PDA

View Full Version : Steve Wozniak Believes Apple Has Fallen 'Somewhat Behind' in Smartphones




MacRumors
Feb 7, 2013, 10:46 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/07/steve-wozniak-believes-apple-has-fallen-somewhat-behind-in-smartphones/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/02/woz_apple_1_board-250x275.jpgApple co-founder Steve Wozniak said in an interview yesterday that Apple has fallen somewhat behind in the smartphone field, allowing competitors like Samsung to catch up.

The comment was made as Wozniak spoke about the importance of brand (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wiwo.de%2Funternehmen%2Fit%2Fapple-gruender-steve-wozniak-wir-wollten-die-angst-vor-computern-nehmen-seite-all%2F7740680-all.html) (translated from the original German report (http://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/it/apple-gruender-steve-wozniak-wir-wollten-die-angst-vor-computern-nehmen-seite-all/7740680-all.html) by wiwo.de) at the Business Week Best Brand Awards.I am proud that we have such loyal fans. But this loyalty is not given, the need to have the best products is always there. Currently we are in my opinion somewhat behind with features in the smartphone business. Others have caught up. Samsung is a big competitor. But precisely because they are currently making great products.The comments were, however, made in the context of his great pride in Apple and its products. Wozniak also explained why he stands in line at Apple stores to buy new products on launch days despite remaining an employee of the company to this day.The launch of a new Apple product is for me like a big, major concert which you absolutely must attend personally. It's history. Sure, I could order online or call the store manager so that they smuggled me in the back door. But that would be nothing. No, I will have the experience like any normal customer. But one thing is certain. If Apple made lousy products, I would not be in line.Wozniak has never been shy in speaking about Apple, and while he has only very limited contact with the company today, he still draws significant attention at his appearances at events at Apple product launches. While he remains a fan of Apple and the iPhone, he has long been open to alternatives and has noted several times that he carries a number of iPhones and Android devices with him.

(Thanks, Chris! Photo from woz.org (http://www.woz.org/photos/2/8).)

Article Link: Steve Wozniak Believes Apple Has Fallen 'Somewhat Behind' in Smartphones (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/07/steve-wozniak-believes-apple-has-fallen-somewhat-behind-in-smartphones/)



JaySoul
Feb 7, 2013, 10:48 AM
Spot on.

AlvinNguyen
Feb 7, 2013, 10:51 AM
Smart man :) I'm with him there.

Solomani
Feb 7, 2013, 10:52 AM
Wozniak also explained why he stands in line at Apple stores to buy new products on launch days despite remaining an employee of the company to this day.

He's still an employee of the company to this day?

err... what is his job title? :confused:

Macman45
Feb 7, 2013, 10:53 AM
I agree as well...A friend of mine was showing off her new phone...Lumia I think, compared to my IP5 it just looks more modern and up to date...It's not going to make me jump ship, but if Woz thinks Apple are behind, then maybe things will get done....Not much point in making the comment if they don't.

kjs862
Feb 7, 2013, 10:54 AM
For some reason, I can tell I wouldn't like this guy.

tann
Feb 7, 2013, 10:56 AM
I think they have done in terms of software. Just so many small, nice features that Android phones (and Samsung phones) have. I remember when it was the other way around...

maxosx
Feb 7, 2013, 10:57 AM
Spot on.

I agree.

Nothing is forever, now we'll see if Apple responds accordingly.

I for one, hope they do.

Yet I do wonder just what they're thinking these days.

Dictating without the dictator... is a difficult feat to pull off.

OldSchoolMacGuy
Feb 7, 2013, 10:57 AM
Whats the deal with everyone taking everything Woz says as gospel? He was instrumental in creating the original Apple computers but what has he done recently? Not much other than speaking engagements. Since the original Apples, he has done very little other.

J2TheGray
Feb 7, 2013, 10:58 AM
Could not agree more...

zoonyx
Feb 7, 2013, 10:59 AM
Whats the deal with everyone taking everything Woz says as gospel? He was instrumental in creating the original Apple computers but what has he done recently? Not much other than speaking engagements. Since the original Apples, he has done very little other.

It's not that I take it as gospel - it's just that in this case, he is sadly correct.

JaySoul
Feb 7, 2013, 10:59 AM
I agree.

Nothing is forever, now we'll see if Apple responds accordingly.

I for one, hope they do.

Yet I do wonder just what they're thinking these days.

Dictating without the dictator... is a difficult feat to pull off.

Agree totally.

WillFisher
Feb 7, 2013, 10:59 AM
Unless iOS7 is something super revolutionary, I think Apple will sell the same sort of number of phones, or at least the number they sell each new generation, won't increase like it has the last few times, if that makes sense?
I love iOS, but something new has to happen, just to distinguish itself

spiderman0616
Feb 7, 2013, 11:01 AM
In some ways, he's right. There are things on other phones that aren't on the iPhone. Apple makes great products that are, in some peoples' minds, missing features that other similar products have.

HOWEVER

1) I know Woz made the Apple II back in the day and that's his pride and joy, but what significant insight does he really have into the industry these days? What has he really done for me or Apple in the last 20 years? 30 years? I think he's looking at this situation like an extremely geeky user, not an every day joe. A lot of the reason geeks like Android over the iPhone is that you can mess with it. He might be looking at it from that perspective.

2) Apple will release features when they feel it's the right time--not any sooner or later than that. Just because the tinkerers feel that something is "missing" doesn't mean that it's something most people would use.

So in general, I would like to know what Woz would like added into iOS. He always makes these sweeping comments about Apple but never gives any solutions. He's no better than your typical forum poster/troller.

jm001
Feb 7, 2013, 11:04 AM
Whats the deal with everyone taking everything Woz says as gospel? He was instrumental in creating the original Apple computers but what has he done recently? Not much other than speaking engagements. Since the original Apples, he has done very little other.

Do you have personal connections with him that you know what he is and isnt working on? Woz has never been the one to get into the spotlight and talk about upcoming projects. He may certainly be designing or helping design products (circuitry etc. ). Who knows but dont make some blanket statement that he does nothing except speaking engagements. There are many of us who dont think his word is gospel but rather he's expressing a thought many of us harbour.

paul55br
Feb 7, 2013, 11:05 AM
That is one the stupidest things Woz has ever said.

Bubba Satori
Feb 7, 2013, 11:06 AM
For some reason, I can tell I wouldn't like this guy.

Because he has an opinion about smart phones?

----------

That is one the stupidest things Woz has ever said.

Wow.

zoozx
Feb 7, 2013, 11:08 AM
gotta like Woz,

loves Apple for the products but if they are not the best he calls them on it.
Stay on you're toes apple, make the best product and i will buy it, don't expect me to buy it because it says apple on it.

BC2009
Feb 7, 2013, 11:08 AM
Certainly the competition has caught up to Apple and offered some viable alternatives. Whether or not they are better depends on your priorities.

However, when Woz speaks my first reaction is to chuckle. The guy is all over the place. This is the same guy who said he would buy Facebook stock at IPO regardless of the opening price.

It is interesting to listen to Woz, but if Apple had been under his leadership all these years it would be out of business by now. He has never quite "gotten" what the consumer wants and is willing to buy. He obsesses more about geeky technical details than anything else.

Glassed Silver
Feb 7, 2013, 11:09 AM
Thaaaaank. YOUUU!

Damn, Apple needs all the slapping in the face it can get. Seriously.

Glassed Silver:mac

Shattentor
Feb 7, 2013, 11:12 AM
Oh yeah, they indeed have fallen behind. Software even more than the hardware, iOS is just lacking innovation for years now. Android on the other hand has made some real astonishing progress, especially with Jelly Bean. iOS simply has become so boring.

I'm right now on the edge of replacing my 3GS and I never hesitated for one second that my next phone is gonna be powered by Android.

Chupa Chupa
Feb 7, 2013, 11:12 AM
This (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324445904578285743931137664.html) column in yesterday's WSJ compared Apple to the way Ford allowed its competitors to catch up with the Model T, forever eroding its marketshare dominance.

Woz isn't the first to notice Apple all but giving Android a free pass, but he might be the most influential, at least in the geek world. Apple needs to do three thing to maintain leadership:

1) totally revamp iOS, not just incrementally update it. The interface has become over simplistic and clunky at the same time. I'd like to see a way to better organize and also true multi-tasking. iOS multi-tasking is dumb, I don't care that Jobs said it was the right way. It's not.

