No gay priests?

[solvs]

Vatican document reaffirms policy on gays:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9436430/

I can understand not allowing pedophiles, but this is just silly. Especially if they remain celibate, because they haven't broken any "rules". Besides, isn't this what gay catholics have to do, because they feel guilty about being who they are? Just to point out, not all religions are this bad. Some of us actually follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. :rolleyes:

[Daveway]

This is obviously turning out to be the "gay" decade.

[Blue Velvet]

This is obviously turning out to be the "gay" decade.

Possibly because it intimately touches on so many issues from human rights to genetics through to religion — forcing people to reappraise their attitudes towards their family members, friends and colleagues and so outwards to the very institutions of state.

[skunk]

How can you tell if a celibate priest is homosexual? Why would you care?

[pseudobrit]

How can you tell if a celibate priest is homosexual?

There's a really filthy punchline to that question.

[skunk]

There's a really filthy punchline to that question.I was relying on you to provide it.

[pseudobrit]

I was relying on you to provide it.

Father, is that an aspergillum in your vestments, or are you just happy to see me?

[skunk]

Thy Rod and thy Staff shall comfort me.

[xsedrinam]

Have mercy; just don't go on to the "green pastures" part.

[Guitarius]

Well then who are they going to get to be priests?

[leekohler]

This is obviously turning out to be the "gay" decade.

Or the "let's beat the s*** out of gays" decade.

[Thomas Veil]

If this exacerbates the existing dearth of men wanting to join the priesthood, and disgusts gay laity so much that they turn their backs on their faith, well...it'll be exactly what the Catholic Church deserves.

And that's coming from a Catholic.

They don't wanna let priests marry, and they don't want gays either.

Duh. :mad:

[Heb1228]

If this exacerbates the existing dearth of men wanting to join the priesthood, and disgusts gay laity so much that they turn their backs on their faith, well...it'll be exactly what the Catholic Church deserves.

And that's coming from a Catholic.

They don't wanna let priests marry, and they don't want gays either.

Duh. :mad:
As a protestant, I somewhat agree with you. I think they should allow priests to marry. But I know thats up to the Vatican. If you're a Catholic, what the Pope says goes. That's how it works. If you don't like it, don't be a Catholic. The Catholic Church is not a democracy.

But it shouldn't be any surprise that openly gay men aren't allowed to be priests. The official teaching of the Catholic Church is that homosexuality is a sin. You can't willing disobey the teaching of the Church. I'm not Catholic and it doesn't seem that difficult to understand.

[w_parietti22]

How can you tell if a celibate priest is homosexual? Why would you care?

My religion class was talking about this today and my teacher said that the current gay priest are allowed to stay priest, but gays who want to become a priest will no longer be allowed to become a priest. Before becoming a priest, they interview them, and it is a sin, or against God to lie, and in this interview you have to say if your gay. Does that make sence???

[Heb1228]

My religion class was talking about this today and my teacher said that the current gay priest are allowed to stay priest, but gays who want to become a priest will no longer be allowed to become a priest. Before becoming a priest, they interview them, and it is a sin, or against God to lie, and in this interview you have to say if your gay. Does that make sence???
Yes, it does make sense. See my post above yours. I do admit it is a bit of a double-standard to allow current gay priests to stay, but you can't blame them for starting to follow the teachings of their church.

[miloblithe]

The official teaching of the Catholic Church is that homosexuality is a sin. You can't willing disobey the teaching of the Church. I'm not Catholic and it doesn't seem that difficult to understand.

I thought that Catholics believe that homosexual acts are a sin, not being a homosexual (which they don't believe is truly possible anyway). Accordingly, if a priest is celibate, he's not a homosexual. What's the problem?

I think that this policy has no moral basis in Catholic ideas, and is just a practical move based on the misguided and prejudiced belief that all pedophiles are homosexuals (and vice versa).

[iGary]

Who cares, it is their church, let them do what they want.

If you don't like your religion, you are free to switch, or worship on your own.

[miloblithe]

If you don't like your religion, you are free to switch, or worship on your own.

Sort of. It can be pretty difficult if everyone else in your family/town/country is a member. These things seem to have a strong ability to perpetuate themselves well beyond their seeming draw.

[takao]

I thought that Catholics believe that homosexual acts are a sin, not being a homosexual (which they don't believe is truly possible anyway). Accordingly, if a priest is celibate, he's not a homosexual. What's the problem?

AFAIK it's correct

I think that this policy has no moral basis in Catholic ideas, and is just a practical move based on the misguided and prejudiced belief that all pedophiles are homosexuals (and vice versa).

it hasn't catched the news over here where most people are catholic, so you can imagine for which country this was made especially ;)

[iSaint]

As a protestant, I somewhat agree with you. I think they should allow priests to marry. But I know thats up to the Vatican. If you're a Catholic, what the Pope says goes. That's how it works. If you don't like it, don't be a Catholic. The Catholic Church is not a democracy.

