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View Full Version : BusinessWeek: 'it looks as if HD DVD's days are numbered'


MacBytes
Oct 7, 2005, 02:41 PM
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Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: BusinessWeek: 'it looks as if HD DVD's days are numbered' (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20051007154151)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

mlrproducts
Oct 7, 2005, 03:29 PM
Next-generation DVDs will feature high-definition movies, extras like movie-themed computer games, and the ability to download film trailers from the Internet.


Seriously, thats where the article lost all credibility. I guess I can't download trailers right now. And why would I download the trailer if I have the movie??? WTF?

Nermal
Oct 7, 2005, 03:55 PM
It'll be interesting to see which format wins. HD-DVD is apparently cheaper to produce, plus you can make HD-DVDs in DVD Studio Pro :D

Just before anyone says something incorrect, I'd like to point out that although Apple are supporting Blu-Ray, they are also supporting HD-DVD. The Blu-Ray announcement was the most recent, and a lot of people seem to have forgotten the previous HD-DVD announcement.

AoWolf
Oct 7, 2005, 04:01 PM
There was an interesting article in business week yesterday on Microsoft not wanting to support Blu-Ray because they wanted people to have less storage so they would have to download and use a home network. In the end HD-DVD just isn't a real solution for the long term.

jholzner
Oct 7, 2005, 04:15 PM
It'll be interesting to see which format wins. HD-DVD is apparently cheaper to produce, plus you can make HD-DVDs in DVD Studio Pro :D

Just before anyone says something incorrect, I'd like to point out that although Apple are supporting Blu-Ray, they are also supporting HD-DVD. The Blu-Ray announcement was the most recent, and a lot of people seem to have forgotten the previous HD-DVD announcement.

Maybe I'm wrong but you can't burn HD-DVD with DVD Studio Pro. Apple is behind the Blu-Ray standard. You can burn HD DVDS with DVD Studio Pro but not HD-DVD. There is a differece. Once is an actual standars

From Apple's site:
"Go from native HDV to HD on DVD with no recompression from Final Cut Pro and save time by encoding HD and SD in one Compressor batch."

Notice how they say "HD on DVD" and not HD-DVD?

Can someone jump in and let me know if I've got it right?

Edit:

After more searching on Apples site they say:

"Author SD or HD DVDs with greater speed, efficiency and flexibility than ever before. Integrated, scalable H.264 encoding allows you to fit HD content on DVDs using existing drives and media. Go from native HDV to HD on DVD with no recompression from Final Cut Pro. Even create HD DVD versions from existing SD DVD projects."

So it appears you just burn HD content on a regular DVD.

nagromme
Oct 7, 2005, 04:22 PM
Seriously, thats where the article lost all credibility. I guess I can't download trailers right now. And why would I download the trailer if I have the movie??? WTF?
What do you mean? This about something Blu-Ray players can do that DVD and HD-DVD players cannot. It's NOT talking about your computer.

Blu-Ray discs can do things right on the player that you'd normally expect of a computer. The article is correct and credible.

And I'm guessing the trailers they would link to would be to UPCOMING movies, not the one on the disc :p A way around the usual situation where you play an older movie and so the trailers too are old.

AtHomeBoy_2000
Oct 7, 2005, 05:07 PM
I hope thi all goes down as the article suggests it might. I'd love to see Blue-Ray stick it up Microsofts butt!

Nermal
Oct 7, 2005, 05:11 PM
You can burn HD DVDS with DVD Studio Pro but not HD-DVD. There is a differece.

I'm sure I've seen the HD-DVD logo there, but can't find it now. If my memory isn't deceiving me, maybe the website designer used the wrong wording originally, and has now changed it. Unfortunately, archive.org doesn't have a copy of the page.

Edit: I found an Apple press release (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17fcstudio.html):

Apple® today unveiled Final Cut® Studio, the ultimate HD video production suite that features [...] DVD Studio Pro® 4, the first commercially available DVD authoring software that burns high definition DVDs to the latest HD DVD specification.

In addition, this (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17hd.html) press release says:

Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

SiliconAddict
Oct 7, 2005, 05:56 PM
What do you mean? This about something Blu-Ray players can do that DVD and HD-DVD players cannot. It's NOT talking about your computer.

Blu-Ray discs can do things right on the player that you'd normally expect of a computer. The article is correct and credible.

And I'm guessing the trailers they would link to would be to UPCOMING movies, not the one on the disc :p A way around the usual situation where you play an older movie and so the trailers too are old.


I don't want my next gen DVD player ANYWHERE near the internet. There has been a lot of talk going around that with the DRM in blu-Ray you will need to hook your player up to the net to get a key string for the player itself. I don't know the full details about it. The discussion was on arstechnica.com but I don't like it. I don't like it one bit. :(

SiliconAddict
Oct 7, 2005, 05:58 PM
I hope thi all goes down as the article suggests it might. I'd love to see Blue-Ray stick it up Microsofts butt!


Oh god. Thanks for decreasing the maturity level of MR by 5 points. :rolleyes:

The only reason why MS went with HDDVD is because of PS3 vs. XBox360. If it wasn't for that I'm 90% sure Ms would be backing BR right now.

cheekyspanky
Oct 7, 2005, 06:14 PM
Blue-Ray seems to be promising higher storage capacities than HD-DVD but from everything I've read/heard Blue-Ray isn't achieving the capacities promised at the moment.

I think it was the TWiT podcast the other week that talked about how HD-DVDs with 30GB of space were manufacturable almost immediately but Blue-Ray was only able to get up to 27GB at the moment and not the promised 50GB+.

