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MacRumors
Jan 8, 2013, 06:44 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/08/firefox-for-mac-gets-updated-with-retina-support/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/01/firefox-150x150.pngMozilla today released (http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/18.0/releasenotes/) version 18 of Firefox, adding Retina support for Apple's line of Retina MacBook Pros.

Safari, Opera, and Google Chrome implemented Retina months ago, leaving Firefox as the last of the major browsers to receive a Retina update. Without Retina support, both website text and images on Firefox appeared fuzzy and hard to read.

Firefox 18 also includes the following updates, changes and fixes (http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/18.0/releasenotes/):-Faster JavaScript performance via IonMonkey compiler

-Support for Retina Display on OS X 10.7 and up

-Preliminary support for WebRTC

-Experience better image quality with our new HTML scaling algorithm

-Performance improvements around tab switching

-Support for new DOM property window.devicePixelRatio

-Improvement in startup time through smart handling of signed extension certificates

-Support for W3C touch events implemented, taking the place of MozTouch events

-Disable insecure content loading on HTTPS pages

-Improved responsiveness for users on proxiesFirefox 18 can be downloaded from the Mozilla website (http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/).

Article Link: Firefox For Mac Gets Updated With Retina Support (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/08/firefox-for-mac-gets-updated-with-retina-support/)



Macrolido
Jan 8, 2013, 06:47 PM
I dón´t care, Firefox in Mac stinks, I use Chrome.

Feed Me
Jan 8, 2013, 06:49 PM
Can't wait to not download this.

procrastinasn
Jan 8, 2013, 06:49 PM
Finally!

ArtOfWarfare
Jan 8, 2013, 06:50 PM
I use Safari with the Click to Plugin extension.

I have Firefox 3 on my computer... I knew it was dated, but geez, they're all the way on 18 now!?

minisuds7
Jan 8, 2013, 06:51 PM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/2878273c01071e4c7c9ee09d8c9828d9/tumblr_mg81avdpn91qzxzwwo1_500.jpg

Risco
Jan 8, 2013, 06:51 PM
They don't care about multi-touch gestures, therefore I no longer care about Firefox. Pretty sad considering I have been a loyal user since 0.6 Phoenix.

Outkast27
Jan 8, 2013, 06:52 PM
Is there a way to get pinch to zoom to work?

ZacNicholson
Jan 8, 2013, 06:52 PM
people still use firefox on mac?

Outkast27
Jan 8, 2013, 06:58 PM
I dón´t care, Firefox in Mac stinks, I use Chrome.

why does it stink?

Makosuke
Jan 8, 2013, 07:00 PM
people still use firefox on mac?Surprisingly enough, a few do, though it's getting increasingly hard to see why. I was surprised when setting up my brother's Retina MBP because he does, and FF was hideously ugly due to the no Retina support.

It usually is pretty good about auto-updating these days, but I'll have to make sure his has so he's not staring at a blurry mess anymore.

And actually, I use FF too, albeit just as my secondary browser for "sketchy" sites so that if it locks up or crashes (or I run with Javascript turned off) it doesn't mess with Safari.

Jethryn Freyman
Jan 8, 2013, 07:01 PM
Why all the hate towards Firefox?

Chrome is fast but I don't trust it one bit, Safari is nice but lacks any real kind of tweakability and security isn't exactly as robust as Firefox.

bushido
Jan 8, 2013, 07:01 PM
i hate firefox on mac so much but i have to keep it because my university site only works properly on firefox ... and IE :eek:

ZacNicholson
Jan 8, 2013, 07:09 PM
i hate firefox on mac so much but i have to keep it because my university site only works properly on firefox ... and IE :eek:

can you turn on developer mode and make the user agent firefox ?

RMo
Jan 8, 2013, 07:15 PM
people still use firefox on mac?

Yes. The Awesome Bar has almost enabled me to live without bookmarks, plus it's the only browser with an extension available (Xmarks) that can sync bookmarks and other data across the browser on different platforms in addition to other browsers themselves (mainly IE), handy when you have several different computers on various OSes in different locations. (EDIT: This probably wasn't the best stated point. It began as FoxMarks for Firefox but has expanded since; even still, it's always worked best with Firefox for me and I've given up syncing most other browsers. Mozilla and other vendors also have built-in support for something similar, but they don't work with other browsers, and I still prefer Xmarks. Plus, Firefox extensions are very easy to take with you to other computers--the corresponding IE and Safari versions, for example, require installing an EXE or PKG from a DMG, respectively.)

The wider availability and flexibility of extensions is also a reason I stay with Firefox. Plus I philosophically support the Gecko engine more than most others, and I've been using it since the Mozilla Milestone (pre-NS 6) days, so I'm kind of attached. :)

I did use Safari on my G5 once Firefox quit official supporting updates and TenFourFox was a bit too much for the amount of RAM it had, but I keep coming back to Firefox on both Windows and Mac.

xizdun
Jan 8, 2013, 07:26 PM
Two features in Firefox that I require not offered by Chrome:

Master Password
Proxy (independent of the OS)

rmwebs
Jan 8, 2013, 07:27 PM
Why all the hate towards Firefox?

Chrome is fast but I don't trust it one bit, Safari is nice but lacks any real kind of tweakability and security isn't exactly as robust as Firefox.

Why don't you trust it? Don't tell me it's the Google privacy nonsense - do you honestly think nobody would notice data being pushed to googles servers? For one thing it would show up in little snitch.

In any case, it's opensource...you can compile chromium yourself if you're that paranoid..it still beats Firefox by a longshot.

lunarworks
Jan 8, 2013, 07:27 PM
They still haven't gotten Firefox in line with OS X 10.7, despite promising that a few versions ago. Scroll bars, elastic scrolling, etc...

mrsir2009
Jan 8, 2013, 07:35 PM
Why all the hate towards Firefox?

