NO mayor orders evacuation....But he just said I could come home

[stubeeef]

this one is just too rich, didn't think he need to evade the fickler finger of Awesome Administration award.

Just like the feds/fema/bush, this guy is high on the "What Me?!" list. IMHOLink (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050920/ts_nm/katrina_wrap_dc)

Thousands of people streamed back into the relatively untouched west bank neighborhood of Algiers, across the Mississippi River from the French Quarter, despite protests from President George W. Bush and his New Orleans relief director, Coast Guard Vice Admiral Thad Allen, that it was too soon for their return.

They warned that returning now could be dangerous, due to a lack of electricity, drinkable water and emergency services in most of the city.

"The mayor is working hard. ... He's got this dream about having a city up and running, and we share that dream," Bush told reporters at the White House. "But we also want to be realistic about some of the hurdles and obstacles that we all confront in repopulating New Orleans."

The president has come under heavy criticism for a slow federal response to initial Katrina relief efforts.

Nagin's decision on Monday to get people out and not allow any more in came after a meeting with Allen.

"Our re-entry plan has gone very smoothly," Nagin said of Algiers.

But, he told reporters, "I am concerned about this hurricane getting in the Gulf. I am very concerned about us clearing out the east bank of New Orleans totally to deal with this next threat."

[iGary]

My sister was looking forward to going home...not.

What a joke Nagin is...and everyone points their finger at the administration...

[clayj]

Where did I hear Nagin was most recently? Dallas?

As I've said, I think the evacuation of New Orleans should be made a permanent one.

[Ugg]

I think the most important factor is the threat of future flooding due to Rita. It's not surprising that the Mayor wants to get his city back on its feet but it does seem a little premature given the infrastructure is virtually non-existent.

Of course, had bushco done anything in the first place the city might be ready for limited repopulation by now....

[Deepdale]

As I've said, I think the evacuation of New Orleans should be made a permanent one.

Given the devastating damage, that city is uninhabitable for the forseeable future. The logistical and structural problems that await have the potential to make officials and residents alike seem like the typical audience at a Jerry Springer show.

[pseudobrit]

What a joke Nagin is...and everyone points their finger at the administration...

What a joke this administration is. While all the simple, unoriginal sheep-like partisan hacks point their fingers at Nagin.

[edit ]Nagin simply listened to FEMA. You're just using anything the man does now as another attempt to smear him as being a poor leader so you can prop up the way you feel about "your guy," Bush, who totally and royally ****ed up the whole deal on his one and only shot.

[pseudobrit]

As I've said, I think the evacuation of New Orleans should be made a permanent one.

So if some parts of say -- I don't know, maybe Charlotte -- ever get flooded out, you'd think it was a good idea to just leave everything behind and desert the whole city?

New Orleans is a gem.

[iGary]

What a joke this administration is. While all the simple, unoriginal sheep-like partisan hacks point their fingers at Nagin.

Hate, hate, hate. :rolleyes:

Typical.

Don't point fingers at the city administration that ignored warnings after two DEVASTATING hurricanes hit not 70-90 miles to the east last year...

Don't point fingers at the administration that ignores good common sense...

Don't pont fingers at the administration who's police, fire and other vital services wer TOTALLY unprepared for what had been warned of for years...

If all you got is calling me a sheep-like partisan hack, then, yeah, you go playah. ;)

At least I can see faults in both the Feds and the local government. Sheep indeed. Take off the blinders.

[MacDawg]

Uncalled for...

I too, think that there is enough blame to go around for everyone, especially the mayor. There was a lot of mismanagement, but I can't say that I believe it was racially motivated or malicious. It was human, on all sides.

Woof, Woof – Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

[stubeeef]

I usually know I have hit a true cord when the typical "W did it" crowd says the same ole thing like a broken record.

Wonder why W didn't call for the evacuation, why didn't the admin tell the locals to get the school buses and bus people out, why didn't W make sure the levee commission spent money on repairs instead of water fountains. Ya maybe I should ask him if my electrolytes are low.

[katchow]

ahhh, a nice meaty bone for the Bush apologists.

[WinterMute]

Keep it civil people, this is obviously a deeply felt issue, but that doesn't excuse personal and aggressive attacks.

Debate, don't bate.

