New math or why outsourcing works

[stubeeef]

Got this via email and laughed, then I was sad, cause it seemed true. :(

Boy is this so true!!*
EVOLUTION OF MATH EDUCATION

Last week I purchased a burger at Burger King for $1.58. The counter
girl took my $2 and I was digging for my change when I pulled 8 cents
from my pocket and gave it to her. She stood there, holding the
nickel and 3 pennies, while looking at the screen on her register. I sensed
her discomfort and tried to tell her to just give me two quarters, but
she hailed the manager for help. While he tried to explain the
transaction to her, she stood there and cried.

Why do I tell you this?
Because of the evolution in teaching math since the 1950s:


Teaching Math In 1950

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of
production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?


Teaching Math In 1960

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of
production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?


Teaching Math In 1970

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of
production is $80. Did he make a profit?


Teaching Math In 1980

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of
production is $80 and his profit is $20.

Your assignment: Underline the number 20.


Teaching Math In 1990

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit
of $20. What do you think of this way of making a living?

Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did
the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There
are no wrong answers.)


Teaching Math In 2005

Un hachero vende una carretada de madera para $100. El costo de la
producci?n es $80

[skunk]

Got this via email and laughed, then I was sad, cause it seemed true. :(Painful to watch, but probably pretty accurate.

[Doctor Q]

Teaching Math In 2050

An interplanetary Fermium trader sells a cubic mile of of the element for $100,000,000,000. Her cost to create it from Rutherfordium using her portable Static Grangmund Chamber is 4/5 of the price. What is her profit?

[wdlove]

Teaching Math In 2050

An interplanetary Fermium trader sells a cubic mile of of the element for $100,000,000,000. Her cost to create it from Rutherfordium using her portable Static Grangmund Chamber is 4/5 of the price. What is her profit?

Now I know who to take with me if I decide to travel into the future. :D

[pseudobrit]

Teaching Math In 2050

An interplanetary Fermium trader sells a cubic mile of of the element for $100,000,000,000. Her cost to create it from Rutherfordium using her portable Static Grangmund Chamber is 4/5 of the price. What is her profit?

Trick question. An alien race subjugates the human race in 2037 and forces us into a brave new society of communism. There is no profit in MML (alien race also bans use of Arabic numerals).

[Lacero]

How would you factor in electron affinities and ionization energies in the Rutherfordium if it were to be created? This is something most people overlook.

[skunk]

This is something most people overlook.And rightly so, in my opinion.

[Doctor Q]

How would you factor in electron affinities and ionization energies in the Rutherfordium if it were to be created? This is something most people overlook.The chamber's photomitigant reflectors take care of that. That's why Dr. Grangmund won the Nobel prize in 2036 (a year before the Alpha Centurions took over).

[ham_man]

Yea. People are pretty dumb. There is this one junior girl in my Algebra II Pre-AP class who does not know the formula for putting a line in slope-intercept form. We are going down folks, we are going down...*sigh*

[skunk]

Yea. People are pretty dumb. There is this one junior girl in my Algebra II Pre-AP class who does not know the formula for putting a line in slope-intercept form.Huh?

I mean, that's shocking!

[stubeeef]

I don't mean to be alarmist, but it is scary how there is a large segment of the population that is math challenged and reading challenged (ya I have some of both). How can we as a nation compete in a world that has put a value on this knowledge?

[Don't panic]

I don't mean to be alarmist, but it is scary how there is a large segment of the population that is math challenged and reading challenged (ya I have some of both). How can we as a nation compete in a world that has put a value on this knowledge?

invest more on education?

[pseudobrit]

invest more on education?

commie

[zimv20]

invest more on education?
you mean like this? (http://www.cta.org/PoliticsandLegislation/ESEA/ExecutiveSummary.htm)

The current reauthorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA), known as No Child Left Behind (NCLB), raises high expectations for achievement and imposes stringent measures of accountability on students, teachers, and schools. Yet it fell short of full funding by more than $32 billion in 2003. Eight other federal education programs serving Americans from preschool age through adulthood had funding gaps totaling almost $49 billion for 2003. ESEA/NCLB received less than half of its full funding in 2003.