But it shouldn't be any surprise that openly gay men aren't allowed to be priests. The official teaching of the Catholic Church is that homosexuality is a sin. You can't willing disobey the teaching of the Church. I'm not Catholic and it doesn't seem that difficult to understand.

This is where us protestants come in. Pope's were so corrupt back in the day that reasonable people began to realized the inconsistencies in behavior/judgement. Judgement being the key word here. There are many denominations within the Christian Church with gay priests/pastors/ministers, whether the churches know it or not.

What upsets me is that all these years there have been wonderful men and women with a strong sense of call to go to respective seminaries to become leaders in their churches. Now, all of the sudden, we have to ask them every minute detail on their lives so some people don't live in fear of them. This forces people to either lie, or not serve the church in the capacity to which they feel called.

People sure do have a lot of gall to presume their ability to judge.

[pseudobrit]

What upsets me is that all these years there have been wonderful men and women with a strong sense of call to go to respective seminaries to become leaders in their churches. Now, all of the sudden, we have to ask them every minute detail on their lives so some people don't live in fear of them. This forces people to either lie, or not serve the church in the capacity to which they feel called.

People sure do have a lot of gall to presume their ability to judge.

If I ever got the call to Holy Orders I'd refuse to answer a pointed question about my sexuality. And I'm just straight as can be. It is a factor that is beyond insignificant in light of the path on which one would be about to embark.

[jelloshotsrule]

I thought that Catholics believe that homosexual acts are a sin, not being a homosexual (which they don't believe is truly possible anyway). Accordingly, if a priest is celibate, he's not a homosexual. What's the problem?

I think that this policy has no moral basis in Catholic ideas, and is just a practical move based on the misguided and prejudiced belief that all pedophiles are homosexuals (and vice versa).

totally agreed. and catholic.

this is just stupid..

[Thomas Veil]

To my discredit, I notice I neglected to mention the other issue the Church has a problem with: women.

So. No women priests. No married priests. No gays.

Yeah, there's a recipe for success.

With regards to what others said above, believe me, the more of this stuff they pull, the more they're pushing me away.

[jelloshotsrule]

agreed thomas

and they wonder why they have a problem recruiting priests.

i know at least one priest who is pushing for married priests... of course he's also one that sends around email forwards of dirty jokes, so who knows. hah

[atszyman]

To my discredit, I notice I neglected to mention the other issue the Church has a problem with: women.

So. No women priests. No married priests. No gays.

Yeah, there's a recipe for success.

With regards to what others said above, believe me, the more of this stuff they pull, the more they're pushing me away.

A few years ago I was at mass and the priest told a story during the homily (sermon) that went along these lines :

A large storm was headed into town and the police stopped by to try to evacuate a person's house. The person told the police, "Don't worry about me, God will take care of me, go help others."

As the city began to flood and this person moved to the second floor of his house, the fire department came by via a small boat. Once again the person replied, "Don't worry about me, God will take care of me, go help others."

The flood waters continued to rise and while he was on his roof the coast guard came by in a helicopter. Once again the reply was, "Don't worry about me, God will take care of me, go help others."

The waters further rose and the person drowned. Once in heaven the person asked God, "Why didn't you save me?"

God replied, "Who do you think sent the Police, Fire Department, and Coast Guard?"

Now every time I go to mass (which isn't all that often) they end mass with the prayer for vocation, and every time I sit there and think, God gave us the answers (women, allowing priests to marry, now homosexuals), why don't we use them?

[mactastic]

With apologies to the Catholics around here: Good. Anything that hastens the decline of Catholicism is to be applauded in my book. If you won't join the modern world, then you are consigned to the dustbin of history.

There is already a severe shortfall in the ranks of priests in the US. Once you disallow women and homosexuals (and pedophiles) and forbid priests from marrying, you greatly shrink the pool of interested people. Average priest age is rising...

[Lyle]

Now every time I go to mass (which isn't all that often) they end mass with the prayer for vocation, and every time I sit there and think, God gave us the answers (women, allowing priests to marry, now homosexuals), why don't we use them?You know what else they could do, is to open up the priesthood to non-Catholics, yet another untapped source.

[atszyman]

You know what else they could do, is to open up the priesthood to non-Catholics, yet another untapped source.

As far as I know that option is already open. If you want to convert from any religion and become a Catholic priest I don't think there are any rules that stop you, unless your gay, or female. If I remember correctly I think there are even some Protestant religions where if a married priest converts they are allowed to stay married.

[Lyle]

As far as I know that option is already open. If you want to convert from any religion and become a Catholic priest I don't think there are any rules that stop you, unless your gay, or female. If I remember correctly I think there are even some Protestant religions where if a married priest converts they are allowed to stay married.Why should someone have to "convert" to Catholicism just to become a priest? It seems to me that it's just one more way to discriminate against groups of people who might otherwise be interested in the job.

[miloblithe]

Now every time I go to mass (which isn't all that often) they end mass with the prayer for vocation, and every time I sit there and think, God gave us the answers (women, allowing priests to marry, now homosexuals), why don't we use them?

Well said.

