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View Full Version : Apple putting me in a bad situation for laptops


lasuther
Sep 29, 2005, 10:35 AM
I bought my first Apple about 2 years ago after seeing my friends 17”. I thought OS X was the greatest operating system every built, and I swore I would never buy another Dell again. Unfortunately, my wife and I started to fight over the 12” iBook. I got into World of Warcraft and was using the iBook all the time. No one ever wanted to use my old Dell so I figured I would just by another iBook and solve all of our problems. Apple released iBooks in October and April for the past couple of years, and after the iMac rev B update I had high hopes for an amazing iBook update. Well not only did the iBook update come months late, it wasn’t what I wanted. I really was hoping for a 64MB graphics card. Then I decided I would save up some more money and get a stripped down 15” PowerBook after the update and would surely come at the Paris Expo. Paris came and went with rumors that the eventual PowerBook update was going to be disappointing. Overall, I am very disappointed in Apples current line of portables.

Today I got a company email on our company discount for Dells. Below is a comparison of what I’m looking at.
------------------------
Inspiron 9300 Intel® Pentium® M 17"
1.73 GHz / 2MB Cache / 533MHz FSB
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Memory 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 at 533MHz
Video Card 256MB NVIDA® GeForce™ Go 6800
Hard Drive 60GB 7200 RPM
Wireless and Bluetooth
24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive
Battery 80 WHr

$1906 initial price
($300) instant dell price drop
($609.63) company discount
$59.78 tax
$22 Shipping
$1,078.15 Total
-------------------------
PowerBook G4 17"
1.76 GHz G4 / 512kb L2 Cashe / 167MHz FSB
OS 10.4
Memory 1GB PC2700 Single DDR at 333MHz
Video Card 128MB ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
Hard Drive 80GB 5400 RPM
Wireless and Bluetooth
Superdrive
Battery 58 WHr

$2749
$169.94 tax
$2,918.94 Total

After looking into it, I’m going to be buying a Dell laptop even though I know Apple has a better operating system. The PowerBook is just too expensive for what I can get from Dell. And the Dell much better equipped in comparison. It just makes me said to be in a position where a Dell is the best choice for me. I am now going waiting for a Rev.B intel iBook and hope Apple doesn’t disappoint me again.

And if your company has a Dell EPP plan, check with your HR department for the extra 34% discount going until tomorrow.


lasuther

devilot
Sep 29, 2005, 10:42 AM
Your situation is most unfortunate... But let's not be rash. :p hen I decided I would save up some more money and get a stripped down 15” PowerBook after the update and would surely come at the Paris Expo.Have you considered getting a refurb PB off of Apple's site? You could get a great deal. And if you haven't used a Windows machine as your primary computer in awhile, you might have forgotten what a hassle it can be.

If, however, you really do feel that you have no choice but to settle for the Dell, then I wish you the best. Not everyone can be complacent w/ the way Apple's machines are right now.

eva01
Sep 29, 2005, 10:51 AM
Another person that doesn't know how important OS X is.

I would spend 3,000 on a laptop to get OS X then get a FREE top of the line Dell laptop. No way in hell am i going to use Windows. You can't even give me it.

iSaint
Sep 29, 2005, 11:04 AM
It takes me awhile to remember the problems I had with Windows. I have two Compaq desktops sitting here in pieces because the motherboards just gave up trying to run Windows 2000 and/or XP. Despite every effort to control adware and viruses with the proper software, the harddrives are shot.

I'm not that knowledgable, but I know enough not to go back to Windows after a blissful year with my iBook. Seems your comparisons are close, but still have some differences that affect cost. Like, IT'S a DELL running on WINDOWS! ;) :D

P.S. I agree about the updates, I was hoping for a higher res screen in the iBook. I want a 15" PB, but am wondering if it will be outdated after I buy it.

tekmoe
Sep 29, 2005, 12:37 PM
some people will pay the high price for OS X, other's wont. i myself, will. not only because of OS X but also for the reason that i love the apple hardware.

now, some people downsize Windows to be the worst OS of all OS's. it's really not that bad. if it were, there wouldn't be as many Windows users that there are to this day. yes, compared to OS X, it's a shame...i know this. BUT, please people, Windows is not as bad as you make it to be. it has come a long way, and ANY OS can always use improvements.

i guess i am posting this because i hate it when i see someone knocking on another board member who is griping about the hardware being "outdated", and jump all over them because the board member is going to switch back to Windows. great, let them switch back to Windows. if it makes them happy, so be it.

