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MacBytes
Oct 5, 2005, 02:37 PM
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Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: 'We sell our songs through iPods, but we don't have share of iPod revenue' (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20051005153741)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

nagromme
Oct 5, 2005, 02:51 PM
Absurd.

Nearly all the music bought and transferred to iPods is from CDs, not downloads.

iPods encourage music listening, exploration, collection, and library management. iPods, in short, encourage music purchases--which for now means CDs more then downloads.

So if anything, Apple should get a cut of every CD sale. :rolleyes:

Meanwhile music is NOT sold through iPods, it's sold through iTunes--and the labels not only get a share of the revenue, they get most of it! Apple's barely breaking even on the downloads.

24C
Oct 5, 2005, 02:57 PM
Absurd..ditto

It's like we want a share of a VCR sale, because we make the videos that go in them :confused:

Where does this 'logic' stop, who knows maybe the next thing will be the soap powder manufacturers wanting a cut on the washing machines :D

wordmunger
Oct 5, 2005, 02:59 PM
It's NOT like MTV. MTV got content through the music labels for free. Apple pays roughly 2/3 of its iTMS sales directly to the record labels. The situation with Apple is as if MTV was paying for the videos and the record companies complained that they don't get a cut of TV sales.

I mostly use my shuffle for podcasts and as a flash drive. I'm supposed to give the music industry a cut of that?

NinjaMonkey
Oct 5, 2005, 03:28 PM
Apple pays labels 70 cents or more. Apple keeps 29 cents to cover bandwith and creditcard transaction fees. The labels pay for no distribution, promotion or stock, yet they still want more money.

Stella
Oct 5, 2005, 03:29 PM
The iPod is Apple property. Why on Earth should music industry have a slice of iPod profits?

As has been previously said by other people, Oil companies do not demand a share of the motor industries profits...

dubbz
Oct 5, 2005, 03:36 PM
Every time I read about the record companies in the news, I get more and more annoyed! :mad:

If people just transfered part of their salaries straight into the record companies' bank accounts, without them having to lift a finger or do any work or make any product, they'd probably complain that people didn't transfer enough.

They should crash and burn and die.

JereIC
Oct 5, 2005, 03:54 PM
Mr. Edgar Bronfman Jr., do you get a portion of the sales from CD players? How about tape decks? Record players? Car stereos? Radios? Speakers? Headphones? Cell phones?

No?

Then, shut up. You've already jacked up the price of CDs with your greed, don't touch my iPod.

javabear90
Oct 5, 2005, 04:05 PM
Those greedy little bastards !! :mad:

cwtnospam
Oct 5, 2005, 04:10 PM
I'd really like to know just what a company like Warner Music Group actually does to earn money! They don't make the music, that's what the artists do, and they don't sell it, that's what iTunes does. It seems to me that the reason we hear so much from them is that 1) They have too much time on their hands, and 2) They know their days are numbered, so they're trying to do everything they can to delay their demise.

mrsebastian
Oct 5, 2005, 04:13 PM
i'm also getting fed up hearing about this [bleep]! just to point out the obvious, it's not the ipod, but itunes... anyway... just for sake of argument, it would be very interesting to actually get people to boycott the music industry as a whole. i don't believe in stealing music online as a form of protest, but i do have another idea...

just for one day, do NOT listen to music on the radio, do NOT watch videos on tv, do NOT buy cds/tapes/etc., do NOT make purchases online from itunes/etc., and we might as well take it to the extreme for just one day. avoid anything that has music involved, period. cut out all radio, tv, don't go to any establishment that has music playing, etc.

it's a rather intense and not very realistic idea, but if you consider that it would effect everyone in some way, indirectly or directly. everyone from the greedy record companies, to the gap at your local mall, to radio stations and their advertises... you get the point. if we could pull together to achieve that, the record companies would be at the mercy of every business that is losing money that day... before the flame throwers come out, think about it and like i said it's not very realistic.

dubbz
Oct 5, 2005, 04:15 PM
I'd really like to know just what a company like Warner Music Group actually does to earn money!

They get their money from the artists, who are knee deep in debt.

cwtnospam
Oct 5, 2005, 04:17 PM
They get their money from the artists, who are knee deep in debt.I said EARN money, not steal. ;)

SiliconAddict
Oct 5, 2005, 04:29 PM
Umm actually they sell their songs through iTMS and they get a cut of each sale and that songs goes to iTunes which is free. So yah. I think Apple is being a real ******* for not giving the RIAA a share of FREE. How dare they.

cc bcc
Oct 5, 2005, 04:32 PM
I think they should be paying Apple, because most of the music is made on the mac. Same logic.

sillycybin
Oct 5, 2005, 04:47 PM
I dont buy any of the music that any of those Major labels offer anyways, so this doesnt bother me one bit. The only music I've bought off of iTunes was some Bob Marley and I also bought some christmas music last year, last minute, for a christmas party.

