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MacRumors
Jan 8, 2013, 04:41 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/08/apple-seeds-build-12d50-of-os-x-beta-10-8-3-to-developers/)


Apple today seeded build 12D50 (http://9to5mac.com/2013/01/08/apple-seeds-os-x-mountain-lion-10-8-3-build-12d50-to-developers/) of OS X 10.8.3 Mountain Lion to developers, the fifth beta release reports 9to5Mac. The first 10.8.3 beta was seeded back in November (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/26/apple-seeds-first-beta-of-os-x-10-8-3-to-developers/), and the third and fourth releases were released in December (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/12/18/apple-seeds-build-12d43-of-os-x-beta-10-8-3-to-developers/).

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/01/1083.png
Though the update comes with no known issues or new features, as before Apple has asked developers to focus on AirPlay, AirPort, Game Center, Graphics Drivers, and Safari in their testing. Registered developers can download it via the Apple Developer Page (https://developer.apple.com/).

Article Link: Apple Seeds Build 12D50 of OS X Beta 10.8.3 to Developers (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/08/apple-seeds-build-12d50-of-os-x-beta-10-8-3-to-developers/)



DJJAZZYJET
Jan 8, 2013, 04:49 PM
Image (http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/01/1083.png)
Though the update comes with no known issues or new features, as before Apple has asked developers to focus on AirPlay, AirPort, Game Center, Graphics Drivers, and Safari in their testing. Registered developers can download it via the Apple Developer Page (https://developer.apple.com/).

GRAPHICS DRIVERS!!!!!!!!!!

KattDaDon
Jan 8, 2013, 04:59 PM
Image (http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/01/1083.png)
Though the update comes with no known issues or new features, as before Apple has asked developers to focus on AirPlay, AirPort, Game Center, Graphics Drivers, and Safari in their testing. Registered developers can download it via the Apple Developer Page (https://developer.apple.com/).

GRAPHICS DRIVERS!!!!!!!!!!

I don't get why you re wrote this cause its already there in the article above

sshhoott
Jan 8, 2013, 05:01 PM
Here's what needs to be fixed:
Issues related with Graphic drivers: Choppy Animations, Memory Leaks when apps use GPU/hardware acceleration, Kernal Panics.

Other problems: CRAZY Shutdown times, poor battery life.

Here's what should be added: GPU accelerated scrolling in Mail, Preview (similar to Safari), option to do a three dinger swipe in all apps when it's enabled in Trackpad settings.


Edit: I have a MBP 13" mid 2010. But I've also seen most of these problems on RetinaMBPs

rudychidiac
Jan 8, 2013, 05:02 PM
I don't get why you re wrote this cause its already there in the article above

They wrote "GRAPHIC DRIVEEEEERRRRRS" as well...

Peace
Jan 8, 2013, 05:03 PM
Here's what needs to be fixed:
Issues related with Graphic drivers: Choppy Animations, Memory Leaks when apps use GPU/hardware acceleration, Kernal Panics.

Other problems: CRAZY Shutdown times, poor battery life.

Here's what should be added: GPU accelerated scrolling in Mail, Preview (similar to Safari), option to do a three dinger swipe in all apps when it's enabled in Trackpad settings.

Do you have a retina MBP by any chance ?

KattDaDon
Jan 8, 2013, 05:04 PM
They wrote "GRAPHIC DRIVEEEEERRRRRS" as well...

Oh didn't see that. My bad :rolleyes:

jakesteramma
Jan 8, 2013, 05:08 PM
I agree with the slow shutdown times. I had a 2007 iMac with Mountain Lion. I put Snow Leopard back on it to sell it.

Mountain Lion: 30-35 seconds to shutdown
Snow Leopard: 5 seconds to shutdown

Even with my newer 2011 iMac, shutdown times are around 30 seconds. It doesn't bother me. I just find it strange. :D

jackhdev
Jan 8, 2013, 05:10 PM
Fix the weird rendering issues in Safari 6 and fix the keychain issues with Messages (still unable to use the app).

Peace
Jan 8, 2013, 05:12 PM
I agree with the slow shutdown times. I had a 2007 iMac with Mountain Lion. I put Snow Leopard back on it to sell it.

Mountain Lion: 30-35 seconds to shutdown
Snow Leopard: 5 seconds to shutdown

Even with my newer 2011 iMac, shutdown times are around 30 seconds. It doesn't bother me. I just find it strange. :D

Well see now. Macs aren't used to being shut down or rebooted. That's a Windows thing.

:D

KdParker
Jan 8, 2013, 05:33 PM
I agree with the slow shutdown times. I had a 2007 iMac with Mountain Lion. I put Snow Leopard back on it to sell it.

Mountain Lion: 30-35 seconds to shutdown
Snow Leopard: 5 seconds to shutdown

Even with my newer 2011 iMac, shutdown times are around 30 seconds. It doesn't bother me. I just find it strange. :D

I would bother me....that is too slow.

jakesteramma
Jan 8, 2013, 05:37 PM
I would bother me....that is too slow.

I guess it doesn't bother me too much for two reasons.

1. I've resorted to barely ever shutting it down and just sleeping it.
2. The crap-tastic PC's I work with every day at my job take 2-3 minutes to shut down and 5-10 minutes to start up. I guess it's pretty awesome by comparison! LOL!

bushido
Jan 8, 2013, 05:37 PM
Here's what needs to be fixed:
Issues related with Graphic drivers: Choppy Animations, Memory Leaks when apps use GPU/hardware acceleration, Kernal Panics.

Other problems: CRAZY Shutdown times, poor battery life.

Here's what should be added: GPU accelerated scrolling in Mail, Preview (similar to Safari), option to do a three dinger swipe in all apps when it's enabled in Trackpad settings.


Edit: I have a MBP 13" mid 2010. But I've also seen most of these problems on RetinaMBPs

I agree with the slow shutdown times. I had a 2007 iMac with Mountain Lion. I put Snow Leopard back on it to sell it.

Mountain Lion: 30-35 seconds to shutdown
Snow Leopard: 5 seconds to shutdown

Even with my newer 2011 iMac, shutdown times are around 30 seconds. It doesn't bother me. I just find it strange. :D

same ... at first i thought its the custom ssd in my old mbp on ML but now i got my brandnew rmbp and the same thing is happening

daneoni
Jan 8, 2013, 05:39 PM
Here's what needs to be fixed:
Issues related with Graphic drivers: Choppy Animations, Memory Leaks when apps use GPU/hardware acceleration, Kernal Panics.

Other problems: CRAZY Shutdown times, poor battery life.

Here's what should be added: GPU accelerated scrolling in Mail, Preview (similar to Safari), option to do a three dinger swipe in all apps when it's enabled in Trackpad settings.


Edit: I have a MBP 13" mid 2010. But I've also seen most of these problems on RetinaMBPs

apple.com/feedback

lcmazza
Jan 8, 2013, 05:43 PM
Here's what needs to be fixed:

1. Apple's laziness to launch an OS with so many glitches in their OWN unique hardware.

2. Stop adding BS social features and focus on quality.

3. If Apple wants to add new features, then start copying Windows 8 GREAT file copying and management. That is what desktop OSes do, anyway. This is not an iPad.

bedifferent
Jan 8, 2013, 06:10 PM
Here's what needs to be fixed:

1. Apple's laziness to launch an OS with so many glitches in their OWN unique hardware.

2. Stop adding BS social features and focus on quality.

3. If Apple wants to add new features, then start copying Windows 8 GREAT file copying and management. That is what desktop OSes do, anyway. This is not an iPad.

You can thank Craig Federighi for this as he took over as Senior Vice President of Software Engineering after Bertrand Serlet left in 2011. Serlet moved to Apple with Jobs from NeXT and was Senior VP in S.E., and was mainly responsible for Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard. Criag Federighi is a hack, responsible for allowing Forstall to incorporate iOS **** into OS X while dropping the ball on improved graphics drivers and OpenGL Core support, a revised HFS+ Finder system, lack of full multiple display support, "Mission Control", horrible memory management, and pushing for an annual release cycle. The odds are, it won't change.

EDIT Read post #85, as some have called my information into question I have added links and facts to support that Craig Federighi was head of OS X development two years prior to Serlet's March 2011 announcement for departure. Craig Federighi has been head of OS X development since his return to Apple in 2009.

Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 08:35 am
Serlet joined Apple in 1997 and has been involved in the definition, development and creation of Mac OS X. Before his time at Apple, Serlet spent four years at Xerox PARC, then joined NeXT with Jobs in 1989. He holds a doctorate in Computer Science from the University of Orsay, France.

"I've worked with Steve for 22 years and have had an incredible time developing products at both NeXT and Apple, but at this point, I want to focus less on products and more on science," Serlet said.

He will be replaced by Craig Federighi, Apple's vice president of Mac Software Engineering. In his new role, Federighi will assume Serlet's responsibilities and will report directly to Jobs.

Federighi is responsible for the development of Mac OS X, and has been managing the Mac OS software engineering group for the past two years. It was Federighi who gave a live demonstration of Mac OS X 10.7 Lion at a media event last October.

"Craig has done a great job managing the Mac OS team for the past two years," Serlet said. "Lion is a great release and the transition should be seamless."

Federighi worked at NeXT, followed by Apple, and spent a decade at Ariba where he held several roles including vice president of Internet Services and chief technology officer. He returned to Apple in 2009 to lead Mac OS X engineering. Federighi holds a Master of Science degree in Computer Science and a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science from the University of California, Berkeley.

Risco
Jan 8, 2013, 06:10 PM
Is shutdown speed fixed, or still buggered?

Peace
Jan 8, 2013, 06:16 PM
Is shutdown speed fixed, or still buggered?

I decided to test this on a 2012 cMBP. SSD

After closing all apps I shut it down. The timer started when I clicked on the pop up menu to shut down.

cmChimera
Jan 8, 2013, 06:20 PM
I decided to test this on a 2012 cMBP. SSD

After closing all apps I shut it down. The timer started when I clicked on the pop up menu to shut down. That seems to be pretty reasonable.

Here's what needs to be fixed:

1. Apple's laziness to launch an OS with so many glitches in their OWN unique hardware.

2. Stop adding BS social features and focus on quality.

3. If Apple wants to add new features, then start copying Windows 8 GREAT file copying and management. That is what desktop OSes do, anyway. This is not an iPad. I don't want to see Apple copy anything from Windows 8. And I like some of the social features as well.

Risco
Jan 8, 2013, 06:28 PM
I decided to test this on a 2012 cMBP. SSD

After closing all apps I shut it down. The timer started when I clicked on the pop up menu to shut down.

That sounds good, this is with the 12D50 build? If so has it improved for you on previous builds as I don't have an SSD.

Peace
Jan 8, 2013, 06:33 PM
That sounds good, this is with the 12D50 build? If so has it improved for you on previous builds as I don't have an SSD.

Honestly I couldn't say with all certainty that it's faster since I rarely shut down my Mac. But it did seem to be a bit faster.

I normally don't pay attention to that type of thing.

tooshaggy
Jan 8, 2013, 07:13 PM
Wow!!!! Safari is ......... safari! You thought I was going to say it's faster, didn't you!:eek:

Gemütlichkeit
Jan 8, 2013, 07:23 PM
Apple's OSX team really needs to focus on refining the OS instead of releasing new features every year.

rmwebs
Jan 8, 2013, 07:32 PM
Apple's OSX team really needs to focus on refining the OS instead of releasing new features every year.