[skunk]

I thought the previous thorough flogging of this dying horse had produced an agreement that all levels of government were lamentably slow on the uptake here. The Mayor being a twat does not excuse the Governor being a twat, the Mayor and the Governor both dropping the ball does not excuse Brown, Chertoff and the WH for their own abysmal performance. This was a system-wide failure of response.

[iGary]

This was a system-wide failure of response.

Bravo!

[clayj]

So if some parts of say -- I don't know, maybe Charlotte -- ever get flooded out, you'd think it was a good idea to just leave everything behind and desert the whole city?

New Orleans is a gem.Doesn't matter. Your hypothetical question about Charlotte is illogical because no part of Charlotte lies less than 200 feet ABOVE SEA LEVEL.

New Orleans is built in a bowl that's below sea level, surrounded by a lake and a major river that are both higher up than the city, in an area that's prone to hurricanes and floods. Levees work in both directions, you know... they may keep river and lake water out (temporarily), but they also keep flood waters IN when they make it into the city.

N.O. may be a gem, but it's a gem that's been stored in a stupid place, out in the open and exposed to constant danger. It needs to be moved to a safer place.

[skunk]

Levees work in both directions, you know... they may keep river and lake water out (temporarily), but they also keep flood waters IN when they make it into the city.?? If the river and lakewater are higher than the drains, how can this be so? Does not compute.

[Lyle]

I thought the previous thorough flogging of this dying horse had produced an agreement that all levels of government were lamentably slow on the uptake here. The Mayor being a twat does not excuse the Governor being a twat, the Mayor and the Governor both dropping the ball does not excuse Brown, Chertoff and the WH for their own abysmal performance. This was a system-wide failure of response.Yes. And as for the current thread's topic, I don't care whether Nagin gets blame or praise for his decision to evacuate (re-evacuate?) the city in anticipation of Rita, I'm just glad that he's doing it. I think it's probably the right thing to do given the circumstances.

[clayj]

?? If the river and lakewater are higher than the drains, how can this be so? Does not compute.The levees are higher than the city and the lake AND the river... any water that needs to be drained from the city proper has to be PUMPED into the river. When the pumps fail, as they did in this case, any water in the city STAYS in the city.

Seriously, New Orleans is like a leaky dinghy... the water is CONSTANTLY a threat, not just when there's a hurricane. It's really no better off than Venice.

[iGary]

?? If the river and lakewater are higher than the drains, how can this be so? Does not compute.

On a normal day, N.O has to pump water OUT of the city.

[skunk]

Seriously, New Orleans is like a leaky dinghy... the water is CONSTANTLY a threat, not just when there's a hurricane. It's really no better off than Venice.Venice has lasted about 1,500 years.

Anyway, NO could be a useful exercise in getting flood prevention right: quite a number of major cities are going to be under threat in the next few years due to rising sea levels.

[clayj]

Venice has lasted about 1,500 years.But that doesn't mean that if Venice's houses were to be flooded above their rooftops and the entire city coated in a thin film of toxic crap, that it would make sense to drop a good-sized fraction of a TRILLION DOLLARS to rebuild it. Venice is only still there because nothing really bad has happened to it yet.

Anyway, NO could be a useful exercise in getting flood prevention right: quite a number of major cities are going to be under threat in the next few years due to rising sea levels.Does that mean we can expect financial backing from the mayors of Amsterdam, Venice, Hong Kong, London, Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, Mumbai, Shanghai, and Djakarta, and/or their respective governments, to help pay for conducting this "exercise"? After all, those are all large cities that lie just above or at sea level.

The best way to avoid flooding is not to build your city below sea level. Honestly, even a brain-damaged rhesus monkey knows that.

[Don't panic]

Venice has lasted about 1,500 years.

Anyway, NO could be a useful exercise in getting flood prevention right: quite a number of major cities are going to be under threat in the next few years due to rising sea levels.

venice is not normally under sea levels, just during some high tides (but it is slowly sinking under its own weight)
conversely, not all NO is under sea level (e.g: the french quarter is not) but I think all or most of it is under river level. I think some serious redisign should go into the city, but it doesn't need to be abandoned (maybe some areas).

also, with all the reconstruction that will be going on (not only in NO), will people finally learn that houses CAN be built with concrete and bricks and that they are, surprisingly, more solid than cardboard ones?

I think people in hurricane-prone areas should be forced to read "three little pigs" every single night.