I dont understand why they (major record labels) expect part iPod profit. It makes absolutely no sense.

This is nothing more than a "who's got the biggest dink" contest

nagromme
Oct 5, 2005, 04:55 PM
it's a rather intense and not very realistic idea

As a protest and public anti-RIAA statement, I think it IS realistic. I'll go farther and say a whole WEEK would be realistic. Most people wouldn't participate--but that's true of any protest.

With proper planning, a LOT of people would participate, and hopefully a productive message could be attached to that.

Some_Big_Spoon
Oct 5, 2005, 05:11 PM
Gas companies want share of all Fords sold? Energizer wants a piece of the digital camera profits? It's almost like they think we're retarded.

Some_Big_Spoon
Oct 5, 2005, 05:16 PM
And suing children. Don't forget about that.

They get their money from the artists, who are knee deep in debt.

SiliconAddict
Oct 5, 2005, 05:34 PM
And suing children. Don't forget about that.


And dead people. Don't forget the dead people. :)

SiliconAddict
Oct 5, 2005, 05:37 PM
As a protest and public anti-RIAA statement, I think it IS realistic. I'll go farther and say a whole WEEK would be realistic. Most people wouldn't participate--but that's true of any protest.


Naa they would just blame their losses on further proof that pirating is rampant and that something needs to be "done" about it. :(

mwpeters8182
Oct 5, 2005, 07:01 PM
Mr. Edgar Bronfman Jr., do you get a portion of the sales from CD players? How about tape decks? Record players? Car stereos? Radios? Speakers? Headphones? Cell phones?

No?

Then, shut up. You've already jacked up the price of CDs with your greed, don't touch my iPod.

Actually, to manufacture a CD you have to PAY a royalty to the folks who developed the CD standard. Same goes for a DVD. However, for companies like Sony, they're part of the group. Same goes for making players, if I recall.

Phatpat
Oct 5, 2005, 07:39 PM
So, if I want to listen to music legally, and not support the RIAA, where do I go? What do I listen to?

Some_Big_Spoon
Oct 5, 2005, 08:38 PM
Harvey Danger of Seattle just released their new album totally free to the world as a big F U to the RIAA.. even have lots of Anti-RIAA stuff in their site, shows, etc. They opened for Death Cab late last month and were in top form. You may remember them from their song "Flagpole Sitta"

Anyway, they, and anyone else not associated with the RIAA knows that bands make nothing from CD's, or the RIAA especially, and that the RIAA is nothing more than a crime syndicate, so they gave the album away for free in hopes that you'll come to their shows, which is where they actually earn a living.

So, live smart and pure, grab their album from the Harvey Danger Site (http://www.harveydanger.com/) and let the RIAA know that you don't condone criminal activity, even when it's bought and paid for through the "US Congress"

So, if I want to listen to music legally, and not support the RIAA, where do I go? What do I listen to?

271
Oct 5, 2005, 08:50 PM
f@#king ridiculous. the record industry should kiss apple's behind for coming up w/a download solution that people want to use and are willing to pay for.

Did sony give a share of revenues from the walkman to the record industry???

absurd. these morons in the record industry still dont get it. they just dont understand how things are shifting from a piece of something (CD, vinyl) to a bunch of bits on a server somewhere.

if record companies would fire some of those accountants they have running the show and get creative music lovers back in the captain's seat then they might get the general public excited about music again the way the ipod has! i know so many people who listen to so much more music and buy so much more music simply because they can easily take it with them and use up time here and there listening to music.

solvs
Oct 5, 2005, 09:20 PM
And dead people. Don't forget the dead people. :)
And Mac users. That was really funny.

Wasn't this article already posted? Or is it just repeating the same crap spewed forth by the evil that is the RIAA? Or is this a new industry stooge spewing the same crap? Who can tell anymore. Idiots.

Edit: Hey, I'm a 68040! I have no life! I don't really care what these ******* think.

Some_Big_Spoon
Oct 5, 2005, 09:21 PM
New stooge. Just like the GOP, the RIAA falls into line one after another.. if they say it enough times, it "becomes" fact.

And Mac users. That was really funny.

