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MacRumors
Jan 16, 2013, 02:44 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/16/apple-seeds-build-12d54-of-os-x-10-8-3-to-developers/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/01/build12d54.jpg
Apple today seeded build 12D54 of OS X Mountain Lion 10.8.3 to developers, marking the sixth beta iteration of the newest version of Mountain Lion. 10.8.3 was first seeded to developers in November (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/26/apple-seeds-first-beta-of-os-x-10-8-3-to-developers/).

Build 12D54 comes just eight days after build 12D50 (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/08/apple-seeds-build-12d50-of-os-x-beta-10-8-3-to-developers/), and like the previous build, contains no known issues or features. Build 12D50 brought only minor changes, and asked developers to focus on testing AirPlay, AirPort, Game Center, Graphics Drivers, and Safari.

9to5Mac (http://9to5mac.com/2013/01/16/apple-seeds-os-x-mountain-lion-10-8-3-build-12d54-to-developers/) notes that the new build contains significant changes to WiFi, but additional changes are unknown. Registered developers can download the update on Apple's Developer Page (https://developer.apple.com).

This post originally referred to Build 12D54 as the seventh developer seed of OS X 10.8.3 when it was actually the sixth seed.

Article Link: Apple Seeds Build 12D54 of OS X 10.8.3 to Developers (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/16/apple-seeds-build-12d54-of-os-x-10-8-3-to-developers/)



RJCP
Jan 16, 2013, 02:50 PM
They're really testing this one thoroughly.

vmachiel
Jan 16, 2013, 02:51 PM
Hopefully, 10.8.3 will fix the crashes when switching graphic cards

NintendoFan
Jan 16, 2013, 02:57 PM
It kinda feels like this is the last update (or second to last) before 10.9.

Xenomorph
Jan 16, 2013, 03:00 PM
My 10.8.2 issues:

1) SLOW SHUTDOWNS

2) Poor battery life (2-3 hours, max, on MacBook Pro w/ 92% of original battery capacity)

3) iCal randomly gives errors with Google calendars.

I've seen no changelog (anywhere) that mentions those being addressed.

afin
Jan 16, 2013, 03:01 PM
It kinda feels like this is the last update (or second to last) before 10.9.

Lols. Where did that come from?

Pegamush
Jan 16, 2013, 03:04 PM
still no reason for "switching" from SL to ML. i have to admit that airdrop is nice, but not so widespread. all the social cr@p can go to hell. i want back proper exposŤ and spaces.

Peace
Jan 16, 2013, 03:05 PM
It kinda feels like this is the last update (or second to last) before 10.9.

Lols. Where did that come from?

Just a personal opinion with no basis in facts but I fell like this is the last one before OS 11.0 due to the change in IOS bosses.

baller1308
Jan 16, 2013, 03:06 PM
My 10.8.2 issues:

1) SLOW SHUTDOWNS

2) Poor battery life (2-3 hours, max, on MacBook Pro w/ 92% of original battery capacity)

3) iCal randomly gives errors with Google calendars.

I've seen no changelog (anywhere) that mentions those being addressed.
Try to go into Disk Utility and Repair/Verify Permissions on the HDD. As for the battery, try to calibrate it if you haven't done so recently. Use it from 100% then drain it completely to 0% and then charge it back up to 100%.

Dwalls90
Jan 16, 2013, 03:07 PM
My 10.8.2 issues:

1) SLOW SHUTDOWNS

2) Poor battery life (2-3 hours, max, on MacBook Pro w/ 92% of original battery capacity)

3) iCal randomly gives errors with Google calendars.

I've seen no changelog (anywhere) that mentions those being addressed.

I actually have all of these issues too

madsci954
Jan 16, 2013, 03:09 PM
I can't help but think the live release of 10.8.3, and maybe iOS 6.1, coming around the earnings call next week.

Orlandoech.com
Jan 16, 2013, 03:10 PM
still no reason for "switching" from SL to ML. i have to admit that airdrop is nice, but not so widespread. all the social cr@p can go to hell. i want back proper exposŤ and spaces.

Man I so agree.

----------

I actually have all of these issues too

I have none of these issues.

NintendoFan
Jan 16, 2013, 03:12 PM
Lols. Where did that come from?

Considering the thorough testing and the fact that 10.8 was announced roughly around the same time. I have no inside info, just feels that way.

Mike MA
Jan 16, 2013, 03:13 PM
There's quite a big number of builds out there for this one...

My 10.8.2 issues:

1) SLOW SHUTDOWNS

2) Poor battery life (2-3 hours, max, on MacBook Pro w/ 92% of original battery capacity)

3) iCal randomly gives errors with Google calendars.

I've seen no changelog (anywhere) that mentions those being addressed.

4) Airplay issues

Schranke
Jan 16, 2013, 03:17 PM
hope this means that the os will be smother...
still experience some hiccups on my rMBP once in a while

All Taken
Jan 16, 2013, 03:20 PM
Still driver support for 79XX cards in this beta?

A couple have mentioned that this release is seeing a lot of seeds before release. Anybody think this could be to ensure compatibility with the new Mac Pro due shortly? I figure that new graphics drivers only point to a Mac Pro, no iMac, Mini etc is going to be using these cards.

Risco
Jan 16, 2013, 03:22 PM
Mountain Lion seems to be inherently buggy. It has slow shutdowns, Safari is crashy or beachballs a lot and silly things like changing desktop background does not respond unless you repeat it twice.

oneMadRssn
Jan 16, 2013, 03:30 PM
still no reason for "switching" from SL to ML. i have to admit that airdrop is nice, but not so widespread. all the social cr@p can go to hell. i want back proper exposŤ and spaces.

I'm so tired of reading this. First of all, "all the social cr@p" is completely optional and not at all intrusive. It can be completely turned off. Second of all, SL didn't have "proper" exposŤ. "proper" exposŤ ended with Leopard. SL added the scaled exposŤ which many argued was worse. ML brings back proper, unscaled, exposŤ.

