"Serenity" movie discussion - spoiler warning!

[nagromme]

As a Public Service, I've created this for comments/reviews--including open discussion of plot, details, and spoilers--by people who HAVE seen the movie... leaving the other thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=122405) spoiler-free if people prefer. Take it or leave it :) If there's a better way to handle this, mod away! :)

My motivation? I haven't seen it yet...

WARNING: MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW. Entire movie will be ruined for you, and you will have 7 years bad luck. Now don't say you weren't warned. :)

PS, feel free to adopt my temporary Serenity avatar. Or this simpler one:
http://67.18.37.18/1720/64/upload/av-1.gif

[atszyman]

Spoilers to follow read no further if you wish to be surprised by this movie. Since the entire reason for this thread is to keep spoilers out of the other thread I feel no need to utilize white text.

Obviously I've seen it. Took some time and played hooky form work with one of my co-workers and my wife.

Random Rants (spoilers within (consider this your final warning))

They did a great job keeping the humor of the series and I found myself thoroughly happy with the movie.

I can't believe they killed Wash. Book I can understand a little more but Wash was always one of my favorites. Of course this could explain why Tudyk and Glass were the last of the original cast to sign on to do the movie (they may have had advance scripts), or possibly their punishment for not getting on board early enough.

For awhile I thought they were going to take out the entire crew at the end and kill any chance for a sequel. I can now see a story arc for another couple movies where the Browncoats re-organize and start the war with the Alliance in the next one, and the conclusion of the war in the third. Of course Kaylee and Simon finally hook up but Inara and Mal are still up in the air.

I am a bit disappointed in the fact that since they are trying to cram so much plot into the 2 hours that they don't have enough time to really develop characters as much as would be allowed with a continuing series. But it was good enough to stand on it's own and should be able to have a solid weekend opening. Considering the choice is not between a series and the movie, but the movie or nothing, I'm glad that they did a good job on the movie to hopefully get a sequel or 2 to tie off the other loose ends if they choose to.

[clayj]

Just got back from seeing it... it was really good (so much so that I *will* be seeing it again at least once more). All the humor was there, thought the storyline was actually pretty good. LOVED Kaylee's line about how she hasn't had any for over a year... at least, not any that doesn't run on batteries. Mal's response to that was priceless.

Sorry to see Wash and Book die, but I'm guessing that Alan Tudyk might not have wanted to end up in the same boat as Walter Koenig and George Takei... and Book was a bit superfluous. Besides, now he can come back a la Obi-Wan Kenobi in the sequel. :)

[eva01]

oh my god it was so so so so so so so so so awesome, i am seeing it again tomorrow night. Best movie i have seen in a long time. in my opinion it was so true to the story, my god it was awesome.

[comictimes]

Haven't see the show, so I can't exactly comment on the movie's truthfulness to it, but just as a movie, it was AWESOME. honestly. Hell of cool action, funny one-liners, a cool story line and neat special effects... what isn't to like.

The bar scene was honestly one of the most entertaining things I've seen in a really long time- I can not get over her kicking a bottle off the bar and knocking a guy out.

That was definitely one of the few movies I'd be willing to pay to see in theaters a second time.

[eva01]

I just made two random serenity backgrounds (1680X1050) they are both of the ship Serenity, if you want one just shoot me an email PM or IM and i can make one for you.

But for now i must finish watching firefly.

[Mr. Anderson]

Great movie and I've only seen a few of the shows. I'm hoping they do more - although I'm a bit surprised the assassin caved at the last moment and let them live - true, for a continuation it had to happen - but they didn't really need that part. River had killed all the Reavers and they could have managed to get out of there without Alliance getting involved.

Besides, it could have left it open for the assassin to work with them in the future - actually I was thinking that at the end he was going to get on board with them since things were no longer right with the his universe.

Side question - why are all the text and graphics in Chinese/Japanese/Korean - the only english was on the side of the Rescue Ship on Miranda and Serenity's logo.

And with all that cultural influence, where are all the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans?

D

[clayj]

Side question - why are all the text and graphics in Chinese/Japanese/Korean - the only english was on the side of the Rescue Ship on Miranda and Serenity's logo.

And with all that cultural influence, where are all the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans?I read somewhere that the official name of the Alliance is something like the "Anglo-Sino Alliance"... Whedon's idea being that in the future, the dominant nations on Earth (which would then translate into dominance in space) would be the US and China. And since the Chinese are traditionally a culture of discipline and obedience, they'd be more likely to be concentrated in the Alliance planets, and less likely to be scattered out on the rim where our heroes usually find themselves.

[Chundles]

I read somewhere that the official name of the Alliance is something like the "Anglo-Sino Alliance"... Whedon's idea being that in the future, the dominant nations on Earth (which would then translate into dominance in space) would be the US and China. And since the Chinese are traditionally a culture of discipline and obedience, they'd be more likely to be concentrated in the Alliance planets, and less likely to be scattered out on the rim where our heroes usually find themselves.

Why would Anglo-Sino mean US and China? The China bit yeah, but the Anglo bit comes from the Angles who were inhabitants of Britain before the Saxon invasion.

Should be something like the Yankee-Sino Alliance or the Seppo-Sino Alliance. Hmmm.... that last one has a good ring to it.

I haven't seen Firefly (had barely even heard of it - thought they were talking about an Aussie series dealing with firefighters) am not much of a fan of Joss Whedon especially Buffy which I thought was good every now and then but generally mediocre. Question is, would I enjoy this movie? Is it good enough to stand on it's own as a piece of cinema and not rely on the back story of a TV series and the supposed reputation of it's creator? Haven't been to the flicks in a while and I'm trying to find one to go to - currently number one is Wallace and Grommit.

What do you reckon?

[Mr. Anderson]

It more than manages to stand by itself without knowing the background or having seen the series. I had only seen 1 1/2 shows before seeing this and I'm looking forward to getting the series on DVD now.

D

[atszyman]

I read somewhere that the official name of the Alliance is something like the "Anglo-Sino Alliance"... Whedon's idea being that in the future, the dominant nations on Earth (which would then translate into dominance in space) would be the US and China. And since the Chinese are traditionally a culture of discipline and obedience, they'd be more likely to be concentrated in the Alliance planets, and less likely to be scattered out on the rim where our heroes usually find themselves.

In one of the extra features on the Firefly DVD set he goes into it a bit as well. Mainly to explain the swearing and why it was always done in Chinese. Fun way to get around the sensors. I thought they might try subtitling them in the movies, but I'm happier that they kept it like the series, although I wish I knew Chinese.

[Mr. Anderson]

In one of the extra features on the Firefly DVD set he goes into it a bit as well. Mainly to explain the swearing and why it was always done in Chinese. Fun way to get around the sensors. I thought they might try subtitling them in the movies, but I'm happier that they kept it like the series, although I wish I knew Chinese.

I'm going to have to get that now....

And its scary to think that the Chinese might be a power in space....

D

[nagromme]

Wow! Better than I expected! A VERY refreshing change from recent sci-fi movies.

And happily, the trailers weren't spoilers after all, they were mainly misdirection! (Come on, that was Earth in the trailers, I swear!) Everything the trailers truly gave away was in the movie's first 60 seconds anyway.

When I saw the fleets facing off in the trailers, I totally expected some kind of new rebellion in the movie--not very original, and not true to Mal's "live on the outside edge" style. I'm so much happier with what really happened.