Wasn't this article already posted? Or is it just repeating the same crap spewed forth by the evil that is the RIAA? Or is this a new industry stooge spewing the same crap? Who can tell anymore. Idiots.

northernleitz
Oct 5, 2005, 10:15 PM
See, this is why I can't stand people in the corporate world. What does monetize mean? Is that even a word?

Everyone seems to agree that this guy's evil for suggesting that Warner Music deserves a cut of iPod revenue (I guess that's what he's saying) but can he really do that legally? Is there precedent for this? Or would Congress have to pass some sort of law saying he could.... Oh God, we're all screwed.

tsaxer
Oct 5, 2005, 10:48 PM
Gosh, thr RIAA, and the individual companies, are just great big PR nightmares. How can you market with an image like that? Come buy from us, we're evil, but at least most of our music is crap...
Ugh, this just goes to further validate my theory that these guys high up in the biz have done waaaay more drugs than the 'talent.'

Does Pioneer, Kenwood, GPX, and the others give warner a piece of their profits because all their CD's are played on CD players? Now I need to take _my_ happy meds ;) .

danielsan26
Oct 5, 2005, 10:52 PM
So, live smart and pure, grab their album from the Harvey Danger Site (http://www.harveydanger.com/) and let the RIAA know that you don't condone criminal activity, even when it's bought and paid for through the "US Congress"
Sorry for the tangent, but I downloaded their album, but it seems to be in an .ogg format that doesn't want to import into iTunes. What should I do from here?

Edit: I saw the .mp3 direct download version, but since my library is essentially all lossless anyway I thought I'd try to figure out how to do the hi-fi version. :D TIA for any help.

Edit 2: I used Toast 7 to export them as .aiff, then imported them into itunes and converted to apple lossless. Do any of you audiophiles know if I have just degraded the quality?

tsaxer
Oct 5, 2005, 11:23 PM
Sorry for the tangent, but I downloaded their album, but it seems to be in an .ogg format that doesn't want to import into iTunes. What should I do from here?

Edit: I saw the .mp3 direct download version, but since my library is essentially all lossless anyway I thought I'd try to figure out how to do the hi-fi version. :D TIA for any help.

Edit 2: I used Toast 7 to export them as .aiff, then imported them into itunes and converted to apple lossless. Do any of you audiophiles know if I have just degraded the quality?

I doubt you degraded it, but I also doubt that you gained much, if anything, since the file had already been compressed using a lossy format. Using apple lossless won't be able to re-insert the lost data into the file. So you might just want to go with the original Mp3's.

Just my understanding of it anyway,
Peace

271
Oct 5, 2005, 11:30 PM
Sorry for the tangent, but I downloaded their album, but it seems to be in an .ogg format that doesn't want to import into iTunes. What should I do from here?

Edit: I saw the .mp3 direct download version, but since my library is essentially all lossless anyway I thought I'd try to figure out how to do the hi-fi version. :D TIA for any help.

Edit 2: I used Toast 7 to export them as .aiff, then imported them into itunes and converted to apple lossless. Do any of you audiophiles know if I have just degraded the quality?


google "audacity audio editor". download it. it's free. also, follow instructions @ the site and download the LAME mp3 encoder. Audacity supports ogg files so you can open it and save it as an mp3. one less conversion that way but i doubt you'll hear any difference as ogg/mp3 are pretty similar sounding.

271
Oct 5, 2005, 11:33 PM
Gosh, thr RIAA, and the individual companies, are just great big PR nightmares. How can you market with an image like that? Come buy from us, we're evil, but at least most of our music is crap...
Ugh, this just goes to further validate my theory that these guys high up in the biz have done waaaay more drugs than the 'talent.'

Does Pioneer, Kenwood, GPX, and the others give warner a piece of their profits because all their CD's are played on CD players? Now I need to take _my_ happy meds ;) .

they fired the guys who did all the drugs... the people who actually know something about music and believe in the music and not just turning out brittney spears clones.. they're all gone.. now all the people running the show are CPA's just trying to increase profits.. they have no clue how it works.. they dont understand investing in a band for a couple years and developing them.. it's all American Idol instant hits.. CRAPULENCE!

oh- re: kenwood sony etc sharin gprofits from walkmans and CD players.. exaclty.. it's absurd. who do these people think they are? they should be thanking apple everyday for providing a working solution to paid for downloads.. a system people actually use and can't wait to use in places where they dont have it yet.

danielsan26
Oct 6, 2005, 12:22 AM
I doubt you degraded it, but I also doubt that you gained much, if anything, since the file had already been compressed using a lossy format. Using apple lossless won't be able to re-insert the lost data into the file. So you might just want to go with the original Mp3's.