2) Get cloud services right and also bundle a usable amount of storage, not a joke of a 5GB, with every iOS device, or at least offer 5GB per iOS device, not account. And grant customers use of the storage for two years or replacement of the device (by purchase, not warranty). If a customer doesn't want to upgrade after two years they can then pay $x for a years worth of storage.

3) Apple has long suggested iOS devices are the future, not Mac OS X. OK then, start selling them like computers with bi-annual updates rather than annual ones. Everyone else does this, it's partly what makes iOS devices look stale 9 month in and then sales dive b/c people are holding off till the next release.

camnchar
Feb 7, 2013, 11:14 AM
I'm starting to get tired of Woz's desire to be in the spotlight 24/7.

Fresh Pie
Feb 7, 2013, 11:14 AM
He's still an employee of the company to this day?

err... what is his job title? :confused:

"The Wonderful Wizard of Woz"

Seriously, I'm also confused by this. He is an employee, yet he has "only very limited contact with the company today". Huh?

SeattleMoose
Feb 7, 2013, 11:14 AM
Without being specific about what precisely is "better" or "worse" between two competitors...it comes off simply as "my Dad is better than your Dad" type drivel.

petvas
Feb 7, 2013, 11:18 AM
I think we can pretty much sum it up in this sentence: He is a nerd that never understood what it is to create a product that people love.

mduser63
Feb 7, 2013, 11:20 AM
He's still an employee of the company to this day?

err... what is his job title? :confused:

"The Wonderful Wizard of Woz"

Seriously, I'm also confused by this. He is an employee, yet he has "only very limited contact with the company today". Huh?

Woz has often stated (including in his biography, iWoz), that he remains an employee of Apple and receives a small salary. It's just a symbolic thing. He loves the company he cofounded, and never wants to leave it completely. He does not go into Apple for work, nor does he have any job responsibilities.

Intarweb
Feb 7, 2013, 11:21 AM
In some ways, he's right. There are things on other phones that aren't on the iPhone. Apple makes great products that are, in some peoples' minds, missing features that other similar products have.

HOWEVER

1) I know Woz made the Apple II back in the day and that's his pride and joy, but what significant insight does he really have into the industry these days? What has he really done for me or Apple in the last 20 years? 30 years? I think he's looking at this situation like an extremely geeky user, not an every day joe. A lot of the reason geeks like Android over the iPhone is that you can mess with it. He might be looking at it from that perspective.

The difference is he actually uses other products and tries them out and is able to compare in the real world through actual usage whereas someone like you probably only uses one product and may try another for a couple minutes in passing at a store or touch a friends.

QCassidy352
Feb 7, 2013, 11:21 AM
What he said was "in features." Fallen behind *in features.* which we all know - apple has never been one to cram every single feature into a product just to say they have it.

Fallen behind in user experience would be a very different thing, and is not what he said.

mduser63
Feb 7, 2013, 11:22 AM
I think we can pretty much sum it up in this sentence: He is a nerd that never understood what it is to create a product that people love.

You realize you're talking about the guy who almost single handedly created the Apple I and the hugely successful Apple II, right? That's not to discount the contribution of Steve Jobs and others which were absolutely instrumental in Apple's success as a company, but Woz personally designed both of those products, and people very much loved (and still love) them.

Prof.
Feb 7, 2013, 11:25 AM
No ****.

stuffradio
Feb 7, 2013, 11:28 AM
He's still an employee of the company to this day?

err... what is his job title? :confused:

The Woz.

----------

For some reason, I can tell I wouldn't like this guy.

Because he doesn't blindly like products just because the company he was heavily involved with in the 80's made them?

rdej47
Feb 7, 2013, 11:28 AM
I think this year will be a good indicator for Apple's future. If you think about it last year was pretty much house cleaning with the management shakeup. This will be the year where you will see if those management changes are going to really make a difference.

As far as hardware goes I don't know what people can possibly expect from upcoming tablets and phones. Apple set a major standard when they released the iPhone and the hardware has started to reach a saturation point (the form factor won't drastically change, it can only get a bigger screen, thinner design etc.) This applies to all the companies. Basically what i'm saying is don't expect to be blown away by the hardware like when the iPhone first came out or when the iPhone 4 released.

The innovation for Apple is going to rely heavily on the software and iCloud integration. Which is why people should really wait for iOS 7 before writing off Apple for good. I really don't know what a iOS designed by Jony would look like but i'm definitely excited. Hopefully this will also see the end presentations being focused around Siri being able dictate a post to Facebook or Twitter. That is the most useless feature i've ever seen.

Karma*Police
Feb 7, 2013, 11:30 AM
Sorry Woz, I like you and all, but you've lost your credibility, even before you said that Win Mobile was the best phone and that Metro was amazing.

avanpelt
Feb 7, 2013, 11:31 AM
2) Apple will release features when they feel it's the right time--not any sooner or later than that. Just because the tinkerers feel that something is "missing" doesn't mean that it's something most people would use.

I used to think the same thing. Then Apple released Maps. I hope Maps was a temporary lapse in judgement instead of the beginning of a trend. Actually, I've noticed the same kind of half-baked releases of Passbook and Siri, as well.

Up until the release of Siri, Passbook, and Maps, I could legitimately say that Apple would let new features "simmer" in Cupertino for a year or so while other companies rushed those same features to the market even though they were largely subpar experiences. Then, Apple would release their take on the same thing and completely blow the competition out of the water. I want Apple to do that again; but Maps, Passbook, and Siri haven't exactly blown the competition away.

I, and I suspect many others, would benefit from being able to set default apps for e-mail, web browsing, navigation, etc. This ability needs to come in iOS 7. What's the point of having the biggest and best App Store on the planet if users can't download the apps they want and set those apps as system defaults instead of being chained to Apple's own apps?

All this wasn't really directed toward you. I'm just thinking out loud.

TMar
Feb 7, 2013, 11:31 AM
Please remove a couple of 'at's' from that last long run-on sentence/paragraph.

jonnysods
Feb 7, 2013, 11:32 AM
Appreciate his honesty

Jugney
Feb 7, 2013, 11:32 AM
It's interesting. Woz aside, the trend he is talking about makes me think back to the mid-90's, when Apple had a similar dilemma with Windows. After 10 years, Windows had caught up to the Mac, and the Mac OS looked dated and behind the times. After a lot of searching, Apple finally acquired NeXT for their operating system (and Steve Jobs) and a few years later we had OS X, which was yet another revolution in its time. (Watch the keynote where Jobs unveils all the UI changes if you haven't already - it's fascinating).

It's interesting to think that a point might be coming where this could happen for iOS.

Of course, this is a different situation. Apple is more in Microsoft's position when it comes to being more embedded in enterprise, government, etc. SO many organizations use iPads now, and have just trained people within the last few years, that Apple doesn'tt have the freedom to radically change the OS.

As much as we techy consumers (Woz included) would love to see change and to be wowed by Apple again with something completely new, organizations need consistency. Radical change doesn't seem like the right decision at this point in time.

And if you just look at the current iPhone on its own merits and how it works in day-to-day use, without comparing it to the previous gen iPhone, it's an excellent phone. It's excellent because the original was excellent, and they don't have to change a lot between versions, other than bringing their hardware up to date.

shenfrey
Feb 7, 2013, 11:36 AM
Behind or not, the iPhone. 5 is an amazing device.

ThunderSkunk
Feb 7, 2013, 11:50 AM
Phones are outdated in general.

asiga
Feb 7, 2013, 11:52 AM
Failure in the smartphone/tablet market would be good for us people who enjoy good Apple products. It's the only means for getting really good new products from Apple. OTOH, if they can keep continuous success in this market, we'll continue to see the same products we've been getting from Apple for the last 5 years.

So, I'd like that Woz is right here, because I'm a fan of good Apple products, and not a fan of everything that has the Apple logo on it.

nuckinfutz
Feb 7, 2013, 11:52 AM
It's interesting. Woz aside, the trend he is talking about makes me think back to the mid-90's, when Apple had a similar dilemma with Windows. After 10 years, Windows had caught up to the Mac, and the Mac OS looked dated and behind the times. After a lot of searching, Apple finally acquired NeXT for their operating system (and Steve Jobs) and a few years later we had OS X, which was yet another revolution in its time. (Watch the keynote where Jobs unveils all the UI changes if you haven't already - it's fascinating).

