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RedCroissant
Dec 4, 2012, 05:58 PM
Hello everyone out there in PPC land!

I was at school today and decided to bring my iPad mini to class with me instead of my iBook for one important reason; weight. But while taking notes on it, I started comparing the devices.

My iBook is 7 years old now and does not support flash 11, has wireless G Internet, has enough RAM to run Leopard pretty well according to my needs, but is quickly becoming less and less useful as the hardware/software requirements for certain apps and websites become more demanding of more recent technology.

My iPad on the other hand has wireless N, has plenty of RAM to run all the iOS apps I need to run, streams Netflix, can share my iTunes library completely, the battery lasts longer, the screen resolution is the same as my iBook, I can use FaceTime(unfair comparison I know!), and other stuff as well. It seems to me that the only advantages of having the iBook now is the existence of the ODD(which I have only used to install iWork '09 and reinstall the OS via disk utility on the Mac OS X install disk), and the available HDD space which is really only a few GBs due it being a 40GB HDD.

What do you guys think? Am I forgetting anything?



cocacolakid
Dec 4, 2012, 06:35 PM
You're right, an iPad or iPad mini are more useful machines for most users than any G4 laptop.

However, two things to remember. You can buy a nice clean G4 laptop for $100-200 while the mini starts at $349 and of course the newest iPad at $499. (I know, you can buy a used/refurb iPad for less but you're not finding any used mini's yet).

The other thing is that the iPad/mini are more useful for "most users" these days. There are still many users who need specific apps or do work that just isn't as practical as working on an iPad.

It's really no different than the iPad vs. MacBook argument, other than the price difference.

For most people who consume content, the iPad is the better value. For people who create content, a laptop is the better value in most situations.

RedCroissant
Dec 4, 2012, 07:18 PM
You're right, an iPad or iPad mini are more useful machines for most users than any G4 laptop.

However, two things to remember. You can buy a nice clean G4 laptop for $100-200 while the mini starts at $349 and of course the newest iPad at $499. (I know, you can buy a used/refurb iPad for less but you're not finding any used mini's yet).

The other thing is that the iPad/mini are more useful for "most users" these days. There are still many users who need specific apps or do work that just isn't as practical as working on an iPad.

It's really no different than the iPad vs. MacBook argument, other than the price difference.

For most people who consume content, the iPad is the better value. For people who create content, a laptop is the better value in most situations.

Yeah I bought an iBook G4 and an iMac G5 for $300 total about 3 months ago and they have been great. I had planned to buy a wireless n USB adapter, upgrade the HDD to a SSD and remove the ODD once I made an iOS/DMG of the iWork installation disc. But now that I have the iPad mini, I'm wondering if any of that work is even worthwhile since those modifications won't do anything to make flash work any better, and I would eventually have just a really fast word processor.

But isn't the iPad becoming more of a content creator as well? I can record video and even edit it on the device(I know it's not the same as a laptop or desktop), and their are apps available for file storage, photo/video editing, even Autodesk.

I know that an iPad for many users would be fine, but I don't think that an iPad would be more productive than a new computer. I'm just wondering if the PPC(especially the single core variants) are to the point where they are simply not as useful or as practical than an iPad.

Oh, and I did find something that I can't seem to do on my iPad; print to my non AirPrint enabled printer.

MisterKeeks
Dec 4, 2012, 07:23 PM
On paper the iPad is clearly superior. However, there are many cases in which the iPad is inhibited by the lack of a keyboard/mouse interface. Typing is a good example, as well as simple web browsing- I prefer a laptop because of better copy and paste, typing, etc. Also, the power of apps is much greater on the iBook than the iPad.

skateny
Dec 4, 2012, 07:35 PM
Yeah I bought an iBook G4 and an iMac G5 for $300 total about 3 months ago and they have been great. I had planned to buy a wireless n USB adapter, upgrade the HDD to a SSD and remove the ODD once I made an iOS/DMG of the iWork installation disc. But now that I have the iPad mini, I'm wondering if any of that work is even worthwhile since those modifications won't do anything to make flash work any better, and I would eventually have just a really fast word processor.

But isn't the iPad becoming more of a content creator as well? I can record video and even edit it on the device(I know it's not the same as a laptop or desktop), and their are apps available for file storage, photo/video editing, even Autodesk.

