre delusional. They don't. They never have and never will. If you had some vested stocks you wouldn't care either. They're not a humanitarian organization, they would chew you up and spit you out if it meant profits.

can you expand on this? what sort of "professional" are you, and how have you been blocked from doing your business? be specific.

I used to be a Mac Pro owner. That should tell you everything.

because im an enterprise .NET developer and i have no trouble being a professional on mac. thus, your statement is bunk.

So because your job doesnt require a good computer, everyone else's needs are irrelevant? I see.

OLDCODGER
Nov 21, 2012, 08:39 PM
As others have stated, put the latest drivers into SL, and I would then buy future Macs, rather than go Linux, once my current Mac dies.

philipma1957
Nov 21, 2012, 10:02 PM
Apple has you covered there with the zoom feature (http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html)

while you would think so the problem is my corrective surgery has one eye at 20-12 and one eye at 20-80 this is done with a lot of cataract victims,

the 20-12 in my case allows far distance viewing instant no issues. the 20-80 allows for middle viewing pretty well. the brain does the processing to make it look perfectly clear.

but there is more lag to focus as the print gets smaller. so little screens expanding quickly to full small sections of a page are pretty much worthless to me. the fast expansion would be great but then i have to wait a while for my brain to make that adjustment go into focus. this pretty much has fully forced me out of smartphone use.

If the smaller iPad worked as a smart phone I could make due. I was talking with my eye surgeon and he was telling me this is a growing problem as millions of boomers like myself know how to use the gear and can't. Well since this is not going to vanish only grow over time I am sure some smart guy will figure out a better interface. Lets say there are 2 million people like myself in the us. under 65 tech savvy with some coin to spend . in ten years the tech savvy group over 50 will be bigger not smaller.

our solution right now is an iPad and a cheap cell phone. or a macbook air and a cheap cell phone. it would be nice to have a better solution.

Yamcha
Nov 21, 2012, 10:25 PM
Agree I think Snow Leopard was Apple's best OS. However I'm personally very happy with Mountain Lion.. OSX Lion 10.7 was kind of the Vista equivalent, maybe not as bad, but the performance certainly wasn't that good..

iSee
Nov 21, 2012, 10:27 PM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

Lion was one step forward, two steps back.
ML is just three steps forward.

You keep smashing looms. I'll enjoy OS X the way it was meant to be.

MartiNZ
Nov 21, 2012, 10:31 PM
System 7 was a stability nightmare. I think you mean System 7.1 (Pro). :p

Also, in the Microsoft world, Windows 2000 was the best one ever.

I'd go 7.6.1; I know some things were worse but it was the very end of the line for 68030!

Windows 2000 was indeed awesome.

Eithanius
Nov 21, 2012, 10:56 PM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

I inclined to agree... Lion and ML are bloatware...

Just hit Command+N repeatedly (and fast) on Finder or Safari, and ML will struggle to keep up. It happens even with that stupid New Window Animation TURNED OFF as per listed on osxdaily.com.

I don't see that problem in SL...


And I'm waiting for those SL detractors to say GT 330M is a lousy piece of junk...? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

AppleFanatic10
Nov 21, 2012, 11:05 PM
Just installed it, Safari seems a lot snappier.

Oh, wait…

Hahaha I was waiting for someone to say that :rolleyes:

SeattleMoose
Nov 21, 2012, 11:37 PM
I was having serious doubts about Apple (they released the new Mac Mini with a defective HDMI output), I read that SL will become available again. And why not? It is THE BEST OS 10 version that Apple ever released. And if they can make a few $$ selling something that is pure profit....its a win/win.

Now please go fix the Mac Mini so I can pick one up!!!

nuckinfutz
Nov 21, 2012, 11:53 PM
I was having serious doubts about Apple (they released the new Mac Mini with a defective HDMI output), I read that SL will become available again. And why not? It is THE BEST OS 10 version that Apple ever released. And if they can make a few $$ selling something that is pure profit....its a win/win.

Now please go fix the Mac Mini so I can pick one up!!!

They never stopped selling it. You could always call up and order it directly even when it wasn't on the store.

k995
Nov 22, 2012, 12:19 AM
The equivalent of MS re-releasing windows XP, I can just imagin the comments.


It just goes to show how little apple improved its OS since then.

RSL
Nov 22, 2012, 12:23 AM
I get Exposé, but seriously, what's wrong with Versions? I've recovered many documents and unwanted changes with it. A great feature.

Sure you can recover documents... But imagine you have loads of versions of a very long document every day. Try scrolling through versions and looking for that change you want to undo. No piece of cake. What more is that hot corners are always being triggered through the interface. Obviously not thoroughly tested by Apple. Just another addition to the features list.

dukebound85
Nov 22, 2012, 12:25 AM
Sure you can recover documents... But imagine you have loads of versions of a very long document every day. Try scrolling through versions and looking for that change you want to undo. No piece of cake. What more is that hot corners are always being triggered through the interface. Obviously not thoroughly tested by Apple. Just another addition to the features list.

So you would rather not have a solution to find a version you are looking for? and thus unable to recover a document before changes are made? or what exactly?

wikus
Nov 22, 2012, 12:36 AM
So you would rather not have a solution to find a version you are looking for? and thus unable to recover a document before changes are made? or what exactly?

How did you manage before this feature?

Also, can you imagine how much space would be eaten up with larger projects????

dukebound85
Nov 22, 2012, 12:38 AM
How did you manage before this feature?

Also, can you imagine how much space would be eaten up with larger projects????

I managed fine without a cell phone many years too, yet it has proven to be quite useful....same with versions

Before, I would, at times, manually save documents with different date stamps until it was complete. Quite inelequent compared to versions

jdiamond
Nov 22, 2012, 12:40 AM
The equivalent of MS re-releasing windows XP, I can just imagin the comments.

...People's faith would be restored in Microsoft. There's a reason half of all Windows users still use XP. If XP SP 5 came out with Direct X 11 support, I guarantee you it would win the lion's share of Windows users.

IMO, Snow Leopard is analogous to XP, and Mountain Lion is analogous to Windows 7. If you fiddle enough with Snow Leopard, it's not all that bad - but it's slower and more bloated and won't run as fast on your older hardware.

Snow Leopard does really well what 99% of all people need a computer to do. Mountain Lion adds a slew of new features that I have no interest in.

To all the people mocking love of Snow Leopard, do you not believe that at some point, a tool can be good and complete, and that it really is possible that if you change it just for the sake of change you are actually breaking it? It's not the same as comparing Snow Leopard to DOS - there are useful things you can do in SL that you can't do in ML - they took away very convenient things. But I am hopeful 3rd party programmers can largely bring them back, so when I can finally afford new hardware...

But in the long term view of things, I totally admit that OS-X and iOS have to merge somehow. And let's face it - Apple sells 300 million iOS devices a year and about 50 million Macs a year....

RSL
Nov 22, 2012, 01:52 AM
So you would rather not have a solution to find a version you are looking for? and thus unable to recover a document before changes are made? or what exactly?

Should I just repost what I said? :confused:

GermanyChris
Nov 22, 2012, 01:56 AM
You've just resigned yourself to living in the past then, as did so many of the old MacOS users when OS X was first released.

The "iPadification process" is all part of the big picture, because like it or not, the future of computing is about users working with both full-blown computer systems and portable devices like the iPad or a smartphone, and expecting an increasing level of integration between them. (Thanks, Mountain Lion, for finally unifying the Tasks and Notes so they're actually useful for me! If I'm at my Mac and want to type up a quick grocery list, I can do it and know that it's going to appear on my iPhone in my coat pocket that I'll take to the store with me. That's the type of functionality we expect these days.)

Who is we? I assume you mean you and your family not "we" as the greater mac using community.

Lion and Mountain Lion really didn't bring tangible benefits to my portables they did bring new graphic cards to the MP and Hack.

wikus
Nov 22, 2012, 02:08 AM
I managed fine without a cell phone many years too, yet it has proven to be quite useful....same with versions

Before, I would, at times, manually save documents with different date stamps until it was complete. Quite inelequent compared to versions

There isn't much control over this anyway. I work a lot with the adobe creative suite and often times clients will want concepts and then revisions and again revisions of previous revisions. Things get crazy and its much easier to do a simple old school 'save as' with proper naming convention than versions.

I don't know how Lion and ML handle CS5 or CS6 but I pray to god that when I am forced to switch to the newer OS, that Adobe hasn't gone stupid and implemented this ridiculous versions system from Apple. And if its there by default, there better be a way to turn off that garbage.

GermanyChris
Nov 22, 2012, 02:44 AM
There isn't much control over this anyway. I work a lot with the adobe creative suite and often times clients will want concepts and then revisions and again revisions of previous revisions. Things get crazy and its much easier to do a simple old school 'save as' with proper naming convention than versions.

I don't know how Lion and ML handle CS5 or CS6 but I pray to god that when I am forced to switch to the newer OS, that Adobe hasn't gone stupid and implemented this ridiculous versions system from Apple. And if its there by default, there better be a way to turn off that garbage.

There is it's called Windows, I been playing with CS 6 in Windows in the last few weeks on the MP and it Ps, Ai the two things I use most work better than on the Mac.

wikus
Nov 22, 2012, 02:54 AM
There is it's called Windows, I been playing with CS 6 in Windows in the last few weeks on the MP and it Ps, Ai the two things I use most work better than on the Mac.

I have Windows 7 as well and while its definitely Microsoft's best OS, I have no reason to switch to it from Snow Leopard as it still works perfectly fine. Like someone else mentioned, SL is a perfect blend of functionality, stability and optimization where as 10.7 and 10.8 added nothing crucial.

I'll explore my options when Snow Leopard starts being unsupported.

GermanyChris
Nov 22, 2012, 03:23 AM
I have Windows 7 as well and while its definitely Microsoft's best OS, I have no reason to switch to it from Snow Leopard as it still works perfectly fine. Like someone else mentioned, SL is a perfect blend of functionality, stability and optimization where as 10.7 and 10.8 added nothing crucial.

I'll explore my options when Snow Leopard starts being unsupported.

That'll most likely happen this year, which is why I'm exploring.

Mr. Retrofire
Nov 22, 2012, 03:43 AM
BIG THANKS to Apple! The next thing is:
Rosetta for Mountain Lion (15 US$ in the MAS). ;-)

anvikapur
Nov 22, 2012, 03:50 AM
Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/21/os-x-10-6-snow-leopard-again-available-on-the-apple-online-store/)


Image (http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/11/NewImage30.png)Apple is once again selling OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard (http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC573/mac-os-x-106-snow-leopard) on the Apple Online Store for $19.99. The return was noticed by (http://www.macg.co/news/voir/257912/snow-leopard-a-18-sur-l-apple-store) the French site MacGeneration. Apple had pulled Snow Leopard from its site after Mountain Lion (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1412135) was released earlier this year.

This is significant because Snow Leopard is required to run the more recent versions of iTunes that newer iOS devices require, and it is also the last OS X operating system that could only be purchased on physical media.

For users who want to upgrade from Leopard to Lion, they need to purchase Snow Leopard in order to gain access to the Mac App Store.

Article Link: OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard Again Available on the Apple Online Store (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/21/os-x-10-6-snow-leopard-again-available-on-the-apple-online-store/)

thanks for sharing the info on snow leopard again on apple online store and its cost

swingerofbirch
Nov 22, 2012, 03:52 AM
Funny thing happened today. I didn't have a copy of Keynote on my computer and in the past I had always used the free trials. So I downloaded it from the Mac App Store. I tried using iMovie for a presentation I'm making instead, but iMovie is a hot mess.

I noticed right away how old Keynote was: it's 09, it still has the badge to send documents to iWork.com which doesn't exist, in the inspector it uses the QT 7 icon, it still has an export option to iDVD which hasn't been shipping with Macs in a long time, etc.

