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spellflower
Sep 15, 2005, 08:12 PM
I have one of the new ibooks and I've been leaving it on 24/7 for the past couple of days, just closing it when not in use (I assumed this put it to sleep, no?) Today as it sat on a pile of phone books the fan came on a few times. I was eating dinner, so I didn't look at it right away, but when I did it was pretty hot to the touch and wouldn't wake up. I hit the space bar, tried the track pad, and ctrl + apple + del, and heard the hd spin, but nothing happened. Finally I pressed the power button and it restarted.

This isn't the first time that this has happened. Twice while using itunes I plugged in my ipod but couldn't figure out how to get it to import updated songs, so I put the machine to sleep throught the apple menu, and couldn't wake it up without restarting. Now that it's up and running again everything works fine, but I'm worried this is a bad sign. Please help!



mad jew
Sep 15, 2005, 09:28 PM
Could it possibly be overheating?

What exactly were you doing on the iBook when it was on the phone books? What sort of third party apps do you run?

Also, for the record, the iBook will sleep when you close the lid.

spellflower
Sep 15, 2005, 09:46 PM
It was just sitting there on the phone books sleeping, as it had been since I left it there several hours earlier. I have no third party apps other than MS office, which was closed at the time. It's possible that the phone books (on a table, next to the wall) was not a good place ventilation wise, and it was overheating this time, but what about when I told it to sleep while running itunes? Any relation? Or is that a separate problem?

BTW, thanks for you're quick responses and helpful demeanor Mad Jew!

mad jew
Sep 15, 2005, 10:29 PM
Hmm... A normal iBook will not overheat that easily. I haven't ever seen mine overheat and it's quite often running hard drive intensive tasks whilst resting on a pillow (something Apple does seriously not condone).

This is tricky. I can only think of two relevant things at the moment.

1. You have a logic board failure and it must be taken back to Apple for repair/replacement.

2. You have a corrupt install of OSX. Reformatting and reinstalling OSX should obviously overcome this. However I hate recommending reinstalls. This is OSX and reinstalls are very rarely necessary. Still, it may help. If possible, back up your work and try again but maybe wait for a day or so to see if anyone else comes up with a better solution. Also, have you called Apple?


BTW, thanks for you're quick responses and helpful demeanor Mad Jew!


Thank you. :)

Hopefully this problem will get fixed soon enough. That is in no way normal iBook behaviour.

40167
Sep 15, 2005, 10:53 PM
Well if it was sleeping the fan really should not come on at all... theres no reason for a fan to come on durring sleep; as all what has power is your ram and a few other tiny things to sence when the switches get pushed.

As for it not waking up, i'm going to have to go with a software issue first as ive had the operating system cause systems to not wakeup more than hardware... one system I worked on that wouldnt wakeup had a ram problem that apperently caused the system to imediately crash once put into sleep or if you used up most of the ram.

mad jew
Sep 15, 2005, 10:56 PM
Man, I need more coffee.


one system I worked on that wouldnt wakeup had a ram problem that apperently caused the system to imediately crash once put into sleep or if you used up most of the ram.


Before you start unwrapping those OSX disks, did you install any new RAM recently? This could well be a RAM related problem in which case it's easily fixed. :)

Hopefully it's just the RAM.

daveybe
Sep 15, 2005, 11:08 PM
i've had a similar problem since i upgraded to Tiger on my 800MHz iBook. When it wakes from sleep, the HD spins up but the display doesn't activate.

I have it set to prompt for password upon waking, so if i do an command-. (shortcut for cancel) then it cancels out of the password routine and goes back to sleep. If i wake it up again immediately, it usually wakes up fine.

Don't know if this is some 10.4 bug or if its just the age of my iBook (3+ yrs). Haven't experimented enough to isolate the cause.

Does your sleep indicator light still pulse after you try to wake the machine?

Bote
Sep 15, 2005, 11:12 PM
This may not be related at all, but Mad Jew may have been right at the begining mentioning the logic board. One of the dell models that I support for work does the same thing. This happens to like every one of this model that we have. You could be working on an app or no app at all and the system will go into sleep mode and will not come out. Once you power cycle the system it comes up fine for a while and then happens again. Very annonying. Something about the onboard video. Once we replace the board they are fine again. Hopefully this is something different. That is a real pain to replace in a laptop! :confused:

Mechcozmo
Sep 16, 2005, 12:19 AM
This may not be related at all, but Mad Jew may have been right at the begining mentioning the logic board. One of the dell models that I support for work does the same thing. This happens to like every one of this model that we have. You could be working on an app or no app at all and the system will go into sleep mode and will not come out. Once you power cycle the system it comes up fine for a while and then happens again. Very annonying. Something about the onboard video. Once we replace the board they are fine again. Hopefully this is something different. That is a real pain to replace in a laptop! :confused:

Bit more rare in an iBook but still plausible.