It's interesting to think that a point might be coming where this could happen for iOS.

Of course, this is a different situation. Apple is more in Microsoft's position when it comes to being more embedded in enterprise, government, etc. SO many organizations use iPads now, and have just trained people within the last few years, that Apple doesn'tt have the freedom to radically change the OS.

As much as we techy consumers (Woz included) would love to see change and to be wowed by Apple again with something completely new, organizations need consistency. Radical change doesn't seem like the right decision at this point in time.

And if you just look at the current iPhone on its own merits and how it works in day-to-day use, without comparing it to the previous gen iPhone, it's an excellent phone. It's excellent because the original was excellent, and they don't have to change a lot between versions, other than bringing their hardware up to date.

Those of us who were old enough to understand computers know that it's a fallacy to bring up Windows versus the Mac as some historical event in which Apple's colossal blunder that had gotten it overtaken.

Here are are facts

Apple dominant computing platform even in the late 80's was the Apple II and Apple III. The Mac never attained the 20% and more marketshare. DOS was the dominate platform and Microsoft was making money hand over fist with it. With Windows they merely had to emulate the GUI of the Mac to a lesser degree as a shell over DOS. By version 3.1 they had something most consumers could utilize.

Contrast that today with the iPhone which commands 20% marketshare worldwide and 50% in USA. We're also talking numeric numbers than make the PC sales of 30 years ago pale in comparison.

To knock Apple off its perch today is going to take a very significant sea change. Samsung isn't going to do it so long as they are hawking the same Android OS that everyone is.

Apple really isn't behind in mobile. Where they need work on immediately is in their services.

TennisandMusic
Feb 7, 2013, 11:57 AM
Man all you guys insisting Woz is wrong and that Apple is still the best at "user experience" or not behind in mobile, seriously have your head in the sand.

My Nexus 4 begs to differ with everything you said. Android 4.2 makes iOS look ridiculously bad. I have no desire to go back, which is why I sold my iPhone 5, and not a day goes by that I actually miss it. My GF also made the switch from the iPhone 5 to Galaxy S3 and after a few days she told me "iPhone seems like it's for idiots" and she is not even a tech person! She was afraid to try something else initially as well. Well after she had the "user experience" of Jelly Bean, it was all over for iOS.

So yeah, people still thinking that Apple is doing a good job in this space have to wake up and smell the coffee. They aren't.

OldSchoolMacGuy
Feb 7, 2013, 11:58 AM
Do you have personal connections with him that you know what he is and isnt working on? Woz has never been the one to get into the spotlight and talk about upcoming projects. He may certainly be designing or helping design products (circuitry etc. ). Who knows but dont make some blanket statement that he does nothing except speaking engagements. There are many of us who dont think his word is gospel but rather he's expressing a thought many of us harbour.

From what I know from people that work at Apple and work in the electronics and computer industry, he doesn't do much other other speaking engagements at this point. Friend was a member of his Segway polo league and also said he doesn't do much these days other than some consulting occasionally.

The Bulge
Feb 7, 2013, 12:02 PM
He has an ******* err i mean opinion.

WhoDaKat
Feb 7, 2013, 12:03 PM
So Woz, has Apple fallen behind or have they allowed competition to catch up? If I'm running a race and I'm ahead and then a competitor catches up to me, I'm not behind him am I? Which way is it? Is Apple behind, or have other companies just caught up with them? Maybe I'm just a simpleton but you can't reinvent the wheel every 12 months. Hell you can't even do it every few years. Of course competitors will copy and catch up, they are building phones after all.

And beyond that, I hear how Apple has fallen behind the competition and how they have failed to innovate, but no one ever gives any examples. They just say they are behind... in what? Do Samsung phones call people the iPhone won't? Last time I checked these phones roughly do the same thing. Is the new SIV going to be innovative? Bigger screen, faster processor, better camera... sound familiar? Yet if thats an Apple upgrade they have failed. If its a Samsung update its freaking the greatest thing since sliced bread. There is clearly a double standard here for Apple. But thats ok, they aren't going under any time soon, so even if I'm the last guy on earth with an iPhone, I'll still have a superior product.

nuckinfutz
Feb 7, 2013, 12:11 PM
Man all you guys insisting Woz is wrong and that Apple is still the best at "user experience" or not behind in mobile, seriously have your head in the sand.

My Nexus 4 begs to differ with everything you said. Android 4.2 makes iOS look ridiculously bad. I have no desire to go back, which is why I sold my iPhone 5, and not a day goes by that I actually miss it. My GF also made the switch from the iPhone 5 to Galaxy S3 and after a few days she told me "iPhone seems like it's for idiots" and she is not even a tech person! She was afraid to try something else initially as well. Well after she had the "user experience" of Jelly Bean, it was all over for iOS.

So yeah, people still thinking that Apple is doing a good job in this space have to wake up and smell the coffee. They aren't.

That's ok because I've never read one thing from you that made me want to follow anything you do. I don't care what phone you or your GF uses. Maybe the two of you would be better suited on some Android boards where you can leave us "idiots" in peace.

AlphaVictor87
Feb 7, 2013, 12:14 PM
Unless iOS7 is something super revolutionary, I think Apple will sell the same sort of number of phones, or at least the number they sell each new generation, won't increase like it has the last few times, if that makes sense?
I love iOS, but something new has to happen, just to distinguish itself

This is exactly what i've been thinking. I think they will for sure gain new customers but i also think that they will lose people that have had iPhones for a long time and in recent years getting bored with iOS.

Not to say iOS should be entertaining, but there are some definite features that are missing that would be great to have and are currently on other OS's.

I for one am one of those people who will be leaving if iOS 7 doesn't blow me away with something great.

Mabus51
Feb 7, 2013, 12:18 PM
Oh yeah, they indeed have fallen behind. Software even more than the hardware, iOS is just lacking innovation for years now. Android on the other hand has made some real astonishing progress, especially with Jelly Bean. iOS simply has become so boring.

I'm right now on the edge of replacing my 3GS and I never hesitated for one second that my next phone is gonna be powered by Android.

You're on a 4 year old phone and you complain Apple has fallen behind compared to newer phone :confused:

I do agree there are some small software & aesthetic improvements that can be done to iOS but as far as hardware they are fine.

nuckinfutz
Feb 7, 2013, 12:22 PM
This is exactly what i've been thinking. I think they will for sure gain new customers but i also think that they will lose people that have had iPhones for a long time and in recent years getting bored with iOS.

Not to say iOS should be entertaining, but there are some definite features that are missing that would be great to have and are currently on other OS's.

I for one am one of those people who will be leaving if iOS 7 doesn't blow me away with something great.

People have been saying this for the last 3 years. None of us individuals matter. iOS 7 doesn't have to be revolutionary. The biggest growth market is China and other smaller but emerging markets.

If you're bored with iOS 6 now you may as jump. There is nothing coming that is going to amaze you if you're not already pushing the limits of what the OS can do.

MEGrubb
Feb 7, 2013, 12:24 PM
Oh yeah, they indeed have fallen behind. Software even more than the hardware, iOS is just lacking innovation for years now. Android on the other hand has made some real astonishing progress, especially with Jelly Bean. iOS simply has become so boring.

I'm right now on the edge of replacing my 3GS and I never hesitated for one second that my next phone is gonna be powered by Android.

Considering you're using a 3GS, I don't think you're able to comment on the state of mobile iOS devices. You're using technology that is 4 years old. If you were complaining about your iPhone 5, then I would take your comment more seriously.

nuckinfutz
Feb 7, 2013, 12:31 PM
You're on a 4 year old phone and you complain Apple has fallen behind compared to newer phone :confused:

I do agree there are some small software & aesthetic improvements that can be done to iOS but as far as hardware they are fine.

Ever notice how most of the people raving about Jelly Bean have no clue about it. If pressed you find out quickly their depth of knowledge is pretty shallow.

Icaras
Feb 7, 2013, 12:37 PM
Man all you guys insisting Woz is wrong and that Apple is still the best at "user experience" or not behind in mobile, seriously have your head in the sand.