However, it is the same beautiful, intuitive (and there is a difference between intuitive and simple) application I have loved for years.

And I thought to myself, why is this so much better than Apple's other recent Mac apps (iMovie and iPhoto and many others)?

And then I thought, "It's because Apple hasn't touched it in four years!"

All that is to say, I get the love for Snow Leopard. I'm still running it on my iMac, and it works great. I've had too many issues with Lion and ML to list here.

I hope Apple gets back to good quality, intuitive software.

AppleInTheMud
Nov 22, 2012, 03:53 AM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

Agree 100% ... Snow Leopard and since it's been downhill.

Mountain Lion is ugly...

k995
Nov 22, 2012, 04:22 AM
...People's faith would be restored in Microsoft. There's a reason half of all Windows users still use XP.
Yes they dont have a clue how to update.

And half is far from reality

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201210-201210-bar

try 20%



If XP SP 5 came out with Direct X 11 support, I guarantee you it would win the lion's share of Windows users.
Yes because people wont use the better 7 or 8? Even vista at this point is better (was from SP2) then XP.



IMO, Snow Leopard is analogous to XP, and Mountain Lion is analogous to Windows 7. If you fiddle enough with Snow Leopard, it's not all that bad - but it's slower and more bloated and won't run as fast on your older hardware.

And with 7 and 8 its actually the reverse, its easier to use and faster .




To all the people mocking love of Snow Leopard, do you not believe that at some point, a tool can be good and complete, and that it really is possible that if you change it just for the sake of change you are actually breaking it? It's not the same as comparing Snow Leopard to DOS - there are useful things you can do in SL that you can't do in ML - they took away very convenient things. But I am hopeful 3rd party programmers can largely bring them back, so when I can finally afford new hardware...

But in the long term view of things, I totally admit that OS-X and iOS have to merge somehow. And let's face it - Apple sells 300 million iOS devices a year and about 50 million Macs a year....

OSX can be vastly improved, but apple seems to have taken te wrong turn.

Lancer
Nov 22, 2012, 04:37 AM
So does this mean that iTunes 11 will run on SL?

I thought it already did?

The current iTunes needs SL and Intel I assume the same will apply with iTunes11?

roadbloc
Nov 22, 2012, 04:44 AM
Please add the drivers for current hardware Apple.

This would be nice for them not into the iOS nonsense. However, very unlikely. This is more likely to encourage Leopard users to move onto Lion/Mountain Lion.

CplBadboy
Nov 22, 2012, 05:05 AM
Hehe! SL was a great OS. I upgraded to Lion and boy was that painful. Only now have I got it to run stable. It took rebuilding the drive and file structures to do it and it seems ok now. Would like to upgrade to ML but Apple wont let me. It thinks I have thousands of pounds to pull out my ass for new hardware to run what is a Service Pack 1 for Lion. So its a no go. Shame as I would like to install it as reports say it runs very well.

Reading this article I partitioned my drive and installed SL again. I miss that little start up tune that came with the Leopard series and it was great hearing it during the install! Hehe!

SL still feels more polished than Lion overall IMO and still quick. :D

hamkor04
Nov 22, 2012, 07:09 AM
First Mac OS that welcomed me after windows and give brilliant stability.

r.harris1
Nov 22, 2012, 07:34 AM
I miss Snow Leopard so much. A Mac made sense as a Mac on Snow Leopard. Now a Mac on Mountain Lion is a computer with an identity crisis, trying to be an iPad.

If you want identity crisis, use Windows 8. I've used every version of OS X, and believe me, all of them have had their challenges with forums crammed full of tips and tricks to get around features or perceived limitations that Apple introduced. ML is no exception, but in no way do I feel like I am using an iPad, not even close.

r.harris1
Nov 22, 2012, 07:50 AM
....

I used to be a Mac Pro owner. That should tell you everything.

...

Dear me. Yes, it definitely tells us everything.

Pegamush
Nov 22, 2012, 08:02 AM
the minimum OS to download ML. but 10.6.8 is stable as a rock, if sl would support icloud I would stay with sl.

if SL supported new macs i would buy a new one.

iBug2
Nov 22, 2012, 09:02 AM
The equivalent of MS re-releasing windows XP, I can just imagin the comments.


It just goes to show how little apple improved its OS since then.

No. It's the equivalent of MS re-selling XP on their online store. It just shows that there are still people on Leopard who cannot buy ML because they can't buy SL through the online store.

rdas7
Nov 22, 2012, 09:47 AM
Unlikely iTunes 11 will support anything less than 10.8 —*quite likely it uses APIs that are not available in older versions.

crankmotion
Nov 22, 2012, 09:50 AM
I'm still using it on all my Macs.

For Front Row, Spaces and its greater battery life on my MBP.

Manderby
Nov 22, 2012, 09:55 AM
My 2cents:

For me, SL ist THE working environment. I use my computer mainly for work. And SL helps me do it just the way I need. I do programming, designing, administration, scientific stuff, ... Everything is pretty perfect.

I bought a new Computer when Lion came out and I boucht one when ML came. Because I need to test my software on different systems. And buying a new computer is just the most hassle-free way to do that. They sit somewhere on my desk and are used maybe two times a month. They are testing machines. Working with them? Hell no!

There are some things though, which I would like to have in SL: Vertical window resize, the newest Safari without the upload-bug and maybe the new less-rounded buttons. But thats pretty much it. App store is ok too. Helps me find out what my competitors are doing. :) But it's already there in SL, so why bother.

We'll see what 10.9 will be. SL had so many great features for me as a programmer. Let's hope 10.9 will be more like that.

r.harris1
Nov 22, 2012, 10:31 AM
My 2cents:

For me, SL ist THE working environment. I use my computer mainly for work. And SL helps me do it just the way I need. I do programming, designing, administration, scientific stuff, ... Everything is pretty perfect.

I bought a new Computer when Lion came out and I boucht one when ML came. Because I need to test my software on different systems. And buying a new computer is just the most hassle-free way to do that. They sit somewhere on my desk and are used maybe two times a month. They are testing machines. Working with them? Hell no!

There are some things though, which I would like to have in SL: Vertical window resize, the newest Safari without the upload-bug and maybe the new less-rounded buttons. But thats pretty much it. App store is ok too. Helps me find out what my competitors are doing. :) But it's already there in SL, so why bother.

We'll see what 10.9 will be. SL had so many great features for me as a programmer. Let's hope 10.9 will be more like that.

Interesting. As a developer, there's nothing that I could do in SL that I can't do in ML, at least for how I work.

Ropie
Nov 22, 2012, 10:44 AM
Yes! That's how I feel as well. In fact, I tried to upgrade my 5-year-old iMac with 4GB RAM and 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo and it brought it to its knees. I had to downgrade back to Snow Leopard

Exactly the same experience for me. I'm still on SL and am not looking forward to leaving it behind when I finally need to replace my 2007 MBP :(

TheRainKing
Nov 22, 2012, 11:21 AM
Snow Leopard felt more efficient and refined than Lion and Mountain Lion, but I do like some of the new features that were added in Lion and Mountain Lion.

Wasn't Bertrand Serlet the main guy behind Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard? Shame he left. :(

Miguel Cunha
Nov 22, 2012, 11:51 AM
Hi!

Can anyone tell me if this is a complete release of Snow Leopard - 10.6.8, including every security and other updates - or just a re-release of 10.6, or 10.6.3?

Thanks!

Eithanius
Nov 22, 2012, 12:05 PM
Snow Leopard felt more efficient and refined than Lion and Mountain Lion, but I do like some of the new features that were added in Lion and Mountain Lion.

Wasn't Bertrand Serlet the main guy behind Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard? Shame he left. :(

There was also speculations that he was either forced to leave Apple... or voluntarily left after seeing the skewed future of Mac OS X - what is now Lion and Mountain Lion...

nuckinfutz
Nov 22, 2012, 12:16 PM
Hi!

Can anyone tell me if this is a complete release of Snow Leopard - 10.6.8, including every security and other updates - or just a re-release of 10.6, or 10.6.3?

Thanks!

It's most likely 10.6.6 or above as that's when the Mac App Store came to fruition.

coolfactor
Nov 22, 2012, 12:32 PM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

For someone who doesn't seem to use Lion or Mountain Lion, you sure have drawn a solid conclusion, eh?

I am running Mountain Lion on my 2007 Mac Book Pro and it runs great. No performance problems, things actually improved for the most part. Stability is rock solid.

As for Expose, Lion's version was the first that I actually understand. It works as I always expected it to work. I found the previous version awkward and confusing to use, and therefore rarely used it.

----------

Snow Leopard felt more efficient and refined than Lion and Mountain Lion, but I do like some of the new features that were added in Lion and Mountain Lion.

Wasn't Bertrand Serlet the main guy behind Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard? Shame he left. :(

I saw Bertrand sitting in the audience of the latest keynote, so he's still involved in Apple in some fashion.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.droplr.com/files_production/acc_96079/cfQN?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJSVQN3Z4K7MT5U2A&Expires=1353612717&Signature=CJkrZ7BmEsZMbdGNAu9DShyYlfk%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%2A%3DUTF-8%27%27bertrand-ive.png

TheRainKing
Nov 22, 2012, 12:36 PM
I saw Bertrand sitting in the audience of the latest keynote, so he's still involved in Apple in some fashion.

Image (https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.droplr.com/files_production/acc_96079/cfQN?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJSVQN3Z4K7MT5U2A&Expires=1353612717&Signature=CJkrZ7BmEsZMbdGNAu9DShyYlfk%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%2A%3DUTF-8%27%27bertrand-ive.png)

I saw that as well. Doesn't mean that he still works for them in some capacity, he could have just been there as a guest. Seems like he's on good terms though.

dcdude
Nov 22, 2012, 01:03 PM
I am currently on a 2009 MBP running 10.5.8 and have been getting tons of messages from different software and browsers that I am no longer receiving updates for because they don't support my OS any more, so I am happy that they finally brought this back to the online store.

However, my problem is that my superdrive stopped working for absolutely no reason, so I won't be able to install this via the DVD. Is there any other way to boot this? Perhaps through an external hard drive or thumb drive?

SanJacinto
Nov 22, 2012, 01:34 PM
I am currently on a 2009 MBP running 10.5.8 and have been getting tons of messages from different software and browsers that I am no longer receiving updates for because they don't support my OS any more, so I am happy that they finally brought this back to the online store.

However, my problem is that my superdrive stopped working for absolutely no reason, so I won't be able to install this via the DVD. Is there any other way to boot this? Perhaps through an external hard drive or thumb drive?

"Opera for Mac" still supports OS X 10.5. It's not so polished like Safari, but with some add ons like reading list and so on, it has the same functionality.

MacsRgr8
Nov 22, 2012, 01:44 PM
It's most likely 10.6.6 or above as that's when the Mac App Store came to fruition.

I wouldn't count on it.
10.6.3 was the Retail DVD shipped with the latest Mac Box Set.

I think Apple has plenty "10.6.3" DVD's left and as this OS is available ONLY so that you legitimately buy OS X Lion and OS X Mountain Lion.
Apple probably won't be doing any work to release a higher version of it.

You update to 10.6.6 or higher yourself, and you buy 10.8.

It's NOT there so that users can use an old OS as some on these forums seem to want...:rolleyes:

vea1083
Nov 22, 2012, 01:51 PM
I am very happy that Apple returned OS X 10.6 to the shelves, simply the best OS X ever. To me it was a very reliable and stable operating system and very Mac oriented compared to the two next releases (Lion and Mountain Lion).

To be fair I hated OS X Lion on my MacBook Pro because of its annoying bugs with the nvidia 330m processor. Thankfully, in Mountain Lion Apple fixed the Nvidia issues and actually reverted some settings that were default in OS X Lion and this to some extent has made me believe that OS X Mountain Lion is the second or third best release of OS X and to me it is (OS X 10.8) the spiritual "Snow Leopard" of OS X Lion.