I know that an iPad for many users would be fine, but I don't think that an iPad would be more productive than a new computer. I'm just wondering if the PPC(especially the single core variants) are to the point where they are simply not as useful or as practical than an iPad.

Oh, and I did find something that I can't seem to do on my iPad; print to my non AirPrint enabled printer.

The fact that an iPad can perform many tasks more quickly and, in some cases can perform tasks that your PowerPCs simply cannot, does not make either your iBook or your G5 a word processor. Was your iBook just a "really fast word processor" before you got your iPad?

I'm a bit confused about the purpose of this thread. The differences between an iPad and a PowerPC Mac are glaringly obvious. What you or anyone else prefers to use is extremely subjective.

RedCroissant
Dec 4, 2012, 08:00 PM
The fact that an iPad can perform many tasks more quickly and, in some cases can perform tasks that your PowerPCs simply cannot, does not make either your iBook or your G5 a word processor. Was your iBook just a "really fast word processor" before you got your iPad?

I'm a bit confused about the purpose of this thread. The differences between an iPad and a PowerPC Mac are glaringly obvious. What you or anyone else prefers to use is extremely subjective.

Come on, skateny.

I said "I would eventually have a really fast word processor" about the iBook and about the iPad I said,"isn't the iPad becoming more of a content creator as well?"

I don't think now nor did I think when I bought the iBook that it was simply a really fast word processor. I think it's a great machine, but now that I have an iPad again(and one with better wifi and longer battery life among other things) I have started wondering if the iPad would be able to replace the iBook for most if not all tasks at some point in the near future.

The fact that there are great apps available to do things that formerly required a laptop or desktop is amazing and I like where it's going. And of course it's subjective due to not all PPC Macs being the same(mine is a single core 1.33GHz with 1.5GB RAM). That's why I didn't say anything about G5s or any of the dual core or quad core PPCs out there(that I don't own) that are all most certainly more powerful than my iBook.

RedCroissant
Dec 4, 2012, 08:11 PM
On paper the iPad is clearly superior. However, there are many cases in which the iPad is inhibited by the lack of a keyboard/mouse interface. Typing is a good example, as well as simple web browsing- I prefer a laptop because of better copy and paste, typing, etc. Also, the power of apps is much greater on the iBook than the iPad.

I agreE with the limitations as far as a mouse/keyboard interface are concerned and sip,e web browsing I also agree could be better but jail broken iPads can utilize a keyboard AND mouse via Bluetooth(which would also make simple web browsing easier). I know it's only limited to jail broken iPads, but Apple does update their devices' capabilities to mimic what can be done via a jailbreak. A good example of this is the fact that Apple updated AppleTV to be able to share more than one iTunes library.

So it is plausible that a traditional desktop keyboard/mouse integration with iOS could appear as early as the next iOS update.

MisterKeeks
Dec 4, 2012, 08:25 PM
I agreE with the limitations as far as a mouse/keyboard interface are concerned and sip,e web browsing I also agree could be better but jail broken iPads can utilize a keyboard AND mouse via Bluetooth(which would also make simple web browsing easier). I know it's only limited to jail broken iPads, but Apple does update their devices' capabilities to mimic what can be done via a jailbreak. A good example of this is the fact that Apple updated AppleTV to be able to share more than one iTunes library.

So it is plausible that a traditional desktop keyboard/mouse integration with iOS could appear as early as the next iOS update.

I would say that here is about a 0.01% chance of that happening. Apple won't put in keyboard/mouse support because it is a touch interface. I don't think it would work the way Apple would want it to with touch.

RedCroissant
Dec 4, 2012, 08:31 PM
I would say that here is about a 0.01% chance of that happening. Apple won't put in keyboard/mouse support because it is a touch interface. I don't think it would work the way Apple would want it to with touch.

I'm not so sure that it's that far-fetched. After all, they did make it compatible with a keyboard and even designed and manufactured a keyboard dock. And some videos that I've seen with the mouse integration show that the touchscreen capabilities are not affected and that the mouse can work the same way that it would as if it were touched in the same spot. The only thing that I think it might affect is the number of inputs that ipad could accept. I could be wrong of course, but if the mouse utilizes one of the inputs that a finger would normally take, then perhaps it decreases the amount of touch input to four fingers? I have no idea really, but I think it's pretty great that a mouse works on the iPad.