My Nexus 4 begs to differ with everything you said. Android 4.2 makes iOS look ridiculously bad. I have no desire to go back, which is why I sold my iPhone 5, and not a day goes by that I actually miss it. My GF also made the switch from the iPhone 5 to Galaxy S3 and after a few days she told me "iPhone seems like it's for idiots" and she is not even a tech person! She was afraid to try something else initially as well. Well after she had the "user experience" of Jelly Bean, it was all over for iOS.

So yeah, people still thinking that Apple is doing a good job in this space have to wake up and smell the coffee. They aren't.

I think Apple is doing a great job, and in fact I'm sipping my coffee as we speak.

But honestly, you're forgetting one major feature in the tech world here, and that's ecosystems and stickiness. I love the ecosystem that Apple offers and still believe that it's the strongest one. I've happily invested much in iTunes and the Mac App Store and the way I can access all of this on any of my iOS devices, my Macs, and my Apple TV is something that will keep me supporting Apple for years to come.

Just because Android may feature "a little bit more" functionality than iOS right now, certainly doesn't mean a user needs to jump ship. I simply can't wait to see what Jony will come up with in either iOS7 or iOS8. There's much to look forward to for iOS.

Mabus51
Feb 7, 2013, 12:47 PM
Ever notice how most of the people raving about Jelly Bean have no clue about it. If pressed you find out quickly their depth of knowledge is pretty shallow.

Oh I notice:D I have one sitting on my desk here at work. Jelly Bean is nice and clean looking. But still cumbersome to deal with in my opinion.

I have a user who brought his Galaxy III phone to me and every time it is rebooted it wipes out the data? All contacts, settings, emails, apps, everything gone. This thing is a week old according to my user and nothing was done to it other than he added contacts and setup his email. It's things like this that keep Apple ahead. Believe me I understand this isn't the normal activity and is probably bad hardware. But going through "Settings" on a Droid is annoying enough for me to stay away.

BornAgainMac
Feb 7, 2013, 12:48 PM
You mean Apple hasn't fired him yet?

WillFisher
Feb 7, 2013, 12:48 PM
This is exactly what i've been thinking. I think they will for sure gain new customers but i also think that they will lose people that have had iPhones for a long time and in recent years getting bored with iOS.

Not to say iOS should be entertaining, but there are some definite features that are missing that would be great to have and are currently on other OS's.

I for one am one of those people who will be leaving if iOS 7 doesn't blow me away with something great.

Exactly what I wanted to write but couldn't because I'm a terrible writer.
Hah

live4mark
Feb 7, 2013, 12:49 PM
Man all you guys insisting Woz is wrong and that Apple is still the best at "user experience" or not behind in mobile, seriously have your head in the sand.

My Nexus 4 begs to differ with everything you said. Android 4.2 makes iOS look ridiculously bad. I have no desire to go back, which is why I sold my iPhone 5, and not a day goes by that I actually miss it. My GF also made the switch from the iPhone 5 to Galaxy S3 and after a few days she told me "iPhone seems like it's for idiots" and she is not even a tech person! She was afraid to try something else initially as well. Well after she had the "user experience" of Jelly Bean, it was all over for iOS.

I'm genuinely curious about your feelings re: the user experience for iOS as compared to Jelly Bean. You are a consumer of both platforms while I am solely familiar with iOS products. What about Jelly Bean makes it so superior to iOS? What does an Android phone do that makes it so much better than an iPhone? Please give concrete examples.

b11051973
Feb 7, 2013, 12:55 PM
I agree Apple needs to do something. We had the 4 and then barely different 4S. I was hoping for a revolution, but all we got was the iPhone 5. It is a great phone, but Samsung is making great phones. I'd really like a bigger phone and hearing about a 5" Galaxy S IV has me drooling. If I have to sit through the iPhone 5 and 5S and then maybe get a 5" screen on the iPhone 6. :mad:

jon3543
Feb 7, 2013, 12:59 PM
So in general, I would like to know what Woz would like added into iOS. He always makes these sweeping comments about Apple but never gives any solutions. He's no better than your typical forum poster/troller.

Well, he does have more money. And he's been on Dancing With The Stars. So there's that.

512ke
Feb 7, 2013, 01:01 PM
What the hell do we expect from our freaking phones?

I want a phone that has a digital printer and spits out chocolates. Any phone that can't do that, has fallen behind in the race.

Hurry up and make me a new set of features so I can throw away my perfectly good phone I have in the pile of obsolete stuff that's only 2 years old.

Meh.

jon3543
Feb 7, 2013, 01:05 PM
You realize you're talking about the guy who almost single handedly created the Apple I and the hugely successful Apple II, right? That's not to discount the contribution of Steve Jobs and others which were absolutely instrumental in Apple's success as a company, but Woz personally designed both of those products, and people very much loved (and still love) them.

That was 35 years ago. Wozniak hasn't done anything with any relevance to Apple or much else since then.

jamesnajera
Feb 7, 2013, 01:09 PM
I think he's looking at this situation like an extremely geeky user, not an every day joe.

I do not know Woz, but I think this part of your quote may be correct.

I think Apple wants to:
-maintain ease of use
-support the latest technology that makes sense
-maintain a secure environment
-provide the best experience for the customer

That is a hard balancing act, but I do believe they are doing it the best for now.

Mabus51
Feb 7, 2013, 01:13 PM
What the hell do we expect from our freaking phones?

I want a phone that has a digital printer and spits out chocolates. Any phone that can't do that, has fallen behind in the race.

Hurry up and make me a new set of features so I can throw away my perfectly good phone I have in the pile of obsolete stuff that's only 2 years old.

Meh.

I'm just as baffled as you are :D but if it spit out chocolate when you pressed the home button people would then complain Apple gave them diabetes. lol

All I ask is don't make the iPhone out of plastic again... If I'm spending more than $100 on a phone it better feel like it's $100+ in quality. Plastic like most of the competitors out there is just awful and cheap. Or worse yet plastic with a fiber graphite sticker so you don't think it's plastic. that is just pathetic :cough Samsung cough:

madKIR
Feb 7, 2013, 01:18 PM
2 words: attention whore

jamesnajera
Feb 7, 2013, 01:21 PM
All I ask is don't make the iPhone out of plastic again... If I'm spending more than $100 on a phone it better feel like it's $100+ in quality. Plastic like most of the competitors out there is just awful and cheap. Or worse yet plastic with a fiber graphite sticker so you don't think it's plastic. that is just pathetic :cough Samsung cough:

I wonder if they are going to use liquid metal for the cheaper iPhones?

cassiar
Feb 7, 2013, 01:24 PM
Oh yeah, they indeed have fallen behind. Software even more than the hardware, iOS is just lacking innovation for years now. Android on the other hand has made some real astonishing progress, especially with Jelly Bean. iOS simply has become so boring.

I'm right now on the edge of replacing my 3GS and I never hesitated for one second that my next phone is gonna be powered by Android.

Wait, you are using a non-retina 3GS and you are claiming apple hasn't had innovative features for iOS in the last several years? That is feels boring and dated? I think you need to try using the 5...

vvebsta
Feb 7, 2013, 01:29 PM
Wouldn't it be fantastic if in this next keynote Cook got up on stage and said "This year is all about our core customers. We've listened to all your feedback and will be rolling out all the most requested features. We've upper our game for prosumers, we'll be refreshing pro level machines and software updates more frequently. Customer feedback will be implemented into all our products more quickly. We've made it incredibly easy for the average consumer to learn and engage with our iOS and OSX devices now its time to pack it full of the goodies pros have been waiting for and consumers will never see or be bothered with! Thanks for coming lets get to the good stuff..." Something like that :) instant increase in sales and fan loyalty! IMO

turtlez
Feb 7, 2013, 01:44 PM
Features is one thing, looks is another :P

tom53092
Feb 7, 2013, 01:44 PM
Ever notice how most of the people raving about Jelly Bean have no clue about it. If pressed you find out quickly their depth of knowledge is pretty shallow.

Easily overlooked by iPhone customers, who take this for granted: how many days do you wait for the next OS update to be "ported" to your phone?

