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RobHague
Sep 23, 2005, 10:49 AM
In June 2006? Apple will be releasing the first of the intel-based macs true?

It wont be a complete transition, I mean it wont be June 2006 and we have Intel Mac mini's, ibooks, powerbooks and powermacs and imacs.... they said by 2007 the transition would be 'complete'.

So that means that Apple will be selling whatever Intel products it came up with for June, along side the PowerPC stuff they have now... How is that going to work out for them?... I am going to assume we wont see an iMac or PowerMac with an Intel-Inside come 2006 so wont they be in kind of a..

"Introducing our New Intel Mac! YAY!... But the PowerPC's over there are cool too. But we are dumping PPC for Intel Macs eventually..Yay?"

What will happen to their 'benchmarks' showing the G4/5 vs the Pentium? Wont that be giving mixed signals to customers?

"Wait they are saying the G5 is better than Intels Penitum 4 over here, but over here this new Intel Mac is better than both of them because its in a mac? Eh."

One more thing incidentally. OSX x86 for the Intel-based Macs can run PPC software aparentley as a very reasonable speed (Rosetta). Good stuff then. But i was told it cant emulate Altvec? What of 'games' ? Will current games out there work on the Intel-macs running OSX-86?? If not wont that leave the 'new' macs without many (if any?) support for the entertainment software thats out on Mac meaning that you upgrade you can't use any of your games software.. or you buy a Mac now and you can't run any of the current Mac games.

Thoughts? No one really explained these things, maybe i just wasent awake when they did but id like to know if someone has the answers..:confused: :)

wdlove
Sep 23, 2005, 11:02 AM
Yes, Steve said in a news conference on Tuesday that Apple was on track to ship the first Intel Mac June 2006. No word yet as to which one or one's. The transition is due to be complete in 2007.

They will still be selling the PPC models. There will be support for the PPC by Apple for another 3 - 5 years after the transition.

RobHague
Sep 23, 2005, 11:38 AM
Yes, Steve said in a news conference on Tuesday that Apple was on track to ship the first Intel Mac June 2006. No word yet as to which one or one's. The transition is due to be complete in 2007.

They will still be selling the PPC models. There will be support for the PPC by Apple for another 3 - 5 years after the transition.

Yeah, no i know about the PPC support but im saying there is going to be a time when they are selling Intel and PPC macs side-by-side on their site...

With the Intel-Macs being at a disadvantage if they run PPC software in emulaton (bugs? speed problems? incompatibilities?) and they cant emulate Altvec, games software will that work? If not thats a major drawback since the Mac already hs so few good entertainment titles out there. Maybe Apple are hoping that the people that will buy the first Intel macs wont be looking to be 'entertained' with them - but then wont those sorts of people go with a PPC to get native/better software support and be less bothered about the 'newest' thing... :confused:

How are Apple going to promote the Intel Macs they are selling without putting down the G4/G5's? If they have no products for those area's at first then that would be suicide. If they dont talk up the Intel Macs over the G4/G5 at first then how are they going to get it to be adopted?? During the 'transition' period they will still be selling and promoting PPC systems - and developers will have a choice... spend their time to optimize for 98% of the users (PPC) or support the new intels and optimize for that too (but for a lower target audience). Which id imagine would cost them more time and so more money? Will that turn off potential mac software titles? Having to support OSX PPC and OSX x86 to keep everyone happy.

stevep
Sep 23, 2005, 12:56 PM
They'll probably market them side-by-side by simply not mentioning the processor explicitly, therefore side-stepping the potential to compare.
Also the different mac models have different target markets. So take the current G5 Power Mac for instance. If this is the first model to be 'intellified' (quite possible as it is already available to developers) then what is currently the Power Mac G5 range will become the Power Mac G6 (or I6, or any name, doesn't matter), and that will be the models aimed at the Graphics/Audio/Video pros. There won't be a G5 to compare to, and none of the other models in the Mac range, whatever processor they have, will be comparable.
Its easy to get hung up about this switch, but in practice it doesn't really matter what processor is in the box, just as long as it does the job. Does anyone bother (or even really know) what processor is in their iPod? Or their Treo? Or their washing machine?

