How much longer can Apple spounge off the outdated PB line?

[CuriousG]

How much longer do you think Apple will spounge of the sales of the outdated PB line? I personally feel that Apple has really dropped the ball as far as the PB line is concerned. Normally I wouldnt rate a PB as anything other than a great investment but right now as it stands the PB line is light years behind the high end pro series PC laptops. And has been now for sometime. Personally I just dont get it and as far as defending apple on this one...I dont think there is much of a defense considering people are already spending $1k more for an inferior laptop. :mad:

[alex_ant]

They'll do it as long as they want, I guess. I'm sure they are making major investments in the Powerbooks, but do not want to waste money making major updates/changes to an end-of-life PowerPC platform.

[Demon Hunter]

I've argued that logic before, but what it really comes down to is this: design is one of the founding tenets of Apple. The second, in my opinion, is ease-of-use. The third is powerful technology for everyone. The last of these is key: for the majority of people, the PowerBook does exactly what it was meant to do. Kick some ass, take names, and look good doing it.

What really is lacking? We all know that the G4 is an old chip. But it's also stood the test of time, which is an enormous feat for any technology, much less the short-lived processor.

They'll do it as long as they want, I guess. I'm sure they are making major investments in the Powerbooks, but do not want to waste money making major updates/changes to an end-of-life PowerPC platform.

I think you're right. If Apple had stayed with Freescale they would have redesigned the 'Books for the G4+. The new G4s have "evolved" and require a complete overhaul. Yes, the Pentium M performs better in some areas, but I would hardly say the G4 is that far behind.

The mobility 9700 is still a very good chipset and does its job: low heat, low profile. Storage continues to increase. Resolution is excellent for most folks (if you really want 1900x1200 on a 12" screen, then a PC with Microsoft DestroyYourVision™ 2005 is probably a better choice). What else? USB ports? Please. We have sweet keyboard lights and trackpads, FireWire 800, Bluetooth 2.0... I guess I'm just not seeing your logic here.

And back to the "design" tenet... if Apple must sacrifice some fraction of speed and power for design, so be it. That's the way it is and always has been.

I challenge you to show us a PC laptop that exceeds the PowerBook feature-set, while maintaining good design principles. I doubt you can find one less than 1" thick with a 17" screen. :p Not to mention Mac OS X and all the other reasons we prefer Mac.

Also: the PowerBook is a premium computer. If you don't really care to pay extra for an aluminum finish, get an iBook! Or don't get the Saab with turbo and fog lights, etc.

[CanadaRAM]

Spounge?

Spousal Mange?

Spooky Grunge?

[Lacero]

I personally feel that Apple has really dropped the ball as far as the PB line is concerned.They dropped the ball when they went with PPC and Motorola. :p

Apple can't do much if the primary supplier of chips can't turn a profit selling chips to a miniscule PC market. That's why we are all waiting for intel laptops. Apple isn't sitting on their butts trying to sponge off consumers. Although one could argue for massive price cuts. But why such a negative view?

[Bern]

Out dated by what standard and for use with which particular software?

[Verto]

What really is lacking?

Performance worthy of the 2000$ price tag ?

[Chrispy]

I am one that loves to complain about the powerbooks needing an update with fellow mac users but really... when you think about it... the G4 processor really has lasted a long time. The fact I can even play Unreal Tournament 2004 at all on a 12" powerbook Rev. D says a lot! Yes, Apple needs to update the powerbook line but when you really think about it, it is amazing that they are still decent machines with the age of the technology being used to power them.

[eva01]

Out dated by what standard and for use with which particular software?

exactly there is very few software out there that can't run on the Powerbooks that are out there now.

FCP can run on it, MS Office, iWork, PS, etc. etc.

I have no problems at all, if you have a certain program you can't run on a powerbook then more than likely you need a powermac. That is why i have my powermac so it can run software that is too robust for the powerbook, like Motion

[Bern]

Performance worthy of the 2000$ price tag ?

Have you seen a pc laptop built to the same quality as the Powerbook? You can either buy a Ferrari or a Toyota, both will get you around.

[eflaten]

Performance worthy of the 2000$ price tag ?

Exactly. The progress on the powerbook has been anemic since the aluminium switch. 2 years ago. But because the OS i stick to it. OR the iBook.

[jaw04005]

I have a 1.33Ghz PowerBook G4 with 1.2GB of Ram and 80GB 5400RPM hard drive, and the iLife 05 suite runs like a dog. iPhoto barely can handle the 1500 images I have loaded in my library. iMovie's effect rendering takes forever. Garageband chokes when using over four instruments. iDVD's multiplexing takes sometimes hours.

Visual effects in Tiger are usually jagged (Dashboard/Expose). It also takes quite a while to process a RAW file from my Canon Digital Rebel.

So yeah, I would say to run BASIC consumer Apple software... the PowerBook 12" is lacking. I highly doubt the 1.5Ghz 12" is much better.

Not to mention the AL PowerBook line is easily dented. Bring on the Intel PowerBooks!

