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MacRumors
Dec 21, 2012, 12:24 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/12/21/nest-thermostat-now-available-in-apple-retail-stores/)


Apple is now carrying the Nest Thermostat (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/25/ipod-creator-tony-fadells-next-quest-is-to-revolutionize-thermostats/) in its retail stores through the United States and Canada. The development comes as Apple has been carrying it online (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/30/nest-thermostat-added-to-apple-online-store/) for several months.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/12/nest.jpg
The Nest thermostat is priced at $249.95 (http://store.apple.com/us/product/HA895LL/A/nest-learning-thermostat-2nd-generation?fnode=6f) in the U.S. online store and is just one of a number of products featured in Apple's App-Enabled Accessories (http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_ipod/ipod_accessories/app_enabled) section. The thermostat can be controlled via a free universal iOS app (http://appshopper.com/utilities/nest-mobile) [App Store (http://itunes.apple.com/app/nest-mobile/id464988855?mt=8)], with access to controls also available through web browsers.
The Nest Learning Thermostat helps you stop wasting energy, while providing control using your iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, or Mac. Consider that your thermostat controls about half your energy bill--more than TV, appliances, and lighting combined. But it's wasting energy every time it turns on the heating or cooling system in an empty house. The Nest Learning Thermostat solves this problem by programming itself, turning itself down when you're away, and keeping track of your energy use.Apple features a number of such app-enabled products in its stores, including the iGrill cooking thermometer (http://store.apple.com/us/product/H6252VC/A/igrill-grilling-cooking-thermometer) and Withings blood pressure monitor (http://store.apple.com/us/product/H6012ZM/A/withingssmartbloodpressuremonitor) and body scale (http://store.apple.com/us/product/H4867VC/A/wifi-body-scale-by-withings).

Article Link: Nest Thermostat Now Available in Apple Retail Stores (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/12/21/nest-thermostat-now-available-in-apple-retail-stores/)



alm99
Dec 21, 2012, 12:26 PM
Do want, but cannot justify the price.

GoCubsGo
Dec 21, 2012, 12:30 PM
Do want, but cannot justify the price.

I am hearing that it is well worth the price because it pays for itself over time. When I moved into my house I bought two run of the mill thermostats for a combined total of $125. (I have two separate units) I bought something that could be programmed but it is as basic as I could get and still have programming. The damn things don't even have lights, which as I found out are quite handy.

I don't know how quickly they pay for themselves but I think the ROI happens within the first year. For something that should last for a very long time, I am not sure the price is all that high. The initial cost is a bit of a "sticker shock" I am sure.

winston1236
Dec 21, 2012, 12:31 PM
Do want, but cannot justify the price.

Way too much when the competition is 1/5 the price.

rmwebs
Dec 21, 2012, 12:33 PM
Meh. Has no real place in an Apple store as far as I can see. I'd expect to see it in my local DIY/Home Improvement shop however.

GoCubsGo
Dec 21, 2012, 12:36 PM
Way too much when the competition is 1/5 the price.
What else is out there? Serious question.

Meh. Has no real place in an Apple store as far as I can see. I'd expect to see it in my local DIY/Home Improvement shop however.
They sell it online, why not in-store? Especially if they want to reach a wider user base? People don't automatically know to go to the Apple online store and search for thermostats.

burnside
Dec 21, 2012, 12:39 PM
The Nest Learning Thermostat solves this problem by programming itself, turning itself down when you're away, and keeping track of your energy use.

How is this that much different than any other programmable thermostat that either comes with your house already or can be easily bought for less than $50? Set your thermostat once and you're pretty much done. The only time I need to go to my thermostat is when I want it a little warmer/cooler than the present temperature and I don't need an app to do that.

SatManager
Dec 21, 2012, 12:41 PM
Lowes does carry them. I have had mine for about an year now. I have version one which is a bit thicker than the new version two unit. Both are running the same version of software as they are updated.

What is really nice is that it has a ten day rolling report of your energy usage, letting you know when you use energy. I have found it has saved money and has probably paid for itself by now.

Shrink
Dec 21, 2012, 12:42 PM
I have a programmable thermostat which can be programmed for 4 different settings each day. I don't remember exactly what I paid for it, but I know it was less than $100 including installation by an HVAC professional...so if I could do it myself, it would have been less.

Serious question...what is the advantage of the NEST (aside from looking extremely cool :D) over my thermostat?

ctdonath
Dec 21, 2012, 12:50 PM
I've got the general gist of self-adjusting for optimal energy use, but am at a loss to see how it gathers this data - especially when much of the occupant's activity is out of sight of the device (assuming it monitors infrared activity a la motion detectors), and temperature dynamics vary considerably across each floor of the house.

Simple programmability alone could convince me though. Going thru all the S/MTWTF/S morning/day/evening/night combinations for two old programmable devices is irritating; right now they're set for 72 for day & 68 for night because it's obnoxious to do it right.

SatManager
Dec 21, 2012, 12:51 PM
Serious question...what is the advantage of the NEST (aside from looking extremely cool :D) over my thermostat?

The neat has a sensor that can tell that you are not at home and will not run the heat or AC until you return ( of which it senses that you are back). It learns your schedule over time and makes up a new schedule. It adjusts to you, if it sees you are in and out frequently it adjusts how long it takes to go into Auto-Away mode. You can turn off any of the behaviors and set manual limits as needed.

A monthly report is emailed to you letting you know how much energy is used and compares it with the previous month.

RMo
Dec 21, 2012, 12:51 PM
How is this that much different than any other programmable thermostat that either comes with your house already or can be easily bought for less than $50? Set your thermostat once and you're pretty much done. The only time I need to go to my thermostat is when I want it a little warmer/cooler than the present temperature and I don't need an app to do that.