That's what snow leopard was for. Even still lion and mountain lion didn't really get any compelling features. Just social crap and dumbing down of a lot of stuff to make it more like ios (Quicktime being a prime example - they remove most of its preferences for no reason at all)

Dave-Z
Jan 8, 2013, 07:49 PM
How about fixing that AESendMessage() bug...

daneoni
Jan 8, 2013, 08:10 PM
That's what snow leopard was for. Even still lion and mountain lion didn't really get any compelling features. Just social crap and dumbing down of a lot of stuff to make it more like ios (Quicktime being a prime example - they remove most of its preferences for no reason at all)

Quicktime 7 has a 32-bit API that is ancient. 64-bit is the future but taking Quicktime 7 to that future isn't a straightforward process (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6/6/) and will take time. And if you owned Quicktime 7 Pro, it still runs just fine on Mountain Lion. Its not like Apple yanked it or 'dumbed it down' for fun-sies. Also social/cloud integration isn't crap, its where we are in contemporary technology.

BigJohno
Jan 8, 2013, 08:35 PM
Quicktime 7 has a 32-bit API that is ancient. 64-bit is the future but taking Quicktime 7 to that future isn't a straightforward process (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6/6/) and will take time. And if you owned Quicktime 7 Pro, it still runs just fine on Mountain Lion. Its not like Apple yanked it or 'dumbed it down' for fun-sies. Also social/cloud integration isn't crap, its where we are in contemporary technology.

Well said.

foidulus
Jan 8, 2013, 09:00 PM
Quicktime 7 has a 32-bit API that is ancient. 64-bit is the future but taking Quicktime 7 to that future isn't a straightforward process (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6/6/) and will take time. And if you owned Quicktime 7 Pro, it still runs just fine on Mountain Lion. Its not like Apple yanked it or 'dumbed it down' for fun-sies. Also social/cloud integration isn't crap, its where we are in contemporary technology.

Well the problem is that they had a pretty bad "false start" on modernizing Quicktime with the QTKit API...that API sort of went nowhere and it looked like Apple was having problems extending the API to do anything useful, which is why the re-wrote the entire A/V library from scratch starting in Lion.... That API has a lot more promise than QTKit, but obviously adoption is going to take time.

Eithanius
Jan 8, 2013, 09:32 PM
They wrote "GRAPHIC DRIVEEEEERRRRRS" as well...

SO.....? :mad:

There's a reason why people are screaming GRAPHICS DRIVEEEEERRRRRS...!!!!

Graphics have been sucky ever since LION....! Read again LION....! Read again LION....!

Even on MOUNTAIN LION (Read again MOUNTAIN LION.....!), it still leak memory like there's no tomorrow....

What makes you (or any other people who says it's stated there GRAPHICS DRIVEEEEERRRRRS) think they have solved the issue with a minor (2 digit build) update...? :mad::mad:

el-John-o
Jan 8, 2013, 09:52 PM
You can thank Criag Federighi for this as he took over as Senior Vice President of Software Engineering after Bertrand Serlet left in 2011. Serlet moved to Apple with Jobs from NeXT and was Senior VP in S.E., and was mainly responsible for Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard. Criag Federighi is a hack, responsible for allowing Forstall to incorporate iOS **** into OS X while dropping the ball on improved graphics drivers and OpenGL Core support, a revised HFS+ Finder system, lack of full multiple display support, "Mission Control", horrible memory management, and pushing for an annual release cycle. The odds are, it won't change.

Just a question, what is the issue with dual monitors? I am quite pleased with how well Mountain Lion works with multiple monitors. What features are lacking that are present in other OS'es or in previous versions of OS X?

Just curious. Evidently there's something I don't know about!

Peace
Jan 8, 2013, 10:06 PM
Well the problem is that they had a pretty bad "false start" on modernizing Quicktime with the QTKit API...that API sort of went nowhere and it looked like Apple was having problems extending the API to do anything useful, which is why the re-wrote the entire A/V library from scratch starting in Lion.... That API has a lot more promise than QTKit, but obviously adoption is going to take time.

Apple still uses the Carbon QTKit framework.

50548
Jan 8, 2013, 10:08 PM
Does someone, ANYONE, know if the mdworker, sandboxing and wake-from-sleep Ethernet issues are fixed? 10.8.2 is easily the worst 10.x.x release in Apple's history!

mentaluproar
Jan 8, 2013, 10:19 PM
That's what snow leopard was for. Even still lion and mountain lion didn't really get any compelling features. Just social crap and dumbing down of a lot of stuff to make it more like ios (Quicktime being a prime example - they remove most of its preferences for no reason at all)

I like quicktime X more than VLC. Too bad next to nothing plays properly in it.

I agree that the next OS needs to snow leopard-like polish. Stop rethinking execution, you have that right already, Apple. Instead, rethink the core of the OS. I understand Mountain Lion is much heavier than Tiger, but when my 700 mhz G4 iMac running Tiger boots up & logs on in mere seconds and Mountain Lion takes...well, longer, you have problems.

It pretty much confirms what I was worried about with the switch to Intel. Apple developers are getting lazy and making the system work harder, not smarter.

el-John-o
Jan 8, 2013, 10:21 PM
I like quicktime X more than VLC. Too bad next to nothing plays properly in it.

I agree that the next OS needs to snow leopard-like polish. Stop rethinking execution, you have that right already, Apple. Instead, rethink the core of the OS. I understand Mountain Lion is much heavier than Tiger, but when my 700 mhz G4 iMac running Tiger machine boots up & logs on in mere seconds and Mountain Lion takes...well, longer, you have problems.

It pretty much confirms what I was worried about with the switch to Intel. Apple developers are getting lazy and making the system work harder, not smarter.

While I agree with what you are saying, I don't think boot times are the only benchmark. My old IBM MS-Dos machine was instant on. Just a nature of the OS and the machine it was on. I'd rather take a full featured OS that takes a minute to boot over a very old instant on command line OS!

Extreme examples, yes, but the point is I'm willing to sacrifice some boot up performance for once-booted-up performance, and for features.

Unfortunately, I don't know if ML does that...

mentaluproar
Jan 8, 2013, 10:25 PM
Agreed, it's a poor benchmark, but it was also the most radical one I can come up with.

Another thing I loathe about Lion and Mountain Lion is the interface. I love mission control, and the lack of multiple workspaces is the number one irritant I have with windows machines. I'm referring to how Apple is whitewashing the entire OS. The buttons were round and friendly looking, with a shine and glow. The dock was old and outdated, but friendly. Really old versions of OS X had pin striping, which was subtle, but still made the OS look less stale.

Apple has been stripping out these lovely things. The interface feels cold and unfriendly. The biggest draw for windows 8 to me is the color (well, live tiles too).

I wish they would bring back the friendly aesthetics that made PC users cringe.

JohnDoe98
Jan 8, 2013, 10:32 PM
Quicktime 7 has a 32-bit API that is ancient. 64-bit is the future but taking Quicktime 7 to that future isn't a straightforward process (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6/6/) and will take time. And if you owned Quicktime 7 Pro, it still runs just fine on Mountain Lion. Its not like Apple yanked it or 'dumbed it down' for fun-sies. Also social/cloud integration isn't crap, its where we are in contemporary technology.

From the article you reference:

Yes, it's going to be a long, long time before QuickTime 7 disappears completely from Mac OS X (at least Apple was kind enough not to call it "QuickTime Classic"), but the path forward is clear. With each new release of Mac OS X, expect the capabilities of QuickTime X to expand, and the number of things that still require QuickTime 7 to decrease. In Mac OS X 10.7, for example, I imagine that QuickTime X will gain support for plug-ins. And surely by Mac OS X 10.8, QuickTime X will have complete video editing support. All this will be happening beneath the unifying facade of QTKit until, eventually, the QuickTime 7 back-end is no longer needed at all.

Now I don't see any expansion whatsoever since it was first released, which is why some of us are annoyed and even pissed off about the lack of progress on Quicktime X. Apple isn't to be excused in this regard.

portishead
Jan 8, 2013, 10:34 PM
I'm selling my Retina MBP as soon as Haswell chips come out on a new rMBP or MBA. Too many graphics issues. I'm not sure if it's Intel's fault or Apples, or manufacturing issue, but my graphics card freezes way too much.

mentaluproar
Jan 8, 2013, 10:36 PM
Now I don't see any expansion whatsoever since it was first released, which is why some of us are annoyed and even pissed off about the lack of progress on Quicktime X. Apple isn't to be excused in this regard.

They added social features. Uploading video clips from Quicktime X to vimeo and facebook is MUCH easier now. It's surprising how useful that is.

Without Perian though, Quicktime X is dead. I really hate VLC too, but I guess I'll be stuck with it. :(

JohnDoe98
Jan 8, 2013, 10:43 PM
They added social features. Uploading video clips from Quicktime X to vimeo and facebook is MUCH easier now. It's surprising how useful that is.

Without Perian though, Quicktime X is dead. I really hate VLC too, but I guess I'll be stuck with it. :(

MPlayerX is ok.

el-John-o
Jan 8, 2013, 11:05 PM
Agreed, it's a poor benchmark, but it was also the most radical one I can come up with.

Another thing I loathe about Lion and Mountain Lion is the interface. I love mission control, and the lack of multiple workspaces is the number one irritant I have with windows machines. I'm referring to how Apple is whitewashing the entire OS. The buttons were round and friendly looking, with a shine and glow. The dock was old and outdated, but friendly. Really old versions of OS X had pin striping, which was subtle, but still made the OS look less stale.

Apple has been stripping out these lovely things. The interface feels cold and unfriendly. The biggest draw for windows 8 to me is the color (well, live tiles too).

I wish they would bring back the friendly aesthetics that made PC users cringe.


I absolutely agree. Perhaps others would disagree with me, but, bring back the lamp-style iMac (with modern hardware of course) and the aqua interface, and I'd be in heaven.

I remember when Mac OS REALLY started to look good, with OS 9. My Windows 98 machine, at the time, was so ugly, and stale, and pixely. But my OS 9 machine had fruit colored status bars and lots of cool interface features. Subtle and not necessarily necessary for performance, but you know, it's pleasant to use a good looking machine. The unofficial Apple tag line was always 'the back of our machines look better than the front of theirs', and I think the same was true of the OS, it looked better.

Granted, I still love Mountain Lion, but I do miss the old aqua OS themes, the sort of stainless steel windows, the pin striping, etc. Oh well! Times, they are a changin'!

I do, however, really like the launchpad and the notification center, other iOS-ish goodies. I don't think Apple is trying to turn my computer into an iPad, I think they are just thinking 'Hey, you know what, it's really nice swiping between a couple pages of apps and tapping the one you want, why doesn't OS X do that?'. I really love it. And although I find the multi-touch gestures for the notification center less than reliable, I do like it.

Edit: I should clarify... EARLY versions of Aqua, like Panther. I LOVED the way Panther looked!

mentaluproar
Jan 8, 2013, 11:46 PM
I loved brushed steel! It was like a windowblinds skin that actually fit!

el-John-o
Jan 9, 2013, 12:00 AM
I loved brushed steel! It was like a windowblinds skin that actually fit!

I'd actually love to find a 'theme' for OSX Mountain Lion that made it look like Cheetah or even Panther...

Maybe it's just the nostalgia of being younger and even geekier when OS X came out, the return of Steve Jobs, Apple becoming relevant again... even though it had it's downfalls I was just mesmerized with the look of OS X back then (especially compared to the beige wonders we got in the PC side), would love to have my modern mac look like that!