[rosalindavenue]

I have a 1.33Ghz PowerBook G4 with 1.2GB of Ram and 80GB 5400RPM hard drive, and the iLife 05 suite runs like a dog. iPhoto barely can handle the 1500 images I have loaded in my library. i

That seems odd to me-- my rev. D 1.33 Ghz ibook with stock (512) ram handles 1500+ images very well-- it beachballs a little when it opens, but has no problems thereafter.

[Chrispy]

I have a 1.33Ghz PowerBook G4 with 1.2GB of Ram and 80GB 5400RPM hard drive, and the iLife 05 suite runs like a dog. iPhoto barely can handle the 1500 images I have loaded in my library. iMovie's effect rendering takes forever. Garageband chokes when using over four instruments. iDVD's multiplexing takes sometimes hours.

Visual effects in Tiger are usually jagged (Dashboard/Expose). It also takes quite a while to process a RAW file from my Canon Digital Rebel.

So yeah, I would say to run BASIC consumer Apple software... the PowerBook 12" is lacking. I highly doubt the 1.5Ghz 12" is much better.

Not to mention the AL PowerBook line is easily dented. Bring on the Intel PowerBooks!

I agree that iMovie takes FOREVER to render video and iDVD takes even more FOREVER haha. When the Intel books come out with faster processors and a faster system bus things will surely be much better :)

[Earendil]

I have a 1.33Ghz PowerBook G4 with 1.2GB of Ram and 80GB 5400RPM hard drive, and the iLife 05 suite runs like a dog. iPhoto barely can handle the 1500 images I have loaded in my library. iMovie's effect rendering takes forever. Garageband chokes when using over four instruments. iDVD's multiplexing takes sometimes hours.

Visual effects in Tiger are usually jagged (Dashboard/Expose). It also takes quite a while to process a RAW file from my Canon Digital Rebel.

So yeah, I would say to run BASIC consumer Apple software... the PowerBook 12" is lacking. I highly doubt the 1.5Ghz 12" is much better.

Not to mention the AL PowerBook line is easily dented. Bring on the Intel PowerBooks!

Most of what you mention won't be cured with today's Pentium M chips. If you think any of those operations are going to me split second on even a maxed G5 or Xeon machine, you are mistaken.
All except for Expose/Dashboard, which I run flawlessly without delay and jaggedness on a 1.25G4 15" PB Alum, with 64mb VRAM, 1.2 mb RAM and with a second 20" external display. So I don't know, perhaps you system has some issues outside of the proc.

Are the G4 Procs the best out there? Heel no. Are they Dogs that lag behind everything? Heel NO. G4 chips still handle graphics exceedingly well, and contrary to popular belief, handle everything just as well as they did 2 years ago :eek: :rolleyes:

And who in there right mind edits video on a Laptop and complains when it's slow? Show me a none desktop replacement on the Windows side that edits video with any amount of what could be called "speed", please, I beg you.

[Dagless]

I'd say that now the PowerBooks are probably feel their age. but as soon as the Intel chips are out these things will be so far ahead of windows laptops it wont be funny. The PowerBooks have lost their crown for now, but it wont be long before they are king again.

[iQuit]

I am almost certain a 3 GHz Dell Laptop can handle some video editing....and many other laptops...battery is not a main issue for me with such a powerful laptop like that.

[MacPassion]

I have a 6 month old HP laptop that I really look forward to sell to switch to a PB....and I got already few very interesting offers that I had to decline....why? bc I'm really not willing to give Apple my savings for a machine that is 8 month old and now overpriced. I'm so tired of checking every day (or hours for an update that is not coming...and maybe will never come in the near future...so disappointing....

[drake]

One word, Thinkpad + OS X. Okay, two words. :p

[Earendil]

I am almost certain a 3 GHz Dell Laptop can handle some video editing....and many other laptops...battery is not a main issue for me with such a powerful laptop like that.

I'm almost certain that any desktop replacement could beat any Apple powerbook at any time in its life span. Why? Because Powerbooks aren't desktop replacements, they are only 1" thin! :p

And I'm sure there are high end Windows Notebooks that can do video editing. Much faster than a 1.6 G4? doubtful.
And in my own experience, with a few runs of my PB (with 512mb ram) vs my friends 2.8P4 notebook, I smoked him in most PS filter tests. Out of 10 he only beat me in 1, and by a small margin. In the end though, I have a small, light, sexy beast of a laptop that still holds it's own in all the PS work I do, as is practical as a LAPTOP. If you don't need a laptop, then go spend 2.5 G's on a duel 2.5 G5 ;)

~Earendil

[Jedi128]

I think that the G4's in the PB's are getting slower... Thats why Apple switched to inteleron. The switch will fix the current problem. It just happens that untill mid-06 I wouldnt drop $2000ish for a G4 processor.... I would rather wait until inteleron comes around and helps the books out.

Apple is trying to hide this fact as anyone in their shoes would. I think they offer plently of other things in a PB (thinner than competition, OS X!, SMS, looks way better than any other laptop ever made(except maybe iBooks) OS X, oh wait I said that already...), and that is why people are still buying them.

[zap2]

One word, Thinkpad + OS X. Okay, two words. :p


think (1) pad(2) plus (3) Operating(4) System(5) ten(6)




i count 6 :p ;)

[bryanc]

One word, Thinkpad + OS X. Okay, two words. :p

That's exactly what I'm going to do if the PowerBook isn't updated in October.