----------

Wasn't Bertrand Serlet the main guy behind Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard? Shame he left. :(
Yes, Bertrand was the head of all Mac OS X versions until 10.6, he also was the head of NeXTStep on NeXT. I think too is a shame he left, if I were Tim Cook I would bring him back on board of the OS X development team. I wonder what he would say about the new annual release cycle for OS X, I strongly prefer a 2-3 year development cycle for an OS in order to iron out any issues with it.

nuckinfutz
Nov 22, 2012, 02:01 PM
I wouldn't count on it.
10.6.3 was the Retail DVD shipped with the latest Mac Box Set.

I think Apple has plenty "10.6.3" DVD's left and as this OS is available ONLY so that you legitimately buy OS X Lion and OS X Mountain Lion.
Apple probably won't be doing any work to release a higher version of it.

You update to 10.6.6 or higher yourself, and you buy 10.8.

It's NOT there so that users can use an old OS as some on these forums seem to want...:rolleyes:

You could be right. Luckily the updates are pretty easy.

I'm just letting these "Snow Leopard rules" people have their moment. I was here when SL came out and got trashed for having no features. Ahhhhh Nostalgia is grand isn't it?

MacsRgr8
Nov 22, 2012, 02:14 PM
I'm just letting these "Snow Leopard rules" people have their moment. I was here when SL came out and got trashed for having no features. Ahhhhh Nostalgia is grand isn't it?

LOL, indeed I remember that too.
10.5.8 was everything!

BTW, the same happened to 10.4.11....
For many Tiger was the best OS ever. ;)

blanka
Nov 22, 2012, 02:17 PM
The best of Snow Leopard is that it runs Freehand. Illustrator stays a mess as long as it has 6 different pointer-tools, and because of its internal data-structure, it does not allow the great almighty triangle connector points. The vector point that rules them all. If you want to make perfect fonts and logo's you can't do without the triangle.

Xenc
Nov 22, 2012, 02:31 PM
Bring back Lion too! You can run into similar issues when reinstalling OS X 10.7.

Stonefly
Nov 22, 2012, 02:34 PM
Hi!

Can anyone tell me if this is a complete release of Snow Leopard - 10.6.8, including every security and other updates - or just a re-release of 10.6, or 10.6.3?

Thanks!

According to the tonymac site it's 10.6.3. Read HERE (http://www.tonymacx86.com/303-mac-os-x-10-6-snow-leopard-dvd-available-again-online-19-99.html)

Just a quick FYI,

These are Version 10.6.8
(EDIT: Correction.. After Physically verifying the disks I received, it is indeed 10.6.3. The "Genius" on the phone misinformed me.. see follow-up post)
It was still available from Apple if you called Apple and placed a phone order.
I Ordered 2 back on Sept 29th for the $19.99 price with free shipping plus tax.

The woman that took my order said it was still a hot seller and wishes they didn't take it off the webpage or out of the stores.
She had stated that many people with older macs cant find their install media that came with their systems.

Member(TM)
Nov 22, 2012, 03:21 PM
And half is far from reality

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201210-201210-bar

try 20%


According to your link, XP is nearer 30% (27% of all operating systems, but slightly above 30% of Windows operating systems).

wikus
Nov 22, 2012, 03:28 PM
You could be right. Luckily the updates are pretty easy.

I'm just letting these "Snow Leopard rules" people have their moment. I was here when SL came out and got trashed for having no features. Ahhhhh Nostalgia is grand isn't it?

Yeah, and I remember many people, myself included praising Snow Leopard when it came out not for its features but for its optimization. Ahhhh Nostalgia is grand isn't it?

nuckinfutz
Nov 22, 2012, 03:43 PM
Yeah, and I remember many people, myself included praising Snow Leopard when it came out not for its features but for its optimization. Ahhhh Nostalgia is grand isn't it?

I wasn't complaining either. Optimizations are good, in fact Mountain Lion is an optimized Lion IMO.

For laughs and historical context.

Anyone else think Snow Leopard Sucks? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=766420)

Once Snow Leopard hits there are going to be tons of complaining threads... (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=765511&highlight=snow+leopard+underwhelmed)

Could Snow Leopard Be Apples Vista? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=774331&highlight=snow+leopard+underwhelmed)

Grin

Always gonna be naysayers.

nick_elt
Nov 22, 2012, 04:26 PM
Safari seems snappier....





Am i doing it right?

adamryan1983
Nov 22, 2012, 05:06 PM
I'm quite happy with ML

Hugh
Nov 22, 2012, 05:59 PM
You could be right. Luckily the updates are pretty easy.

I'm just letting these "Snow Leopard rules" people have their moment. I was here when SL came out and got trashed for having no features. Ahhhhh Nostalgia is grand isn't it?

I remember those too, 10.5.8 was the greatest since slice bread. :/

Hugh

NOTE: New 2012 machines owners, you can not install Snow Leopard on to it. It's only for the older machines. Thought I would mention it so you didn't get confused. :)

HornetMontana
Nov 22, 2012, 06:04 PM
Would it be unwise to install Snow Leopard on a new Mac?

dukebound85
Nov 22, 2012, 06:12 PM
Would it be unwise to install Snow Leopard on a new Mac?
You can't. Sl doesnt have drivers for newer hardware

Hugh
Nov 22, 2012, 06:30 PM
Its crazy how much potential hard drive space this kind of ridiculous system can take up. Apple's new iMac will only ship with one internal drive as do the new retina MacBooks without the possibility of an optibay for further expansion. MacBook airs are even worse off considering how little space the SSDs have.

To make matters worse, these drives are typically SSD drives where not only is capacity limiting but all this writing to the drive effectively screws over the lifespan of a drive, especially third party drives without TRIM.

Apple has never been known for choice or options and this will be the cause of their eventual demise. What surprises me is that very few people even outside of the MacRumors site every say anything against this. I understand it not happening in this forum seeing how so many memeber just gobble up whatever Apple says or does, but there really arent many rational thinkers out there.

Yes, yes, we've heard it before. Apple didn't put BluRay drives in it's machines "Apple is doomed!" Pulling out the CD/DVD drive "Apple is doomed!". Apple pulling the 3 1/2 drive out of the machine "Apple is doomed!", Apple not making Mini Tower "Apple is doomed!". We've heard it all before.

I have a hunch that Apple isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

The new machines have Thunder Bolt and USB 3, plenty expansion there. :/

Hugh

msandersen
Nov 22, 2012, 07:03 PM
Yes! That's how I feel as well. In fact, I tried to upgrade my 5-year-old iMac with 4GB RAM and 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo and it brought it to its knees. I had to downgrade back to Snow Leopard and let me tell you, that was a 2-week e-mail reverse conversion nightmare.

Yes I want a new iMac, but the cash is just not coming in to cover one. (Dream: I can't imagine how fast a new iMac would be if you loaded with SL.)

I do love some of the improvements in Lion/Mountain Lion and wish I could have them, but the performance tradeoff makes it unappealing at best for now. I hope 10.9 fixes that. Who knows, when I finally get a new iMac, perhaps I won't care since the performance will be fine again, I hope.
I upgraded my late 2007 2.66 Core Duo iMac from Snow Leopard; I'd kept off Lion as I liked Exposé too much, but still wanted the iCloud stuff. I turned off "Group Windows by app" in Mission Control to retain Exposé functionality and useful for things like dragging windows to other screens. At first it seemed a bit more sluggish, but having cleaned up my system including making more space on the main HD and defragging with iDefrag (yes, Macs esp ones low on space can benefit from it; I expect upgrading in place will put the new system files wherever there is space), it runs better; also once the system has cached for the first time it improves performance. Moreover I maxed out the Ram with 6Gb (it officially only supports 4 according to Apple).
It now runs very well, even with Aperture.

(Kerfuffle)
Nov 22, 2012, 07:07 PM
Just ordered SL for my iMac still running Leopard. Since it is confirmed that these discs are 10.6.3, will I still be able to update to 10.6.8 from there?

wikus
Nov 22, 2012, 07:09 PM
Yes, yes, we've heard it before. Apple didn't put BluRay drives in it's machines "Apple is doomed!" Pulling out the CD/DVD drive "Apple is doomed!". Apple pulling the 3 1/2 drive out of the machine "Apple is doomed!", Apple not making Mini Tower "Apple is doomed!". We've heard it all before.

I have a hunch that Apple isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

The new machines have Thunder Bolt and USB 3, plenty expansion there. :/

Hugh

Nowhere in my post did I insinuate that Apple ia doomed. They won't be doomed for a long time because the cult od brand is too strong. Every screwup by apple is answered with consumers turning a blind eye, they don't care enough and apple knows they can get away with it.

stroked
Nov 22, 2012, 07:18 PM
Just ordered SL for my iMac still running Leopard. Since it is confirmed that these discs are 10.6.3, will I still be able to update to 10.6.8 from there?

If your iMac will boot to 10.6.3, you will still be able to update it to 10.6.8.

duckrabbit
Nov 22, 2012, 07:52 PM
Resizing windows in SL is infuriating...

http://www.blogcdn.com//media/2011/07/resize-cjr.jpg

Edit: Also, Filevault 2 is only available in 10.7+. Lion and Mountain Lion aren't all iOS-ification.

michigander
Nov 23, 2012, 12:17 AM
Been running SL on my 2006 MacBook. Just bought a new MacBook Pro today. I don't mind ML. It does a fine job for me as a Computer Science major.

RSL
Nov 23, 2012, 12:30 AM
Bertrand was the head of all Mac OS X versions until 10.6, he also was the head of NeXTStep on NeXT.

The Holy Trinity: Serlet, Ive, and Jobs.

Henk Poley
Nov 23, 2012, 03:26 AM
If you look at the different Sparkle statistics around the web, you see that Snow Leopard still has approx. 30% of the total OS X installations.

r.harris1
Nov 23, 2012, 05:34 AM
Nowhere in my post did I insinuate that Apple ia doomed. They won't be doomed for a long time because the cult od brand is too strong. Every screwup by apple is answered with consumers turning a blind eye, they don't care enough and apple knows they can get away with it.

You take yourself far too seriously. Apple is just a company. Mac OS X is just an operating system, and with the newer variants, you seem to have hit a brick wall and are either unable or unwilling to get around what you consider to be problems. And while there is nothing wrong with that, insinuating that anyone who actually can work with the OS, enjoys the OS, or who likes the company for whatever reason is just sitting around drinking company koolaid doesn't go terribly well with your "Think objectively" motto.

You will likely point out that lots of people are complaining about the same things you do. While true, it's not really interesting. People can either work within a given system or they can't. If a million people can't work well with, say, ML, but I can, the only thing that really matters to me is "I can." And that's not to be a selfish bastard, it's to be pragmatic when it comes to tool choice. And an OS is just a tool. I use ML, RHEL, W7/8 every single day. I write software on all of those environments. I write software on ios and android. My current OS of choice is ML. It works well, is rock solid for me, lets me run the other operating systems via reasonably well performing VMs, lets me interact with a corporate Microsoft environment reasonably well, lets me write ios/android software and pursue my hobbies of photography and music. All in one nice, reasonably elegant package and on reasonably well performing hardware. Go figure.

Is ML the best thing since sliced bread? No, but nor is any OS. And don't get me wrong, I think discussing issues/problems with operating systems is both interesting and useful. However, there's no value in the constant "I'm right and everyone else is koolaid consuming peasants, end-of-story" discussions. (Notes to self that is engaging in one at present :))

Joseph Farrugia
Nov 23, 2012, 05:45 AM
Forever on SL is what you will be.

ML > SL

His choice, no need to berate her/him.