Still holding out for the return of the iMac G4 in a modern variation though! I STILL think that is, hands down, the best looking computer in history.

mentaluproar
Jan 9, 2013, 12:46 AM
It could be an anniversary/limited edition thing. It would sell very well with this audience.

freedevil
Jan 9, 2013, 12:49 AM
If we are on a yearly OS cycle, shouldn't updates for ML be coming out faster? We have6-8 months for 10.9.

el-John-o
Jan 9, 2013, 12:49 AM
It could be an anniversary/limited edition thing. It would sell very well with this audience.

Provided the price is right, sure. We're at just over 10 years of OSX. The Bondi Blue iMac was released in 1998, so 2013 is 15 years. Sounds like a perfect time to release the 15th anniversary edition iMac, an i5 or i7 based 20" iMac G4! Provided the price wasn't ridiculous (like apples last 'anniversary macintosh'), I would absolutely grab one up!

I'd love to mod a G4 20" iMac to use as a second display. I just love those things! Some find them tacky, but not me..

ikir
Jan 9, 2013, 01:00 AM
That's what snow leopard was for. Even still lion and mountain lion didn't really get any compelling features. Just social crap and dumbing down of a lot of stuff to make it more like ios (Quicktime being a prime example - they remove most of its preferences for no reason at all)

Ehm Lion is full of new features! Even invisible ones like much more faster 3D graphics! If you say from 10.7 you get only social features you are trolling! I use airdrop, iCloud, AirPlay, iMessage, everyday! Safari is faster, mail is awesome! I use Game Center too...

----------

I'm selling my Retina MBP as soon as Haswell chips come out on a new rMBP or MBA. Too many graphics issues. I'm not sure if it's Intel's fault or Apples, or manufacturing issue, but my graphics card freezes way too much.

Stop using your laptop on the bed

----------

SO.....? :mad:

There's a reason why people are screaming GRAPHICS DRIVEEEEERRRRRS...!!!!

Graphics have been sucky ever since LION....! Read again LION....! Read again LION....!

Even on MOUNTAIN LION (Read again MOUNTAIN LION.....!), it still leak memory like there's no tomorrow....

What makes you (or any other people who says it's stated there GRAPHICS DRIVEEEEERRRRRS) think they have solved the issue with a minor (2 digit build) update...? :mad::mad:

It is the opposite, 3D under 10.7 is much more faster. This is the reason most modern games require 10.7 at least.
http://ikir.ikirsector.it/newsitem.php?id=38

mentaluproar
Jan 9, 2013, 01:13 AM
Ehm Lion is full of new features! Even invisible ones like much more faster 3D graphics! If you say from 10.7 you get only social features you are trolling! I use airdrop, iCloud, AirPlay, iMessage, everyday! Safari is faster, mail is awesome! I use Game Center too...

----------



Stop using your laptop on the bed

----------



It is the opposite, 3D under 10.7 is much more faster. This is the reason most modern games require 10.7 at least.
http://ikir.ikirsector.it/newsitem.php?id=38

Nobody uses Game Center. It was a dumb idea on the Xbox, and it's a dumb idea here.

sshhoott
Jan 9, 2013, 01:13 AM
apple.com/feedback

My friend, you won't believe how many feedbacks I've sent. Essays upon essays but nothing happens.

mentaluproar
Jan 9, 2013, 01:14 AM
Provided the price is right, sure. We're at just over 10 years of OSX. The Bondi Blue iMac was released in 1998, so 2013 is 15 years. Sounds like a perfect time to release the 15th anniversary edition iMac, an i5 or i7 based 20" iMac G4! Provided the price wasn't ridiculous (like apples last 'anniversary macintosh'), I would absolutely grab one up!

I'd love to mod a G4 20" iMac to use as a second display. I just love those things! Some find them tacky, but not me..

I loved the design on the G4. Take one apart and really enjoy the design. Other than ventilation, they were excellent.

paronga
Jan 9, 2013, 01:27 AM
surely the fact that we now have FCX which uses the QTX backend is evidence that progress has been made?

although i do find that the app QuickTime X can't seem to play anything and i loath VLC.

sshhoott
Jan 9, 2013, 01:38 AM
You can thank Criag Federighi for this as he took over as Senior Vice President of Software Engineering after Bertrand Serlet left in 2011. Serlet moved to Apple with Jobs from NeXT and was Senior VP in S.E., and was mainly responsible for Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard. Criag Federighi is a hack, responsible for allowing Forstall to incorporate iOS **** into OS X while dropping the ball on improved graphics drivers and OpenGL Core support, a revised HFS+ Finder system, lack of full multiple display support, "Mission Control", horrible memory management, and pushing for an annual release cycle. The odds are, it won't change.

I couldn't agree with you more. Criag Federighi seriously needs to get his act together and take a leadership role that once represented such great and flawless Mac software. My blood has been boiling since the release of Lion and now Mountain Lion. There is so much focus on completely useless features and iOSification. I mean Apple has lost its touch from truly making the best desktop operating system. The OS X Kernel HASN'T BEEN UPDATED MUCH SINCE SNOW LEOPARD! Yes, SL, Lion, and ML all pretty much have the same Kernel, which explains the crazy memory usage and random Kernel Panics.

I don't know if Apple is being lazy or just greedy because Macs now are just a small part of their overall business.

Eithanius
Jan 9, 2013, 01:49 AM
It is the opposite, 3D under 10.7 is much more faster. This is the reason most modern games require 10.7 at least.
http://ikir.ikirsector.it/newsitem.php?id=38

Sorry, I'm not into games, I'm into GPU distributed computing... As long as Lion and Mountain Lion eats up graphics memory and crashes BOINC apps, graphics sucks...

And please don't send me private messages with useless benchmarks... I don't read Italian or whatever romance languages you're associated with...

----------



I don't know if Apple is being lazy or just greedy because Macs now are just a small part of their overall business.

It's both...!

Asclepio
Jan 9, 2013, 02:09 AM
craig federighi is the worst thing happened to apple

Eithanius
Jan 9, 2013, 02:25 AM
craig federighi is the worst thing happened to apple

I couldn't agree with you more. Criag Federighi seriously needs to get his act together and take a leadership role that once represented such great and flawless Mac software. My blood has been boiling since the release of Lion and now Mountain Lion. There is so much focus on completely useless features and iOSification. I mean Apple has lost its touch from truly making the best desktop operating system. The OS X Kernel HASN'T BEEN UPDATED MUCH SINCE SNOW LEOPARD! Yes, SL, Lion, and ML all pretty much have the same Kernel, which explains the crazy memory usage and random Kernel Panics.

I don't know if Apple is being lazy or just greedy because Macs now are just a small part of their overall business.

That's a reason why I called him Ferengi... it is synonymous with greed, which Apple has become lately...

tywebb13
Jan 9, 2013, 02:25 AM
I wouldn't be so quick to criticise iosification.

For example airplay mirroring came first on the ipad2

Then they introduced it in mountain lion for macs with sandybridge and ivybridge processors.

This is very good stuff.

Contrast that with what microsoft have done with windows 8 to make your computer look like a phone ..............YUCK!!!!

Daniel B
Jan 9, 2013, 02:39 AM
Hi,

Surprised to see so many posts about shutdown time. Should be rare for most users. For me, less than once a month.

To me (mid 2009 MBP) and many others, the real problem is battery life. ML cut battery life in half. I can no longer watch an iTunes rental movie, without plugging in. I fear that ML has done permanent damage, which would explain why 10.8.2 did not fix it.

Daniel

rmwebs
Jan 9, 2013, 03:31 AM
Ehm Lion is full of new features! Even invisible ones like much more faster 3D graphics! If you say from 10.7 you get only social features you are trolling! I use airdrop, iCloud, AirPlay, iMessage, everyday! Safari is faster, mail is awesome! I use Game Center too

Firstly, its against forum rules to accuse people of trolling (not to mention highly pathetic). Secondly I'm not trolling. I'm stating fact.

Its a case of it only being a feature for the select few people that use it. Nothing 'big' has come to OS X in a long time now short of welcomed performance improvements.

Lets actually look at it objectively:

Game center - It has next to no real use if you dont do multiplayer gaming heavily on your mac. Gaming on the mac is already fairly niche (although granted it is growing). Even then, who the hell needs it? Seriously it's such a minuscule usage market. The biggest annoyance is that some tit decided to disable the ability to delete it.

Mail - It's a good app. But its only a good app if you need it. With the likes of very well made webmail clients, it's not something I'd personally ever want to use. Gmail and Outlook webmail clients do a pretty amazing job, and are updated a hell of a lot more often than Mail.app is.

AirDrop - A useful little feature, doesnt work for me however. Never has done, and never really tried to fix it. Certainly not worthy of being listed as a major OS feature.

iCloud - I had high hopes for it. But a measly 5GB free limit, and piss poor performance outside the US made it very much an annoyance more than a feature. Dropbox and Google Drive do a way better job of file syncing. The only plus of iCloud is storing notes in it, and using Photo Stream...assuming you dont hit your limit within the first 15 minutes of using the darn thing! At the end of the day, it's just MobileMe rebranded after the monumental mess they made of it.

Safari - Cant really include that. It's not a core part of the OS. It's a downloadable app.

Drill into the features of mountain lion. Look at Apple's page on it. The feature list really is quite pathetic.

Notification Center - it does an 'ok' job but Growl is still way more convenient than having to keep opening up some silly hidden sidebar that's been bodged into the top corner of the screen. Most apps still use growl however, and will do for the foreseeable future. Especially given that Apple are locking down the OS X features to only work with MAS apps.

Reminders - Should be an optional app in the MAS, not built into the system.
Notes - The same as reminders.

iMessage - Nice. But never works for me on any of my machines. Spends ages spinning a wheel only to tell me it couldnt connect to the Apple servers. Littlesnitch doesnt even show it trying.
Facetime - Same situation as iMessage
(A note about both iMessage and Facetime - dont forget that these replaced iChat. So only half a feature there really)

Power Nap - Not a notable feature
Dictation - Only a feature if you do a lot of writing
Sharing - Only a feature if you want to annoy people on Facebook and Twitter by posting junk all the time.
Facebook/Twitter Integration - I'd rather not have Facebook baked into the OS - there's no need for that - EVER.

Airplay - possibly the best feature of Mountain Lion. This one actually has its uses!

GateKeeper - No. Just No. If you think this is a good idea, you either dont understand anything about tech, or are very naive.

Then they list "Over 200 new features". Most of which are individual tiny things like reordering table headers using voice over - thats not worthy of being called a feature. I'm not exaggerating here either - thats actually listed as one of the 200 features: http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html

Am I being negative? You bet your ass I am. However out of everything I've listed as a "Feature" of Mountain Lion. I can honestly say that I've only ever found Airplay to be helpful. Even then I've only used it once in a blue moon.

Its not as if I'm a light user either. I'm on my mac from 8:30AM to about 6:00PM Mon-Fri working.

----------

Quicktime 7 has a 32-bit API that is ancient. 64-bit is the future but taking Quicktime 7 to that future isn't a straightforward process (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6/6/) and will take time. And if you owned Quicktime 7 Pro, it still runs just fine on Mountain Lion. Its not like Apple yanked it or 'dumbed it down' for fun-sies. Also social/cloud integration isn't crap, its where we are in contemporary technology.

All of that means nothing.