Since it is hot, that rules out the DC converter board... or actually, it doesn't. The board that controls the AC power in may have blown, causing it to heat up. Unplug and see if that works. That is an easier fix, as the DC converter is its own board.

iEdd
Sep 16, 2005, 02:34 AM
Sorry I haven't read all the replies here, but in Aus at the moment, they are recalling pb/ib batteries due to overheating. That is worth checking out on your apple site.

spellflower
Sep 16, 2005, 07:44 AM
did you install any new RAM recently? This could well be a RAM related problem in which case it's easily fixed. :)

Alas, no.

It definitely seemed to be overheating this last time when it was just sitting there sleeping- fan spun (but then turned off), felt hot, wouldn't wake. Is not waking a common symptom of overheating?

But I still don't get why it wouldn't wake the other times when I told it to sleep throught the menu while using itunes. Is there a connection or not?

If it is any of the other issues mentioned above (software or logic board) will I likely notice other symptoms? Given a choice between living with a computer that occasionally needs to be restarted after sleep but otherwise works fine and the hassle of reinstalling software or taking it in to the shop, I might just go with the former and wait and see if it continues often enough to annoy me. On the other hand, I do have apple care, so maybe I should get this straightened out now. I just wanted to check with you all to see if I'm missing something due to my inexperience.

mad jew
Sep 16, 2005, 07:54 AM
Is not waking a common symptom of overheating?


What do you mean? Waking from sleep shouldn't cause overheating. However, when a computer overheats, it should just go to sleep. Is that what you're asking?


But I still don't get why it wouldn't wake the other times when I told it to sleep throught the menu while using itunes. Is there a connection or not?


Could be... I don't think it's an iTunes fault but rather a system fault though.


If it is any of the other issues mentioned above (software or logic board) will I likely notice other symptoms?


There's a massive amount of different symptoms when it comes to logic boards. since it is such an integral part of the computer. Sorry, it's difficult to be specific.


Given a choice between living with a computer that occasionally needs to be restarted after sleep but otherwise works fine and the hassle of reinstalling software or taking it in to the shop, I might just go with the former and wait and see if it continues often enough to annoy me.


If it is a logic board failure, you'll want it fixed. Think of it this way, it's probably only going to get worse. You may as well take it to a professional who can check it out in the flesh and take the appropriate course of action from there. As you say, you have AppleCare, so you may as well take advantage of it. Sorry, I know that's not very helpful. :o

dcv
Sep 16, 2005, 08:29 AM
My PowerBook overheated the very first night I had it. It was definitely asleep as the white light was showing, but something must have woken it up as in the morning the fans were roaring yet i couldn't wake it up properly... in the end i had to disconnect the battery, leave it to cool and restart it.

Since i suspected something 'woke' it from sleep i disabled the 'wake options' settings in Energy Saver preferences. I don't know if that was the cause of the problem or not, but it has never happened again since then. perhaps something to check out?

mad jew
Sep 16, 2005, 08:32 AM
dietcokevanilla, could it have been a BlueTooth device (mouse, keyboard or phone) or maybe an ethernet cable still plugged in? These can sometimes mess with sleeping Macs. :(

dcv
Sep 16, 2005, 08:51 AM
dietcokevanilla, could it have been a BlueTooth device (mouse, keyboard or phone) or maybe an ethernet cable still plugged in? These can sometimes mess with sleeping Macs. :(

I don't have a keyboard or mouse, just the PB. Phone could have been a possibility but i don't remember now... unlikely though since i usually turn off bluetooth straight away after using it.

well all i know is *something* woke it that night. the fact that it overheated was probably also [partially] due to external influences - it was 30C or more in London at the time and my flat gets very hot since i'm on the top floor.

Bote
Sep 16, 2005, 09:12 AM
I did not even notice that you had applecare. This is exactly why you spent your money. Don't waste your time, take it in to apple to have it looked at. These things never seem to fix them self or get better suddenly. Excessive heat can damage other components too..... :(

spellflower
Sep 16, 2005, 04:19 PM
What do you mean? Waking from sleep shouldn't cause overheating. However, when a computer overheats, it should just go to sleep. Is that what you're asking?

My question was basically, "If it was overheating while in sleep mode, would you expect it not to wake until cool?"