[groovebuster]

I find the political statement worrying that was made by the way how the year 1990 and 2005 were added to the list... Not funny at all, at least in my opinion...

groovebuster

[stubeeef]

I think we need a push on education, and have always said so. I think that teachers (not principals or superintendants) are way under paid.

But throwing money at it won't solve it. We need to get to basics, have less administration on the classroom level, and decide that the basics are more important than anything else, we also need to assure that no child is left behind. Because a system that produces some good students and some uneducated ones, is of little worth in my opinion. As it is now, we teach to the test, instead of the system before where we were taught to free think. Now it is how to answer a question, or game the test.

Has anyone seen the avg test scores since the birth of the Dept of Education? They have been flat for decades, after rising for decades. More admin of the situation is not needed. More money for teacher salaries, and less administration is what I advocate.

[Xtremehkr]

Anonymous emails addressing important subjects raise a red flag for me. A link would be handy.

[stubeeef]

Anonymous emails addressing important subjects raise a red flag for me. A link would be handy.

Alink to what? The crappy state of education in the US? Go outside and look around, it won't take long to see the results.

But since you insist on a link (http://www.mathematicallycorrect.com/usnoadd.htm)

[Don't panic]

I think we need a push on education, and have always said so. I think that teachers (not principals or superintendants) are way under paid.

But throwing money at it won't solve it. We need to get to basics, have less administration on the classroom level, and decide that the basics are more important than anything else, we also need to assure that no child is left behind. Because a system that produces some good students and some uneducated ones, is of little worth in my opinion. As it is now, we teach to the test, instead of the system before where we were taught to free think. Now it is how to answer a question, or game the test.

Has anyone seen the avg test scores since the birth of the Dept of Education? They have been flat for decades, after rising for decades. More admin of the situation is not needed. More money for teacher salaries, and less administration is what I advocate.

pay the teachers well, invest in their (re)training, invest in infrastructures, hire support teachers, establish after school programs (not to be funded by the PTA), promote public school and disincentivate private ones (away with the vouchers crap), disincentivate home schooling, introduce strict standards to pass to the next grade, limit the power of local boards to introduce bizarre curricula.
And yes, it's going to cost a lot of money. It's called an investment.

edit: and prohibit the freakin' calculators until college!

[~loserman~]

Trick question. An alien race subjugates the human race in 2037 and forces us into a brave new society of communism. There is no profit in MML (alien race also bans use of Arabic numerals).


FORCES US.....

That says it all.

[Xtremehkr]

That suggests that some attention needs to be paid to the public education system, if others are beating us at the same game, something should be done about ours.

Unless there is definitive evidence showing that a private education will somehow be better than what is offered publicly elsewhere.

The cost of a private education are resources that would most likely go into the economy. As it affects a majority who have less to spend on such things. It would also lead, potentially, to private direction of what is taught. Something to consider.

It's not an easily discussed topic, especially considering the framing in which this email and that link places it.

To be a fair discussion, arguments from both sides should be presented. I, for one, see many advantages in a well run public education system.

Emails from who knows where, no matter how good their thesis appears, need to stand up against opposing arguments in order to prevail, IMO.

Supply the best education, and the market will adjust accordingly through students demanding the avenues that will reward them the most. Education can adjust accordingly while still providing for those who wish to forge ahead in other subjects that may be less rewarding at the time, but are important overall.

Again, the email addresses a specific set of values that may not relate to all of the goals a good education system should meet. A good education means more than simply meeting the needs required by those who exist in the outsourcing market.

[Don't panic]

That suggests that some attention needs to be paid to the public education system, if others are beating us at the same game, something should be done about ours.
Unless there is definitive evidence showing that a private education will somehow be better than what is offered publicly elsewhere.
The cost of a private education are resources that would most likely go into the economy. As it affects a majority who have less to spend on such things. It would also lead, potentially, to private direction of what is taught. Something to consider.
It's not an easily discussed topic, especially considering the framing in which this email and that link places it.
To be a fair discussion, arguments from both sides should be presented. I, for one, see many advantages in a well run public education system.
Emails from who knows where, no matter how good their thesis appears, need to stand up against opposing arguments in order to prevail, IMO.

??? the only email in the thread is the initial joke on the decline of the education system in the US (math in particular). (and it's funny up to the 80s: the 90s political statement is unnecessary and the anti-hispanic bit just shouldn't be there, but that's a different story).
It's not a spot for private education.

