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View Full Version : Scope of Plots Bush Says Were Foiled Is Questioned




IJ Reilly
Oct 8, 2005, 10:34 AM
I was going to post this in the "what has he done right?" thread, but, well, you know...

WASHINGTON — In the spring of 2003, Los Angeles police officials were summoned to a briefing with the FBI-led Joint Terrorism Task Force and told that the 73-story Library Tower might have been the target of a terrorist plot similar to that of the Sept. 11 suicide hijackings.

When the plot was disclosed last year, authorities said publicly that they had viewed the claims by captured Al Qaeda chieftain Khalid Shaikh Mohammed with skepticism. They said that, at best, the alleged plot was something that had been discussed but never put into action.

By the time anybody knew about it, the threat — if there had been one — had passed, federal counter-terrorism officials said Friday.

Still, the broader idea for attacks on West Coast buildings that included the Library Tower was one of the cases President Bush was referring to when he said that three potential terrorist plots within the United States had been "disrupted" since Sept. 11, 2001. In his policy address Thursday, Bush spoke at length about terrorists and their organizations, saying that at least 10 plots had been foiled worldwide by the U.S. and its allies, including plots in the U.S.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan had said a day earlier that Bush's speech would provide "unprecedented" detail about terrorist threats, some of them never before disclosed.

However, Bush did not detail the foiled plans, and hours later, the White House released a sketchy list of "plots, casings and infiltrations" that had been disrupted or stopped by the United States and its allies since the Sept. 11 attacks. It did not explain whether any of the incidents were new or disclose how advanced the plots were, although most experts said they did not represent plans that had been put into operation.

On Friday, the White House responded to questions seeking clarification on the potential attacks by referring inquiries to the FBI or other counter-terrorism agencies. The FBI referred the questions to the White House.

"I'm not going to have more to say on those matters at this point," McClellan said.

He said the list of foiled plots had been prepared by "the intelligence community" and was released late in the day, hours after Bush's speech, because officials needed to make sure the information it contained would not jeopardize national security.

The White House acknowledged that many of the plots cited by Bush were based on previously known information. But it would not comment on whether Bush and his administration had claimed credit for thwarting terrorist plots in the United States that, in reality, had not risen to the level of a "serious" operational plot at all, as some federal counter-terrorism officials maintained.

A case in point, the U.S. counter-terrorism authorities said, is the alleged plot that included the Library Tower.

The White House said Thursday that U.S. authorities disrupted the so-called "West Coast Airliner Plot" in mid-2002, stopping terrorists from attacking "targets on the West Coast of the United States using hijacked airplanes. The plotters included at least one major operational planner involved in planning the events of 9/11."

The brief White House document offered no details about the timing of the airliner plot, or potential targets. White House officials on Friday confirmed that one of the targets referred to in the document was the Library Tower, which was renamed the US Bank Tower in 2003.

The description of the plot was based on claims made by Mohammed, who has said he was the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, during interrogations after his capture in Pakistan in March 2003. But those familiar with Mohammed's comments and the alleged plot have suggested that, at most, it was a plan that was stopped in its initial stages and was not an operational plot that had been disrupted by authorities.

In March 2004, the Los Angeles Police Department confirmed that it had been briefed on Mohammed's statements. "We were made aware of that information last spring," John Miller, then the LAPD's top anti-terrorism official, said at the time.

On Friday, Miller — now the chief spokesman for the FBI — said only that the LAPD had discussed the matter in depth with the Joint Terrorism Task Force and concluded that whatever plot that had existed in its initial stages already had been dismantled with the arrest of Al Qaeda operatives in Indonesia and elsewhere.

Federal counter-terrorism officials on Friday disclosed for the first time that during his interrogations, Mohammed said he hadn't completely abandoned the prospect of a second wave of attacks, but had turned the idea over to a trusted aide named Hambali, the chief of operations for an Al Qaeda affiliate group in South Asia, Jemaah Islamiyah.

Hambali, also known as Riduan Isamuddin, in turn is believed to have chosen several men to launch the attacks, including a pilot, and had set aside some money to pay for them, according to one senior counter-terrorism official.

Those men were soon captured, however, and the plot never progressed past the planning stages, according to several counter-terrorism officials.

"To take that and make it into a disrupted plot is just ludicrous," said one senior FBI official, who spoke on condition of anonymity in accordance with departmental guidelines.

A second U.S.-based plot on the White House list involves the case of Jose Padilla, a U.S. citizen accused by the administration of being an enemy combatant who plotted to blow up apartment buildings. Padilla was arrested in 2002 and is being held by the U.S. military. However, senior law enforcement officials who know about his case said they had not found any indication that the idea had developed into an actual plan.

The White House refused to provide additional information on a third U.S. plot on the list, which it said involved suicide airline attacks on the East Coast. Counter-terrorism officials said they were not certain what the White House referred to.

The White House list also included seven overseas plots, which have been disclosed before and appeared to have been further along than those allegedly planned for U.S. targets.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-terror8oct08,1,6176838.story

(Found in the back of the paper with the bra ads. Once again, the best part of the newspaper.)



Blue Velvet
Oct 8, 2005, 10:36 AM
What? Not more of those exaggerations?

zimv20
Oct 8, 2005, 10:54 AM
wow, with such low standards, i've probably stopped a murder by, say, being a little slow in the line at the grocery store.

i wonder how many murders i've stopped. i'll say ten. where's my medal?