the point is, we know OS X works for us. if it did not, we would not be using macs. and we also like the hardware. if we did not, again, we would not be using macs. the people that decide they want to use Windows over mac are obviously not as determined as you or i to use OS X. sure, it's our job to help remind them, "hey, mac OS X kicks ass. you know it. i know it. we all know it." but that will not change their mind when they have tunnel vision of the "outdated" hardware they will have to use to run OS X.

my advice: let them go to Windows. it will not hurt you or i. it won't even hurt them. Windows is just another OS. not as good as OS X (opinion of course), but still fully functional.

rant over.

ohcrap
Sep 29, 2005, 12:51 PM
Windows is just another OS.
Simply put, yes, Windows is just another OS. But don't forget that it is one of (if not THE) most malware and security hole ridden OS to ever hit the market.

My advice, if you must go PC, fine. But at least install a nice Linux distro like SuSE 9.1 Pro or something. I just can't understand why anyone would want to run Windows when there are so many security problems to worry about. :rolleyes:

jsw
Sep 29, 2005, 12:57 PM
Good grief, people!

XP is fine. Yes, it's not as great in a lot of ways as Tiger, but this malware/virus/spyware myth/old news has got to stop! Anyone with even a decent capability to use a computer can stop it. My parents, for god's sake, who can't program a VCR, don't have anything on their XP system.

Buy the Dell. It's 1/3 the cost and not 1/3 the features, and feel good about it. If you want OS X, get a 15" PB at ~twice the price.

And FWIW, if you spend $500 on an Apple Select membership, you'll save more than that on a loaded 17" PB.

Edit: and I say this partly because I'm still PO'd at Apple for the crummy screen choices on the PBs (not size but resolution). Everything else is fine, but those screens suck compared to PC offerings.

nutmac
Sep 29, 2005, 12:59 PM
Like others have said, it's all about the experience. That said, I think it is difficult to justify 17" PowerBook's price tag, even at Amazon's more attractive price of $2457.60 ($2699.99 - A9.com's 1.57% discount - $200 mail-in rebate) with free shipping (and no sales tax unless you are in WA).

The question is, do you really need a notebook? 17" notebooks aren't very portable and if it doesn't need to be moved much, perhaps you should consider much more powerful and capable iMac G5. 17" iMac G5 does not cost much more than Dell and it is arguable more powerful.

stonyc
Sep 29, 2005, 01:06 PM
Like others have said, it's all about the experience. That said, I think it is difficult to justify 17" PowerBook's price tag, even at Amazon's more attractive price of $2457.60 ($2699.99 - A9.com's 1.57% discount - $200 mail-in rebate) with free shipping (and no sales tax unless you are in WA).

The question is, do you really need a notebook? 17" notebooks aren't very portable and if it doesn't need to be moved much, perhaps you should consider much more powerful and capable iMac G5. 17" iMac G5 does not cost much more than Dell and it is arguable more powerful.I second that, if portability isn't an issue then I would highly consider an iMac. Or even one of the updated 1.5 mac minis.. I'm pretty tempted myself to get a mini and a nice dell flat panel.

wdlove
Sep 29, 2005, 01:13 PM
You should really consider a refurb first before going with a Dell. There are a lot of good deals. You know that you really want a Mac.

Scottyk9
Sep 29, 2005, 01:36 PM
= Total cost of ownership...

http://securityawareness.blogspot.com/2005/09/mad-as-hell-finale-recommendations-and.html

crees!
Sep 29, 2005, 01:55 PM
And if you haven't used a Windows machine as your primary computer in awhile, you might have forgotten what a hassle it can be.

I can attest to that.

wPod
Sep 29, 2005, 02:39 PM
if you were playing WOW on an old iBook then why do you think you need a 17" PB to play it now?

also consider the portability the dell is a brick. i think the 17" PB is not portable but compared to the 17" dell the PB is actually portable.

just remeber what you are getting yourself into if you get a windows machine. i think you will still be fighting over the iBook if you end up going the dell route.

Koodauw
Sep 29, 2005, 02:42 PM
At those prices, I would go with the Dell as well. Not everyone gets huge discounts like that everyday, and thats the real kicker here. Anyways enjoy the dell, I'm sure you will like it.