[Don't panic]

Honestly, even a brain-damaged rhesus monkey knows that.

i suspect that might not be technically correct

[stubeeef]

I thought the previous thorough flogging of this dying horse had produced an agreement that all levels of government were lamentably slow on the uptake here. The Mayor being a twat does not excuse the Governor being a twat, the Mayor and the Governor both dropping the ball does not excuse Brown, Chertoff and the WH for their own abysmal performance. This was a system-wide failure of response.

Very well said!

[mactastic]

What a joke Nagin is...and everyone points their finger at the administration...
Hate, hate, hate.

Typical.
Hehe.... I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning!

Come on Gary, weren't you faulting the mayor not one week ago for not evacuating sooner? There's no pleasing you people, is there?

Many of us have said there were failures on the local, state, and federal levels. You on the other hand, seem only able to see the failures by Democrats.

Hate on my friend.

[iGary]

Hehe.... I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning!

Come on Gary, weren't you faulting the mayor not one week ago for not evacuating sooner? There's no pleasing you people, is there?

Many of us have said there were failures on the local, state, and federal levels. You on the other hand, seem only able to see the failures by Democrats.

Hate on my friend.

How so? I said there were problems on all levels...

I have never faulted the mayor for not evacuating sooner. Ever.

Keep making stuff up. Go on. :p :D

[skunk]

Does that mean we can expect financial backing from the mayors of Amsterdam, Venice, Hong Kong, London, Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, Mumbai, Shanghai, and Djakarta, and/or their respective governments, to help pay for conducting this "exercise"? After all, those are all large cities that lie just above or at sea level.You could probably expect technical assistance from those of them which have addressed the problem successfully, and at their own expense, like Amsterdam and London. The rest is up to you.

The best way to avoid flooding is not to build your city below sea level. Honestly, even a brain-damaged rhesus monkey knows that.However, seeing how it's going to be an increasingly common situation, even a brain-damaged rhesus monkey (thank you for that) might recognise that it's not necessarily fatal to have parts of the city below sea level if you build proper protection. Obviously in New Orlens' case, it wasn't regarded as a priority. after all, most of the people affected by the "constant leaking" were probably poor, black and lucky to be alive.

And by the way, Venice has been flooded, a number of times. They just clean up and carry on.

[stubeeef]

i suspect that might not be technically correct
you forgot to ask for a link.

Maybe N.O. should be an american Venice. Leave it flooded and build on top of the existing buildings. A much better plan. Leave the streets flooded.

[Don't panic]

you forgot to ask for a link .
:D:D

[mactastic]

The levees are higher than the city and the lake AND the river... any water that needs to be drained from the city proper has to be PUMPED into the river. When the pumps fail, as they did in this case, any water in the city STAYS in the city.

Seriously, New Orleans is like a leaky dinghy... the water is CONSTANTLY a threat, not just when there's a hurricane. It's really no better off than Venice.
Would you have advocated against rebuilding San Francisco in 1906? What if SF is destroyed again? What if a major quake shakes LA? Should it be rebuilt? Or should we rebuild it 200 miles east?

The probability of a major quake striking one of California's big cities in the next 50 years is a near certainty -- just as was a major hurricane hit on New Orleans.

[clayj]

Would you have advocated against rebuilding San Francisco in 1906? What if SF is destroyed again? What if a major quake shakes LA? Should it be rebuilt? Or should we rebuild it 200 miles east?

The probability of a major quake striking one of California's big cities in the next 50 years is a near certainty -- just as was a major hurricane hit on New Orleans.It's useless arguing about things that happened almost 100 years ago... so I'm not going to do it. This is a different world we live in.

If SF is destroyed by a quake (destroyed = most buildings leveled, fires due to ruptured gas lines, major bridges heavily damaged or destroyed), then yes, I'd be against rebuilding SF as some sort of public works project. SF got where it is by starting as a small town which collected taxes and gradually built up its infrastructure. The notion that we should somehow just "build" an entire city from scratch on the site of a previous city which Mother Nature whacked is silly. The same applies to LA, although LA is a bit safer due to not being as densely populated, less hills in dense areas, etc.

All I'm saying is that we should not let sentimentality get in the way of common sense. The common sense is that New Orleans is below sea level and it IS, repeat IS going to get slammed by another hurricane... not within 50 years, but MUCH sooner.