Still don't like it? Don't use it then. But this completely unconstructive whining has to end.

laflores
Jan 16, 2013, 03:39 PM
I hope this makes Safari snappier... Ha, you didn't see it coming! :p

Sound214
Jan 16, 2013, 03:57 PM
Lols. Where did that come from?

Well, exactly one month from today, it's been a year since Apple announced Mountain Lion. Considering how long it's taken them to test 10.8.3, I totally agree with NintendoFan.

unobtainium
Jan 16, 2013, 03:59 PM
I'm so tired of reading this. First of all, "all the social cr@p" is completely optional and not at all intrusive. It can be completely turned off. Second of all, SL didn't have "proper" exposŤ. "proper" exposŤ ended with Leopard. SL added the scaled exposŤ which many argued was worse. ML brings back proper, unscaled, exposŤ.

Still don't like it? Don't use it then. But this completely unconstructive whining has to end.

Yeah, there's also icloud support, which is a huge reason to switch IMO.

Peace
Jan 16, 2013, 04:13 PM
Still driver support for 79XX cards in this beta?

A couple have mentioned that this release is seeing a lot of seeds before release. Anybody think this could be to ensure compatibility with the new Mac Pro due shortly? I figure that new graphics drivers only point to a Mac Pro, no iMac, Mini etc is going to be using these cards.

There is an ATI 7000 controller extension.

I might add the minimum system version is 10.8

They could just be making the ATI 7000 series cards available for the 2010 Mac Pro.

marshy82
Jan 16, 2013, 04:24 PM
Slow shutdown time seems to be fixed in this build :)

oneMadRssn
Jan 16, 2013, 04:29 PM
3) iCal randomly gives errors with Google calendars.



This is caused by Google I think. As far as I can tell, Apply is fully compliant with calDAV. It's google which is fussing with something.

ghostface147
Jan 16, 2013, 04:45 PM
They always release in mid 50's or low 60's build numbers.

shurcooL
Jan 16, 2013, 04:58 PM
2) Poor battery life (2-3 hours, max, on MacBook Pro w/ 92% of original battery capacity)
Are you using some 3rd party app (Chrome, looking at you) that constantly kicks in the dedicated GPU and ruins battery life?

Try gfxCardStatus (gfx.io) and force it to stay on Integrated only.

All Taken
Jan 16, 2013, 04:59 PM
There is an ATI 7000 controller extension.

I might add the minimum system version is 10.8

They could just be making the ATI 7000 series cards available for the 2010 Mac Pro.

Nah the power envelope for the decent 7XXX series don't tie in with what is available on the current Mac Pro line. Thanks for the info but I really think it's support for the new units.

Risco
Jan 16, 2013, 05:11 PM
Slow shutdown time seems to be fixed in this build :)

No it is not?

iBug2
Jan 16, 2013, 05:13 PM
Slow shutdowns are due to state saving. Switch off "open applications after startup" and it shuts down in 3 seconds.

mag01
Jan 16, 2013, 05:16 PM
Slow shutdowns are due to state saving. Switch off "open applications after startup" and it shuts down in 3 seconds.
No way. I've got it switched off and it still takes forever to shut down.

50548
Jan 16, 2013, 05:27 PM
Ethernet disconnections upon wake, mdworker issues and endless Console sandboxing messages - are these fixed?

lunarworks
Jan 16, 2013, 05:29 PM
Just a personal opinion with no basis in facts but I fell like this is the last one before OS 11.0 due to the change in IOS bosses.

"OS 11", as a name, isn't coming anytime soon. There's too much brand value in "OS X", and pedantic nit-picking won't change that. Also, they're placing more marketing value on the informal (cat) name over the version number.

We'll get "OS X 10.10" (perfectly normal in versioning), or even "OS X 11.0".

camnchar
Jan 16, 2013, 05:33 PM
2) Poor battery life (2-3 hours, max, on MacBook Pro w/ 92% of original battery capacity)

I had this exact issue, couldn't figure out what was causing it. Apple Genius told me as a last resort to reformat and load all the stuff back onto the HD from scratch. Problem solved.

Peace
Jan 16, 2013, 05:35 PM
"OS 11", as a name, isn't coming anytime soon. There's too much brand value in "OS X", and pedantic nit-picking won't change that. Also, they're placing more marketing value on the informal (cat) name over the version number.

We'll get "OS X 10.10" (perfectly normal in versioning), or even "OS X 11.0".

You do know the X stands for 10 right ?

lunarworks
Jan 16, 2013, 05:49 PM
You do know the X stands for 10 right ?

Yes, they made that very, very clear when they first announced it. That, and the fact that they say "O S Ten" on stage during keynotes.

But as a brand, it's sticking around.

KPOM
Jan 16, 2013, 06:03 PM
Yes, they made that very, very clear when they first announced it. That, and the fact that they say "O S Ten" on stage during keynotes.

But as a brand, it's sticking around.

Exactly. Windows went from 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, then 95, 98, and Me. NT started at 3.1, then went to 3.5, 4.0, then 2000. Later the two lines merged as XP, Vista, 7, and now 8. Surely OS X can break the "10.9" mold with something like "10.10, 10.11 ...

Peace
Jan 16, 2013, 06:05 PM
Yes, they made that very, very clear when they first announced it. That, and the fact that they say "O S Ten" on stage during keynotes.

But as a brand, it's sticking around.

iPhone OS was changed to IOS when the iPad came out.

Exactly. Windows went from 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, then 95, 98, and Me. NT started at 3.1, then went to 3.5, 4.0, then 2000. Later the two lines merged as XP, Vista, 7, and now 8. Surely OS X can break the "10.9" mold with something like "10.10, 10.11 ...

Might be a new kind of kernel coming ?

lunarworks
Jan 16, 2013, 06:20 PM
iPhone OS was changed to IOS when the iPad came out.