Android phone: months to never
iPhone: hint - it's less than 1.

turtlez
Feb 7, 2013, 01:47 PM
I agree Apple needs to do something. We had the 4 and then barely different 4S. I was hoping for a revolution, but all we got was the iPhone 5. It is a great phone, but Samsung is making great phones. I'd really like a bigger phone and hearing about a 5" Galaxy S IV has me drooling. If I have to sit through the iPhone 5 and 5S and then maybe get a 5" screen on the iPhone 6. :mad:

you should just get an android tablet

----------

Easily overlooked by iPhone customers, who take this for granted: how many days do you wait for the next OS update to be "ported" to your phone?

Android phone: months to never
iPhone: hint - it's less than 1.

less than 1 hey? Source?

igorleandro
Feb 7, 2013, 01:53 PM
Steve Wozniak, the irrelevant guy who keeps calling the media attention so someone will not forget him.

What is his relevance to ANYTHING today?

So sick of his "comments and insights"...

uknowimright
Feb 7, 2013, 01:53 PM
lol at the people reacting as if they had just been stabbed in the back

Mabus51
Feb 7, 2013, 02:06 PM
less than 1 hey? Source?

Source really :confused: it's a known fact. When Apple updates iOS it goes out to all iPhones instantly on all carriers. It's up to the user to press the Update button.

When Google updates Android it goes out to the manufactures. Most of the time the manufacture holds the update back and uses it drive hardware sales. So you end up waiting for months to get it if ever. Or you buy a new Droid with the update preinstalled.

Razeus
Feb 7, 2013, 02:13 PM
Apple needs to hit iOS 7 out of the park. Especially if Samsung goes to town with the S4 in a couple of months. ...and my Contract is up in May, so I'll have some serious decisions to make to stick with Apple or not.

spiderman0616
Feb 7, 2013, 02:42 PM
The difference is he actually uses other products and tries them out and is able to compare in the real world through actual usage whereas someone like you probably only uses one product and may try another for a couple minutes in passing at a store or touch a friends.

No--I have tried Android quite a bit, both newer versions and older versions. I find it to be buggy, hard to use, and just plain ghetto in some spots. iOS is a much more polished system. Does it lack some of the more advanced features that Android has? Sure it does. But Apple will include that stuff when they find a user friendly way to do it.

----------

I used to think the same thing. Then Apple released Maps. I hope Maps was a temporary lapse in judgement instead of the beginning of a trend. Actually, I've noticed the same kind of half-baked releases of Passbook and Siri, as well.

Up until the release of Siri, Passbook, and Maps, I could legitimately say that Apple would let new features "simmer" in Cupertino for a year or so while other companies rushed those same features to the market even though they were largely subpar experiences. Then, Apple would release their take on the same thing and completely blow the competition out of the water. I want Apple to do that again; but Maps, Passbook, and Siri haven't exactly blown the competition away.

I, and I suspect many others, would benefit from being able to set default apps for e-mail, web browsing, navigation, etc. This ability needs to come in iOS 7. What's the point of having the biggest and best App Store on the planet if users can't download the apps they want and set those apps as system defaults instead of being chained to Apple's own apps?

All this wasn't really directed toward you. I'm just thinking out loud.

I totally agree with you. I do often remind myself though that not everything under Steve Jobs worked amazingly right out of the gate either. I disagree with you on Siri--I think it has become a household name at this point, but Maps and Passbook I thought would be a bigger deal by now. With Maps, well, we all know what happened with Maps. With Passbook, I think vendors just aren't compliant with any one thing as a whole yet.

I am anxious to see what iOS 7 looks like after Forstall's departure. I have to wonder if he was the one holding a lot of this stuff back. Would it be that hard to add the ability to enlarge an app icon by 4x and make it a live icon type of thing? Like a weather app taking up 4 spots instead of 1 and then showing live weather updates. It would certainly shut up the "I want my widgets!!" crowd.

----------

you should just get an android tablet

----------



less than 1 hey? Source?

Source: reality. You get iOS updates the day they come out.

Jimmy James
Feb 7, 2013, 02:43 PM
"We"?

Shattentor
Feb 7, 2013, 02:47 PM
Considering you're using a 3GS, I don't think you're able to comment on the state of mobile iOS devices. You're using technology that is 4 years old. If you were complaining about your iPhone 5, then I would take your comment more seriously.
Are you kidding me? My 3GS is running iOS 6.1 (granted, some features missing) and I happen to own an iPad Mini, which is only missing the phone app compared to an iP5.

How does not owning the newest iPhone render me unable to survey the current market situation? Blogs and Youtube are flooded with in depth reviews about every bit of mobile tech there is in this world. Also this is not about complaining about a specific device, it is about the long term development of iOS and the iPhone in general.

I just can't comprehend your logic - I don't have to jump of a building to know it'll hurt, and I don't have to own every piece of new tech to be able to judge it.

sazivad
Feb 7, 2013, 03:03 PM
Currently we are in my opinion somewhat behind with features…
All due respect to Woz, but features alone do not make a great product.

Also, there's this (http://youtu.be/kTTSsB92L_s?t=2m) for laughs.

abz1981
Feb 7, 2013, 03:04 PM
I think this dude misses being involved in the running of Apple. Wasn't he meant to be moving to australia and getting citizenship as he was sick of the USA. More and more i read about Woz, the more pro android he seems to have become. When was the last time he said anything positive about Apple. I mean if he feels that Apple has fallen behind, then why does he not share his ideas with apple at http://www.apple.com/feedback/.

FrizzleFryBen
Feb 7, 2013, 03:08 PM
Are you kidding me? My 3GS is running iOS 6.1 (granted, some features missing) and I happen to own an iPad Mini, which is only missing the phone app compared to an iP5.

How does not owning the newest iPhone render me unable to survey the current market situation? Blogs and Youtube are flooded with in depth reviews about every bit of mobile tech there is in this world. Also this is not about complaining about a specific device, it is about the long term development of iOS and the iPhone in general.

I just can't comprehend your logic - I don't have to jump of a building to know it'll hurt, and I don't have to own every piece of new tech to be able to judge it.

You tell um! Well stated BTW.

FooMan2011
Feb 7, 2013, 03:11 PM
Sad but true... Apple is truly falling behind with its phone technology. Do you agree? I mean they're releasing "upgrades" that Andriod and/or Samsung's had available for some time. For god sakes, I want a 4.8" inch screen and I should have to go to Samsung to get it...

joueboy
Feb 7, 2013, 03:15 PM
Somehow the "somewhat behind" is right, but only in some features that does not really put iOS device to shame. There is no really feature on Android that I'm crazy to have on my iPhone. They brag too much about customization buy I guess that's it, other than that they just show off those feature but they never actually used them. Some of those accessible features on Android are just 1 tap or swipe away with iOS, that's the reason why iOS UI is clean and simple. They say Android are for power users yet those people they root their devices so as iOS if you want to be a power user then jailbreak your device. The very reason why Android is ahead and their number of users is growing not because it's a better choice. The only reason which I also agree is that they have more choices and cheaper prices. There is no way Apple can beat this kind of market unless they decided to go the same path as Samsung.

charlituna
Feb 7, 2013, 03:46 PM
Whats the deal with everyone taking everything Woz says as gospel? He was instrumental in creating the original Apple computers but what has he done recently? Not much other than speaking engagements. Since the original Apples, he has done very little other.

Because he helped create Apple.

My real issue on him dumping on Apple is that he clearly doesn't agree with Apple's stance that this isn't a zero sum game and its okay for other companies to be successful. Because he doesn't get this detail he sees everything as a loss for Apple and that helps to spurn his notion that Apple has to design to compete, provide every possible choice for every possible user and so on.

----------



So in general, I would like to know what Woz would like added into iOS. He always makes these sweeping comments about Apple but never gives any solutions. He's no better than your typical forum poster/troller.

So perhaps we should say to him what we tend to say to the trolls. Put up or shut up. He thinks he knows how smart phones should be designed, then he should do it. Lets see how well the Woz phone does

----------

Do you have personal connections with him that you know what he is and isnt working on? Woz has never been the one to get into the spotlight and talk about upcoming projects. .

He might not talk about upcoming products (perhaps because he doesnt have sny) but he's happy to do talks, articles etc based on being 'the guy from Apple' so claiming eh doesn't get into the spotlight is a bit off

----------

gotta like Woz,

loves Apple for the products but if they are not the best he calls them on it.


'The best' being defined as ' how I think they should be done', rather like many forum posters

----------

Apple needs to do three thing to maintain leadership

You assume that Apple wants to maintain leadership, particularly if it means having to do things differently. With devices or computers.