It's not that the G4 is that slow... it's the FSB that's the biggest bottleneck (167 MHz in the current Powerbooks, vs. 533 MHz in the Thinkpad). The fact that the GPU is an antique and the monitor is pathetic doesn't help the Powerbook either.

With the Freescale 7448 being a pin-for-pin compatible drop-in replacement for the existing G4 (available since February), but one with a faster FSB, lower power consumption and higher clockspeed, I simply can't understand why Apple hasn't done this. I mean, sure, their attention has been elsewhere with the upcoming Macintels and all, but really, this is a desperately needed band-aid to see the Powerbook line through to next year.

Drop in the 7448, upgrade to an ATi Mobility 9800 with 128 Mb, put in a 7200rpm 100 Gb drive and you've got a Powerbook that isn't a joke. More importantly, that's a Powerbook I, and many others, would buy without hesitation.

Cheers

[Verto]

Have you seen a pc laptop built to the same quality as the Powerbook? You can either buy a Ferrari or a Toyota, both will get you around.

Your comparison falls short, since PowerBooks != Ferrari speed, only Ferarri price.

[leachy]

The issue with the PB line is not their relative specs when compared to a PC, you're not comparing like to like. As a recent switcher to Mac I never made this comparison, I wanted an Apple laptop so why bother looking at something that didn't match my criteria. The fact is that the PowerBooks are more than adequate for almost all OSX software.

Where the PB line does suffer is the price comparison with the iBook and it was this that made me choose an iBook - loving it by the way. In the end I would have been paying £500 more for very little performance or feature benefit had I got a PB. It wasn't justifiable for an aluminium shell and backlit keyboard and instead I bought the iBook and took the saving and got myself a Mini as well.

[Bern]

Your comparison falls short, since PowerBooks != Ferrari speed, only Ferarri price.

Duh! I was talking quality, but hey let 'em have their pc laptops. They won't run Vista anyway. You know that OS which was confessed to be "broken" as Jim Allchin put it to Bill gates the other day.

[edwin.bossier]

And who in there right mind edits video on a Laptop and complains when it's slow? Show me a none desktop replacement on the Windows side that edits video with any amount of what could be called "speed", please, I beg you.

I use a P4/3Ghz HyperThreading Laptop to edit video using 'heavy' Premiere Pro 1.5. Works pretty fine for me, speed is more than OK, surely lots and lots faster than using iMovie on my G4/500Mhz.

[Palad1]

You can't seriously compare a 3Ghz pentium and a 500 mhz G4.

Besides the bottleneck is rather the hard drive than the cpu. Most people I met who complain that iMovie is too slow often run it on the system disk. (4200 rpm)

[RedTomato]

I think that the G4's in the PB's are getting slower..

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Your G4 chip's getting slower? Return your laptop to Apple immediately, there's something seriously wrong with it!

:eek: :eek: :eek:

My PB's just as fast as the day I brought it. :rolleyes:

xoxo RedTomato

[javiercr]

Your comparison falls short, since PowerBooks != Ferrari speed, only Ferarri price.

R&R speed (relatively slow) and high price vs Subaru/Toyota relatively low price and high speed

[Verto]

Duh! I was talking quality, but hey let 'em have their pc laptops. They won't run Vista anyway. You know that OS which was confessed to be "broken" as Jim Allchin put it to Bill gates the other day.

Yes, I'm well aware of Vista's supposed inability to run on computers, just not sure how this relates to Apple charging 2000$ for outdated technology. Sure, the PowerBook can handle everything you want it to; that doesn't change anything, since you could buy a PC laptop that could do all that and more, and still cost less. Of course, the only people I can see buying the PowerBook right now are those who think that OS X and the Apple logo are worth the extra 500-1000$. The least they could do for people who are spending nearly 2,000$ on that laptop is provide them with 1GB of RAM, like Toshiba does, or a 100G hard drive, like Toshiba does, or a DVD burner or TV tuner like Toshiba does, all while coming in 100$ cheaper than the 15'' PowerBook. Just for kicks, to BTO a PowerBook with similar specs from their website, you would end up paying 2,400$, since Apple charges exorbitant fees for all those configurable components.

[widgetguy]

I have a 1.33Ghz PowerBook G4 with 1.2GB of Ram and 80GB 5400RPM hard drive, and the iLife 05 suite runs like a dog. iPhoto barely can handle the 1500 images I have loaded in my library. iMovie's effect rendering takes forever. Garageband chokes when using over four instruments. iDVD's multiplexing takes sometimes hours.

Visual effects in Tiger are usually jagged (Dashboard/Expose). It also takes quite a while to process a RAW file from my Canon Digital Rebel.

So yeah, I would say to run BASIC consumer Apple software... the PowerBook 12" is lacking. I highly doubt the 1.5Ghz 12" is much better.

Not to mention the AL PowerBook line is easily dented. Bring on the Intel PowerBooks!

sounds like you got a bad tasste of powerbook flu, naw i had the same problems with my 12 13..ghz after took forever to render and i had about 2000 images in my iphoto took a long long time to process anything

[lasuther]

Performance worthy of the 2000$ price tag ?