As for what to do next, I'm pretty busy, so whether or not I actually take it in will really depend on how much I get done tomorrow (grad school is just like they said it would be, and I have to write a counter-proposal to the lease my landlord sent me a month ago.) It will also depend on whether it happens again. Since I have a friend who'se an apple care technician for a 3rd party store, I might try to have him look at it, though he can be tough to get a hold of.

Thanks for the help.

mad jew
Sep 16, 2005, 05:35 PM
My question was basically, "If it was overheating while in sleep mode, would you expect it not to wake until cool?"


If for some reason it was overheating in its sleep, then it would not awaken. However, I've never had my iBook sleep from overheating and I live in Australia with temperatures sometimes reaching a toasty 45C with no problems. Getting it to overheat in sleep mode is not normal and the machine really needs to be fixed.

Sorry for the bad news. :(

Peter Griffin
Sep 17, 2005, 03:34 AM
I just experienced the same exact thing right now. I put my iBook to sleep (it was somewhat hot around 55-60 C) and when I tried to wake it up nothing happened except for my mouse lighting up. And even the mouse started acting weird because it is suppsoed to rotate to different colors; it stayed on one and never changed. This really worries me since I've only had the iBook for 2 weeks. I held down the power button and rebooted the whole thing. THe temperature, when I checked it was around 45 C, very unusualy especially if the computer has been to sleep for quite some time. Is there any other way to restart a Mac when this happens (besides power button)? Are there other things I should look out for/try when this happens again?

spellflower
Sep 17, 2005, 07:30 AM
If for some reason it was overheating in its sleep, then it would not awaken. However, I've never had my iBook sleep from overheating and I live in Australia with temperatures sometimes reaching a toasty 45C with no problems. Getting it to overheat in sleep mode is not normal and the machine really needs to be fixed.

Sorry for the bad news. :(

Okay, okay, I'll take it in! (Or at least call applecare.)

Again, thanks for the help.

spellflower
Sep 20, 2005, 09:38 PM
For those who care, I called Apple Care over the weekend. Phillip, the guy I talked with, said that it is perfectly normal for the ibook to get hot to the touch and for the fan to come on while the ibook is in sleep mode, so he didn't think that was a problem. As for the not waking up, he suggested that it might be a power management issue, and had me do a reset by turning the machine off and holding certain keys and the power button down for a second. If someone less repuatable had told me to try that I would've thought they were pulling my leg (yeah, right, and if I rub the outside of the ibook with a potato and then bury it in the backyard at midnight during a full moon, that'll do the trick too!), but I have enough faith in apple to not accuse them of offering up placebos. Phil also emailed me the following link: http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n14449 for an article, "Resetting PowerBook and iBook Power Management Unit (PMU)" explaining how this works.

So there you have it. At least for now, everything's working fine without any OSX reinstalls or other nastiness. Thanks again for the help (even though I hope you're wrong and Phil's right); you can bet I'll be posting here right away if the problem reoccursl.

mad jew
Sep 21, 2005, 02:13 AM
Resetting the PMU. Yeah, I probably should have thought of that. :o

Still, the only time it's normal for the fan to come on during sleep time is if you have been working the iBook very hard just before putting it to sleep. In other words, it will come on automatically to cool necessary components irrespective of sleep status however there is nothing that the computer can do whilst actually sleeping that would necessitate the fan.

Whatever, I'm hoping the PMU reset has solve all of your problems. :)

spellflower
Sep 21, 2005, 11:51 PM
Whatever, I'm hoping the PMU reset has solve all of your problems. :)

Me too! So far so good.

spellflower
Sep 29, 2005, 07:26 AM
It did it again! It was sleeping on a table through the night. At dawn I woke up to take a leak and couldn't resist checking the status of my ebay item. I opened the clamshell and it woke right up. I finished looking up my item, closed it back up, and went back to sleep my self. When I got up a few hours later I opened the clamshell, but got nothing but the soft hum of the fan (at least that's what I think it was). I pressed the space bar, doodled the track pad, did everything I could think of, but all to no avail. I also noticed that the sleep "heartbeat" light was not doing its thing. Could this be a screen issue? Did the machine think it was awake even though it was displaying nothing? Anyway, I had to restart the machine manually. I guess I'll be back on the phone to apple againn this weekend. Grrrr. :mad:

ccr
Oct 2, 2005, 02:17 PM
Spellflower-

I'm having the exact same problem....it's happened to me three times so far, most recently last night. I woke up this AM and the fan on my G4 Powerbook 12" was running, the case was really hot, and the white blinking light was no longer blinking. I opened up the PB and wasn't able to get it to wake up. Ugh!