SL > ML for me in so many ways, but then I am an image management power user; I would think the vast majority of new Apple users would be better suited with iOS (& thus ML).

Good to have choice.

r.harris1
Nov 23, 2012, 06:01 AM
His choice, no need to berate her/him.

SL > ML for me in so many ways, but then I am an image management power user; I would think the vast majority of new Apple users would be better suited with iOS (& thus ML).

Good to have choice.

Yes, choice is a good thing. To be fair, another choice that should be mentioned is that ML also offers the ability for people to be image management power users, just that they may not be able do it in the same way as SL.

Joseph Farrugia
Nov 23, 2012, 07:16 AM
Yes, choice is a good thing. To be fair, another choice that should be mentioned is that ML also offers the ability for people to be image management power users, just that they may not be able do it in the same way as SL.

(my highlights in bold italic)
I think you hit the nail on the head, ML "also offers" a "solution", albeit a solution looking for a problem, or rather creating new problems :D
The Lion/ML document handling is a real & present hindrance to efficiency & is potentially can cause you to lose data. (there are numerous posts on other forums about this, no need to delve into that here)

I repeat: choice is good; I also hope Apple do not continue removing choice.

r.harris1
Nov 23, 2012, 07:50 AM
(my highlights in bold italic)
I think you hit the nail on the head, ML "also offers" a "solution", albeit a solution looking for a problem, or rather creating new problems :D
The Lion/ML document handling is a real & present hindrance to efficiency & is potentially can cause you to lose data. (there are numerous posts on other forums about this, no need to delve into that here)

I repeat: choice is good; I also hope Apple do not continue removing choice.

While I personally don't have problems with efficiency or data loss using the newer methods, I am aware that people do (am aware of the zillions of posts on the subject too). I guess my point is that efficiency isn't strictly determined by the OS. It has to do with personal preferences, style of work and taste, though not to discount people's trials and tribulations. If you lose data, that's not a good thing.

polee
Nov 23, 2012, 07:58 AM
I am still using SL.

Siri's assist.
Nov 23, 2012, 02:28 PM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

The Mac OSX version of Windows XP Luddism?
:cool:

OLDCODGER
Nov 23, 2012, 04:24 PM
The Mac OSX version of Windows XP Luddism?
:cool:

Luddism is the prevention of improvements in method, allowing for greater prosperity.

Changing something that works, for the sake of a change in method, is not always the better way to go.

garylapointe
Nov 23, 2012, 06:05 PM
But LION still isn't available to those who can't run Mountain Lion. That's weird.

Gary

OLDCODGER
Nov 23, 2012, 06:11 PM
But LION still isn't available to those who can't run Mountain Lion. That's weird.

Gary

They are probably too embarrassed to show its face.

53kyle
Nov 23, 2012, 06:15 PM
I love mountain lion. It seems just as fast as snow leopard on a 4 year old macbook (aluminum). Boot speed is the only downside to me. Also, can someone tell me what is wrong with expose? I don't see anything bad about it...

Mark D
Nov 23, 2012, 07:28 PM
I'm actually kind of surprised at the overwhelming opinion that Snow Leopard was the best. I'm waiting for my first Mac ever to ship so I can't comment on stability or peformance. For what it's worth, I think Lion & Mountain Lion made leaps and bounds in UI. Much more pleasing to the eye. At the same time, I can definitely see the gimmicky "features" putting a downer on the improvements. Oh well, it's still worlds better than Windows any day.

Stonefly
Nov 23, 2012, 08:07 PM
But LION still isn't available to those who can't run Mountain Lion. That's weird.

Gary

Thats weird because I can still download it from the app store because I bought it. You would think they would make it available to others as well.

379329

Snow Leopard performs better than ML and Lion on my late 2009 27 iMac core i7 with 8gb ram for me. It seems to vary on same spec computers.

floling
Nov 23, 2012, 10:18 PM
i am still on 10.6.
simply because i don't want apple to reduce my performance speed, since it's been quite good on this OS! ....

InuNacho
Nov 23, 2012, 11:04 PM
I downgraded my 17 inch MBP the second I got it, no Lion or ML here. The last of the mobile beasts running the best OS.
I don't doubt that iTunes 11 will see a SL release, PPCers just now lost support for the latest iTunes.

Acamerainjapan
Nov 23, 2012, 11:21 PM
I ordered a copy in case I might need it in the future. I still have a legit copy of Final Cut Pro 7 (which despite what you think of FCPX, is still an amazing program), so this gives me the option in the future to put together a cheap and effective video editing station.

MagnusVonMagnum
Nov 24, 2012, 03:10 PM
You've just resigned yourself to living in the past then, as did so many of the old MacOS users when OS X was first released.

The "iPadification process" is all part of the big picture, because like it or not, the future of computing is about users working with both full-blown computer systems and portable devices like the iPad or a smartphone, and expecting an increasing level of integration between them. (Thanks, Mountain Lion, for finally unifying the Tasks and Notes so they're actually useful for me! If I'm at my Mac and want to type up a quick grocery list, I can do it and know that it's going to appear on my iPhone in my coat pocket that I'll take to the store with me. That's the type of functionality we expect these days.)

Yeah right. Ask that guy from Microsoft that got fired over Windows 8's "pad interface" how much he believes in that future now. :rolleyes:

The iPad is a FAD. The thing is just as bulky as newer notebooks, but without all the power and full blown software to work with and no keyboard blows (unless you can't type in which case you probably don't care). I can see adding touchscreen capability to notebooks and even desktops at some point, but the idea that a touch interface could possibly replace the keyboard/mouse for everyone is utter absurdity.

MAYBE some day a voice control interface will replace everyday type appliance computer functions in conjunction with a touch interface, but that day isn't coming any time soon, IMO. I've seen dictation software sold for over a decade and it just plain SUCKS. I rented a Ford Fusion when I was on vacation and it had Microsoft's voice interface and it SUCKED. (E.g. I say, "Play Pink Floyd" and it says, 'The phone book function is not available in this mode' ... WTF!?!) I've seen Siri screw up plenty too and it's doing the number crunching on much better hardware. A true replacement voice system has to be >99.9% reliable to even hope to replace such systems and it's not going to happen this decade and probably not in my lifetime. Clearly, for 'some', iOS type devices are useful, but to those of us that truly like using full blown computers, it's no replacement at all.

And that's where Apple and Microsoft are going wrong. Yes, they have strong sales from non-computer types for newer/simpler/easier interfaces, but that's not where their core computer market is or where it's going or where it's EVER going to go. Maybe that's only 1/5 or even 1/10 of their "appliance" market, but it's still a large market and trying to make appliance operating systems work there is a big mistake, particularly if it's meant to replace rather than just supplement the traditional interfaces.

Personally, I have more of a problem with Windows8 than Mountain Lion. OSX is still there and Launch Pad is just an OPTION right now. Fine. I have no issues with options. Windows8, however, just tries to force you to use a touch pad interface with a traditional mouse/keyboard setup and it's just not as intuitive as the start menu system, particularly when it has to keep switching between that and the desktop. Frankly, I've never understood why companies like Apple just plain hate giving the user some configuration options for how they define their GUI interface. I know Steve Jobs was a control freak and an ego-maniac, so perhaps that explains it in the past, but I'm hoping the future isn't going to be so controlling. Time will tell, but then I never expected Microsoft (traditionally much more accommodating to options and maintaining backwards compatibility) to take such a giant leap with Windows8 (although now it appears they regret it).

ToM7
Nov 24, 2012, 04:16 PM
i'm still on 10.6.8 .. & i remember that was a rumor that 10.6.9 gonna come out.. what's going on with that? anyone knows?..
but you know apple like apple not supporting & update the snow anymore :(:confused:

r.harris1
Nov 24, 2012, 04:24 PM
...
The iPad is a FAD.

....

Clearly, for 'some', iOS type devices are useful, but to those of us that truly like using full blown computers, it's no replacement at all.



Don't think it is a fad, but don't think where it fits in is exactly clear in all cases nor is it clear where they'll evolve. Agree though that at this time, they're not close to replacing full-blown computers. But I'd hope that people wouldn't think that they were meant to be replacements to start with.



Personally, I have more of a problem with Windows8 than Mountain Lion.

Agreed 100%. Not sure that anyone (including Apple) has succeeded in designing a 1-size fits all user interface appropriate to all environments. Not so sure anyone needs to either.

mysticalos
Nov 24, 2012, 10:43 PM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

Just thought i'd mention. versions can be disabled in 10.8. so can auto save. not in 10.7 though but apple did listen to feedback on this.

Performance, 10.7 is miles ahead of 10.6 on opengl performance and driver performance. I have run numerous game tests and benchmark app tests on 10.6 10.7 and 10.8. 10.7 was a huge step up over 10.6. 10.8 was however a small step down from 10.7.

10.7 also brought opengl up to full 3.2 spec which was biggest thing for gaming and 3d apps since 10.6.3 brought preliminary 3.x extention support that ultimately let steam bring a lot more to the mac platform. Point is. your griping about the iOSification without even looking at what's under the hood too.

10.8 is a pile of crap admittedly since it has done nothing SINCE 10.7 for performance or stability. But to argue that 10.6.8 is superior to 10.7 in those regards is flat out wrong. I think the iOSification of OS X is an abominidable but it's still foolish to ignore just how much of a gain 10.7 was over 10.6.8, especially for gaming. (unless of course you have really really crappy hardware that was on it's last legs with 10.6.8 as is, then the higher resources of 10.7 may have negated all the performance gains).

dshan
Nov 25, 2012, 12:02 AM
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.

I wouldn't go back to 10.6.8 for anything (unless the only other option was Windows). I had to use a friend's 10.6.8 system the other day and it was just awful in comparison with 10.8. Made me realise how much OS X has improved recently. Expose is so much better in 10.8 it's not funny, I actually use it nowadays, never did before. Scrolling is better, gestures are great, Launchpad is at least not compulsory, stability of 10.8 is noticeably better than 10.7 (e.g. I can use latest version of Handbrake without it crashing like it did under 10.7). Notification Center is a real and long overdue improvement.

What I wish Apple would do is fix stuff that was forced on us long before 10.6 and we're still stuck with -- stuff like Stacks and Spotlight for starters. I want to be able to disable Stacks; when I click on a folder in the Dock it should open in the Finder not that stupid fan/grid/list nonsense. I want a spotlight that tells me where files are without having to mouse-over it in the results list and press keys to see the path. A Spotlight that can search the Unix side of things too when required.

Eithanius
Nov 25, 2012, 12:12 AM
What I wish Apple would do is fix stuff that was forced on us long before 10.6 and we're still stuck with -- stuff like Stacks and Spotlight for starters. I want to be able to disable Stacks; when I click on a folder in the Dock it should open in the Finder not that stupid fan/grid/list nonsense. I want a spotlight that tells me where files are without having to mouse-over it in the results list and press keys to see the path. A Spotlight that can search the Unix side of things too when required.

You see, that's the point of the blunder here... 10.7 should improvise on those weaknesses of 10.6 features as per what you have said, but sadly Apple took the other way round and introduced more features (hence more bugs) without strengthening the previous ones. Now that the OS X cycle is even halved, I don't think Apple is even bothered to fix their handy work, they just wanna profit more by introducing more and more ****** stuff from iOS...

anthony11
Nov 25, 2012, 02:13 AM
I get Exposé, but seriously, what's wrong with Versions? I've recovered many documents and unwanted changes with it. A great feature.

It slows Finder WAY down when deleting files, such that I have to I use Path Finder instead.

k995
Nov 26, 2012, 02:53 AM
According to your link, XP is nearer 30% (27% of all operating systems, but slightly above 30% of Windows operating systems).

