10.2.3, 10.2.4 and ForceFeedback

[MacRumors]

ThinkSecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/macosx10232.html) that new seeds of 10.2.3 are being released with the usual updates, including updates to AppleScript, Classic, Disk Copy, Disk Utility, Image Capture, Mail, OpenGL, Printer Center, and Rendezvous.

MacBidouille (http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2002-11-27), however, notes that Force Feedback support appears to be included in the newest builds with the inclusion of the following drivers:

ImmersionForceFeedback.kext 1.07
LogitechForcefeedback.kext 1.00


10.2.3 is expected in December as previously reported (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/11/20021123143729.shtml).

[Billicus]

Would somebody explain force feedback to me, please?

[yamadataro]

Ah, I love these delicious updates!

[reyesmac]

Cool, now that they will have force feedback (the joystick shakes or wiggles when things blow up on screen) for all the cool action games, maybe someday we can have all those cool action games ported to the Mac!

[electricimage]

After installing this seed build I received a 8% speed increase when testing with xBench. I believe that most of the benefit came in the Quartz drawing.

I am running a Ti 800 with 1024MB Ram and a 60GB 5400RPM drive.

Brad

[agreenster]

Originally posted by electricimage
After installing this seed build I received a 8% speed increase when testing with xBench. I believe that most of the benefit came in the Quartz drawing.

I am running a Ti 800 with 1024MB Ram and a 60GB 5400RPM drive.

Brad

What video card?

[Tue12]

Originally posted by Billicus
Would somebody explain force feedback to me, please?

A physical response via a user input device. Today it is mostly via joysticks, but it could be anything, like an input glove or one day body suits.

Use Google.

[Cappy]

Forcefeedback underwear. That's the future I'm telling ya! ;)

[digitalgiant]

Man i just want some full tilt print drivers for my Epsons.

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by reyesmac
maybe someday we can have all those cool action games ported to the Mac!

Some good news.
New collaboration promises easier Mac game porting (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0211/29.macdx.php)

[utilizer]

And just in time for the new version of F/A-18 Hornet from Graphsim. Let's just hope that they built it in the game for next month's release!

[scem0]

Originally posted by Billicus
Would somebody explain force feedback to me, please?

Force feedback provides direct perception of three-dimensional (3D) objects and directly couples input and output between the computer and user. It acts as a powerful addition to graphics display for problems that involve understanding of 3D structure, shape perception, and force fields. The addition of force display to computer graphic systems has produced a factor of two improvement in rigid-body motions during simulated drug docking, enabled new types of manipulation, and provided users with a stronger sense of understanding

taken from:
http://www.cs.unc.edu/Research/force/


Sounds great, let's hope we get this update soon.

[cionheart]

Man, I hope they finally fix support for my Casio Digitalcamera. Support has been broken since 10.1.5 where everything worked just fine. Am I the only owner of a Casio? :mad:

[bretm]

My hope is that if the new macs won't boot in OS 9 then apple will work on classic until classic is able to work in exactly the same way that booting in OS9 did. Including all printers, scanners, extensions. Nobody would be able to complain that machines won't boot in OS9 if this were true. Otherwise, I think apple is alienating many customers before all software and hardware manufacturers give them the ability to upgrade.

So I notice that there is a classic update coming. Anyone have any details?

[springscansing]

Originally posted by bretm
My hope is that if the new macs won't boot in OS 9 then apple will work on classic until classic is able to work in exactly the same way that booting in OS9 did. Including all printers, scanners, extensions. Nobody would be able to complain that machines won't boot in OS9 if this were true. Otherwise, I think apple is alienating many customers before all software and hardware manufacturers give them the ability to upgrade.

So I notice that there is a classic update coming. Anyone have any details?

Mmmm I hope it can run audio apps.

[RogueLdr]

Originally posted by scem0


Force feedback provides direct perception of three-dimensional (3D) objects and directly couples input and output between the computer and user. It acts as a powerful addition to graphics display for problems that involve understanding of 3D structure, shape perception, and force fields. The addition of force display to computer graphic systems has produced a factor of two improvement in rigid-body motions during simulated drug docking, enabled new types of manipulation, and provided users with a stronger sense of understanding

taken from:
http://www.cs.unc.edu/Research/force/


Sounds great, let's hope we get this update soon.

actually, scem0, that is not the force feedback that is being referred to here. reyesmac has it right that it is an enhancement for game controllers that makes them vibrate when you are shot or whatever

RL

[Marvenp]

Originally posted by digitalgiant
Man i just want some full tilt print drivers for my Epsons.

