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View Full Version : Now this is really exciting! Geologists find Earth's oldest rocks...


Mr. Anderson
Dec 3, 2002, 08:38 PM
Ok, its a bit much, I know, but I spent some time working in the Geology Department at Ohio State writing 3D animation software, so I have a bit of a soft spot for this.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/12/03/canada.rocks.reut/index.html

D

macphisto
Dec 3, 2002, 09:21 PM
That's cool. I when new things are discovered about our world and everything around it. Speaking of which, have you checked out the article in the newest National Geographic about the Chandra X-ray telescope? Very cool. They talk about the discovery of very types of black holes and have a picture of Deep Field South. 12 Billion light years away. Check it out.

Do you still write 3D software? What other packages do you use? Just curious.

Mr. Anderson
Dec 4, 2002, 06:40 AM
I moved on from writing to just creating in 3d - much more fun. I do a lot of 3d animation and illustration for work and do freelance when I can. Mostly I'm using Lightwave on my Mac.

I saw the Chandra article in NationalGeo - very cool stuff.

D

Mal
Dec 4, 2002, 10:14 AM
I can't believe these guys. They claim that it only took less than a billion years for life to evolve, and then it took almost 4 billion years more to get to the point we're at now? How can you seriously believe that? And another thing: wouldn't the oldest rocks be buried under billions of years worth of newer rocks? This doesn't make sense, I say these so-called "scientists" are just preaching their own religion and using the title of scientist to try and back it up.

JW

MacBandit
Dec 4, 2002, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by skywalker
I can't believe these guys. They claim that it only took less than a billion years for life to evolve, and then it took almost 4 billion years more to get to the point we're at now? How can you seriously believe that? And another thing: wouldn't the oldest rocks be buried under billions of years worth of newer rocks? This doesn't make sense, I say these so-called "scientists" are just preaching their own religion and using the title of scientist to try and back it up.

JW

You obviously don't understand so therefore you choose to gripe about it. Spend some time and open your mind to there ideas. You will soon realize that evolution is happing all around you every day. How long do you think it would take a single cell organism such as an amoeba to evolve into a multicellular organism of great size? Don't forget the earth has gone through some pretty large cataclysms that set evolution back millions of years in each event. humans were nearly wiped out in one of those.

About the rocks. The earth is in constant upheaval. If everything is left unmoved yes dust and dirt will cover older rock but things are not still on our planet. Erosion is constantly uncovering older layers of rock and volcanic upheaval also pushes older rocks to the surface. Another way to find old rocks on the surface is to find meteorites. They are quite often the oldest rocks in the solar system. They are currently doing heavy duty searching in Antarctica and finding some really great meteorites.

This is great stuff. My major is Geology or Earth Sciences. I had to take a break from school to pursue my current career. The career isn't going well at the moment so maybe I'll be able to finish my degree.

Mr. Anderson
Dec 4, 2002, 10:27 AM
ah, ok, so do you know anything about geology? You should do a little reading up before coming in and slamming something you have no idea about.

Because collisions between large planetesimals release a lot of heat, the Earth and other planets would have been molten at the beginning of their histories. Solidification of the molten material into rocks happened as the Earth cooled. The oldest meteorites and lunar rocks are about 4.5 billion years old, but the oldest Earth rocks currently known are 3.8 billion years old. Sometime during the first 800 million or so years of its history, the surface of the Earth changed from liquid to solid. Once solid rock formed on the Earth, its geological history began. This most likely happened prior to 3.8 billion years, but hard evidence for this is lacking. Erosion and plate tectonics has probably destroyed all of the solid rocks that were older than 3.8 billion years. The beginning of the rock record that is currently present on the Earth is the inception of a time known as the Archaean.

You can some more of this at http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/precambrian/precambrian.html - which will give you a better idea of what happened billions of years ago.....:rolleyes:

D

maluscanis
Dec 4, 2002, 10:53 AM
Folks, I just wanted to point out the "fact" that evolution in its present state of development is a theory. It is a theory that has some major problems to work through and therefore i believe we should not disregard others opinions and theories about life origins but treat those ideas with an open mind and an objective mind. As far as astronomy, which i know very little about, it seems to me that the goal of science is to explain phenomena. The goal is to explain the things we are currently able to "observe". Herein lies a problem with giving an answer for the origin of the universe. Unless we can be sure that our understanding of physics is absolute, we cannot rule out other possibilities. And certainly not rule out the opinion that maybe God had something to do with all this.


Note how a good majority of theories of universe origins will begin with the words "because we know this happens, this other scenario must have happened the same way"...I am sorry but this is not conclusive evidence because it makes **assumptions**.

Mr. Anderson
Dec 4, 2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by maluscanis
Note how a good majority of theories of universe origins will begin with the words "because we know this happens, this other scenario must have happened the same way"...I am sorry but this is not conclusive evidence because it makes **assumptions**.

We weren't talking about the creation of the universe, there is very little evidence, a lot less than what we see here on the Earth and how it has evolved over the eons. Looking at the fossil record its obvious that there has been plenty of change in the life on the planet, change in the shape of the oceans and continents. Finding the oldest rock helps us to understand more about the planet, its good science.

I'm not ruling out God at all, but I'm not a creationist in the sense that God made the world in 6 days either. The Bible doesn't have to be the only truth and was written or created/thought up over 4 thousand (parts of the Old Testament). The basis of knowledge of the world was very limited. Just because its written doesn't make it true.

If you've ever been to the Grand Canyon you can see for yourself the layers of rock that were put down over the course of more than a billion years. http://www.kaibab.org/gc/geology/gc_layer.htm

I'm not saying that people aren't allowed to believe what ever they want, but faced with proof that they aren't correct, I'm going to argue with them. You shouldn't start spouting off against something you don't know about, take the time to learn more, then form an educated or thoughtful, at least, reply.