I would pay $2000 for a 17" PowerBook with 1 Gig of RAM and a 7200RPM Hard Drive. I won't pay $3000, which is what Apple wants me to pay. And PC buyers get that at $1500.

lasuther

[Verto]

I would pay $2000 for a 17" PowerBook with 1 Gig of RAM and a 7200RPM Hard Drive. I won't pay $3000, which is what Apple wants me to pay. And PC buyers get that at $1500.

lasuther

2000 was my compromise between the starting price of 1500$ and ending price of 2700.

[dejo]

I would pay $2000 for a 17" PowerBook with 1 Gig of RAM and a 7200RPM Hard Drive. I won't pay $3000, which is what Apple wants me to pay. And PC buyers get that at $1500.

So, all you have to do is claim you're a "PC buyer" and you can get the 17" PowerBook with 1GB RAM and 7200RPM HD for $1500? Count me in! ;)

[TrumanApple]

Have you seen a pc laptop built to the same quality as the Powerbook? You can either buy a Ferrari or a Toyota, both will get you around.

I know the fararri looks better... but when the toyota is outperforming the ferrari in speed tests at a fraction of the price... it seems that the choice becomes much more interesting...

[CuriousG]

I guess with this recent update on Thinksecret site about the Mac Mini updates clearly shows just how considerate Apple is to their potential buyers rather than money in their pockets....fat chance of that. So I guess it is professional to lure people in to buying a computer from Apple by making it a crap shoot on what you get? How lame is this move Apple?

Sources have informed Think Secret that Mac mini box labels will continue to list the older specifications with no indication of whether the newer or older systems are contained within. The motivation behind this is to help clear current inventory without lowering prices. Essentially, customers are promised that the Mac mini they purchase will have specifications "at least" equal to the label, but that their system may exceed those. Customers who purchase a new Mac mini to find they ended up with the older configuration will not be able to return the system in the hopes of getting the newer configuration without paying a restocking fee.

[floyde]

I guess with this recent update on Thinksecret site about the Mac Mini updates clearly shows just how considerate Apple is to their potential buyers rather than money in their pockets....fat chance of that. So I guess it is professional to lure people in to buying a computer from Apple by making it a crap shoot on what you get? How lame is this move Apple?

I don't see a problem with that move. If you see a Mac Mini that's 1.25Ghz, for example, you buy it at the price of a 1.25Ghz machine and you might actually get a 1.42Ghz. It's not a craphsoot since you know you are getting (at least) 1.25Ghz and that is exactly what you are paying for. It's like buying a cereal box that can win you a trip to Hawaii. Sure, it'd be cool if everyone could win the trip, but all you really paid for was the cereal ;) .

Anyway, there is an old saying in these forums which is: "get the Dell since you are here asking". And that is really all there is to it. If you are not satisfied with the current PB line, don't get one. But I know you realize that the PB is still much better than its PC equivalents otherwise this subject wouldn't be the cause of so much frustration for you.

[Bern]

Yes, I'm well aware of Vista's supposed inability to run on computers, just not sure how this relates to Apple charging 2000$ for outdated technology. Sure, the PowerBook can handle everything you want it to; that doesn't change anything, since you could buy a PC laptop that could do all that and more, and still cost less. Of course, the only people I can see buying the PowerBook right now are those who think that OS X and the Apple logo are worth the extra 500-1000$. The least they could do for people who are spending nearly 2,000$ on that laptop is provide them with 1GB of RAM, like Toshiba does, or a 100G hard drive, like Toshiba does, or a DVD burner or TV tuner like Toshiba does, all while coming in 100$ cheaper than the 15'' PowerBook. Just for kicks, to BTO a PowerBook with similar specs from their website, you would end up paying 2,400$, since Apple charges exorbitant fees for all those configurable components.

Well ... if Vista won't run on any current pc laptop than that makes what is out there outdated by those standards of that OS.

You may argue that Vista isn't released yet so therefore pc laptops are not outdated, well Mactels aren't released yet either and the current line of powerbooks do what they are meant to do extremely well.

Perhaps you should buy a Toshiba? At the end of the day you get what you pay for. Some people will never be satisfied and no doubt when Mactels are released those complaining about the current line of Powerbooks will be complaining about the Mactels.

[generik]

With the Freescale 7448 being a pin-for-pin compatible drop-in replacement for the existing G4 (available since February), but one with a faster FSB, lower power consumption and higher clockspeed, I simply can't understand why Apple hasn't done this. I mean, sure, their attention has been elsewhere with the upcoming Macintels and all, but really, this is a desperately needed band-aid to see the Powerbook line through to next year.


Yes, this is exactly what I hope to see too.. else I might just buy a Thinkpad. Way better built quality than the PB by a MILE with a superior processor.. crap LCD monitor though. :(

I don't see a problem with that move. If you see a Mac Mini that's 1.25Ghz, for example, you buy it at the price of a 1.25Ghz machine and you might actually get a 1.42Ghz. It's not a craphsoot since you know you are getting (at least) 1.25Ghz and that is exactly what you are paying for. It's like buying a cereal box that can win you a trip to Hawaii. Sure, it'd be cool if everyone could win the trip, but all you really paid for was the cereal ;)

Please stop defending Apple.

