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MacRumors
Jan 26, 2013, 03:18 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/26/fully-functional-mame-emulator-appears-in-app-store/)


TouchArcade notes (http://toucharcade.com/2013/01/26/mame-is-back-in-the-app-store-for-now-with-gridlee/) the appearance of an arcade game called Gridlee (http://appshopper.com/games/gridlee) in the App Store.

Gridlee is a 1983 arcade game that was never officially released, but the code was later released for free for non-commercial usage in 2001. The App Store app uses MAME 0.139u1 (MAME4iOS) to provide the emulation engine for the game. MAME (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAME) is a popular arcade machine emulator that will run thousands of arcade games if you have the original ROMs.

When launching the free app, users are greeted with the Gridlee game. TouchArcade readers (http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?threadid=176097), however, quickly noticed that additional ROMs could be copied into the App's ROM directory (without jailbreaking), revealing the fully functional MAME emulator.When word of this hit our forums, readers were quick to pull out iExplore (http://www.macroplant.com/iexplorer/) and begin digging about the app's directory structure looking for a ROM folder. Well, it's in there, and sure enough, if one copies other MAME ROMs into that folder, the Gridlee app starts up with the standard MAME4iOS ROM listing, allowing for a great many games beyond just Gridlee to be played on the iPhone or iPad in this Universal app.http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/01/IMG_0140-525x393.png
The story is similar to the iMAME Emulator (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/12/21/imame-arcade-emulator-hits-the-app-store-for-now/) that was released into the App Store in December, 2011. Apple quickly pulled that app a few days after its release. While a number of individual emulators do exist on the App Store, Apple has been more restrictive about these open emulators, presumably due to potential legal issues.

Gridlee is a free download on the App Store. [Direct Link (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id595117070?mt=8)]

Article Link: Fully Functional MAME Emulator Appears in App Store (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/26/fully-functional-mame-emulator-appears-in-app-store/)



viperGTS
Jan 26, 2013, 03:29 PM
Someone should sneak a Gameboy Advance emulator into the App Store. :D

-Ryan-
Jan 26, 2013, 03:34 PM
Someone should sneak a Gameboy Advance emulator into the App Store. :D

Now we're talking. :)

lolkthxbai
Jan 26, 2013, 03:51 PM
That would mean looking for a free open version of a gameboy adv game no?

el-John-o
Jan 26, 2013, 03:56 PM
That would mean looking for a free open version of a gameboy adv game no?

Or a publisher to port the game, but rather than re-writing it for iOS, they could wrap it in a GBA emulator in much the same way.

I imagine, IF something like this is an issue for Apple, they will look more carefully in the future.

alphaprime
Jan 26, 2013, 04:00 PM
Awesome, I already have iMAME before it was pulled, but it's nice to have two options.

Now if they could only sneak in SNES, NES, GBA, Genesis, TG-16, & Neo Geo emulators, we'd be all set. I'm running jailbroken, so I already have the above, but it doesn't look like jailbreaking is going to be around forever (although developer account IPA signing is another alternative..).

WeegieMac
Jan 26, 2013, 04:14 PM
Is this the same MAME engine as the pulled iMame app or a more advanced one capable of some newer games (like SEGA Rally)?

el-John-o
Jan 26, 2013, 04:16 PM
it doesn't look like jailbreaking is going to be around forever (although developer account IPA signing is another alternative..).


See, I don't buy that.

It's getting slower, but it's not dead. There will be new crops of jailbreakers as well. It's no different than when we used to hack game consoles to run linux or backup our games to a hard drive to get really fast load speeds. I had an original XBOX with a 120GB Hard Drive with all of my games on it, and some homebrew games! A new firmware update would come out and take forever to softmod, or sometimes there would only be hardmods available, it goes back and forth.

Jailbreaking is getting slower, but it's far from dead.

babyj
Jan 26, 2013, 04:23 PM
Is this the same MAME engine as the pulled iMame app or a more advanced one capable of some newer games (like SEGA Rally)?

Think all the mobile versions are based off the same version of Mame. Believe the problem is down to processor power more than anything else, though I recall there being some behind-the-scenes changes in the Mame code in later versions which doesn't help either.

WeegieMac
Jan 26, 2013, 04:30 PM
Think all the mobile versions are based off the same version of Mame. Believe the problem is down to processor power more than anything else, though I recall there being some behind-the-scenes changes in the Mame code in later versions which doesn't help either.

Ah, ok ... cheers for that.

I really wish I hadn't sold my huge Saturn collection years ago.

Damn I miss SEGA Rally ...

ArtOfWarfare
Jan 26, 2013, 04:35 PM
I've already got iMAME, so no need for this.

As far as a GBA emulator... I have one on my iMac. I don't have the source code for it, but I wouldn't imagine it's very difficult for whoever does have it to port it over to iOS.

arn
Jan 26, 2013, 04:40 PM
Is this the same MAME engine as the pulled iMame app or a more advanced one capable of some newer games (like SEGA Rally)?