Chrome is fast but I don't trust it one bit, Safari is nice but lacks any real kind of tweakability and security isn't exactly as robust as Firefox.

Why don’t you trust it?

Glumpfner
Jan 8, 2013, 07:37 PM
Why all the hate towards Firefox?

Chrome is fast but I don't trust it one bit, Safari is nice but lacks any real kind of tweakability and security isn't exactly as robust as Firefox.

I am working for over 10 years as a web developer now. Back while I used windows as my developing platform, I loved Mozilla and Firefox. But ever since I switched to using Mac, I hated Firefox!
Don't get me wrong, I love the Mozilla foundation, I love their ways of pushing the web technologies, the support for open source and their way of trying to create new useful web standards, BUT when it comes to Firefox on the Mac... Ouch!
As a web developer I have Chrome, Firefox and Safari open, each with 10-15 tabs at any given time. Chrome is super fast, always responsive, never lags when switching between tabs, Safari the same has a good speed, can't complain. And then comes Firefox. When having 10 or 15 tabs open and switching between Tabs, Firefox always needs 1-2 seconds to load until I'm able to click or scroll on the website.
And when switching between apps like Photoshop, Dreamweaver, FTP clients and then head back into Firefox, it again takes about 2 seconds until the window becomes active and I can navigate.
Then you check how much memory each browser uses... Chrome 300MB, Safari 400MB, Firefox 1,8GB!
Firefox has a memory issue, always had and it seems always will have. No matter how many tabs you close, it won't go down. You have to restart Firefox... and that very often results in "application not responding" after working 5 hours with 15 tabs open.


All my co workers experience the same issue several times through our the day with their Macs. I have it on my work station and on my private MacBook as well as on my old MacBook from 4 years ago, so it's not an isolated issue.

Simply put, Firefox on Mac is painfully slow if you use it for several hours with multiple tabs open and need to switch between apps a lot.

Chrome is my favourite in terms of speed. Yet I still love the Mozilla foundation and thank them for all the work for the web community.

gazrang
Jan 8, 2013, 07:37 PM
I want to use Camino.

http://caminobrowser.org/

It seems that the development has stopped. Not any update or further plans on camino blog.

SumoHamster
Jan 8, 2013, 07:37 PM
it's the only browser with an extension available (Xmarks) that can sync bookmarks and other data across the browser on different platforms in addition to other browsers themselves (mainly IE)

I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Xmarks is available for Chrome as an extension and there is an Xmarks for Safari app.

Macrolido
Jan 8, 2013, 07:44 PM
why does it stink?

I´ts slow, it crashes my MacBook when uses flash and also is far as good than it´s Window´s counterpart.

Risco
Jan 8, 2013, 07:52 PM
Is there a way to get pinch to zoom to work?

Yes:

http://best-mac-tips.com/2011/11/20/enabling-pinch-zoom-trackpad-gestures-in-firefox/

I have been experimenting with it, the biggest issue is that it lags badly on sites such as The Verge. Also it zooms everything, whereas Safari zooms in on a section.

batchtaster
Jan 8, 2013, 07:57 PM
Chrome is just Safari for hipsters.

Yamcha
Jan 8, 2013, 08:03 PM
Yeah I haven't used Firefox for a very long time, especially on the Mac. I've always liked Safari, even more since the saved tab's feature was released, as I rely on that often for my Web Design work..

Another reason to use Safari on the mac is scrolling.. There tends to be some scroll lag especially when there is lots of content on the page both on Chrome & Firefox..

Macrolido
Jan 8, 2013, 08:25 PM
I want to use Camino.

http://caminobrowser.org/

It seems that the development has stopped. Not any update or further plans on camino blog.

That´s really sad. Camino is the only Browser made specially for Mac OS X.

iDuel
Jan 8, 2013, 08:34 PM
That´s really sad. Camino is the only Browser made specially for Mac OS X.

I'm sure that Safari also was made specifically for OSX, especially with version 6.

mtbgtr
Jan 8, 2013, 08:37 PM
Wow all these FF haters sound a lot like Windows Mac haters

mauvehead
Jan 8, 2013, 08:56 PM
Has anyone grabbed this new FF release on a Lion machine and had any major hiccups? I'm always bashful about jumping on the first release of anything...

tech4all
Jan 8, 2013, 09:11 PM
Why all the hate towards Firefox?

Chrome is fast but I don't trust it one bit, Safari is nice but lacks any real kind of tweakability and security isn't exactly as robust as Firefox.

Like? I trust Chrome just as much as I'd trust FireFox.

Chrome is just Safari for hipsters.

Do you have an iPhone, iPad, or iPod? :cool:

Wow all these FF haters sound a lot like Windows Mac haters

Great isn't it? :D

MadDawg2020
Jan 8, 2013, 09:21 PM
18 major rewrites, about 12 in the last couple years since this whole rapid release nonsense started. Yet not one update had addressed the lagging page load and refresh times, resource hogging, memory issues and bloated code.

Call me when Firefox doesn't suck up 2 Gigs of RAM and run 80% of my system clock to do a Google search.

mrsir2009
Jan 8, 2013, 09:24 PM
Chrome is just Safari for hipsters.

Remotely related: There's this guy at school who downloads Chrome every time he uses the school computers. And the thing is, is that the guest accounts that the students use are temporary, so each time you log out all the stuff you've downloaded gets wiped & reset. But he still downloads Chrome every time he needs to use the computer for ten or fifteen minutes. Coz Safari, Firefox or whatever-else-is-on-there totally won't cope with loading up a few Wikipedia articles :cool:

Watabou
Jan 8, 2013, 09:53 PM
Then you check how much memory each browser uses... Chrome 300MB, Safari 400MB, Firefox 1,8GB!
Firefox has a memory issue, always had and it seems always will have. No matter how many tabs you close, it won't go down. You have to restart Firefox... and that very often results in "application not responding" after working 5 hours with 15 tabs open.