"iPhone OS" was a clumsy brand with no real public recognition. That's why they had no problem changing it.

AppleGuesser
Jan 16, 2013, 06:33 PM
still no reason for "switching" from SL to ML. i have to admit that airdrop is nice, but not so widespread. all the social cr@p can go to hell. i want back proper exposŤ and spaces.

I too love SL. But what is with the hate on social networking? If you don't like it, all you have to do is not sign in and go into settings and have it removed from the NC. Problem solved :)


But still, SL is still my favorite Mac OS X update. But ML is pretty darn close. I do in fact love having the integration of icloud so my iPhone talks to my Mac :)

sshhoott
Jan 16, 2013, 06:45 PM
With every new build, the hope for big improvements becomes stronger!

GO :apple: GO!

profets
Jan 16, 2013, 06:53 PM
My 10.8.2 issues:

1) SLOW SHUTDOWNS

2) Poor battery life (2-3 hours, max, on MacBook Pro w/ 92% of original battery capacity)

3) iCal randomly gives errors with Google calendars.

I've seen no changelog (anywhere) that mentions those being addressed.

Funny, I get the iCal errors randomly too. No idea why..

jackhdev
Jan 16, 2013, 07:21 PM
Wow, they're really making a lot of fixes in 10.8.3. I can't wait to download it.

Ddyracer
Jan 16, 2013, 07:22 PM
Exactly. Windows went from 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, then 95, 98, and Me. NT started at 3.1, then went to 3.5, 4.0, then 2000. Later the two lines merged as XP, Vista, 7, and now 8. Surely OS X can break the "10.9" mold with something like "10.10, 10.11 ...

Apple doesn't need to do that. All they need to do is get rid of the number scheme and just call it Mountain Lion, Cougar etc.

Who needs numbers except for dev builds? It's confusing and meh. Just call it Mac OS Cougar or whatever the next release will be.

No need for numbers like 10.9, just my little rant.

leo.andres.21
Jan 16, 2013, 07:35 PM
Improve start up time for people with regular HDD would be a start, shut down time doesn't bother me too much since I rarely if ever shut down (maybe to go into boot camp)
Graphics drivers and Safari needs to be updated, Safari has graphical glitches after the graphics is switched back and forth between integrated and discrete, doesn't happen with chrome or firefox.
Otherwise, still a very solid and smooth OS, though I do want more than just 4-5 hours battery, at least 6 would make me happy. It was 7 when I bought mine with Snow Leopard 2 years ago, since it's obviously been through many cycle and battery health is less, I only expect it to be about 1 hour less, not a whopping 2-3 hours (forced integrated graphics and 40% brightness)

The Bulge
Jan 16, 2013, 08:03 PM
Slow shutdowns are due to state saving. Switch off "open applications after startup" and it shuts down in 3 seconds.

Maybe that's the case with some software configurations, but for most it's something else. Even on a new Mac where i just finished setting up users after the firts boot it took forever to restart.

----------

Apple doesn't need to do that. All they need to do is get rid of the number scheme and just call it Mountain Lion, Cougar etc.

Who needs numbers except for dev builds? It's confusing and meh. Just call it Mac OS Cougar or whatever the next release will be.

No need for numbers like 10.9, just my little rant.

As long as it runs great i have no problem even if they call it Mac OS Pussycat.

sazivad
Jan 16, 2013, 08:15 PM
I really don't get why they started calling it OS X and not, like, Mac OS. Because Mac OS will apply even when they introduce System 11, but OS X won't.

Eithanius
Jan 16, 2013, 08:36 PM
I'm so tired of reading this. First of all, "all the social cr@p" is completely optional and not at all intrusive. It can be completely turned off. Second of all, SL didn't have "proper" exposŤ. "proper" exposŤ ended with Leopard. SL added the scaled exposŤ which many argued was worse. ML brings back proper, unscaled, exposŤ.

Still don't like it? Don't use it then. But this completely unconstructive whining has to end.

Then don't read it... First of all, though "all the social cr@p" is completely optional, its processes are not, and thus cannot be turned off whether you use it or not. It's a bloatware to say the least. Secondly, Leopard has the "proper" exposŤ, SL is the refinement of it. It looks a lot cleaner than some random windows thrown at your screen. I just don't understand why would Apple want to reverse it with Lion and Mountain Lion. I guess that's the very sign that Apple is going BACKWARDS hence the lack of innovation after SJ got beaten back to his grave.

Still don't like it? Don't read it then, don't even bother to quote. Because this I-hate-SL-buggers-ML-being-latest-and-greatest-wannabe whining has to end. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

----------

Wow, they're really making a lot of fixes in 10.8.3. I can't wait to download it.

12D54 and you say it's a lot of fixes...? In Snow Leopard, I guess they fixed a lot more with 3-digit builds. That's why Mountain Lion is still a piece of ****...

BlaqkAudio
Jan 16, 2013, 08:45 PM
Still don't like it? Don't read it then, don't even bother to quote. Because this I-hate-SL-buggers-ML-being-latest-and-greatest-wannabe whining has to end. :rolleyes::rolleyes:.
Says the guy who always post in ML related threads to whine about how ML sucks and SL is the best :rolleyes:

Eithanius
Jan 16, 2013, 08:56 PM
Says the guy who always post in ML related threads to whine about how ML sucks and SL is the best :rolleyes:

Thank you... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

noiseordinance
Jan 16, 2013, 09:17 PM
Please mother of god make safari a useable browser for retina machines.

adnbek
Jan 16, 2013, 09:31 PM
Did they fix the issue of Notes deselecting itself within iCloud settings at random?

ultraspiracle
Jan 16, 2013, 09:52 PM
no ML for me (again) till the shutdown time is brought under control to something reasonable. This kills solid state and retina MBPs. I went back to Lion - solid, stable.

ssblakemac25
Jan 16, 2013, 10:06 PM
My 10.8.2 issues:

1) SLOW SHUTDOWNS

2) Poor battery life (2-3 hours, max, on MacBook Pro w/ 92% of original battery capacity)

3) iCal randomly gives errors with Google calendars.