This is a newer version.

----------

I've already got iMAME, so no need for this.

As far as a GBA emulator... I have one on my iMac. I don't have the source code for it, but I wouldn't imagine it's very difficult for whoever does have it to port it over to iOS.

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2647375&postcount=53

macfacts
Jan 26, 2013, 04:55 PM
That would mean looking for a free open version of a gameboy adv game no?

Maybe this game, Another World, for gba

http://ca.ign.com/games/another-world/gba-744458

Soulstorm
Jan 26, 2013, 05:31 PM
Nice one. Downloading now, before apple decides to take it out.

stukick
Jan 26, 2013, 06:51 PM
Just tried this. iMAME is better.

JPChicago
Jan 26, 2013, 07:24 PM
What is this? I think I'm missing something here :/

Zoiks
Jan 26, 2013, 07:39 PM
iMAME is better.

How? Please give more detail.

More ROMs compatible with iMame? iMame more stable?

Thanks. :)

bradl
Jan 26, 2013, 07:49 PM
How? Please give more detail.

More ROMs compatible with iMame? iMame more stable?

Thanks. :)

I'd like more analysis as well.

Either way here's the obligatory "in before it's pulled!"

:D

BL.

babyj
Jan 26, 2013, 07:51 PM
This is a newer version.

Didn't realise they'd jumped ahead so far on the Mame version, though it is still a few years old. Will be interesting to see what it's like playing some of the more recent games.

dazed
Jan 26, 2013, 08:16 PM
I've never used iexplore before. Could be fun seeing what games I can play :)


The fact this has to be snuck into the store is ridiculous.

Mackan
Jan 26, 2013, 09:04 PM
Apple doesn't want you to have fun, so they'll pull this one very soon. Back to Angry Birds... What a waste.

Am3r1ca16
Jan 26, 2013, 09:30 PM
i want to play pokemon games on my iPhone! without jailbreak! not some 1984 games!

macsrcool1234
Jan 26, 2013, 09:57 PM
i want to play pokemon games on my iPhone! without jailbreak! not some 1984 games!

I'll take things that will never happen for $500.

Am3r1ca16
Jan 26, 2013, 10:26 PM
I'll take things that will never happen for $500.

make it $1923473895743974905739504325723957236902

dXTC
Jan 26, 2013, 10:53 PM
Got this for my new iPhone 5. I'll have to get used to the onscreen joystick; it's not as instantly responsive as playing MAME OS X using an actual keyboard. Still, it's nice for casual retro gaming on the go.

garylapointe
Jan 26, 2013, 10:56 PM
Got this for my new iPhone 5. I'll have to get used to the onscreen joystick; it's not as instantly responsive as playing MAME OS X using an actual keyboard. Still, it's nice for casual retro gaming on the go.

I wonder if this would work with the keyboard (bluetooth).

Gary

kylera
Jan 26, 2013, 11:02 PM
On an aside, how do you pronounce MAME? Like "maim" or like "mah-meh"?

lunaoso
Jan 26, 2013, 11:06 PM
Got this for my new iPhone 5. I'll have to get used to the onscreen joystick; it's not as instantly responsive as playing MAME OS X using an actual keyboard. Still, it's nice for casual retro gaming on the go.

I've noticed that as well. Seems like it almost drags it in the wrong direction too. Still pretty cool though.

msandersen
Jan 26, 2013, 11:21 PM
Nice! Installed it! My iPhone is getting pretty full though, but will try a couple of games one at a time just for the novelty value.

dtechlogic
Jan 26, 2013, 11:56 PM
Nice, I like it just transfer my mame 32 collection and it is working awesome. Will it read the CHD files. I have those game files. like Killer Instinct II. I have the collection of MAMe, SEGA, SNES, NES.

ksgant
Jan 27, 2013, 02:18 AM
So...how do you get ROMS into the game?

Nevermind. Have to use iExplorer...as it says in the article. I didn't know what that was and was unfamiliar with it.

asiga
Jan 27, 2013, 03:36 AM
I hope the mobile OS scene will finish soon, as there isn't one that really cares for users. Android is just scary: why antiviruses are recommended on an OS derived from Linux is beyond logic: they took Linux and "evolved" it towards Windows 95 class security. OTOH, iOS has the security that Android should have, but unfortunately the iOS security is driven not by users convenience, but by Apple convenience: approval on the AppStore is done on the basis of what Apple likes, not what users want.

Fortunately, we're quickly arriving to a moment where new released tablets can run complete OSs, such as complete Windows8, and Linux, so we can finally use mobile devices that have adequate security, aren't limited on features, and have a long time evolution. The sad point is I don't see Apple releasing an OSX tablet, but anyway I hope the mobile OSs scene (android and iOS) to finish soon and never come back, for the good of Humankind.