GFLPraxis
Sep 29, 2005, 02:45 PM
Buy the Dell. Sell it for more than you bought it for on EBay, advertising it as new, never opened, still in box. Then buy a PowerBook with that money. Problem solved!
:D

jiv3turkey748
Sep 29, 2005, 03:29 PM
if i were you i would wait at least a couple of weeks to see if the powerbooks get updated, and if they dont then i guess you should get the dell, it is a better deal but windows really sux

Yoyodyne
Sep 29, 2005, 07:14 PM
For all that is rational and logical in the world—get the Dell. I agree that members of this board exaggerate XP’s cons and make it sound like a useless piece of software. As long as you aren’t surfing porn sites with Internet Explorer, you rarely get these apocalyptic malware takedowns that people scream murder about. Reading those Dell specs makes me want to cry when I compare it to Apple’s specs. And don’t go preaching build quality advantages, because at this point Apple is no better than Dell. But, macs aren’t meant for power, they’re meant for reliability. At least that’s what I keep telling myself.

jhujhiti
Sep 29, 2005, 09:17 PM
Everyone seems to be focusing on the software side of things. Let's not forget that this, physically, is a *Dell*. I've heard so many horror stories about Dell hardware problems, my head would explode if I tried to even remember all of them. There's nothing wrong with trying to save that money, but keep the engineering in mind as well.

BGil
Sep 29, 2005, 09:54 PM
Everyone seems to be focusing on the software side of things. Let's not forget that this, physically, is a *Dell*. I've heard so many horror stories about Dell hardware problems, my head would explode if I tried to even remember all of them. There's nothing wrong with trying to save that money, but keep the engineering in mind as well.

As if we all haven't heard Apple hardware horror stories as well :rolleyes:

jhujhiti
Sep 29, 2005, 10:14 PM
As if we all haven't heard Apple hardware horror stories as well :rolleyes:

But this is largely a support forum, so I hope your sampling area is much broader than just here. Of course you see more people with problems around here than is an accurate sample of the known universe of Powerbook owners.

barneygumble
Sep 29, 2005, 10:18 PM
Get the dell mate, even OS X is not worth $2000 and anyone who thinks it is is really blind and would buy any tripe they Apple serve at the moment. Do a fresh install of the OS keep it patched and up to date and get a non symantec Security Suite something like McCaffe, oh and enjoy that beast i hope you don't have to move it around much. Keep that baby till Rev B intelbook, which may end up at those specs about 2 yrs :p

And despite what most people think XP SP2 is a pretty good OS, i don't even have antivirus software and it is still good and no viruses.

Dell uses the same hardware as everyone else accpet it, they fail, Apple fail all hardware fails occasionally live with it

Bear
Sep 29, 2005, 10:19 PM
...

And despite what most people think XP SP2 is a pretty good OS, i don't even have antivirus software and it is still good and no viruses.Do you also play with fire?

barneygumble
Sep 29, 2005, 10:20 PM
Do you also play with fire?

Funnily enough all the time :eek: thats what happens when you work in a lab :p

EricNau
Sep 29, 2005, 11:28 PM
Something to keep in mind about the Dell is that Microsoft will be coming out with Windows Vista sometime soon. After that, from my experience, it gets harder and harder to find software for an "outdated" system. And the prices Microsoft has been know to charge for thier OS, I just looked at Circuit City and XP Pro is going for $300- and it's about 4 years old! (Comapred to a brand new OS from apple for $130).
I just switched from Windows to Apple and have never been happier with a computer. You'll waste a lot of time and money bothering with things like viruses, spyware, etc. Is it really worth it? I don't think so, but if you don't mind then the dell is cheaper...

NicP
Sep 29, 2005, 11:49 PM
And despite what most people think XP SP2 is a pretty good OS, i don't even have antivirus software and it is still good and no viruses.

lol

I drive around without seatbelts all the time and i havent had a problem yet! i mean, people that know how to use cars shouldnt need seatbelts! ;)

EricNau
Sep 30, 2005, 12:00 AM
Originally Posted by barneygumble
And despite what most people think XP SP2 is a pretty good OS, i don't even have antivirus software and it is still good and no viruses.

I'll bet you have viruses, you just don't know about them yet. I heard about a study from Somewhere (I think some University) that concluded from the time a Windows computer first went onto the internet, it was an average of 18 minutes before they got thier first virus. This was of course assuming you didn't have any anti-virus software.

paperinacup
Sep 30, 2005, 12:09 AM
I'm in the same position. A fully loaded Dell Inspiron 6000D is looking pretty good compared to the 15" PB.