Are there other programmable thermostats that aren't just programmable but that can also give you a history of your energy usage (which, for example, may help in striving towards even greater efficiency)? I think that's part of the appeal, plus the fact that it's probably the most attractive thermostat on the market, which some people are willing to pay more for.

I'm still stuck with a manual thermostat myself and probably won't change--I just touch it a couple times a day. Down to 55 when I'm away, up to 60 or so when I'm home and maybe a few degrees warmer if I'm extra cold. You get used to it, and with seasonally appropriate clothing you'll be saving both money and energy, though I wouldn't complain if I thermostat could do this for me when I forget. :)

Boatboy24
Dec 21, 2012, 12:53 PM
Do want, but cannot justify the price.

I hear ya. Lowe's had a special over the Black Friday weekend for $199. It was worth a second thought at that price, but still seems incredibly pricey at that level.

Sky Blue
Dec 21, 2012, 12:53 PM
Had one for a couple of months, love it! well worth the price.

Boatboy24
Dec 21, 2012, 12:54 PM
The neat has a sensor that can tell that you are not at home and will not run the heat or AC until you return ( of which it senses that you are back).

My thermostat is on the 1st floor of the house. If I'm in the basement or upstairs for an extended period, how would the NEST know if I'm not home, or simply in another room?

kjs862
Dec 21, 2012, 12:54 PM
going to use the insurance money i get from hurricane sandy to get myself one of these!

zhenya
Dec 21, 2012, 12:54 PM
How is this that much different than any other programmable thermostat that either comes with your house already or can be easily bought for less than $50? Set your thermostat once and you're pretty much done. The only time I need to go to my thermostat is when I want it a little warmer/cooler than the present temperature and I don't need an app to do that.

By and large, it's not much different than a properly programmed programmable thermostat. In practice, there are some differences.

First, this is obviously a premium product, and you are paying for that. That's ok - if you have a well decorated house and the thermostat is prominent, that matters to some.

Mostly though, this is intended to be as user-friendly as possible. This starts with the installation - which they go to great lengths to make this do it yourself for the vast majority of people. As compared to the instructions for a regular thermostat, this is a huge improvement. Second, it is not a programmable thermostat in the traditional sense (although it can be used that way) - it is a learning thermostat. After you install it, you set your temperatures as normal for a couple of days. From that it learns your basic schedule. It has a proximity sensor so it knows if you are home, and adjusts accordingly. It learns your habits, and continues to adjust over time.

It's of course wi-fi connected, which allows you to interact with it from anywhere - which also greatly aids any configuration you want to do so. You can set your thermostat back when you go away for a few days (or it will automatically), and turn it on remotely on your way home. It shows how much time you system is running every day to help you monitor energy usage.

Finally, perhaps the biggest thing is that it offers all of that complexity in a device that is in general, as simple to use as any old-style dial thermostat. Turn the dial and set the temperature and you will get most of the benefit of the thermostat without doing anything else.

That answer the question? ;)

SatManager
Dec 21, 2012, 12:55 PM
I've got the general gist of self-adjusting for optimal energy use, but am at a loss to see how it gathers this data - especially when much of the occupant's activity is out of sight of the device (assuming it monitors infrared activity a la motion detectors), and temperature dynamics vary considerably across each floor of the house.

The sensor has a pretty wide view but has to see you pass by every so often. So if it is in a closet or such it won't work efficiently and you would have to run it manually. As to multiple thermostats it does have options for that.

H2SO4
Dec 21, 2012, 12:55 PM
I don't know how quickly they pay for themselves but I think the ROI happens within the first year.

Never. Unless somebody doesn't know how to work their heating.

burnside
Dec 21, 2012, 12:57 PM
Are there other programmable thermostats that aren't just programmable but that can also give you a history of your energy usage (which, for example, may help in striving towards even greater efficiency)? I think that's part of the appeal, plus the fact that it's probably the most attractive thermostat on the market, which some people are willing to pay more for.

I just look at my bill which gives me those stats. It's not an hour by hour usage, but it's all I need. If you think about it, when you're in the house you're going to have the thermostat set at the temperature which makes you comfortable, so no energy savings there. It's when no one is in the house that you want the temperature down. So just set your thermostat to a low temp when you're out of the house and that's that.

Shrink
Dec 21, 2012, 12:57 PM
The neat has a sensor that can tell that you are not at home and will not run the heat or AC until you return ( of which it senses that you are back). It learns your schedule over time and makes up a new schedule. It adjusts to you, if it sees you are in and out frequently it adjusts how long it takes to go into Auto-Away mode. You can turn off any of the behaviors and set manual limits as needed.

A monthly report is emailed to you letting you know how much energy is used and compares it with the previous month.

Hey, SatManager, thanks for taking the time to respond to my question.:D

brownpaw
Dec 21, 2012, 12:59 PM
Out of curiosity, has anyone used a Nest in a home with floor heating? I'd love to buy one of these but curious if it adapts to the 2-hour lead-time needed for the concrete slab to actually heat up.

dai.hop
Dec 21, 2012, 01:01 PM
I live in the UK, and want one of these baaaaaad.

H2SO4
Dec 21, 2012, 01:04 PM
I live in the UK, and want one of these baaaaaad.

..and you will have one soon. All that needs to happen is for one of the staff to change the $ to and £ and you're golden. £249.99, yes that's each!

aristobrat
Dec 21, 2012, 01:13 PM
I have a programmable thermostat which can be programmed for 4 different settings each day. I don't remember exactly what I paid for it, but I know it was less than $100 including installation by an HVAC professional...so if I could do it myself, it would have been less.