MrMister111
Jan 27, 2013, 04:10 AM
Sorry for being a dope but how do I get ROMs onto it please? Can I only use this iExplorer to get ROMs on? Is there any other way?

I've got the app from the store in case it gets pulled but would love to play done retro games

Death-T
Jan 27, 2013, 04:44 AM
I hope the mobile OS scene will finish soon, as there isn't one that really cares for users. Android is just scary: why antiviruses are recommended on an OS derived from Linux is beyond logic: they took Linux and "evolved" it towards Windows 95 class security. OTOH, iOS has the security that Android should have, but unfortunately the iOS security is driven not by users convenience, but by Apple convenience: approval on the AppStore is done on the basis of what Apple likes, not what users want.

Fortunately, we're quickly arriving to a moment where new released tablets can run complete OSs, such as complete Windows8, and Linux, so we can finally use mobile devices that have adequate security, aren't limited on features, and have a long time evolution. The sad point is I don't see Apple releasing an OSX tablet, but anyway I hope the mobile OSs scene (android and iOS) to finish soon and never come back, for the good of Humankind.


Eh, these mobile OS systems will probably just keep growing and growing. As long as true desktop OS's stay around I'll be fine. (some people here speculate and even welcome a sort of iOS takeover of OS X...ew) On another note--not trying to start an iOS vs Android debate, but Android is great if you're into emulators because you can pretty much download any of them (GBA, SNES, Mame, PSX, etc) for free without even rooting/jailbreaking your device.

Anyway, does anyone know if one of those iPad arcade setups would work with this Gridlee app?

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/e762/?rkgid=275668648&cpg=ogpla&source=google_pla&gclid=CIL8pcmtiLUCFQcHnQodtjAADQ

This, along with Atari Greatest Hits and a MAME emulator would make the iPad a pretty sweet retro gaming machine. =P

Menneisyys2
Jan 27, 2013, 05:25 AM
Apple doesn't want you to have fun, so they'll pull this one very soon. Back to Angry Birds... What a waste.

Apple is REALLY pathetic some time. Even Microsoft allows MIME emulators (and a lot of other stuff forbidden by Apple; for example, hardware video acceleration) in its appstore.

msandersen
Jan 27, 2013, 06:02 AM
Sorry for being a dope but how do I get ROMs onto it please? Can I only use this iExplorer to get ROMs on? Is there any other way?

I've got the app from the store in case it gets pulled but would love to play done retro games
Yes you can use iExplorer, think there is at least one other app, it can access the Apps directory on the phone without jailbreaking.
Simply expand the Apps on the left sidebar and scroll down to find Gridlee. Click on it to reveal the contents in the middle window.
Expand the Documents folder. In there you will find the MAME folders. The one you want is the Roms directory, where the game Roms go, and by default simply has gridlee.zip.
You'll have to find the Rom files yourself though. Plenty of info on MAME out there, tho much of it can be confusing and overwhelming.

Albright
Jan 27, 2013, 06:05 AM
Someone should sneak a Gameboy Advance emulator into the App Store. :D

It's "Game Boy Advance." "Game Boy" is two words.

That would mean looking for a free open version of a gameboy adv game no?

IT'S TWO FREAKIN' WORDS (nerd rage)

i want to play pokemon games on my iPhone! without jailbreak! not some 1984 games!

It's not Apple's fault that you can't. It's Nintendo's. They don't want to release that game for a platform they're not selling hardware for.

At any rate, I'd like to remind everyone that by using emulators like this to play ROMs that aren't explicitly free, you're committing an act of piracy. Just because a game is older doesn't mean it's not still copyrighted. If that's what you want to do, fine, but at least be consistent and don't look down on those who jailbreak their devices to pirate iOS software at the same time - stealing ROMs is no less a crime.

Uplift
Jan 27, 2013, 07:15 AM
I've struggled to get most ROMS working.

some error about CHD files missing.

would love some info on this if anyone got it working? (PM?)

Thanks

MrMister111
Jan 27, 2013, 07:34 AM
Sorry for being a dope but how do I get ROMs onto it please? Can I only use this iExplorer to get ROMs on? Is there any other way?

I've got the app from the store in case it gets pulled but would love to play done retro games



Yes you can use iExplorer, think there is at least one other app, it can access the Apps directory on the phone without jailbreaking.
Simply expand the Apps on the left sidebar and scroll down to find Gridlee. Click on it to reveal the contents in the middle window.
Expand the Documents folder. In there you will find the MAME folders. The one you want is the Roms directory, where the game Roms go, and by default simply has gridlee.zip.
You'll have to find the Rom files yourself though. Plenty of info on MAME out there, tho much of it can be confusing and overwhelming.
Thanks for that. It's just I don't want to buy iExplorer for $35 for it not to work. Is there no (yeh I'm a cheap skate!!), free apps that can get the ROMs on?

justperry
Jan 27, 2013, 07:44 AM
Thanks for that. It's just I don't want to buy iExplorer for $35 for it not to work. Is there no (yeh I'm a cheap skate!!), free apps that can get the ROMs on?