EricNau
Sep 30, 2005, 12:13 AM
To be honest with everyone, I HATE DELL. I haven't had one myself (so I know I'm going to get a lot of comments back about this), but fact is I've heard too many bad stories about them. Besides, you get what you pay for!

barneygumble
Sep 30, 2005, 12:34 AM
I'll bet you have viruses, you just don't know about them yet. I heard about a study from Somewhere (I think some University) that concluded from the time a Windows computer first went onto the internet, it was an average of 18 minutes before they got thier first virus. This was of course assuming you didn't have any anti-virus software.

Nope regular virus scans, nada, zip, zilch, zero, 0

EricNau
Sep 30, 2005, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by barneygumble
Nope regular virus scans, nada, zip, zilch, zero, 0
How do you scan for viruses without Anit-Virus software?

generik
Sep 30, 2005, 01:21 AM
Another person that doesn't know how important OS X is.

I would spend 3,000 on a laptop to get OS X then get a FREE top of the line Dell laptop. No way in hell am i going to use Windows. You can't even give me it.

Easy for you to say, I do not see you spending 3000 on anyone of the equipment listed in your sig either...

widgetguy
Sep 30, 2005, 01:35 AM
I'll bet you have viruses, you just don't know about them yet. I heard about a study from Somewhere (I think some University) that concluded from the time a Windows computer first went onto the internet, it was an average of 18 minutes before they got thier first virus. This was of course assuming you didn't have any anti-virus software.

lol thast the trusth for real, DON'T GET THE DELL IS BFI TRASH. YOU WILL BE VERY VEYR DISAPPOINTED. Somthing I notice a lot about dell is they advertise the big machines and high speeds and that is the bfi of the food change thaose machines still run like p3 's thats whast so crazy to me DELL IS hHUGE WASTE OF MONEY ANY OF THEM

NicP
Sep 30, 2005, 01:38 AM
To be honest with everyone, I HATE DELL. I haven't had one myself (so I know I'm going to get a lot of comments back about this), but fact is I've heard too many bad stories about them. Besides, you get what you pay for!

i'm reading this on a dell, running ubuntu linux. My family owns 5 dell computers and the only one that has problems is my younger brothers (but thats his fault his ipod is also stuffed as well as most things he owns).

I have no problem with dell, all their stuff ive owned has been reliable, but i never go for the cheap *****! and their support has been great, next business day on site repairs!

Having said that i hate Microsoft and their crappy products!

Bern
Sep 30, 2005, 01:54 AM
I still don't understand why people compare Apple ppc with PC Intel.

If you want a Dell then get one, frankly you couldn't pay me to get a windows machine. Regardless of what some people may claim you will get viruses and you will get spyware on your Dell. Windows is a clanky outdated system, heck MS Windows is screwed or rather "broken" as far as Jim Allchin is concerned. Did you not read the news (http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Computing/Platforms/?article=/Computing/Platforms/News/E5T7U6H8) ?

People talk about Powerbooks being outdated, take a read of that article. :rolleyes:

barneygumble
Sep 30, 2005, 03:11 AM
How do you scan for viruses without Anit-Virus software?

There are other methods :p

mcadam
Sep 30, 2005, 04:29 AM
At mys chool, of architecture, lots of people got dells. Some of them has been really happy about their machines, which have been working without any trouble for years. And others have been drowning in problems. I guess it can go both ways.

What is certain though, is that they weigh a ton compared to the similar Macs. I'm sure that's one of the reasons they are cheap - they just make a big box of plastic and throw everything in there... and I guarantee you that that plastic box is more likely to break than your iBook or Pb.

A

chaosbunny
Sep 30, 2005, 04:59 AM
I'm in the same position. A fully loaded Dell Inspiron 6000D is looking pretty good compared to the 15" PB.

hm, maybe the specs are looking good. but standing around next to each other the pb just looks soooo much more elegant.
:D

matthew24
Sep 30, 2005, 06:17 AM
For those people who think XP is a good (enough) OS:

Microsoft Windows Officially Broken (http://www.smartofficenews.com.au/Computing/Platforms_And_Applications?article=/Computing/Platforms%20And%20Applications/News/E5T7U6H8) :eek: :eek: :eek:

javiercr
Sep 30, 2005, 08:18 AM
if you want to buy a cheap computer buy a cheap computer...

lasuther
Sep 30, 2005, 10:33 AM
Just to clarify things a bit, I do have a Mac already. My iBook is great. I just need a powerful computer to run specific programs. The iBook doesn’t play World of Warcraft very well. Auction House is laggy, and when I get 15 players going in Battle Grounds, it gets real choppy.