And your bullet points are just the same 'they need to do it the way I think they should do it or utter fail' of the typical poster. You have nothing more than 'I think it's a good idea' or 'everyone else is doing it' to prove its a good idea, much less the right one for Apple.

----------


My Nexus 4 begs to differ with everything you said. Android 4.2 makes iOS look ridiculously bad. I have no desire to go back, which is why I sold my iPhone 5, and not a day goes by that I actually miss it.

Your opinion, you are welcome to it and goody for you that it has worked out for you.

Many folks, myself included, have used such devices and thought they were utter garbage.

gto55
Feb 7, 2013, 03:59 PM
auxo, zephir, intelliscreenx... from cydia: so many reasons to complain against apple's lack of listening to users demands.

SO A BIG

http://r23.imgfast.net/users/2313/47/87/19/smiles/739493.gif

TO

http://o.aolcdn.com/mars/9114/635/357/106951025.jpg

dvasa
Feb 7, 2013, 04:12 PM
just look at the share price
i'm an investor and held right into earnings... that was foolish with a small f

anyways, i still believe in apple and that Tim Cook will do well. he's made a massive reshuffle and the fruits from that should become evident. i have high hopes for the future UI of iOS and apple apps now that jonathan ive is in charge of that.

i guess we'll find out if apple can once again innovate and differentiate on the release of iOS 7.
iPhone is a great device, the software is behind as well as the typing features

several of the stupidest things, why can't you reply all to a calendar appointment to send everyone a note?
why can't you copy calendar events to other dates and times?
why is there no cursor control option on the keyboard or at least a shift+backspace for a forward delete... simple things like this are missing
FAIL

tech4all
Feb 7, 2013, 04:17 PM
Whats the deal with everyone taking everything Woz says as gospel? He was instrumental in creating the original Apple computers but what has he done recently? Not much other than speaking engagements. Since the original Apples, he has done very little other.

Not Gospel, but he say's the truth. Apple loyalist just get a bent out of shape when some speaks against the Big Apple that's all.

For some reason, I can tell I wouldn't like this guy.

Cause he had a critical opinion about the iPhone?

I bet if he praised it you'd love Woz eh? :D


That is one the stupidest things Woz has ever said.

http://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/October-18-2011-20-12-49-DoubleFacePalm.jpg

I'm starting to get tired of Woz's desire to be in the spotlight 24/7.

I'm tired of all the fanboys saying how much Woz sucks just because his critical opinion of the iPhone and iOS.

Behind or not, the iPhone. 5 is an amazing device.

Which means that other phones that are ahead of it are even more amazing.


I think we can pretty much sum it up in this sentence: He is a nerd that never understood what it is to create a product that people love.

Loving the iPhone and iOS is a blind love for some.

Sorry Woz, I like you and all, but you've lost your credibility, even before you said that Win Mobile was the best phone and that Metro was amazing.

Yea that's why...



He has an ******* err i mean opinion.

And a smart opinion at that!

That's ok because I've never read one thing from you that made me want to follow anything you do. I don't care what phone you or your GF uses. Maybe the two of you would be better suited on some Android boards where you can leave us "idiots" in peace.

You mad bro because someone doesn't like the iPhone? It'll be better...maybe Apple will do something amazing with iOS 7 and it'll be okay. :rolleyes:

You mean Apple hasn't fired him yet?

Probably do a better job than Tim Cook is doing.

2 words: attention whore

That's the response I'd expect when you know what you read is true, but you just don't like it.

Features is one thing, looks is another :P

Being attracted to your phone...scary.

lol at the people reacting as if they had just been stabbed in the back

It's hilarious. I love the childish one liner remarks. Although I thought there would be more Apple Loyalists here. I'm surprised so many don't have their heads in the sand.

Gotta love it.

rmwebs
Feb 7, 2013, 04:20 PM
Woz is spot on. And I like it.

We all know that good competition = good innovation. Android effectively becoming more desirable is something a lot of Apple fans find hard to accept (or if they are childish, flat out deny and claim anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot). Apple need this to happen. They have rested on their laurels for too long now.

It's time for iOS to get a major overhaul.

OldSchoolMacGuy
Feb 7, 2013, 04:46 PM
Not Gospel, but he say's the truth. Apple loyalist just get a bent out of shape when some speaks against the Big Apple that's all.

I'm not talking about his Apple statements only. Anything Woz says, the tech media writes in stone and worships. A couple years back he said he was starting a company. People threw $50 million in investments at him before he ever said what it would be or what they'd produce. Nothing ever came of it but it's funny to see people that feel they should blindly agree with everything he says or does.

clibinarius
Feb 7, 2013, 05:07 PM
In some ways, he's right. There are things on other phones that aren't on the iPhone. Apple makes great products that are, in some peoples' minds, missing features that other similar products have.

HOWEVER

1) I know Woz made the Apple II back in the day and that's his pride and joy, but what significant insight does he really have into the industry these days? What has he really done for me or Apple in the last 20 years? 30 years? I think he's looking at this situation like an extremely geeky user, not an every day joe. A lot of the reason geeks like Android over the iPhone is that you can mess with it. He might be looking at it from that perspective.

2) Apple will release features when they feel it's the right time--not any sooner or later than that. Just because the tinkerers feel that something is "missing" doesn't mean that it's something most people would use.

So in general, I would like to know what Woz would like added into iOS. He always makes these sweeping comments about Apple but never gives any solutions. He's no better than your typical forum poster/troller.

When one of the founders of the company says they're falling, don't get defensive. Woz says innovate. If he knew how to innovate it at this time, he probably would. But he needed Jobs to actually be productive with it, mind you.

I agree with Woz. I have ceased recommending iPhones for anyone at this time. They're not bad, but there's certainly better out there. If Apple fans could only admit that, we'd get a real swell apple phone, don't you think? You know, the "Never enough" approach for users rather than shareholders...

0dev
Feb 7, 2013, 05:14 PM
Woz says it like it is as always. He doesn't let irrational loyalty to any certain company get in his way, even the company he helped build. He just looks at who has the best products. Gotta respect that, and in this case I agree with his judgement.

Apple OC
Feb 7, 2013, 05:23 PM
That is one the stupidest things Woz has ever said.

He would never have said this publicly if Steve was still alive.

jon3543
Feb 7, 2013, 05:27 PM
I'm not talking about his Apple statements only. Anything Woz says, the tech media writes in stone and worships. A couple years back he said he was starting a company. People threw $50 million in investments at him before he ever said what it would be or what they'd produce. Nothing ever came of it but it's funny to see people that feel they should blindly agree with everything he says or does.

Are you talking about Fusion IO? My understanding is they hired Wozniak as "Chief Scientist", whatever the heck that means. I figure the position is a sinecure, like his position at Apple, and they hired him for his notoriety as cofounder of Apple.

0dev
Feb 7, 2013, 05:41 PM
He would never have said this publicly if Steve was still alive.

He has said several similar things throughout the years while Jobs was alive. He also jailbroke a celebrity's iPhone live on TV while Jobs was still alive. Wozniak isn't Jobs' bitch you know.

linuxcooldude
Feb 7, 2013, 06:03 PM
He always makes these sweeping comments about Apple but never gives any solutions. He's no better than your typical forum poster/troller.

I think this really sums it up for the whole thread.

Woz was instrumental in the formation of Apple Computers & a very smart man, but he never took it very far past that. Hes not a businessman, hes not a visionary like Steve was.

If Woz was in charge of Apple if Steve never existed, they would be in the same boat they were in the early nineties, barely afloat.

Lot of comments but no solutions.

MyTurnQuips
Feb 7, 2013, 06:14 PM
Always fun to hear from the spiritual voice of AAPL.

nervouk
Feb 7, 2013, 06:22 PM
OK, we're past Page 4 now and I still don't know what the compelling reason is to prefer Android over the "outdated, falling behind" iOS. This thread is full of comments about Apple failing to innovate and barely any concrete examples are given.

So, apart from the fact that some Android devices have bigger screens and a couple of eye-catching animations, what is the advantage? From the Android devices I've tried, my only impression is that they're confusing & messy for a first-time user.