If this is actually the case then I think HD-DVD will steal the lead, as well as the name being more of an evolution of DVD which will make more sense to the typical consumer, with all the recent awareness of HDTV.

It's also been mentioned that HD-DVD will be easier for consumers to record to (HD-DVD+R or whatever it'll be called..) with less restrictions which is a plus to some companies and a negative to many others..!

shidoshi
Oct 7, 2005, 06:36 PM
I was originally a huge supporter of Blu-Ray... but now there is the talk about HD-DVD allowing for controlled copies, while Blu-Ray may not, and that HD-DVD may have no region encoding. That second point is a BIG one for me.

The more I read, however, the more it sounds like Blu-Ray has already won. I just hope and pray that they also announce the end of regional encoding.

freiheit
Oct 7, 2005, 07:16 PM
What do you mean? This about something Blu-Ray players can do that DVD and HD-DVD players cannot. It's NOT talking about your computer.

I think the point was that ordinary run-of-the-mill DVDs have this capability right now. I've got numerous DVDs that try to install their own crappy DVD player on my PC (thankfully they don't bother trying that crap for Macs) and give links to websites to download video trailers (advertisements) and game demos (advertisements) and advertisements (advertisements). There's absolutely nothing unique about these features in either HD-DVD nor BluRay as they already exist in DVD. At least that's exactly what I was thinking when I read that line in the article.

freiheit
Oct 7, 2005, 07:18 PM
I was originally a huge supporter of Blu-Ray... but now there is the talk about HD-DVD allowing for controlled copies, while Blu-Ray may not, and that HD-DVD may have no region encoding. That second point is a BIG one for me.

No region coding my aunt fanny! The whole idea of region coding, as built into DVD by the movie industry, was to control copying and distribution. I doubt they'd give that up now in BluRay. It's too much of a cash cow for them to be able to sell the same disc to different countries for different prices and ensure that cheaper discs from other countries can't be bought on Ebay and used in areas where the native discs are more expensive.

Fender2112
Oct 7, 2005, 07:55 PM
Can we go back to VHS? Things were alot less complicated back then.

SiliconAddict
Oct 7, 2005, 07:56 PM
Blue-Ray seems to be promising higher storage capacities than HD-DVD but from everything I've read/heard Blue-Ray isn't achieving the capacities promised at the moment.

The problem is everything everyone has heard has come from the HD-DVD FUD machine. How's about the jewel from MS about a week ago that said Blu-Ray is still a long way from being released hence the reason they went with HD-DVD. And no more then a couple days later Blu-Ray had to respond to this and the did with Dell announcing they would be shipping computers with blu-ray drives in spring 2006. Along with someone else announcing a shipping date. Can't remember who though. What it boils down to is unless you hear it from the conglomerate take it with a subatomic particle of salt.

xtbfx
Oct 7, 2005, 07:59 PM
Isn't Blu-Ray backwards compatible with DVD?
I seemed to recall that, but I'm not sure.

SiliconAddict
Oct 7, 2005, 08:00 PM
The more I read, however, the more it sounds like Blu-Ray has already won. I just hope and pray that they also announce the end of regional encoding.

Don't worry. If they don't someone will hack it. It will be hacked anyways since as far as I can tell there is NO support for Linux. That is what got DVD cracked in the first place. Never underestimate the power of the nerd.

SiliconAddict
Oct 7, 2005, 08:22 PM
Isn't Blu-Ray backwards compatible with DVD?
I seemed to recall that, but I'm not sure.


Blu-ray and HD-DVD are using a shorter wavelength laser that is more of a blue-vilot laser then red so if it’s just a HD format player then NO. But its a foregone conclusion that EVERY player for the foreseeable future will bundle both red and blue lasers with their player. So in reality. Yah. It will play existing disks.

macnulty
Oct 7, 2005, 09:34 PM
Fascinating article on how quality doesn't matter. I'm not saying which is better only in the melodrama it doesn't matter.

nagromme
Oct 7, 2005, 11:41 PM
Sounds like Microsoft's opposition to Blu-Ray has at least 3 components:

1. Playstation 3 will have Blu-Ray. X-Box 360 has NO next-gen DVD at all. So MS wants to put down the PS3.

2. Blu-Ray supports Java instead of MS's proprietary (and less functional) alternative.

3. MS wants its fingers in the DRM pie.

I'm glad MS doesn't seem to be getting their way. Fingers crossed.


I don't want my next gen DVD player ANYWHERE near the internet.
Me neither. Although it's the DRM part, not Internet connectivity in general, that bothers me. With or without Internet keys, I'll be eyeing the details of the DRM carefully. (And another big "thank you" to all you movie pirates out there!)


There's absolutely nothing unique about these features in either HD-DVD nor BluRay as they already exist in DVD.
I'd welcome corrections if I'm wrong, but I think the idea with Blu-Ray's Internet and Java functionality is that you will be able to do things things WITHOUT a computer. A DVD cannot.

LethalWolfe
Oct 8, 2005, 01:40 AM
The problem is everything everyone has heard has come from the HD-DVD FUD machine.

What, you do think Blu-ray *doesn't* have a FUD machine?

Like I said in another thread, until these things actually start shipping and independent reviewers can check them all we have to go on are marketing departments that are pimping their respective products.


Lethal

SiliconAddict
Oct 8, 2005, 01:52 PM
What, you do think Blu-ray *doesn't* have a FUD machine?




And did I say BR didn't have one? Stop being so touchy.

sjk
Oct 8, 2005, 07:17 PM
And did I say BR didn't have one?Nope, but the one-sidedness of your comment could be taken to imply that.

Stop being so touchy.Stop being so defensive? :)