After using a laptop, I can’t go back to desktops. I do most of my computing on the couch, bed, and upstairs in my game room. Hauling an iMac to all those places isn’t a good option, but a nice 17” laptop is perfect. It has a big screen but is also portable enough to carry through out the house and on trips.

A 17” PowerBook is just what I need. My problem with it is the price. I understand for the most part Apple can’t do any better with the hardware. The graphics card and processor isn’t going to get any better. So if Apple is going to make midrange computers, why are they charging top dollar? I think the iBooks are very competitive and a great deal. That’s why I own one. They do need standard 5400 RPM drives though. A $400 dell laptop has 5400 RPM hard drives standard. In the last two years the iBook hasn’t seen a big enough improvement for me to spend another $1000.

There all small things Apple can do to the PowerBooks. Apple should have 7200 RPM hard drives standard on all PowerBooks. Also, the top PowerBooks should have 1 Gig of Ram standard. 512MB just isn’t enough for a professional Apple machine. Even with that, the hardware just can’t compare to other manufactures.

If Apple can’t deliver a top of the line laptop, I think they need to stop charging top dollar. Today I can buy a 17” Dell for $1056 with a 7200RPM hard drive, over 3 times the Front Side Bus, 4 times the Cache, and a 256MB GeForce Go 6800 graphics card. And I would still buy the inferior 17” PowerBook at a price point of $2000. That is how much I love OSX. I would spend an extra $1000 for a computer that is clearly weaker just for the operating system. But Apple wants me to spend almost $2000 more. For what??? I can get OSX in an iBook, and I did. All I’m looking for is a powerful computer to run specific programs. While a $3000 PowerBook will do the job, a $1050 Dell will do the job better. That is just too much of a price difference for me to ignore.

I expect to pay a premium for Apples, and I will gladly do so. I just think the entire PowerBook line is way off base in pricing. Apple needs to bump up the hardware they can control like hard drives and RAM, and low the price a bit. Just my opinion.

lasuther

lasuther
Sep 30, 2005, 10:36 AM
if you want to buy a cheap computer buy a cheap computer...

I'm not looking for a cheap computer, I'm looking for a powerful one.

Verto
Sep 30, 2005, 10:36 AM
I would check out Toshiba laptops, instead of Dells: great quality, great reputation. If you want to stick to OS X, get an iBook or just hold off for the day the PowerBook's receive an upgrade to make them worthy of the price tag.

And again, Toshiba over Dell! Great laptops, generally ranked 2nd only to IBM.

wongulous
Sep 30, 2005, 04:39 PM
Well, just because your company gives you $900+ in discounts on Dells doesn't make Dells a better value. Plus, you're buying the top of the line PowerBook--of course it's at a premium. Dell is not a "premium" brand. Besides, you could knock $400 off the price by getting the RAM on the side and installing it (easily) yourself. Then, there's the value of having a design marvel, the PowerBook G4, with the world's most elegantly designed operating system, versus a cheapy plastic ugly Dell with ****** WinXP.

You could buy a refurb PB 12" right now for $1299 or an iBook for as low as $699-1099. iMac G5s are as low as $999 refurb, with a 20" for $1349. Or you could buy a ****** laptop and give it to the missus and keep your iBook and keep saving until you can afford a nice 12-15-17" PB.

Anyway, I hope it's working out well for you.

zap2
Sep 30, 2005, 04:48 PM
juts get the Apple OSX its that simple if i had XP laptop i would seller off for a Mac

Peter Griffin
Oct 1, 2005, 05:45 AM
Dude, you should get the Dell...

But seriously, that's a killer deal even if you have to run it on XP. In my humble opinion, XP isn't all that dreadful if you exercise a bit of common sense and browse w/ FF over IE, run spyware programs, etc. Ofcourse you'll be missing out on OSX, but you save 2k. The equivalent of that in the Mac world is the stock iBook.

Peter Griffin
Oct 1, 2005, 05:54 AM
For those people who think XP is a good (enough) OS:

Microsoft Windows Officially Broken (http://www.smartofficenews.com.au/Computing/Platforms_And_Applications?article=/Computing/Platforms%20And%20Applications/News/E5T7U6H8) :eek: :eek: :eek:

WINFS sounds a lot like Spotlight

Deepdale
Oct 1, 2005, 06:36 AM
So if Apple is going to make midrange computers, why are they charging top dollar ... If Apple can’t deliver a top of the line laptop, I think they need to stop charging top dollar. ... But Apple wants me to spend almost $2000 more. For what??? I can get OSX in an iBook, and I did. lasuther

Very good points in your post. Apple charges what they do for their so-called professional lines because their small but ultraloyal base of followers allows them to.