The iPhone and iPads still feel leaps ahead in terms of build quality and materials used; photo-shooting, and 3rd party apps. Personally I could care less if the OS is just a launcher with buttons, as long as the apps are good. These are the main reason I have an iPhone.

ceva321
Feb 7, 2013, 06:27 PM
he is absolutely right.....Apple needs to wow people again....I was not impressed with the long odd looking iphone5

linuxcooldude
Feb 7, 2013, 06:30 PM
he is absolutely right.....Apple needs to wow people again....I was not impressed with the long odd looking iphone5

So what do you feel it needs, what is it missing? Silence?

nuckinfutz
Feb 7, 2013, 06:40 PM
OK, we're past Page 4 now and I still don't know what the compelling reason is to prefer Android over the "outdated, falling behind" iOS. This thread is full of comments about Apple failing to innovate and barely any concrete examples are given.

So, apart from the fact that some Android devices have bigger screens and a couple of eye-catching animations, what is the advantage? From the Android devices I've tried, my only impression is that they're confusing & messy for a first-time user.

The iPhone and iPads still feel leaps ahead in terms of build quality and materials used; photo-shooting, and 3rd party apps. Personally I could care less if the OS is just a launcher with buttons, as long as the apps are good. These are the main reason I have an iPhone.

The funnier thing are the posts saying "Woz is spot on" "I agree with him" when he really didn't say anything.

I know what "I" want from iOS.

1. Delta updates for everything
2. Automatic updates across devices with roll back
3. Live icons
4. Less contextual changes (more Store Kit like panels popping up)
5. XPC processes between apps and better file sharing (no dupes)
6. Location based profiles
7. Siri control of basic settings (Wifi, BT, etc)
8. App Store wish-list with notifications for price changes
9. Ability to purchase iPad only apps from iPhone
10. More services in the accounts framework (LinkedIn, Foursquare, Yelp, App.net, Tumblr etc)

+

Group support in email
Smart Folders that work OS wide for tagged documents, files, Pics
Better indoor location accuracy.

nervouk
Feb 7, 2013, 07:19 PM
I know what "I" want from iOS.

1. Delta updates for everything
2. Automatic updates across devices with roll back
3. Live icons
4. Less contextual changes (more Store Kit like panels popping up)
5. XPC processes between apps and better file sharing (no dupes)
6. Location based profiles
7. Siri control of basic settings (Wifi, BT, etc)
8. App Store wish-list with notifications for price changes
9. Ability to purchase iPad only apps from iPhone
10. More services in the accounts framework (LinkedIn, Foursquare, Yelp, App.net, Tumblr etc)

+

Group support in email
Smart Folders that work OS wide for tagged documents, files, Pics
Better indoor location accuracy.

That's more like it ;)

jetlitheone
Feb 7, 2013, 07:51 PM
I agree as well...A friend of mine was showing off her new phone...Lumia I think, compared to my IP5 it just looks more modern and up to date...It's not going to make me jump ship, but if Woz thinks Apple are behind, then maybe things will get done....Not much point in making the comment if they don't.

Lmao that phone sucks

----------

And jailbreaking an iPhone pretty much fixes all this.

flameproof
Feb 7, 2013, 08:02 PM
He's still an employee of the company to this day?

err... what is his job title? :confused:

I presume: engineer

Have you read iWoz? It's all in there.

----------

He would never have said this publicly if Steve was still alive.

Wrong. Woz always spoke his mind freely.

flameproof
Feb 7, 2013, 09:02 PM
Lmao that phone sucks[COLOR="#808080"]


Mhm, offline car navigation for 110+ countries. Apple has that? All phones have strong points and weak points.

ceva321
Feb 7, 2013, 09:30 PM
So what do you feel it needs, what is it missing? Silence?

take a look at the Galaxy Note 2...... enough said

Yamcha
Feb 7, 2013, 09:42 PM
Agree, Apple is definitely falling behind.

PracticalMac
Feb 7, 2013, 10:08 PM
While I believe iStuff has a strong lead in certain metrics, I also believe it is falling behind in others.

The smartphone and tablet are now commodities, and the price of iStuff hardware is starting to be more then those willing to pay.

blackhand1001
Feb 7, 2013, 10:49 PM
Source really :confused: it's a known fact. When Apple updates iOS it goes out to all iPhones instantly on all carriers. It's up to the user to press the Update button.

When Google updates Android it goes out to the manufactures. Most of the time the manufacture holds the update back and uses it drive hardware sales. So you end up waiting for months to get it if ever. Or you buy a new Droid with the update preinstalled.

Samsung does not do that and has added tons of features to the s3, s2, and note II since launch including multiwindow and loads of other usefull features. All of these phone have been upgraded to jellybean.

Plymouthbreezer
Feb 7, 2013, 10:52 PM
Woz is pretty astute.

His observations can be spot on; he should be taken seriously!

spiderman0616
Feb 7, 2013, 11:11 PM
When one of the founders of the company says they're falling, don't get defensive. Woz says innovate. If he knew how to innovate it at this time, he probably would. But he needed Jobs to actually be productive with it, mind you.

I agree with Woz. I have ceased recommending iPhones for anyone at this time. They're not bad, but there's certainly better out there. If Apple fans could only admit that, we'd get a real swell apple phone, don't you think? You know, the "Never enough" approach for users rather than shareholders...

Well, let's not get TOO crazy here. I said I agreed with some things he said, and you are, in a way, kind of putting words in his mouth. He said he still stands in line for Apple products because they still make great products. I think that's pretty much a recommendation from Woz.

My point is that a lot of things that Android lovers (usually the more geeky users, and I mean that in a respectful way) think people would love on phones would really never get used that much. I work in the tech industry so I know a lot of computer geeks--they tend to like the customization options and the hackability of Android phones. But the standard user doesn't care about side loading apps or running CM7--they just want a cheap/free phone that can do Facebook and texting.

And another thing that kind of makes me crazy is that people make statements like this as if Google is innovating in leaps and bounds with Android. They really aren't. Android is in refinement stages now just like iOS. And that's great--Jelly Bean is probably the closest they've gotten to the smoothness of iOS, so good for them. But it's not like they're blowing our minds with new features every 10 minutes. Android is becoming a mature platform. The problem is that only a small percentage of users ever use their most recent OS, and Samsung is the only company making any money on Android, and that's including Google.

None of this has much to do with Woz's comment I guess, but I wish people would get real about what people truly want to do with their phones. I don't care if it's an iPhone or an Android phone, all I ever see *most* users doing with them is Facebook, texting, or playing games. All smartphones do these things now and they pretty much all do them well. The nerds fight over all the stuff that most users never use. A lot of people have latched on to the bigger screens because that is actually a feature they can see and use right away with no effort, and to me, that totally makes sense. THAT is the common phone user. "What can this thing do for me the second I pick it up and start using it?" That's the mindset most people have. The vocal minority of smartphone users (people that argue on forums because this is the kind of stuff they actually care about) have the mindset of, "How many hidden features and tricks does thing do that I can unlock or turn on to make it the Death Star of all phones?"

My criticism of Woz is not that he speaks his mind. My criticism is that his opinions often don't represent reality, and I think he tries to latch on to Apple sometimes as if he still works for them. I would not want him running Apple just because he created the Apple II. I certainly wouldn't mind him in some kind of creative role their, but definitely would not trust his decision making on a lot of things. I never attack people that use phones other than the iPhone (though Android users seem to verbally assault me all the time), and I honestly don't care what phone other people use. It's an argument that just as useless as talking politics and expecting the other person to change their mind if you present your case strongly enough. Completely pointless. So I really don't care what Woz thinks about the iPhone vs. Android. And that's my point I guess:

Woz hasn't worked for Apple in decades. As Apple moved on with bigger and better things, Woz insisted on continuing to work on the Apple II. Woz has never worked for any of the major players in the modern tech game. Not that that's a requirement to know what you're talking about, but his opinion on this stuff is just not something I take seriously any longer. He's irrelevant.

kot
Feb 8, 2013, 12:06 AM
Android on the other hand has made some real astonishing progress, especially with Jelly Bean. .

UI started lagging less?

mrsir2009
Feb 8, 2013, 02:12 AM
UI started lagging less?

Yep :)

stevielatphoto
Feb 8, 2013, 02:50 AM
HI Guys,

I know what you are all saying has some validity. but a few points.