I'm talking about a core OS feature here. To the end user, all they see is that Apple took the perfectly functional Quicktime they had on their previous OS X release, and 'dumbed it down' by removing a bunch of features. Then to add insult to injury, replaced said features with a pathetic social network integration where you can share videos to facebook/twitter.

labars
Jan 9, 2013, 03:56 AM
Agreed, As a long time Mac user, Apple needs to get their **** together with OSX. Stop the ****ing yearly releases, and stop relying on gimmicky features to market your OS. Work on what actually matters to the end users. I mean common, OSX has only been getting WORSE since Lion, or at best been standing still. Meanwhile, Windows and Linux are constantly getting better and better.

do1984
Jan 9, 2013, 04:18 AM
Am I the only one who just hate the Airplay feature? I mean, I like the concept, but it actually doesn't work. A 720p mkv struggles. 1080p? Nor even in my dreams. And it's not lack of hardware since my rmbp is close to my Airport Extreme and connection between both of them is at 450mbps. Can't get rid of the HDMI cable yet. Hope they fix it anytime soon.

Miharu
Jan 9, 2013, 04:54 AM
IMO Game Center is the most useless addition. It's also probably the ugliest app I've seen - when you think of games (and specifically video games here), do you really think of a casino table first? Gambling is even illegal in many countries. I don't like the skeumorphism (sp?) or whatever is used here.

But I guess casual users might find the achievements nice, since they probably don't use/know about Steam.

omenatarhuri
Jan 9, 2013, 05:39 AM
Am I the only one who just hate the Airplay feature? I mean, I like the concept, but it actually doesn't work. A 720p mkv struggles. 1080p? Nor even in my dreams. And it's not lack of hardware since my rmbp is close to my Airport Extreme and connection between both of them is at 450mbps. Can't get rid of the HDMI cable yet. Hope they fix it anytime soon.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that I hate the feature. I think it's great that Apple has tried to implement this, but I have the same experiences as you about it falling short.

I went around this by using Ivi to add MKVs to my iTunes media library. Then using Home Sharing to let Apple TV access the library. This way I can view the stuff using the Apple TV UI, which is nice. Or by using the iPhone/iPad Remote applications for the times that the small remote control is missing.

----------

IMO Game Center is the most useless addition. It's also probably the ugliest app I've seen - when you think of games (and specifically video games here), do you really think of a casino table first? Gambling is even illegal in many countries. I don't like the skeumorphism (sp?) or whatever is used here.

But I guess casual users might find the achievements nice, since they probably don't use/know about Steam.
Very much agreed. Apple should concentrate on getting the mainstream gaming performance on-par with Windows, after this they can do all the game-centers they want. At the moment I am rebooting to Windows for my gaming because I find the performance much MUCH better (i5 3570k, GTX670, 8Gb) for instance with Civ5.

johnmacward
Jan 9, 2013, 05:56 AM
I agree with the slow shutdown times. I had a 2007 iMac with Mountain Lion. I put Snow Leopard back on it to sell it.

Mountain Lion: 30-35 seconds to shutdown
Snow Leopard: 5 seconds to shutdown

Even with my newer 2011 iMac, shutdown times are around 30 seconds. It doesn't bother me. I just find it strange. :D

My MBP Late 2011 shuts down in about 5 seconds. Might have something to do with the software you've installed - maybe a service that refuses to go quickly...

kissmo
Jan 9, 2013, 05:57 AM
Well in SL I had like 4 seconds.

In ML I have 10-15 seconds.
After update - the same.

MBP 17 inch - SSD

rmwebs
Jan 9, 2013, 06:00 AM
Am I the only one who just hate the Airplay feature? I mean, I like the concept, but it actually doesn't work. A 720p mkv struggles. 1080p? Nor even in my dreams. And it's not lack of hardware since my rmbp is close to my Airport Extreme and connection between both of them is at 450mbps. Can't get rid of the HDMI cable yet. Hope they fix it anytime soon.

It'd be great if it worked correctly.

If I hook my rMBP up to my wired LAN instead of the wireless one it works much better. Wirelessly its piss poor however.

I've found VLC and a £25 RaspberryPi to be much more reliable.

----------


Very much agreed. Apple should concentrate on getting the mainstream gaming performance on-par with Windows, after this they can do all the game-centers they want. At the moment I am rebooting to Windows for my gaming because I find the performance much MUCH better (i5 3570k, GTX670, 8Gb) for instance with Civ5.

Ditto!

What I find laughable is that there is an image on the rMBP promo page of Apple.com showing Civ5 running on it. Having tried it on my maxed out rMBP 15" I can honestly say its unplayable even on low settings. You get half way through the game and each 'turn' can take upwards of a minute!

Switch to bootcamp and it works fine!

sasza
Jan 9, 2013, 06:36 AM
Snappier Safari coming :D

rdlink
Jan 9, 2013, 07:33 AM
Well see now. Macs aren't used to being shut down or rebooted. That's a Windows thing.

:D

I guess it doesn't bother me too much for two reasons.

1. I've resorted to barely ever shutting it down and just sleeping it.
2. The crap-tastic PC's I work with every day at my job take 2-3 minutes to shut down and 5-10 minutes to start up. I guess it's pretty awesome by comparison! LOL!

But a newer OS should not take us backward toward Windows. When you use Windows as the comparison barometer for OS X instead of earlier versions of OS X you have a problem. As "The World's Most Advanced Desktop Operating System" (Apple's words) OS X should be getting better with every iteration, and improving on its previous advances, not trying to stay ahead of admittedly crappy Windows performance. I expect more from Apple.

strukt
Jan 9, 2013, 07:47 AM
So,

Anyone tried this yet on a rMBP? I dont want to pay $99 for a developer account to try it myself.

Twimfy
Jan 9, 2013, 08:01 AM
Still having Wifi dropout issues with my iMac.

Having to use a powerline adapter when I shouldn't have to.

Would like to see a fix.

My Macbook Air on the other hand works flawlessly and they're both configured exactly the same. (clean 10.8 install).

rdlink
Jan 9, 2013, 08:02 AM
Firstly, its against forum rules to accuse people of trolling (not to mention highly pathetic). Secondly I'm not trolling. I'm stating fact.

Its a case of it only being a feature for the select few people that use it. Nothing 'big' has come to OS X in a long time now short of welcomed performance improvements.

Lets actually look at it objectively:

Game center - It has next to no real use if you dont do multiplayer gaming heavily on your mac. Gaming on the mac is already fairly niche (although granted it is growing). Even then, who the hell needs it? Seriously it's such a minuscule usage market. The biggest annoyance is that some tit decided to disable the ability to delete it.

Mail - It's a good app. But its only a good app if you need it. With the likes of very well made webmail clients, it's not something I'd personally ever want to use. Gmail and Outlook webmail clients do a pretty amazing job, and are updated a hell of a lot more often than Mail.app is.

AirDrop - A useful little feature, doesnt work for me however. Never has done, and never really tried to fix it. Certainly not worthy of being listed as a major OS feature.

iCloud - I had high hopes for it. But a measly 5GB free limit, and piss poor performance outside the US made it very much an annoyance more than a feature. Dropbox and Google Drive do a way better job of file syncing. The only plus of iCloud is storing notes in it, and using Photo Stream...assuming you dont hit your limit within the first 15 minutes of using the darn thing! At the end of the day, it's just MobileMe rebranded after the monumental mess they made of it.

Safari - Cant really include that. It's not a core part of the OS. It's a downloadable app.

Drill into the features of mountain lion. Look at Apple's page on it. The feature list really is quite pathetic.

Notification Center - it does an 'ok' job but Growl is still way more convenient than having to keep opening up some silly hidden sidebar that's been bodged into the top corner of the screen. Most apps still use growl however, and will do for the foreseeable future. Especially given that Apple are locking down the OS X features to only work with MAS apps.

Reminders - Should be an optional app in the MAS, not built into the system.
Notes - The same as reminders.

iMessage - Nice. But never works for me on any of my machines. Spends ages spinning a wheel only to tell me it couldnt connect to the Apple servers. Littlesnitch doesnt even show it trying.
Facetime - Same situation as iMessage
(A note about both iMessage and Facetime - dont forget that these replaced iChat. So only half a feature there really)

Power Nap - Not a notable feature
Dictation - Only a feature if you do a lot of writing
Sharing - Only a feature if you want to annoy people on Facebook and Twitter by posting junk all the time.
Facebook/Twitter Integration - I'd rather not have Facebook baked into the OS - there's no need for that - EVER.

Airplay - possibly the best feature of Mountain Lion. This one actually has its uses!

GateKeeper - No. Just No. If you think this is a good idea, you either dont understand anything about tech, or are very naive.

Then they list "Over 200 new features". Most of which are individual tiny things like reordering table headers using voice over - thats not worthy of being called a feature. I'm not exaggerating here either - thats actually listed as one of the 200 features: http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html

Am I being negative? You bet your ass I am. However out of everything I've listed as a "Feature" of Mountain Lion. I can honestly say that I've only ever found Airplay to be helpful. Even then I've only used it once in a blue moon.

Its not as if I'm a light user either. I'm on my mac from 8:30AM to about 6:00PM Mon-Fri working.

----------



All of that means nothing.

I'm talking about a core OS feature here. To the end user, all they see is that Apple took the perfectly functional Quicktime they had on their previous OS X release, and 'dumbed it down' by removing a bunch of features. Then to add insult to injury, replaced said features with a pathetic social network integration where you can share videos to facebook/twitter.


Not going to call you a troll, but most of your points are invalid because they're very subjective. While the features you lambaste are not ones that you like/need/find useful, many other users, including myself do find them useful additions to the OS.

And your assertion that the Mail app has anything to learn from Gmail's web app is absolutely ridiculous. Gmail webmail is perhaps the nastiest, ugliest, most unintuitive piece of garbage ever created. And Outlook webmail?!? I stopped using anything MS has thrown out in the way of consumer-based mail services a long time ago.

rmwebs
Jan 9, 2013, 08:15 AM
Not going to call you a troll, but most of your points are invalid because they're very subjective. While the features you lambaste are not ones that you like/need/find useful, many other users, including myself do find them useful additions to the OS.

And your assertion that the Mail app has anything to learn from Gmail's web app is absolutely ridiculous. Gmail webmail is perhaps the nastiest, ugliest, most unintuitive piece of garbage ever created. And Outlook webmail?!? I stopped using anything MS has thrown out in the way of consumer-based mail services a long time ago.

You've just contradicted yourself there.

You called my opinion invalid. I'm calling yours invalid.

425 million people use the Gmail webmail client. You dont hear people bitching and moaning about it.

As for the comment about Microsoft that shows you're very narrow-minded about this whole thing. Have you even looked at just screenshots of Outlook Webmail?

(For the record, I'm not a Microsoft fan, and avoid using their stuff wherever possible, however I like to keep an open mind, and have actually tested outlook webmail instead of spieling off a load of rubbish declaring it crap just because Microsoft made it)

new-to-mac
Jan 9, 2013, 08:21 AM
Wow!!!! Safari is ......... safari! You thought I was going to say it's faster, didn't you!:eek:

I thought you were going to say snappier :D

do1984
Jan 9, 2013, 08:33 AM
So,

Anyone tried this yet on a rMBP? I dont want to pay $99 for a developer account to try it myself.

13 seconds to shut down with 12D50, having Safari, Sparrow and Adium open.

iBug2
Jan 9, 2013, 09:20 AM
All of that means nothing.