Serious question...what is the advantage of the NEST (aside from looking extremely cool :D) over my thermostat?
For me, it's the live feedback (i.e. daily energy usage), remote manageability (via smartphone apps or the web), and its ability to detect when nobody is home and changes the temperatures accordingly, in addition to any hard-set schedule that you may have.

I also like how they update the firmware with new features (as they develop them), like the new AirWave (http://support.nest.com/article/What-is-Airwave) feature.

Here are some shots I was able to snag at work, of what my home system is currently doing.

But honestly, I mostly got it because when my roommate (whose bedroom is downstairs, by the thermostat) cranks down the A/C in the summer (to artic levels) right before he goes to bed, I can adjust it from my upstairs bedroom without having to get out of bed.


http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m393/aristobratvb/forums/ScreenShot2012-12-21at14355PM_zps8d1cb190.png

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m393/aristobratvb/forums/ScreenShot2012-12-21at14411PM_zpsa8a25f12.png

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m393/aristobratvb/forums/ScreenShot2012-12-21at14423PM_zpsf75832ed.png

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m393/aristobratvb/forums/ScreenShot2012-12-21at14439PM_zpsd51123c4.png

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m393/aristobratvb/forums/ScreenShot2012-12-21at14505PM_zps94c8e9a6.png

----------

So just set your thermostat to a low temp when you're out of the house and that's that.
I think that's the point. IMO, most people, even with programmable thermostats, don't bother to lower the temperature when they leave the house. Or tell it to hold the current temperature. They just go about their business, giving the thermostat little thought.

Where the Nest (and other networked thermostats) offer an advantage, IMO, is by giving the owners regular feedback. Show them literally how many hours their system ran the night before. Give them leaf icons if they do a better job of managing their system.

For example, if I'm at work and get an invitation to hang out with buddies directly after work, it makes no sense for my HVAC system to follow the normal schedule and kick on at 4:30PM, warming the house up for my usual arrival home at 5:00PM. And it's not like I'm going to make a trip to swing home just to turn down the HVAC. With the Nest (and others like it), I can use the app/web to quickly put the system in "away" mode, which makes it ignore the regular schedule until I switch it back. That'll earn me a leaf. And as stupid as it sounds, it's somewhat motivating to me to pay more attention to my HVAC system.

slicecom
Dec 21, 2012, 01:17 PM
I wish this would work in my condo, but it's got a high-voltage thermostat.

zhenya
Dec 21, 2012, 01:21 PM
I just look at my bill which gives me those stats. It's not an hour by hour usage, but it's all I need. If you think about it, when you're in the house you're going to have the thermostat set at the temperature which makes you comfortable, so no energy savings there. It's when no one is in the house that you want the temperature down. So just set your thermostat to a low temp when you're out of the house and that's that.

That's pretty much what this does - but it provides all of the advantages of a finely-programmed programmable with the ease of an old dial.

The other thing it does is it learns how long it takes your particular house to heat or cool between different settings. It then starts to adjust the 'on' time such that it is actually at the temperature you set when you set it. It even takes into account the external temperature in determining how long this will take.

----------

Out of curiosity, has anyone used a Nest in a home with floor heating? I'd love to buy one of these but curious if it adapts to the 2-hour lead-time needed for the concrete slab to actually heat up.

It will, but before you run out and get one, look into what the real recommendations are for your system. For modern efficient radiant systems, and especially high-mass systems like concrete slab, the benefits of setting your thermostat back may be negligible to none. You might be better off setting a temperature and leaving it.

spb3
Dec 21, 2012, 01:25 PM
Is that thermostat in OP cracked?

aristobrat
Dec 21, 2012, 01:27 PM
Is that thermostat in OP cracked?
No, that's normal. It has sensors and stuff below the line. I don't recall the line being quite THAT noticeable on mine. I mean, you see it, but I've never had anyone think it was a crack or anything.

rdlink
Dec 21, 2012, 01:32 PM
By and large, it's not much different than a properly programmed programmable thermostat. In practice, there are some differences.

First, this is obviously a premium product, and you are paying for that. That's ok - if you have a well decorated house and the thermostat is prominent, that matters to some.

Mostly though, this is intended to be as user-friendly as possible. This starts with the installation - which they go to great lengths to make this do it yourself for the vast majority of people. As compared to the instructions for a regular thermostat, this is a huge improvement. Second, it is not a programmable thermostat in the traditional sense (although it can be used that way) - it is a learning thermostat. After you install it, you set your temperatures as normal for a couple of days. From that it learns your basic schedule. It has a proximity sensor so it knows if you are home, and adjusts accordingly. It learns your habits, and continues to adjust over time.

It's of course wi-fi connected, which allows you to interact with it from anywhere - which also greatly aids any configuration you want to do so. You can set your thermostat back when you go away for a few days (or it will automatically), and turn it on remotely on your way home. It shows how much time you system is running every day to help you monitor energy usage.

Finally, perhaps the biggest thing is that it offers all of that complexity in a device that is in general, as simple to use as any old-style dial thermostat. Turn the dial and set the temperature and you will get most of the benefit of the thermostat without doing anything else.

That answer the question? ;)

I'll add to that, as I was one of the original owners of the Nest when it was introduced. I bought it because it had two things that I wanted for years in a programmable thermostat, and could not understand why nobody had tried to make it before: First, ease of use. Second, a display that can be easily read in a dark hallway or room (seems minor, but it's been a pet peeve of mine on every thermostat I've owned for 25 years.) Most programmable thermostats are either stupid, difficult to navigate through and program, or both. Nest not only make programming extremely easy, either at the thermostat itself, on your iOS device or on your internet connected computer, but it also learns from your habits.