[miloblithe]

Why should someone have to "convert" to Catholicism just to become a priest? It seems to me that it's just one more way to discriminate against groups of people who might otherwise be interested in the job.

yes yes. Your joke is very amusing.

[skunk]

If I remember correctly I think there are even some Protestant religions where if a married priest converts they are allowed to stay married.The Church of England, for one.

[takao]

With apologies to the Catholics around here: Good. Anything that hastens the decline of Catholicism is to be applauded in my book. If you won't join the modern world, then you are consigned to the dustbin of history.

the thing is: those people don't go over to the protestants either ;) .. at least not over here where those numbers are even worse

There is already a severe shortfall in the ranks of priests in the US. Once you disallow women and homosexuals (and pedophiles) and forbid priests from marrying, you greatly shrink the pool of interested people. Average priest age is rising...

over here the problem isn't the amount of priests but rather church attendance levels... simply too little are showing interests overall compared to the US ... all the churches are desperately trying to hold the fanatics because they already lost the normal people.. at least over here

will i go less to church because of this decision ? hardly... 1 perhaps 2 times a year)
would i go more often if they would allow priests to marry/female priests/gay priests ? nope, despite being personally for it

i guess the only thing which could draw me into church on a sunday morning would be perhaps free-anti hang over drinks/lemonades or a free snack bar and of course reducing the time ( 3/4 to 1 1/4 hours is too long) and of course make it more fun (a small hint: this means _less_ singing not _more_, small jokes here and there etc.)

[katchow]

If I remember correctly I think there are even some Protestant religions where if a married priest converts they are allowed to stay married.

and they can use french ticklers...if they so choose.
:p

[atszyman]

Why should someone have to "convert" to Catholicism just to become a priest? It seems to me that it's just one more way to discriminate against groups of people who might otherwise be interested in the job.

You don't have to convert to Catholicism to become a priest, however if you wish to become a Catholic priest it is sort of a job requirement. You can't be a Yankees pitcher when you are on the Red Sox roster until you get traded to the Yanks.

I'm not saying that their current rules are wrong, but it seems kind of pointless to sit and pray for a solution when three of them are sitting right in front of you.

[iSaint]

It is a factor that is beyond insignificant in light of the path on which one would be about to embark.

exactly!!

[solvs]

Who cares, it is their church, let them do what they want.
Didn't say they couldn't, just don't agree with their hypocrisy. ;)

[leekohler]

With apologies to the Catholics around here: Good. Anything that hastens the decline of Catholicism is to be applauded in my book. If you won't join the modern world, then you are consigned to the dustbin of history.

There is already a severe shortfall in the ranks of priests in the US. Once you disallow women and homosexuals (and pedophiles) and forbid priests from marrying, you greatly shrink the pool of interested people. Average priest age is rising...

I agree. No offense, but they can do what they want and therefore go the way of the dinosaur for all I care.

[greatdevourer]

I think that this policy has no moral basis in Catholic ideas, and is just a practical move based on the misguided and prejudiced belief that all pedophiles are homosexuals (and vice versa). I think that you've never read the Bible, or at least Genisis. Here is an ambiguous part that can be interpreted differently. It says (vaguely from memory) "marrage shall happen between a man and a woman, and they shall become one flesh". One way (the orthadox way) is that it may only be between a man and a woman. The other way (the more liberal way) is that, quite simply, homosexuality didn't present itself at the time of writing (not that they didn't exist, they just weren't recognised), or they couldn't be bothered to put "or man and man or woman and woman", and therefore it just means 2 people who love each other.

[Blue Velvet]

The Church of England, for one.


The Bishop of Hereford has defended the decision to ordain a transsexual woman as a priest.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/4277176.stm

Of course, the evangelicals are getting their knickers in a twist about it.

[skunk]

I think that you've never read the Bible, or at least Genisis. Here is an ambiguous part that can be interpreted differently. It says (vaguely from memory) "marrage shall happen between a man and a woman, and they shall become one flesh". One way (the orthadox way) is that it may only be between a man and a woman. The other way (the more liberal way) is that, quite simply, homosexuality didn't present itself at the time of writing (not that they didn't exist, they just weren't recognised), or they couldn't be bothered to put "or man and man or woman and woman", and therefore it just means 2 people who love each other.Well, thanks for clarifying that.

[iSaint]

Of course, the evangelicals are getting their knickers in a twist about it.

Tell me something they don't get their panties twisted about. I mean, knickers...panties, whatever.

[miloblithe]

I think that you've never read the Bible, or at least Genisis. Here is an ambiguous part that can be interpreted differently. It says (vaguely from memory) "marrage shall happen between a man and a woman, and they shall become one flesh". One way (the orthadox way) is that it may only be between a man and a woman. The other way (the more liberal way) is that, quite simply, homosexuality didn't present itself at the time of writing (not that they didn't exist, they just weren't recognised), or they couldn't be bothered to put "or man and man or woman and woman", and therefore it just means 2 people who love each other.

We're talking about who can become a priest, not who can marry.

And you'd be wrong about my not reading Genesis, or other parts of the bible.