27% of all computers is a far cry from "half the windows user still use XP"

Btw OSX 10.6 or below still makes up 40% of all macs with that logic :


People's faith would be restored in Apple. There's a reason half of all Mac users still use 10.6. If 10.6.7 came out with support, I guarantee you it would win the lion's(no pun intended) share of Mac users.

Member(TM)
Nov 26, 2012, 09:25 AM
27% of all computers is a far cry from "half the windows user still use XP"

Btw OSX 10.6 or below still makes up 40% of all macs with that logic :


People's faith would be restored in Apple. There's a reason half of all Mac users still use 10.6. If 10.6.7 came out with support, I guarantee you it would win the lion's(no pun intended) share of Mac users.

Not arguing that. I was just pointing out that the link you provided didn't say, as you were implying, that only 20% of all Windows users are XP users. It rather suggests that this percentage is between 30.2% and 31.0%, depending on how many of the operating systems under the label "Other" are Windows systems.

Of course, this doesn't affect your argument that it's still far from the claimed "half of all Windows users", but I occasionally display this nitpicking tendency when someone contradicts their own sources.

As for my actual opinion on Windows XP usage, I don't really have one. Statistics from different sources differ much from one another, which puts their reliability into question. See for example:

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomb=*1&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=165

according to whom Windows XP users (44%) are still less than half of all Windows users, but much closer than the data from StatCounter for the same period.

scottsjack
Nov 26, 2012, 01:46 PM
Good old XP. I'm writing this post on XP Pro right now. For what I do at work (obviously not audio or video) XP is great. I've got SL, ML, W7 and W8 at home. For my work use XP offers the best looking, easiest to arrange screens and the best start button/task bar.

At home I prefer W8 for Windows software. With a little bit of fiddling it works pretty nice. Hint; Start8.

Timeraner
Nov 26, 2012, 02:43 PM
Since when did it cost $19.99? Is this a new price drop?

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/28/mac-os-x-snow-leopard-officially-launched-today/

I WAS the one
Nov 26, 2012, 04:54 PM
Please Stop... I hate when people that want to be freeze in time and don't want to upgrade their apps or softwares start complaining about how bad their OS is. I was in that boat but then I realized that you need to spend more money than the OS update to get that new and snappier feeling of a great OS.

Upgrade your apps.. if that doesn't fix it,

Upgrade your drivers... if that doesn't fix it,

Upgrade your Mac (buy a new one)

you will have the best experience if you buy a new Mac, believe me, the era of upgrade ended when Steve Jobs show to the world the unibody solution.

Deal With It!

SanJacinto
Nov 26, 2012, 05:40 PM
Please Stop... I hate when people that want to be freeze in time and don't want to upgrade their apps or softwares start complaining about how bad their OS is. I was in that boat but then I realized that you need to spend more money than the OS update to get that new and snappier feeling of a great OS.

Upgrade your apps.. if that doesn't fix it,

Upgrade your drivers... if that doesn't fix it,

Upgrade your Mac (buy a new one)

you will have the best experience if you buy a new Mac, believe me, the era of upgrade ended when Steve Jobs show to the world the unibody solution.

Deal With It!

Gosh, I am so outdated I can't believe it. SL is such an old OS ...

I think some users are overreacting on both sides. Sure ML and L have their advantages but also disadvantages.
The interface hasn't changed that much that it makes sense to claim that people who are still on 10.6 want to be "frozen in time". Maybe for some folks this is true but for me it's just a question of features (and speed of boot- and shut-down-time (show me a Win7 Machine which boots in 35 Sec with a 5400rpm HDD)).

Believe it or not I still use Front Row in combination with a 15€ HDMI-Mini-Display-Port Cable. This beats the Apple TV in price. So at the moment I don't need an Apple TV Box. Sure, in the future I would like to use AirPlay, but at the moment I have all I need.

Second, I just finished my master thesis and with the old Expose it was a joy to work (I know ML does have the old Expose, but at the time of the 10.8 release I already finished my work).

In my opinion, update for updates sake makes no sense. With an updated browser and the use of common sense I also think that security is not an argument.

MacDav
Nov 26, 2012, 08:59 PM
My Mom is still has snow leopard on her iMac. No need to upgrade really. ;)

Badagri
Nov 26, 2012, 09:08 PM
Deal With It!


In my opinion, update for updates sake makes no sense. With an updated browser and the use of common sense I also think that security is not an argument.

Gosh indeed. We're also in a recession and "deal with it" isn't going to cut it. Impulse buying is no longer in.

jr.veiga
Nov 27, 2012, 05:29 AM
Please add the drivers for current hardware Apple.

Could this be true?? Having my mid 2012 mbp running snow leopard?
Please lord, make it happen!!

Drich290195
Nov 27, 2012, 06:15 AM
i cant find this in the app store is it available for uk users

SanJacinto
Nov 27, 2012, 07:26 AM
i cant find this in the app store is it available for uk users

It's not offered through App Store.
Check Apple UK.

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MC573Z/A/mac-os-x-106-snow-leopard

rdlink
Nov 27, 2012, 07:35 AM
Yes. Ignorant and baseless. "and get rid of versions" - how isn't this ignorant. If this feature is of no use for you it by no means is standing in your way of doing things. Just don't use it.

But that's not the point. The point is that he just wanted to complain. ;) Like the whole host of people who screamed that OS X was doomed when they released natural scrolling direction and disappearing scroll bars, without taking the 2 minutes necessary to discover that they could easily turn those features off.

People get nostalgic, then get stuck. I started using a Mac on Leopard, and have used every OS X version since then. I really liked Snow Leopard, and can understand why others did, also. But honestly, when I run a SL machine now the only time I can tell a difference between it and my ML machine is when a feature I've come to depend on in ML is not available.

Saying that SL is better than ML is like saying that Windows XP is better than Windows 7. There can be subjective disagreements about some individual features, but objectively neither of those statements is true.

Spectrum
Nov 27, 2012, 08:23 AM
Since when did it cost $19.99? Is this a new price drop?

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/28/mac-os-x-snow-leopard-officially-launched-today/

£14 on the UK store. That does sound cheaper than before! But like others said, this disk really should be 10.6.8 so that it is a "universal" upgrade solution for all Macs able to boot SL.

Even better would be the addition of drivers for late 2011 and 2012 Macs...

There are a number of things useful to me that that work better in SL.

1. Expose - L/ML has wasted space at the top for full screen apps (that I don't use).

2. Expose - L is more jerky and sluggish (on a 2011 Mac mini HD3000).

3. Scrolling/animation - L is more jerky and sluggish (on a 2011 Mac mini HD3000)

4. Spotlight - Dictionary - I use Spotlight tens/hundreds of time to search for dictionary definitions. Dictionary hits are now hidden down the list of search results in Lion - that slows me WAY down.

5. Rosetta - compatibility for old apps that are still useful but that are no longer under active development (and which have no current substitute - think proprietary scientific software in may case).

Anyway, this has all been said over and over last year. Each to their own, but I'm about to buy a last gen MBPro (SL compatible) from the refurb store. It should keep me going until at least 2017.

The only small thing that concerns me is that 2013 iPads may need a Mac with L/ML to sync...but I could always dual boot for initial setup. Most of my iPad apps sync using their own cloud services.

Joseph Farrugia
Nov 28, 2012, 05:18 PM
Dear me. Yes, it definitely tells us everything.

More proof that you have absolutely no clue of what is being discussed.

Cubytus
Nov 29, 2012, 12:09 AM
Same question has been asked, but from what I read nobidy seem to have provided an answer. Is it the 10.6.8 with updated drivers for 2012 Macs ? The website lists is as only requiring an "Intel CPU", which could basically mean any current Mac, including the Retina ones.

Had my late-2011 MBP checked in for regular FireWire-caused freezes, and the techie called me to perform another test. He wanted to "upgrade" me to Lion, and I served him with an authoritarian "NO". He readily understood why, first as my scanner isn't supported well in Lion and manufacturer's software is PowerPC-only. Plus plenty of other reason pertaining to usability.

That is not to say that Lion and ML are not usable, far from it. But the transition from the "old" way to the "new" way is simply too great to adapt to quickly. IMHO Apple was eager to set the basis for the "new" way, but thus doing, neglected to take care of the "experience" itself.

Such can be seen in the current MBP Retina design: Apple cut remote control capability, you can't lock your computer to a heavy object anymore, no more optical drive, smaller storage, but you get faster storage and stunning screen.

Disclaimer: I work in a multi-platform environment, including different Linux flavors on older machines, and sometimes receive cheap hardware from China whose software sit on an 8cm CD-ROM. Even if it's bulky for the amount of data held, optical media is still the fastest and easiest way to boot any computer. Here's the reason why I still have 15 DVD-RW for that only purpose - burn a variety of Linux distros and diagnostic tools.

However, I will still run a hacked ML in VirtualBox, see if I can get used to it. Surely 16GB of RAM won't hurt :)

stroked
Nov 29, 2012, 12:27 AM
Had my late-2011 MBP checked in for regular FireWire-caused freezes, and the techie called me to perform another test. He wanted to "upgrade" me to Lion,

)

I thought the early 2011 MBP was the last to boot to SL.

Eithanius
Nov 29, 2012, 12:41 AM
Same question has been asked, but from what I read nobidy seem to have provided an answer. Is it the 10.6.8 with updated drivers for 2012 Macs ? The website lists is as only requiring an "Intel CPU", which could basically mean any current Mac, including the Retina ones.


Where on earth did you get such thing as 10.6.8 WITH UPDATED DRIVERS...?

Snow Leopard cut short of maintenance supports ever since Lion came out, and so far what's supported are the periodical security updates in tandem with its successors' maintenance update releases. Heck, the next update on 10.8.3, we don't even know if there are any further security updates for SL.

As long as Apple is putting out the current OS X, that is what's gonna be the minimum requirements on all shipping Macs. Lion was released in July 2011, and Mountain Lion 12 months after. So Macs released in 2012 WILL NOT run 10.6.8. Period.

For the record, "Intel CPU only" was meant to address the issue AT THAT TIME of 10.6 being the first Mac OS X release to run solely on Intel CPU. Snow Leopard have abandoned the PowerPC architecture, unlike the immediate predecessor 10.5 Leopard which runs on both architectures. It does not mean it can be installed on current Macs, even though they are still Intel CPU.

Cubytus
Nov 29, 2012, 10:22 AM
I thought the early 2011 MBP was the last to boot to SL.It was, indeed, and this is the reason why I could reinstall it without major hitch, once I laid my hands on another, older MB. Funnily enough, when I checked in this computer for a HDD cable replacement (was causing kernel panics), the Genius didn't ask and reinstalled Snow Leopard (they originally refused my request when I bought the machine early 2012.) using a HDD-based 10.6.8 with iLife in it. Don't know however if they used an already-existing DVD image, or made this image in-house.

Where on earth did you get such thing as 10.6.8 WITH UPDATED DRIVERS...?RELAX! THIS IS ONLY A QUESTION!

Snow Leopard cut short of maintenance supports ever since Lion came out, and so far what's supported are the periodical security updates in tandem with its successors' maintenance update releases. Heck, the next update on 10.8.3, we don't even know if there are any further security updates for SL.

As long as Apple is putting out the current OS X, that is what's gonna be the minimum requirements on all shipping Macs. Lion was released in July 2011, and Mountain Lion 12 months after. So Macs released in 2012 WILL NOT run 10.6.8. Period.

For the record, "Intel CPU only" was meant to address the issue AT THAT TIME of 10.6 being the first Mac OS X release to run solely on Intel CPU. Snow Leopard have abandoned the PowerPC architecture, unlike the immediate predecessor 10.5 Leopard which runs on both architectures. It does not mean it can be installed on current Macs, even though they are still Intel CPU.This is a valid understatement considering Apple isn't used to develop more than one OS at a time. However, the same kind of imprecision is not typical from Apple, as Intel include all Apple computers from 2006 to now. Hence the supposition that Apple may have included, one way or another, updated drivers for newer machines in its Snow Leopard.