Jessica Lares
Dec 4, 2012, 08:42 PM
No. I am typing this on my Mini, and while I love it, it comes nothing close to my clamshell.

There are still a lot of things missing from the iPads. You can read a magazine, but it's not as easy to make them. You can play a game, but it's not as easy to create the characters and other assets needed to make a good one. You can write and record music, but only as far as a demo, and nothing that's ready for a mass release.

And while big companies ARE deploying them, it's only because they're useful for spreadsheets, tracking, and other basic tasks. You're not going to see them used solely for in house work for many, many, many years to come. Wacom tablets still are much better.

cocacolakid
Dec 4, 2012, 09:02 PM
I'll use an example of content creating on the iPad. I have a nice bluetooth keyboard for the iPad that in many ways kind of makes in into a MacBook Air. Typing on a keyboard is obviously much easier and more productive than on screen keyboards.

So I use a great Mac app called GarageSale to list items on eBay. They also make an iOS version that I have on my iPad. I've tried using it on the iPad, and if you're just a very casual seller that's probably completely fine. But for me, I find that one, the iOS version's limited functionality, coupled with not being able to truly multitask like on a Mac, and the smaller screen, make using that app to get anything done very difficult and excruciatingly slow. On my Mac mini I have multiple windows open, including GarageSale, iPhoto, which I will drag and drop photos from into my auction template, and have my browsers open which come in handy to reference my other auctions, check prices on research websites to nail down a final price to list the item at, and get additional background information on items if needed.

On the iPad, in this particular example, I basically have to do each of those steps one at a time, closing each app to open another and find what I need. It's so much easier to do all of that on a larger screen on a Mac. Having the keyboard does make typing much faster, but overall, the iPad experience for me on that example is very slow and unproductive - not that it can't do it.

That's not to say I don't love my iPad and use it multiple times throughout the day, and exclusively at the end of the day when I switch into brain-dead content consumption mode and just want to play a game, watch a video, sit on the couch or lie in bed, etc.

There are many things that the iPad does work great at creating. It really is just what actual use a person needs to get out of a device that matters which device works best for them.

Ariii
Dec 4, 2012, 09:29 PM
The Mini isn't even remotely comparable to an iBook. You can use an iBook G4 as a main machine, but not an iPad Mini. Trying to find software for an iPhone with an outdated version of iOS is much harder than finding apps for a laptop, even similarly-spec'd, after the same amount of time; being limited to the App Store puts a large limit on what you can do. You can't change the OS, which isn't that nice. Or upgrade from the built-in storage once it wears out/has better alternatives. You can't customize anything or use a command-line. Also, multitasking is so, so much nicer on any iBook compared to any iPad.

I've liked the design of the iBooks so much better than the iPad's design, personally :). I use a clamshell iBook nearly everyday and I could probably do a lot more with an iBook than a newest-gen iPad.

rjcalifornia
Dec 4, 2012, 10:02 PM
Hello everyone out there in PPC land!

I was at school today and decided to bring my iPad mini to class with me instead of my iBook for one important reason; weight. But while taking notes on it, I started comparing the devices.

My iBook is 7 years old now and does not support flash 11, has wireless G Internet, has enough RAM to run Leopard pretty well according to my needs, but is quickly becoming less and less useful as the hardware/software requirements for certain apps and websites become more demanding of more recent technology.

My iPad on the other hand has wireless N, has plenty of RAM to run all the iOS apps I need to run, streams Netflix, can share my iTunes library completely, the battery lasts longer, the screen resolution is the same as my iBook, I can use FaceTime(unfair comparison I know!), and other stuff as well. It seems to me that the only advantages of having the iBook now is the existence of the ODD(which I have only used to install iWork '09 and reinstall the OS via disk utility on the Mac OS X install disk), and the available HDD space which is really only a few GBs due it being a 40GB HDD.

What do you guys think? Am I forgetting anything?

I hope you are joking :D

Anyways, I agree with Jessica, laptops are for content creation...

Youtube?

Flash runs pretty well. One video at a time :rolleyes:

Typing?

I am a blogger, I do it on a daily basis, that's my job. So no, the iPad is useless for my job. I use my ibook G4 for typing and it does the job quite well. I use Office 08 for spell check, and other stuffs that no iPad can offer me.


Battery?

My iBook last around 3 hours. Of course I do heavy work like picture editing Photoshop, Web Design, debugging, template creating, on a daily basis. I can't even do that on an iPad, may be well, but it will be soooo sloooow...