So if you bought a plane ticket to Dakota and the plane sends you to... Hawaii would you be pleased? Why you should! It's Hawaii!! More than what you paid for!!

Everyone knows that is simply Apple's ploy in scamming the retailers, by preventing them from cutting prices on... I stress this... OBSOLETE INVENTORY.

Enough said. All this price fixing disgusts me.

[California]

The issue with the PB line is not their relative specs when compared to a PC, you're not comparing like to like. As a recent switcher to Mac I never made this comparison, I wanted an Apple laptop so why bother looking at something that didn't match my criteria. The fact is that the PowerBooks are more than adequate for almost all OSX software.

Where the PB line does suffer is the price comparison with the iBook and it was this that made me choose an iBook - loving it by the way. In the end I would have been paying £500 more for very little performance or feature benefit had I got a PB. It wasn't justifiable for an aluminium shell and backlit keyboard and instead I bought the iBook and took the saving and got myself a Mini as well.

This has been a very interesting thread. I find that my recent overthink about Macs -- hence my Mac Rumours addiction -- is due to the fact that there seems to be ways to go around the high prices and allure of Apple. Cheers to your purchase of an iBook and Mini.

What I think I'm learning is that outside of OSX, which is the sacrificial lamb for Intel, Apple is a slave to the same manufacturers of hard drives and all other hardward just like PCs. Oh, and Apple's designs -- which are works of art, BTW, are part of its leading edge.

Someone castigated me on the site for calling the iBook an "Eames like sixties design" recently, but then I read a recent iBook review where the critic called it a "Bauhaus" design. I agree -- the iBooks are pop sixties Panton streamline -- very mod. PBs are the epitome of science fiction Machine Age Modern.

Consciously or unconsciously, Apple's design teams are making style inroads that we all appreciate. But again, if Apple recalls the foundational reasons that such design giants like Albers, Corbusier, Mies Van Der Rohe, Marcel Bruer and the like founded the Bauhaus, their goal was to combine form and function. Apple has fallen behind the ball on the function side of things -- is the aluminum powerbook aluminum because it actually cools better on faster and hotter laptops than did the Titanium? I don't know if it was a function or style decision.

I also don't understand -- and can't afford to find out-- what the FSB bottleneck on PBs is and what needs to be invented or innovated in order to make them as fast as PCs. Apple must also be asking themselves the question -- who needs things to run that fast? (Personally I don't need it at all.) Is there a ceiling on how fast computers can run, or at that point, will the innovation be flash or chemical drives that run somewhat organically rather than mechanically? It is a very strange place Apple finds itself in.

I also don't understand why Apple remains a slave to hard drive manufactuers like Fujistu, and can't work a deal to get us 7200 drives all the time. (If they did that, it would be a no brainer to spend the cash on PBs.) In the end, I think Apple is afraid of being a slave to these component manufactuers because that will reduce Mac to being just like everybody else. The Nano is a style statement, but when form is trumped by functionality problems as apparently is the trouble with the new Nano screen, Apple's problems have started to catch up with the hype.

It's a tough business, I hope Apple can continue to outthink the field without selling its soul -- though I'm afraid the Intel thing was of the Devil.

[Verto]

Well ... if Vista won't run on any current pc laptop than that makes what is out there outdated by those standards of that OS.

You may argue that Vista isn't released yet so therefore pc laptops are not outdated, well Mactels aren't released yet either and the current line of powerbooks do what they are meant to do extremely well.

Perhaps you should buy a Toshiba? At the end of the day you get what you pay for. Some people will never be satisfied and no doubt when Mactels are released those complaining about the current line of Powerbooks will be complaining about the Mactels.

You make little sense. The question of whether a current PC laptop can run Vista has nothing to do with my argument against the PowerBook. Of course there will be higher demands placed on hardware by Vista; that is called progress. It is not the job of Leopard to run on G3s, nor is it the job of Vista to run on Pentium IIIs. When Vista is released, computers will have improved processor speeds and specs...except for PowerBook, at this rate :p

My point is this: other laptops improve their specs regularly over time to keep up with new technology. Macs in general, and PowerBooks specifically, lag behind. Whereas many PCs and laptops, even cheap ones like Dells, ship with 1GB of RAM, or 100GB HDs, Apples do not. I don't think anyone can argue that Apple's selling point is its bang for the buck. Beautiful designs, yes; great customer service, yes; but the hardware is lacking, and this is painfully obvious in the PowerBook - smaller hard drives, less RAM, bus speeds, etc when compared to PC laptops.

[Verto]

Apple must also be asking themselves the question -- who needs things to run that fast? (Personally I don't need it at all.)

I'm sure they were asking similar questions when they designed things like the iMac or the Nano, or when they put in the DVD drive in their earlier models. Innovation is more than creating great designs like the iMac; it is remaining at the forefront of technology and meeting the needs (real or imagined) of consumers.

[Sun Baked]

Yay, no dual core e600 (G4-ng) sampling until 2H '06 ...

Considering the 7448 is likely all we will get until then, we will be sponging off them until they are gone. ;)

So no RIO ports, no Integrated Memory Controller, no finally fixed cache, etc. until the full e600 chip ships -- if it ever does with Apple walking away.