Lord Blackadder
Sep 23, 2005, 01:15 PM
Yeah, no i know about the PPC support but im saying there is going to be a time when they are selling Intel and PPC macs side-by-side on their site...

Yes, there will. The Power Mac has been hinted as being one of the last to make the transition (but this is just rumor). But for sure there will be period where some Macs are Pentium and others are PPC.

With the Intel-Macs being at a disadvantage if they run PPC software in emulaton (bugs? speed problems? incompatibilities?) and they cant emulate Altvec, games software will that work? If not thats a major drawback since the Mac already hs so few good entertainment titles out there. Maybe Apple are hoping that the people that will buy the first Intel macs wont be looking to be 'entertained' with them - but then wont those sorts of people go with a PPC to get native/better software support and be less bothered about the 'newest' thing... :confused:

It's impossible to say how well the transition will go, but it depends on what order the Mac line is switched. Many applications will probably be released in PPC/Intel combined versions. Because Apple has total control over hardware architecture and the OS, the emulator they develop will probaboy be very good, so I'm not too worried there.

How are Apple going to promote the Intel Macs they are selling without putting down the G4/G5's? If they have no products for those area's at first then that would be suicide. If they dont talk up the Intel Macs over the G4/G5 at first then how are they going to get it to be adopted?? During the 'transition' period they will still be selling and promoting PPC systems - and developers will have a choice... spend their time to optimize for 98% of the users (PPC) or support the new intels and optimize for that too (but for a lower target audience). Which id imagine would cost them more time and so more money? Will that turn off potential mac software titles? Having to support OSX PPC and OSX x86 to keep everyone happy.

I don't think this will be a big problem. Apple hopes to make the hardware less noticable, and focus on OS X. Bothe CPUs offer good performance and Apple claims it is working hard to make it easy for developers to compile both PPC and x86 versions of their software with as little effort as possible. If they are successful, both platforms will be fully supported and upt to date until well after the transition is complete.

Project
Sep 23, 2005, 02:31 PM
Im 99% certain that authorised resellers will make a big deal about the new Macs having "Intel Inside.." . It will be a big sell IMO. The megahertz myth will no longer apply and you will have these beautiful machines that finally appear to be as fast as Windows based machines (i mean solely on the fact that ppl judge by G/Mhz). I mean, I spent a good few hours trying to persuade a good friend of mine to switch with me, and almost had her, she fell in love with the iBook but when her father went to stump the cash, he said why are you getting this when you can get this HP one thats miles quicker? I tried to explain, but its like telling somebody that a car with 130mph on the speed clock is faster than one with 160mph.

As for the changeover, my bet is that the Intel models of the entire Mac lineup will be a FAR quicker transition than the current projection of the end of 2007. It would be insane for them to be trying to sell PPC Macs at any point past Q2 in 2007. Can you imagine? There will probably be a time when Ghz for Ghz, an iMac will be "faster" than a PowerMac, or a Mini faster than a PowerBook if they decide to update the consumer lines first. Apple cant afford to have PPC PBs or PMs sitting on the shelf too long.

I think the whole end of 2007 transition will be for software only. The hardware change will happen over a year at the absolute maximum. By giving themselves an 18 month window, it allows them to easily beat that and look as if theyve done it super fast. If they were to say it would only take 9-12months and it went longer, it would be bad PR. So in that respect, I honestly see them changing over in a year. I mean, the products receive what? 2 updates a year anyway?

We also need to take Leopard into consideration.

All I know is that 2006 will be the most important year in Apples entire history. Its make or break. They have to make the transition incredibly smooth. And Leopard has to be quite simply amazing, otherwise people will be too wowed by the eye candy in Vista to care about a ripple effect in OSX.