I agree. All of this fancy stuff Apple is adding to OS X makes no sense when the basic functions don't work up to their full potential yet. I have the new model Epson printer that is only available in Japan, the PM-970C. It will print in OS X but no where near as good as in classic making Photoshop 7 and other OS X graphics programs almost useless. I can design stuff in PS 7 but I have to open it in PS 6 to print full bleed pages with color accuracy. How about properly working printer drivers Apple (Epson, Canon, HP and others)?

[Choppaface]

ya enough with new iApps and funky new features, get that green out of my epson prints >_<

[dscottbuch]

Originally posted by Marvenp


I agree. All of this fancy stuff Apple is adding to OS X makes no sense when the basic functions don't work up to their full potential yet. I have the new model Epson printer that is only available in Japan, the PM-970C. It will print in OS X but no where near as good as in classic making Photoshop 7 and other OS X graphics programs almost useless. I can design stuff in PS 7 but I have to open it in PS 6 to print full bleed pages with color accuracy. How about properly working printer drivers Apple (Epson, Canon, HP and others)?

Try Gimp Print (http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/MacOSX.php3) .


The driver that came with this for my 850 NE gives much better results and options. Than the included driver.

[yamadataro]

The Epson printer driver issue is becoming OK now I think. I was furious about it like until a couple of months ago. But the whole situation is getting better as the time goes by.

My PM3000C and 4000PX works OK under 10.2 although it still has some limitations. Epson Japan is releasing tons of leaser printer drivers in December (finally yeah!). But I guess Epson is not much of a big leaser printers out side of Japan... Oh and I've been using VueScan for my 9700 scanner, and Epson finally has a Twain driver for Photoshop on 10.2! (*these model#s are in Japan only)

A while back I've installed Gimp print, but I couldn't really figure out what to do with it. Maybe I didn't do it right? But it was just so unclear what the hell was going on in it.

There's nothing like official drivers! Go Epson Go!

[bretm]

Originally posted by Marvenp


I agree. All of this fancy stuff Apple is adding to OS X makes no sense when the basic functions don't work up to their full potential yet. I have the new model Epson printer that is only available in Japan, the PM-970C. It will print in OS X but no where near as good as in classic making Photoshop 7 and other OS X graphics programs almost useless. I can design stuff in PS 7 but I have to open it in PS 6 to print full bleed pages with color accuracy. How about properly working printer drivers Apple (Epson, Canon, HP and others)?

Is there some reason you aren't able to run your Photoshop 7 in OS9? Why are you still using PS 6 if you have PS7? Very confused. Sounds like you didn't know that PS7 works in OS9 or OSX. Surely that isn't the case I hope.

if you want PS7 to launch in classic, just get info on PS7 and click the little box that says launch in classic.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by agreenster


What video card?

considering the man has a tibook, it's logical to assume quite easily that he is running the M radeon 7500 with 32 MB DDR, considering they only made one revision with an 800 MHz G4.

brad's comments fill me with hope, i am annoyed that my ambient CPU usage is so high; i suspect it has something to do with quartz not sending everything to the video card. i really think they need to get almost all of the screen aspects of this OS to the vid card ASAP. i have much better things to do with my CPU.

All you people whining about print drivers: when i don't have a driver i want, i don't bitch at the OS company, i bitch at the hardware manufacturer. apple doesn't make epson printers. epson makes epson printers. It's my experience with drivers that manufacturers make them. and if that isn't the case, it should be. apple has better things to do, i think, than write printing drivers. if there is some aspect of the OS that actually DISABLES printer features, they should get their butts on it, but as long is it's JUST the drivers for your specific printer, or even most printers, this is another one of those cases where 3rd parties need to wake up and smell the OS. 9 is dead, much like windows 98. it's like, i think, talking in latin. sure it's useful, and it had it's day, but jeez. if you are still stuck on that OS, t seems like you should be flaming angry at the company like quark or whatever for dragging its feet. i would drop a company like that just like i hope apple drops motorola. nobody should have to put up with that. i could be wrong, i guess, but when i had XP, MS certainly didn't make my Geforce3 drivers, thank god. they didn't even certify the ones i used. anyways...

[Arcady]

Originally posted by Marvenp
How about properly working printer drivers Apple (Epson, Canon, HP and others)?

Why is it Apple's job to write drivers for printers they don't make? :confused:

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by digitalgiant
Man i just want some full tilt print drivers for my Epsons.

This has to do with Epsons and "force" feedback!

There are Epson drivers for loads of printers on the French and German sites (www.epson.fr, www.epson.de) that arn't on the UK/US sites.