Lion was flawed and "dumbed down", as a variety of source point it, and there was initially a large backlash against it from previous OS X version users. As far as I know, this is the only Mac OS X version that triggered such a strong reaction with tutorials to reverse to SL flourishing over the Internet. Proof is, Apple quickly released Mountain Lion a small year after the first Lion release. And what would be the point of re-releasing an old version of the software if it didn't serve any purpose. Meeting the minimum requirements for ML may be such a reason.

On the other hand, do machines that originally shipped with Leopard (the ones likely, according to your statement, to need an upgrade to SL) have the necessary grunt to run Mountain Lion?

Trust it or not, a lot of people need to run PowerPC software (Proprietary scientific software for a 5-figures 256 electrodes EEG system, for example), and as Rosetta isn't under Apple's control, updating drivers on 10.6.8 may be easier than trying to get Rosetta running on ML.

Eithanius
Nov 29, 2012, 11:18 AM
This is a valid understatement considering Apple isn't used to develop more than one OS at a time. However, the same kind of imprecision is not typical from Apple, as Intel include all Apple computers from 2006 to now. Hence the supposition that Apple may have included, one way or another, updated drivers for newer machines in its Snow Leopard.

Lion was flawed and "dumbed down", as a variety of source point it, and there was initially a large backlash against it from previous OS X version users. As far as I know, this is the only Mac OS X version that triggered such a strong reaction with tutorials to reverse to SL flourishing over the Internet. Proof is, Apple quickly released Mountain Lion a small year after the first Lion release. And what would be the point of re-releasing an old version of the software if it didn't serve any purpose. Meeting the minimum requirements for ML may be such a reason.

On the other hand, do machines that originally shipped with Leopard (the ones likely, according to your statement, to need an upgrade to SL) have the necessary grunt to run Mountain Lion?

Trust it or not, a lot of people need to run PowerPC software (Proprietary scientific software for a 5-figures 256 electrodes EEG system, for example), and as Rosetta isn't under Apple's control, updating drivers on 10.6.8 may be easier than trying to get Rosetta running on ML.

I don't want to split hairs here, but to cut things short, updated drivers on Snow Leopard is SO NOT going to happen. Apple is now 2 major release ahead of Snow Leopard, and you would think they will have to drill down to all the new components since late 2011 models just to incorporate drivers so that you guys can run PowerPC apps...? It's time to move on. Even my time with PPC apps are numbered I admit. So it's either you're forced to upgrade, or forced to be left behind. It's called progress...

Look at it as a transition, like the transition from OS 9 to OS X... Lion and Mountain Lion probably represents some sort of a new soft-architecture (pardon my limited vocabulary), it's probably a major rewrite of their underlying codes to incorporate new technologies like sand-boxing and the likes.

To put this on Snow Leopard, I think Apple would have to denote a separate team leading to 2 separate OS X versions. While I personally love to see Apple do that, it sounds more like Micro***** with their Basic and Pro versions. And Apple is not a software company to start with.

As for machines that shipped with Leopard, I believe there's either some confusion between what I meant as the last OS to support PowerPC Macs, and your... whatever you wanna believe that to be - I have no idea what you're talking about... :p


Here's my questions to you since I'm curious of how things work here:

If Apple issues updated drivers for Snow Leopard, how would you install it on Lion- and Mountain Lion-shipped Macs...? Using the disc above...? Remember that these Macs do not have pre-installation discs, only with a Recovery HD partition...

Use the disc like the one they're selling on the Online Store...? Those disc comes only with 10.6.3, updated drivers are a little far fetched now...

Issue an updated disc with 10.6.8 WITH updated drivers on it...? Kinda break their ways of putting in custom-build OS X tied to each individual machines ain't it...? By then Apple will have 2 competing OS X'es now...


I'm really curious what you have in mind for Apple. Because now I'm really wishing you'd be working for Apple, so that I get to ditch my current MBP and opt for a rMBP with Snow Leopard UPDATED with Retina support... :D:D

Cubytus
Nov 29, 2012, 05:06 PM
Precisely, you completely missed the point. It has absolutely nothing to do with PowerPC. I believe that users have lots of reasons save for Rosetta to run SL. Only, it is an easy example that I develop.

"Time to move on" is NOT under the user's control. It is under the editor's control. Apple already shown that newer version sometimes just don't have the capabilities of older ones; the software may not be updated by its but still need to be used, as my EEG example showed. One doesn't replace a 5-figures EEG system just because Apple said it must be.

"Progress" is not dumbing everything down. Mac administrators tend not to like Lion or ML. These will surely be improved but in the meantime, they get training on both SL and Lion/ML. There's no point in being miles ahead when you're not followed. To your credit, new Mac users are probably very happy with their Lion/ML. As you point it, there are a lot of interesting technologies built in ML and Lion. Again, this has nothing to do with the backlash from users. What's missing is what caused the backlash, and I really can't list all missing features and useless ones and instabilities that many complain about.

Only mines that are: need PowerPC compatibility, useless Launchpad, stability issues with eduroam network, ****** App Store that suggest an update even when platform isn't compatible.

All said that, for multiple reasons, people may just not have upgraded yet, or worse, looked for a downgrade.

Nobody said it was the right thing to incorporate everything new in SL. After all, if such an extensive effort was required, just update ML! Remember that SL was considered in its time to be a welcomed refinement of an excellent OS, Leopard. Putting the least amount of effort to make SL compatible is not incorporating radical changes such as sandboxing (I am unsure it's not included at all in SL) or Retina support. Just "connecting" updated drivers, and leave everything else the same.

To answer your questions:
- People would buy 10.6.8 discs with updated drivers retail, and install SL on their Lion/Mountain Lion-shipped machines.

- Genius bar uses 10.6.8 images on their troubleshooting HDD that work on ALL machines. Why this version wouldn't exist on a DVD?

- it surely isn't in Apple's habit to go back. But to refresh your short memory, they did shipped both custom images of any OS that was current at the time with all new machines, along with universal images of the same OSes on DVD or CD-ROM for retail sale.

Now, they ship machines with a recovery partition and network-capable BIOS to re-create it if needed, and all software images. But so far, Lion and I believe also Mountain Lion recovery mechanisms are completely unable to hook onto a web-authenticated or WPA2-Enterprise authenticated network, which I found was a major hindrance.

As neither of us is working for Apple, I consider my questions to be reasonable.

Eithanius
Nov 29, 2012, 10:24 PM
To cut things short, it's time for you to look for other platforms... :D:D

Believe me, I'd wish the latest hardware can run Snow Leopard as well, but to have SL to run on rMBPs alone will already give Apple the headache, they probably messed up SL WITH your so-called updated drivers after the L/ML debacle. I still don't understand why can't you see the point...

It's regression to say the least... Just look at iTunes 11, I see the L/ML factor already. Slow and buggy...

jalebibai
Nov 30, 2012, 12:46 AM
can i buy as home user

r.harris1
Nov 30, 2012, 06:40 AM
More proof that you have absolutely no clue of what is being discussed.

Sorry you feel that way. It's definitely true I don't get the vitriole aimed at ML and to be honest, when someone is asked a question and they respond with "I used to have a Mac Pro, that should tell you all you need to know", I lose hope in humanity. Such a response doesn't tell anyone anything, except what that person thinks of themselves. Lots of people have had or have Mac pros, including self. I also like and use ML. Neither of those tells you absolutely anything about how I work or the sort of work I do. Although, since I use ML, I guess it also follows that I wasn't married to a particular style of workflow that SL dictated and I didn't use Rosetta apps I cared a great deal about. I've also been an Apple user for 20 years and have learned to not get married to anything except change. But that might be as far as you can take it.

Cubytus
Nov 30, 2012, 02:17 PM
To cut things short, it's time for you to look for other platforms... :D:DThere is no 1-stop support for any other platform, period. I used to run Ubuntu back from 2007 to 2008 as I got fed up with Window's constant requirements for attention and unexpected issues. Don't get me wrong here, I ran Windows 2000 Pro as a daily driver before that and I considered it even more stable than (gasp!) Mac OS X, as I could routinely get uptimes of 60 days or more on an indestructible Celeron 500MHz. I then got a powerful laptop PC back in 2004 that also ran Windows 2000 Pro, but was a lemon that ended up costing more in repairs & back and forth shipping before UPS stole it in 2006.

I like tinkering with computers, but got past the age I had hours or days to spend doing so. Even if I *do* know how to repair many computer issues, I just don't want to go through the hassle of doing it myself. Hence, after a disastrous experience - term is important, I'm talking about commercial respect, customer support more than the machine itself - with a supposedly premium laptop PC, my natural choice was an Apple laptop. Much lighter, almost inaudible, three times the battery life, and just one place to go when a quirk appears.

Sure, Apple's OS has many half-baked functions - think only monolingual Dictionary application, underdeveloped Services, no real manual for Automator, iSync, etc. - but they don't really get in your way.

Believe me, I'd wish the latest hardware can run Snow Leopard as well, but to have SL to run on rMBPs alone will already give Apple the headache, they probably messed up SL WITH your so-called updated drivers after the L/ML debacle. I still don't understand why can't you see the point...

It's regression to say the least... Just look at iTunes 11, I see the L/ML factor already. Slow and buggy...Why are you using a past tense here? Until proven wrong, Apple has NOT integrated newer drivers in its SL yet. This is merely a *supposition* considering they typically are more precise when listing hardware requirements.

Eithanius
Nov 30, 2012, 10:23 PM
Why are you using a past tense here? Until proven wrong, Apple has NOT integrated newer drivers in its SL yet. This is merely a *supposition* considering they typically are more precise when listing hardware requirements.

What makes you think they haven't...? That's why I'm curious, do you work for Apple that you're absolutely certain they haven't...?

You brag about supposition, and yet you're conflicting yourself...? :p:p

Else consider my England sucks...

Cubytus
Dec 2, 2012, 10:15 PM
What makes you think they haven't...? That's why I'm curious, do you work for Apple that you're absolutely certain they haven't...?

You brag about supposition, and yet you're conflicting yourself...? :p:p

Else consider my England sucks...Even assuming you're a native English speaker, which I admit am not, I believe you're the only one to see a contradiction here. It seems that powerful grammatical correctors applications just don't exist for the English language.

This was perfectly clear from the start I inferred that 10.6.8 may have been modified to suit "Macintoshes with Intel CPU", and it seems you agreed they may have failed trying to do so. What Apple tried but didn't release stays within Apple's archives. The inference remains such "until proven wrong" by an official Apple statement, a post by a forum user showing screen captures, etc. Seems you have trouble telling inferences from conclusions.

Eithanius
Dec 2, 2012, 11:30 PM
Even assuming you're a native English speaker, which I admit am not, I believe you're the only one to see a contradiction here. It seems that powerful grammatical correctors applications just don't exist for the English language.

This was perfectly clear from the start I inferred that 10.6.8 may have been modified to suit "Macintoshes with Intel CPU", and it seems you agreed they may have failed trying to do so. What Apple tried but didn't release stays within Apple's archives. The inference remains such "until proven wrong" by an official Apple statement, a post by a forum user showing screen captures, etc. Seems you have trouble telling inferences from conclusions.

This is turning into a pointless discussion... Go do what you do best stated on your signature and we'll see about Apple resurrecting Snow Leopard on 2012 and the upcoming 2013 Macs...