I personally think that the excess of private education is one of the causes of the poor state of the education system and the depressing overall ignorance of a large fraction of americans, and it's certainly very divisive (along class and racial divides). Public education can work very well, as is shown in pretty much every other country in the world.
As far as the link about the sorry state of math teaching in this country, some of the curricula taugth are truly bizarre and highly ineffective

[Xtremehkr]

??? the only email in the thread is the initial joke on the decline of the education system in the US (math in particular). (and it's funny up to the 80s: the 90s political statement is unnecessary and the anti-hispanic bit just shouldn't be there, but that's a different story).
It's not a spot for private education.

I personally think that the excess of private education is one of the causes of the poor state of the education system and the depressing overall ignorance of a large fraction of americans, and it's certainly very divisive (along class and racial divides). Public education can work very well, as is shown in pretty much every other country in the world.
As far as the link about the sorry state of math teaching in this country, some of the curricula taugth are truly bizarre and highly ineffective

There where two points involved. More specifically, which is going to yield better results? A good public education system that meets the social and economic needs of the nation as a whole while not requiring the additional investment of individuals, beyond the taxes they pay. Or a private system, that is susceptible to becoming oriented on meeting certain needs at certain times, while not fulfilling the overall benefits of a system that can offer a variety all at the same time.

My bias is obvious. Even though, I feel that a wide reaching education should be constantly offered, with the ability to adapt to meeting increased demands in certain areas without affecting other areas. I think that is beyond a private system which would have a tendency to focus on one market need while needing time to readjust its resources to changing needs.

I feel that education is an area where it is better to offer every aspect of the knowledgeable curriculum. As inefficient as it may seem in some regards, it may be more efficient in others. The resources to adapt to changing tastes/market needs is already in place.

Aside from that, a good education system should offer all avenues of studies. I already feel that the majority of students are going to choose to study what is most economically viable for them. That does not mean that there is not a need for education in areas that is not purely economically based. I am not sure if a private system is able to provide for those whose interests are more socially based, as opposed to being more economically based.

There is a lot of good work done by people who choose career avenues that benefit society more than themselves, which in itself, benefits the economy.

[~loserman~]

I personally think that the excess of private education is one of the causes of the poor state of the education system and the depressing overall ignorance of a large fraction of americans,

How so?
If anything I would think the exact opposite.
Let me give you an example.
I am putting my 5 children through private school. All 5 of them score on any national exam such as PSAT and or SAT's in the top 5%. The cost of their education in private school is 2/5 the cost per student, where I live, for public education. Classroom sizes are around 18 students per teacher at their school vs 30 per teacher in public.

My tax dollars still go to pay for other kids in the public schools here and my kids are not a drain on the public school system. If anything they help the system by not being in it. Free money from my taxes, no expense from my kids.

[Don't panic]

How so?
If anything I would think the exact opposite.
Let me give you an example.
I am putting my 5 children through private school. All 5 of them score on any national exam such as PSAT and or SAT's in the top 5%. The cost of their education in private school is 2/5 the cost per student, where I live, for public education. Classroom sizes are around 18 students per teacher at their school vs 30 per teacher in public.

My tax dollars still go to pay for other kids in the public schools here and my kids are not a drain on the public school system. If anything they help the system by not being in it. Free money from my taxes, no expense from my kids.
it's not just the money. you care about the education of you kids, and you probably played a role in their been good students (directly and indirectly).
you would have been an asset for your public school and so would have been your kids.
their presence there would have increased the level of the school. You probably would have insisted for a better 'experience' and done what it was in your power to improve the school. the money you spent on tuition could have been used to hire new teachers (through tax-exempt donation to the school/PTA) to reduce class size.

the point being that in the long run a public school would certainly benefit from an influx of 'good' students and involved parents. Viceversa, if all good student don't go top public school because it's not that good, it will get worse.
and your kids would have probably done as good in the sat even if they were in public school

[~loserman~]

it's not just the money. you care about the education of you kids, and you probably played a role in their been good students (directly and indirectly).
you would have been an asset for your public school and so would have been your kids.
their presence there would have increased the level of the school. You probably would have insisted for a better 'experience' and done what it was in your power to improve the school. the money you spent on tuition could have been used to hire new teachers (through tax-exempt donation to the school/PTA) to reduce class size.

the point being that in the long run a public school would certainly benefit from an influx of 'good' students and involved parents. Viceversa, if all good student don't go top public school because it's not that good, it will get worse.
and your kids would have probably done as good in the sat even if they were in public school

OH?
I thought it was "JUST THE MONEY"
That's all we ever here about where I live." There just isn't enough money for education". " Lets raise property taxes for more money for education".
"Lets vote in a State lottery and ear-mark the proceeds for education" "Lets raise the state and local sales taxes for education"
etc, etc, etc..