Simply put, Firefox on Mac is painfully slow if you use it for several hours with multiple tabs open and need to switch between apps a lot.


If the latest Firefox that you have used is Firefox 4 or something, that is just BS.

The past 5 Firefox releases use a meager amount of memory compared to Safari and Chrome. Safari is the worst at memory management. Even three tabs and it somehow ends up taking 2GB+ memory. Every browser test that has compared the modern browsers puts Firefox in first place in regards to memory management so I really think you just made the 1.8GB figure up.

I actually have 27 tabs open right now and it's taking a grand total of 620MB. It never lags on me when I switch between tabs too. I have an old 2008 Macbook Pro by the way.

The one thing that you CAN criticize Firefox is how slow they put out new features for the Mac version. For example, it took them this long just to update Firefox with Retina support. I suppose we will have to wait for Firefox 30 to get the Lion/ML scrollbars too.

JosephAW
Jan 8, 2013, 09:59 PM
Does version 18 remove the support for the Internet plugin folder or is that 19 that will exclude it.
Will be glad when all that old plugin legacy code is finally gone for good.
Still enjoy using FF 17 on my PPC. FF 19 is right around the corner.

gullySn0wCat
Jan 8, 2013, 10:15 PM
The one thing that you CAN criticize Firefox is how slow they put out new features for the Mac version. For example, it took them this long just to update Firefox with Retina support. I suppose we will have to wait for Firefox 30 to get the Lion/ML scrollbars too.

Get on the Aurora or Nightly channels, and you'll get new features much more quickly, as well as helping the development of the browser – just by using it.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/aurora/

http://nightly.mozilla.org/

PinoyAko
Jan 8, 2013, 10:31 PM
why does it stink?
It stink like a fox.

John.B
Jan 8, 2013, 10:31 PM
And still no mainstream H.264 support.

John.B
Jan 8, 2013, 11:02 PM
Firefox 18 also includes the following updates, changes and fixes (http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/18.0/releasenotes/):-Disable insecure content loading on HTTPS pages

Holy timewarp, that bug (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62178) was 12 years old! :eek:

Xenomorph
Jan 8, 2013, 11:17 PM
people still use firefox on mac?

Why wouldn't we? It's not like there's anything better to use.

Watabou
Jan 8, 2013, 11:28 PM
Get on the Aurora or Nightly channels, and you'll get new features much more quickly, as well as helping the development of the browser – just by using it.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/aurora/

http://nightly.mozilla.org/

Yeah, Nightly is what I use and have used since version 9.

One guy has been working on a lot of the missing features but iirc, he's taking a break...It's been about 5 months now though.

Here's the bug for Lion scrollbars if anyone wants to keep tabs on it: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636564#c87

It was there at one point but they decide to pull it. No worries though. We will probably get it around Firefox 30.

There's also a theme refresh called "Australis" coming soon. I believe the windows version of Nightly/UX has already got it. Meanwhile, I'm not even sure if there are people working on the Mac version.

RMo
Jan 8, 2013, 11:29 PM
I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Xmarks is available for Chrome as an extension and there is an Xmarks for Safari app.

You're right. I didn't state that very clearly. I also have a tendency to forget that what was once FoxMarks and worked best as a "Firefox is your main borwser"-type deal now works equally well as now-Xmarks with lots of browsers. I'm assuming the Chrome extension is all in-browser and easy to install (like Firefox), but IE and Safari's are programs that require installation.

But I'll stand by my other reasons. Quite importantly, Mozilla is the most open organization between Google (who I really don't want to give yet more of my data) and Apple (who, while maybe better now, has historically had a rocky relationship with KDE who, of course, developed what WebKit forked from). But I think this is reflected in the extensibility of the browser itself, as well.

RMo
Jan 9, 2013, 12:28 AM
I want to use Camino.

http://caminobrowser.org/

It seems that the development has stopped. Not any update or further plans on camino blog.

It's only been since the fall, so I'm not that sure it's stopped, but it does seem hard to find recent activity. (At one point, I think they had plans for a WebKit-based Camino 3, which would make the project far less appealing to me. Not sure if that was ever really planned or just a crazy idea.)

In any case, I like the idea behind Camino, but I find that in my normal usage, the Firefox toolbars, tabs, and whatnot feel more Mac-like, and in general everything else is close enough. I'm not a fan of Camino's UI, and of course you miss out on extensions and many other things that make Firefox useful for some people (me included, or I wouldn't care as much!). However, the integration with Keychain and other OS X features is very nice. I wish Firefox could to something like this.

In any case, I've found it a nice project and, while I never used it primarily, it was nice to use on occasion. I hope development hasn't stalled.

DamonBowser
Jan 9, 2013, 01:07 AM
I use Stainless more then camio. Its great for very quick i just want to open up the brower and check a forum or twitter thing especially because your main browser is normally dedicated to stuff. And I like there bookmark shelf.

http://www.stainlessapp.com

And yes it was designed for the mac only

a0me
Jan 9, 2013, 02:55 AM
Why wouldn't we? It's not like there's anything better to use.
Yes, Chrome.
- It's multiplatform; you can sync your tabs between your Mac, your iOS devices or even a Windows PC (Firefox doesn't support iOS)
- Its UI is cleaner and simpler
- Its UI is actually snappier (Safari and Firefox were almost unusable on my old iMac because of that)
- Multi-process separation
- Flash built-in
- Auto updates by default

gullySn0wCat
Jan 9, 2013, 03:02 AM
There's also a theme refresh called "Australis" coming soon. I believe the windows version of Nightly/UX has already got it. Meanwhile, I'm not even sure if there are people working on the Mac version.