Just my understanding of it anyway,
Peace
Thanks for the quick reply, I definitely think you're right because I've easily quadrupled the size of the files with negligible quality gain. If I had read the website more carefully I would've seen that the .mp3 you get over torrent is better than the .mp3 you get from direct download. So, I've just imported the 210+bps VBR .mp3 and then moved them over as comparable AAC VBR's for consistency. Thanks again for the help.

NicP
Oct 6, 2005, 01:40 AM
As a protest and public anti-RIAA statement, I think it IS realistic. I'll go farther and say a whole WEEK would be realistic. Most people wouldn't participate--but that's true of any protest.

With proper planning, a LOT of people would participate, and hopefully a productive message could be attached to that.

I dont buy any RIAA music anyway, even if i found some RIAA music that didnt suck i would refuse to buy it.

Of course the reduction in music sales this results in isnt because of a boycott to the RIAA, its clearly because if music piracy.

Silencio
Oct 6, 2005, 02:06 AM
And Apple doesn't get a share of the t-shirt sales: the sweetest plum of them all!

Tough darts, RIAA.

macnulty
Oct 6, 2005, 07:40 AM
It's comments and goals of Mr. Bronfman that will encourage piracy. If he accomplishes what he's talking about music piracy will turn into a "Robin Hood" metaphor. "I'll steal the music but pay to go see the artists in concert". Secondly what he actually talking about is a iPod tax to be paid directly to the industry. Apple will not take a hit on its' profit just to give the recording a slice of the pie, they will raise prices to cover the added fee. In the end the consumer will pay not Apple.

Gasu E.
Oct 6, 2005, 08:35 AM
[QUOTE=Some_Big_Spoon]Gas companies want share of all Fords sold? QUOTE]

Just a side note-- several people have raised this "oil companies getting a share of car company profits analogy." This is a bad analogy; a more accurate analogy would be the automobile companies getting a share of the oil company profits. Autos/music provide the consumer value; gasoline (petrol)/iTunes-iPod are the enablers.

Fender2112
Oct 6, 2005, 09:02 AM
The record companies need to stop whining like a bunch of babies. They negotiated with Apple and made a deal. When it's time to renegotiate they can speak their minds and hopefully get more of what they want. And there's nothing wrong with ALL parties involved wanting a little more of the pie.

Before the dust settles, I believe both Apple and the record companies will have to give a little.

Yvan256
Oct 6, 2005, 09:56 AM
I saw the .mp3 direct download version, but since my library is essentially all lossless anyway I thought I'd try to figure out how to do the hi-fi version. :D TIA for any help.

I used Toast 7 to export them as .aiff, then imported them into itunes and converted to apple lossless. Do any of you audiophiles know if I have just degraded the quality?

You didn't degrade the quality at all, but you do have bigger files for absolutely nothing. You should just keep using the original MP3 files (but do not re-encode your new "lossless" files into MP3!)

Yvan256
Oct 6, 2005, 09:58 AM
The record companies need to stop whining like a bunch of babies. They negotiated with Apple and made a deal. When it's time to renegotiate they can speak their minds and hopefully get more of what they want. And there's nothing wrong with ALL parties involved wanting a little more of the pie.

Before the dust settles, I believe both Apple and the record companies will have to give a little.

The deals end up in 3 months, I think. Hence all the fuss we hear about these days.

dubbz
Oct 6, 2005, 09:59 AM
And suing children. Don't forget about that.

Is it this case (http://p2pnet.net/story/6485) you're thinking about, or is the linked case a new one?

Yvan256
Oct 6, 2005, 10:03 AM
Thanks for the quick reply, I definitely think you're right because I've easily quadrupled the size of the files with negligible quality gain. If I had read the website more carefully I would've seen that the .mp3 you get over torrent is better than the .mp3 you get from direct download. So, I've just imported the 210+bps VBR .mp3 and then moved them over as comparable AAC VBR's for consistency. Thanks again for the help.

1. You didn't get any quality gain in going from MP3 to Apple Lossless.
2. You lost quality by converting the MP3 to AAC (no matter which bitrate you've used). Unless you've gone from MP3 210kbps+ VBR to AAC 128kbps, which will affect audio quality but at least give you smaller files.

To preserve the audio quality, simply use the original MP3 files from the website. ANY re-encoding will either lower the audio quality (MP3 or AAC) or increase the file size (AIFF, WAV, Apple Lossless).