So, you hook up your Nest, then spend a few days adjusting the temps to what's comfortable to you. Let's say you wake up at 6, and turn the thermostat up from 65 to 70 while you're making coffee. Do this for about three or four days, and Nest learns your habits, and adjust itself to automatically turn itself up at 6. But that's not all. On Saturdays and Sundays you don't get up until 7:30. A few days of that, and Nest will know not to turn itself up on weekends until the later time. Then, if your schedule changes Nest will adjust. So if you start getting up at 5 on weekdays, Nest will learn from that, and change it's schedule on its own.

Nest also keeps track of the weather in your area, and adjusts itself constantly to maximize efficiency based on that weather.

I've looked at the "competition" and there frankly isn't any. I would assume that anyone who is on this site uses Apple products, and does so because they realize that great products are worth a little more money. Nest is a great product, and is worth every dime.

Wolffie
Dec 21, 2012, 01:35 PM
So Nest would not be effiecient for a home with large dogs that run by the device every hour?

zhenya
Dec 21, 2012, 01:38 PM
So Nest would not be effiecient for a home with large dogs that run by the device every hour?

Depends on the specifics - Nest addresses these questions in detail on their site, so it's worth looking at. You can also over-ride its learning capabilities if necessary.

Shade12
Dec 21, 2012, 01:41 PM
I have a programmable thermostat which can be programmed for 4 different settings each day. I don't remember exactly what I paid for it, but I know it was less than $100 including installation by an HVAC professional...so if I could do it myself, it would have been less.

Serious question...what is the advantage of the NEST (aside from looking extremely cool :D) over my thermostat?
True. There's cheaper versions.

aristobrat
Dec 21, 2012, 01:45 PM
So Nest would not be effiecient for a home with large dogs that run by the device every hour?
In my house, the NEST sits about 5ft high on the wall. It lights up whenever someone walks in front of it. It's never lighted up when either of the three dogs have run in front of it.

But yeah, depending on how you have it mounted, a pet theoretically could be detected. Then the "auto away" feature would not be of much use to you.

There's still a few other ways that I think a Nest can be more efficient than a regular thermostat, so I wouldn't personally say it's "not efficient" just because "auto away" doesn't work in your house.

zhenya
Dec 21, 2012, 01:47 PM
In my house, the NEST sits about 5ft high on the wall. It lights up whenever someone walks in front of it. It's never lighted up when either of the three dogs have run in front of it.

But yeah, depending on how you have it mounted, a pet theoretically could be detected. Then the "auto away" feature would not be of much use to you.

There's still a few other ways that I think a Nest can be more efficient than a regular thermostat, so I wouldn't personally say it's pointless just because "auto away" doesn't work in your house.

yeah, I note that mine lights up if I walk by say in the middle of the night, but during the day when it sees a lot of traffic, I have to put my hand in front of it to light up, so it obviously varies the sensitivity. I've never seen our 60lb dog trigger it.

akatsuki
Dec 21, 2012, 02:04 PM
Halved my ridiculous bill in one month, so for us completely worth it.

I wish they could control PTAC units which we have some of.

Also, I wish they had remote temp sensors to get more even temp distribution.

roland.g
Dec 21, 2012, 02:05 PM
Apparently the 2nd gen. has been redesigned to work much better with radiant in floor heat systems which is what we have. Unfortunately we also have 5 zones and 5 stats. I bought some $40 Honeywells that are not programmable 3 years ago and last week bought 2 Nest Units (5% off with Lowe's card at Lowe's), but I have yet to install them. I expect to see some good savings and I think they will pay for themselves by the end of next winter (2 seasons).

iScott428
Dec 21, 2012, 02:07 PM
I do not live somewhere cold where heating is always necessary. I live in Florida (Central FL at that) where cooling is a part of life. As soon as I bought a house I installed the Nest and since then it has easily paid for itself and is currently making me money.

Auto away is brilliant and Airwave is great too, but its the smart sense of the Nest that reminds me so much of my first iPhone and I was like damn why didnt someone think of this before. It looks great but it functions even better. Energy reports, daily usage details, smartphone, ipad or web control is awesome. Like many other have said I also have a stupid reason for having it and that is if I am too lazy, cold (in bed), or just showing off I can change the temp from my iPhone. Its stupid easy to use, install, and understand. I highly recommend the Nest

ifij775
Dec 21, 2012, 02:11 PM
I wish they would integrate with a 240 VAC relay that could control my AC unit this is plugged into an outlet.

sweetbrat
Dec 21, 2012, 02:12 PM
I think the Nest is great. There's a lot of times when I get stuck working late. With a traditional thermostat, the heat is going to kick on at 5pm, whether I'm there or not. Why heat the house if I'm not there? With the Nest, I can log in to the website or use my iPhone app and tell it that I'm away, and the heat stays off. It might not seem like much, but an extra two or three hours a week without the furnace on makes a big difference.

The Auto-Away feature works great, too. A lot of people, especially with programmable thermostats, forget to turn the heat down if they leave the house off their usual schedule. So, you're wasting energy. The Nest detects when there hasn't been any movement for a while, and it goes into Auto-Away mode so that heat or A/C isn't being used needlessly. Of course, it's still better if you remember to set it to Away before you leave the house, but having Auto-Away kick in after a while is a nice back-up to help save money. I don't have a big dog, but our cats jumping around in front of it have never caused a problem with Auto-Away.

Like someone else also mentioned, if you're particularly cold one night, it's nice to be able to adjust it from bed using your phone, rather than getting up in the cold and going to the thermostat, which might be on the other side of the house. It may be a little thing, but to me, it's worth it.

bedifferent
Dec 21, 2012, 02:16 PM
Also, I wish they had remote temp sensors to get more even temp distribution.