They at least have a design document for it: https://people.mozilla.com/~shorlander/files/australis-designSpecs/australis-designSpecs-osx-mainWindow.html

rmwebs
Jan 9, 2013, 03:39 AM
plus it's the only browser with an extension available (Xmarks) that can sync bookmarks and other data across the browser on different platforms in addition to other browsers themselves (mainly IE), handy when you have several different computers on various OSes in different locations. (EDIT: This probably wasn't the best stated point. It began as FoxMarks for Firefox but has expanded since; even still, it's always worked best with Firefox for me and I've given up syncing most other browsers. Mozilla and other vendors also have built-in support for something similar, but they don't work with other browsers, and I still prefer Xmarks. Plus, Firefox extensions are very easy to take with you to other computers--the corresponding IE and Safari versions, for example, require installing an EXE or PKG from a DMG, respectively.)

You've clearly never seen Chrome syncing. It's years ahead of Xmarks.

The wider availability and flexibility of extensions is also a reason I stay with Firefox. Plus I philosophically support the Gecko engine more than most others, and I've been using it since the Mozilla Milestone (pre-NS 6) days, so I'm kind of attached. :)

Firefox extensions are ancient and need a massive makeover. It's the only browser that still makes you restart after installing many of the extensions. In comparison you dont have to restart at all on Safari or Chrome.

Development of extensions is also way easier on chrome and safari (at least in my own experience).

On another note, look at it this way:

The fact that Chrome, a much newer browser has overtaken Firefox in terms of user share, in a much shorter timeframe says a lot.

Also the fact that Firefox moved from a 'long' release cycle to a more regular release cycle (the same as Chrome) just makes it more evident that Chrome took them by surprise.

Lancer
Jan 9, 2013, 04:05 AM
On my G5 I use both FireFox and Safari, for different sites. Being PPC I'm stuck with older versions of both and can't wait for my new iMac.

flottenheimer
Jan 9, 2013, 06:01 AM
Personally I love and prefer Chrome. But recently I've been forced to switch back to Safari. And pretty soon, Chrome wont have a single Mac user left in Denmark (OK, exaggerating. But only a little.)

Why? In Denmark we have a unified secure login system called NemID. We all use it. And we have to. It is used by ALL our banks (home banking), something called eBoks (a system used by half the danish population) and for whenever you need access to online systems run by the state.
NemID requires the latest version of Java. It's 64-bit. Unfortunately Chrome is not a 64-bit browser - and Google does not have any plans for 64-bit Chrome.
Hello Safari. You're 64-bit. — I'm back. Together with the rest of the entire Mac-owning Danish population.

Google / Team Chrome - did you fall asleep at the steering wheel? Wake up, please! We miss you.



I wish there was an easy way to get in contact with Google / Chrome. A place where someone important enough would actually listen and could take action.

NutsNGum
Jan 9, 2013, 07:13 AM
Chrome is just Safari for hipsters.

Or those that value the best developer tools available on any browser, ever. Safari Webkit nightlies not withstanding.

rmwebs
Jan 9, 2013, 07:21 AM
Chrome is just Safari for hipsters.

Or not.

In any case. Defenition of hipster:
A person who follows the latest trends and fashions.


Surely everyone who owns the latest Apple product could be considered a "Hipster"

(for what its worth, I hate the term...sounds extremely childish when you see people calling other people "Hipsters", like its some form of cult).

SpiderDude
Jan 9, 2013, 07:32 AM
can you turn on developer mode and make the user agent firefox ?

Is that PornHub that you have opened on another tab?
LMAO

lifeinhd
Jan 9, 2013, 07:37 AM
I don't get all this FF hate. I use it daily, always with ~50+ tabs spread across several windows, and I never have a problem.

At the strong urging of one of my friends, I tried Chrome once. First thing I wanted to do was make the tabs so they could get infinitely small. Oh, there's no setting for that. Maybe an extension? No, of course not (maybe this has changed since then, I dunno). Okay, what about moving the close button off the tabs so I don't accidentally click it? Oh, you can't do that either. And wtf is up with this "single menu" BS? So, after about 5 mins, I deemed it useless and deleted it.

And Safari I can't stand because it crashes whenever you have large quantities of tabs open, and it will even refresh the page when you visit a tab you haven't visited in a while. Unacceptable in a desktop browser. Not to mention it has the same lack of customizability as Chrome.

BTW, I use FF on my rMBP and haven't had a problem with it looking fuzzy, but I keep it at 1920x1200 which looks A LOT better :D

yg17
Jan 9, 2013, 07:46 AM
can you turn on developer mode and make the user agent firefox ?

Did you type that post out with one hand? :p

KdParker
Jan 9, 2013, 08:30 AM
Chrome is just Safari for hipsters.

I agree....lately, I haven't found a need to switch to chrome on my mac.

spb3
Jan 9, 2013, 08:37 AM
thanks for a thorough response. loved firefox on my pc. was quick, plenty of plugins/addons. naturally was the first thing i installed on my iMac. it has been hogging memory a lot. some serious hangups.
on BF purchased a macbook and just stayed with safari. no lagging at all. the only thing i miss is icons for the bookmarks - they are not displayed in safari.

I am working for over 10 years as a web developer now. Back while I used windows as my developing platform, I loved Mozilla and Firefox. But ever since I switched to using Mac, I hated Firefox!

Aetles
Jan 9, 2013, 08:49 AM
I want to use Camino.

http://caminobrowser.org/

It seems that the development has stopped. Not any update or further plans on camino blog.

That brings back memories. Camino (then Chimera actually) was the browser of its time. It was very Mac-like, it was fast and it had tabs. Tabs! That was a small revolution. (No, they didn't invent tabs, but it was my first contact with tabbed browsing.)