[rdowns]

I've posted quite a few times slamming Bush and the feds for their inadequate response.

The fact is, Nagin and that weak ass governor (have you ever seen a weaker politician speak?) share the balme here. ( I love playing the blame game).

Nagin keep moving up my list. Re-opening the city against the wishes of the Admiral in charge was just plain butt stupid. As ide of that, no 911 system, electricity in many areas, no phone service, no potabel water. What the hell was he thinking? I'm sure the cable TV industry will welcome him back with open arms.

[mactastic]

There is virtually no part of the US where you can build and be guaranteed that nature will not come and take you out somehow. Blizzards, tornadoes, hurricanes, fires, floods, earthquakes happen across this entire country.

Is there any disaster for which you would support a large public-works project?

[katchow]

ok, completely OT and pointless but everytime i see Ray i'm reminded of pro baller Drew Gooden. Maybe its just me :p


http://www.cavshistory.com/images/players/Drew_Gooden.jpghttp://www.citymayors.com/pics_people/orleans_ray_nagin.jpg

[clayj]

There is virtually no part of the US where you can build and be guaranteed that nature will not come and take you out somehow. Blizzards, tornadoes, hurricanes, fires, floods, earthquakes happen across this entire country.

Is there any disaster for which you would support a large public-works project?Again with the hypotheticals.

I don't support this one, for all of the reasons I've already stated. Below sea level, surrounded by water, flood-prone and hurricane-prone. Many of those "disasters" you mentioned are completely random in where they strike, so you can't plan against those (fire? come on), and blizzards don't destroy cities except in movies. Neither do tornadoes (small towns, certainly, but those won't cost 300 billion dollars or more to rebuild).

[pseudobrit]

The notion that we should somehow just "build" an entire city from scratch on the site of a previous city which Mother Nature whacked is silly.

You know that much, I repeat MUCH of New Orleans and its suburbs survived virtually unscathed? Should they abandon that too? Or just abandon the downtown, leaving the suburbs with no city?

And you know of its national importance as a port and that such a port requires a city to service it?

And these ain't no hypotheticals.

[mactastic]

How so? I said there were problems on all levels...
So did I and nearly everyone else in this forum. Didn't stop you from throwing out this just for hates and giggles:
and everyone points their finger at the administration...

I have never faulted the mayor for not evacuating sooner. Ever.

Keep making stuff up. Go on. :p :D
Do you know the difference between a question and a declaration Gary? I was asking if you were faulting the mayor for not evacuating sooner prior to Katrina. If not, I'd suggest you go look up the difference before you accuse me of making things up.

[pseudobrit]

Again with the hypotheticals.

I don't support this one, for all of the reasons I've already stated. Below sea level, surrounded by water, flood-prone and hurricane-prone. Many of those "disasters" you mentioned are completely random in where they strike, so you can't plan against those (fire? come on), and blizzards don't destroy cities except in movies. Neither do tornadoes (small towns, certainly, but those won't cost 300 billion dollars or more to rebuild).

If the sea levels rise and New York requires sea walls and levees to protect it, would you rather see it abandoned?

[skunk]

Precisely my point.

[IJ Reilly]

Again with the hypotheticals.

I don't support this one, for all of the reasons I've already stated. Below sea level, surrounded by water, flood-prone and hurricane-prone. Many of those "disasters" you mentioned are completely random in where they strike, so you can't plan against those (fire? come on), and blizzards don't destroy cities except in movies. Neither do tornadoes (small towns, certainly, but those won't cost 300 billion dollars or more to rebuild).

Wrong. You are only playing an amateur risk assessment game here, with no data to support it. Every part of the country is exposed to some sort of disaster risk, some more or less destructive, and more or less probable -- but there just the same. You'd be surprised at the number of places we live where the natural risks of habitation have to be managed in one way or another. In fact your snarky reference to fire tells me how narrow your view is apparently. Let's put it this way: by your reckoning, all of Southern California should be abandoned for human habitation. Just ask anyone who was here two years ago next month, when the entire region was on fire.

[skunk]

your snarky referenceNice.
:)

[iGary]

Do you know the difference between a question and a declaration Gary? I was asking if you were faulting the mayor for not evacuating sooner prior to Katrina. If not, I'd suggest you go look up the difference before you accuse me of making things up.