This is my only concern, as our home is 4,000+ sq ft, utilizing one thermostat with proximity sensors to determine "Away" time may not be efficient (especially as it's in the media room). However, the rep I spoke with this morning said zone's can be created with more than one "Nest", however that reaches into the $500+ range.

On another note, I am excited they took consumer inquiries into account for this revision. Our new "Trane" HVAC system with an 18 SEER and two stage heating and cooling wasn't supported in ver 1.0, now 2.0 has support for 2 and 3 stage cooling, heating and even humidifier and dehumidifier support. Great news.

dhcl604
Dec 21, 2012, 02:38 PM
I was thinking about purchasing The Nest so I read some of the blog postings. It seems that it uses an internal battery which would have to be replaced by the manufacturer every 5 to 7 years. Also, during the times inactivity of the heat and AC, the thermostat tries to cycle the heat to charge it's battery. I read several complaints about both. I've been using Honeywell programable thermostats in my home which work just fine. The latest model (RTH8580WF) now uses WiFi for programming and control. It gets it's power from the furnace, not a battery. Home Depot has them for $149.00 but you can get them on ebay for around $125.00 or so. I picked one up and it works great. The App opens fast and allows me to view and adjust my house temperature. Programming has to be done on a computer or the thermostat itself. Very easy. It even sends email alerts if temps go over or under your presets.
Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents in case anyone was looking to buy a new thermostat.

dbrewer80221
Dec 21, 2012, 02:52 PM
I have wanted a Nest thermostat ever since they came out, simply because no other thermostat offers the features that this one does. Unfortunately, Nest knows that, and that's why they're $250. I can't justify spending that much money on a thermostat, especially when I would need 2 for my house.

If they were $99, or even $149 I would do it.

zhenya
Dec 21, 2012, 02:53 PM
I was thinking about purchasing The Nest so I read some of the blog postings. It seems that it uses an internal battery which would have to be replaced by the manufacturer every 5 to 7 years. Also, during the times inactivity of the heat and AC, the thermostat tries to cycle the heat to charge it's battery. I read several complaints about both. I've been using Honeywell programable thermostats in my home which work just fine. The latest model (RTH8580WF) now uses WiFi for programming and control. It gets it's power from the furnace, not a battery. Home Depot has them for $149.00 but you can get them on ebay for around $125.00 or so. I picked one up and it works great. The App opens fast and allows me to view and adjust my house temperature. Programming has to be done on a computer or the thermostat itself. Very easy. It even sends email alerts if temps go over or under your presets.
Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents in case anyone was looking to buy a new thermostat.

Nest quotes 7-10 years as potential replacement times, with a 5 year warranty. Most thermostat wiring is live even if the furnace is not running, so I'm not sure what you're going on about there.

GoCubsGo
Dec 21, 2012, 02:58 PM
Never. Unless somebody doesn't know how to work their heating.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Actual owners suggest otherwise.

budselectjr
Dec 21, 2012, 03:33 PM
Out of curiosity, has anyone used a Nest in a home with floor heating? I'd love to buy one of these but curious if it adapts to the 2-hour lead-time needed for the concrete slab to actually heat up.

It has a feature specifially for radiant systems. It will learn how long it takes for the system to reach the desired temp and develope a propper lag time. And it also will shut it off ahead of time so it does not go over that temp.

http://support.nest.com/article/What-is-True-Radiant

DaveTheRave
Dec 21, 2012, 04:06 PM
Serious question...what is the advantage of the NEST (aside from looking extremely cool :D) over my thermostat?

I've never used one but just bought one for my parents' beach house as an Xmas gift. This will give them the ability to remotely monitor and control the temp from their other house, which is more than a 2 hour drive away. They check on the beach house about once a month during the winter and have to crank up the heat when they get there (usually around 50 degrees when the house is unoccupied.) Now they will be able to crank up the heat before they get there.

chambord
Dec 21, 2012, 05:14 PM
How is this that much different than any other programmable thermostat that either comes with your house already or can be easily bought for less than $50? Set your thermostat once and you're pretty much done. The only time I need to go to my thermostat is when I want it a little warmer/cooler than the present temperature and I don't need an app to do that.

You know, if you only spent 10 minutes reading about the thermometer, you could save yourself the trouble of writing such an embarrassing clueless post. You don't know a thing about it, and you write junk like this. I know this is asking a lot, but do ten minutes of reading before opening your mouth.

Mr X
Dec 22, 2012, 12:09 PM
Anyone know if the US product will work in the UK?

Sky Blue
Dec 22, 2012, 12:11 PM
Anyone know if the US product will work in the UK?

No, it will not.

Mr X
Dec 22, 2012, 12:24 PM
Ok thanks. Hope they release a UK version soon, exactly what I need.

bedifferent
Dec 22, 2012, 12:55 PM
Ok thanks. Hope they release a UK version soon, exactly what I need.

I suggest ringing Nest and inquiring about future International support. From the article(s) I've read, they absolutely took inquiries and suggestions seriously, leading to the improvements in ver 2.0 (such as multi-stage support in higher end HVAC systems, etc). When I phoned last year inquiring about ver 1.0, the rep took my info and I was contacted by Nest a few weeks later regarding my Trane HVAC system and what they needed to do to support it. I phoned again yesterday and spoke with the same rep from last year; she informed me that all the collected data was taken into account to improve support for this newer model.