What about putting them there before the app gets copied to the iPhone, an App is a zip, change the .ipa to zip and it unzips.

Uplift
Jan 27, 2013, 08:43 AM
Thanks for that. It's just I don't want to buy iExplorer for $35 for it not to work. Is there no (yeh I'm a cheap skate!!), free apps that can get the ROMs on?

iFunBox

http://www.i-funbox.com

blakespot
Jan 27, 2013, 09:46 AM
Maybe this game, Another World, for gba

http://ca.ign.com/games/another-world/gba-744458

Or...there's this:
http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=107779



bp

Macrolido
Jan 27, 2013, 10:26 AM
I prefer to use MAME in the OS X with a keyboard.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jan 27, 2013, 10:57 AM
What about putting them there before the app gets copied to the iPhone, an App is a zip, change the .ipa to zip and it unzips.


Tried this but couldn't get it to work. unzip, add, zip, change suffix to .ipa. "Not a valid app". Am I missing something?

december
Jan 27, 2013, 01:03 PM
Has anyone managed to get Neo-Geo games working on either iMame or this new one?

1Alec1
Jan 27, 2013, 01:29 PM
I've already got iMAME, so no need for this.

As far as a GBA emulator... I have one on my iMac. I don't have the source code for it, but I wouldn't imagine it's very difficult for whoever does have it to port it over to iOS.

It could be done with WINE or Rosetta for iOS :D

1Alec1
Jan 27, 2013, 01:47 PM
Very cool! Looks like they did that on purpose, sneaking in a full emulator.

HurryKayne
Jan 27, 2013, 02:28 PM
Nice, I like it just transfer my mame 32 collection and it is working awesome. Will it read the CHD files. I have those game files. like Killer Instinct II. I have the collection of MAMe, SEGA, SNES, NES.

Let me understand...is Snes working on Griddle?

GenesisST
Jan 27, 2013, 03:09 PM
It's "Game Boy Advance." "Game Boy" is two words.



IT'S TWO FREAKIN' WORDS (nerd rage)


I'd love to install it on my ITouch... (wrong capitalization on purpose too!)

mcdspncr
Jan 27, 2013, 03:56 PM
Has anyone checked if there's iCade support yet?

rosalindavenue
Jan 27, 2013, 05:41 PM
Has anyone checked if there's iCade support yet?

Yes, the release notes (under help) indicate that there is iCade support. I don't have one but other forums indicate that it works. Edit: I checked settings; it has iCade settings.

MagnusVonMagnum
Jan 27, 2013, 07:20 PM
Is there an alternative to iExplorer? I don't really want to pay $35+ (and that's ONE license for only ONE of your computers; I have 4 machines running OSX and one dedicated Windows machine) just to copy a flipping file. I don't need to play Galaga on my iPod that badly. I have no need for its other functions. $5 would be more than reasonable for just a file copy utility. I could get an iPod Shuffle for the retail price of this program.

Arcady
Jan 27, 2013, 07:35 PM
I can verify that it works with iCade and iCade jr.

...back to playing Galaga now...


As for alternatives to iExplorer, use Google to look it up, there's a lot of free software that does the same thing.

ZZ Bottom
Jan 27, 2013, 09:27 PM
At any rate, I'd like to remind everyone that by using emulators like this to play ROMs that aren't explicitly free, you're committing an act of piracy. Just because a game is older doesn't mean it's not still copyrighted. If that's what you want to do, fine, but at least be consistent and don't look down on those who jailbreak their devices to pirate iOS software at the same time - stealing ROMs is no less a crime.

No you're right... pirating games which cannot be purchased due to the fact that there doesn't exist a modern port is the exact same as pirating iOS apps that are currently available for purchase...

By the way, I happily bought the X-Men arcade game off the App store when it appeared despite already having a rom version in the iMame app. Atari offers a nice set of arcade games in their apps, but there are too many gems still unobtainable outside of piracy or buying a vintage arcade machine.

----------

Is there an alternative to iExplorer? I don't really want to pay $35+ (and that's ONE license for only ONE of your computers; I have 4 machines running OSX and one dedicated Windows machine) just to copy a flipping file. I don't need to play Galaga on my iPod that badly. I have no need for its other functions. $5 would be more than reasonable for just a file copy utility. I could get an iPod Shuffle for the retail price of this program.

Yes, it's called iFunBox. It's free and does everything you'd need.

http://www.i-funbox.com

brownpaw
Jan 27, 2013, 09:30 PM
Yes, it's called iFunBox. It's free and does everything you'd need.
http://www.i-funbox.com

I second iFunBox. Free and worked great for me!

E.Lizardo
Jan 27, 2013, 09:52 PM
See, I don't buy that.