Youy know exactly what you did, and don't try and wiggle out of it with definitions and technicalities. You know that no one is going to go back and try and dig up a post where I may have slammed the mayor, so you're pretty safe in just throwing it in for, as you say "giggles."

You implied that I was feverishly anti-Nagin with your first response to me. Give all of us a bit more credit, will you? :rolleyes:

[pseudobrit]

Precisely my point.

People see graphic depictions of cross-sections of "bowl" New Orleans and I think it messes up their ability to understand that it's an huge, sprawling metropolis which carries all that entails.

It's not the quaint little "city in a bowl" that the stupid AP graphic shows. It spills out for thousands of sqaure acres.

[iGary]

If the sea levels rise and New York requires sea walls and levees to protect it, would you rather see it abandoned?

If the climate changes in Florida and we can't grow oranges anymore, should we create a virtual orange environment in a glass dome to supply the world with OJ?

Ask some real questions, will someone...please?

[skunk]

If the climate changes in Florida and we can't grow oranges anymore, should we create a virtual orange environment in a glass dome to supply the world with OJ?That certainly wasn't the question.

[mactastic]

Again with the hypotheticals.

I don't support this one, for all of the reasons I've already stated. Below sea level, surrounded by water, flood-prone and hurricane-prone. Many of those "disasters" you mentioned are completely random in where they strike, so you can't plan against those (fire? come on), and blizzards don't destroy cities except in movies. Neither do tornadoes (small towns, certainly, but those won't cost 300 billion dollars or more to rebuild).
I think we've established enough. You don't believe in using federal money to rebuild areas hit by predictable natural disasters.

I'm guessing you'd feel different were it your hometown, although I'm sure you'll deny it just to prove me wrong.

[katchow]

If the climate changes in Florida and we can't grow oranges anymore, should we create a virtual orange environment in a glass dome to supply the world with OJ?

Ask some real questions, will someone...please?

what if florida is repeatedly hit w/ hurricanes. should we stop pouring money into repairs? oh wait a minute...

[skunk]

what if florida is repeatedly hit w/ hurricanes. should we stop pouring money into repairs? oh wait a minute...
:D

[MacDawg]

Just my opinion, but I'll jump in here...

Plenty of blame to go around for everyone, so nobody should be shy in admitting it... everyone was caught with their pants down.

New Orleans is important in terms of history, culture, the economy, and even the spirit of America and should be rebuilt, with as many safeguards as reasonably and economically as possible.

Woof, Woof – Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

[iGary]

what if florida is repeatedly hit w/ hurricanes. should we stop pouring money into repairs? oh wait a minute...

Nope. Nor should we not rebuild in N.O.

Good. Real questions. We're getting somewhere.

[mactastic]

Youy know exactly what you did, and don't try and wiggle out of it with definitions and technicalities. You know that no one is going to go back and try and dig up a post where I may have slammed the mayor, so you're pretty safe in just throwing it in for, as you say "giggles."

You implied that I was feverishly anti-Nagin with your first response to me. Give all of us a bit more credit, will you? :rolleyes:
Hey, if you don't like being called out when you hate, don't do it. You are more than welcome to say you never hated on Nagin before in response to my query.

Of course, you never even bothered to query before you accused us of pointing fingers at the Bush administration. But that's ok, right? IOKIYAR.... :rolleyes:

[clayj]

I think we've established enough. You don't believe in using federal money to rebuild areas hit by predictable natural disasters.

I'm guessing you'd feel different were it your hometown, although I'm sure you'll deny it just to prove me wrong.Let's see:

Risk of Charlotte being destroyed by floods: nil
by earthquake: nil
by blizzards: nil
by tornado: nil (maybe PARTS of the city, but that's true for almost anywhere in the Southern/Midwestern US)
by fire: same as anywhere else
by hurricane: practically nil (Hugo hit in '89, but the damage was mostly localized and involved a lot of trees and power lines being downed... and there was ZERO flooding)

I really wish you all would stop implying that I advocate the abandonment of cities that lie in bad places. That's not it at all. What I am against is pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into REBUILDING cities that have already demonstrated in the most Darwinian fashion that they are badly sited. We all know that SF is at risk, but the city hasn't been destroyed YET.

[mactastic]

We all know that SF is at risk, but the city hasn't been destroyed YET.
Now I know you've stated that you don't like thinking about old events but YES IT HAS!