Almost forgot, when asking about multi-zone support, she hinted that satellite models may become available. Thus you would only need the main Nest thermostat and less expensive "satellite" nests to communicate their readings in different zones to the master unit. Seems like a great idea.

slicecom
Dec 22, 2012, 01:30 PM
I suggest ringing Nest and inquiring about future International support. From the article(s) I've read, they absolutely took inquiries and suggestions seriously, leading to the improvements in ver 2.0 (such as multi-stage support in higher end HVAC systems, etc). When I phoned last year inquiring about ver 1.0, the rep took my info and I was contacted by Nest a few weeks later regarding my Trane HVAC system and what they needed to do to support it. I phoned again yesterday and spoke with the same rep from last year; she informed me that all the collected data was taken into account to improve support for this newer model.

Almost forgot, when asking about multi-zone support, she hinted that satellite models may become available. Thus you would only need the main Nest thermostat and less expensive "satellite" nests to communicate their readings in different zones to the master unit. Seems like a great idea.

Yeah I've emailed them requesting a high voltage version. Considering that low voltage systems are really only common in the USA, they'd be wise to make a high voltage version.

SnowLeopard OSX
Dec 22, 2012, 01:43 PM
I like the design. Very minimalist -- something I'd expect from a former Apple industrial designer. The price tag is just too high, though. Especially for a thermostat out of all things. Pretty innovative product, though. I'll give it that.

zhenya
Dec 22, 2012, 02:03 PM
I like the design. Very minimalist -- something I'd expect from a former Apple industrial designer. The price tag is just too high, though. Especially for a thermostat out of all things. Pretty innovative product, though. I'll give it that.

Expensive for a thermostat? I guess so. But when most people spend a couple of thousand dollars a year or much more on heating and cooling costs, and a new furnace may run $10,000, $250 on a thermostat doesn't seem like much of an extravagance.

bedifferent
Dec 22, 2012, 02:58 PM
Expensive for a thermostat? I guess so. But when most people spend a couple of thousand dollars a year or much more on heating and cooling costs, and a new furnace may run $10,000, $250 on a thermostat doesn't seem like much of an extravagance.

Our Trane HVAC system cost well over $10,000 (not including the instant water/filtration system). This was with the $1500 NYS credit. It's been ~three years (wow, time flies), and we've seen our bills almost cut in half in our custom 8 year old home with an 18 SEER (previously had a York the builder installed, terrible systems; expensive as they may be - Trane/Rheem systems pay for themselves in a few years). Utilizing the newer Nest with multi-stage support will make up for the $250 cost with even better energy efficiency. In the end, long term costs should be taken into account per home. This is an investment.

----------

Yeah I've emailed them requesting a high voltage version. Considering that low voltage systems are really only common in the USA, they'd be wise to make a high voltage version.

Absolutely, there's a large international market waiting to be tapped into. An easy to install thermostat that takes the guess work out of home energy usage while lowering costs and the global carbon footprint is a no brainer. This would work beautifully in smaller homes such as most European and Japanese homes.

zhenya
Dec 22, 2012, 03:05 PM
Yeah I've emailed them requesting a high voltage version. Considering that low voltage systems are really only common in the USA, they'd be wise to make a high voltage version.

I think somewhere on their site they say in effect that since they are trying to keep the user experience so high (especially the installation) they have necessarily had to limit the regions they released it in initially.

steve119
Dec 22, 2012, 03:21 PM
I would love something like this for my gas central heating.....

DakotaGuy
Dec 22, 2012, 07:52 PM
Trane/Rheem systems pay for themselves in a few years)

Trane/Rheem is good, but the brand has nothing to do with a system paying for itself in a few years. I just put in a new Amana system (yes I know some consider anything Goodman garbage) but it has an excellent warranty and is good quality stuff for the price. Anyhow I could not afford Trane, Rheem or Carrier so I ended up going the Amana route.

What makes a system pay for itself is the efficiency. I went from an old Natural Gas that was at best 60% efficient to a new 95% furnace. It will too pay for itself in a few years. I added central air to it, but only did a 13 SEER because our cooling season is so short where I live. I did not do a heat pump because my house is old so not insulted as well and our average winter temps are low.

dinggus
Dec 22, 2012, 07:59 PM
I'm curious to how this works, because I already have I guess a "smart" house. I can control everything electronic wise through my iPhone. So, if I got this, it replaces my new thermostat? House was built this year.

Do you put one in each room or the main rooms? Like entry way, bedroom, living room?

bedifferent
Dec 23, 2012, 06:59 AM
Trane/Rheem is good, but the brand has nothing to do with a system paying for itself in a few years. I just put in a new Amana system (yes I know some consider anything Goodman garbage) but it has an excellent warranty and is good quality stuff for the price. Anyhow I could not afford Trane, Rheem or Carrier so I ended up going the Amana route.

Amana is great, it was one of the four we were considering. We decided on the Trane system as the HVAC company priced out an 18 SEER system for the same amount of money a comparable Amana would cost, and threw in a few extra's from Trane. :)

nielsll
Dec 23, 2012, 08:33 AM
I have a five zone home that I converted from a standard type programmable (correctly programmed) to nests. I live in the CA desert and looking at my utility bills, year to year, over the June-Sept. span I figure they paid for themselves in one season. They seem to learn how your house really works and match cycles to more economically cool it. Heating is not a real concern for me. The internet access is a great feature when you have an unusual schedule. When away for a few days, you just tell it when you want your programmed temp and it just works.

DakotaGuy
Dec 23, 2012, 08:52 AM
Amana is great, it was one of the four we were considering. We decided on the Trane system as the HVAC company priced out an 18 SEER system for the same amount of money a comparable Amana would cost, and threw in a few extra's from Trane. :)

Interesting you got such a good price on a Trane. Anyhow yes I am very happy with my Amana system. The savings on gas are amazing. At least 1/2 of what I used before. I can't imagine how much energy we could save in our country if everyone was running one of these new systems.

sputnikv
Dec 23, 2012, 07:28 PM
these guys are known for paying for themselves in energy savings

Ryth
Dec 24, 2012, 12:21 AM
Doesn't it cost you more to constantly re-heat or re-cool your house vs just having it come on every so often to keep the temperature constant?

zhenya
Dec 24, 2012, 06:10 AM
Doesn't it cost you more to constantly re-heat or re-cool your house vs just having it come on every so often to keep the temperature constant?