I'm talking about a core OS feature here. To the end user, all they see is that Apple took the perfectly functional Quicktime they had on their previous OS X release, and 'dumbed it down' by removing a bunch of features. Then to add insult to injury, replaced said features with a pathetic social network integration where you can share videos to facebook/twitter.

Yet you can still use QT 7 on Lion or ML. Your point is moot since QTX does not replace QT 7 yet. It's simply the default install. I use QT7 to view all my iTunes purchases because QTX doesn't have brightness controls.

When you compare the backend of the OS, the part which matters for developers, both Lion and ML have been bigger releases compared to Snow Leopard judged by the amount of new API's for better apps.

The only actual complaint coming from the end user about the Lion/ML duo can be about stuff that actually have been removed and were useful, such as the old Expose which I miss.

Stuff which you don't have to use (gamecenter) are irrelevant. Nobody has been using every single app inside the Mac OS X at any time anyway, so for everyone, some apps have been "useless" from the start. So can we please let this stupid argument go already? It's been 12 years...

----------

Slow shutdown times are about choosing "reopen windows while logging back in". My rMBP shutdowns in 2.5 seconds if I don't choose it and in 20 seconds if I choose it. The amount of open apps will certainly have an effect but those numbers are with the same apps open in both times. The computer is saving state before shutting down, so obviously the latter will take a much longer time.

milo
Jan 9, 2013, 09:20 AM
Lack of features in QTX IS a major problem. Just look at Logic, most of the QT functionality is disabled when you run Logic in 64 bit. And that app has been 64 bit for *three years*, yet still none of those features have returned.

Enough excuses. Apple needs to update QTX so it has all the functionality QT7 did but with 64 bit support. Or if they're planning to dump QT, release whatever is planned to replace it already.

koban4max
Jan 9, 2013, 09:38 AM
I couldn't agree with you more. Criag Federighi seriously needs to get his act together and take a leadership role that once represented such great and flawless Mac software. My blood has been boiling since the release of Lion and now Mountain Lion. There is so much focus on completely useless features and iOSification. I mean Apple has lost its touch from truly making the best desktop operating system. The OS X Kernel HASN'T BEEN UPDATED MUCH SINCE SNOW LEOPARD! Yes, SL, Lion, and ML all pretty much have the same Kernel, which explains the crazy memory usage and random Kernel Panics.

I don't know if Apple is being lazy or just greedy because Macs now are just a small part of their overall business.

Feedback.

Riemann Zeta
Jan 9, 2013, 09:58 AM
I think Apple gave up on QT and QTKit, so there is little incentive for them to recode a fully QT7-like modernized version. Mac OS went through a very confusing transition of video APIs, but now Mac OS and iOS use the same video frameworks and methods.

gumblecosby
Jan 9, 2013, 10:02 AM
From the Perian mailing list regarding Quicktime:
---
"Part of the issue is that Perian is a QuickTime Plug-in. QuickTime is a 32-bit-only technology, and Apple is moving away from 32-bit. If they were to keep maintaining it, they would be using outdated APIs that Apple will (if they have not already) pull the plug on support. In fact, I'd be surprised if Perian even builds in Xcode 4.4

From what I can tell, the only replacement for QuickTime Codec plug-ins is VideoToolbox introduced in Mountain Lion. However, it seems that documentation on how to use it is sparse at the moment. If someone was able to wrap ffmpeg around a VideoToolbox plug-in, then applications that use AVFoundation wouldn't need to depend on Perian."
----

Seems something was introduced in Mountain Lion. It's just that nobody is fully sure what it does

iBug2
Jan 9, 2013, 10:03 AM
I think Apple gave up on QT and QTKit, so there is little incentive for them to recode a fully QT7-like modernized version. Mac OS went through a very confusing transition of video APIs, but now Mac OS and iOS use the same video frameworks and methods.

The new video kit of OS X is called AV foundation, which is the core of QTX as well. Both iMovie, FCPX use AV foundation and not QTKit. QTKit has been claimed EOL since SL. The fact that QTX did not get all the features of QT7 Pro is because it stopped making sense for Apple to charge for editing features which are already inside iMovie. When you get iMovie for free with every new Mac, nobody would buy QTX Pro for 30$. Not to mention, editing within QT 7 have always been a bust compared to actual NLE's.

Mike MA
Jan 9, 2013, 10:44 AM
apple.com/feedback

I found it to be more promising when filing a bug report at the link below:

https://bugreport.apple.com/cgi-bin/....woa/wa/signIn

Once you do this you can be quite sure that the issue is retrieved and followed up. Issues like the slow shutdown times and Airport problems for example seemed to be of interest as Apple asked for sysdiagnoses and protocols.

milo
Jan 9, 2013, 10:56 AM
The new video kit of OS X is called AV foundation, which is the core of QTX as well. Both iMovie, FCPX use AV foundation and not QTKit. QTKit has been claimed EOL since SL. The fact that QTX did not get all the features of QT7 Pro is because it stopped making sense for Apple to charge for editing features which are already inside iMovie. When you get iMovie for free with every new Mac, nobody would buy QTX Pro for 30$. Not to mention, editing within QT 7 have always been a bust compared to actual NLE's.

Sure it doesn't make sense to try and charge $30 for QT pro (frankly I don't think it ever did) but that's no reason for the functionality to not be available. There's still a need for basic things like trimming a movie and resaving, or file conversion, or exporting audio, or just adding an audio file to a movie, none of which should require a full NLE to do. Not to mention that using even iMovie for those things is a pain compared to QT7.

Saying QT player doesn't need those features is like saying Apple doesn't need the textedit app since Pages exists.

And if AV foundation is the new 64 bit version of QT, Apple needs to support it in their own apps beyond the two for video editing, like Logic. But I guess that would require the programmers to do some actual work.

unsung719
Jan 9, 2013, 11:11 AM
my biggest problem with mountain lion is the slow shutdown time. my 2011 macbook air with lion installed shut down in seconds (like 1-3). after upgrading to mountain lion it takes upwards of 20 seconds to shutdown. rubbish.

The Bulge
Jan 9, 2013, 11:35 AM
Fix internet sharing. Last time it mostly worked was in Tiger.

cmChimera
Jan 9, 2013, 12:41 PM
Firstly, its against forum rules to accuse people of trolling (not to mention highly pathetic). Secondly I'm not trolling. I'm stating fact.

Its a case of it only being a feature for the select few people that use it. Nothing 'big' has come to OS X in a long time now short of welcomed performance improvements.

Lets actually look at it objectively:

Game center - It has next to no real use if you dont do multiplayer gaming heavily on your mac. Gaming on the mac is already fairly niche (although granted it is growing). Even then, who the hell needs it? Seriously it's such a minuscule usage market. The biggest annoyance is that some tit decided to disable the ability to delete it.

Mail - It's a good app. But its only a good app if you need it. With the likes of very well made webmail clients, it's not something I'd personally ever want to use. Gmail and Outlook webmail clients do a pretty amazing job, and are updated a hell of a lot more often than Mail.app is.

AirDrop - A useful little feature, doesnt work for me however. Never has done, and never really tried to fix it. Certainly not worthy of being listed as a major OS feature.

iCloud - I had high hopes for it. But a measly 5GB free limit, and piss poor performance outside the US made it very much an annoyance more than a feature. Dropbox and Google Drive do a way better job of file syncing. The only plus of iCloud is storing notes in it, and using Photo Stream...assuming you dont hit your limit within the first 15 minutes of using the darn thing! At the end of the day, it's just MobileMe rebranded after the monumental mess they made of it.

Safari - Cant really include that. It's not a core part of the OS. It's a downloadable app.

Drill into the features of mountain lion. Look at Apple's page on it. The feature list really is quite pathetic.

Notification Center - it does an 'ok' job but Growl is still way more convenient than having to keep opening up some silly hidden sidebar that's been bodged into the top corner of the screen. Most apps still use growl however, and will do for the foreseeable future. Especially given that Apple are locking down the OS X features to only work with MAS apps.

Reminders - Should be an optional app in the MAS, not built into the system.
Notes - The same as reminders.

iMessage - Nice. But never works for me on any of my machines. Spends ages spinning a wheel only to tell me it couldnt connect to the Apple servers. Littlesnitch doesnt even show it trying.
Facetime - Same situation as iMessage
(A note about both iMessage and Facetime - dont forget that these replaced iChat. So only half a feature there really)

Power Nap - Not a notable feature
Dictation - Only a feature if you do a lot of writing
Sharing - Only a feature if you want to annoy people on Facebook and Twitter by posting junk all the time.
Facebook/Twitter Integration - I'd rather not have Facebook baked into the OS - there's no need for that - EVER.

Airplay - possibly the best feature of Mountain Lion. This one actually has its uses!

GateKeeper - No. Just No. If you think this is a good idea, you either dont understand anything about tech, or are very naive.

Then they list "Over 200 new features". Most of which are individual tiny things like reordering table headers using voice over - thats not worthy of being called a feature. I'm not exaggerating here either - thats actually listed as one of the 200 features: http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html

Am I being negative? You bet your ass I am. However out of everything I've listed as a "Feature" of Mountain Lion. I can honestly say that I've only ever found Airplay to be helpful. Even then I've only used it once in a blue moon.

Its not as if I'm a light user either. I'm on my mac from 8:30AM to about 6:00PM Mon-Fri working.

Your opinion is far from objective. Most of the things you list are enjoyed by me, and likely many others. You may subjectively dislike those features, but don't pass of your opinion as fact.

Howard Ellacott
Jan 9, 2013, 12:45 PM
You can thank Criag Federighi for this as he took over as Senior Vice President of Software Engineering after Bertrand Serlet left in 2011. Serlet moved to Apple with Jobs from NeXT and was Senior VP in S.E., and was mainly responsible for Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard. Criag Federighi is a hack, responsible for allowing Forstall to incorporate iOS **** into OS X while dropping the ball on improved graphics drivers and OpenGL Core support, a revised HFS+ Finder system, lack of full multiple display support, "Mission Control", horrible memory management, and pushing for an annual release cycle. The odds are, it won't change.

I think someone needs to point out to you that Craig (at least spell his name correctly) took over as head of OSX in 2011. Lion was previewed to everyone in 2010, when Bertrand Serlet was still in-charge of its development; so I don't really see how it can be Federighi's fault?

bedifferent
Jan 9, 2013, 01:03 PM
I think someone needs to point out to you that Craig (at least spell his name correctly) took over as head of OSX in 2011. Lion was previewed to everyone in 2010, when Bertrand Serlet was still in-charge of its development; so I don't really see how it can be Federighi's fault?

Bertrand had nothing to do with 10.7. He was on his way out, and at that time there was no S.V.P. of S.E. at Apple. Craig was acting head of S.E. at the time of Bertrand's departure. Read up on it, it's very interesting.

Oh, and thanks for pointing out my typo.

I think someone needs to point out to you that Craig (at least spell his name correctly) took over as head of OSX in 2011

Please don't rudely correct someone with false information. You catch more flies with honey... :)

As for your statement, that's incorrect.


Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 08:35 am
Serlet joined Apple in 1997 and has been involved in the definition, development and creation of Mac OS X. Before his time at Apple, Serlet spent four years at Xerox PARC, then joined NeXT with Jobs in 1989. He holds a doctorate in Computer Science from the University of Orsay, France.

"I've worked with Steve for 22 years and have had an incredible time developing products at both NeXT and Apple, but at this point, I want to focus less on products and more on science," Serlet said.