GenesisST
Jan 9, 2013, 08:53 AM
Remotely related: There's this guy at school who downloads Chrome every time he uses the school computers. And the thing is, is that the guest accounts that the students use are temporary, so each time you log out all the stuff you've downloaded gets wiped & reset. But he still downloads Chrome every time he needs to use the computer for ten or fifteen minutes. Coz Safari, Firefox or whatever-else-is-on-there totally won't cope with loading up a few Wikipedia articles :cool:

My browser of choice is Chrome, but that guy is just plain retarded...

I don't get why people are so annoyed by other people's preferences... browser, phone, os...

-BigMac-
Jan 9, 2013, 08:55 AM
is that pornhub that you have opened on another tab?
Lmao

bahahahaha!!!!!

runeapple
Jan 9, 2013, 09:28 AM
I'm sure that Safari also was made specifically for OSX, especially with version 6.

I really hope your joking - OmniWeb, Roccat, Stainless, iCab, Sunrise... Blah blah blah etc. etc.

Chupa Chupa
Jan 9, 2013, 09:34 AM
Or not.

In any case. Defenition of hipster:


A person who follows the latest trends and fashions.


Maybe in the UK, but in the U.S. a "hipster," sees him or herself above "mainstream" values and products. They are more sub-culture. They don't follow the latest trends and fashions. They have their own.

http://www.californiabeat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/hipsterspread.jpg

rmwebs
Jan 9, 2013, 09:59 AM
Maybe in the UK, but in the U.S. a "hipster," sees him or herself above "mainstream" values and products. They are more sub-culture. They don't follow the latest trends and fashions. They have their own.

Image (http://www.californiabeat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/hipsterspread.jpg)

Thats not what "official" descriptions of the word would say, even from U.S. sites. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define%3AHipster&oq=define%3AHipster&aqs=chrome.0.57j58j60.2660&sugexp=chrome,mod=0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Rigby
Jan 9, 2013, 10:17 AM
Yes, Chrome.
- It's multiplatform; you can sync your tabs between your Mac, your iOS devices or even a Windows PC (Firefox doesn't support iOS)Several iOS browsers support Firefox Sync (e.g. iCab and Mercury). And Firefox Sync is the only browser sync cloud service out there that preserves your privacy (by encrypting your information on your own devices before uploading them to the cloud).

I have been more than happy with Firefox for years now. The best thing about it is that it works great across multiple platforms including all the extensions. Firefox profiles can be easily moved from one machine to the next regardless of the operating system.

deannnnn
Jan 9, 2013, 10:29 AM
Why all the hate towards Firefox?

Chrome is fast but I don't trust it one bit, Safari is nice but lacks any real kind of tweakability and security isn't exactly as robust as Firefox.

You don't "trust" Chrome?

I don't get why people freak out about Google having a little bit of information about us. They're a reputable company so they're obviously never going to try to use that info to harm us in any way. And it's not like there are specific people watching over what you do, it's all stored in their system to help make your Google experience better.

The only reason that I can think of to worry about Google is if you're doing illegal things online. If that's the case then you shouldn't use Firefox, you should stop doing illegal things.

Bear
Jan 9, 2013, 10:39 AM
You don't "trust" Chrome?

I don't get why people freak out about Google having a little bit of information about us. They're a reputable company so they're obviously never going to try to use that info to harm us in any way. And it's not like there are specific people watching over what you do, it's all stored in their system to help make your Google experience better.
...Google and Facebook have one thing majorly in common. You're the product to them, not the customer.

With some of the decisions that Google made with real names and Google+ made some people not quite trust Google.

Do I trust Google? More than I trust Facebook, but that isn't saying much.

And as for Chrome specifically, last time I looked at it it was a worse resource hog than Safari and Firefox combined.

MBPr15
Jan 9, 2013, 10:43 AM
I've used Firefox on OSX for years with no issues. Maybe my needs aren't the same as others, but its been just fine on my retina laptop.

I would very much like to hear what specifically chrome does better.

I had to find an alternative to safari as I've been frustrated several times by incompatibilities of sites eg checking out during an online purchase, filing forms, where safari failed. I have all the java, adobe, flash stuff added to it, yet have issues.

Turning to Firefox, simply flipped a coin as to which one to goto .. I have had no further issues. Also like that I can add things like do not track plus, http everywhere, add blocker. A I'm sure chrome supports those as well, but not safari.

I've tried chrome out of curiosity a while back, but it was just another browser in my short use. Can anyone mention specifically what I'd gain?

NutsNGum
Jan 9, 2013, 11:39 AM
Can anyone mention specifically what I'd gain?

If you're not a developer, probably not a whole lot apart from initial page rendering speeds. But with Firefox 18, and various other factors, that may be a moot point. If you like it best, then stick with it. There is no wrong browser, other than (tired web gag) Internet Explorer, which is not bad past version 8.

Rigby
Jan 9, 2013, 12:05 PM
You don't "trust" Chrome?

I don't get why people freak out about Google having a little bit of information about us. They're a reputable company so they're obviously never going to try to use that info to harm us in any way. And it's not like there are specific people watching over what you do, it's all stored in their system to help make your Google experience better. They primarily collect all that information about you to help improve their own bottom line. In the past they have done things like circumventing the user's privacy settings (http://epic.org/privacy/google/tracking/googles_circumvention_of_brows.html) or publicly disclosing personal information without the user's consent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Buzz#Privacy). Some caution is very appropriate.
The only reason that I can think of to worry about Google is if you're doing illegal things online. If that's the case then you shouldn't use Firefox, you should stop doing illegal things.Believe it or not, there is information that people want to keep private that is neither illegal nor "immoral". For example, if you use your browser for work, you do not want all your bookmarks and your browsing history, which may contain proprietary or confidential information, unencrypted in Google's cloud where you don't know who has access.

runeapple
Jan 9, 2013, 12:15 PM
Maybe in the UK, but in the U.S. a "hipster," sees him or herself above "mainstream" values and products. They are more sub-culture. They don't follow the latest trends and fashions. They have their own.