D

macphisto
Dec 4, 2002, 07:39 PM
I use Cinema4D and Maya (latter not as much as the former.) I love to mess with 3D and throw them into After Effects and the like. Maybe I will have to post some of my stuff,...that is when I finish some of them. For some reason, I seem to get distracted by experimenting and other projects and then never finish the ones I start. Strange...

Mr. Anderson
Dec 4, 2002, 07:46 PM
Definitely post some of your work. I'm going to have some of mine up and going soon - been working on a couple ideas, just got to get around to rendering and tweaking it a bit.

But if you want to discuss 3D, start a thread in the community forum so we can keep this one on track.

Thanks,

D

MacBandit
Dec 4, 2002, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by maluscanis
Folks, I just wanted to point out the "fact" that evolution in its present state of development is a theory.......

And certainly not rule out the opinion that maybe God had something to do with all this.


Note how a good majority of theories of universe origins will begin with the words "because we know this happens, this other scenario must have happened the same way"...I am sorry but this is not conclusive evidence because it makes **assumptions**.


I am not trying to say that there isn't a god and or there isn't a greater power. I think it would be impossible and futile to argue that there isn't. I also believe though that it is foolish to make a blanket statement of the same about evolution and the scientific theory of planet building without at least having a basic knowledge of the theories.

I have to side with duke on this one. People if you want to solely follow your religion fine by me but don't come in here and make an uneducated statement about how false it is. Some of us have quite an educational background in this area. This doesn't necessarily make us atheists though.

Mr. Anderson
Dec 5, 2002, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Some of us have quite an educational background in this area. This doesn't necessarily make us atheists though.

I have a few more thoughts on this - and don't flame me if you don't agree with me, I'm not trying to *push* my ideals here.

If you look at the complexity and awesomeness of the universe, especially with what's been seen recently with Hubble and Chandra X-Ray telescopes, I find it hard for someone not to beleive in God. There is a place for religion and science, just keep an open mind and if you get a chance stare at the stars once in a while to feel the wonder.

D

MacBandit
Dec 5, 2002, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by dukestreet


I have a few more thoughts on this - and don't flame me if you don't agree with me, I'm not trying to *push* my ideals here.

If you look at the complexity and awesomeness of the universe, especially with what's been seen recently with Hubble and Chandra X-Ray telescopes, I find it hard for someone not to beleive in God. There is a place for religion and science, just keep an open mind and if you get a chance stare at the stars once in a while to feel the wonder.

D

This is my feeling too. The power of of everything in nature is just awe inspiring. I personally don't believe in a being so much as a power that flows through everything.

maluscanis
Dec 5, 2002, 11:09 PM
Dukestreet,
I understand what you're saying and I think you have valid arguments; however, you missed the idea that i was making (maybe i didn't word it well enough) and it simply was this...we as humans do not have a complete understanding of physics and this should give us pause before we assert facts...I have no problems with scientists giving likely scenarios but proclaiming facts when they are only theories (no matter how good) is poor science. By the way, there are a number of ways to look at strata and no good geologist will proclaim that they can understand or know all the trauma the earth has gone through...there are other scenario's that can account for such things that might differ from the link you posted.
I do marvel at why you think my post was poorly thought out...I am shortly to be pursuing a doctorate degree in Biochemistry and am very very familiar with the theory of evolution (maybe not so much as you are). My points still stand as I see it. Folks just try to keep an open mind about science...there is so much left to learn and our current understanding will no doubt change greatly as we increase in knowledge.

MacBandit
Dec 5, 2002, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by maluscanis
Dukestreet,
I understand what you're saying and I think you have valid arguments; however, you missed the idea that i was making (maybe i didn't word it well enough) and it simply was this...we as humans do not have a complete understanding of physics and this should give us pause before we assert facts...I have no problems with scientists giving likely scenarios but proclaiming facts when they are only theories (no matter how good) is poor science. By the way, there are a number of ways to look at strata and no good geologist will proclaim that they can understand or know all the trauma the earth has gone through...there are other scenario's that can account for such things that might differ from the link you posted.
I do marvel at why you think my post was poorly thought out...I am shortly to be pursuing a doctorate degree in Biochemistry and am very very familiar with the theory of evolution (maybe not so much as you are). My points still stand as I see it. Folks just try to keep an open mind about science...there is so much left to learn and our current understanding will no doubt change greatly as we increase in knowledge.

Thanks for clarifying yourself. Yes, you are correct all the theories are just that, theories. This is because no one was there to watch it happen. I love hearing about knew ideas in science. I keep a very open mind on life in general.

Mr. Anderson
Dec 6, 2002, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by maluscanis
Dukestreet,
I understand what you're saying and I think you have valid arguments; however, you missed the idea that i was making (maybe i didn't word it well enough) and it simply was this...we as humans do not have a complete understanding of physics and this should give us pause before we assert facts...I have no problems with scientists giving likely scenarios but proclaiming facts when they are only theories (no matter how good) is poor science.

Very true, I think there was a bit of a misunderstanding then. I have had discussions, face to face, with people who are creationist and it can be very frustrating at times and maybe I jumped the gun and thought this was the route the thread was taking after skywalkers comment. Sorry. I have an open mind and have no problem with people voicing their opinions, but at least back it up with something.

After spending some time in the field looking at rock strata you can *feel* the age of the rock, and that's why I brought up the Grand Canyon, it truly is a very hard thing to grasp, even with all that history right in front of you.

D