Are they in desperate need of a reality check? Yes.
Will it happen anytime soon? Doubtful.
Will loyalists snap up anything with Apple on it? Sure.

MrSugar
Oct 1, 2005, 06:40 AM
I never understood why people compared Apple's laptops to anything, the fact is, there is no comparison to be made.

People talk about how great of a deal some HP or Dell is and how they are going to save so much money. The sad thing is, in a few months they will be carrying around a huge plastic notebook computer. It will be thick, clunky, and frustrating to use. It won't be as portable, it won't run OS X, and it won't feel good to use.

When I sit down and use my powerbook I enjoy the experience, it feels good. The OS runs perfect, the computer acts perfect, and I stay happy.

I have used well over a hundred PC laptops, and the only ones that come close to Apple's are the IBM Thinkpads. Oh but wait, those are more expensive than Apple's laptops... so much for that idea.

No laptop on the market can match the size, portability, sleekness, and comfort of a powerbook.

Some laptops may be powerful, some may be low cost, and some may look good, but no single one has it all.

The only choice for a perfect all around laptop computer is Apple. If you think different, spend the money on a Dell and suffer. I have never known anyone who bought an Apple laptop to ever regret their decision. There is just no other way to put it.

DJMad
Oct 1, 2005, 06:48 AM
if you were playing WOW on an old iBook then why do you think you need a 17" PB to play it now?

He just made it to lvl 60 and is now running MC, BWL, and ZG. I had no problems with WoW till I started running the larger instances. With my 1ghz tibook with 1gig ram, I am happy to get 5fps in any 40 person raid.

But then again I play a pally, so a drop in frame rate can really screw up my shield hearth.

ohcrap
Oct 1, 2005, 08:41 AM
I have never known anyone who bought an Apple laptop to ever regret their decision. There is just no other way to put it.
That's really the bottom line, and the point that anyone who thinks us "loyalists" need a reality check should take into consideration.

BornAgainMac
Oct 1, 2005, 09:01 AM
Probably another 6 more months of these kinds of topics.

Arcus
Oct 1, 2005, 01:08 PM
First I want to say I am a Mac guy...

I am also a Linux guy

I am also a Windows guy..

BSD isnt bad either...


What I'm always surprised at is the amount of people who have problems with Windows and have said as much in this thread. I have four in my household alone and have absolutely zero problems. Just as anything in this world if you dont take care of it and treat it right it will fail.

Its just amazing to me to see how many people will try to remind people of the 'problems they have with Windows'. I guess I just dont see that many.

Aside from a packard bell I bought back in 95 that came with a burned out com port and an emachines that had a bad power supply the only other computer that I have bought that had a hardware failure was my iBook. Yes, apple handled it VERY well and I got a factory installed bigger hard drive for no cost to me.

Flame away....

nylon
Oct 1, 2005, 01:41 PM
As much as I am a fan of Apple, I think Thinkpads have the best build quality of all notebooks and carry the best warranty and service/support. Additionally, they are not as expensive as Powerbooks as some have suggested.

At this stage I would choose a PC laptop over a mac laptop, despite the fact that I hate Windows. The tech in Powerbooks is just too far behind the current PC laptop offerings, especially given the price.

Having said that, I'm hopping on the new Intel powerbooks as soon as they are released.

Mikael
Oct 2, 2005, 03:15 PM
I've got to argree with Arcus on this one. I have used Windows, in various incarnations, for the past eight years without using an anti virus program. I have gotten one virus in that time and that was the dreaded Blaster worm. I plugged the security hole with a patch, removed the worm and have had zero problems since.

Here are three simple things to think about:

- Don't download software from unknown/shady sources. Stay off DC and the likes. I know this may be hard for the software pirates out there, but what can I say? Buy your software instead.

- Don't go all crazy with the porn surfing. Just stick to larger, more reputable sites and stay off all these TGP sites and what not. There's mostly no content on those sites anyway (just links, links, links)... :D

- Use Firefox or another third party browser. Simply dump IE.

If you aren't a software pirate, don't fancy shady porn sites and can accept an alternative browser, these things shouldn't be a problem.

So, what do you gain by following these things? Well, as I said earlier, I have pretty much zero problems with viruses. Blaster is the only one since '96-'97 something. I haven't gotten ANY spyware since I got Firefox (yes, I surf porn sites too, but not the shadiest ones...).