I hope they pull it off, I really do.

MacsRgr8
Sep 23, 2005, 02:52 PM
NeXT year will be a strange year.....

In about 12 months time, we'l probably be looking at MacTel minis, MacTel iBooks, (MacTel PowerBooks?), but PowerMac (PPC) and Xserves (PPC).
Question is which software will you be using?
Will the Pro-apps already be "universal binaries" before the successor of the G5 (with its AltiVec unit) hits the shelves? Does universal also mean that the AltiVec will be used for PPC and SSE2/3 for x86? Ofcourse the iLife ('06) apps will be universal, as will be hopefully many-an-app over at Versiontracker.com.
What will happen to games? Universal binaries, hopefully. Or will the "ported" games only be x86 code? Is that cheaper or easier? No idea.
What about peripherals and drivers i.e. grfx cards, sound cards etc.? Will everything be universal as we all hope?

We're in for some exciting times :)
Many discussions will follow..... ;)

DJY
Sep 23, 2005, 06:02 PM
I also won't be surprise if (or when) the transition is started and finished earlier than expected.

I thought Steve said last June that by June 2006 there would be MacIntel (I hate that term though) machines in the market...
early 2006 will be the announcement... delivery virtually straight away.

They will need to space out some if not all product launches though I suspect in order to generate interest and sales.
I can't wait!

stevep
Sep 24, 2005, 12:56 PM
I wonder how software suppliers are goingto be affected?
At the moment I run Adobe CS -the first version. I won't go to v2 because I might as well wait for an Intel-based Mac to appear, and then get the software that suits it. How many others are holding off for software reasons as well as hardware reasons?
I therefore agree with DJY:I also won't be surprise if (or when) the transition is started and finished earlier than expected.

Mord
Sep 24, 2005, 01:21 PM
G4 --> pentium M 2006
G5 --> pentium 5/xeon version 2007

maddav
Sep 24, 2005, 01:41 PM
I'm hoping that the 'MacIntel' Powerbooks will be out around Sept '06, as that's when I'm planning to buy a powerbook for university :D

As for Leopard, is there any news/rumour/speculation as to when it's going to be announced/released (I don't expect there to be, but you never know!!)

SummerBreeze
Sep 24, 2005, 02:59 PM
As for Leopard, is there any news/rumour/speculation as to when it's going to be announced/released (I don't expect there to be, but you never know!!)

Steve Jobs has said "We intend to release Leopard at the end of 2006 or early 2007, right around the time Microsoft expects to release Longhorn."

I'm definitely excited for that, hopefully it will help people to realize that OSX is a much better option than Vista.

Superdrive
Sep 24, 2005, 03:01 PM
All I know is that I have a nice pile of cash waiting for the Intel PowerBook. I just hope they can use a more livable case instead of old pop cans. Give me iBook durability, PowerBook style, and Intel power. Will pay nicely.

Blue Velvet
Sep 24, 2005, 03:12 PM
Its easy to get hung up about this switch, but in practice it doesn't really matter what processor is in the box, just as long as it does the job. Does anyone bother (or even really know) what processor is in their iPod? Or their Treo? Or their washing machine?

Poor analogy. Myself, the organisation I work for and all those millions of firms with Macs in pre-press and other media around the world don't have thousands of pounds invested in software that can run on a washing machine...

carpe diem
Sep 24, 2005, 03:53 PM
I hope there r new intel powerbooks soon.
Sorry if this is pointless.

SiliconAddict
Sep 24, 2005, 04:02 PM
Im 99% certain that authorised resellers will make a big deal about the new Macs having "Intel Inside.." . It will be a big sell IMO. The megahertz myth will no longer apply and you will have these beautiful machines that finally appear to be as fast as Windows based machines (i mean solely on the fact that ppl judge by G/Mhz). I mean, I spent a good few hours trying to persuade a good friend of mine to switch with me, and almost had her, she fell in love with the iBook but when her father went to stump the cash, he said why are you getting this when you can get this HP one thats miles quicker? I tried to explain, but its like telling somebody that a car with 130mph on the speed clock is faster than one with 160mph.