Now I'm bumping Firefly to the top of my Netflix queue :)


For awhile I thought they were going to take out the entire crew at the end and kill any chance for a sequel.
No kidding. Hand it to Joss Whedon--again and again he has made me BELIEVE there is no hope for the protagonists! I cringed to see Serenity smashed to pieces, and then when Wash died... all bets were off. I was ready to believe that most if not all of the characters were going to die.

...they don't have enough time to really develop characters as much as would be allowed with a continuing series.
Very true. We who watched Firefly KNOW what's between Mal and Inara, and between Kaylee and Simon, and between the Shepherd and everyone else. But without that depth (which no movie could have, not for every character) the movie is still really good. I'd have no hesitation recommending it to non-Firefly-fans.


Haven't see the show, so I can't exactly comment on the movie's truthfulness to it, but just as a movie, it was AWESOME.
Good to hear an "outsider's" view! And I can comment on the movie's truthfulness to the show: 100%. If you liked Serenity, run out and watch the hours of fun that came before it. Nothing from the show was contradicted or changed to make the movie. Even the ship itself is essentially identical. The story fits nicely after the conclusion of the show, with a little flashbacking for explanation. But not redundant flashbacking: it tells bits of the backstory that we never got to see on Firefly.


why are all the text and graphics in Chinese/Japanese/Korean ... And with all that cultural influence, where are all the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans?
The ruling superpower is the Inglo-Sino Alliance (named from the languages I guess, not the nations). We don't know exactly how this all came about, but the phrase "Earth-That-Was" tells us it wasn't pretty.

Everyone in the new society--from the wealthy to the poor--is bilingual, regardless of racial background. One of the premises of the show. They often slip into Chinese at stressful moments--handy for swearing on TV. (unless your children speak Chinese!) Along with that, Chinese cultural influences are prominent--along with many others. And in the commentary of the DVDs, they explain how one thing they did intentionally was to give Asian-sounding surnames to many characters no matter what their actual background. The obvious example: Simon and River Tam.

Bottom line--the future is a strange place, and we're not exactly sure how that cultural combination came to be. But it's an interesting vision--especially when merged with the frontier/western theme.


Misc. comments:

* The "downtime" in the show--playing games in the hold, fixing some nasty canned space rations in the kitchen, etc.--was missing. The movie was all action. That was a fine choice for the movie, just something I noticed. You didn't have as much of a sense of Serenity as a "home" unless you watched Firefly.

* Music: not yet another contemporary rock score like the trailers used (much as I like Kasabian). Instead, they used a lot of the same Western/Chinese hybrid style as the show's music. Excellent.

* I would have liked to see Jubal Early return, but the Operative was fun in his own way.

* I like the new Mule :)

* Book dead??? Wash .... dead.... ??? That's Joss Whedon for you. He keeps you nervous because you know he WILL kill anyone, with OR without dramatic buildup. Wash got basically the same death as Tara. Ouch. But both deaths serve a purpose. I know Wash's death heightened the feeling of hopeless doom a lot.

* Did they ever mention what Inara actually does? Or is that not PG-13? ;)

* Will we ever get to solve the mystery of the Shepherd's past now?

* So River's a Slayer? :p That's OK, it's a fun character to have on board.

* Reaver Madness! What a great thing to do with the Reaver concept. I never really thought the Reavers would have any deep plot significance--just a mindless peril to be avoided. Now I'm thinking Joss may have planned more for the Reavers all along. And dressing Serenity up as a Reaver ship? How cool (and disturbing) is that?

I like that the Reavers were never seen directly on Firefly--and hardly seen in the movie. Makes them even scarier. And what made the scary on the show was that EVERYONE was afraid of them--even people who were'nt sure they were real. Mention "Reavers" and NOBODY thinks "stand and fight." You just run. Then, in the movie... watch the Operative's face when he sees the Reavers arrive. That's right--no matter who you are, you're afraid of Reavers.

[Xtremehkr]

Very dark movie, hopefully the team gels more as the trilogy progresses. It has everything that Star Wars did not, good dialogue and believable character interaction.

It needed to be about three hours long though, I would like to have seen the crew have some more good times.

Now, if Joss and Lucas combined to do a movie, that would be great.

[nagromme]

It needed to be about three hours long though, I would like to have seen the crew have some more good times.
Me too. Watch Firefly for that--the Serenity "family" is fully fleshed-out. But those fun times do make the darkness that much darker when it comes! That's Joss Whedon for you.

PS, I was wondering who's going to fly the ship now? The Captain's not much of a pilot as I understand it. But the last moments of the movie answered my question :) I hope they always keep a dinosaur on the dash for good luck.

[Xtremehkr]

Me too. Watch Firefly for that--the Serenity "family" is fully fleshed-out. But those fun times do make the darkness that much darker when it comes! That's Joss Whedon for you.

PS, I was wondering who's going to fly the ship now? The Captain's not much of a pilot as I understand it. But the last moments of the movie answered my question :) I hope they always keep a dinosaur on the dash for good luck.

Maybe we'll see some new characters introduced, though River seemed to be taking some interest in flying the ship. A psychic pilot would be cool.

[iPoster]

A psychic pilot would be cool.

<--- Enters River in the Pod Races. :rolleyes: ;)

[atszyman]

I still maintain that the deaths of Book and Wash are either the cause of them being the last to sign on, or the result of them being the last to sign on.

Not many actors would want to get involved with what could be a movie series knowing that they will be killed in the first episode. However it could also be the Joss was having the difficulty getting them to sign on, so he killed them off to avoid possible difficulties in the sequels.

I doubt we will find out about Book's past through flashbacks but I wouldn't put it past Joss to have the crew find someone who knew Book before he became a Shepherd (possibly a new pilot?). I just don't see them continuing with River as a pilot for a long period of time. She's much more suited and useful for going off ship on missions, in which case you need a skilled pilot still on board to be ready to take of at a moments notice.

It was kind of sad, I watched the Firefly episode from the Sci-Fi channel on Friday and it was one of the most Wash-centric episodes (the one where Niska captures Mal and Wash). However it did open up another loose end for the movies which I will not point out since it appears a lot of people here have not seen the full series yet.

[atszyman]

Box office projections have Serenity coming in at #2 ($10.1 million) behind Flightplan (15.0 million).

However Flightplan is showing at more sites (3424), so Serenity (2188 sites) actually outpaced them if you look at $/site.

Hopefully it pulls to #1 next weekend as the word gets out.

[Xtremehkr]

I'm really hoping that it pulls a number one spot for a while, I want the sequels to be made.

[Guitarius]

Man. I saw this movie last night and I was blown away. I loved how it wasn't simply an extra long episode, but an actual movie. It would have been good had I not loved the series, but was even better because of that.

I was upset that they never played the theme song. Great song.

[nagromme]

If Serenity was at #1 per screen... then more screens opening, word of mouth, and all the good reviews, might really help the second weekend. Will it hit #1 overall? Depends what opens next weekend maybe. But a movie doesn't have to be THE #1 movie to be a success. And this one apparently didn't cost much to make--which surprised me since it feels high-budget in many ways.

I'll remember Serenity every time I light incense now :)


I was upset that they never played the theme song. Great song.
Something tells me you didn't stay through the end of the credits...


I loved how it wasn't simply an extra long episode, but an actual movie.
Better yet, it wasn't just a movie about River! I thought the main story would be River--and she was important for sure. But instead the central story was something new: Miranda.