Image (http://www.californiabeat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/hipsterspread.jpg)

I'm from UK and that's exactly what Hipster means in my area anyway: "hipster," sees him or herself above "mainstream" values and products.

ZacNicholson
Jan 9, 2013, 12:27 PM
Is that PornHub that you have opened on another tab?
LMAO

oops, yeah sometime i get bored in english 201.

bushido
Jan 9, 2013, 12:51 PM
can you turn on developer mode and make the user agent firefox ?

oooh i didnt know about that :D ... bye bye firefox

and thx ... hope i didnt interrupt u with anything :p

TouchMint.com
Jan 9, 2013, 01:05 PM
I always use Firefox on my Mac (I must not be very good at the Internet). Then again I have to use ie 8 at work so I guess anything is an improvement

bryan.cfii
Jan 9, 2013, 01:14 PM
I often go through browsers for my department at school and test the latest and greatest. At least twice a month I go through and test multiple versions of Firefox, Safari, Chrome, and Opera. Other more obscure browsers I leave alone unless they pop up as something that is prevalent on the network.

I've been using Firefox 20a1 and next to Chrome Canary 26.0.1378.0 and the nightly Webkit for Safari I personally don't see all that much difference. I've even done tests on my coworkers where I've covered the navigation bars at the top of the screen with paper to see if people could guess by perceived screen which browser they were looking at by load times. Webkit browsers when they are on, they are on and do get guessed correctly, but just as often Firefox and Opera can fool them almost 50% of the time on certain sites. They are all fast. It just depends.

Chrome is obviously more web compliant when it comes to the html5 support hands down. It runs sites smooth and always scores extremely high on just about any test I throw at it. A person can't argue that, but lightning fast COMPARED to Firefox, no. I see Chrome hang on sites that Firefox doesn't and vise versa. Webkit is good on some sites and not on others. It just depends.

Chrome is responsive and sold, and so is Safari. Safari just feels smooth on the mac... but I don't see these hangs, unresponsiveness, or crashes in Firefox on a daily basis. About all I get annoyed about is the yahoo news videos that don't always play for some reason. I really don't see how Firefox is any uglier than say Safari either.

I can't use Chrome because it's just too rudimentary when it comes to bookmarks and searching. I do a lot of research and I need more control over what I see, what I get, and how I can organize it.
Chrome just can't do it. I've discussed my issues in Chromes forums and I'm not the only person who has gone around and around with Chromes developers.
Talk about people who don't care.
They are so arrogant that they just flat out tell the thousands of people asking for a feature they don't care and won't implement it.

Safari at least makes and attempt to not only delineate what search results your looking at, but it also tries to organize to an extent. It's not too bad, but lacks a little. Bookmarks are better than Chrome, but still no Keywords or anything.
Chromes search engine search is an okay substitute for keywords, but not the same when you get into it and use it.
My issues with Chrome that keep me in Firefox:

Proxy (independent of the OS)
search bar result prioritization.
search bar exclusion of certain things.
Bookmark organization and Keywords
Download organization
Printing (Chrome's gotten better, but still not there).
Memory usage (Chrome spreads out its memory usage over many processes and routinely uses cumulatively more than FF).
Chrome doesn't always dump all the memory used like people say, but is good about it mostly.
CPU usage (little bit higher usage and thus kills off about 35 minutes on a full battery charge on my MBP w/flashblock).

My tests have consistently shown Safari to be about the best on battery consumption on a portable. For me, Firefox comes in on average 12 minutes under Safari's battery life. Opera is similar to Firefox on battery. Chrome is always last.

If a student comes into me and says I need advise, I want battery life to get me through the day, I tell them Safari, FF or Opera. If they say they are worried about browser crashes, I tell them to try Chrome as long as they don't expect too much in the way of customizing. Plenty of add ons though I think.

I personally still use Firefox.

trunten
Jan 9, 2013, 02:42 PM
The past 5 Firefox releases use a meager amount of memory compared to Safari and Chrome. Safari is the worst at memory management. Even three tabs and it somehow ends up taking 2GB+ memory. Every browser test that has compared the modern browsers puts Firefox in first place in regards to memory management so I really think you just made the 1.8GB figure up.

I don't really care to look at memory usage much but you claim shocked me so I've opened 3 tabs in safari and checked activity monitor. I think something may be wrong with your safari because your 2GB+ figure is way off. 238.2mb for me :D

somethingelsefl
Jan 9, 2013, 02:52 PM
Is that PornHub that you have opened on another tab?
LMAO

Oh...my...god. Hilarious. That's one of the the most hilarious things I've seen on MR in YEARS!

Risco
Jan 9, 2013, 02:58 PM
oh...my...god. Hilarious. That's one of the the most hilarious things i've seen on mr in years!

rotfl!

StrudelTurnover
Jan 9, 2013, 04:00 PM
Development of extensions is also way easier on chrome and safari (at least in my own experience).


How 'bout you make me a Chrome extension that lets me move where the reload button sits in the toolbar?
Can't? (http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/XMCW0h-rglw) Awhh. :(
It's a good thing one UI works perfectly for all humans.
Oh (http://reviews.cnet.com/software/apple-itunes/4852-3513_7-35446287.html), it (http://chipcollection.com/reviews/please-fire-head-of-itunes-software-division-itunes-11-review-the-worst-interface-update-in-years/) doesn't? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=352057) Awhh. :p


The fact that Chrome, a much newer browser has overtaken Firefox in terms of user share, in a much shorter timeframe says a lot.

It says a lot about Google's marketing power. It doesn't say much about having made a better tool. By user share logic, Windows is clearly a superior product, especially XP. :D Also the browser market share numbers differ depending on the source (http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0&qpcustomd=0&qptimeframe=M). It's not an exact science.