I've seen no changelog (anywhere) that mentions those being addressed.

1) I was experiencing the slow shutdown on my MBP. Searched everywhere for a solution. After booting in verbose mode, I saw a process was hanging. Followed instructions here (3 terminal commands) and now have two second shutdowns.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1448304&page=5

koban4max
Jan 16, 2013, 10:38 PM
You guys should send feedback to apple... if apple didn't fix it..that's because it's your fault of not report... sounds like unreported rape.

cmChimera
Jan 16, 2013, 10:49 PM
I really don't get why they started calling it OS X and not, like, Mac OS. Because Mac OS will apply even when they introduce System 11, but OS X won't.


They started calling Mac OS X because it is the Tenth version of Mac OS. Before it was Mac OS X, it was Mac OS 9.

flottenheimer
Jan 16, 2013, 11:52 PM
I'm a super happy ML user.

The only thing that still bugs me is the occational blue-colour-tint when switching graphics cards (on my almost brand new non-retina but hires 15" MacBook Pro). Hopefully, this will be fixed with a new set of updated graphics-drivers.

Peace
Jan 16, 2013, 11:57 PM
I'm a super happy ML user.

The only thing that still bugs me is the occational blue-colour-tint when switching graphics cards (on my almost brand new non-retina but hires 15" MacBook Pro). Hopefully, this will be fixed with a new set of updated graphics-drivers.

I have that same MBP and I don't see that in 10.8.3

Eithanius
Jan 17, 2013, 12:35 AM
I'm a super happy ML user.

The only thing that still bugs me is the occational blue-colour-tint when switching graphics cards (on my almost brand new non-retina but hires 15" MacBook Pro). Hopefully, this will be fixed with a new set of updated graphics-drivers.

I thought they fixed that with 10.8.2...? It was an issue with 10.8 and 10.8.1 that sometimes it gotten me distorted graphics until I had to reboot my MBP... It returned, and I stick back in SL...

marshy82
Jan 17, 2013, 02:06 AM
No it is not?

For me it is, before it was very random. sometimes it would take 20 seconds other times it would take 2 seconds. Now the shutdown time is always 2 seconds. Safari seems to be a bit more laggy in this build

daneoni
Jan 17, 2013, 03:17 AM
I'm happy with ML and going back to SL is just laughable at this point. To me anyway...

The Bulge
Jan 17, 2013, 03:21 AM
1) I was experiencing the slow shutdown on my MBP. Searched everywhere for a solution. After booting in verbose mode, I saw a process was hanging. Followed instructions here (3 terminal commands) and now have two second shutdowns.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1448304&page=5

Fixed the appleevents plist then internetsharing started to hang, fixed that one and now it's securityd.

Seems the issue is in the code and can't be fixed by just adding some options to the plist file.

----------

I'm happy with ML and going back to SL is just laughable at this point. To me anyway...

I'm very happy with ML too.

Mr. Retrofire
Jan 17, 2013, 03:41 AM
Hopefully, 10.8.3 will fix the crashes when switching graphic cards
This bug exists since (Mac) OS X 10.6.0. Why do you think they fix this kernel bug in 10.8.3?

----------

It kinda feels like this is the last update (or second to last) before 10.9.
10.8.3 supports the new Thunderbolt Displays and/or the new Mac Pro. Hints are the new Fresco Logic PCIe to USB 3.0 bridge drivers and new AMD drivers.

----------

I can't help but think the live release of 10.8.3, and maybe iOS 6.1, coming around the earnings call next week.
OS X updates come always after the printer driver updates (usually 2-4 weeks later). See:
http://support.apple.com/downloads/

Mr. Retrofire
Jan 17, 2013, 03:54 AM
With every new build, the hope for big improvements becomes stronger!
Such as?

All Taken
Jan 17, 2013, 04:30 AM
You guys should send feedback to apple... if apple didn't fix it..that's because it's your fault of not report... sounds like unreported rape.

That's the strongest analogy I've ever heard.

Sy7ygy
Jan 17, 2013, 05:09 AM
hiccups on my rMBP once in a while

I believe that may just be the rather underpowered onboard GPU powering that massive resolution w/ desktop animations than Mountain Lion..

Aren't the rMBP pretty twitchy, anyway?

81Steven
Jan 17, 2013, 05:37 AM
No shutdown issue here with both imac 2009 and imac late 2012

Happy ML user here :)

MacHiavelli
Jan 17, 2013, 05:49 AM
I've had my iMac and MBP for the best part of 5 years now and I have only turned the iMac off a couple of times when I have changed rooms, and the MBP when it has had a change of battery.

Do most people actually turn off their Macs rather than just use sleep? Why? Sleep uses very little power and makes the machines so easy to use.

Re the name and what come after OS X Ö I've always assumed that any step change would be OS XI (a continuation of Apple's use of Roman numerals) rather than 11.

Schranke
Jan 17, 2013, 06:24 AM
I believe that may just be the rather underpowered onboard GPU powering that massive resolution w/ desktop animations than Mountain Lion..

Aren't the rMBP pretty twitchy, anyway?

It dos not feel like something from the onboard GPU, but do not know for sure.
Think the EFI update have a little role in it to.
I would love to see 10.8.3 and rMBP EFI roll out at that same time soon.

Pegamush
Jan 17, 2013, 06:29 AM
Still don't like it? Don't use it then. But this completely unconstructive whining has to end.

well i might want to buy a new mac sooner or later, but since i cannot install SL on new machines i won't. call me crazy but i'm tempted to look over to win or ubuntu for my next pc.