I told this to MacWorld UK magazine and got Star letter, winning Jedi Knight I, hench "force"

[elmimmo]

Does anyone know if game programmers can include force feedback events in a hardware independent way? Such as game developers for Windows use Direct X to add force feedback events, and it is the gamepad manufacturer which has to write drivers compatible with those.

Because if not and game developers for Mac have to address force feedback in each and every rumbling pad's way, then forget about it, since no one would take the trouble (the same as no one took 3d HW acceleration in games seriously until OpenGL/Direct 3D was available in Mac/Windows)

[digitalgiant]

Originally posted by Arcady


Why is it Apple's job to write drivers for printers they don't make? :confused:

While it is true that Epson and others need to get their drivers out the door,,,,I think its kind of ****ty for apple to say "just plug it in,,,it will work".Anyway I just think its lame that I have to boot into 9 just to get better looking prints.

[hvfsl]

I dont care about force feadback (I have it on my PC and dont use it much) or printer drivers. I want surround sound in a Mac. I hope Apple updates Mac OS X and the DVD player to support it.

[FNT]

Originally posted by dscottbuch


Try Gimp Print (http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/MacOSX.php3) .


The driver that came with this for my 850 NE gives much better results and options. Than the included driver.

Just wanted to say thanks for the tip on gimp-print!!! It worked great and I found it easy to set-up. Now my 850 NE is up and running again!!!

[encro]

CoreAudio already has this function built in Im pretty sure.

[voyagerd]

Has anybody tried force feedback with their Logitech joystick? I have one and I will try it in 6G19 in just a minute.

[gandalf55]

let's hope Grab works in the background now & we don't need to give the app focus to capture stuff. snapz pro is sweeeeet, would be nice if Grab comes close to the same functionality.

[Bastich]

Originally posted by reyesmac
...the joystick shakes or wiggles when things blow up on screen...

You're thinking of vibration feedback. Logitech force feedback encompasses a lot more, including true force feedback as implemented in their Wingman Formula Force and GP wheels. I sure hope Apple implements the whole feature set. I'm tired of all these games touting "force feedback", when all they do is make your hand buzz.

OpenFL, anybody?

[drastik]

Originally posted by Marvenp


I agree. All of this fancy stuff Apple is adding to OS X makes no sense when the basic functions don't work up to their full potential yet. I have the new model Epson printer that is only available in Japan, the PM-970C. It will print in OS X but no where near as good as in classic making Photoshop 7 and other OS X graphics programs almost useless. I can design stuff in PS 7 but I have to open it in PS 6 to print full bleed pages with color accuracy. How about properly working printer drivers Apple (Epson, Canon, HP and others)?

As far as I know, the maker of the printer is responsible for driver updates. Hassle them. I want to shoot lexar over there card readers. First they say drivers comming for six months, now they say you don't need drivers, but the readers don't work anyway.

[mangoman]

Originally posted by scem0

Force feedback provides direct perception of three-dimensional (3D) objects and directly couples input and output between the computer and user. It acts as a powerful addition to graphics display for problems that involve understanding of 3D structure, shape perception, and force fields. The addition of force display to computer graphic systems has produced a factor of two improvement in rigid-body motions during simulated drug docking, enabled new types of manipulation, and provided users with a stronger sense of understanding


Obviously, this snippet was written by a tech-head. Sheesh. I think the poster a few blocks up made tons more sense.

But it IS fun to see how a technohead would explain the technology.

[JW Pepper]

I spoke to a lot of hardware OEM's at the MacExpo in London last month. They nearly all blamed Apple for the problems with driver support.

Apparently, Apple keeps changing the way the print mechanism works and as soon as their drivers are near to release something changes in the OS which means they hve to start the process again. Some said that many important functions arn't yet supported in OS X so, rather then develop workarounds they are waiting for Apple to enable proper support.

No you might say , 'Well they would say thet wouldn't they', but the fact the the same story is eminating from more than one source gives some measure or creedence.

Can anyone confirm this?

[daPhil]

Originally posted by JW Pepper
I spoke to a lot of hardware OEM's at the MacExpo in London last month. They nearly all blamed Apple for the problems with driver support.

Apparently, Apple keeps changing the way the print mechanism works and as soon as their drivers are near to release something changes in the OS which means they hve to start the process again. Some said that many important functions arn't yet supported in OS X so, rather then develop workarounds they are waiting for Apple to enable proper support.

No you might say , 'Well they would say thet wouldn't they', but the fact the the same story is eminating from more than one source gives some measure or creedence.

Can anyone confirm this?