To be fair....G4 iBook vs. a Pentium M HP laptop IS Astronomical Units quicker.

SiliconAddict
Sep 24, 2005, 04:11 PM
Apple is in one heck of a bind with this transition. 2006 will be a very difficult year for them market wise. On one hand I'm sure that Apple doesn't want to advertise that there is Intel inside. They would prefer to think that you have a PowerMac, iMac, Mac Mini, PowerBook, and iBook and what is inside doesn't matter. Long run this may be the case but initially when a person picks up an Intel x86 system and loads a PPC program they are going to be wondering why it's so slow. (I don't care what anyone says emulation is GOING to be slow on a x86 system. There is no way around that.)
This is probably the reason why Apple will be releasing Mac Minis and iBooks first. But even releasing just consumer models (Which inherently many user will just use these devices for the basics.) Apple needs to figure out a way of saying WHY these apps run so slow on X device. How do you do that without erking off a potential customer?
Quite honestly the challenge for Apple isn't the technology. Its how to market these device in year one. Until there is a mass upswell of x86 compatible programs "Huston we have a marketing problem."

SiliconAddict
Sep 24, 2005, 04:13 PM
All I know is that I have a nice pile of cash waiting for the Intel PowerBook. I just hope they can use a more livable case instead of old pop cans. Give me iBook durability, PowerBook style, and Intel power. Will pay nicely.


Ditto. I have enough saved up to buy a new 17" Dual core Pentium M PowerBook outright. funny thing about waiting and hoping for a revision over the last two years. It gives you plenty of time to save up a lot o' bling bling.

maddav
Sep 24, 2005, 04:18 PM
I'm just saving for a 12" Macintel Powerbook, Maxed out RAM, maxed out HD, so It's ultra portable and will last me a good while without having to fiddle around with it :D

solvs
Sep 24, 2005, 05:00 PM
The G4 is a pretty good chip. It's just been woefully underdeveloped. So to replace it with the Pentium M is a no brainer, as that's actually a pretty good chip, based somewhat on the P3. The P4 is fast and all, but it's got a lot of design flaws. The G5 is great, but it's hot and IBM doesn't really want to develop it as much as we hoped. They say they have faster procs and lower power version, but for whatever reason, we don't have them. Between the heat issues and the shipping delays, it's just not worth it anymore. Steve focused on low wattage and heat, and the G4 is languishing, so I think the notebooks are first. The G5 is still an ok chip, so as long as they can get a little more performance without too much heat, they can wait for the next desktop Pentium. And since people still have PPCs, it's not like Apple is going to just suddenly stop supporting them. Software companies either, because so few people would have them yet. Especially if universal binaries work as well as they say they do.

And besides, most people don't know what the difference is, so they'll still buy Macs because they're sick of Windows or whatever.

stevep
Sep 25, 2005, 03:46 AM
Poor analogy. Myself, the organisation I work for and all those millions of firms with Macs in pre-press and other media around the world don't have thousands of pounds invested in software that can run on a washing machine...
Yes, a rubbish analogy (like most analogies in fact!). But I really do think that its the OS thats important and not the hardware.
When the new Intel based macs are shipped most of us will probably wait a little while before leaping in - in fact Maya, I seem to remember a post ages ago in which you said that you and your company always think very carefully before an upgrade because so muchis at stake.
I'm sure that the Intel Macs will have a few teething probs, but I can't imagine Apple releasing anything thats a real dog.
And I'll try to avoid analogies in future.........

ammon
Sep 25, 2005, 08:29 AM
If they release the Intel Mac Mini first, it will be interesting to see it compared to an iMac G5. I am sure there are some applications that are faster on the P4 than the G5.

Can you imagine a $500 computer that can out-perform a $1500 computer?

Should be very interesting...