He will be replaced by Craig Federighi, Apple's vice president of Mac Software Engineering. In his new role, Federighi will assume Serlet's responsibilities and will report directly to Jobs.

Federighi is responsible for the development of Mac OS X, and has been managing the Mac OS software engineering group for the past two years. It was Federighi who gave a live demonstration of Mac OS X 10.7 Lion at a media event last October.

"Craig has done a great job managing the Mac OS team for the past two years," Serlet said. "Lion is a great release and the transition should be seamless."

Federighi worked at NeXT, followed by Apple, and spent a decade at Ariba where he held several roles including vice president of Internet Services and chief technology officer. He returned to Apple in 2009 to lead Mac OS X engineering. Federighi holds a Master of Science degree in Computer Science and a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science from the University of California, Berkeley.

Source:

Mac OS X software chief Bertrand Serlet to depart Apple (http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/03/23/mac_os_x_software_chief_bertrand_serlet_to_depart_apple)

The article and news was announced in March, 2011, and from Serlet himself:

Craig has done a great job managing the Mac OS team for the past two years

Which means CrAIg [no typo there] had been heading OS X development for two years prior to March, 2011, hence his return to Apple in 2009 (doing the math in case it's confusing). Federighi was not announced officially on Apple's board of directors until October, 2012.

It seemed until recently no one had taken over as Senior VP of Software Engineering. No one had that title until Craig Federighi was [finally] listed on Apple's Executive Profiles (http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/). Here is an interesting article about the fate of OS X (I don't agree with all of it, but the writer has some valid points):


Another Crystal Clear Sign That OS X Is Going to Die Really Soon
(http://gizmodo.com/5894679/another-crystal-clear-sign-that-os-x-is-going-to-die-really-soon)

Risco
Jan 9, 2013, 01:14 PM
Firstly, its against forum rules to accuse people of trolling (not to mention highly pathetic). Secondly I'm not trolling. I'm stating fact.

Its a case of it only being a feature for the select few people that use it. Nothing 'big' has come to OS X in a long time now short of welcomed performance improvements.

Lets actually look at it objectively:

Game center - It has next to no real use if you dont do multiplayer gaming heavily on your mac. Gaming on the mac is already fairly niche (although granted it is growing). Even then, who the hell needs it? Seriously it's such a minuscule usage market. The biggest annoyance is that some tit decided to disable the ability to delete it.

Mail - It's a good app. But its only a good app if you need it. With the likes of very well made webmail clients, it's not something I'd personally ever want to use. Gmail and Outlook webmail clients do a pretty amazing job, and are updated a hell of a lot more often than Mail.app is.

AirDrop - A useful little feature, doesnt work for me however. Never has done, and never really tried to fix it. Certainly not worthy of being listed as a major OS feature.

iCloud - I had high hopes for it. But a measly 5GB free limit, and piss poor performance outside the US made it very much an annoyance more than a feature. Dropbox and Google Drive do a way better job of file syncing. The only plus of iCloud is storing notes in it, and using Photo Stream...assuming you dont hit your limit within the first 15 minutes of using the darn thing! At the end of the day, it's just MobileMe rebranded after the monumental mess they made of it.

Safari - Cant really include that. It's not a core part of the OS. It's a downloadable app.

Drill into the features of mountain lion. Look at Apple's page on it. The feature list really is quite pathetic.

Notification Center - it does an 'ok' job but Growl is still way more convenient than having to keep opening up some silly hidden sidebar that's been bodged into the top corner of the screen. Most apps still use growl however, and will do for the foreseeable future. Especially given that Apple are locking down the OS X features to only work with MAS apps.

Reminders - Should be an optional app in the MAS, not built into the system.
Notes - The same as reminders.

iMessage - Nice. But never works for me on any of my machines. Spends ages spinning a wheel only to tell me it couldnt connect to the Apple servers. Littlesnitch doesnt even show it trying.
Facetime - Same situation as iMessage
(A note about both iMessage and Facetime - dont forget that these replaced iChat. So only half a feature there really)

Power Nap - Not a notable feature
Dictation - Only a feature if you do a lot of writing
Sharing - Only a feature if you want to annoy people on Facebook and Twitter by posting junk all the time.
Facebook/Twitter Integration - I'd rather not have Facebook baked into the OS - there's no need for that - EVER.

Airplay - possibly the best feature of Mountain Lion. This one actually has its uses!

GateKeeper - No. Just No. If you think this is a good idea, you either dont understand anything about tech, or are very naive.

Then they list "Over 200 new features". Most of which are individual tiny things like reordering table headers using voice over - thats not worthy of being called a feature. I'm not exaggerating here either - thats actually listed as one of the 200 features: http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html

Am I being negative? You bet your ass I am. However out of everything I've listed as a "Feature" of Mountain Lion. I can honestly say that I've only ever found Airplay to be helpful. Even then I've only used it once in a blue moon.

Its not as if I'm a light user either. I'm on my mac from 8:30AM to about 6:00PM Mon-Fri working.

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All of that means nothing.

I'm talking about a core OS feature here. To the end user, all they see is that Apple took the perfectly functional Quicktime they had on their previous OS X release, and 'dumbed it down' by removing a bunch of features. Then to add insult to injury, replaced said features with a pathetic social network integration where you can share videos to facebook/twitter.

These are not statements of fact, rather they are opinions that are personal to you. Regardless if there are any nuggets of truth within your post, you come across as aggressive and forceful and that is no way to conduct yourself on a forum or anywhere for that matter.

SeattleMoose
Jan 9, 2013, 02:23 PM
What made Snow Leopard the very best OS X release (to date) was that Apple said out of the gate that attention was going to be focused not on new features (e.g no new "social" features), but on PERFORMANCE and STABILITY.

I have a 2012 Mac Mini with 10.8.2 and a 2007 MBP with 10.6.8. I still like the ride MUCH better with 10.6.8 and don't plan on EVER updating my MBP to Lion or Mountain Lion. If it ain't broke.....

Only Snow Leopard measures up to the phrase that "used" to apply to Apple products...."it just works".

el-John-o
Jan 9, 2013, 02:28 PM
What made Snow Leopard the very best OS X release (to date) was that Apple said out of the gate that attention was going to be focused not on new features (e.g no new "social" features), but on PERFORMANCE and STABILITY.

I have a 2012 Mac Mini with 10.8.2 and a 2007 MBP with 10.6.8. I still like the ride MUCH better with 10.6.8 and don't plan on EVER updating my MBP to Lion or Mountain Lion. If it ain't broke.....

Only Snow Leopard measures up to the phrase that "used" to apply to Apple products...."it just works".

I've honestly been very happy with the performance and stability of Mountain Lion, though I do have high hopes for the future.

Leopard was a release with a host of new features, along with a host of bugs and occasional issues. Snow Leopard was what Leopard should have been. I think the same may come of future versions. I think it's a smart move for Apple to move to smaller, cheaper, incremental updates over large and potentially disastrous ones. In turn we have a more frequent release cycle and less new features per release, but hopefully more stability.

SirYossi
Jan 9, 2013, 02:30 PM
Fix internet sharing. Last time it mostly worked was in Tiger.

Works fine in OS X.7 used it couple times at work
only did it to try to see if it worked and it worked

ConCat
Jan 9, 2013, 02:56 PM
Sure it doesn't make sense to try and charge $30 for QT pro (frankly I don't think it ever did) but that's no reason for the functionality to not be available. There's still a need for basic things like trimming a movie and resaving, or file conversion, or exporting audio, or just adding an audio file to a movie, none of which should require a full NLE to do. Not to mention that using even iMovie for those things is a pain compared to QT7.

Saying QT player doesn't need those features is like saying Apple doesn't need the textedit app since Pages exists.

And if AV foundation is the new 64 bit version of QT, Apple needs to support it in their own apps beyond the two for video editing, like Logic. But I guess that would require the programmers to do some actual work.

Actually, Quicktime X can trim movies, it can export to a few different types of movie, and you can export audio only. Don't think you can add audio to a movie, but 3 out of 4 aint bad. :D

DesterWallaboo
Jan 9, 2013, 03:30 PM
They added social features. Uploading video clips from Quicktime X to vimeo and facebook is MUCH easier now. It's surprising how useful that is.

And removed the Pro features.... :mad:

The Bulge
Jan 9, 2013, 04:11 PM
Works fine in OS X.7 used it couple times at work
only did it to try to see if it worked and it worked

It doesn't work with 3G sticks and in Mountain Lion it's even worse than usual.

milo
Jan 9, 2013, 04:36 PM
Actually, Quicktime X can trim movies, it can export to a few different types of movie, and you can export audio only. Don't think you can add audio to a movie, but 3 out of 4 aint bad. :D

True about trim, but video and audio exports have extremely limited options compared with the QT7 - for audio the only option is literally "audio only", no settings available at all. And while it does have trim, it's still missing basics like copy/paste as well as less info in the info window, and no more movie properties and AV controls windows, both of which included a number of info and options.

iBug2
Jan 9, 2013, 04:37 PM
Sure it doesn't make sense to try and charge $30 for QT pro (frankly I don't think it ever did) but that's no reason for the functionality to not be available. There's still a need for basic things like trimming a movie and resaving, or file conversion, or exporting audio, or just adding an audio file to a movie, none of which should require a full NLE to do. Not to mention that using even iMovie for those things is a pain compared to QT7.

Saying QT player doesn't need those features is like saying Apple doesn't need the textedit app since Pages exists.

And if AV foundation is the new 64 bit version of QT, Apple needs to support it in their own apps beyond the two for video editing, like Logic. But I guess that would require the programmers to do some actual work.

I'm pretty sure the new version of Logic will be based on it, and your old Quicktime 7 Pro still works. So Apple isn't taking away a functionality. They only aren't putting it inside the new Quicktime. I do have a QT Pro licence yet I haven't used Quicktime for some editing work for a long time now. iMovie seems much easier for the type of stuff I do. Text Edit / Pages example is not the right kind of analogy imho. Apple still has Quicktime and iMovie. One is for viewing, the other is for creating. I think it's the same for Pages/ Text Edit. I use Text Edit to read things but I'd rather type in Pages if the stuff I type is going to be longer than a page.

But, as a viewer app, Quicktime Player X needs picture controls, which is still missing. So I don't really mind the editing features being obsolete, but I do mind the viewer ones being obsolete, since they are now touting it as a viewer app.

milo
Jan 9, 2013, 05:02 PM
I guess we disagree about textedit as well, it's absolutely a "creation" app and plenty of people use it that way. Apple's app for just "viewing" would be preview, and even that seems to have more editing features than QTX.

And we'll have to see about Logic, hopefully the next major update will bring back all the missing video features in 64 bit mode, but we'll see. It's about time, three years those features have been gone.

JohnDoe98
Jan 9, 2013, 05:16 PM
I'm pretty sure the new version of Logic will be based on it, and your old Quicktime 7 Pro still works. So Apple isn't taking away a functionality. They only aren't putting it inside the new Quicktime. I do have a QT Pro licence yet I haven't used Quicktime for some editing work for a long time now. iMovie seems much easier for the type of stuff I do. Text Edit / Pages example is not the right kind of analogy imho. Apple still has Quicktime and iMovie. One is for viewing, the other is for creating. I think it's the same for Pages/ Text Edit. I use Text Edit to read things but I'd rather type in Pages if the stuff I type is going to be longer than a page.