[eva01]

Better yet, it wasn't just a movie about River! I thought the main story would be River--and she was important for sure. But instead the central story was something new: Miranda.


That made me exstatic to be exact. That it was a new twist, intermingling the reavers (who you know humans had to of made and now you found out how) with River, with the Alliance. And how the alliance actually made the reavers, trying to do the exact opposite.


I LOVED IT!

[Guitarius]

Something tells me you didn't stay through the end of the credits...

Actually I did. And I heard that little 30 seconds of the music. But it wasn't enough. I wanted the whole thing. The whole song and the singing.

[FoxyKaye]

Caught Serenity on Friday night - I was a really big fan of the original series, and mostly enjoyed Serenity as its big-screen re-launch. The music was beautiful, and if anyone stayed through the closing credits, you were rewarded with an acoustic guitar version of the original Firefly theme from the TV series.

A few items of speculation to share with everyone:

* I was absolutely stunned when they killed both Book and Wash - though I have heard that Ron Glass is not in good health, can anyone verify/confirm this? Also, that Alan Tudyk may be wanting a stronger director/producer hand in upcoming movies has also been speculated.

* The movie seems to have done away with the "two by two, hands of blue" arc from the series. River's capture and torture seems to have now been exclusively at the hands of the Alliance. No mention of Blue Sun's role in this either.

* Joss seems to be implying that River was tortured and trained by the Alliance as a Reaver "fighting machine." Or maybe to keep the Independents from re-organizing. Anyone else pick up on this?

* Anyone else think that we'll never hear Book's back-story? He seems to somewhat confess to Mal that he was deep in the Alliance ("I wasn't always a Shephard"), but never brings it up because Mal was an Independent.

* Seemed like there was very little crew "down time". I thought some of the ribaldary of the original series was lost.

Overall, I'd give Serenity 4.5 stars out of 5 - can't wait to see where the trilogy goes from here. Certainly better than any Star Trek movie I've ever seen, and beats the socks off of every Star Wars movie with the possible exceptions of Empire and Revenge.

[efoto]

I just saw it last night having never seen the series and I'll say it was pretty good but not excellent. I respect it for all that it accomplished and having you all say that it follows the series well and everything makes it that much better, but since I have not seen the series yet the movie is simply good but not great.

I thought the storyline was good and definitely leaves enough for a sequel and perhaps rounded out by trilogy which would be sweet. I am usually a stiff critique of movies because I see almost all of them, but overall Serenity was good and highly entertaining. I have already recommended it to several co-workers and will be passing the recommendations on to friends and others soon enough.

A quick question; The FireFly series has been on how long? I have heard mention of the DVDs already so I am assuming some time.... Secondly, does the entire FireFly series precede the movie?

[huck500]

But both deaths serve a purpose.

I absolutely disagree...Book's death did serve a purpose, to get Mal on the right track, at least to me. Wash's death just ruined the movie for me. If the actor didn't want to return, fine. I hope that was the deal. Killing off my favorite character, turning Zoe into nothing but an emotionless soldier, and taking away one of the only married, happy couples in sci-fi just angered me, enough that I really don't want to watch the couple of episodes I haven't seen. What purpose did it serve, plot-wise?

[clayj]

A quick question; The FireFly series has been on how long? I have heard mention of the DVDs already so I am assuming some time.... Secondly, does the entire FireFly series precede the movie?One season, 15 episodes (about 4 of which were never aired on TV)... the series was badly hampered by having its episodes aired out of sequence (the pilot wasn't aired until about 6 or 7 other "later" episodes had already been aired), and it was given the axe midway through the first season.

And yes, the entire series precedes the movie.

[joepunk]

I wish that "they" kept the original theme musik from the TV show and incorporated it somehow into the movie. Possibly like during the credits or during the beginning.

I liked how Joss sort of kept the beginning like a TV show by showing an opener and then going to the open credits.

Kind of missed the men in blue (those guys who wore blue gloves).

Overall, I enjoyed it tremendously. Will probably try to go and see it for a second time.

[Guitarius]

Kind of missed the men in blue (those guys who wore blue gloves).

Yeah, but that was made up by the abundancy of Reavers. I binge watched the whole series on the friday and saturday, and was bitching on the ride to the theatre about how they underdeveloped the whole Reaver thing.

I agree that it would have been cooler with those guys there somehow, but I loved how they tied in the Reavers.

[stcanard]

I absolutely disagree...Book's death did serve a purpose, to get Mal on the right track, at least to me. Wash's death just ruined the movie for me ... What purpose did it serve, plot-wise?

It's purpose was to make the audience believe that there was a real chance that everyone was going to die.

Without it the final scenes would have been far less tense/suspensful because the feel of the movie up until then gave you the feeling that you knew everyone would live happily ever after. As soon as the stake went through him you were no longer certain...

[Guitarius]

It's purpose was to make the audience believe that there was a real chance that everyone was going to die.

Without it the final scenes would have been far less tense/suspensful because the feel of the movie up until then gave you the feeling that you knew everyone would live happily ever after. As soon as the stake went through him you were no longer certain...
I agree. A wonderful, and greatly dramatic choice.

[huck500]

It's purpose was to make the audience believe that there was a real chance that everyone was going to die.

Without it the final scenes would have been far less tense/suspensful because the feel of the movie up until then gave you the feeling that you knew everyone would live happily ever after. As soon as the stake went through him you were no longer certain...

After reading about the studio's hope to make this a franchise, all his death did was make me think about how the possible future movies would suck without him.

Edit: Not suck, but not be as good. :mad:

[nagromme]

I wish that "they" kept the original theme musik from the TV show and incorporated it somehow into the movie. Possibly like during the credits or during the beginning.
...
Kind of missed the men in blue (those guys who wore blue gloves).
Re music: the Ballad of Serenity WAS there... an instrumental version ended the credits. Nice touch. (Although I was hoping the credits would get a full, new, vocal version.)

Re "2x2, Hands of Blue"--I agree. But you can only get so much in a movie. (They could have had the surgeons wearing blue gloves, though, or the Operative radioing someone in blue gloves.) As for "Blue Sun"... I guess only the most dedicated trivia buffs will ever know why River stabbed Jayne :) The connection to the hands may never be known. (Unless that wave from Miranda had a Blue Sun logo in it... I choose to think Blue Sun developed Miranda's drug.)


I absolutely disagree...Book's death did serve a purpose, to get Mal on the right track, at least to me. ... Killing off my favorite character, turning Zoe into nothing but an emotionless soldier, and taking away one of the only married, happy couples in sci-fi just angered me, enough that I really don't want to watch the couple of episodes I haven't seen. What purpose did it serve, plot-wise?
Don't get me wrong, I REALLY wish Wash was still around. Book too, but especially Wash. I think the movie COULD have been done with one or both of them living.

But the purpose Wash's death served was to make the audience lose hope. It was a nasty, senseless, horrible shock, coming right on the heels of watching the beloved ship ripped to shreds. After that, the other characters started to fall one by one--and speaking for myself, I believed it very possible that many of them would never live to see another day. I thought that Mal WOULD get the signal out, but beyond that I didn't expect a happy ending. Even River's death at the hands of the Reavers wouldn't have surprised me. Heck, I even thought Mal himself might be dead for a while there. Yet the movie DID have a basically happy ending. Everyone else lived after all. Surprise!

Which is why Wash couldn't have been "badly injured but found miraculously alive later on." Too many other characters had just been through near-death injury. (Kaylee and Simon and Mal.)