BLAH BLAH BLAH

The key is parental responsibility. Lets not forget personal responsibility too.
But hey you can't talk about that because that requires work and being involved.
Those two subjects are taboo in this society.
It has to be someone else fault.
It has to be because the system is unfair.
Well the system is unfair. So what get over it.
Schools will not go down because good kids/students don't attend.
Just the schools score averages will.
Besides good students get held back by dumbing down of the curriculum for the students who can't or won't keep up.

And don't tell me about the poor and less fortunate that won't be able to get a quality education.
I have no sympathy for the poor. Why might you ask?, because I grew up poor. Alcoholic good for nothing lazy abusive parents. I've eaten dog food and out of garbage cans for weeks at a time because my dad drank up all the money. Or because my mom would buy food for the 15-20 dogs she had instead of her kids. I've worn the same two pair of clothes to school for a year because it's all I had.
I decided I didn't want to live that way, and as soon as I could get out from under my parents control, I got off my butt and did something about it.
And guess who Is now taken care of those lazy good for nothing parents?

Me

As far as public education goes I could care less.
It is a terribly run inefficient system with poor results. Too concerned with tenure(3 years where I live) than with teaching.
Filled with kids whose parents don't give a damn and don't give a damn themselves.
There is no reason discipline should have ever been removed from schools
No reason for large class sizes since as I mentioned earlier the cost for the private school my kids go to is 2/5 what is spent per child for public education in this state.
Let it rot.
My kids will have a competitive advantage and thats just fine by me.

[zimv20]

that's odd, i made a post here, #26. and now it's gone. mods? did i get a smackdown?

[From Doctor Q: Yes. It was way too likely to send the thread spiraling into flames on the topic you brought up. If you have a less controversial way to make your point within the scope of this topioc, that would be a better idea.]

[~loserman~]

that's odd, i made a post here, #26. and now it's gone. mods? did i get a smackdown?

I doubt it.
We all love ya here zim.

[stubeeef]

loserman, that is an outstanding story!
I had a similar, not quite that extreme start to life.
Your observations are accurate in my book.
My grandfather paid for 2 yrs private school for me, 9th and 10th, then I went to public 11th and 12th. Private was like college compared to 11th and 12th grade.
Yes it is amazing how much public ed costs, and ya wonder what the priority truely is. My wife is an elementary music teacher and has some sway over which teachers our kids get, and although all are paid the same for their level of tenure, they are vastly different.
And don't get me going on taxes! While I don't mind paying for education at all, I hate to see the waste and zero improvement.
Awesome that you are working so hard for your kids, they are VERY lucky.

[Abstract]

loserman, that is an outstanding story!
I had a similar, not quite that extreme start to life.


I agree. I also had a crappy, dead beat dad (my mum is great, though), and we had a lot of hard times as well.

However, I'd like to believe in the system we have (in Canada, anyway :o ) and that it follows through. In many cases, it does. I think there's a problem with some of the teachers, but overall they're not too bad. Whether they're "in the education system" or not, there should still be a strong interview process. Becoming a teacher shouldn't mean you get an automatic job.

I don't think the problem is the public education system, though. I think the problem might be in how school is portrayed to children, and in the way children and younger people are made to think that you never have to grow up......and it's getting worse. Now we have 27 year olds who act like they're 19-20 years old (or retarded), and when they hit 25-27, they think, "Man, I have to settle down now and have kids or something." And wow, those people should definitely not be parents, but they think they "should."

People in harsh conditions grow up because they have to, or they suffer.
Or die.

Or how about when the lifespan was 55-60 (a bit over 100 years ago, maybe) and people had children at age 15 or something. Did those 15 year olds act like complete dumbasses? No, because it was time to move on and face the world. And now the average male moves out of his parents' home at age 28 or something because every voice they hear says that they're still young, and that they should act like morons.