To top this off, I can also say that my XP installation simply never crashes. I have used WindowsXP on several home machines since it was released and to be completely honest I don't think I have had one crash that wasn't caused by my own overclocking of the hardware.

The three office machines at our business has clocked in approximately 20 000 hours without any crashes. They are not maintained either. They just work. I have never defragged them or done any other maintenance on them and they've been running for years. Despite this, the systems work extremely well.

Having had no stability issues with any of my machines, I can only conclude that WindowsXP as an OS is very stable. It is the malware/spyware etc. that causes instability if there is any and the solution really is as simple as the three points I outlined above.

I know that a lot of people do have problems with WindowsXP. What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't take a genius or a total computer wiz to run WindowsXP succesfully. Here we have a guy that can save $2000 on getting a much faster machine from Dell. Sure, he will have to put up with a less streamlined and well thought out user interface/experience. BUT he doesn't have to experience all the horror stories you are telling and he doesn't even need antivirus/spyware software to prevent it.

I know some of you still probably think I'm pulling this out of my a$$. Just trust me when I say that me and my business are far too dependent on well functioning computers to put up with the horrors you're describing. I spend close to zero time on maintaining my computers, just as it should be. Windows may not provide the best user experience around, but it does work and it works well.

I also realise that this post will brand me as a PC/Windows fanboy, but I don't care. I like PCs, I like Macs. This post is not one versus the other. I just get sick and tired of reading about how a computer with Windows is pretty much useless.

EricNau
Oct 2, 2005, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Mikael
I've got to argree with Arcus on this one. I have used Windows, in various incarnations, for the past eight years without using an anti virus program. I have gotten one virus in that time and that was the dreaded Blaster worm. I plugged the security hole with a patch, removed the worm and have had zero problems since.

Here are three simple things to think about:

- Don't download software from unknown/shady sources. Stay off DC and the likes. I know this may be hard for the software pirates out there, but what can I say? Buy your software instead.

- Don't go all crazy with the porn surfing. Just stick to larger, more reputable sites and stay off all these TGP sites and what not. There's mostly no content on those sites anyway (just links, links, links)...

- Use Firefox or another third party browser. Simply dump IE.

If you aren't a software pirate, don't fancy shady porn sites and can accept an alternative browser, these things shouldn't be a problem.

So, what do you gain by following these things? Well, as I said earlier, I have pretty much zero problems with viruses. Blaster is the only one since '96-'97 something. I haven't gotten ANY spyware since I got Firefox (yes, I surf porn sites too, but not the shadiest ones...).

To top this off, I can also say that my XP installation simply never crashes. I have used WindowsXP on several home machines since it was released and to be completely honest I don't think I have had one crash that wasn't caused by my own overclocking of the hardware.

The three office machines at our business has clocked in approximately 20 000 hours without any crashes. They are not maintained either. They just work. I have never defragged them or done any other maintenance on them and they've been running for years. Despite this, the systems work extremely well.

Having had no stability issues with any of my machines, I can only conclude that WindowsXP as an OS is very stable. It is the malware/spyware etc. that causes instability if there is any and the solution really is as simple as the three points I outlined above.

I know that a lot of people do have problems with WindowsXP. What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't take a genius or a total computer wiz to run WindowsXP succesfully. Here we have a guy that can save $2000 on getting a much faster machine from Dell. Sure, he will have to put up with a less streamlined and well thought out user interface/experience. BUT he doesn't have to experience all the horror stories you are telling and he doesn't even need antivirus/spyware software to prevent it.

I know some of you still probably think I'm pulling this out of my a$$. Just trust me when I say that me and my business are far too dependent on well functioning computers to put up with the horrors you're describing. I spend close to zero time on maintaining my computers, just as it should be. Windows may not provide the best user experience around, but it does work and it works well.

I also realise that this post will brand me as a PC/Windows fanboy, but I don't care. I like PCs, I like Macs. This post is not one versus the other. I just get sick and tired of reading about how a computer with Windows is pretty much useless.
Then you are one of the lucky Windows users. I had virus protection and stuck to those rules you mentioned (actually mine were a little stricter) and had my Windows computer crash on me several times. By the Way, I had an up-to-date virus protection program (McAfee) and it didn't help. Wether or not it was a virus or not, I don't know, but then it's just Windows fault.

Nereus
Oct 2, 2005, 04:23 PM
Then you are one of the lucky Windows users. I had virus protection and stuck to those rules you mentioned (actually mine were a little stricter) and had my Windows computer crash on me several times. By the Way, I had an up-to-date virus protection program (McAfee) and it didn't help. Wether or not it was a virus or not, I don't know, but then it's just Windows fault.