It was like the last few episodes of Buffy season 5. A real sense of impending doom, followed by... well, in that instance, actual doom. But my point is, it's not easy to make an audience BELIEVE that a whole batch of beloved characters is going to lose--or even die. In that sense, Wash's death may have been mostly FOR the Firefly fans: they are the ones who most expect their crew to make it.

So painful as it is (and if you feel that pain, it's a mark of good drama), I will mourn Wash's death but not let it ruin the movie. And definitely don't let it ruin the rest of the Firefly DVDs--they're fun :)

(BTW, when I posted about "both deaths," I meant that both Tara's and Wash's deaths served a purpose... but you're right, Book's does as well. Tara is O/T... speaking of breaking up rare fictional couples.)

[stcanard]

(BTW, when I posted about "both deaths," I meant that both Tara's and Wash's deaths served a purpose... but you're right, Book's does as well. Tara is O/T... speaking of breaking up rare fictional couples.)

AHH I GET IT!

It's been driving me crazy trying to figure out which character Tara was. I remembered both Book and Wash dying, but aside from some other side characters didn't remember a Tara in the movie, let alone one that had a 'significant' death.

I finally understand that we're talking Buffy not Serenity :o

[huck500]

But the purpose Wash's death served was to make the audience lose hope.

I understand the purpose, I just hate the choice of character. I know others would have hated whichever character he chose to kill off...to me, he killed the best character, the character I identified most with, and at the same time ruined the character of Zoe...to me, half of who she was was her relationship with him.

If the death made everything more exciting for most people, that's cool. It pulled me out of the movie and, at least at this point (two days later), has ruined the Firefly universe for me. I'm not being petulant about it, I just don't really care about the story without Wash and his relationship with Zoe. I hope I'm in the minority, and I hope I change my mind so I can enjoy any future movies.

[Mr. Anderson]

I understand the purpose, I just hate the choice of character. I know others would have hated whichever character he chose to kill off...to me, he killed the best character, the character I identified most with, and at the same time ruined the character of Zoe...to me, half of who she was was her relationship with him.

If the death made everything more exciting for most people, that's cool. It pulled me out of the movie and, at least at this point (two days later), has ruined the Firefly universe for me. I'm not being petulant about it, I just don't really care about the story without Wash and his relationship with Zoe. I hope I'm in the minority, and I hope I change my mind so I can enjoy any future movies.

I think one thing you'll see happen is working the new crew out and how the survivors grow/change with the deaths. It might not be all that bad and I can't imagine there isn't a plan.

Besides, having River pilot the ship might be necessary, who knows.

D

[huck500]

Besides, having River pilot the ship might be necessary, who knows.


I liked that River took over piloting, actually. Not sure there will be more movies, since it underperformed this weekend...maybe the DVD sales will justify it.

To change the subject: Did anyone else think it was strange that Mal didn't make sure to kill the bad guy before he climbed onto the scaffolding over the giant pit? Especially after learning that said bad guy wore body armor earlier? I'm just sayin'...headshot please...

[nagromme]

That was careless of Mal. Then again, a bit later he had plans OTHER than death for the Operative.

BTW, the movie didn't underperform: Joss Whedon and his fans would have loved to see this movie (with no known stars) immediately exceed expectations and open as the #1 movie overall. Instead, it opened as the #1 NEW movie, and as the #1 movie in revenue per screen (it just wasn't shown in as many theaters as Flight Plan, the #1). Also, the falloff from Friday to Sunday wasn't bad, it was good: it was less than the falloff for other movies.

Universal has said two encouraging things: 1) They have no set number target they need to meet to make sequels, and are not rushing to make that call. And 2) The opening weekend numbers are just what they predicted--not worse. Universal is happy, they are behind the movie, AND they are thinking ahead to DVD sales too.

Also, supposedly sequels tend to make more money than the originals (regardless of quality).

The success of this movie always was, and still is, expected to be a slow and steady one, fueled by word of mouth (and now some great reviews!) not by star power or a big marketing budget. In fact, I know people who have avoided seeing the movie right away BECAUSE they are so interested: they want to see it in "proper order" and are waiting to watch/rent the DVDs of Firefly first!

But it needs to get the CHANCE to have steady, prolonged sales. That means it has to stay in theaters. And THAT means the second weekend is important. Because theaters have a 2 week commitment, and then they can opt to keep a movie or not. Second weekend numbers are always lower--but how MUCH lower? If the dropoff next weekend isn't too much, then audiences are liking the movie and it will stay in theaters making money for Universal.

So we haven't won our sequels yet--but nobody realistically expected that. It would have been neat to say it was #1 and sequels are for sure, but Universal makes the decisions, and they have made no such expectations.

Two other points in Serenity's favor: 1. The movie paid for 1/4 of its cost in one weekend. That is unusually good for a sci-fi movie. And 2. This is Joss Whedon's first movie, and it came in on time and within budget. Studios like that! Not to mention, it came in within a SMALL budget--without LOOKING like it had a small budget. A very economical investment, then.

I almost hope the movie doesn't QUITE make it to sequels, and that a series returns sometime. I know, I know--we've been told a new series is impossible.

But we were also told a movie was impossible! And we got a good one that's widely liked by all audiences--and makes a great conclusion to the Firefly story even if there aren't sequels. Something to keep in mind when reviewers call Serenity sales "disappointing" just because it's only #2. (What about movies #3, 4, and 5? Failures every one?)

It's a movie that appeals to many demographics, but fits no known model. People have heard of it maybe, but aren't sure what to make of it. The TV connection may be perceived as a negative, however needlessly. So people decide to "wait and see" how it's received. Now that the great reviews are out, it's time to stop waiting and start seeing :)

This is a HUGE success story, not a failure. And I think it WILL get sequels, even if that decision isn't made until after the DVD is out.

To quote for the umpteenth time: "We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

[stcanard]

I liked that River took over piloting, actually. Not sure there will be more movies, since it underperformed this weekend...maybe the DVD sales will justify it.

From what I've read, it didn't underperform, it performed right within expectations. I think everyone expects this movie to be a big repeat business / word of mouth showing, so the more interesting number is the drop off (or lack thereof) week to week. It was never going to open strong.

So I'm still hoping that it will get sequels. My wife's opinion (she never saw Firefly) was that Serenity was good, but the sequel will be great -- she could see how it was held back by the need to introduce the characters, universe, politics, and cram a whole bunch of plot into two hours. Hopefully more people will see that potential.

[eva01]

The entire series was word of worth and so is the movie. How did it underperform? It did very well in my opinion, because i heard from at least 10 other people that didn't know about Firefly that they were going to see Serenity.

I say that is not underperforming.

Hell i brought someone with me to the movie that had never heard of serenity or firefly before and now she is going to be borrowing the firefly series from me.

Definitely not underperforming.

Outstanding movie

[nagromme]

I do think sequels will be even better: Whedon will be able to "do his own thing" a little more freely the second time.

But enough about the movie industry and horrible deaths... here's my list of the most fun things in Serenity :)

* New Mule (was the old one destroyed? I forget.)

* "Am I talking to Miranda now?" - the look River gives to Simon.

* "Did you see us fighting?" "No..." "Trap."

* Mal telling the Buddha what he wants for "Christmas"

* "That's not incense." (It seemed like Inara was just a helpless victim. It felt wrong. I should have known.)

* "She is starting to damage my calm." (The most useful new phrase I picked up!)