[clayj]

Now I know you've stated that you don't like thinking about old events but YES IT HAS!1906 = ancient history, dude. When it was burned and shaken, it didn't cost THAT much to rebuild... and the American taxpayers weren't asked to pay for it, because there was no income tax at the time.

If private interests want to rebuild NO because of its port facilities, that's their own lookout. Personally, I think the Mississippi should be allowed to follow its natural course, down the Atchafalaya River and into the Gulf of Mexico at Morgan City... and that's where new port facilities should be built.

[katchow]

Nope. Nor should we not rebuild in N.O.

Good. Real questions. We're getting somewhere.

to tell the truth, i have more fun trying to figure out who politicians resemble :o

[iGary]

Hey, if you don't like being called out when you hate, don't do it. You are more than welcome to say you never hated on Nagin before in response to my query.

Of course, you never even bothered to query before you accused us of pointing fingers at the Bush administration. But that's ok, right? IOKIYAR.... :rolleyes:

Hey as long as we're playing games with technicalities, and meanings of words, I never said anyone here pointed fingers at the Bush administration, right?

Right.

Evidently I am not the one who doesn't like being called out...I'm not the one who started personal attacks...

Now do you want to continue to play semantics or actually debate something?

[IJ Reilly]

1906 = ancient history, dude. When it was burned and shaken, it didn't cost THAT much to rebuild... and the American taxpayers weren't asked to pay for it, because there was no income tax at the time.

Virtually the entire city was destroyed, dude.

Anyway, I've got an idea -- let's all move the Charlotte, the only safe place in America!

You okay with that?

[Mike Teezie]

Virtually the entire city was destroyed, dude.

Anyway, I've got an idea -- let's all move the Charlotte, the only safe place in America!

You okay with that?

I'm not, I want my effing city back.

[clayj]

Virtually the entire city was destroyed, dude.

Anyway, I've got an idea -- let's all move the Charlotte, the only safe place in America!

You okay with that?Wow, you are the master of hyperbole.

And we're fine with you moving here as long as you can pay your way and not rely on the public to bail you out.

[skunk]

Wow, you are the master of hyperbole.Is that one step up from a Superdome?

[katchow]

to tell the truth, i have more fun trying to figure out who politicians resemble :o


http://www.spacedaily.com/images/michael-chertoff-bg.jpg http://www.moviemaker.com/guides/05/images/a-d.Nosferatu.jpg

i'm done promise :o

[zimv20]

a minor point, and one i should have made a long time ago, but the proper abbreviation of New Orleans is NOLA. every time i see NO, i think someone is being emphatically negative.

an odd thought, reading through this thread, eh? :-)

btw, chicago is obviously a mess and should be abandoned straightaway. what were we thinking, rebuilding after the Great Chicago Fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire)?

[iGary]

a minor point, and one i should have made a long time ago, but the proper abbreviation of New Orleans is NOLA. every time i see NO, i think someone is being emphatically negative.

an odd thought, reading through this thread, eh? :-)

btw, chicago is obviously a mess and should be abandoned straightaway. what were we thinking, rebuilding after the Great Chicago Fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire)?

LOL, now you guys are pulling arson out of your hats?

*dies* :D

[zimv20]

LOL, now you guys are pulling arson out of your hats?

"you guys?" you mean me? and who said anything about arson?

[iGary]

"you guys?" you mean me? and who said anything about arson?

The cow set the fire...and then later they discovered the lady was resposible...in other words..I was just kidding...joking..having a good time.

Geebus, sensitive. :rolleyes:

[katchow]

The cow set the fire...and then later they discovered the lady was resposible...in other words..I was just kidding...joking..having a good time.

Geebus, sensitive. :rolleyes:

reminds me to renew my 'comet' insurance :rolleyes:

[zimv20]

The cow set the fire...and then later they discovered the lady was resposible...in other words..I was just kidding...joking..having a good time.

Geebus, sensitive.
confused, actually.

mrs o'leary was cleared a few years ago, after an investigation. read the link i provided.

[iGary]

confused, actually.

mrs o'leary was cleared a few years ago, after an investigation. read the link i provided.

Still, though, joking.

[mactastic]

Hey as long as we're playing games with technicalities, and meanings of words, I never said anyone here pointed fingers at the Bush administration, right?

Right.

Evidently I am not the one who doesn't like being called out...I'm not the one who started personal attacks...