Northgrove
Jan 17, 2013, 07:19 AM
I find iMessage, Notes, AirPlay, Notifications to be powerful additions to OS X. I for one am not complaining that these features happen to be brought over from iOS. It's so convenient to just type down a shopping list on the laptop and its real keyboard, and then just go shopping with the phone, with the list already there. And Notifications made me instantly ditch anything related to Gmail, Facebook, and Twitter notification apps/browser extensions, as well as Growl.

koen
Jan 17, 2013, 07:51 AM
My 10.8.2 issues:

1) SLOW SHUTDOWNS

2) Poor battery life (2-3 hours, max, on MacBook Pro w/ 92% of original battery capacity)

3) iCal randomly gives errors with Google calendars.

I've seen no changelog (anywhere) that mentions those being addressed.

If you (or others) haven't reported them to Apple, chances that they will be fixed are small. Discussing problems on a public forum has no use, you better use the official Apple feedback page at http://apple.com/feedback/

wlossw
Jan 17, 2013, 08:29 AM
I find iMessage, Notes, AirPlay, Notifications to be powerful additions to OS X. I for one am not complaining that these features happen to be brought over from iOS. It's so convenient to just type down a shopping list on the laptop and its real keyboard, and then just go shopping with the phone, with the list already there. And Notifications made me instantly ditch anything related to Gmail, Facebook, and Twitter notification apps/browser extensions, as well as Growl.

I'm just about 100% in agreement with you. My single favourite feature has to be the ability to send/receive iMessages to/from my phone number on my mac.

sazivad
Jan 17, 2013, 08:37 AM
They started calling Mac OS X because it is the tenth version of Mac OS. Before it was Mac OS X, it was Mac OS 9.
When they actually called it Mac OS X, that made sense. But now they're just calling it "OS X (http://www.apple.com/osx/)".
http://i.imgur.com/lHSwE.png

oneMadRssn
Jan 17, 2013, 08:38 AM
You've probably not seen expose in ML, and you probably don't remember the hate-flame-war over expose in Mac forums when SL came out; I'm guessing.

Here is expose in ML:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/screenshot20120504at948.png/

Here is expose in SL:
http://www.macintouch.com/specialreports/snowleopard/graphics/expose-all.jpg

Here is expose in L:
http://pcmcourseware.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/expose.png

Look back at forum posts from Fall of 2009. People hated expose in SL, about as much as they hate ML today. Some things never change.

I don't "love" ML, and really hate the fact that Apple refuses to allow backwards compatibility on newer Macs. I'm just trying to prevent misinformation. (1) Expose in ML is better than Lion; and for those who have been around OSX for a while, recognize that it's back to proper Leopard behavior from when it was best., and (2) not all the extras are bloat, just some of them :-)



Then don't read it... First of all, though "all the social cr@p" is completely optional, its processes are not, and thus cannot be turned off whether you use it or not. It's a bloatware to say the least. Secondly, Leopard has the "proper" exposŤ, SL is the refinement of it. It looks a lot cleaner than some random windows thrown at your screen. I just don't understand why would Apple want to reverse it with Lion and Mountain Lion. I guess that's the very sign that Apple is going BACKWARDS hence the lack of innovation after SJ got beaten back to his grave.

Still don't like it? Don't read it then, don't even bother to quote. Because this I-hate-SL-buggers-ML-being-latest-and-greatest-wannabe whining has to end. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

cmChimera
Jan 17, 2013, 08:46 AM
You've probably not seen expose in ML, and you probably don't remember the hate-flame-war over expose in Mac forums when SL came out; I'm guessing.

Here is expose in ML:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/screenshot20120504at948.png/

Here is expose in SL:
http://www.macintouch.com/specialreports/snowleopard/graphics/expose-all.jpg

Here is expose in L:
http://pcmcourseware.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/expose.png

Look back at forum posts from Fall of 2009. People hated expose in SL, about as much as they hate ML today. Some things never change.

I don't "love" ML, and really hate the fact that Apple refuses to allow backwards compatibility on newer Macs. I'm just trying to prevent misinformation. (1) Expose in ML is better than Lion; and for those who have been around OSX for a while, recognize that it's back to proper Leopard behavior from when it was best., and (2) not all the extras are bloat, just some of them :-)

I didn't mind Snow Leopard Exposť and I don't mind Mountain Lion's either. But I do want the labels that Snow Leopard had. I like having a little text indicator of what window is what.


When they actually called it Mac OS X, that made sense. But now they're just calling it "OS X (http://www.apple.com/osx/)".
http://i.imgur.com/lHSwE.png Oh ok gotcha. I thought you meant as a whole.

Eithanius
Jan 17, 2013, 09:33 AM
You've probably not seen expose in ML, and you probably don't remember the hate-flame-war over expose in Mac forums when SL came out; I'm guessing.

Here is expose in ML:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/screenshot20120504at948.png/

Here is expose in SL:
http://www.macintouch.com/specialreports/snowleopard/graphics/expose-all.jpg

Here is expose in L:
http://pcmcourseware.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/expose.png

Look back at forum posts from Fall of 2009. People hated expose in SL, about as much as they hate ML today. Some things never change.

I don't "love" ML, and really hate the fact that Apple refuses to allow backwards compatibility on newer Macs. I'm just trying to prevent misinformation. (1) Expose in ML is better than Lion; and for those who have been around OSX for a while, recognize that it's back to proper Leopard behavior from when it was best., and (2) not all the extras are bloat, just some of them :-)

You guessed it wrong. I came from the Tiger era where Expose had already been introduced on Panther. Leopard came and went, but because Apple introduced a bunch of new features that bloated it, I skipped and went straight to Snow Leopard. Boy how happy was I when Expose (complete with captions) was refined grid-style. Most importantly, Snow Leopard got rid of support for PowerPC-based Macs, I guess that was what made it lightweight and stable...? Apple did emphasised that Snow Leopard was to be an under-the-hood refinement of Leopard. And yes, I was aware of how people would hate SL Expose that they would hack it to revert to the old-style Leopard Expose...