[pseudobrit]

Filled with kids whose parents don't give a damn and don't give a damn themselves.

Part of the problem is that it's hard for parents to give a damn or get involved since they're working so much. This is a systemic problem that has become ingrained in our society and needs to be addressed from a larger cultural and economic viewpoint.

Everything from taxes to minimum wage to healthcare needs to be attacked and "made right" before we can hope to "fix" the problems with public education.

Let it rot.
My kids will have a competitive advantage and thats just fine by me.

A rising tide lifts all boats. Stiff competition breeds better minds.

[broken_keyboard]

Students need to work harder, parents need to be more involved, and teachers need to keep politics out of school. It's not always the politicians fault, sometimes it's the people on the ground...

[katchow]

ok, so math is beng replaced by a tree-huggin liberal agenda, and our country is being taken over by mexicans. just making sure i'm on the same page. thanks, that was very educational :)

[skunk]

ok, so math is beng replaced by a tree-huggin liberal agenda, and our country is being taken over by mexicans. just making sure i'm on the same page. thanks, that was very educational :)Actually, I didn't read it in quite such political terms myself.

[katchow]

Actually, I didn't read it in quite such political terms myself.

that seemed to be the point to me. 70 to 80's emphasis on profits only. 90's emphasis on mamby-pamby environmentalism. 2005 mexicans takin' yer' jobs.

then again maybe i'm just cynical.

[Don't panic]

that seemed to be the point to me. 70 to 80's emphasis on profits only. 90's emphasis on mamby-pamby environmentalism. 2005 mexicans takin' yer' jobs.

then again maybe i'm just cynical.

I think the last two layer were added/modified later on, and actually quite ruin the joke, which is about asking for an increasingly easy answer, ending up with no unswer at all. The anti-environmental commentary turn it political and add too much noise to the punch line (no wrong answers). the 2005 is an obvious add-on, IMO, because is 'out of line' with the joke direction (the question is the same as the 70s), and is intrinsically racist (immigrnats are more ignorant/stupid).

The bad part is that, as Stu said initially, its a sad but true commentary on the state of education in the country.

edit: you can make it completely non-political and it works the same:

Teaching Math In 1950
The Ice-Cream Truck arrives with 100 ice-creams. The kids come running and eat 4/5 of them. How many ice-creams are left?

Teaching Math In 1960
The Ice-Cream Truck arrives with 100 ice-creams. The kids come running and eat 4/5 of them, or 80. How many ice-creams are left?

Teaching Math In 1970
The Ice-Cream Truck arrives with 100 ice-creams. The kids come running and eat 80 of them. Are there any left?

Teaching Math In 1980
The Ice-Cream Truck arrives with 100 ice-creams. The kids come running and eat 80 of them, so 20 are left.
Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

Teaching Math In 1990
The Ice-Cream Truck arrives with 100 ice-creams. The kids come running and eat some of them. Which flavours do you think it had?
Topic for class participation after answering the question: What do you like more, chocolate or vanilla? (There are no wrong answers.)

and of course you can always add an unwarranted political jab at the end:

Teaching Math In 2005
The Ice-Cream Truck arrives with 100 ice-creams. The rich kids get free ice-cream. How many day of suspension should the underprivileged kids get for running?

[~loserman~]

Part of the problem is that it's hard for parents to give a damn or get involved since they're working so much. This is a systemic problem that has become ingrained in our society and needs to be addressed from a larger cultural and economic viewpoint.

Everything from taxes to minimum wage to healthcare needs to be attacked and "made right" before we can hope to "fix" the problems with public education.

A rising tide lifts all boats. Stiff competition breeds better minds.

Same old story. It's somebody else's/societies fault.

The problem is individual apathy.
It's individual responsibility.
I work 60 to 70 hours a week plus 2 hours commuting a day. But since I care about my kids and their future I'm still involved. I still make sure they get the help they need with homework, family time etc. I make all the sporting events, school plays, academic competitions etc, and am there to support them every way I can.
My kids never have to guess if I love them or whether I care more about them than I do watching television or any of my hobbies.
Any less is just laziness and being an apathetic irresponsible parent.
Is my day stretched extremely thin? Sure it is. But thats what parenting is about, Loving your kids and teaching them to do what's right while rearing them to responsible members of society.