Now do you want to continue to play semantics or actually debate something?
Where did I personally attack you Gary? Stop making **** up and let's debate. Did you have a point when you started? Or were you just hating on Nagin and 'everyone'?

[pseudobrit]

1906 = ancient history, dude.

And in ten years, when NOLA is fully rebuilt and functioning, people will be saying "2005 = ancient history, dude."

When it was burned and shaken, it didn't cost THAT much to rebuild...

$400M in 1906 dollars is nothing, I guess.

If private interests want to rebuild NO because of its port facilities, that's their own lookout. Personally, I think the Mississippi should be allowed to follow its natural course, down the Atchafalaya River and into the Gulf of Mexico at Morgan City... and that's where new port facilities should be built.

Funny you should mention that, because private interests are the reason the Mississippi is diverted the way it is. But that's their own lookout.

[pseudobrit]

Wow, you are the master of hyperbole.

This from the guy who just said what happened a century ago is "ancient history."

[clayj]

This from the guy who just said what happened a century ago is "ancient history."Yeah, whatever.

[pseudobrit]

Yeah, whatever.

Can't argue with that.

[blackfox]

This thread drifted a bit...

As to the original topic:

I must say I share the opinion held by many here that Nagin and his Administration were found to be somewhat lacking <ahem>, I can see the reasoning behind both (a) trying to get NOLA back on it's feet and repopulated ASAP, and (b) deciding to re-evacuate due to the weather forecasts.

As to the former, I am sure there is quite alot of revenue being lost by the city being unoccupied, tourist dollars, trade, etc. I am sure people who live(d) there are also anxious to get on with their lives at home. These things do create political pressure(s) and these are just two examples off the top of my head...there are many more to be sure.

As to the latter, well it's obviously good to show you've learned a lesson and to be more cautious and prepared this time around.


As to the topic drift:

Who the hell abandons a city of NOLA's size? That is a ridiculous proposition to put forward imo. Some of the reasons have already been covered by PB ( Port facilities/trade, large, unscathed potions of the city etc), but there is also the issues of the effects of abandonment on Louisiana as an entity, and of the larger issue concerning the fact that almost ALL of our major cities are unsafe/impractical due to demographic growth. Phoenix and LA are in deserts with no water which must then be diverted/pumped to them (at great cost). Some are prone to earthquakes, flash floods, mudslides (West Coast cities). Many more are just not built well due to a piecemeal growth plan over the years...etc etc.

Just rebuild the city properly as a symbol of US workmanship and unity.

[stubeeef]

Well atleast you posted without offending, congrats.

The building of NO reminds me of the ole Monty Python routine about the father of the groom to be married in "Search for the Holy Grail".

When the old man talks about building a castle in the swamp, and how many times they rebuilt the castle in the swamp cause it kept sinking and or burning. :p

[iGary]

Where did I personally attack you Gary? Stop making **** up and let's debate. Did you have a point when you started? Or were you just hating on Nagin and 'everyone'?

Laet's start here:

1. Where did I say you personally attacked me?

We'll go to 2 when you figure that one out.

[skunk]

Why don't you two just go and settle this in the playground? No biting or gouging, remember. ;)

[stubeeef]

Laet's start here:

1. Where did I say you personally attacked me?

We'll go to 2 when you figure that one out.

Hopefully he still has me on ignore, but I have to begin with the first part of his post #25. But hey, that is where it would start for me, but he seems like your tarbaby iGary.

[skunk]

he seems like your tarbaby iGary.I am getting a little weirded out by your 'tar, baby.

[stubeeef]

I am getting a little weirded out by your 'tar, baby.

So it's a bad hair day, we all have'm. Luckily people don't like me just because of my looks. :p

[skunk]

Luckily people don't like me just because of my looks. :pThis could be taken at least two ways.

[mactastic]

Laet's start here:

1. Where did I say you personally attacked me?

We'll go to 2 when you figure that one out.
I'm not the one who started personal attacks...
Whatever, I'm done. Continue this by yourself.

[iGary]

Whatever, I'm done. Continue this by yourself.

Does that say "Mactastic started personal attacks?"

No.

Does it say "You started with the personal attacks?"

No.

See when you guys get called on your little games you pick up your toys and run away.

Boo hoo.

[stubeeef]

This could be taken at least two ways.