* Serenity in Reaver trim

* Worst. Landing. Ever.

* River vs. Reavers

* Rebuilding and repainting - the only "down time"

[Xtremehkr]

The only part of the movie I think was lacking was the time where you see when the crew had the time to develop such loyalty for each other. I can see why they all appreciate each others abilities, and how they manage to work so well as a team. Plenty of emphasis was placed on how the different elements of the team strained relations between them all. I would liked to have had a few minutes here and there that showed how they relate to each other when they are not being threatened with certain doom. Given the differences and similarities that exist, even watching periods of the crew just interacting would have helped to justify how they were able to hold things together when times got rough.

Hopefully there is more of that in the sequel. Sappy as it sounds, I think that a minor plot line concerning the interesting aspects of the crews personal interactions could be explored. There were elements of that, like when the crew was watching Mal and Inayas interaction, but not enough to balance the good with the bad.

[eva01]

yes the look river gives Simon is awesome in that scene.

and the "Oh god, oh god, we're all gonna die" from Wash.

But for my favorite quote out of movie and series it still has to be River going up to Jayne when he was not able to move due to medicine, and she said "Also, I can kill you with my brain."

[eva01]

The only part of the movie I think was lacking was the time where you see when the crew had the time to develop such loyalty for each other. I can see why they all appreciate each others abilities, and how they manage to work so well as a team. Plenty of emphasis was placed on how the different elements of the team strained relations between them all. I would liked to have had a few minutes here and there that showed how they relate to each other when they are not being threatened with certain doom. Given the differences and similarities that exist, even watching periods of the crew just interacting would have helped to justify how they were able to hold things together when times got rough.

Hopefully there is more of that in the sequel. Sappy as it sounds, I think that a minor plot line concerning the interesting aspects of the crews personal interactions could be explored. There were elements of that, like when the crew was watching Mal and Inayas interaction, but not enough to balance the good with the bad.

watch the series.

[huck500]

The entire series was word of worth and so is the movie. How did it underperform? It did very well in my opinion, because i heard from at least 10 other people that didn't know about Firefly that they were going to see Serenity.

I say that is not underperforming.

It is impressive that a (great) tv show that almost no one watched until it was on DVD made $10 million opening weekend...but I saw expectations of about $15 million from pretty reliable people. I like that the studio is behind the film, though.

I think that the theater release won't make the production costs + marketing costs back, but DVD sales will.

And since I don't want to complain any more...I loved seeing the beginnings of the crew in flashbacks. Wash's mustache was classic.

Edit: ^^^^That was in an episode, wasn't it...I watched all the shows the day before the movie and it's all running together.... :confused:

But I REALLY liked Serenity disguised as a Reaver ship...THAT was in the movie, right??

[nagromme]

Yes, that was in the movie :) The flashback that WAS in the movie was Simon springing River.

The episode with the stories of how each crew member came aboard was a good one. Kaylee and Jayne had especially good entrances. And Zoe's opinion of Wash :)

[nagromme]

OK, since we may never know for sure... I have a solution for the mystery of the Shepherd. The facts:

* He has a broad knowledge of violence--weapons, pirate "nets," fistfighting, etc.

* His faith, virtue and pacifism are genuine, but he didn't always have them.

* He is familiar with a range of criminal activities.

* And he is ALSO familiar with Alliance operations--including high-level, secret ones.

* His ID card has some code that convinced Alliance personnel to give him priority medical treatment, no questions asked.

* He became a Shepherd late in life and then spent years in the Southdown Abbey before venturing out again.

* Despite his experience with violence, coming face to face with it again aboard Serenity led to a minor personal crisis.

There's only one theory I can think of that cleanly answers all of the above:

* Derria Book is not his real name.

* He was a criminal, maybe not a bad person himself, but involved with the most dangerous kinds of people. People as bad as Niska.

* Something happened to bring about a change of heart.

* Under the promise of witness protection, he became an undercover operative for the Alliance. They gave him a way out, and a way to make some restitution for the things he now regretted.

* As part of a very major Alliance crime-fighting operation, he helped do a lot of damage to the criminals he was with. He was now marked for death.

* After the undercover operations, he was put in witness protection as promised, and given a new identity. Since he had found religion, an abbey was his choice for a hiding place--and a sanctuary from the violence he wished to forget.

* Eventually he dared wander out again, hoping to spread the Word.

* His simple beliefs were challenged on board Serenity. They couldn't stay quite so simple anymore.

* His ID card identifies him as being in witness protection. Seeing that code, the Alliance personnel decided they had better treat the man and not turn him away. Either witness protection carries with it a guarantee of certain privileges, or else the Alliance officers simply feared reprisal if they made a bad call and let Book die.

* He would have liked to tell his friends his story, but feared it would only put them in danger from the same criminals he was hiding from.

What do you think?

Now, Inara's trickier... I can't think of any explanation that fits the facts of her situation. This is why we need sequels :)

[clayj]

My theory about Book is that he was once an Operative himself... something happened to him that challenged his support of the Alliance, and he came to an arrangement with the Alliance: let me go and never allow me to come to any harm, and I won't blab about the stuff that I know. Somewhere there may be a lawyer or a secret stash of his secrets, and now that he's dead, there's a chance that his secrets may come to light. (One of those "in the event of my untimely demise" type deals.)

[nagromme]

I like your lawyer/secrets idea :) I don't think being an Operative explains everything, because Book has knowledge of down-and-dirty crime (different kinds of pirate nets and how they kill the crews, for instance), not just higher-level military type knowledge. But you never know what all an Operative might get involved in. Maybe he BECAME an Operative for the undercover sting :)

Anyway, unexpectedly, I have solved Inara's mystery--and I'm much more sure of it than I am about Book. My Book explanation is just an educated guess, but I'm 99% sure I know Inara's secret, and it's a big one. I picked it up from clues on the DVDs, and I'm sure others have figured it out too. The facts:

* She's a respected Companion on the fast track to the top of her Guild. She has no need to travel the solar system for an income--an easier life is ready and waiting for her at the Academy (and we see that in Serenity).

* If she DID have to travel, she'd be expected to be aboard a luxury liner, not an old junker Firefly transport.

* She's not running from the Guild--she's in contact with them, follows their rules, and seems to be in good standing.

* She's not hiding--she lets herself be seen any and everywhere.

* She's accepting of criminal activity going on around her, despite her law-abiding high-class background.

* She doesn't want to get involved with Mal, despite having real feelings for him.

WARNING: Her story might well be picked up in future movies, and I don't want discussion in this thread to spoil them accidentally! I think this could be a BIG spoiler, so public replies to my theory should probably come with "FUTURE MOVIE SPOILER?" warnings.

So here's her secret, I believe--paste into http://decode.org to view:

Vanen vf grezvanyyl vyy. Fur vf geniryvat gur fbyne flfgrz rvgure sbe n punatr bs rkcrevrapr orsber fur qvrf, be va gur ubcr bs pbzvat npebff fbzr gerngzrag. Fur qbrfa'g jnag gb trg vaibyirq jvgu Zny orpnhfr fur xabjf fur vf yvxryl gb or qrnq fbba.

The clues: things on Firefly that I wouldn't have noticed if the commentary hadn't made me look for them. The commentary refused to explain Inara's mystery, but it did lead me in the right direction I think. One line from Inara in particular takes on a new meaning that can't be accidental. If you're curious, the episodes with the clues are (Decode needed): "Freravgl" and "Bhgbstnf."