It's getting slower, but it's not dead. There will be new crops of jailbreakers as well. It's no different than when we used to hack game consoles to run linux or backup our games to a hard drive to get really fast load speeds. I had an original XBOX with a 120GB Hard Drive with all of my games on it, and some homebrew games! A new firmware update would come out and take forever to softmod, or sometimes there would only be hardmods available, it goes back and forth.

Jailbreaking is getting slower, but it's far from dead.

How long does the ATV3 have to be unjailbroken before you give up?

----------

On an aside, how do you pronounce MAME? Like "maim" or like "mah-meh"?

should rhyme with "same"

Kaibelf
Jan 27, 2013, 10:12 PM
Apple doesn't want you to have fun, so they'll pull this one very soon. Back to Angry Birds... What a waste.

Poor baby. Apple has nothing to do with it. If the game developers choose to release on iOS then there you go, and if they don't, deal with it. Otherwise, you're just stealing, so spare us the lame "I'm just having fun" garbage. Pay for others' work.

koban4max
Jan 27, 2013, 10:45 PM
i don't see this emulator on app store. where i get emulators for iphone and mac?

Rajani Isa
Jan 27, 2013, 11:01 PM
Poor baby. Apple has nothing to do with it. If the game developers choose to release on iOS then there you go, and if they don't, deal with it. Otherwise, you're just stealing, so spare us the lame "I'm just having fun" garbage. Pay for others' work.

So Apple has nothing to do with this app staying on Apple's Appstore?

Rajani Isa
Jan 27, 2013, 11:23 PM
i don't see this emulator on app store. where i get emulators for iphone and mac?

The program is called "Gridlee" - showing up in the US iTunes store for me as of this posting.

tillsbury
Jan 27, 2013, 11:32 PM
It had better have been put there as a MAME placeholder, as the game itself is dire! Not even worth the price...

Mackan
Jan 28, 2013, 12:05 AM
Poor baby. Apple has nothing to do with it. If the game developers choose to release on iOS then there you go, and if they don't, deal with it. Otherwise, you're just stealing, so spare us the lame "I'm just having fun" garbage. Pay for others' work.

Apple has everything to do with it. Developers were releasing emulators for iOS, but rejected by Apple. And FYI, even Microsoft has approved a SNES emulator recently, on their app store.

And what do you mean by stealing here? You just spew out a lot of BS out of your ass.

Albright
Jan 28, 2013, 01:49 AM
No you're right... pirating games which cannot be purchased due to the fact that there doesn't exist a modern port is the exact same as pirating iOS apps that are currently available for purchase...

By the way, I happily bought the X-Men arcade game off the App store when it appeared despite already having a rom version in the iMame app. Atari offers a nice set of arcade games in their apps, but there are too many gems still unobtainable outside of piracy or buying a vintage arcade machine.

"I can't/wasn't going to buy it anyway" and "But I don't pirate everything" are classic pirate justifications.

Let's address the first one. Let's say that you have an Xbox 360, but Nintendo has just released a cool Wii game that you really want to play, even though you don't have a Wii. Now let's say that a clever hacker has found a way to make that game playable on your Xbox 360. Does that put you morally in the clear to steal that Wii game?

No? Okay, what if it were a GameCube game? Or an N64 game? Or a SNES game? At what point does the the theft of an old game become justifiable?

You can live without pirating old arcade games on your iPhone. As the now semi-classic Ihnatko essay points out, you aren't entitled to anything (http://ihnatko.com/2012/02/20/heavy-hangs-the-bandwidth-that-torrents-the-crown/), no matter how much you may want it.

Jessica Lares
Jan 28, 2013, 03:05 AM
ROMs used to be a bigger issue 10 years ago than they are now. They aren't abandonware, but then they're not being printed anymore either. They wouldn't go after you for downloading those games now anyway.

Better to have 10 different Angry Birds than 20 NES emulators which basically all do the same thing. Even right now on Google Play, there are a bunch of "developers" taking the same NDS source code and compiling it, then putting it up for free, or for $0.99-3.

thejadedmonkey
Jan 28, 2013, 06:44 AM
i want to play pokemon games on my iPhone! without jailbreak! not some 1984 games!get a windows phone, there's a few emulators in the app store for gameboy color, nes, and snes.

Glassed Silver
Jan 28, 2013, 06:49 AM
make it $1923473895743974905739504325723957236902

Change your consultant.
Dr Evil is horrible :p

Glassed Silver:mac

ctdonath
Jan 28, 2013, 09:02 AM
At what point does the the theft of an old game become justifiable?

If it's justified, it isn't theft. If it's theft, it isn't justified. The two terms must complement each other to make sense.
That said, the original purpose of copyright was to protect ownership for a few years - less time than it takes most "abandonware" to warrant the label.
That copyright period now is on the order of a century is indicative that the applicable laws are broken/abused. Of course, that the law is broken doesn't justify an action ... but that the law is broken doesn't justify the law either.
The correct answer is to return the law to its original intent and form, modified if appropriate for any narrow special cases instead of perpetuating copyright on something which no appropriate "owner" cares about or can be found.