Wireless G?

Really? Most of the places by now have over 5 MB of speed connection. Wireless G does the job quite well.

Netflix?

I use my xbox 360 for that :)

HDD?

I use SSD and store everything on CD/DVD/ 32 GB USB

Jessica Lares
Dec 4, 2012, 10:11 PM
Youtube?

Flash runs pretty well. One video at a time :rolleyes:

I hope you're not watching more than one video at a time! :eek: :eek: :eek:

rjcalifornia
Dec 4, 2012, 10:18 PM
I hope you're not watching more than one video at a time! :eek: :eek: :eek:

I do, there's a site that uses flash for videos, and I can even watch 3 videos at the same time with no issues. Of course those sites are NSFW :cool:

RedCroissant
Dec 4, 2012, 10:29 PM
I hope you are joking :D

Anyways, I agree with Jessica, laptops are for content creation...

Youtube?

Flash runs pretty well. One video at a time :rolleyes:

Typing?

I am a blogger, I do it on a daily basis, that's my job. So no, the iPad is useless for my job. I use my ibook G4 for typing and it does the job quite well. I use Office 08 for spell check, and other stuffs that no iPad can offer me.


Battery?

My iBook last around 3 hours. Of course I do heavy work like picture editing Photoshop, Web Design, debugging, template creating, on a daily basis. I can't even do that on an iPad, may be well, but it will be soooo sloooow...

Wireless G?

Really? Most of the places by now have over 5 MB of speed connection. Wireless G does the job quite well.

Netflix?

I use my xbox 360 for that :)

HDD?

I use SSD and store everything on CD/DVD/ 32 GB USB

Youtube for my G4 is painfully slow and most of the time doesn't even load.

And yes, typing is better on my iBook than on the iPad. I have used my iBook for all of my actual school coursework, but have been relying on the iPad for notes during class since some of my classes last longer than my battery. <---yes, I know I need a new battery, but can't afford it just now.

I am not a heavy user anymore and use them mostly for school coursework and research. I used my iMac for video editing, dvd burning, very basic coding for a bit, and backing up my dvd collection(until the superdrive died) and still use it now for OS virtualization since a couple of my classes still require Internet Explorer.

Then I might be having problems with my airport card that I wasn't aware of until now because my iBook has not been handling the internet very well recently(actually for a few weeks now).

And yes, I use other devices for Netflix as well( recently sold my: TV, PS3, AppleTV2, 15" macbook pro). http://cdn.macrumors.com/vb/images/smilies/frown.gif

If I had the money to upgrade the iBook, then I would. a Mercury Legacy SSD would be a nice upgrade as well as the wireless N adapter and perhaps a new superdrive.

And speaking of SSD, which one are you using and have you noticed a significant difference in using it over the standard HDD? That might seem like a dumb question, but I was comparing read/write speeds for some of the SSDs available and some of them didn't seem like enough of an improvement over the traditional HDD to justify the expenditure.

rjcalifornia
Dec 4, 2012, 10:35 PM
Youtube for my G4 is painfully slow and most of the time doesn't even load.

And yes, typing is better on my iBook than on the iPad. I have used my iBook for all of my actual school coursework, but have been relying on the iPad for notes during class since some of my classes last longer than my battery. <---yes, I know I need a new battery, but can't afford it just now.

I am not a heavy user anymore and use them mostly for school coursework and research. I used my iMac for video editing, dvd burning, very basic coding for a bit, and backing up my dvd collection(until the superdrive died) and still use it now for OS virtualization since a couple of my classes still require Internet Explorer.

Then I might be having problems with my airport card that I wasn't aware of until now because my iBook has not been handling the internet very well recently(actually for a few weeks now).

And yes, I use other devices for Netflix as well( recently sold my: TV, PS3, AppleTV2, 15" macbook pro). http://cdn.macrumors.com/vb/images/smilies/frown.gif

If I had the money to upgrade the iBook, then I would. a Mercury Legacy SSD would be a nice upgrade as well as the wireless N adapter and perhaps a new superdrive.

And speaking of SSD, which one are you using and have you noticed a significant difference in using it over the standard HDD? That might seem like a dumb question, but I was comparing read/write speeds for some of the SSDs available and some of them didn't seem like enough of an improvement over the traditional HDD to justify the expenditure.