[floyde]

So if you bought a plane ticket to Dakota and the plane sends you to... Hawaii would you be pleased? Why you should! It's Hawaii!! More than what you paid for!!


That doesn't make any sense. It's not the same thing. Do you know anyone who would be upset if they got more RAM or CPU power than what they paid for? Would you? You don't get a different computer, you get the same model with potentially better specs. The equivalent analogy would be: you buy a regular ticket to Dakota, you get a first class seat on a plane to Dakota.

And yes, the purpose of this is to get rid of the older models but that is not the point. The point is that they are doing it in a way the benefits the consumer. Consider the other scenario (the way all the other brands get rid of their old models [and they ALL do it <and yes I am embedding parenthesis>]):
-Unsuspecting customer walks into a computer store, knows nothing about computers.
-Costumer asks an employee what computer he should get.
-Employee recommends the X 1000, costumer buys it.
-Customer didn't know he could've gotten an X 2000 (which is newer and better) for the same price he paid for the X 1000.
-Employee gets a premium for getting rid of overstock.

[wongulous]

Brilliant discussion, California. I'm so glad to see someone else on the forum who understands design like you do (especially all of those names that float around in our heads :)), not to mention someone so philosophic. I agree completely.

Also, I'm going to buy a PowerBook soon. I don't care if Apple updates them or not. I need what they offer now, and I find the price acceptable. (Though I may buy refurb to save money.)

[California]

Brilliant discussion, California. I'm so glad to see someone else on the forum who understands design like you do (especially all of those names that float around in our heads :)), not to mention someone so philosophic. I agree completely.

Also, I'm going to buy a PowerBook soon. I don't care if Apple updates them or not. I need what they offer now, and I find the price acceptable. (Though I may buy refurb to save money.)

Well, thanks. I do think we are attracted to Apple by their own "designthink"... P.S. -- go with a refurb! No use $pending more when you can get Applecare but let us know what you decide.

[generik]

Well, thanks. I do think we are attracted to Apple by their own "designthink"... P.S. -- go with a refurb! No use $pending more when you can get Applecare but let us know what you decide.

The best advice would really be to wait for a revision.

It's gotta be close... real close now. Besides, isn't it ironic that the OP is:
1) short of money
2) instead of making do with what he/she currently uses.. buy a refurbished unit to "save money"?
3) and a year or so down the road, the OP will probably have to be in the market for yet another system when a newer revision might have tanked for much longer.

It's seriously not worth it.

I do agree that current advancements in CPUs have afforded us with enough CPU power for most things, but the Powerbook does feel sluggish in some *current* tasks.. I seriously wonder how it would keep up.

And yes, a 2Ghz 7448 with the improved FSB sounds very good on paper. I think there is quite some potential in that.

[HiRez]

I am one that loves to complain about the powerbooks needing an update with fellow mac users but really... when you think about it... the G4 processor really has lasted a long time. The fact I can even play Unreal Tournament 2004 at all on a 12" powerbook Rev. D says a lot! Yes, Apple needs to update the powerbook line but when you really think about it, it is amazing that they are still decent machines with the age of the technology being used to power them.I'm still using my nearly-5-year-old 800 MHz TiBook everyday. I publish a 4-color print magazine almost entirely on it, and use lots of apps including Cinema4D, InDesign, PS, Illustrator, After Effects, Office, etc., as well as do the majority of my Xcode/IB coding on it. For doing serious animation or playing the newest games, it's feeling the pain a bit, but still gets the job done. I do have a dual G5 for doing the heavy lifting when I need it, but I'm really amazed at how well this box still performs and holds up. Not only that but I've hauled it all over the earth and by all rights it should not even still boot up, but it does. Screen still looks excellent as well, though I do take pains to treat it well (keep it clean, turn off the backlight or sleep it when not in use). The only modifications are I added RAM and put a Hitachi 7K60 hard drive inside, which really made a big difference and extended its life for me.

Now having praised it, I will say I'm definitely ready to retire it and get my paws on a shiny new Yonah/Merom dual-core PowerBook, hopefully this time for something a bit less that the $3,000+ I paid for the TiBook. :)

[CuriousG]

And yes, the purpose of this is to get rid of the older models but that is not the point. The point is that they are doing it in a way the benefits the consumer.

Floyde??? You make no sense I am sorry to say. I ask you this much...if apple was thinking of the client then why have they seemingly already "assumed" some clients will buy then want to return it until they get a new one. This is evident in their "restocking" statement. I would imagine if it were YOU and YOU bought a mini you would want the current model not the last model before it. Imagine if Sony did that with their tv's? People would be pissed! Deals like that are for places like Costco and Overstocked that thrive on selling their clients discounted and outdated models. Problem here is apple dont want to give the discount. :(

[caveman_uk]

Floyde??? You make no sense I am sorry to say. I ask you this much...if apple was thinking of the client then why have they seemingly already "assumed" some clients will buy then want to return it until they get a new one. This is evident in their "restocking" statement. I would imagine if it were YOU and YOU bought a mini you would want the current model not the last model before it. Imagine if Sony did that with their tv's? People would be pissed! Deals like that are for places like Costco and Overstocked that thrive on selling their clients discounted and outdated models. Problem here is apple dont want to give the discount. :(

This has been done to death in another thread. Can we just move on or do you just want to keep whining that you might get something for nothing.