[FoxyKaye]

yes the look river gives Simon is awesome in that scene.

and the "Oh god, oh god, we're all gonna die" from Wash.

But for my favorite quote out of movie and series it still has to be River going up to Jayne when he was not able to move due to medicine, and she said "Also, I can kill you with my brain."
Hee hee - that one's been in my signature for a while, but today I just added "I swallowed a bug!" from Serenity - one of my faves that keeps making me chuckle.

[FoxyKaye]

Anyway, unexpectedly, I have solved Inara's mystery--and I'm much more sure of it than I am about Book. My Book explanation is just an educated guess, but I'm 99% sure I know Inara's secret, and it's a big one. I picked it up from clues on the DVDs, and I'm sure others have figured it out too...
Maaaaybe - it's as good an explanation as any. One thing is for certain, there is something deeply personal that motivated her to leave the comfort of the inner worlds - she was definitely on track to become a Priestess, and is by many accounts highly respected as a Companion.

[nagromme]

I forgot the "bug" line. Perfect reaction to extreme peril :D I think I may have to go see the movie again...

"Serenity" is now the second-fastest growing search on Google.

And you can watch it online (the first 9 minutes anyway) here:
http://video.vividas.com/CDN1/3929_Serenity/web/index.html
Kind of gives the wrong impression--that 9-minute lead-in is the only part of the movie with the traditional (aka boring?) sterile sci-fi feel, and you really don't get to meet the main characters! They cut the sample off before the fun begins. But they can't give away the whole movie...

PS, the Wobbly-Headed Doll Caper (aka Trash) is on Firefly tonight! One of my favorite episodes. A perfect chance for people who have seen the movie to meet Mal's OTHER "ex."

[jsw]

I just got back from a week in Finland with no real internet access. I'm glad to see that a spoiler-ridden discussion exists! I have nothing new to add, just my opinions

Frankly, I was somewhat disappointed in the movie. I thought that, as others have mentioned, a good deal of the humor with regard to intra-crew interactions was missing, and also that the treatment of the Tams during the movie did not seem nearly as friendly as the series implied it would be at this point - I would have expected them to be full crew members, or at least treated as members of the family (esp. given the final series episode on the DVD set and where it implied things were going). Inara seemed way too docile for me as well.

I understand Book's death, although I did not like it. I am surprised that there was no more insight into his past - seems like Joss just decided to punt on that one.

And Wash's death? Hated it. Ruined the movie for me. I'd have to think that there were other ways to make us think they might all die, or that perhaps it wasn't critical to the movie that we all thought that in the first place. After his death, I sort of wished they'd all die, going down together. Just hated it. I understand that there might have been real-world reasons for it. But, as far as my love for the Serenity universe is concerned, there's a big hole in my heart now that Wash is dead. Book... well, I'm really annoyed that he dies, but I could live with it. I'm upset about Wash. Thank god we still have Jayne for comic relief.

And, as others have said, I didn't buy The Operative's conversion as a simple result of seeing the Reaver transformation. Seemed too tidy to me.

OK, that said... I enjoyed the movie up until Wash died. Then... it lost all appeal to me.

Of course, I'll see it again anyway and buy the DVD. ;)

[Badradio]

Just got back from seeing the film and wanted to catch up with this thread that I've been avoiding since it started. There's a lot to think about here, so rather than digging around and quoting, I'll just go with the thoughts as they arrive:

Book's Death: Don't know about the real-world reasoning, but he looked ill in the movie - seriously thin in the face. Maybe his few scenes were all he could manage.

Book's Origin: Remember that line that Jubal says in "Objects in Space" - where he sees Book unconscious and says: "He's no shepherd"? I think the theory that he's an ex-operative seems most likely.

Wash's Death: Gutted. Was on a serious downer on the way out of the cinema. I love it when storytellers mess with your expectations though - I forget who said it, but for the first time in a long time, all bets were off at the end of a "Hollywood" movie. I have to admit, I actually said "no!" out loud when it happened.

Blue-gloved Men: Has no one in this thread read the comic series that bridges the tv shows and the film? You see more of them in that, and you find out that it's not just their hands that are blue...

That's all I can think to add for now; still reeling from the film. Was an amazing ride.

<br>

[atszyman]

And Wash's death? Hated it. Ruined the movie for me. I'd have to think that there were other ways to make us think they might all die, or that perhaps it wasn't critical to the movie that we all thought that in the first place. After his death, I sort of wished they'd all die, going down together. Just hated it. I understand that there might have been real-world reasons for it. But, as far as my love for the Serenity universe is concerned, there's a big hole in my heart now that Wash is dead. Book... well, I'm really annoyed that he dies, but I could live with it. I'm upset about Wash. Thank god we still have Jayne for comic relief.

And, as others have said, I didn't buy The Operative's conversion as a simple result of seeing the Reaver transformation. Seemed too tidy to me.

OK, that said... I enjoyed the movie up until Wash died. Then... it lost all appeal to me.

Of course, I'll see it again anyway and buy the DVD. ;)

I disagree, as much as I hated it, the only way to convince the audience that all bets are off is to kill a beloved character brutally so that there is no question in anyone's mind that they are dead. Book was no longer a major character and already dead. This left Mal, River, Kaylee, Zoe, Wash, Simon, Inara, and Jayne.

Jayne is not well liked enough, he's funny but you always get the sense he would betray everyone if he thought he could pull it off. His death would not have had the impact.

Simon can't be killed because someone has to take care of River when she gets out of control, that and he has to "get it on" with Kaylee so she has to live as well.

River is too central a role for sequels so she has to live.

Mal can't go since he's the leader.

This leaves Zoe and Wash. Zoe is the tough one so if you kill her Wash is most likely going to be worthless in a fight. Wash is also the person more people identify with, he's approachable, funny, and extremely likeable. Also just due to where they were seated in the bridge Wash was the easy target. If they don't kill Wash then every injury after that point is going to be the Hollywood cliche close to death and come back at the end injuries. With Wash dead you can't be sure about anyone.

As for the Operative I see three reasons that he converted rather than just the video:
1. The video obviously shakes his faith in the alliance.
2. Mal beat him. The Operative believes he is unbeatable, partly because of the strength of his convictions. Being beaten my Mal makes him start to question not only his skills but his faith as well.
3. Mal let him live. As he sits there watching the video he is also thinking about how he was beat and why his opponent let him live when he wouldn't hesitate to kill a foe.

There are probably more reasons but the three above give a good start as to why he let them go at the end.

[nagromme]

Has no one in this thread read the comic series that bridges the tv shows and the film? You see more of them in that, and you find out that it's not just their hands that are blue...
I'm not a comic reader, but I think I might just have to check those out. I understand they tell why Book is back at the Abbey too. (And maybe they tell how the gang could afford such a nice new Mule!)

Re Wash's death: hated that too (and Book's bothered me almost as much)--but still loved the movie. If it was me I would have preferred to see Zoe killed, because in future movies, seeing Wash cope without Zoe sounds more interesting than the reverse. Plus Zoe's duties overlap Jayne's somewhat.

Actually, I might have picked River since she was my least favorite character (although I see her importance). But I like her better now--and if she's a) sane, b) a genius fighting machine and c) a pilot... that makes her a better character than before. She just had to get there.

But you just KNOW--zero doubt--that if it had continued as a TV show, people would have died on it. Joss Whedon breaks rules, and one that he loves to break is "you don't kill main characters without a LOT of buildup." I wouldn't be surprised if Wash was marked for death from episode one. (And maybe the death will trigger planned changes to Zoe's character too. PROBABLY not as severe as Willow!)