Helmutek
Jan 28, 2013, 10:41 AM
wow what a treat! so now I wonder if anyone had any luck with auto-saving hi-score files?

ZZ Bottom
Jan 28, 2013, 11:14 AM
"I can't/wasn't going to buy it anyway" and "But I don't pirate everything" are classic pirate justifications.

Let's address the first one. Let's say that you have an Xbox 360, but Nintendo has just released a cool Wii game that you really want to play, even though you don't have a Wii. Now let's say that a clever hacker has found a way to make that game playable on your Xbox 360. Does that put you morally in the clear to steal that Wii game?

No? Okay, what if it were a GameCube game? Or an N64 game? Or a SNES game? At what point does the the theft of an old game become justifiable?

You can live without pirating old arcade games on your iPhone. As the now semi-classic Ihnatko essay points out, you aren't entitled to anything (http://ihnatko.com/2012/02/20/heavy-hangs-the-bandwidth-that-torrents-the-crown/), no matter how much you may want it.

None of your examples pertain to games that existed only as full size arcade machines... and yes I don't feel remorse for "pirating" games that are long out of production or distribution. I'm not entitled to them and my life will be of no difference without, but I'm not going to ignore the access to them.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jan 28, 2013, 11:25 AM
I second iFunBox. Free and worked great for me!

Could you explain how to use it for this? It looks like files are moving but they don't actually make it to Mini. Tried single files and multiple files. Nothing gets added to that folder.

TrentS
Jan 28, 2013, 11:32 AM
Dang! I see Stargate is on the list of games! I need to get home soon and download this! I would LOVE to be able to play Stargate on my iPad!! Crossing my fingers!!

:) :) :) :)

msandersen
Jan 28, 2013, 11:40 AM
"I can't/wasn't going to buy it anyway" and "But I don't pirate everything" are classic pirate justifications.

Let's address the first one. Let's say that you have an Xbox 360, but Nintendo has just released a cool Wii game that you really want to play, even though you don't have a Wii. Now let's say that a clever hacker has found a way to make that game playable on your Xbox 360. Does that put you morally in the clear to steal that Wii game?

No? Okay, what if it were a GameCube game? Or an N64 game? Or a SNES game? At what point does the the theft of an old game become justifiable?

You can live without pirating old arcade games on your iPhone. As the now semi-classic Ihnatko essay points out, you aren't entitled to anything (http://ihnatko.com/2012/02/20/heavy-hangs-the-bandwidth-that-torrents-the-crown/), no matter how much you may want it.
Since you quote Ihnatko, who admits elsewhere he torrents movies sometimes with the intent of buying them when they become available, from the linked "classic" article:
"So long as you buy it as soon as itís possible to do so, I can confidently reach for my "No Harm Done" rubber stamp. Some content is commercially unavailable because the publisher or distributor has no desire to ever release it. Iíll even go so far as to say that downloading it illegally is a positive thing; youíre helping to keep this creative work alive."
So in this context of old arcade "abandonware", where the publishers for a myriad of reasons don't make them available in any form, including many cases of them having gone out of business and the rights being unclear or copyright has passed to some company who isn't interested in publishing it, what IS the harm? Where is the crime? Who's being disadvantaged? Has anyone missed out on sales as a result? Clearly the answer is a resounding "no" where the game is no longer around. Is that an excuse? Possibly. A justification certainly. Can we live without those games? Of course we can. But given no-one is being deprived of anything, to quote Ihnatko, "No harm done".
And then there is the simple fact that there are a small selection of legal Roms available, like Gridlee. That alone justifies Mame's existence, irrespective of what use most people put it to. It helps to keep old classic games alive. That is the purpose of Mame: To preserve old arcade games for a time when the machines have all died as they will. Legally, if you own the cabinet, you are entitled to a backup, but realistically original cabinets are rare and expensive and generally not readily available to play anywhere, with a few exceptions. Pragmatically, people will get Roms any way they can to play as there are no other readily available way to play old arcade games. No reasonable person would argue that is immoral.
To play the Devil's Advocate, for any newer games being emulated and possibly still widely available, and I don't know if there are any, you could have a case the arcade is being disadvantaged. I do occasionally see pubs who has what appears to be Mame cabinets running a small selection of classic games. If they were in any way legit and available near you, then you could have a case for those games. But this is really stretching the argument.
As for the rest of your strained analogy with the Wii and Xbox: If you pay for the Wii game, and you could somehow plug it into a conversion unit which allows you to play it on the XBox, that is entirely justifiable, irrespective of what the actual terms say. If it involves ripping the game onto a hard drive and running an emulator on the XBox, that is not legal, but arguably justifiable if you actually paid for the game. If you then extend that to old N64 and SNES games, whose consoles are not available anymore, provided you own the games themselves, then that is certainly justifiable as it meet the no-disadvantage test. If you now assume people instead download games for old defunct consoles no longer sold new anywhere, but might be available 2nd-hand and whose cartridges or CDs might be found secondhand on ebay or elsewhere, you can argue moral ambiguity, as the game company, in this case Nintendo, is very much around and might possibly make the games available and sometimes do as a port to something like their handheld devices.
Whereas classic game enthusiasts certainly aren't entitled to any of this unless they physically own the game, in most cases it is justifiable irrespective of the label you choose to put on it, like Theft or Copying, since they are no longer available and most will never be. Moreover, there is a big difference between Legal and Moral. Whether it is legal to download a copyrighted work and whether it is moral are two separate questions. Let's not get into a debate about the efficacy of the Copyright Act, but in its present form with the Disney extensions it is not well respected and it is entirely possible for people to breach it wantonly and repeatedly without any moral scruples whatsoever and indeed be justified in doing so.