It really depends on the particular system, but for the most case, no. Forced air systems virtually always save energy. Most older furnaces of any type save energy. Some modern radiant systems with high-mass emitters and/or highly efficient boilers that are most efficient at low output, yes, that is probably true.

Bubba Satori
Dec 24, 2012, 04:29 PM
Thank goodness this came out before a new Mac Pro. :rolleyes:

Ccrew
Dec 25, 2012, 12:12 AM
So Nest would not be effiecient for a home with large dogs that run by the device every hour?

Interesting question, thanks for asking. I have two German Shepherds that gave my ADT alarm system nightmares until they finally gave up on motion sensors downstairs and swapped everything to glass breakage for just your reason.

The alarm system was just N+1 anyway though, the Shepherds will just wait quietly for you to enter then flag you as prey :)

GaresTaylan
Dec 25, 2012, 12:53 AM
Thank goodness this came out before a new Mac Pro. :rolleyes:

Since apple didn't make nest like they do the Mac Pro this makes no sense. Apples to oranges adding stock of a product made elsewhere vs overhauling a product you make, mass producing it and then getting it to stores.

bedifferent
Dec 25, 2012, 02:09 PM
Just installed version 2.0 on our Trane HVAC system. Most definitely the easiest install/upgrade I've ever done.

One note: Our thermostat had S1 and S2 wires - these are for indoor and outdoor sensors. As the Nest thermostat uses WiFi for current outdoor conditions and a built-in indoor sensor, any S-wiring does not need to be connected. Simply leave it be, electrical tape it if you must but unnecessary for a low-voltage system.

Our 2-state heating and cooling HVAC system is up and running with our new Nest thermostat. Loving it so far. :)

Merry Christmas!

coolspot18
Dec 27, 2012, 12:50 AM
Expensive for a thermostat? I guess so. But when most people spend a couple of thousand dollars a year or much more on heating and cooling costs, and a new furnace may run $10,000, $250 on a thermostat doesn't seem like much of an extravagance.


I think the point is that a $50 thermostat will do the job just as good...

zhenya
Dec 27, 2012, 07:53 AM
I think the point is that a $50 thermostat will do the job just as good...

Maybe, but considering that this product was developed specifically to address the shortcomings of those $50 thermostats, I have to somewhat disagree. The Nest may not save any money over a $50 unit programmed in the same way as the Nest, but the latter is infinitely easier to use, and provides a lot of functionality that the cheaper unit doesn't. And the potential is there that the Nest will save money, even over a programmed unit, as it continues to learn over time.

drummingcraig
Dec 27, 2012, 09:27 AM
I think the point is that a $50 thermostat will do the job just as good...

Please link me to a $50 thermostat that has wifi connectivity, remote control from anywhere via app support for Android and iOS, comes with simple firmware upgradeability and has dynamic capabilities (learns and adapts to users habits).

If you can, I would love to see it, but I doubt it exists.

One could also say, "Why buy a $25,000 car when a $2,500 go-cart would do the job just as well". :rolleyes:

Adidas Addict
Dec 27, 2012, 10:25 AM
This must be a favour for some friend of someone very high up at Apple.

coolspot18
Dec 27, 2012, 11:00 AM
Please link me to a $50 thermostat that has wifi connectivity, remote control from anywhere via app support for Android and iOS, comes with simple firmware upgradeability and has dynamic capabilities (learns and adapts to users habits).

If you can, I would love to see it, but I doubt it exists.

One could also say, "Why buy a $25,000 car when a $2,500 go-cart would do the job just as well". :rolleyes:

Except I think it's all a gimmick, a forced air system without zoning isn't that effective in managing temperatures across multiple floors. Also, not to mention, the Nest only has a single sensor and cannot effectively monitor a whole house.

Basically these features are gimmicky targeted towards the tech user.

Now, if homes had zoned HVAC and the nest could control each room independently that would be amazing.

drummingcraig
Dec 27, 2012, 12:36 PM
Except I think it's all a gimmick, a forced air system without zoning isn't that effective in managing temperatures across multiple floors. Also, not to mention, the Nest only has a single sensor and cannot effectively monitor a whole house.

Basically these features are gimmicky targeted towards the tech user.

Now, if homes had zoned HVAC and the nest could control each room independently that would be amazing.

The nest does support zoned systems, however the drawback is you have to install a Nest in each zone, and then they can all communicate via wifi.

britboyj
Dec 31, 2012, 12:37 PM
The nest does support zoned systems, however the drawback is you have to install a Nest in each zone, and then they can all communicate via wifi.

Yep. I do this in my house. One Nest upstairs, one downstairs. They talk to each other.

Quirinus
Jan 2, 2013, 10:22 AM
This made me giggle :D :
In some homes, the presence of pets may end Auto-Away mode before users have returned home. Whether or not pets affect Auto-Away depends on Nestís location in the home and the size of the pet(s)

Mike Valmike
Jan 2, 2013, 11:23 AM
I can't tell you precisely where the differences are in Nest operations vs a normal programmable thermostat. What I can tell you is this. I live in the suburbs of Phoenix, AZ, where we spend basically March through October with temperatures higher than most regions experience all year. It is particularly brutal in July and August. 110+ degrees every single day. I have a one-story, 2000sf house. I had a Honeywell programmable thermostat set to keep temps at a tolerable level during the day and somewhat more pleasant at night. From 2008 when I bought the house through 2011, my summer power bill was never less than $400/month. In March 2012, I bought and installed a Nest and just let it do its thing. This summer, I never had a power bill that was more than $300/month. In one year it more than paid for itself. This is such a no-brainer that it touched off a flurry of Nest purchases among my family and friends. The numbers don't lie.

mrfoof82
Jan 2, 2013, 07:22 PM
I live in a high-end 1 bedroom apartment that's less than 5 years old, and is south-facing (bathed in sunlight all morning). I'm pretty frugal with the heat and A/C, and the Nest still saved me ~$180 in 2012 (11.5 months), reducing my overall electricity usage by ~25%.