Re the Operative: he was fine, but I didn't like him as much as reviewers did. (Dirty Pretty Things was good BTW.) I don't know that he changes sides, so much as just had the fight taken out of him. He did help in the end, but he was hardly a friend. Mal said he'd kill him next time they met!

It's always possible more is planned for the Operative in future....

I'm going again tomorrow. I didn't think Serenity was going to gain any screens this weekend, but I can say that in MY area (US) it's playing in twice as many theaters, and hasn't lost any time slots either.

PS, as you may already know, the beginning of the new Battlestar Galactica had a fly-by cameo for Serenity (on Caprica)--a tribute to Firefly by the FX team (Zoic) that handles both worlds. But supposedly Serenity ALSO has a tribute to BG! Somewhere in the film, Galactica supposedly makes a nearly-hidden cameo. I'll be looking to see if it's true. A Reaver Galactica would be kinda cool :) Anyone spot the battlestar anywhere? (I'm thinking they might even have used it sneakily as a building, or shrunk down as part of another ship.)

[Xtremehkr]

watch the series.

I have been, and am enjoying it enormously. Tonights episode was a classic.

I'm just sayin' that they movie presented more than a few scenes where it seemed like everyone was about to quit. I just wish they had balanced that with some good times in the movie.

[Xtremehkr]

I still don't understand why Wash and Book had to die. Are there any solid ideas floating around? Or will that be explained in the sequels. I really liked Wash and Book, main characters don't have to die. Give one a limp or something, battle scars are cool.

[nagromme]

Well, "HAVE to" die is a subjective and artistic decision, and not everyone can agree on those things. I really wish they hadn't died--and if I DIDN'T wish that then Joss would have failed to make me care. Twisted as it seems, we're supposed to wish they hadn't died. (Plus, there may have been issues with the actors being unable to commit to future movies? Just like Tara again...)

But I do see the storytelling value of their deaths. And in Joss Whedon's worlds, you have action, comedy and drama all combined, and people do die. It does add real tension watching one of his creations, because beloved characters really CAN die. In some movies/shows you just know that's not going to happen, and it makes everything just a little more artificial.

But again--even if I can understand the deaths on some level--I don't have to like it! Joss created some great characters, and they will be missed.

And I almost forgot--re the Tams' relationship to Mal and the others. Yes, it did seem to have "backslid" compared to the end of Firefly. Partly just necessary to create a self-contained plot arc for the movie. (And maybe the comics explain a little?) But also, there are new reasons for tension: Mal has just started using River for crime (nearly getting her killed by Reavers). And Simon is just revealed to have been hiding some of what he knows about River's abilities and the deadly threat that she might be--to anyone! So Mal and Simon both have good reasons to suddenly be on less friendly terms.

Thus Mal, who previously considered Simon and River crew (see the end of "Ariel"), now talks about them early in the movie as NOT being crew. His feelings have changed. And yet--his actions speak louder than those words. Seeing River go spaztastic is hardly reason for a change of heart. She almost shot him! Seeing that should make Mal LESS likely to want her aboard. But even so, he couldn't go through with the plan to strand them.

(And re Simon knowing more about River's condition from the start than he did on Firefly... I guess all along he DID know more than he let on, and was hiding it! But he didn't know the details--thus the need to visit Ariel's facilities.)

[Badradio]

Well, I've slept on it now and given the events of the movie time to sink in, but they won't; I'm still in shock. That was such a good film! I did leave the cinema wondering where they could take a sequel, thinking that they'd just pick another character and tell their story, but the comments above about a new war and the fall of the Alliance... I like that idea. I thought the start of the movie played a bit too much like another show in the series, but the scope expanded so quickly... if that process continues, this is going to be a fantastic trilogy. I'm not going to say that it could rival Star Wars 1-3 - that trilogy exists within it's own "Star Wars" genre and defies comparison - but in terms of creativity and brave, unpredictable narrative, there's been nothing to beat this in a long time.

[eva01]

honestly how can someone dying ruin a movie for you, thats kinda....

i think the deaths actually made the movie for me, like i honestly thought that they may all be killed, that Mal will get the message out to the 'verse and that the reavers would kill them all. That made it just that more exciting.

Its a good thing that they died or it wouldn't have added the extra suspense that i so craved.

[iPoster]

It's already been dropped by two theaters in my area this weekend. :eek:

I've been telling everyone I know to go see it, since many people, including my parents, haven't even heard of the movie or knew that it was out!

(Way to advertise, Universal) :rolleyes:

Edit:
And the DVD set of the series has jumped from #7 to #4 on the Amazon top selling DVD list since the movie came out! :D

[eva01]

It's already been dropped by two theaters in my area this weekend. :eek:

I've been telling everyone I know to go see it, since many people, including my parents, haven't even heard of the movie or knew that it was out!

(Way to advertise, Universal) :rolleyes:

they did wonderful advertising around here, every theatre has it and i have got a bunch of people to go and see it.

[nagromme]

Must be a lot of regional variation.

Apparently second-Friday's numbers were good (but sound bad). The movie dropped by less than the 60% expected of sci-fi movies in the second weekend, and less than other movies dropped. And Wallace and Gromit--a far more mainstream movie and one children can see--opened about the same as Serenity opened.

Seems to be a low-turnout weekend at the box office overall, but Serenity is holding its own. Now, how many theaters will renew it for a long slow run?

The bottom line of course is that many excellent, critically-acclaimed movies do NOT do great at the box office. If the public didn't lap up garbage, TV and movies would be very different things today. So I'd MUCH MUCH rather see a great movie that did "OK" than a blockbuster Serenity that was garbage. Even if that garbage got sequels. Going "mainstream" isn't worth it.

Which isn't to say the marketing couldn't have been better. If there are sequels, maybe some lessons can be learned for marketing them.

And the weekend's not over yet! I'm off for my second viewing today to spot the things I missed the first time :)

[stcanard]

Must be a lot of regional variation.

I think that's common. I remember the TV series Dark Angel fell into a category like that. In Canada it was CTV's highest rated Friday program. In the US, nobody was watching it so it got cancelled. There were many articles about the frustration of the Canadian networks that this was not an uncommon thing.

Apparently second-Friday's numbers were good (but sound bad). The movie dropped by less than the 60% expected of sci-fi movies in the second weekend, and less than other movies dropped. And Wallace and Gromit--a far more mainstream movie and one children can see--opened about the same as Serenity opened.

That's always been the key -- not how big Serenity opens, but how well it holds onto it's audience.

Don't forget also that the numbers you are seeing are US only (side note; it's frustrating even in Canada I get told what the top movie in the US was, not the top movie in my own country!). Any numbers you see you have to add in Canadian sales, and with the wide international release this week, international sales. Often times a movie that is underappreciated in the US market makes up for it in an international market. DVD sales will almost certainly be a big part of their financial planning.

The big movie theatre here in Richmond (Silvercity Riverport) is still showing it on two screens -- they wouldn't be doing that if it was a disappointing turnout!

[nagromme]

According to Whedonesqu.com, it opened pretty big in the U.K. this weekend. At #2, despite having almost no marketing--even less than the U.S.--until the last minute supposedly?

(If I was in Canada being fed US numbers, that WOULD bug me. Overall international numbers, sure, but numbers that ignore my own country?)