el-John-o
Jan 28, 2013, 01:18 PM
How long does the ATV3 have to be unjailbroken before you give up?[COLOR="#808080"]



So? One device is not jailbroken out of over 20 Apple devices?

Also, MuscleNerd announced today that they think they have a way to jailbreak the ATV3. They also said that iOS6.1B5 was untethered Jailbroken and were just waiting for it to be a public release (they predicted this would be it btw, without a Golden Master, because of the way it signs). So, today is public release of iOS 6.1, which means, according to them, we'll have an untethered Jailbreak available for all iPhone, iPod, and iPad devices that run iOS 6/6.1 here in the next couple of days.

They are working on the ATV3, but even if they never do, it's hard to call it DEAD based on that! For crying out loud, that's like saying Apple, the second most valuable company on the planet, is dead because they haven't updated the iPod Classic or Mac Pro in a while..

damir00
Jan 28, 2013, 02:09 PM
"I can't/wasn't going to buy it anyway" and "But I don't pirate everything" are classic pirate justifications.


Have Android, will Emu - I feel no need whatsoever to "justify" - if you're not comfortable doing it, then you shouldn't, if you want to consider me an amoral or immoral <insert label>, go for it.

Obladi oblada.

Frankly, the bigger issue for the industry should be why these old, slow, comparatively low-tech games still find such a compelling audience.

Pakaku
Jan 28, 2013, 04:29 PM
It's not Apple's fault that you can't. It's Nintendo's. They don't want to release that game for a platform they're not selling hardware for.

Technically, Pokemon is a Game Freak IP. It doesn't belong to Nintendo. Pokemon Rumble and an official (in Japan) Pokedex have both appeared on the iOS App Store, both made by Game Freak.

I don't expect any of Nintendo's own IPs (Mario, Zelda, etc) to come out on the App Store anytime soon, though.

bboyredcel
Jan 28, 2013, 04:34 PM
Has anyone tried loading NAOMI or CPS2/3 ROMS into this? Fighting games like Capcom Vs SNK Pro, Marvel Vs. Capcom 1/2, Street Fighter 3, Street Fighter Alpha (ZERO)??

I tried loading Street Fighter 3 into iMAME when it came out, it wouldnt even recognize the game. Just wondering if anyone has attempted to load games more advanced than ms pacman or donkey kong into one if these... Thanks

bradl
Jan 28, 2013, 04:38 PM
Technically, Pokemon is a Game Freak IP. It doesn't belong to Nintendo. Pokemon Rumble and an official (in Japan) Pokedex have both appeared on the iOS App Store, both made by Game Freak.

I don't expect any of Nintendo's own IPs (Mario, Zelda, etc) to come out on the App Store anytime soon, though.

Rolling with this, this could mean that non-Nintendo IP games that were licensed by Nintendo could be fair game, such as games Konami licensed to them (Gradius, Contra), Ikari Warriors, etc.

Heh.. it just occurred to me.. in the version of Ikari Warriors that came out on Nintendo, in some of the upper levels, we actually see the first occurrences of what would be a suicide bomber (bad guy walks up to you or the tank, flashes red, and blows himself up).. Crazy that we didn't think about it then, and that was 25 years ago.

BL.

Caseynd
Jan 28, 2013, 05:03 PM
If I was the dev for i-MAME I would be very upset that my app got pulled while this one is still available :)

koban4max
Jan 28, 2013, 08:10 PM
The program is called "Gridlee" - showing up in the US iTunes store for me as of this posting.

thank you.

Pakaku
Jan 29, 2013, 03:19 AM
Rolling with this, this could mean that non-Nintendo IP games that were licensed by Nintendo could be fair game, such as games Konami licensed to them (Gradius, Contra), Ikari Warriors, etc.

Yeah, if they're not first-party developers, it's totally up to their discretion where to release their games. Konami released a Contra game in China in response to how much the game was being pirated. Nintendo could release something like Mario on the store if they wanted to, but most likely won't, since they have their own hardware to develop for.