Firefox made a heavy dent in IE around the time they got full page ads (http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/press/mozilla-2004-12-15.html) in the New York Times.
Visit any Google site (search, Youtube, Docs/Drive, etc.) with a user-agent other than Chrome, and you will see top-placement links and ads suggesting that Chrome will run faster and better. And it certainly does for Google sites... which a whole lot of people use... hmmmmm. This might be a rare exception to correlation is not causation. Marketing is funny like that.


Also the fact that Firefox moved from a 'long' release cycle to a more regular release cycle (the same as Chrome) just makes it more evident that Chrome took them by surprise.

Yup, but again it's marketing. Firefox 18 will still have the same WONTFIX bugs that Firefox 2 had.

As for iOS, Mozilla doesn't want (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/04/mozilla_drops_firefox_home/) to build a webkit wrapper (http://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/945460). Google is willing (http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/06/29/google-chrome-on-ios-hits-1-free-app/) to be slower than Safari for more mindshare.

A Hebrew
Jan 9, 2013, 04:15 PM
I haven't used Firefox since 4...amazing what version it is on already

Watabou
Jan 9, 2013, 04:56 PM
I don't really care to look at memory usage much but you claim shocked me so I've opened 3 tabs in safari and checked activity monitor. I think something may be wrong with your safari because your 2GB+ figure is way off. 238.2mb for me :D

Hmm, maybe but other people are having issues with Safari eating memory too though. I also have a bunch of plugins that I use. I could disable all of them but then what would be the point? I would get less memory and similar speed with Firefox with 10+ extensions installed.

As an example, here is my Safari with 8 tabs open and it's taking up 2GB of memory.

eyehop
Jan 9, 2013, 06:14 PM
Oh good, now I will be able to see very clearly how much the Firefox UI sucks.:rolleyes:

Mr. Retrofire
Jan 10, 2013, 04:47 AM
Surprisingly enough, a few do, though it's getting increasingly hard to see why.
Safari is slow, if you open a few dozen tabs and requires large amounts of RAM. Firefox can display the same pages and uses less resources.

----------

I've used Firefox on OSX for years with no issues. Maybe my needs aren't the same as others, but its been just fine on my retina laptop.

I would very much like to hear what specifically chrome does better.
Spying.

----------

You don't "trust" Chrome?

I don't get why people freak out about Google having a little bit of information about us. They're a reputable company so they're obviously never going to try to use that info to harm us in any way. And it's not like there are specific people watching over what you do, it's all stored in their system to help make your Google experience better.

The only reason that I can think of to worry about Google is if you're doing illegal things online. If that's the case then you shouldn't use Firefox, you should stop doing illegal things.
That is very naive.

Chupa Chupa
Jan 10, 2013, 11:31 AM
Thats not what "official" descriptions of the word would say, even from U.S. sites. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define%3AHipster&oq=define%3AHipster&aqs=chrome.0.57j58j60.2660&sugexp=chrome,mod=0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

That definition is wrong. Sorry. Check out the Wikipedia page here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_(contemporary_subculture)). I usually resist referring people to Wikipedia but their entry here is accurate. Hipsters are the modern day "hippie."

rmwebs
Jan 10, 2013, 11:43 AM
Spying.

Care to provide evidence, or are you happy to agree that thats 100% FUD.

John.B
Jan 10, 2013, 12:44 PM
Care to provide evidence, or are you happy to agree that thats 100% FUD.

Google overrode third party cookie preference settings for Safari (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/02/google-safari-browser-cookie/) and IE users to gain additional ad revenue. That's all the "evidence" many people are ever going to need. Trust matters.

tevion5
Jan 10, 2013, 12:50 PM
Safari surprisingly scores the best in Javascript benchmarks but in my opinion, as long as your not using Internet Explorer, your doing fine.

rmwebs
Jan 10, 2013, 01:16 PM
Google overrode third party cookie preference settings for Safari (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/02/google-safari-browser-cookie/) and IE users to gain additional ad revenue. That's all the "evidence" many people are ever going to need. Trust matters.

Yes thats wonderful, we all already knew about that.

Now. How about you actually back up what you said about Google Chrome and Spying.

Also FYI the Safari cookie bypass is not spying. Its enabling a cookie to track an anonymous id to show related adverts. Get real - there's not some sad gimp sitting in Mountain view watching your every move.

Rodimus Prime
Jan 10, 2013, 01:26 PM
Google overrode third party cookie preference settings for Safari (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/02/google-safari-browser-cookie/) and IE users to gain additional ad revenue. That's all the "evidence" many people are ever going to need. Trust matters.

Post above me cover a good part of it.
Also you need to understand software development works. The media makes it a bigger deal out of it that it really was. It only takes 1 developer who might of missed a line of code in a check (simple as an if (Not Private....) Make cookie.

They designed it based on Chrome. Chrome and Safari used different things. Or Chrome still blocked things and Safari did not. It past the test because Chrome had the fall back so the error was never reported.

They fix it as soon as they found it and quickly disabled the code. Chance are it was a hack fix to buy time then they went in and did it correctly later.

John.B
Jan 10, 2013, 01:29 PM
Yes thats wonderful, we all already knew about that.

Now. How about you actually back up what you said about Google Chrome and Spying.

How about you actually show me where I said that?

:shakeshead:

Also FYI the Safari cookie bypass is not spying. Its enabling a cookie to track an anonymous id to show related adverts. Get real - there's not some sad gimp sitting in Mountain view watching your every move.

Trust is a delicate thing. If Google can't be bothered to honor privacy settings for Safari or IE users (for monetary gain or sloppy coding or whatever other reason), why would anyone trust the integrity of a browser they themselves developed?

Rodimus Prime
Jan 10, 2013, 01:33 PM
Trust is a delicate thing. If Google can't be bothered to honor privacy settings for Safari or IE users (for monetary gain or sloppy coding or whatever other reason), why would anyone trust the integrity of a browser they themselves developed?