I must be one lucky Windows user as well. I had never had any serious issues with my Windows computer, but I'm switching soon (whenever Apple releases the new PBs) and I'm looking forward to it. Now I will finally get a computer that doesn't require me to upgrade my soundcard driver just to make it work. And what the hell is a PCI-conflict anyway? I think the user shouldn't be bothered by issues like that. If you want options get a PC, if you want a troublefree working enviroment get a Mac.

ohcrap
Oct 2, 2005, 04:43 PM
McAfee is terrible, download AVG Free Edition. Run Firefox with cookies disabled (and an exceptions list of course), and stay up to date with Windows Updates, you should be in good shape 99% of the time.

I'm one of the "lucky" Windows users as well, apparently.

leekohler
Oct 2, 2005, 06:11 PM
Having switched myself and gotten others to switch, I don't know why you would buy the Dell. My most recent switcher said he'll never go near Windows again and laments not switching sooner. That pretty much says it all in my book. I begged my mom to switch recently as she's always calling me with problems with Windows. What did she do? Bought another Windows machine. Guess what? She still calls with problems.

ohcrap
Oct 2, 2005, 06:26 PM
I know what you mean, leekohler. My mother's PC is about done for. I came to fix it and it was so far gone that I had to access the Recovery Console so that I could disable a few stalled services JUST so I could get into Safe Mode and begin fixing...

...turns out she doesn't have a clue what her admin password is, so no RC, no Safe Mode, no fix yet.

But, on the brighter side, she is buying a brand new iMac G5 in January thanks to my prodding. :D

KittenKrusher
Oct 2, 2005, 06:45 PM
I guess it all boils down too if you know what your doing security wise, Windows can be a great OS. If you don't (such as all your mother's that you guys are complaining about) then windows is pretty much a death trap.

Sedulous
Oct 2, 2005, 08:17 PM
I am in the same position. Shortly, I will be beaving for school (overseas) and do not currently have a reliable notebook. Yet, I cannot bring myself to dump $3K on a powerbook that is screaming for updates. Only option I am currently considering (besides waiting) is picking up a low end iBook for now.

stefan15
Oct 2, 2005, 08:33 PM
Inspiron 9300 Intel® Pentium® M 17"
$1,078.15 Total
-------------------------
PowerBook G4 17"
$2,918.94 Total


I had to register for this forum just to comment on this post. To the less-hardcore Apple enthusiasts, you'd be insane to pick the G4 over the Dell. $1900 difference! (Naturally I'm sure the true enthusiasts don't look at the price tag--but I'm a student here) Sure Windows is insecure, but so what. I agree Mac OS is by far superior, but I don't mind running AV software with a small memory footprint. I'd be ignoring what OS I was using if it was a $1900 difference and purchasing a notebook was a necessity.

I am really looking to buy a Powerbook myself (would be my first Mac, and they are awesome machines--also explaining why I only recently registered here) but it's really hard to justify it with that sort of price. That said, I hear there is going to be a little update to the G4 books by the end of the month. Either way, no DDR2, no 64-bit.

lasuther, go with the Dell!

biohazard6969
Oct 2, 2005, 09:36 PM
ok, i've had mac's all my life, everyone in my family has had a mac and they've all loved them. but now it seems that we're making a transition AWAY from apple. my brother recently got a new sony vaio desktop, he loves it, I love it too....there is also a dell inspiron notebook in the house now too. and just this afternoon i bought a souped up gaming pc. personally i don't see what the big deal against windows is. it works fine for me, theres just some things that OS X has that it doesn't and most of them are minor (to me at least) and lets be honest, no one wants both OS's to become one in the same. i would have bought a powermac were it not so F*&#ING EXPENSIVE, and since i'll basicly only b4e using it for games i won't have to deal with the windows GUI very much. the only thing i'm worried about is viruses, but even so i've never had any trouble with the current windows boxes so i'm not overly worried.

it seems that the main beef for would-be switchers, mac owners alike would be apple's pricing, they are way too overpriced and to spend an extra $1K on the operrating system (or so it would seem) is completely absurd, anyone who does this is downright insane because no matter which way you look at it, it just can't be worth it unless you have that kind of money to throw around.

i certainly hope apple get's its act together soon and hopefully with the new intel machines we will see some sort of price drop. if not, then the odds of me remaining with apple are geting slimmer with every passing day