Lion came, Expose and Spaces (another PITA feature devolution) were unified. I guess I don't need to explain further on Expose as it was a total mess just like Leopard, and groped (yes you read it right - groped!)...! :eek: Mountain Lion came to reverse some of those mistakes, but unfortunately it still retains the mess of Leopard.

Expose aside, Mountain Lion is as much as bloated as Leopard, though it supposed to carry some refinements over Lion, but it does not come close in performance and stability of Snow Leopard. People have been saying, and thus proving for instance, graphical performance is superior in ML than SL. No doubt it's true. But at what cost...? Instabilities...? Graphical choppiness...? Why the iOS fanciness with unnecessary resource-hogging windows animations...? I BOINC my science project every now and then, SL does one WU by 1h 50m, ML does in 1h 49m...? I wouldn't trade 1 minute of performance over such aforementioned problems.

SL starts up with less than 400 process threads, while ML starts with over 600... They stay there whether or not you utilise the iOSified features. Bloated isn't it...? Expose is just one of the many screw ups on L/ML.

Now we're seeing an annual cycle update of OS X, which means more features will be introduced, more resources will be needed, consumer will have to upgrade more often, maybe 2 to 3 years once as opposed to 4 to 5 years during the PowerPC era...?

cmChimera
Jan 17, 2013, 10:07 AM
You guessed it wrong. I came from the Tiger era where Expose had already been introduced on Panther. Leopard came and went, but because Apple introduced a bunch of new features that bloated it, I skipped and went straight to Snow Leopard. Boy how happy was I when Expose (complete with captions) was refined grid-style. Most importantly, Snow Leopard got rid of support for PowerPC-based Macs, I guess that was what made it lightweight and stable...? Apple did emphasised that Snow Leopard was to be an under-the-hood refinement of Leopard. And yes, I was aware of how people would hate SL Expose that they would hack it to revert to the old-style Leopard Expose...

Lion came, Expose and Spaces (another PITA feature devolution) were unified. I guess I don't need to explain further on Expose as it was a total mess just like Leopard, and groped (yes you read it right - groped!)...! :eek: Mountain Lion came to reverse some of those mistakes, but unfortunately it still retains the mess of Leopard.

Expose aside, Mountain Lion is as much as bloated as Leopard, though it supposed to carry some refinements over Lion, but it does not come close in performance and stability of Snow Leopard. People have been saying, and thus proving for instance, graphical performance is superior in ML than SL. No doubt it's true. But at what cost...? Instabilities...? Graphical choppiness...? Why the iOS fanciness with unnecessary resource-hogging windows animations...? I BOINC my science project every now and then, SL does one WU by 1h 50m, ML does in 1h 49m...? I wouldn't trade 1 minute of performance over such aforementioned problems.

SL starts up with less than 400 process threads, while ML starts with over 600... They stay there whether or not you utilise the iOSified features. Bloated isn't it...? Expose is just one of the many screw ups on L/ML.

Now we're seeing an annual cycle update of OS X, which means more features will be introduced, more resources will be needed, consumer will have to upgrade more often, maybe 2 to 3 years once as opposed to 4 to 5 years during the PowerPC era...?

Haters gonna hate.

flottenheimer
Jan 17, 2013, 10:15 AM
I have that same MBP and I don't see that in 10.8.3

Unfortunately, I'm not a developer. Nor interested in running beta releases of OS X. So, I'm still stuck running 10.8.2. Glad to hear that the issue has been solved.

I thought they fixed that with 10.8.2...? It was an issue with 10.8 and 10.8.1 that sometimes it gotten me distorted graphics until I had to reboot my MBP... It returned, and I stick back in SL...

Nope, they didn't fix it in 10.8.2, at least not completely. I'm still experiencing it from time to time — especially when starting InDesign as the first app on a freshly rebooted system. Super annoying.

oneMadRssn
Jan 17, 2013, 10:28 AM
You guessed it wrong. I came from the Tiger era where Expose had already been introduced on Panther. Leopard came and went, but because Apple introduced a bunch of new features that bloated it, I skipped and went straight to Snow Leopard. Boy how happy was I when Expose (complete with captions) was refined grid-style. Most importantly, Snow Leopard got rid of support for PowerPC-based Macs, I guess that was what made it lightweight and stable...? Apple did emphasised that Snow Leopard was to be an under-the-hood refinement of Leopard. And yes, I was aware of how people would hate SL Expose that they would hack it to revert to the old-style Leopard Expose...

Lion came, Expose and Spaces (another PITA feature devolution) were unified. I guess I don't need to explain further on Expose as it was a total mess just like Leopard, and groped (yes you read it right - groped!)...! :eek: Mountain Lion came to reverse some of those mistakes, but unfortunately it still retains the mess of Leopard.

Expose aside, Mountain Lion is as much as bloated as Leopard, though it supposed to carry some refinements over Lion, but it does not come close in performance and stability of Snow Leopard. People have been saying, and thus proving for instance, graphical performance is superior in ML than SL. No doubt it's true. But at what cost...? Instabilities...? Graphical choppiness...? Why the iOS fanciness with unnecessary resource-hogging windows animations...? I BOINC my science project every now and then, SL does one WU by 1h 50m, ML does in 1h 49m...? I wouldn't trade 1 minute of performance over such aforementioned problems.

SL starts up with less than 400 process threads, while ML starts with over 600... They stay there whether or not you utilise the iOSified features. Bloated isn't it...? Expose is just one of the many screw ups on L/ML.

Now we're seeing an annual cycle update of OS X, which means more features will be introduced, more resources will be needed, consumer will have to upgrade more often, maybe 2 to 3 years once as opposed to 4 to 5 years during the PowerPC era...?

So... you wouldn't at all mind if I came to every forum thread where the OP discussed how great SL is, or SL in general, and bashed it, complained, and whined?