But, as a viewer app, Quicktime Player X needs picture controls, which is still missing. So I don't really mind the editing features being obsolete, but I do mind the viewer ones being obsolete, since they are now touting it as a viewer app.

First, QT 7 isn't hardware accelerated so though it works, it's wretched in terms of performance, and that is a major problem. Second, to do anything in iMovie you have to import the entire film which takes considerable time, and only then you can work on it. If all I want to do is make a quick modification to the video/audio, there should be an easy solution, which is why QT 7 was so useful. Third, iMovie has existed since 1999, so it has existed alongside QT 7 and before, for a while now, yet we still found QT 7 Pro useful and worthy of those features. I don't see why everything changes now that we have QT X.

The same pattern has emerged in other areas too. Just compare Airport Utility 5.6 with Airport Utility 6, the latter has a nicer newer interface but its features are severely limited and there doesn't seem to be much happening to lead us to think they will be fully restored.

DJJAZZYJET
Jan 9, 2013, 05:20 PM
I don't get why you re wrote this cause its already there in the article above

Because the 'graphics drivers' will hopefully improve the annoying choppy animations.

DesterWallaboo
Jan 9, 2013, 05:55 PM
I guess we disagree about textedit as well, it's absolutely a "creation" app and plenty of people use it that way. Apple's app for just "viewing" would be preview, and even that seems to have more editing features than QTX.

And we'll have to see about Logic, hopefully the next major update will bring back all the missing video features in 64 bit mode, but we'll see. It's about time, three years those features have been gone.

I'm not holding my breath on Logic..... after seeing what they did to FCP X.

rdlink
Jan 9, 2013, 07:48 PM
You've just contradicted yourself there.

You called my opinion invalid. I'm calling yours invalid.

425 million people use the Gmail webmail client. You dont hear people bitching and moaning about it.

As for the comment about Microsoft that shows you're very narrow-minded about this whole thing. Have you even looked at just screenshots of Outlook Webmail?

(For the record, I'm not a Microsoft fan, and avoid using their stuff wherever possible, however I like to keep an open mind, and have actually tested outlook webmail instead of spieling off a load of rubbish declaring it crap just because Microsoft made it)

I'm one of the 425 million (Or at least I was until I got a smart phone and started running a Window VM on my Mac at work, so I can check my email using my the Mail app on my Mac host machine). That doesn't make the interface any less crap. People will put up with a lot of crap for free or cheap. Android's proof of that.

And I use MS all the time. I have to. It's my job. I have a long, long history with MS. And I can say with certainty this: Throughout the years, the rarely "get it." Windows 8 is proof of that.

milo
Jan 10, 2013, 09:06 AM
I'm not holding my breath on Logic..... after seeing what they did to FCP X.

No question Logic is a low priority for them, but there just isn't any reason to expect them to totally scrap the app and start over like FCX.

Eithanius
Jan 10, 2013, 09:15 AM
Because the 'graphics drivers' will hopefully improve the annoying choppy animations.

Since Lion almost all of their updates have include "graphics drivers"... And where the hell are we now...? Still choppy... :mad:

labars
Jan 10, 2013, 09:49 AM
Do these graphic drivers updates have any effect on games like Stacraft II for example ?

bedifferent
Jan 10, 2013, 12:43 PM
Do these graphic drivers updates have any effect on games like Stacraft II for example ?

If I understand correctly, the drivers seem to be for unreleased cards for [supposed] unreleased Mac's. Speculation seems to point towards a new ATI card for the Mac Pro, whether that holds true will come with time. I haven't seen a difference on my [almost three year old] current gen Mac Pro 5,1 or current gen MacBook air, or even my current gen Mini. It would be nice if Apple released support for OpenGL Core 4.0+, as this has been available on Windows for years while OS X, well, is behind the curve.

DesterWallaboo
Jan 10, 2013, 12:45 PM
If I understand correctly, the drivers seem to be for unreleased cards for [supposed] unreleased Mac's. Speculation seems to point towards a new ATI card for the Mac Pro, whether that holds true will come with time. I haven't seen a difference on my [almost three year old] current gen Mac Pro 5,1 or current gen MacBook air, or even my current gen Mini. It would be nice if Apple released support for OpenGL Core 4.0+, as this has been available on Windows for years while OS X, well, is behind the curve.

Most people don't realize that Mountain Lion opened up Mac Pros so they can use any NVidia PC card right out of the box. We upgraded most of our older Mac Pros to NVidia GeForce GTX 640's. Plugged them in..... whamo!.. the work flawlessly.

The only card that's been glitchy for us is the NVidia 660 GTX Ti.... it works well except in Adobe Premiere where it's sketchy.

bedifferent
Jan 10, 2013, 12:59 PM
Most people don't realize that Mountain Lion opened up Mac Pros so they can use any NVidia PC card right out of the box. We upgraded most of our older Mac Pros to NVidia GeForce GTX 640's. Plugged them in..... whamo!.. the work flawlessly.

The only card that's been glitchy for us is the NVidia 660 GTX Ti.... it works well except in Adobe Premiere where it's sketchy.

Oh I know. I "upgraded" my Mac Pro 5,1 with a CalDigit USB 3.0 PCIe card, an OWC EXTREME 6G 256 GB SSD (got the SATA III model for future SATA III systems), an LG BD-RE ODD, etc. I kept the ATI Radeon 5770 as it suits my needs. However, this is still fairly sad as they should be standard on current gen hardware, especially as the "pro" system.

However, there seems to be issues with the 660, etc for high FPS, esp in games:

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=60248&page=13

curmudgeon32
Jan 10, 2013, 01:55 PM
I decided to test this on a 2012 cMBP. SSD

After closing all apps I shut it down. The timer started when I clicked on the pop up menu to shut down. You have an SSD. That right there explains the difference and kind of invalidates your test.

dyn
Jan 10, 2013, 05:09 PM
Please don't rudely correct someone with false information. You catch more flies with honey... :)

Then by all means practice what you preach!


Source: http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/03/23/mac_os_x_software_chief_bertrand_serlet_to_depart_apple"]Mac OS X software chief Bertrand Serlet to depart Apple

Read that article again and then tell us what their sources are. Can't find it? Don't worry, it isn't you, there simply aren't any sources. Add to that that you are referring to a website that posts rumours that sometimes are true and sometimes aren't. What you are using as a source isn't a very good one, it is a very very weak one and thus shouldn't be used at all.


It seemed until recently no one had taken over as Senior VP of Software Engineering. No one had that title until Craig Federighi was [finally] listed on Apple's Executive Profiles (http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/).

The same goes for Eddy Cue, Jonathan Ive and Bob Mansfield. Apple changed it's upper management recently. With that change there came a change in job titles as well.


Another Crystal Clear Sign That OS X Is Going to Die Really Soon (http://gizmodo.com/5894679/another-crystal-clear-sign-that-os-x-is-going-to-die-really-soon)
Gizmodo and Apple do not have a good relationship after that iPhone 4 incident. Also the author of that article doesn't know Apple's software portfolio. OS X and iOS are only 2 pieces of software that Apple makes. There are many others. Apple also does hardware, services (iCloud) and retail shops. Et voila, those are exactly the new VPs: hardware, software, services and retail. The new management makes more sense than the old did.

You can throw any article at us you want but the problem is that those articles will mostly be rumours since Apple is a blackbox style company. It doesn't tell the outside world much about its organisation, products, etc. You need to be a lot more cautious with stating such things as the absolute truth because they aren't. They are mostly some guy's take at how Apple does things or somebody who heard it from somebody who knows some guy at Apple. That's guessing, sometimes it's complete BS, sometimes it is accurate.

bedifferent
Jan 10, 2013, 06:15 PM
TL,DR

You again. Thanks for the "constructive" criticism (and yes, this is meant to be sarcastic). You seem to read into a lot of what I write, and then accuse me of doing the same. Irony. As for your accusations that I'm [allegedly] some horrible person who comments rudely on MacRumors with misinformation (and nice job attempting to discredit me when I did list sources, even actual quotes from Bertrand himself), I suggest you read my comments more objectively as many would disagree:

Wow, your name "bedifferent" certainly captures your refreshing approach to forum participation! Thank you for teaching me something today, and for doing it so graciously after I contradicted you without any evidence. :)

Since this is the xxth time you've decided on personally attacking me for no reason, you're the first member to make my ignore list. Congrats :)

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." — Benjamin Franklin

Eithanius
Jan 10, 2013, 07:07 PM
Most people don't realize that Mountain Lion opened up Mac Pros so they can use any NVidia PC card right out of the box.

But most people DO realise that Mac Pro is only a minute market enough for Apple to contemplate doing away with... :p:p

JHankwitz
Jan 11, 2013, 07:49 AM
Macs aren't used to being shut down or rebooted. That's a Windows thing.

:D

You're so right. At work we're told to reboot our PCs at least once a day. I home, the only Mac shutdown is when I upgrade the system. I have iTunes feeding my whole house sound system and TV 24/7.

star-affinity
Jan 11, 2013, 08:26 AM
Do these graphic drivers updates have any effect on games like Stacraft II for example ?

They could. But without doing a proper test and compare it's hard to tell. It might be that the focus in the drivers has mainly been to fix bugs and not so much optimization. I don't know. At the same time I do think the game developers (i.e. Blizzard) communicate with Apple and Nvidia/AMD when it comes to the OS X graphics drivers. Also I'm sure a lot of games are being tested at Apple/Nvidia/AMD so test the drivers. I remember a few years ago where an OS X update fixed issues with World of Warcraft (new graphics drivers in the update).

dyn
Jan 11, 2013, 04:33 PM
You're so right. At work we're told to reboot our PCs at least once a day. I home, the only Mac shutdown is when I upgrade the system. I have iTunes feeding my whole house sound system and TV 24/7.
There are a lot of companies where it is a policy to power off everything to save power and it is a wise thing to do as this can safe the company quite a lot of money. There are also quite a lot of other things that will run in the background to do some maintenance on the network. There are some licenses around that will allow a computer to take it. If all those licenses are taken nobody else can work with that software any more. To prevent situations like that they might have this "power off when you go home" policy. It isn't something that is a Windows-only thing at all. However, rebooting computers once a day is just silly. Something is definitely wrong there.

sshhoott
Jan 11, 2013, 05:31 PM
Any Developers reading all these complaints/bug issues, please report it to Apple so they can actually address and fix these bugs. I think one submission from a developer is worth as much as 100 submissions of a feedback from user. So if you share our pain, please report it! Thank you.

50548
Jan 11, 2013, 06:23 PM
Any Developers reading all these complaints/bug issues, please report it to Apple so they can actually address and fix these bugs. I think one submission from a developer is worth as much as 100 submissions of a feedback from user. So if you share our pain, please report it! Thank you.

Indeed - just today I suffered another case of Ethernet disconnection upon wake...if 10.8.3 doesn't fix it I don't know what else to say.

BlaqkAudio
Jan 12, 2013, 02:07 PM
Do these graphic drivers updates have any effect on games like Stacraft II for example ?
They could have a small effect. But if I recall correctly, Blizzard games tend to be more CPU intensive than GPU intensive.

H2SO4
Jan 13, 2013, 02:09 AM
There are a lot of companies where it is a policy to power off everything to save power and it is a wise thing to do as this can safe the company quite a lot of money.

In reality I'm not sure how that works out. The bean counters will need balance the cost of the base units being on standby at night, against the cost of a staff member sitting around the next morning being very much less productive for the half an hour it takes, (in my company at least in some cases), before the software is working smoothly.