MagnusVonMagnum
Dec 3, 2012, 03:14 PM
I've got my new Mac Mini Server Quad i7 up and running with 10.8.2 and the latest server software update now. Overall, the only thing I really miss from Snow Leopard (and Leopard) is the "Spaces" setup it had. I'm not sure how to set up a separate work area yet (obvious in Snow Leopard). Launch Control is just an extra option and frankly works quite well for finding certain apps very quickly (not a huge fan of the default list mode when you click something like the downloads folder since it defaults to the MIDDLE of the freaking list instead of the top (like Leopard does). I'm not sure if there's a way to change that behavior (doubt it given Apple's nature). I think there's a few defaults that need to be changed on a stock setup based on using my mother's new Macbook I got her (seeing I migrated my old PPC machine, most of its settings were carried over automatically to Mountain Lion, including a few things that don't work, but they weren't too hard to remove).

Sadly, I can't use Office 2004 any longer and I don't know if I want to spend anything on the newer M$ Office since I really only use it for writing lyrics (and my album is done so I won't even be doing that for awhile) and the occasional printing labels. I'll probably just get OpenOffice or something instead or install my Office 2000 for Windows in XP in a virtual machine or whatever).

Photoshop CS3 DOES appear to work fine here, though (from limited testing so far; the migration tool set it all up automatically so if there's an install issue like I read in some threads elsewhere with Lion, at least, it must have bypassed it).

Games like Diablo 2 don't work any longer, but I figure I can set up a virtual machine with my old XP Pro or something or use one of the Wine binaries out there. I think most of my other software works or updates of it do (e.g. CCC needed an update, but since I donated a long time ago, I got a free license and it's up and running now as well). I've probably missed something, but overall, it's just not THAT different to be too upset (plus my MBP still has Snow Leopard on it for now; I'll see how the Mini goes for awhile longer before I decide to upgrade or not there; my Netbook has Snow Leopard on it too for that matter and always will since it's 32-bit).

Eidorian
Dec 3, 2012, 03:16 PM
I am late to the party but Apple, while proud of its new OS adoption rate, just had to admit to the fact that people are not running the latest hardware and are going to get left out of the cash cow iTunes/iDevice without keeping Snow Leopard support around.

Cubytus
Dec 4, 2012, 11:44 AM
I am late to the party but Apple, while proud of its new OS adoption rate, just had to admit to the fact that people are not running the latest hardware and are going to get left out of the cash cow iTunes/iDevice without keeping Snow Leopard support around.Well, we can relax a bit. Most software are still Snow Leopard compatible, so there's no hurry to ditch it.

----------

This is turning into a pointless discussion... Go do what you do best stated on your signature and we'll see about Apple resurrecting Snow Leopard on 2012 and the upcoming 2013 Macs...I did, FYI. And as it may surprise you, that was not to complain about SL dying, but pointing Lion's blatant flaws that are right in your face. I can't say anything about Mountain Lion as I still can't get it to boot on Virtual Box.

Aluminum213
Dec 4, 2012, 12:47 PM
My brother has a 2008 iMac which shipped with leopard 10.5, should he upgrade to 10.6 snow leopard?

Cubytus
Dec 4, 2012, 10:47 PM
My brother has a 2008 iMac which shipped with leopard 10.5, should he upgrade to 10.6 snow leopard?I would say "definitely". SL strengthens the basis of Leopard, an excellent OS, doesn'T add many features, hence, more stable.

I WAS the one
Dec 5, 2012, 06:35 AM
Gosh, I am so outdated I can't believe it. SL is such an old OS ...

I think some users are overreacting on both sides. Sure ML and L have their advantages but also disadvantages.
The interface hasn't changed that much that it makes sense to claim that people who are still on 10.6 want to be "frozen in time". Maybe for some folks this is true but for me it's just a question of features (and speed of boot- and shut-down-time (show me a Win7 Machine which boots in 35 Sec with a 5400rpm HDD)).

Believe it or not I still use Front Row in combination with a 15€ HDMI-Mini-Display-Port Cable. This beats the Apple TV in price. So at the moment I don't need an Apple TV Box. Sure, in the future I would like to use AirPlay, but at the moment I have all I need.

Second, I just finished my master thesis and with the old Expose it was a joy to work (I know ML does have the old Expose, but at the time of the 10.8 release I already finished my work).

In my opinion, update for updates sake makes no sense. With an updated browser and the use of common sense I also think that security is not an argument.

I'm picturing you using a Newton on a 1966 Mustang

SanJacinto
Dec 5, 2012, 10:35 AM
I'm picturing you using a Newton on a 1966 Mustang

No chance, I am still using a horse-drawn carriage.

I WAS the one
Dec 5, 2012, 12:12 PM
No chance, I am still using a horse-drawn carriage.

LOL I'm following you with my horse using an eMate!

lawlist
Dec 5, 2012, 12:57 PM
So does this mean that iTunes 11 will run on SL?


Yes. I'm already running it.

----------

Apple still periodically releases stuff for Snow Leopard. They just recently did an upgrade to Mail.app and broke my favorite plug-in -- I had to reinstall the OS on two computers and not apply the update.

AQUADock
Dec 5, 2012, 12:58 PM
Yes. I'm already running it.

I know that, I asked that question before iTunes 11 was out.

vea1083
Dec 21, 2012, 02:31 PM
The Holy Trinity: Serlet, Ive, and Jobs.
Amen to that! :)

OnceYouGoMac
Dec 29, 2012, 07:44 PM
LOL I'm following you with my horse using an eMate!

:D Well it's gotta be better than Apple Maps on iOS 6...

AnonMac50
Dec 31, 2012, 09:18 AM
Just to add for those that say Snow Leopard's Exposé is back in Mountain Lion: It is not. I have ungrouped windows on my Mac Pro, but that's only partially there.


There is no Dock Exposé
Minimised windows do not show in Mission Control


Until the 2 previous issues are fixed, I will still prefer Snow Leopard's Exposé over Mountain Lion's Mission Control.

If we were to talk about Spaces…
don't get me started on that.

MagnusVonMagnum
Dec 31, 2012, 11:16 AM
Just to add for those that say Snow Leopard's Exposé is back in Mountain Lion: It is not. I have ungrouped windows on my Mac Pro, but that's only partially there.

There is no Dock Exposé


It's now a part of Mission Control (i.e. they combined Spaces and Expose into "Mission Control". You now get two for one action, which I happen to like. I do think they should offer an option setting for this, though, but as most of us know, Apple doesn't like giving options. There IS a dock icon for Mission Control, so knowing it's combined, this renders your point moot except to say you wish they weren't grouped together.


Minimised windows do not show in Mission Control


But they do show on the dock where you minimized them to. In other words, they were minimized for a reason and they are not "stacked" over top of each other on the main screen, which was the entire reason for Expose in the first place, IMO. It unclutters piles of windows. If the windows aren't cluttered because they are docked/minimized, why show them? You don't remember minimizing them? I understand why you'd want it to show everything possible, but by the same token, should it create windows for every CLI/SHELL process too? That's Activity Manager's job. I think Apple simply took the core function of Expose and made it declutter open windows, not docked ones (which would only ADD more windows to show at once. They figure if you docked them, that's where you want them. Technically, that's not about clutter any more and therefore doesn't need decluttered.


Until the 2 previous issues are fixed, I will still prefer Snow Leopard's Exposé over Mountain Lion's Mission Control.


And I liked having Rosetta, but time moves on. I found Windows versions of the games that would no longer run (which teaches me to always buy games on places like Steam that give you BOTH Mac and Windows versions of games OR to buy only the Windows version when given a choice, since I can always run that in something like VMWare in the future whereas Apple has proven they don't care if you can run old software. Frankly, VMWare even runs Windows98 perfectly, even (albeit minus DirectX 3D accleration, which isn't needed for most games with powerful CPUs to do software rendering for those old games which weren't that complex). Sadly, you cannot run older Mac operating systems in VMWare and you can thank Apple for that too. :mad:


If we were to talk about Spaces…
don't get me started on that.

Again, I don't see a problem. Unless you used like 12 spaces, the combined Mission Control function for spaces is more than adequate for 4-6 screens and I can create/remove additional spaces on the fly (rather than having to adjust preferences) and every OSX8 aware application can create its own full screen space with a click on the upper right corner arrows button. I think it's pretty spiffy (and I didn't think I would like it before I got my new computer that forced Mission Control one me).

Now LaunchPad...that I don't really care for, but if it were more easily configured, I can see some good uses for it (it's really more or less a dock alternative, looking like the iOS pages, which means you could configure it only for gaming or some other app type and not have to clutter the main dock with it or folders for it).

My biggest complaint about OSX in general is its sloppy handling of multiple monitors. This is nothing new, though. It has always sucked. What I don't understand is why Apple doesn't DO SOMETHING about it. They could either offer pop-up dock/menus when you move the arrow to the top or offer additional fixed ones. It gets utterly ridiculous when you have 4 monitors to have to move the pointer across multiple monitor screens just to get to the overhead menu or a dock menu. This could be so EASILY fixed, it's RIDICULOUS that it hasn't been addressed yet and I'd encourage people to let Apple know we want a fix/solution for multiple monitors.

Microsoft simply never had that problem with multiple monitors because their menus are attached to the windows, not the top of the screen. Linux, likewise, is more or less configurable to any possible configuration you can imagine (and if not, someone will probably create one).

JoeRito
Dec 31, 2012, 11:45 AM
Looks like the Server version is not available so we won't be able to run SL virtualized using Parallels 8 on a Mountain Lion MBP :mad:

AnonMac50
Jan 1, 2013, 05:48 AM
It's now a part of Mission Control (i.e. they combined Spaces and Expose into "Mission Control". You now get two for one action, which I happen to like. I do think they should offer an option setting for this, though, but as most of us know, Apple doesn't like giving options. There IS a dock icon for Mission Control, so knowing it's combined, this renders your point moot except to say you wish they weren't grouped together.



But they do show on the dock where you minimized them to. In other words, they were minimized for a reason and they are not "stacked" over top of each other on the main screen, which was the entire reason for Expose in the first place, IMO. It unclutters piles of windows. If the windows aren't cluttered because they are docked/minimized, why show them? You don't remember minimizing them? I understand why you'd want it to show everything possible, but by the same token, should it create windows for every CLI/SHELL process too? That's Activity Manager's job. I think Apple simply took the core function of Expose and made it declutter open windows, not docked ones (which would only ADD more windows to show at once. They figure if you docked them, that's where you want them. Technically, that's not about clutter any more and therefore doesn't need decluttered.



And I liked having Rosetta, but time moves on. I found Windows versions of the games that would no longer run (which teaches me to always buy games on places like Steam that give you BOTH Mac and Windows versions of games OR to buy only the Windows version when given a choice, since I can always run that in something like VMWare in the future whereas Apple has proven they don't care if you can run old software. Frankly, VMWare even runs Windows98 perfectly, even (albeit minus DirectX 3D accleration, which isn't needed for most games with powerful CPUs to do software rendering for those old games which weren't that complex). Sadly, you cannot run older Mac operating systems in VMWare and you can thank Apple for that too. :mad:



Again, I don't see a problem. Unless you used like 12 spaces, the combined Mission Control function for spaces is more than adequate for 4-6 screens and I can create/remove additional spaces on the fly (rather than having to adjust preferences) and every OSX8 aware application can create its own full screen space with a click on the upper right corner arrows button. I think it's pretty spiffy (and I didn't think I would like it before I got my new computer that forced Mission Control one me).

Now LaunchPad...that I don't really care for, but if it were more easily configured, I can see some good uses for it (it's really more or less a dock alternative, looking like the iOS pages, which means you could configure it only for gaming or some other app type and not have to clutter the main dock with it or folders for it).

My biggest complaint about OSX in general is its sloppy handling of multiple monitors. This is nothing new, though. It has always sucked. What I don't understand is why Apple doesn't DO SOMETHING about it. They could either offer pop-up dock/menus when you move the arrow to the top or offer additional fixed ones. It gets utterly ridiculous when you have 4 monitors to have to move the pointer across multiple monitor screens just to get to the overhead menu or a dock menu. This could be so EASILY fixed, it's RIDICULOUS that it hasn't been addressed yet and I'd encourage people to let Apple know we want a fix/solution for multiple monitors.