Pentad
Jan 17, 2013, 10:28 AM
still no reason for "switching" from SL to ML. i have to admit that airdrop is nice, but not so widespread. all the social cr@p can go to hell. i want back proper exposŤ and spaces.

Good luck with that...


You can't stay on SL forever. Granted, I felt that SL with 8 GB of memory on a top of the line MBP was the fastest Mac I've ever used. I really did love SL...but technology moves on...pretty fast.

However, SL is old technology and while ML isn't 100 perfect, it has become much better.


-P

SeattleMoose
Jan 17, 2013, 10:28 AM
Still don't like it? Don't use it then. But this completely unconstructive whining has to end.

Why is saying you like SL better than ML "whining"? And why does it have to end? This is a forum. People express opinions. If you don't like it then don't read it.:p

JohnMantooth
Jan 17, 2013, 10:30 AM
I'm excited, maybe this version will actually save my View Options in the Finder.

iBug2
Jan 17, 2013, 11:20 AM
SL starts up with less than 400 process threads, while ML starts with over 600... They stay there whether or not you utilise the iOSified features. Bloated isn't it...? Expose is just one of the many screw ups on L/ML.

And the amount of threads is actually an indication of performance on older systems? No. It can have 1500 threads but each thread can take less CPU cycles and it can eat into less resources than the 400 thread OS.

Do you actually see those extra 200 threads eat into your CPU? Because I don't. On SL or L or ML, when I'm not doing anything, CPU usage is pretty much the same, close to 11%. 5% of it is kernel task, 5% of it is my Duet Audio deamon, and the remaining 1% is everything else. Most of those 600 threads, or 400 in SL, cost me 0% CPU.

Eithanius
Jan 17, 2013, 11:26 AM
And the amount of threads is actually an indication of performance on older systems? No. It can have 1500 threads but each thread can take less CPU cycles and it can eat into less resources than the 400 thread OS.

Do you actually see those extra 200 threads eat into your CPU? Because I don't. On SL or L or ML, when I'm not doing anything, CPU usage is pretty much the same, close to 11%. 5% of it is kernel task, 5% of it is my Duet Audio deamon, and the remaining 1% is everything else. Most of those 600 threads, or 400 in SL, cost me 0% CPU.

And which part of my sentence did I equate threads to performance....? :rolleyes:

cmChimera
Jan 17, 2013, 11:34 AM
And which part of my sentence did I equate threads to performance....? :rolleyes:
Well your whole rant implied that the number of threads was a negative thing, and the system was "bloated" because of it. When people say something is bloated, it usually means it is heavier, and slower than it should be.

iBug2
Jan 17, 2013, 12:05 PM
And which part of my sentence did I equate threads to performance....? :rolleyes:

They stay there whether or not you utilise the iOSified features. Bloated isn't it...?

If you are not worried about performance hit, and if you know that you may "not use" those extra features that create those extra threads (I'm not even sure that's the case here, extra threads can be created even with the same features just threaded in a different way), then what exactly are you on about when you say "bloated"?

Don't look at the number of threads on activity monitor and there, your problem is solved. I wish everyone's issues with OS's could be solved just as easily.

Pegamush
Jan 17, 2013, 01:45 PM
Don't look at the number of threads on activity monitor and there, your problem is solved. I wish everyone's issues with OS's could be solved just as easily.

we're not all sheeple

The Bulge
Jan 17, 2013, 01:55 PM
we're not all sheeple

Indeed. Some are just plain morons.

cmChimera
Jan 17, 2013, 02:12 PM
we're not all sheeple

Indeed. Some are just plain morons.

People that use their computers normally without whining about features that aren't affecting them whatsoever are sheeple and morons?

The Bulge
Jan 17, 2013, 02:43 PM
People that use their computers normally without whining about features that aren't affecting them whatsoever are sheeple and morons?

I'm a moron.

tywebb13
Jan 17, 2013, 05:35 PM
Will 12D54 be the build for public release of os x 10.8.3?

chrfr
Jan 17, 2013, 06:26 PM
I reckon 12D54 will be the build for public release of os x 10.8.3 (unless developers discover something drastically wrong with it.)
12D54 doesn't even have release notes in the installer. There will be at least one more build.

tywebb13
Jan 17, 2013, 06:41 PM
Yeah you are probably right.

Mr. Retrofire
Jan 17, 2013, 07:06 PM
People that use their computers normally without whining about features that aren't affecting them whatsoever are sheeple and morons?
Correct.

----------

we're not all sheeple
Not?

Macrolido
Jan 17, 2013, 07:27 PM
I hope they fix the low battery life issue.

Blew
Jan 21, 2013, 04:41 PM
still no reason for "switching" from SL to ML. i have to admit that airdrop is nice, but not so widespread. all the social cr@p can go to hell. i want back proper exposŤ and spaces.

I agree. I use TotalSpaces to compensate. It restores spaces functionality to ML.

http://totalspaces.binaryage.com/

fragel
Jan 21, 2013, 06:42 PM
Please mother of god make safari a useable browser for retina machines.

Hi,

actually, Safari webkit nightlies is perfectly useable because they fixed fully the lag on our Retina machines. I hope these improvements be in the coming update. Try it and you will see how should be the UI in this machine as usual.

Link to the Safari Nightlies:

http://nightly.webkit.org/

Tubamajuba
Jan 23, 2013, 12:14 AM
we're not all sheeple

Fair, reasoned, logical, and well thought out points. Thank you for your immense contribution to this discussion, it is greatly appreciated.

canadianpj
Jan 23, 2013, 09:49 AM
still no reason for "switching" from SL to ML. i have to admit that airdrop is nice, but not so widespread. all the social cr@p can go to hell. i want back proper exposŤ and spaces.