Hey I got nothing to hide! And plenty of reason to not like me, but hey who's counting. :)

Don't know if you got the commercial over there that we had on this side of the pond, where the supermodel says "don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful." Ya that was a riot.

Well, this thread just shows who is oil, who is vinegar, and who is butter. (work it out on your own) :)

[skunk]

See when you guys get called on your little games you pick up your toys and run away.Who is "you guys"?

[~loserman~]

btw, chicago is obviously a mess and should be abandoned straightaway. what were we thinking, rebuilding after the Great Chicago Fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire)?

Did american taxpayers pay to rebuild the city?

Is Chicago built primarily out of wood soaked in gasoline?

[skunk]

Is Chicago built primarily out of wood soaked in gasoline?Not any longer.

[Don't panic]

Is Chicago built primarily out of wood soaked in gasoline?

close enough: "Helping the fire spread was ample fuel in the closely packed wood buildings, ships lining the river, the city's elevated wood-plank sidewalks, and the commercial lumber and coal yards along the river. The size of the blaze generated extremely strong winds and heat, which ignited rooftops far ahead of the actual flames."

[zimv20]

Did american taxpayers pay to rebuild the city?

seems like it's still coming out of my property taxes...

[Xtremehkr]

*Sniff* *Sniff*

Smells like bait.

I don't think that this one is all that hard to figure out.

[stubeeef]

Did american taxpayers pay to rebuild the city?

Is Chicago built primarily out of wood soaked in gasoline?


Too spot on.

This is the problem, national bailouts for coastal areas that repeatedly get devestated from hurricanes. Many of these people(my father in law included) don't buy hurricane insurance cause it cost too much and if things are bad the government will bail them out. It is a badly designed system. it encourages stupidity.

[clayj]

Too spot on.

This is the problem, national bailouts for coastal areas that repeatedly get devestated from hurricanes. Many of these people(my father in law included) don't buy hurricane insurance cause it cost too much and if things are bad the government will bail them out. It is a badly designed system. it encourages stupidity.Exactly. I, for one, am tired of bailing out people who choose to live in places that are in constant need of literal bailing out.

[blackfox]

Exactly. I, for one, am tired of bailing out people who choose to live in places that are in constant need of literal bailing out.
Not to pick on you specifically, but this attitudes equates the availability of choice with the means to exercise it. In other words, many people were born in NOLA, and may not have the means to move out of the only place they, or their family, have ever known.

There is, of course, also the matter of whether you would look at these choices the same way if it was your city in question or whether the people in NOLA should look at this in the way you do.

Or an adage involving babies and bathwater...

I am not trying to be argumentative, just thought I'd throw this out there...

[clayj]

Not to pick on you specifically, but this attitudes equates the availability of choice with the means to exercise it. In other words, many people were born in NOLA, and may not have the means to move out of the only place they, or their family, have ever known.And now that they are NOT there anymore, I think they should NOT go back. I don't fault them for being born there... obviously they have no control over that. But if we all are footing the bill for this disaster, I think we should spend more than 20 freaking minutes deciding how best to spend the money. The LOGICAL solution is NOT to let everyone just move back in... the Federal money would be better spent on resettlement efforts in DRYER places.

There is, of course, also the matter of whether you would look at these choices the same way if it was your city in question or whether the people in NOLA should look at this in the way you do. If MY city got shredded by an earthquake or was inundated by a flood because it lies in a flood plain, and if there was substantial evidence that it was going to happen AGAIN, I for damn sure would not want to move back there. And it WILL happen again. The classic definition of insanity is repeating a task and expecting a different result each time. New Orleans lies in a basin BELOW SEA LEVEL, sandwiched between a river and a lake which are BOTH higher than the city. It doesn't matter how high you build the dikes... it will flood again.

And I don't want to pay for that.

[~loserman~]

If MY city got shredded by an earthquake or was inundated by a flood because it lies in a flood plain, and if there was substantial evidence that it was going to happen AGAIN, I for damn sure would not want to move back there. And it WILL happen again. The classic definition of insanity is repeating a task and expecting a different result each time. New Orleans lies in a basin BELOW SEA LEVEL, sandwiched between a river and a lake which are BOTH higher than the city. It doesn't matter how high you build the dikes... it will flood again.

And I don't want to pay for that.

Heck, It might happen AGAIN this week.