IJ Reilly
Oct 8, 2005, 11:10 AM
wow, with such low standards, i've probably stopped a murder by, say, being a little slow in the line at the grocery store.

i wonder how many murders i've stopped. i'll say ten. where's my medal?

In the mail.

Dont Hurt Me
Oct 8, 2005, 11:32 AM
This Administration is an administration of Lies and Special Interests, I no longer take anything that comes out of this Whitehouse with anything more then a grain of salt..........Lets see, have a speech about Terrorism then tell everyone that terrorist want to blow up your subway then show a hookie story about how we have been saved 10 times with no facts or details?? Its all part of the Spin Machine of selling FEAR. We need a Teddy Roosevelt who said the only thing to Fear is Fear itself not a President who has over and over Sold Fear.

solvs
Oct 8, 2005, 06:34 PM
My Sister voted for Bush because he was supposed to keep us safe. I had my doubts. After our response to Katrina, I'm afraid I might be right. I hope we don't have to find out the hard way again.

joepunk
Oct 9, 2005, 01:54 AM
My Sister voted for Bush because he was supposed to keep us safe. I had my doubts. After our response to Katrina, I'm afraid I might be right. I hope we don't have to find out the hard way again.A friend of mine voted for Bush because he wanted to pick the "lesser of two evils." :rolleyes:

Xtremehkr
Oct 9, 2005, 02:38 AM
Coincidentally, the latest terror threats just happen to tie the war on terrorism to Iraq. Which would lead some to believe that our presence there is necessary.

Strange, considering that before we took the war on terrorism to Iraq, there were no acts of terrorism directed at the US coming from Iraq. I thought one explanation was that we were fighting them over there so that we would not have to fight them over here.

In one way or another, it suggests that our efforts in Iraq are not working, and may have been detrimental overall. If we have control of Iraq, how are terror threats here in the states able to originate in Iraq? Especially if they were not coming from Iraq before we invaded.

It is a risky move to try and justify our occupation of Iraq. And seems to rely entirely on the assumption that people still believe, or are willing to believe, that what Bush has done is the right strategy.

Personally, I think it is ludicrous. If they have successfully neutralized the threat of Saddam, as claimed, why are terrorist threats now emanating from Iraq?

Perhaps the situation has gotten beyond Roves ability to effectively spin the consequences of their actions.

solvs
Oct 9, 2005, 05:41 PM
In one way or another, it suggests that our efforts in Iraq are not working, and may have been detrimental overall.
Actually, I think that's what it is. It might have worked in the beginning, but the longer we're there, the more people start questioning whether it was a good idea to invade at all. After the bombing in London, people we're blaming the Iraq war, not justifying it. Same with Spain before that. If we're attacked a second time, even if it isn't a major attack, I doubt people will stand behind Bush they way they did after 9/11.

zimv20
Oct 9, 2005, 05:57 PM
link (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--nycsubway1009oct09,0,3272492.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork)


Officials: Subway threat remains uncorroborated

By MICHAEL WEISSENSTEIN
Associated Press Writer

October 9, 2005, 3:06 PM EDT

NEW YORK -- A reported plot to bomb city subways with remote-controlled explosives has not been corroborated after days of investigation, law-enforcement officials said Sunday amid an easing sense of concern about a possible attack.

Interrogations of suspects captured in Iraq Thursday and Friday after an informant's tip about bomb-laden suitcases and baby carriages have yet to yield evidence that the plot was real, three officials with knowledge of the investigation said.

"The intelligence community has been able to determine that there are very serious doubts about the credibility of this specific threat," Homeland Security Department spokesman Russ Knocke said. "This is after ongoing review and analysis."

Homeland Security officials have been skeptical about the threat since it was publicly announced on Thursday, but officials who were more assertive about the potential danger last week also appeared to be softening their assessment Sunday.

"I believe in the short term we'll have a much better sense of whether or not this has, you know, real substance to it," Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said on CNN's Late Edition.

A Homeland Security memo said earlier in the week that the attack may have been planned on or around Sunday. Two officials speaking on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation said that the threat appeared diminished but it was too early to declare it empty because evidence gathered in Iraq was not fully analyzed.

[...]

The informant who prompted the plot investigation has provided a mix of true and false information in past investigations, Kelly said on CNN. Asked whether the informant had passed a polygraph test, he replied, "That source was deemed to be, yes, believing in the information that was put forward."

[...]

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i think i smell rove.

skunk
Oct 9, 2005, 05:59 PM
i think i smell rove.I wonder how much of this valuable information was gleaned through voluntary admission.

MontyZ
Oct 9, 2005, 06:04 PM
.

zimv20
Oct 11, 2005, 01:32 PM
link (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/11/nyc.scare/index.html?%20section=cnn_topstories)


Sources: Tip on N.Y. subway threat a hoax

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Information that led to heightened security for the New York City transit system was a hoax, government sources said Tuesday.

The sources said an informant in Iraq who provided the tip had told investigators about a terrorist plot involving New York's subway system. That informant admitted he gave false information, the sources said.

On Monday, New York police said they would reduce the increased security measures put in place last week on the city's subways.

Law enforcement sources said last week the person who passed along the New York tip also gave information that prompted a military operation in Iraq, which led to the arrests of three al Qaeda suspects in Musayyib, south of Baghdad.

Government sources said the three men arrested in Iraq with suspected links to the possible plot had been interviewed and underwent lie detector tests showing they knew nothing about such a plan.

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i'd like to see a poll on how many americans still think 10 plots have been stopped.