Go learn how to code and work on a software team. You will quickly find out how very embarrassing mistakes can slip threw the cracks. When the QA department does test they test common set up. Chances are the testing was done in Chrome/FF
Both of which do not allow that by pass.
It also speaks volumes about the security (or lack their of) on safari that it was so easily by passed. Safari should not be letting it happen either and Apple needs to patch Safari. Why would you trust Apple with security if they let such a simple thing be by passed so easily...........

rmwebs
Jan 10, 2013, 01:45 PM
How about you actually show me where I said that?

I'll apologise for that - I thought it was you who made the post however it was 'Mr. Retrofire'


Trust is a delicate thing. If Google can't be bothered to honor privacy settings for Safari or IE users (for monetary gain or sloppy coding or whatever other reason), why would anyone trust the integrity of a browser they themselves developed?

Really your trust issues should be with Apple here. They are the ones that let the bug exist, and knew about it for a hell of a long time before even acknowledging it was there.

Also the fact that this only happened in Safari shows that it was in fact a bug on Google's end as well, otherwise similar issues would have been present on Firefox, Chrome, etc.

John.B
Jan 10, 2013, 01:56 PM
Go learn how to code and work on a software team. You will quickly find out how very embarrassing mistakes can slip threw the cracks. When the QA department does test they test common set up. Chances are the testing was done in Chrome/FF

According to the Wired.com story (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/02/google-safari-browser-cookie/) I linked to, it was an intentional "workaround" to allow their "+1" links to report ad hits via Adsense:


Safari blocks the sites that power those services from setting or reading cookies, so a Facebook widget on a third-party site, for instance, can’t tell if you are logged in, so it can’t load a personalized widget. Google, along with a number of ad servers, were caught by Mayer avoiding this block, using a loophole in Safari that lets third parties set cookies if the browser thinks you are filling out an online form. (See a good technical overview here (http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424052970204880404577225380456599176-lMyQjAxMTAyMDEwNjExNDYyWj.html#articleTabs=interactive).)

http://s.wsj.net/media/SafariTrackingCode-annotate0212.gif

Google’s rationale seems to be that Apple’s default settings don’t adhere to standard web practices and don’t actually reflect what users want, since the browser never asks users if that’s the privacy setting they want. Facebook even goes so far as to suggest to outside developers that getting around the block is a “best practice,” linking to a developer’s blog post from 2010 that includes sample code on how to circumvent the block.

Google said it used the backdoor so that it could place +1 buttons on ads it places around the web via its Adsense program, so that logged-in Google+ users could press the button to share an ad. Without the work-around, the button wouldn’t be able to tell Google which Google account to link the button to.

Make up whatever sad "poor overworked Google coder" story you want, but the facts don't support your claims. Google didn't like how Apple (and Microsoft) prevented Google from acquiring valuable tracking information for their revenue-generating Adsense program, so they intentionally coded around it. Why would anyone trust Chrome to honor privacy settings in light of this behavior?

Rodimus Prime
Jan 10, 2013, 03:20 PM
Make up whatever sad "poor overworked Google coder" story you want, but the facts don't support your claims. Google didn't like how Apple (and Microsoft) prevented Google from acquiring valuable tracking information for their revenue-generating Adsense program, so they intentionally coded around it. Why would anyone trust Chrome to honor privacy settings in light of this behavior?

And again goes back to one coder does it. Over worked or not. One coder did it thinking it was a good move. QA at any software company is generally MASSIVELY over worked and under staffed. They are the last to get anything and any delays are taken out of their time to test stuff.

If the test cases did not look for that not going to be found.
I know of several examples from where I work. No one caught it until it happened and then we did a rush job to fix it/buy time.

It slip threw. Plan and simple.
You are also giving Apple a free pass on the fact that they let this happen as well. The fact that it requires trusting a third party at all to honor a request is a major flaw.

Quirinus
Jan 14, 2013, 06:36 AM
Is that PornHub that you have opened on another tab?
LMAO

LOL priceless. Thank you for this :D .

Makosuke
Jan 14, 2013, 02:05 PM
Safari is slow, if you open a few dozen tabs and requires large amounts of RAM. Firefox can display the same pages and uses less resources.[COLOR="#808080"]It's funny that that's your experience; mine has been the exact opposite. As I said, I use Safari regularly and Firefox occasionally, but one of the reasons I don't even consider Firefox as an option for a primary browser is that it's so damn slow once you have a few windows or tabs open.

Perhaps it has to do with the sites I'm pointing it at, but right now I have 14 onscreen active windows open in Safari, a few of which have more than one tab in them, and another 14 minimized windows, and it is using 1.36GB of private memory, and feels perfectly responsive.

Firefox has it's preference window and 5 minimized windows (3 of which have been closed since launch, so they never even loaded the content--they're white in the preview icon), and it's already at about 500MB. And I recently had to quit and re-open it because it was jittering and lagging so badly with about 8 tabs in two windows open I couldn't use it; when I looked, it was well over 1GB of RAM at that point.

I'm not saying that this is your experience--it obviously isn't. But for me, at least since Lion, Safari has been unquestionably faster, and generally uses less RAM as well. It's still RAM hungry, but I have 16GB, so I don't mind that at all, so long as it works well.

JGRE
Jan 14, 2013, 02:33 PM
why does it stink?

It is sssssssllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwww as hell

iDuel
Jan 14, 2013, 09:57 PM
I really hope your joking - OmniWeb, Roccat, Stainless, iCab, Sunrise... Blah blah blah etc. etc.

The post I quoted stated that Camino was the only browser made specifically for OSX in which I replied that Safari was also made for OSX. I don't know where your post came from.

runeapple
Feb 20, 2013, 02:56 PM
The post I quoted stated that Camino was the only browser made specifically for OSX in which I replied that Safari was also made for OSX. I don't know where your post came from.

You're right sir, I was supposed to have quoted the person you quoted. My bad!