RotaryP7
Jan 29, 2013, 07:46 AM
It's just like iMAME but updated with a new software to run newer games. It's possible to play Super Mario Bros 1-3 on this. Which is great. I already downloaded the app. I'll probably add roms later. My iMAME has like 20 roms.

starwa314
Jan 29, 2013, 10:17 AM
Technically, Pokemon is a Game Freak IP. It doesn't belong to Nintendo.

That is incorrect. While the games are developed by Game Freak, the Pokemon franchise is owned by Nintendo.

Edit: In fact, the official Pokedex for iOS app wasn't developed by Game Freak. It was developed by Creatures Inc., which is a subsidiary of Nintendo. The app is listed under the Pokemon Company brand, owned by Nintendo.

phillipduran
Jan 29, 2013, 10:40 AM
This is pretty cool. I cant get enough of Galaga. :D

bboyredcel
Jan 29, 2013, 06:39 PM
Its saying that its missing chd files for marvel vs capcom, and sf3. Both are functional roms that i play all of the time so i guess CPS2 and CPS3 are not supported. :(

kylera
Jan 29, 2013, 10:20 PM
Its saying that its missing chd files for marvel vs capcom, and sf3. Both are functional roms that i play all of the time so i guess CPS2 and CPS3 are not supported. :(

CPS2 is definitely supported. I got Dungeons and Dragons running.

bboyredcel
Jan 29, 2013, 11:05 PM
CPS2 is definitely supported. I got Dungeons and Dragons running.

you're absolutely correct. my bad.

I have loaded a bunch of CPS-2 Games. Infact, i wonder why MVC1 doesnt work because XMvSF does, as does Vampire Savior 2 (Darkstalkers 3).

Screenshot (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_ap-xrOkgX6RlV5WG5YSWU5RUE/edit)

I cannot, however, get any CPS-3 games to run.

Albright
Jan 30, 2013, 06:49 AM
If it's justified, it isn't theft. If it's theft, it isn't justified. The two terms must complement each other to make sense.
That said, the original purpose of copyright was to protect ownership for a few years - less time than it takes most "abandonware" to warrant the label.

Pirates justify their theft all the time (to themselves, at least). "Abandonware" is a perfect example. Who decides whether software is abandonware or not? Certainly not the parties who hold its publishing rights; it's the pirates. I doubt very many of them actually bother to get in touch with the publishers or any other relevant parties to ensure they actually never intend to continue to market or profit their product before they rip it off.

MagnusVonMagnum
Jan 30, 2013, 07:31 PM
Pirates justify their theft all the time (to themselves, at least). "Abandonware" is a perfect example. Who decides whether software is abandonware or not? Certainly not the parties who hold its publishing rights; it's the pirates. I doubt very many of them actually bother to get in touch with the publishers or any other relevant parties to ensure they actually never intend to continue to market or profit their product before they rip it off.

And who decides what is "theft" ? The last time I checked even the laws on the books don't support YOUR use of the word "theft". Information falls under copyright law since things are copied, not stolen. True "pirating" also involves SELLING the information to make a profit off someone else's work, not just copying it, but that fact seems to have escaped the press over time as well. People like you like to throw words like "theft" around and in my opinion this only make yourself look ignorant of both the law and the concept.

Who gets to decide what copyright law is and how long it lasts? The last time I looked several large corporations like Disney have managed to lobby the thing into near infinity when it was only supposed to be used to protect a single person's ideas during their lifetime and only for things like books. Software was never included because it never existed.

Who decides now what is and is not a copyright violation? People in the pockets of these corporations? Yes, I think so or the laws would reflect their original intent. Copyrights ORIGINALLY lasted 14 years with the option of another 14 year renewal and then became public domain. Since 1978 after much lobbying, it is now the life of the author plus 70 years and shows no sign of ending there the way it's continually modified by lobbying of corporations that never die (i.e. early Disney should be public domain by now since it dates prior to 1978, but it's already been extended to 2023 for the earliest cartoons and it will never happen if Disney gets their way).

Current law also ignores both the scope and shelf life of computer technology. A book may be viable for hundreds of years but even it was limited to a time not much longer than the life of the author whereas software becomes ancient in much shorter periods of time and hence the reason old games devalue so quickly to the point where they are no longer even offered for sale because the cost to do so outweighs any sales they might make.

So please don't go around calling people thieves when you have no idea what you're talking about. People should be supported for their ideas and works, but there should also be reasonable limits on these works. Mickey Mouse should not be exempt just because a large corporation thinks it can make money on it until the end of time, for example.

Patent law is far more reasonable and ironically, it gets far more bad press due to all the insane software patents given out these days, something also never designed into the law and therefore able to be challenged in court. But by your thinking, almost every corporation on earth is guilty of theft since most of them have been accused of patent violations at some point including Apple.

toke lahti
Jan 31, 2013, 06:16 PM
Is there any cheaper alternative to iExplorer?
Their website says nothing about trial or how the trial is crippled...

EDIT: I read only pages 1 & 3, but on second page i-FunBox was mentioned several times...