I changed 'cause of security. You can't trust normal hard drives.

Batteries are cheap, like dead cheap. I got mine for 20 bucks, international shipping included, original apple one.

Notes for classes? You're better with your ibook, rather than iPad :)

Imixmuan
Dec 4, 2012, 10:42 PM
Youtube for my G4 is painfully slow and most of the time doesn't even load.

I've never had a youtube video "not load". I don't want to turn this into yet another "how to play youtube on PPC macs" post, but with mactubes, youview downloadhelper and viewtube I'd say pretty much all youtube video is accessible on PPC, inside the browser and out, and plays more than acceptably on my ibook G4.

But then again I don't mind watching my video in 360 and 480p, which some people today think is the moral equivalent of being drawn and quartered.

RedCroissant
Dec 4, 2012, 10:49 PM
I changed 'cause of security. You can't trust normal hard drives.

Batteries are cheap, like dead cheap. I got mine for 20 bucks, international shipping included, original apple one.

Notes for classes? You're better with your ibook, rather than iPad :)

I know the iBook would be better for notes in some classes, but those classes outlast my iBook battery; and you might be surprised how well the iPad works for notes anyway.

I saw a battery from OWC that I might be able to get soon and is advertised to give "up to 20% more time" than the original. We'll see. Was yours new?

,

----------

I've never had a youtube video "not load". I don't want to turn this into yet another "how to play youtube on PPC macs" post, but with mactubes, youview downloadhelper and viewtube I'd say pretty much all youtube video is accessible on PPC, inside the browser and out, and plays more than acceptably on my ibook G4.

But then again I don't mind watching my video in 360 and 480p, which some people today think is the moral equivalent of being drawn and quartered.

I actually completely forgot about the youtube apps available. I don't mind watching videos at those resolutions either since that's what I'm used to for the most part with my iBook and other machines I've had over the years.

EDIT: Mactubes works perfectly! Thanks for that.

cocacolakid
Dec 4, 2012, 11:15 PM
I know the iBook would be better for notes in some classes, but those classes outlast my iBook battery; and you might be surprised how well the iPad works for notes anyway.

I saw a battery from OWC that I might be able to get soon and is advertised to give "up to 20% more time" than the original. We'll see. Was yours new?

,

----------



I actually completely forgot about the youtube apps available. I don't mind watching videos at those resolutions either since that's what I'm used to for the most part with my iBook and other machines I've had over the years.

EDIT: Mactubes works perfectly! Thanks for that.

Mactubes does work great, when it works. Because Youtube is constantly adjusting their website, Mactubes often "breaks" until the Mactubes developers release an update to fix it again.

The work around is to just make a Flash workaround work in your browser, which is pretty easy to do now that several very nice people here showed me.

If you use TenFourFox or any Firefox based browser, first install Greasemonkey (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/greasemonkey/) add on and enable it. Then go here and click on install in the upper right corner of that page: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/87011 - if you get a page full of text, you haven't installed Greasemonkey yet. When Greasemonkey is installed clicking on that link will actually launch Greasemonkey.

It's been a while since I've done this but I think that's it. Now you can watch Youtube videos in your browser (in non-HD). You can choose format to play video as - HTML5, MP4, etc. instead of Flash.

If you use a webkit based browser like Safari, iCab, etc. you'll need to install Greasekit instead of Greasemonkey, then go to the link above and install that script. If you are using a webkit based browser other than Safari, you still have to install that in Safari and open Greasekit and enable other apps to use Greasekit. I hope I've explained that correctly, again, it's been a while since I did install those, but it works great. Far better than Flash and I find it easier to just watch most videos in the browser than launch MacTubes everytime - unless I want to watch a nice HD trailer or something full screen, then MacTubes works great for that.

Here is the original thread that was in, lots of good tips here, post 9 by B-G is where I got those links/info from:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1291750&highlight=flash

RedCroissant
Dec 4, 2012, 11:50 PM
Mactubes does work great, when it works. Because Youtube is constantly adjusting their website, Mactubes often "breaks" until the Mactubes developers release an update to fix it again.

The work around is to just make a Flash workaround work in your browser, which is pretty easy to do now that several very nice people here showed me.




Thank you very much for this. I like making sure my machines work the way they're supposed to and the fact that other people have found other ways to make older machines continue to work is awesome.