Microsoft simply never had that problem with multiple monitors because their menus are attached to the windows, not the top of the screen. Linux, likewise, is more or less configurable to any possible configuration you can imagine (and if not, someone will probably create one).

Dock Expose is not having a Dock icon. It's when you click and hold an icon and it does an app exposé for that app. True, I can still use app exposé, but this way is shorter.

I don't minimize the icons into the dock. I minimize them into the app icons. Makes it a lot less cluttered. By doing a normal exposé I would be able see minimized icons.

As for spaces, use a 3x3 grid or a 4x4 grid, depending on what I'm doing right now on the computer.

Lil Chillbil
Jan 3, 2013, 09:12 PM
This is awesome even though I still have my dvd

I love you snow leopard!!!

I WAS the one
Jan 8, 2013, 10:58 AM
:d well it's gotta be better than apple maps on ios 6...

lmfao

MagnusVonMagnum
Jan 9, 2013, 09:55 AM
Dock Expose is not having a Dock icon. It's when you click and hold an icon and it does an app exposé for that app. True, I can still use app exposé, but this way is shorter.

Missed this reply somehow...

Yeah, I see no reason why they shouldn't activate the application window expose when you hold the dock icon down. A menu list isn't as useful if its name isn't obvious. However, just moving the pointer slightly to the right and selecting "Show All Windows" does the same thing you're asking for (App Expose), so I don't think it's quite the PITA that you're making it out to be, but could be tweaked or an option to do it automatically (although some might not want the screen graphically changing every time they hold an icon if they just wanted another option so I can see why it might need to at least default to not doing it unless you select show all windows (takes all of a fraction of a second more with a mouse, at least). I just tried minimize into applications and the expose there shows smaller windows at the bottom for minimized windows and larger ones at the top for ones not minimized, but they are at least visible.

In any case, it's a shame Apple doesn't listen to feedback very often (unless a LOT of people basically spam the heck out of them with complaints). It'd be nice if they had a forum where a developer or two basically kept an eye on things and corresponded back. Their current system of having forums with literally NO ONE from Apple (other than moderators to remove language, etc.) is kind of horrible. If small scale companies can manage to interact on their own sites, certainly the richest company in the known Universe should be able to.

cincygolfgrrl
Jan 11, 2013, 09:53 AM
It's most likely 10.6.6 or above as that's when the Mac App Store came to fruition.

I picked up my disk yesterday at my local Apple Store. It's 10.6.3.

My reason for getting SL is that in addition to an MBA-11 with ML, I also have a 1st Generation MacMini with 1GB or RAM. It came with Lion installed and I never upgraded it. Now I need to upgrade.

Does anyone remember issues that might have occurred when you upgraded from 10.5 to 10.6? Thanks.

KnightWRX
Jan 11, 2013, 09:57 AM
Dock Expose is not having a Dock icon. It's when you click and hold an icon and it does an app exposé for that app. True, I can still use app exposé, but this way is shorter.

How is clicking and holding an icon shorter than Mouse 4 (which is what I have it binded to) ? :confused:

Eithanius
Jan 11, 2013, 10:08 AM
Does anyone remember issues that might have occurred when you upgraded from 10.5 to 10.6? Thanks.

10.5 -> Backup -> Fresh install 10.6.3 -> Update to 10.6.8...

A big guarantee it will be no problem... In fact you may find some of your problems on 10.5.x resolved in 10.6.8... :p:p:D

MagnusVonMagnum
Jan 11, 2013, 05:18 PM
How is clicking and holding an icon shorter than Mouse 4 (which is what I have it binded to) ? :confused:

Gee, I dunno...maybe some people use Mouse 4 for something else (e.g. I use Mouse 4 and 5 for ZOOM to adjust web pages instantly to a size I like if they default too small or too large). Plus some people may not have Mice with 4 or 5 buttons to begin with. I'm sure you don't think everyone likes things exactly like you, after all. Oh wait. I forgot whom I am talking to. :rolleyes:

AnonMac50
Jan 12, 2013, 03:38 AM
How is clicking and holding an icon shorter than Mouse 4 (which is what I have it binded to) ? :confused:

Mouse 4? As in a 4 button mouse? I definitely do not have one of those.

It is also shorter when you want to click and hold on another app.

And if yu prefer pressing ping it differently, your choice, I'm just saying they had a perfectly good way of doing something. At least keeping an option to turn it on would have been good. Even in Snow Leopard you had an option to turn it off.

1934hotrod
Jan 29, 2013, 08:19 PM
Snow leopard is staying on my machines. This lion thing seems to just annoy the user instead of assisting. I've heard folks rave about all the app updates and notices from the different social media resources, to me that is a huge invasion.

Hell cell phones are the greatest invasion, now they have turned the desk top into another irritant . No thanks Apple & ML, I refuse to allow outside sources to manage my life or time, one must PAY me $$$$$ for that privilege.

Just the way I roll:cool:

bigpoppamac31
Jun 18, 2013, 04:52 PM
I have a MBP (Early 2011) refurb. It shipped with Lion although I was hoping it would have shipped with SL. If I bought a copy of SL from the Apple online store could I install it on my Mac as a downgrade? i think my big concern is that my apps are all updated so they may be new enough that that won't support SL. I have not upgraded to ML so I'm still on Lion. Many people still say that SL is the best OSX Apple has done so far. I had SL on my previous Macbook (black) but when I got my new MBP I transferred everything from my bootable SL backup and wrote over it with a Lion backup. In any event would a downgrade be doable?

MichaelLAX
Jun 23, 2013, 06:20 PM
I have a MBP (Early 2011) refurb. It shipped with Lion although I was hoping it would have shipped with SL. If I bought a copy of SL from the Apple online store could I install it on my Mac as a downgrade? i think my big concern is that my apps are all updated so they may be new enough that that won't support SL. I have not upgraded to ML so I'm still on Lion. Many people still say that SL is the best OSX Apple has done so far. I had SL on my previous Macbook (black) but when I got my new MBP I transferred everything from my bootable SL backup and wrote over it with a Lion backup. In any event would a downgrade be doable?

MacBookPro8,1 or 8,2 or 8,3 can run off of Snow Leopard, but not from the "retail" Mac OS X Snow Leopard Install DVD versions sold by Apple.

That is because the retail version currently sold is 10.6.3 and your Mac requires 10.6.6 to boot.

Here are your choices:

Install Snow Leopard onto an external hard drive connected to a Mac that will boot from the retail version. Use Software Upgrade to bring it up to date, including 10.6.8. Clone it and move the clone over to your MBP.

Call 800-MY-APPLE (have model and serial number readyO and see if they will provide the Snow Leopard Restore DVD for your model. If they will, it will cost about $17.

Search the internet for the method to create a modified retail Install DVD to 10.6.7 and use this modified version.

CarlSGutekunst
Jul 8, 2013, 11:42 PM
MacBookPro8,1 or 8,2 or 8,3 can run off of Snow Leopard, but not from the "retail" Mac OS X Snow Leopard Install DVD versions sold by Apple....

Call 800-MY-APPLE (have model and serial number ready) and see if they will provide the Snow Leopard Restore DVD for your model. If they will, it will cost about $17.

I believe the Restore DVD for these machine is Lion, not Snow Leopard. I called both 800-MY-APPLE and the local Genius Bar, and was told that a Snow Leopard restore DVD was not available for my hardware.

There was a detailed discussion on this topic here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1275346

My solution was to purchase a 10.6.3 DVD, acquire a 10.6.7 image from a trustworthy friend, install from the 10.6.7 image, and then apply the patch to 10.6.8. There are important details; you should read the above thread.

MichaelLAX
Jul 10, 2013, 12:37 PM
I am glad to see you followed my instructions perfectly and followed my third suggested solution:

Search the internet for the method to create a modified retail Install DVD to 10.6.7 and use this modified version.

Only, in your case, the internet was your trustworthy friend!

Unfortunately, the advice given to you by Apple, was incorrect (these Macs did ship with Lion after Lion was released, but they were originally shipped with SL and their original firmware stills supports Snow Leopard as you have discovered) and the thread you link is way out of date. But your success in the end is all that matters.

GermanyChris
Jul 11, 2013, 06:27 AM
I'm back on Snow Leopard and it's good to be back :D

hamiltonDSi
Jul 11, 2013, 06:46 AM
Man... I so want Snow Leopard back...
The only thing that holds me to Mountain Lion is iCloud and AirPlay Video Mirroring.

apapoo
Jul 23, 2013, 07:11 AM
Hey guys this is my first post and kind stuck.

so i bought a imac the other day and it had no operating system on it. bought snow leopard as i was told that would be my start off now when i put the disk in it doesnt recognize where the hard drive is?

no clue what to do from here can anyone help?

OLDCODGER
Jul 23, 2013, 10:42 AM
Hey guys this is my first post and kind stuck.

so i bought a imac the other day and it had no operating system on it. bought snow leopard as i was told that would be my start off now when i put the disk in it doesnt recognize where the hard drive is?

no clue what to do from here can anyone help?

You sure it has a hard drive? It's not unknown for previous owner to remove it before selling.

Eithanius
Jul 24, 2013, 03:58 AM
Man... I so want Snow Leopard back...
The only thing that holds me to Mountain Lion is iCloud and AirPlay Video Mirroring.

I'm on Snow Leopard but I would love to get Messages protocol to work on iChat in SL. Beyond that, nothing seems worthy on ML...

ArchAndroid
Jul 25, 2013, 07:26 AM
Hey guys this is my first post and kind stuck.

so i bought a imac the other day and it had no operating system on it. bought snow leopard as i was told that would be my start off now when i put the disk in it doesnt recognize where the hard drive is?

no clue what to do from here can anyone help?

There should be a bootdisk with 'Disk Utility' on it. Check what is installed in the iMac on the left hand column. There should be a hard drive name (mine is '750.16 GB WDC WD7500...') and underneath a list of partitions if there are any.

Hopefully, there will be a hard disk inside the iMac. Right click the Hard Drive (mine is '750.16 GB WDC WD7500...') in the left hand column and choose 'Partition'. Set it up to one large partition and make sure the format is 'Mac OS Journaled'.

When you come back to installing the OS, the install CD should recognise this new partition as being compatible with OS X and will allow you to install it there.

Good luck!!! :) :) :)

throAU
Jul 29, 2013, 11:49 PM
As others have stated, put the latest drivers into SL, and I would then buy future Macs, rather than go Linux, once my current Mac dies.

LOL

If you're heading to Linux, good luck.

Been there, been employed looking after it since 1996, dislike.

Never mind the vast amount of horrible broken or just plain nasty PC hardware out there.

Put $40 of RAM in your machine, turn off versions if you're totally and utterly against having your work backed up and move on.

Or migrate to Windows XP or something...

OLDCODGER
Jul 30, 2013, 06:14 PM
LOL

If you're heading to Linux, good luck.

Been there, been employed looking after it since 1996, dislike.

Never mind the vast amount of horrible broken or just plain nasty PC hardware out there.

Put $40 of RAM in your machine, turn off versions if you're totally and utterly against having your work backed up and move on.

Or migrate to Windows XP or something...

First, there's no need to insult me by mentioning Windows. :)

I have been using Ubuntu on a Dell laptop for a couple of years now, and, since I don't game, it does what I need without fuss.

As for backups, I both clone my HD, and incrementally back up my data - twice. I don't want versions because I do many text searches through my data files, and want one copy only, containing the latest updates. This is also the reason why I don't want to lose "save as ...".

I just don't see the point in moving from a system that suits my needs, to one that doesn't.