[California]

I'm still using my nearly-5-year-old 800 MHz TiBook everyday. I publish a 4-color print magazine almost entirely on it, and use lots of apps including Cinema4D, InDesign, PS, Illustrator, After Effects, Office, etc., as well as do the majority of my Xcode/IB coding on it. For doing serious animation or playing the newest games, it's feeling the pain a bit, but still gets the job done. I do have a dual G5 for doing the heavy lifting when I need it, but I'm really amazed at how well this box still performs and holds up. Not only that but I've hauled it all over the earth and by all rights it should not even still boot up, but it does. Screen still looks excellent as well, though I do take pains to treat it well (keep it clean, turn off the backlight or sleep it when not in use). The only modifications are I added RAM and put a Hitachi 7K60 hard drive inside, which really made a big difference and extended its life for me.

Now having praised it, I will say I'm definitely ready to retire it and get my paws on a shiny new Yonah/Merom dual-core PowerBook, hopefully this time for something a bit less that the $3,000+ I paid for the TiBook. :)

Please tell me you meant a 500mhz Tibook, not 800mhz, right? The first Ti's came out in Jan. 2001, so you must have bought the 500mhz, right?

I know, still great machine.

[MrSugar]

I've argued that logic before, but what it really comes down to is this: design is one of the founding tenets of Apple. The second, in my opinion, is ease-of-use. The third is powerful technology for everyone. The last of these is key: for the majority of people, the PowerBook does exactly what it was meant to do. Kick some ass, take names, and look good doing it.

What really is lacking? We all know that the G4 is an old chip. But it's also stood the test of time, which is an enormous feat for any technology, much less the short-lived processor.



I think you're right. If Apple had stayed with Freescale they would have redesigned the 'Books for the G4+. The new G4s have "evolved" and require a complete overhaul. Yes, the Pentium M performs better in some areas, but I would hardly say the G4 is that far behind.

The mobility 9700 is still a very good chipset and does its job: low heat, low profile. Storage continues to increase. Resolution is excellent for most folks (if you really want 1900x1200 on a 12" screen, then a PC with Microsoft DestroyYourVision™ 2005 is probably a better choice). What else? USB ports? Please. We have sweet keyboard lights and trackpads, FireWire 800, Bluetooth 2.0... I guess I'm just not seeing your logic here.

And back to the "design" tenet... if Apple must sacrifice some fraction of speed and power for design, so be it. That's the way it is and always has been.

I challenge you to show us a PC laptop that exceeds the PowerBook feature-set, while maintaining good design principles. I doubt you can find one less than 1" thick with a 17" screen. :p Not to mention Mac OS X and all the other reasons we prefer Mac.

Also: the PowerBook is a premium computer. If you don't really care to pay extra for an aluminum finish, get an iBook! Or don't get the Saab with turbo and fog lights, etc.

BANG!

This post is exactly what I think about the Powerbook line up. Thank you for putting it so well.

No laptop out there can beat the Apple Powerbook on an all around comparison of features. None.




I would like to expand on my post.

If people really believe they have found other computers that are better than the powerbook for a cheaper price, then let's see. I would love to see some links or stats on these amazing computers...

The only thing I can find that comes close is the more expensive VoodooPC laptops (http://voodoopc.com/showRoom.aspx?categoryID=2).

[Yoyodyne]

Originally Posted by MrSugar:
No laptop out there can beat the Apple Powerbook on an all around comparison of features. None.

I disagree. The following, with BTO options that keep it under 2200, are all equivalents:

http://laptopsinc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=N6210CTO&Category_Code=FUJIN&Product_Count=2


This one is a rebranded ASUS:
http://laptopsinc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MXW3V&Category_Code=P1MX&Product_Count=0

For the cost of the top Powerbook you could get:
http://www.proportable.com/detail.aspx?ID=136

These notebook have there faults, such as bulk, but you will never find a perfect notebook. Outside of the included software and compactness, the Powerbooks are not a good deal right now.

[CuriousG]

Now that last one from Asus is simply amazing. It's got me thinking. ;)

[Demon Hunter]

Now that last one from Asus is simply amazing. It's got me thinking. ;)

How ironic, it's as close as you can get to a PowerBook without a lawsuit! There you have it friends, the choice between Mac and PC, it doesn't get more clear than that.

BANG!

This post is exactly what I think about the Powerbook line up. Thank you for putting it so well.

Thanks! I feel loved. ;)

[carlos700]

The ATI Mobility RADEON 9800 is TOO HOT and will make the PowerBook TOO THICK. It is a graphics chip for desktop replacement notebooks —not thin-n-lights like the PowerBook. The only graphics chip that will work in a thin notebook (faster than the ATI 9700) is the NVIDIA GeForce Go 6600 (and that's pushing it on the 12-inch). The ATI Mobility X600/X700 are just PCI-Express versions of their 9x00 cousin unlike the X800 which is completely different from the 9800.

[Bern]

How ironic, it's as close as you can get to a PowerBook without a lawsuit! There you have it friends, the choice between Mac and PC, it doesn't get more clear than that.