Edit: I just understood your "torrent vs direct download" comment. Sorry. :D

Abstract
Oct 6, 2005, 10:21 AM
FROM THIS POINT FORWARD, YOU SHOULD ONLY PAY FOR ALBUMS THAT ARE LISTED ON THIS SITE (http://www.magnetbox.com/riaa/zeitgeist_topamazonsafe.asp)

Notice that there are still lots of good, semi-bit indie artists listed on this site.

That, or steal it. I don't care anymore. The RIAA is ridiculous. I will steal from now on, or buy an album from one of the artists listed on the site i just provided.

danielsan26
Oct 6, 2005, 10:27 AM
1. You didn't get any quality gain in going from MP3 to Apple Lossless.
2. The method (Torrent, P2P or direct download) of getting the MP3 files doesn't affect the quality of the MP3 files themselves.
3. You lost quality by converting the MP3 to AAC (no matter which bitrate you've used).

Just use the original MP3 files from the website. ANY re-encoding will either lower the audio quality (MP3 or AAC) or increase the file size (AIFF, WAV, Apple Lossless).
Since you all sound like you REALLY know what you're talking about, can I ask you guys a question? Almost my entire library is Apple Lossless, which came from me importing all my personal (legitimately purchased) CD's that way. I was paranoid about losing quality, although it was mostly just safeguarding against the future since I don't have heardphones or a car system of high enough caliber to tell the difference. I can tell the difference between lossless and others when streaming over airport to my logitech speakers, but I mostly wanted to ensure that if I ever lost a CD, or Apple came out with a more efficient codec, that I could simply convert these and save space and not ever lose any quality.

I would like to save some space however, if there is a better way, since currently I have about 4500 songs comprising a whopping 120GB on an external drive. I have maybe a dozen songs from iTMS that I bought simply because I couldn't bring myself to buy the rest of a CD that I knew would be absolute garbage. To use my 40GB iPod I keep a 192VBR AAC version of my library on my powerbook which is enough to hold them all. I'm really sorry for posting off subject, and if there is a MR thread that this could go to, I appreciate the redirect or any help in advance.

Still waiting for the 200GB iPod that plays wirelessly to the implant in your head at 1200 kbps.

Yvan256
Oct 6, 2005, 11:00 AM
[...] Almost my entire library is Apple Lossless, which came from me importing all my personal (legitimately purchased) CD's that way. I was paranoid about losing quality, although it was mostly just safeguarding against the future [...] but I mostly wanted to ensure that if I ever lost a CD, or Apple came out with a more efficient codec, that I could simply convert these and save space and not ever lose any quality. [...] To use my 40GB iPod I keep a 192VBR AAC version of my library on my powerbook which is enough to hold them all.

For what you want to do, it's exactly what you need to do (CD -> Apple Lossless -> lossy format for iPod).

In fact, I plan to re-rip my entire library in Apple Lossless myself, in case Apple ever releases "HE-AAC" (or whatever it's called). Also, my library won't fit on my iPod nano and I can't decide if I should go lower bitrate or be more picky at choosing which songs go onto it.

And, just to stay on-topic, the RIAA may suck, but there's a lot of other legitimate places to get music from aside from the link above (if you like game music, there's always Overclocked ReMix (http://www.ocremix.org/)).

macnulty
Oct 6, 2005, 06:00 PM
Screw the recording industry but support the artist.
Pirate the recording but buy a ticket to the show whether you go or not.

eas
Oct 7, 2005, 11:08 AM
Sorry for the tangent, but I downloaded their album, but it seems to be in an .ogg format that doesn't want to import into iTunes. What should I do from here?

Edit: I saw the .mp3 direct download version, but since my library is essentially all lossless anyway I thought I'd try to figure out how to do the hi-fi version. :D TIA for any help.

Edit 2: I used Toast 7 to export them as .aiff, then imported them into itunes and converted to apple lossless. Do any of you audiophiles know if I have just degraded the quality?

Why did you download the OGG Torrent? There is a Torrent with high-quality MP3 files too (higher quality than the direct download). The link is one line above the link to the OGG on their download page.

dejo
Oct 7, 2005, 11:19 AM
Screw the recording industry but support the artist.
Pirate the recording but buy a ticket to the show whether you go or not.

Unless you are unable to avoid the "other" pirate: Ticketmaster...

macnulty
Oct 7, 2005, 11:15 PM
Unless you are unable to avoid the "other" pirate: Ticketmaster...

I guess there is always a slug, Pearl Jam tried.

Buy at the Box Office.