It's a weird thing though because the computer being off saves money in absolute terms. The true cost of having an unproductive worker is very difficult to quantify and is more potential loss than real loss.

floobie
Jan 13, 2013, 01:45 PM
Hopefully this comes out soon. 10.8.2 hasn't exactly been great for me. My only real gripe are the rendering issues in Safari related to graphics switching. I'm using Firefox until they clear that up, which is a shame, because I generally really prefer Safari. I miss my iCloud tab and bookmark syncing...

While I've had the occasional slow shutdown (seems more related to my Time Machine external drive spinning up than anything on the computer itself), my battery life has still been "as advertised". I can still get a full day of work out of my Macbook Pro's battery, including work in Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, etc.

SlCKB0Y
Jan 13, 2013, 03:23 PM
It pretty much confirms what I was worried about with the switch to Intel. Apple developers are getting lazy and making the system work harder, not smarter.

No, it doesn't "confirm" anything of the sort.

Peace
Jan 13, 2013, 03:26 PM
Indeed - just today I suffered another case of Ethernet disconnection upon wake...if 10.8.3 doesn't fix it I don't know what else to say.

I switched over to ethernet yesterday and my 2012 cMBP has gone to sleep several times since then and I don't have that problem with 10.8.3

SlCKB0Y
Jan 13, 2013, 03:29 PM
although i do find that the app QuickTime X can't seem to play anything and i loath VLC.

Try MplayerX (App Store), it is much better than VLC and the interface much more like QT.

SlCKB0Y
Jan 13, 2013, 03:47 PM
Yes, SL, Lion, and ML all pretty much have the same Kernel, which explains the crazy memory usage and random Kernel Panics.


Kernel version has progressed from 10.x -> 12.x and they have made a major transition to 64bit only in that time. Even if it had remained static, how would that explain your claims of "crazy memory usage and random Kernel Panics. "? One plus one does not equal three.

Except for a driver issue I was having with 10.8 beta and 10.8.0, I have had zero kernel panics on ML.

The problem here is people trying to use words like "kernel" which they have a very limited understanding of. For some reason it's pretty common on Mac forums like this.

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once represented such great and flawless Mac software.

OS X has never been flawless, not even close. For one thing, it was barely usable until about 10.2.

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Any Developers reading all these complaints/bug issues, please report it to Apple so they can actually address and fix these bugs.

Since you're an "expert" that knows all about the Darwin Kernel and memory leaks, file your own report:
https://bugreport.apple.com/

You don't need a paid developers account to do so.

SlCKB0Y
Jan 13, 2013, 04:03 PM
425 million people use the Gmail webmail client.


You got a link to back this up by any chance?

SlCKB0Y
Jan 13, 2013, 04:25 PM
People will put up with a lot of crap for free or cheap. Android's proof of that.


What a foolish statement to make. How much did you pay for your last iOS update?

----------

As for your accusations that I'm [allegedly] some horrible person who comments rudely on MacRumors with misinformation

Your whole post was opinion which you posted under the guise of objectivity and fact. I consider that misinformation as well.

rmwebs
Jan 13, 2013, 05:03 PM
You got a link to back this up by any chance?


http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/28/3123643/gmail-425-million-total-users

SlCKB0Y
Jan 13, 2013, 06:15 PM
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/28/3123643/gmail-425-million-total-users

I've seen that before and that doesn't mention how those 425 million total users are accessing the service.

That doesn't mean that 425 million people are using the web interface.

rmwebs
Jan 13, 2013, 07:23 PM
I've seen that before and that doesn't mention how those 425 million total users are accessing the service.

That doesn't mean that 425 million people are using the web interface.
You're arguing semantics. My point goes back to the fact that clearly there is no fundamental issue with the gmail web interface due to the sheer volume of obviously happy users.

koban4max
Jan 13, 2013, 09:39 PM
Indeed - just today I suffered another case of Ethernet disconnection upon wake...if 10.8.3 doesn't fix it I don't know what else to say.

time to go back to SL

alvindarkness
Jan 14, 2013, 09:00 AM
You're arguing semantics. My point goes back to the fact that clearly there is no fundamental issue with the gmail web interface due to the sheer volume of obviously happy users.

He really isnt arguing semantics. I've used gmail for years purely via Mail.app. Web interface usage is a last resort (for me). We dont know what the usage spread is like with those 425 million users.

rdlink
Jan 14, 2013, 01:53 PM
What a foolish statement to make. How much did you pay for your last iOS update?


You're right. My statement wasn't entirely accurate. Let me fix it for you:

People will put up with a lot of crap in order to get something that they perceive is free or cheap, even when it isn't any cheaper once you factor in the real costs. Android's proof of that.

There. All better.

sshhoott
Jan 14, 2013, 02:37 PM
Even Obama uses SL on his MBP :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uvGaAs1Ge0

dyn
Jan 14, 2013, 02:39 PM
In reality I'm not sure how that works out. The bean counters will need balance the cost of the base units being on standby at night, against the cost of a staff member sitting around the next morning being very much less productive for the half an hour it takes, (in my company at least in some cases), before the software is working smoothly.

If things take that long something is definitely wrong. People here usually boot up the machine, get their coffee, talk to colleagues and then go to work. In that time the machine already booted up and in most cases users have even already logged into the machine. It takes a maximum of 10 minutes to boot up and login. The login part is what takes the longest.

In your case the problem is definitely somewhere else.

Solomani
Jan 15, 2013, 10:39 AM
I don't get why you re wrote this cause its already there in the article above

He didn't re-write it. He just orgasminated to the original announcement. Which I can totally understand.

Solomani
Jan 15, 2013, 10:51 AM
Quicktime 7 has a 32-bit API that is ancient. 64-bit is the future but taking Quicktime 7 to that future isn't a straightforward process (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6/6/) and will take time. And if you owned Quicktime 7 Pro, it still runs just fine on Mountain Lion. Its not like Apple yanked it or 'dumbed it down' for fun-sies. Also social/cloud integration isn't crap, its where we are in contemporary technology.

I totally agree regarding iCloud. At first, I was a skeptic of The Cloud back in early 2012. Back then, it wasn't even Apple that was hyping The Cloud. It was those other companies like Google and Microsoft throwing around that term as if they invented the concept first.

But now that I experienced first-hand how iCloud allows my (new) iMac to easily synch and seamlessly integrate with my iOS devices, I'm sold on the concept. Is it perfect? Of course not. iCloud has some known glitches that need to be worked out (a good example are the duplicate Notes entries, which I have already experienced). But so far, none of the iCloud problems I have seen or witnessed are deal-breakers. Regardless, I'm sold on the concept. It really does make things easier for us Mac users.

matspekkie
Jan 16, 2013, 06:38 AM
Still having Wifi dropout issues with my iMac.

Having to use a powerline adapter when I shouldn't have to.

Would like to see a fix.

My Macbook Air on the other hand works flawlessly and they're both configured exactly the same. (clean 10.8 install).

With the latest OS X 10.8.3 (12D50) i finally have decent wifi again.

Mind you, i had to trash some preference files (com.apple.alf.plist) in order to get it to work properly.
It's location /Library/Preferences/

iBug2
Jan 16, 2013, 08:27 AM
I totally agree regarding iCloud. At first, I was a skeptic of The Cloud back in early 2012. Back then, it wasn't even Apple that was hyping The Cloud. It was those other companies like Google and Microsoft throwing around that term as if they invented the concept first.

But now that I experienced first-hand how iCloud allows my (new) iMac to easily synch and seamlessly integrate with my iOS devices, I'm sold on the concept. Is it perfect? Of course not. iCloud has some known glitches that need to be worked out (a good example are the duplicate Notes entries, which I have already experienced). But so far, none of the iCloud problems I have seen or witnessed are deal-breakers. Regardless, I'm sold on the concept. It really does make things easier for us Mac users.

iCloud is amazing. Forget about SL, I can't even go back to Lion now that I started using iCloud for saving my Text Edit files. I usually type on my laptop when I'm out and when I get home, and sit on my Mac Pro, what I typed is already open in Text Edit. That's the kind of convenience I don't want to live without. I hope in the future that kind of sync spreads to many other apps.

Twimfy
Jan 17, 2013, 09:47 AM
With the latest OS X 10.8.3 (12D50) i finally have decent wifi again.

Mind you, i had to trash some preference files (com.apple.alf.plist) in order to get it to work properly.
It's location /Library/Preferences/

Interesting. I will try that. Thanks.

olirehacek
Jan 17, 2013, 04:13 PM
I need this update, because i have a serious graphics glitches on my macbook air mid-12. Hope to get it fixed with 10.8.3 :)

OnceYouGoMac
Jan 17, 2013, 04:15 PM
Even Obama uses SL on his MBP :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uvGaAs1Ge0

How do you know?

tywebb13
Jan 17, 2013, 04:56 PM
Why is 12D50 still on the mac dev center now that 12D54 is also up there?

Usually apple delete previous builds when new ones go up - unless a public release is imminent.

Could it be that 12D54 will actually be the build for public release?

Recent printer driver updates on the software update page also indicate that public release might be soon.

adnbek
Jan 17, 2013, 05:26 PM
How do you know?

Aqua scroll bar.

OnceYouGoMac
Jan 18, 2013, 07:21 AM
Aqua scroll bar.

I never noticed it on the video :o

Humex
Jan 19, 2013, 03:48 AM
The only OS X 10.8.3 beta or Safari has not crashed once. However, it is much consumes even more than Firefox. In addition, the Instant Search is disabled because my machine is not fast. On Chrome or Firefox, it works correctly.
Problems have been resolved, however crashes this version consumes more than the previous!

newfoundglory
Jan 19, 2013, 11:33 AM
I need this update, because i have a serious graphics glitches on my macbook air mid-12. Hope to get it fixed with 10.8.3 :)
it does fix a lot of graphics problems

DJJAZZYJET
Jan 30, 2013, 04:57 PM
Since Lion almost all of their updates have include "graphics drivers"... And where the hell are we now...? Still choppy... :mad:

I never knew this, there were so many people complaining about a lack of graphics drivers, I assumed apple had neglected them.

thujjku
Jan 30, 2013, 06:51 PM
I have a 2012 Mac Mini with 10.8.2 and a 2007 MBP with 10.6.8. I still like the ride MUCH better with 10.6.8 and don't plan on EVER updating my MBP to Lion or Mountain Lion. If it ain't broke..... :eek::eek::eek:http://www.*******************/control/images/apple

foidulus
Feb 18, 2013, 08:06 PM
Apple still uses the Carbon QTKit framework.

QTKit isn't Carbon(kinda sorta), it is Cocoa and thus can be compiled in 64-bit, however it needs a 32 bit "helper" process to do a lot of the lifting. However the new 64-bit AV framework is completely 64 bit.

Peace
Mar 12, 2013, 02:50 PM
QTKit isn't Carbon(kinda sorta), it is Cocoa and thus can be compiled in 64-bit, however it needs a 32 bit "helper" process to do a lot of the lifting. However the new 64-bit AV framework is completely 64 bit.

I was referring to the QTKitHelper . It still uses some carbon framework.

53kyle
Mar 12, 2013, 08:37 PM
Nobody uses Game Center. It was a dumb idea on the Xbox, and it's a dumb idea here.

I actually do use Game Center! It is great for multiplayer games and achievements. Some games even let me sync my games on many computers, which I always loved about steam.