[stcanard]

(If I was in Canada being fed US numbers, that WOULD bug me. Overall international numbers, sure, but numbers that ignore my own country?)

Yeah, it's frustrating all right! According to the local paper Serenity made $10M last weekend ... that's definitely not our number. In general I am unable to actually find a breakdown for the country I actually live in!

I've always figured it's part of the industry's attempts to downplay the revenue numbers -- I notice that almost invariably when a movie's revenue is discussed they talk only US numbers and avoid international numbers, rental revenue, DVD sales, network broadcast contracts etc.

I cynically assume it's a way to make the industry look in more dire straits than it really is, leading to better leverage on tax breaks, "piracy" issues etc.

[joepunk]

Re music: the Ballad of Serenity WAS there... an instrumental version ended the credits. Nice touch. (Although I was hoping the credits would get a full, new, vocal version.)Really? I usually stay for the entire credits but the friends I was with don't. So I left when they did.

Re "2x2, Hands of Blue"--I agree. But you can only get so much in a movie. (They could have had the surgeons wearing blue gloves, though, or the Operative radioing someone in blue gloves.) As for "Blue Sun"... I guess only the most dedicated trivia buffs will ever know why River stabbed Jayne :) The connection to the hands may never be known. (Unless that wave from Miranda had a Blue Sun logo in it... I choose to think Blue Sun developed Miranda's drug.)...After some consideration the "Blue Sun" part could have been a bit too much to explain in just one movie. Anyway, I just hope that there will be a mini-series in the works after all this.

[Xtremehkr]

Well, "HAVE to" die is a subjective and artistic decision, and not everyone can agree on those things. I really wish they hadn't died--and if I DIDN'T wish that then Joss would have failed to make me care. Twisted as it seems, we're supposed to wish they hadn't died. (Plus, there may have been issues with the actors being unable to commit to future movies? Just like Tara again...)

But I do see the storytelling value of their deaths. And in Joss Whedon's worlds, you have action, comedy and drama all combined, and people do die. It does add real tension watching one of his creations, because beloved characters really CAN die. In some movies/shows you just know that's not going to happen, and it makes everything just a little more artificial.

But again--even if I can understand the deaths on some level--I don't have to like it! Joss created some great characters, and they will be missed.

And I almost forgot--re the Tams' relationship to Mal and the others. Yes, it did seem to have "backslid" compared to the end of Firefly. Partly just necessary to create a self-contained plot arc for the movie. (And maybe the comics explain a little?) But also, there are new reasons for tension: Mal has just started using River for crime (nearly getting her killed by Reavers). And Simon is just revealed to have been hiding some of what he knows about River's abilities and the deadly threat that she might be--to anyone! So Mal and Simon both have good reasons to suddenly be on less friendly terms.

Thus Mal, who previously considered Simon and River crew (see the end of "Ariel"), now talks about them early in the movie as NOT being crew. His feelings have changed. And yet--his actions speak louder than those words. Seeing River go spaztastic is hardly reason for a change of heart. She almost shot him! Seeing that should make Mal LESS likely to want her aboard. But even so, he couldn't go through with the plan to strand them.

(And re Simon knowing more about River's condition from the start than he did on Firefly... I guess all along he DID know more than he let on, and was hiding it! But he didn't know the details--thus the need to visit Ariel's facilities.)

Good points, I just really liked those characters. It is more realistic to have main characters die, that is the reality of war, killing is indiscriminate. Ultimately, I think I that elements of realism in fiction serve the overall message in the storyline, and there is a message. The whole concept and theatrical execution are better served through the loss of main characters, it is what happens in reality. Good guys fall just as often as the bad guys.

[Xtremehkr]

honestly how can someone dying ruin a movie for you, thats kinda....

i think the deaths actually made the movie for me, like i honestly thought that they may all be killed, that Mal will get the message out to the 'verse and that the reavers would kill them all. That made it just that more exciting.

Its a good thing that they died or it wouldn't have added the extra suspense that i so craved.

It doesn't really ruin it, but I will miss their presence in the sequels (fingers crossed). The way in which Book and Wash were lost reinforce the more subtle sub-stories.

Hopefully Joss won't cop out and bring them back like Lucas did in Star Wars.

[stcanard]

It doesn't really ruin it, but I will miss their presence in the sequels (fingers crossed). The way in which Book and Wash were lost reinforce the more subtle sub-stories.

Hopefully Joss won't cop out and bring them back like Lucas did in Star Wars.

Well, Whedon has a history of bringing back dead characters.

And he usually does it in a way that we end up wishing they had stayed dead :)

Although this time there's no Willow to do it for them! Hmm, maybe River will find an old book....

[nagromme]

I don't think resurrection is possible in the Serenity world. In the commentary on Firefly Joss said he wasn't going as far toward fantasy in this. No aliens, no intelligent robots, no intelligent spaceships, no magic. In fact, in "Objects In Space" he said that the Serenity-possession thing was going too far (for his vision of the series), but that audiences wouldn't know that so it worked.

Of course, psychic reading is out there! And CAN River "kill you with her brain?" I would think not, but in the Tam Sessions, when she carries out Dr. Mathias' "mission" (guess he got what he deserved in the movie), you really don't see HOW she does it. It looks like a psychic killing, although she could be just off-screen stabbing the guy or something.

Anyway, I can't see any kind of resurrection being anything but really lame and out of place in the Firefly world. And Joss doesn't like lame resurrections. In fact, I can only think of twice that he's done it at all (spoiler warning for Buffy and Angel). Buffy and Spike. Both had magical deaths, and both had a LONG row to hoe to get back to "normal life." No simple resurrection in either case. (I don't count Angel--he wasn't exactly killed, just "sent away.")

[eva01]

It doesn't really ruin it, but I will miss their presence in the sequels (fingers crossed). The way in which Book and Wash were lost reinforce the more subtle sub-stories.

Hopefully Joss won't cop out and bring them back like Lucas did in Star Wars.

oh don't get me wrong i will miss them all too.

And Joss > Lucas thats all i have to say about that one ;)

[Xtremehkr]

And Joss > Lucas thats all i have to say about that one ;)

That would be great, if Lucas were to let Joss handle the dialogue.

[stcanard]

In fact, I can only think of twice that he's done it at all (spoiler warning for Buffy and Angel). Buffy and Spike. Both had magical deaths, and both had a LONG row to hoe to get back to "normal life." No simple resurrection in either case. (I don't count Angel--he wasn't exactly killed, just "sent away.")

Don't forget Joyce (Buffy & Dawn's mom), but I think that one was better left buried!

If you count the show Angel, the resurrection count gets much higher (Darla and Harmony come to mind, but I think there were more). Again, only for magical deaths, or magical creatures.

But you're correct, I don't see resurrections happening in Firefly. It doesn't fit with the feel of the show.

[nagromme]

Well, I didn't count ghosts/visions or flashbacks, but you're right I forgot about the "Monkey's Paw" thing with Joyce. (As for Joyce's OTHER return... well, I'll have no trouble forgetting that since the show's creators seem to have forgotten it too!)

Now, flashbacks are certainly fair game in Serenity sequels.

Also, on watching the Tam Sessions again, I don't think it's a psychic killing: I see that River's hand is all bloody. Don't know what she did to him but it was physical.

And on second watching of the movie I have another favorite to add: Jayne being afraid of the safe word :D What a classic moron.

[sushi]

* Worst. Landing. Ever.
Useful real world phrase used by IP's around the world! :D