I wonder how good this Taiwanese company's worldwide warranty is? :rolleyes: I've seen the Asus, the quality is garbage actually in comparison to even an iBook.

[Eastend]

I wonder how good this Taiwanese company's worldwide warranty is? :rolleyes: I've seen the Asus, the quality is garbage actually in comparison to even an iBook.

Your post is exactly what I was thinking about Asus. That takes care of all 3 that the previious poster listed, because that first one would be slower than the PowerBook and for the size and weight you can have 2 PowerBooks.

Brian

[cluthz]

I bougth my 1.33GHz little over a year ago, at that time it was really good priced vs intels (of same quality), a "similar" specced Dell Latitude f.ex was about the same price. That was over 1 year ago, since that the powerbook still has the same gfx, and only 0.167Ghz more.. The latitude has on the same timespan went from 1.6->2.26 GHz. And they still costs the same.

The powerbooks are great products, but atm they are seriously lagging behind in speed.

About build quality, im not sure, had tons of really good macs, but my PBs gfx just died after only been used on my desk even if it was in a "cooler stand", and ofc excactly 1 year and 8 days old.

If Apple releases a new model now that is upgrade (not talking about +100 MHz) I will buy a new PB, but this time with Apple care

[willyhunt]

How ironic, it's as close as you can get to a PowerBook without a lawsuit! There you have it friends, the choice between Mac and PC, it doesn't get more clear than that.


I was under the impression (perhaps mistakenly) that Asus built or had a hand in the design of Apple laptops? Also the Vaio's I believe? Of course I could be wrong.......

[Bern]

I was under the impression (perhaps mistakenly) that Asus built or had a hand in the design of Apple laptops? Also the Vaio's I believe? Of course I could be wrong.......

hhmm interesting I haven't heard that, but honestly my partner is shopping around for a pc lappie and we saw all three of the Asus (they're very popular at our Chinatown computer retailers) and they look cheap. The HP's are far nicer in comparison.

[JRM PowerPod]

Your post is exactly what I was thinking about Asus. That takes care of all 3 that the previious poster listed, because that first one would be slower than the PowerBook and for the size and weight you can have 2 PowerBooks.

Brian

Yeah, the first fujitsu was amazingly compact at only 2" thick and 10 pounds. Real competition for the likes of the powerbook

[JRM PowerPod]

What really matters is: would anyone in this forum give away their powerbook for a thinkpad, fujitsu, ASUS, HP, Dell or any other comparable PC. I know for one that I wouldn't.

My 12" 1.5Ghz 1.2gb ram Powerbook does anything and everything i need it to. My brother has a Dell Inspiron 8600 2Ghz 1gb Ram 100gb HD 128mb 9600. He is jealous of my powerbook. How small it is, and even how powerful it is. For a start my loads up in under 30secs is takes 2-3mins. As much as I'd like a 2.26Ghz G5 Powerbook with 2Gb DDR2 120gb HD and an X850XT, it ain't going to happen. When someone buys a Mac they buy the package, the software and the hardware, and in doing so we are buying a superior product.

It looks like there are updates tomorrow anyway, with the BTO PB's going to 3-5 weeks in Australia just for upgrading the Ram.

Just remember why we buy macs and stop the complaining, no one forces you to buy one, a benefit of democracy i guess

[Palad1]

What really matters is: would anyone in this forum give away their powerbook for a thinkpad, fujitsu, ASUS, HP, Dell or any other comparable PC. I know for one that I wouldn't.

My 12" 1.5Ghz 1.2gb ram Powerbook does anything and everything i need it to. My brother has a Dell Inspiron 8600 2Ghz 1gb Ram 100gb HD 128mb 9600. He is jealous of my powerbook. How small it is, and even how powerful it is. For a start my loads up in under 30secs is takes 2-3mins. As much as I'd like a 2.26Ghz G5 Powerbook with 2Gb DDR2 120gb HD and an X850XT, it ain't going to happen. When someone buys a Mac they buy the package, the software and the hardware, and in doing so we are buying a superior product.


Heck, I OWN a 15'' Powerbook, and even I am jealous of your 12'' :)
Damn, if only my radeon 9700 could fit in those lovely 12'' :p

[drake]

Apple should just do some major price cutting on their existing outdated lineup until they rolllout the Intel versions.

[BGil]

Well ... if Vista won't run on any current pc laptop than that makes what is out there outdated by those standards of that OS.


Vista runs on all current laptops and all XP generation hardware as well. At most, one would need a ram upgrade to 512 but nearly every PC since 2002 has shipped with 512 so that's not much of a problem.

I'm failry certian that Vista will install on a machine with onyl 256 but I haven't tried it myself.

[Yoyodyne]

Originally Posted by Eastend:
Your post is exactly what I was thinking about Asus. That takes care of all 3 that the previious poster listed, because that first one would be slower than the PowerBook and for the size and weight you can have 2 PowerBooks.

How would the Fujistu be slower than the Powerbook? I already mentioned size being one of the few downfalls, but saying you could have two Powerbooks for one Fujistu makes no sense as an argument for a price/value ratio.

I own an iBook G4 in all its cheap-labor gloriness and I severely doubt the build quality is much better than three I posted.

Watch out when bitch about Asus:
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=11890