It did it again! It was sleeping on a table through the night. At dawn I woke up to take a leak and couldn't resist checking the status of my ebay item. I opened the clamshell and it woke right up. I finished looking up my item, closed it back up, and went back to sleep my self. When I got up a few hours later I opened the clamshell, but got nothing but the soft hum of the fan (at least that's what I think it was). I pressed the space bar, doodled the track pad, did everything I could think of, but all to no avail. I also noticed that the sleep "heartbeat" light was not doing its thing. Could this be a screen issue? Did the machine think it was awake even though it was displaying nothing? Anyway, I had to restart the machine manually. I guess I'll be back on the phone to apple againn this weekend. Grrrr. :mad:

spellflower
Oct 4, 2005, 04:43 PM
As I said, apple care seems to think it's a PMU issue, so you might as well try their instructions for resetting that. I still don't know if the one time it got all hot and shut itself down is related to the other times that it just won't wake up from sleep. The last time it did this, as I said, it had been asleep, but then the sleep light went out and it wouldn't respond. I know I hadn't shut it down absentmindedly because it was making some noise. Weird. I still haven't called applecare again because it's working okay now, and I just don't have the time- maybe this weekend.... Anyway, good luck ccr. Oh, by the way, I've also noticed that sometimes the ibook gets confused when the screen is closed part way, but then space bar is pushed. It'll wake up, then go to sleep when the screen is fully opened. I guess that's to be expected with any laptop set to sleep when closed, but still, I wonder if there's more to it.

spellflower
Oct 5, 2005, 05:39 PM
Okay, now this is starting to get annoying. It just did it again- I closed the clamshell and when I opened it five minutes later, I noticed the sleep light was out and I had to restart. I'm definitely calling apple care, but I wanted to post this as a record.

lucface
Oct 5, 2005, 06:13 PM
i dont have an answer for you. but i had a simular problem, you may get somthing usefull out of this:
i started using a program called sleepless. its used to keep the computer awake when the lid is closed. i would wake up the computer and it would be vary hot and still apear to be asleep. hiting keys and stuff didnt do sh... so i would reboot. and it would be fine. i farly quickly stoped using sleepless, but i kept it around for just in case. what i reallized was that, when opening the screen i thought it was still sleeping, in fact just the display was asleep but the computer was, and had been, awake. it would get really hot cause with the lid closed no heat could escape.
the reason why they dont give you an option to close the lid without putting the machine to sleep is cause it would overheat. also you could bang the working disc around wile travelling and screw it up along with your data.
so i imagine your having the same prob, differnt reason.
i would just not shut your lid till you get it resolved. or bang it around as much as you might, thinking it were asleep.
i would say, to test if this is the case, to run a dvd or somthing and see if its progressed after you open it back up. but obviosly that wouldnt work if you have no display. though the time when it seems to be fine. it is probably not asleep when you open it and thats why it apears to be onely an a occasional problem. so try it.

funkychunkz
Oct 5, 2005, 06:25 PM
Your iBook is possessed!!! :eek:

No seriously, I think it's a battery problem. ( If it's new and you haven't already done this) Let it charge to full, then drain it back and charge again. ( It let's the computer know the full levels, and thus how much battery power is left) Then try using your computer again.

spellflower
Oct 5, 2005, 08:02 PM
Your iBook is possessed!!! :eek:

No seriously, I think it's a battery problem. ( If it's new and you haven't already done this) Let it charge to full, then drain it back and charge again. ( It let's the computer know the full levels, and thus how much battery power is left) Then try using your computer again.

Is posession covered by apple care? :D

As for the battery, I did fully charge then fully drain the first few times, but what the heck, I'll try again!

Oh, and I'm sure it really is asleep when I close the lid cause the pulsating light comes on- it just isn't there when I come back. If the computer really is on at this point, but not asleep, and with a dimmed display, wouldn't the display snap back when I press the space bar and use the trackpad?

I'll call apple this weekend. No time right now.

gt28r
Oct 6, 2005, 08:46 PM
hello. if the sleep light is off and the display is black, the backlight may be the problem. shine a bright light on the screen. do you see the desktop?

spellflower
Oct 6, 2005, 08:58 PM
I'll try the flashlight if it happens again, but why would the screen sometimes go dim and not other times. When I restart, it's totally normal.

By the way, when draining the battery, is it neccesary to drain it until the machine shuts itself down, or just until it puts itself to sleep?