No finicky setting schedules manually either, and occasional spiking the temp in one direction or the other. Really saved a bundle, and looks a lot better than the Honeywell thing the place came with.

dinggus
Jan 2, 2013, 07:34 PM
I just look at my bill which gives me those stats. It's not an hour by hour usage, but it's all I need. If you think about it, when you're in the house you're going to have the thermostat set at the temperature which makes you comfortable, so no energy savings there. It's when no one is in the house that you want the temperature down. So just set your thermostat to a low temp when you're out of the house and that's that.

If I set my house temp. low before I leave, it'll be running all day. It doesn't get 70F outside until later in the evening in Miami.

My buddy asked why I leave the temp. at 80F when I'm out of the house, and I told him so I'm not running AC all day, so now we're wondering, does it cost more to leave it at 80F and then turn it on when we get home, or leave it running all day. Only reason we ask is because if it's 90F out, and 80F is still hot, we'd like to be around 74F usually, so it would take the house that much longer to get to 74F. Where as, if we kept it running all day it'll keep it at 74F and that's that.

greenyoga
Jan 3, 2013, 12:48 AM
:p Interesting...

Lil Chillbil
Jan 3, 2013, 09:10 PM
I still don't have an iphone :(

dec.
Jan 8, 2013, 06:50 AM
Installed our Nest yesterday - and I love it. The build quality is great, the interface is very smooth and neat and the installation was a breeze, I replaced our thermostat sometime last year and could have only wished for a clean wiring solution like the Nest has. I'm extremely impressed. Details like the motion sensor, the built-in level for installation etc. really are spot on. The price tag might appear slightly hefty at first but it's absolutely worth it, imho.

Oracle1729
Jan 8, 2013, 08:17 AM
so now we're wondering, does it cost more to leave it at 80F and then turn it on when we get home, or leave it running all day. Only reason we ask is because if it's 90F out, and 80F is still hot, we'd like to be around 74F usually, so it would take the house that much longer to get to 74F. Where as, if we kept it running all day it'll keep it at 74F and that's that.

The fact that you even wonder makes me weep for the quality of the American education system. Americans have no analytic abilities anymore.

I suppose if you were going away for a month, the answer would be obvious to you, but why is 8 hours or 2 hours any different. When it's 90 outside, why would leaving it at 80 somehow be more efficent than turning it off but leaving it at 74 is less efficient? Is the system on for more hours keeping it at 80 all day or brining it from 90 to 80?

The only reason it makes sense to leave it at 80 all day is if the system takes too long getting the temp back down to something comfortable (and then you're still wasting energy to reduce your wait to be comfortable), which is a preferential choice everyone can make for themselves.

cdavis11
Jan 8, 2013, 08:23 AM
Bought a Gen 1 Nest in November 2011, just after they came out.

I've been extremely happy with it so far. The latest system software updates have taken it from good to great.

I'm very pleased with it.

Mike Valmike
Jan 8, 2013, 11:52 AM
The fact that you even wonder makes me weep for the quality of the American education system. Americans have no analytic abilities anymore.


The fact that you don't understand the concept of heat transfer makes me weep for the quality of the education in whichever wannabe country you reside. The OP asked a legitimate question: does it use more energy to maintain a 10-degree reduction, or to reach it again after leaving the HVAC turned off all day. Residential buildings are subject to temperature fluctuation due to normal environmental conditions.

Oracle1729
Jan 8, 2013, 07:06 PM
The fact that you don't understand the concept of heat transfer makes me weep for the quality of the education in whichever wannabe country you reside. The OP asked a legitimate question: does it use more energy to maintain a 10-degree reduction, or to reach it again after leaving the HVAC turned off all day. Residential buildings are subject to temperature fluctuation due to normal environmental conditions.

When you get a chance, google Newton's Law of Cooling, it's a good start on heat transfer.

Residential building HVAC really isn't that complicated, but insofar as it is, it's a red herring to this discussion.

The fact that you feel the need to defend such a silly question with such venom speaks volumes.

scarred
Jan 8, 2013, 09:00 PM
The fact that you feel the need to defend such a silly question with such venom speaks volumes.

You ought to read what you posted before criticizing others. Well, thanks for the laugh anyways :P

dinggus
Jan 8, 2013, 10:28 PM
The fact that you even wonder makes me weep for the quality of the American education system. Americans have no analytic abilities anymore.

I suppose if you were going away for a month, the answer would be obvious to you, but why is 8 hours or 2 hours any different. When it's 90 outside, why would leaving it at 80 somehow be more efficent than turning it off but leaving it at 74 is less efficient? Is the system on for more hours keeping it at 80 all day or brining it from 90 to 80?

The only reason it makes sense to leave it at 80 all day is if the system takes too long getting the temp back down to something comfortable (and then you're still wasting energy to reduce your wait to be comfortable), which is a preferential choice everyone can make for themselves.

Whoa there keyboard tough guy, sorry I have interests in other things besides learning about heat and cooling transfers.

The fact you need to question my silly questions and make statements on my knowledge of analytic abilities with such venom speaks volumes.