Like most Linux/UNIX OSs MacOS X uses CUPS (Common Unix Printing System). So i dont know how much of the problems actually are Apples fault. Tip: you can access CUPS on your own machine by through port 631, type "http://127.0.0.1:631" in you browser.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by daPhil


Like most Linux/UNIX OSs MacOS X uses CUPS (Common Unix Printing System). So i dont know how much of the problems actually are Apples fault. Tip: you can access CUPS on your own machine by through port 631, type "http://127.0.0.1:631" in you browser.

that said, though, you still have an app like print center, or whatever it is, so it seems like there is more to OS X printing than CUPS. i would guess, without any real knowledge, that CUPS, like BSD for OS X itself, is the basis for OS X's printing capabilities, but by no means the be all end all of such.

[Marvenp]

Originally posted by bretm


Is there some reason you aren't able to run your Photoshop 7 in OS9? Why are you still using PS 6 if you have PS7? Very confused. Sounds like you didn't know that PS7 works in OS9 or OSX. Surely that isn't the case I hope.

if you want PS7 to launch in classic, just get info on PS7 and click the little box that says launch in classic.

Thanks for the advice. No, I didn't know that Photoshop 7 will launch in Classic. But I think it still doesn't solve the print driver issue. The drivers that are available now for OS X are (as it would seem) makeshift drivers. They don't support the full function of the printers e.g. edge to edge printing (full bleed).

[Marvenp]

Originally posted by Shadowfax


considering the man has a tibook, it's logical to assume quite easily that he is running the M radeon 7500 with 32 MB DDR, considering they only made one revision with an 800 MHz G4.

brad's comments fill me with hope, i am annoyed that my ambient CPU usage is so high; i suspect it has something to do with quartz not sending everything to the video card. i really think they need to get almost all of the screen aspects of this OS to the vid card ASAP. i have much better things to do with my CPU.

All you people whining about print drivers: when i don't have a driver i want, i don't bitch at the OS company, i bitch at the hardware manufacturer. apple doesn't make epson printers. epson makes epson printers. It's my experience with drivers that manufacturers make them. and if that isn't the case, it should be. apple has better things to do, i think, than write printing drivers. if there is some aspect of the OS that actually DISABLES printer features, they should get their butts on it, but as long is it's JUST the drivers for your specific printer, or even most printers, this is another one of those cases where 3rd parties need to wake up and smell the OS. 9 is dead, much like windows 98. it's like, i think, talking in latin. sure it's useful, and it had it's day, but jeez. if you are still stuck on that OS, t seems like you should be flaming angry at the company like quark or whatever for dragging its feet. i would drop a company like that just like i hope apple drops motorola. nobody should have to put up with that. i could be wrong, i guess, but when i had XP, MS certainly didn't make my Geforce3 drivers, thank god. they didn't even certify the ones i used. anyways...

Yeah but it is Apple's job to make sure their OS is supported by third party developers. XP doesn't seem to have any problems getting up to date drivers.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Marvenp


Yeah but it is Apple's job to make sure their OS is supported by third party developers. XP doesn't seem to have any problems getting up to date drivers.

oooh, big whoopie. the company with 95% of the freaking market doesn't have trouble getting a company to write drivers for it. jeez, man, what asinine company wouldn't manage winXP drivers? that's like driving a stake into your heart. you think XP has more up to date drivers because it's better? M$ just has infinite influence over literally every aspect of the PC world. Apple can't pull that, and while they are probably to some extent to blame, most of the OS X issues now lie with software giants like quark dragging its feet for so long on its flagship app. that's just a sin any way you cut it,; any problems to the extent of which would justify such a delay should have been more than adequate to ruin that company completely. or take ATI. the 9700 pro STILL isn't on the mac platform. why? i think we all know. like i said, Apple's hands aren't clean in the whole up-to-date issue, but i much more readily cast blame on other companies.

[jtaekman]

Immersion (http://www.immersion.com) is a company involved in medical simulation and surgical robotics. Force-feedback (haptics) is a key component of Immersion's products. I'm interested to see what Immersion is up to with the MacOS.

Jeffrey M. Taekman, M.D.
Assistant Dean for Educational Technology
Director, Human Simulation and Patient Safety Center
Assistant Professor of Anesthesiology
Duke University School of Medicine

[arn]

Originally posted by jtaekman
Immersion (http://www.immersion.com) is a company involved in medical simulation and surgical robotics. Force-feedback (haptics) is a key component of Immersion's products. I'm interested to see what Immersion is up to with the MacOS.


Very interesting. Thanks for the information.

arn