I don't give a damn about parents who are too lazy, apathetic, and self centered to "give a damn" about their kids. Parenting is HARD WORK.
To them I say.
Stop blaming society and take responsibility for your children.

[Don't panic]

Same old story. It's somebody else's/societies fault.

The problem is individual apathy.
It's individual responsibility.
I work 60 to 70 hours a week plus 2 hours commuting a day. But since I care about my kids and their future I'm still involved. I still make sure they get the help they need with homework, family time etc. I make all the sporting events, school plays, academic competitions etc, and am there to support them every way I can.
My kids never have to guess if I love them or whether I care more about them than I do watching television or any of my hobbies.
Any less is just laziness and being an apathetic irresponsible parent.
Is my day stretched extremely thin? Sure it is. But thats what parenting is about, Loving your kids and teaching them to do what's right while rearing them to responsible members of society.

I don't give a damn about parents who are too lazy, apathetic, and self centered to "give a damn" about their kids. Parenting is HARD WORK.
To them I say.
Stop blaming society and take responsibility for your children.

i am with you on this, but how does that exclude a decent public education system? It works fairly well in most other countries.
where I live most private schools will cost 15-25000 per child. how on earth could most people afford that (assuming that they even managed to get accepted)?

[~loserman~]

Your changing the debate from
I personally think that the excess of private education is one of the causes of the poor state of the education system and the depressing overall ignorance of a large fraction of americans,

To this.
how does that exclude a decent public education system? It works fairly well in most other countries.
where I live most private schools will cost 15-25000 per child. how on earth could most people afford that (assuming that they even managed to get accepted)?

It isn't my problem whether you can afford to send your kids to private schools or not.
It isn't my problem whether most people can afford to send their kids.
My property tax, state and local sales tax, income tax( both Federal and State) Still goes to support the public education system that I have removed my kids from.

Our original debate was 'again' whether or not private education is one of the causes of poor public education. Whether or not private education is contributing to the overall ignorance of Americans.

Obviously, I find your position untenable.

[Don't panic]

It isn't my problem whether you can afford to send your kids to private schools or not.
It isn't my problem whether most people can afford to send their kids.
My property tax, state and local sales tax, income tax( both Federal and State) Still goes to support the public education system that I have removed my kids from.

Our original debate was 'again' whether or not private education is one of the causes of poor public education. Whether or not private education is contributing to the overall ignorance of Americans.


i am not interested in sending my kids to private schools. I believe in public education and I believe it can be made to work properly (and some are very good). I beleive that education is essential for the success of people as individuals and us as a nation. I believe that the excessive emphasis on private alternatives subtracts resources (human, emotional and financial) that could be redirected to improve public education. It subtracts a good number of those who could help to improve it (like yourself), from the pool of those who will help and it gives to the government (at al levels) the excuse that that you don't need good public schools, because you can always go to private schools. Except, most people cannot afford that, even if they wanted to go there. Many americans are, unfortunately, not very well educated. and the level is getting worse. Private schools give a usually good education to those who go there, but indirectly compound the problem of the public schools, at least in the US.
You obviously did a good job with your kids, but your 'I don't give a damn about everyone else' attitude is not constructive in the long run and certainly won't contribute to reduce the overall ignorance of Americans.

[jelloshotsrule]

Your changing the debate from....

when does the email go around regarding:

you're vs. your
there vs they're vs their


etc? ;)

[zimv20]

[From Doctor Q: Yes. It was way too likely to send the thread spiraling into flames on the topic you brought up. If you have a less controversial way to make your point within the scope of this topioc, that would be a better idea.]
biting satire at its finest, it was.

DQ -- i certainly do appreciate the job you and the other mods do here, and i'll respect your decision wrt my post. my only request is that i be alerted somehow (PM, for example) when that happens, so i'm not left confused. thank you!

[xsedrinam]

when does the email go around regarding:
you're vs. your
there vs they're vs their
etc? ;)
And let's not leave off:
you're vs. your vs. "ya'll" vs."you'ins"
there vs they're vs their vs "thar" vs."all ya'lls"

[Sayhey]

that seemed to be the point to me. 70 to 80's emphasis on profits only. 90's emphasis on mamby-pamby environmentalism. 2005 mexicans takin' yer' jobs.

then again maybe i'm just cynical.