Enjoy living in the past then I guess? I'm sure years from now when you're still on SL you'll be happy.

noiseordinance
Jan 23, 2013, 10:01 AM
Hi,

actually, Safari webkit nightlies is perfectly useable because they fixed fully the lag on our Retina machines. I hope these improvements be in the coming update. Try it and you will see how should be the UI in this machine as usual.

Link to the Safari Nightlies:

http://nightly.webkit.org/

I'm not referring to lag, I'm referring to broken CSS all over the place. This has occurred on 4 different rMBPs, and is widely reported by rMBP Safari users on the Apple website, yet they have not fixed these horrendous problems since the release of the Retina line back in June. In the meantime, I use Chrome. For more details, see here:
https://discussions.apple.com/message/20462072#20462072
and
https://discussions.apple.com/message/20970837#20970837

theSuit
Jan 23, 2013, 11:23 AM
I believe that may just be the rather underpowered onboard GPU powering that massive resolution w/ desktop animations than Mountain Lion..

Aren't the rMBP pretty twitchy, anyway?

Windows 8 on boot camp has no issues with window rendering or speed. The 650m is a very capable card, and the HD4000 should be able to handle a lot of what you throw at it. Also, switching graphics cards manually makes no difference. It's a lot of pixels, but if it cannot handle the simple resizing of a window (drops down to about 4FPS when I resize the notes window), then it's definitely a software problem.

Heck the 650M can even run Skyrim at ultra settings (@Full HD resolution with 8xAA) at 24 FPS according to notebookcheck. If you can manage to use more resources than that when simply resizing some windows at high res, you're doing something wrong.

What I expect is happening is, they pass everything through the CPU after rendering, which bottlenecks the graphics. I seriously hope they updated graphics performance in this build, otherwise I'm seriously considering selling my rMBP, and getting an ASUS or something.

ThomasJL
Jan 23, 2013, 01:02 PM
Hopefully, 10.8.3 will fix the crashes when switching graphic cards

Hi, vmachiel. Could you (or anyone else reading this) please explain what happens during those crashes when switching graphics cards? I mean, what do you see on your computer screen when such a crash happens? Is there any kind of message that appears on the screen?

newfoundglory
Jan 23, 2013, 03:02 PM
Just for some fun - with Terminal of course.

sudo su -
cd /Library/Preferences/
mv com.apple.SoftwareUpdate.plist com.apple.SoftwareUpdate.old
touch com.apple.SoftwareUpdate.plist
/usr/bin/defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.SoftwareUpdate.plist CatalogURL "https://swscan.apple.com/content/catalogs/others/index-mountainlionseed-mountainlion-lion-snowleopard-leopard.merged-1.sucatalog.gz"

check software update still works :D

Mike MA
Jan 23, 2013, 03:16 PM
I just hope it will be released by tomorrow - on the other hand, Apple really seems to be working hard on this one so it could be worth the waiting....

Zudeo
Jan 23, 2013, 03:29 PM
still no reason for "switching" from SL to ML. i have to admit that airdrop is nice, but not so widespread. all the social cr@p can go to hell. i want back proper exposŤ and spaces.

You can go to Mission Control in Sysprefs and uncheck 'Group Windows by Application'

http://cl.ly/MOOH

It's not exposť but it's the best I can come up with.

Macman45
Jan 24, 2013, 12:16 AM
My 10.8.2 issues:

1) SLOW SHUTDOWNS

2) Poor battery life (2-3 hours, max, on MacBook Pro w/ 92% of original battery capacity)

3) iCal randomly gives errors with Google calendars.

I've seen no changelog (anywhere) that mentions those being addressed.

Add to your list wake from sleep issues on the new iMacs...Only workaround is to use pmset in Terminal to prevent hibernation....It's known, and has been reported so lets hope they fix that...Apart from that, I don't have any real issue except Itunes but that's another story.

vmachiel
Jan 24, 2013, 06:42 AM
Hi, vmachiel. Could you (or anyone else reading this) please explain what happens during those crashes when switching graphics cards? I mean, what do you see on your computer screen when such a crash happens? Is there any kind of message that appears on the screen?

Hi there,

I use istat menus, and what i see when the graphic cards switch is one thread of one processor core gets fully used up for about 15 seconds and then the whole systems freezes. It mostly happens when I try to scroll through a web page really fast, or when I open a folder with 50+ files in it that the system tries to preview.

When I reboot and look in console, it always has the same lines in it regarding nvidea and opengl. When I turn off auto switching of graphic cards in system preferences, I don't have any crashes. When it is on, my system crashes every week or so.

vmachiel
Jan 24, 2013, 12:21 PM
Hi, vmachiel. Could you (or anyone else reading this) please explain what happens during those crashes when switching graphics cards? I mean, what do you see on your computer screen when such a crash happens? Is there any kind of message that appears on the screen?

Do you have similar problems?

STEPHEN SNELL
Jan 24, 2013, 03:50 PM
it kinda feels like this is the last update (or second to last) before 10.9.

(*no, there's a lot of months left between now and july!!!*)

Risco
Jan 24, 2013, 04:01 PM
12D58 is now out



http://9to5mac.com/2013/01/24/apple-releases-os-x-mountain-lion-10-8-3-build-12d58-to-testers/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%209To5Mac-MacAllDay%20%289%20to%205%20Mac%20-%20Apple%20Intelligence%29

milo
Jan 30, 2013, 03:34 PM
12d61 just released.

slumpey326
Jan 30, 2013, 03:47 PM
12d61 just released.

can anyone tell yet if this fixes the slow boot down on macbook airs and macbook pros. Before Mountain Lion it would be like 2-3 seconds, now it takes like around 15 seconds. It should be like this.

Peace
Jan 30, 2013, 03:50 PM
I'm gonna guess a public release sometime this week or even today.

Probably Friday.

milo
Jan 30, 2013, 04:30 PM
Anything is possible, but I read elsewhere that they ran into something that has held it up a bit longer.