No, I think you're right. After all the "real" problems facing math education are political correctness and immigration, not having textbooks to teach out of or classrooms that aren't falling apart and stuffed full of too many kids. :rolleyes:

[Don't panic]

biting satire at its finest, it was.

DQ -- i certainly do appreciate the job you and the other mods do here, and i'll respect your decision wrt my post. my only request is that i be alerted somehow (PM, for example) when that happens, so i'm not left confused. thank you!

ok, now that you spiked our curiosity, can you start a separate "post#26" thread ? :D

[zimv20]

ok, now that you spiked our curiosity, can you start a separate "post#26" thread ? :D
PM me if you want it.

[~loserman~]

when does the email go around regarding:

you're vs. your
there vs they're vs their


etc? ;)
What do you expect. I was a product of the public school system.

[jelloshotsrule]

What do you expect. I was a product of the public school system.

but if you're not lazy and work really hard, you can achieve everything (including english grammar that we get so angry at immigrants for not knowing)

[latergator116]

What do you expect. I was a product of the public school system.

Hey, it's not that bad.

I know many kids in public school who do just fine. If you're lazy (like me), then you won't get much out of it - that goes for both public and private schools. If you work hard and are self-motivated, then you can be just as smart as any kid in a private school.

[Doctor Q]

I'm pretty good at spelling. But one of the most brilliant men I've known personally (a CEO of a high-tech firm) couldn't spell to save his life. Some people have a knack for learning this stuff and some, even native speakers, have to work much harder at it, to the point where it isn't worth it except where absolutely necessary. So I try never to give people a hard time about spelling or grammar errors, as long as I know what they mean.

[wdlove]

I'm pretty good at spelling. But one of the most brilliant men I've known personally (a CEO of a high-tech firm) couldn't spell to save his life. Some people have a knack for learning this stuff and some, even native speakers, have to work much harder at it, to the point where it isn't worth it except where absolutely necessary. So I try never to give people a hard time about spelling or grammar errors, as long as I know what they mean.

I think that you have the proper attitude Doctor Q. Thank you. ;) Each of us have our talents and minuses. Being tolerant is a very nice trait in my opinion.

[stubeeef]

skunk, try and back me up on this-

I cnat spall kat.

If a gun was placed at my head and I had to spell a word to live, I would just start reciting psalm 23.

I am jealous of those that have good spelling and perfect grammar. Those around me must either have tolerance or leave.

[LethalWolfe]

but if you're not lazy and work really hard, you can achieve everything (including english grammar that we get so angry at immigrants for not knowing)

Not knowing due to deciding not to learn and not knowing because English has to be b*tch to learn are two separate things.

I have a hard time w/languages so I'm not gonna give someone a hard time for speaking broken English. Although if one is in a job where one interacts with native speakers all day a mandatory requirement for that job should be a sufficient mastery of the language and a clear speaking voice, IMO.

Unless someone's spelling and/or grammar is so bad it makes understanding what they are saying difficult I don't seen any need to be a "grammar Nazi."

Lethal

[Xtremehkr]

Look people. The easiest way to defeat bad spellerage is to turn on your Safari spellchecker. Use it! I do, and you paid for it.

It works, spellerage has a nifty dotted redline underneath it.

Spelling bugs me, Safari is all good. I've actually become a better speller because of it, every time it underlines a word I pay attention to how it should be spelt so that I don't have to correct that word again.

I made up a word, sew me.

[zimv20]

I made up a word, sew me.
that was intentional, right?

[LethalWolfe]

Look people. The easiest way to defeat bad spellerage is to turn on your Safari spellchecker. Use it! I do, and you paid for it.

It works, spellerage has a nifty dotted redline underneath it.

Spelling bugs me, Safari is all good. I've actually become a better speller because of it, every time it underlines a word I pay attention to how it should be spelt so that I don't have to correct that word again.

I made up a word, sew me.

But it doesn't catch the "your/you're" errors nor grammatical errors. And I've actually become a *worse* speller 'cause I've grown to rely on the computer pointing out my errors and I just go back and fix them all at once after I've made my post.


Lethal