1/ I have never liked companies that follow the crowd, Apple always, if somewhat, slowly pleases its customers.

2/ Woz was a genius and we have a lot to thank him for, BUT, he seems to have become the Anti-Mac, i cant remember the last good thing he said about any recent product.

3/ Although the iPhone 5 design failed to impress, i grow to love it more and more every day and as Steve famously said, "IT JUST WORKS"

4/ DONT fall for gimmicks guys, they are always short lived.

5/ and I've just sold my 19 month old pristine iphone 4 for 220 cash in hand .... can you do that with a HTC, samsung or Lumia.... I DONT THINK SO

finally

Keep the faith

AlbertEinstein
Feb 8, 2013, 03:21 AM
If anyone else but Woz said that Apple had fallen behind (in smartphones), im pretty sure that no-one would agree.:apple:

costabunny
Feb 8, 2013, 03:45 AM
Totally. While the IP5 is a great phone (design and to be honest its ease of use is great). There are a bunch of folks who want some of the more modern features.

Its about time to see another innovative leap from Apple in the phone market. They have the solid foundation and have rested upon this for a little too long (indeed allowing the competition to overtake in terms of features).

All we can do is hope that someone has similar insights as did Steve and can push the R&D guys forward in directions that can restore some of the Wow factor.

its quite the testament that despite the on paper better specs and feature sets of competitors products, the iPhone still remains very popular and indeed still has a nice easy to use OS. I give support to people of all ages and abilities and find that the majority of more mature folks find it a lot easier to use iOS than android (or recently the windows phone).

I would hate to see that slip away because of stagnation of design and innovation.

DarkKnightNine
Feb 8, 2013, 05:04 AM
You people are delusional to think Apple hasn't fallen behind as they were NEVER on par with other phones here in Japan to begin with. Woz was being political in order not to step on any toes, but the fact of the matter is, if you look at the features offered on almost any phone here in Japan, they have ALWAYS been far superior to the iPhone.

So then why do I and so many other Japanese use the iPhone? Ease of use and software integration. One thing the Japanese suck at is GUI design. Their hardware may be awesome, but software is how people interact with any device and that's where Japanese suck. When rumors of the very first iPhone began to surface, everyone thought it would be a failure here in Japan. Since I worked at a large tech company at the time and saw first hand how Japanese design their software interface, I knew the iPhone would take Japan by storm. People just want something simple and elegant and that is the iPhone's greatest strength. It is certainly not chocked full of features. Meaning no disrespect to Apple, but "thinner and lighter" although ver sexy, is NOT a useful feature. I can use my Japanese phone to ride the train, buy stuff at a convenient store or a snack machine, it connects hands-free to the audio system in my car and displays all of my contacts on my car navigation display, it has a 12 megapixel camera and so on. Those are REAL features.

So has the iPhone fallen slightly behind? In my opinion, it never caught up.

b0fh
Feb 8, 2013, 05:43 AM
Man all you guys insisting Woz is wrong and that Apple is still the best at "user experience" or not behind in mobile, seriously have your head in the sand.

My Nexus 4 begs to differ with everything you said. Android 4.2 makes iOS look ridiculously bad.

I just got a Nexus 4. Don't agree with you. It is clunky. The screen's not as sensitive, so when I type, sometimes it doesn't catch the letters at the beginning. There is no encryption that you take for granted on the iPhone. It takes 45 minutes to set up encryption during which the phone is unavailable. I've had it power off (haven't discovered why) a number of times. There's no way to disable an app from your contacts, GPS, etc if the app wants it. You can either delete the app, or let the app screw with your info. There is no way to manage it at the enterprise level, not that iPhone Configuration Utility is the best way to manage iPhones, but at least you can set an enterprise policy and enforce/update it.

So... *no*

linuxcooldude
Feb 8, 2013, 06:57 AM
take a look at the Galaxy Note 2...... enough said

Thats almost a non answer and does not really answer the question. If you want the features of a Note 2 on the iPhone, your better off buying a Note 2.

spiderman0616
Feb 8, 2013, 07:16 AM
You people are delusional to think Apple hasn't fallen behind as they were NEVER on par with other phones here in Japan to begin with. Woz was being political in order not to step on any toes, but the fact of the matter is, if you look at the features offered on almost any phone here in Japan, they have ALWAYS been far superior to the iPhone.

So then why do I and so many other Japanese use the iPhone? Ease of use and software integration. One thing the Japanese suck at is GUI design. Their hardware may be awesome, but software is how people interact with any device and that's where Japanese suck. When rumors of the very first iPhone began to surface, everyone thought it would be a failure here in Japan. Since I worked at a large tech company at the time and saw first hand how Japanese design their software interface, I knew the iPhone would take Japan by storm. People just want something simple and elegant and that is the iPhone's greatest strength. It is certainly not chocked full of features. Meaning no disrespect to Apple, but "thinner and lighter" although ver sexy, is NOT a useful feature. I can use my Japanese phone to ride the train, buy stuff at a convenient store or a snack machine, it connects hands-free to the audio system in my car and displays all of my contacts on my car navigation display, it has a 12 megapixel camera and so on. Those are REAL features.

So has the iPhone fallen slightly behind? In my opinion, it never caught up.

Other than the 12 MP camera, the iPhone 5 also can do all that stuff.

dragje
Feb 8, 2013, 08:36 AM
So in general, I would like to know what Woz would like added into iOS.

It's no secret that Woz love products that give it's users the freedom to do things with it 'they themselves' would like to do with it. This is where he criticizing Apple for, for not making products that are more open for use with third party software and hardware. In this Woz is absolutely right. I like my iPhone but I don't like the restrictions it has. Friends of mine have hacked their devices and by doing so getting tons of extra features.

I also, like Woz, don't like that Apple is trying to control all the data on your iPhone. Control? Huh? Yes, control, it's Apple who decides if your App will be approved or not. What's nudity and what's considered art? Something consumers, i.m.h.o. should decide for themselves. What's 'bad language and in what context?' is i.m.h.o. something consumers should decide for themselves as well.

And I'm not even mentioning the silly, because it's silly, patent lawsuits Apple is continuing to bring up whenever they disagree with something they see as some kind of crime because someone is making the same kind of software or hardware.

I've nothing against 'protecting' your intellectual ideas about the devises and/or software you made but there is a line called 'reason' with all of this, and this line has been crossed multiple times by now; and no, not only by Apple.

He always makes these sweeping comments about Apple but never gives any solutions. He's no better than your typical forum poster/troller.

That is a fallacy. Good criticism doesn't have to come with solutions.

Personally, good criticism is good and what's good or not is of course in the eye of the beholder but in this context I only can agree with Woz his statements. They are simply spot on, for some years now I may add.

Kwill
Feb 8, 2013, 09:14 AM
What Woz says is true from an out-of-the-box feature standpoint. One need only point to the Samsung marketshare to see this. The popularity of their total-user-experience and tremendous developer support gives a boost to iPhone success, making it infinitely customizable. iPhone 6 better be more than just taller and thinner.

Renzatic
Feb 8, 2013, 09:22 AM
2/ Woz was a genius and we have a lot to thank him for, BUT, he seems to have become the Anti-Mac, i cant remember the last good thing he said about any recent product.



Hardly. He's always gone on record as saying he tends to prefer Apple products to anything else, but he more or less likes everything out there that provides a nice experience. He's had good and bad things to say about WP8, Android, and yup, even iOS.

He isn't trying to drum up drama or becoming a fanboy or whatever, rather he's just calling it like he sees it. Apparently he still thinks iOS is great, but he feels it's falling behind in features. He never said it sucked, or Apple is dead without Steve Jobs or whatever. He's just stating an opinion.

That's what I like about Steve Wozniak. He's a technology fan first and foremost. The company and platform doesn't matter nearly as much to him.

Michael Jordan
Feb 8, 2013, 10:03 AM
He is absolutely right. iOS is so 2008. Nothing has changed. We still have the ugly gradients, skeuomorphic designs. It's just embarrassing for such a beautiful looking device.

jimbo1mcm
Feb 8, 2013, 10:34 AM
He gets it. Samsung is a huge threat. Apple has to have a bigger screen. Let's go Tim.

AlbertEinstein
Feb 8, 2013, 11:08 AM
Mhm, offline car navigation for 110+ countries. Apple has that? All phones have strong points and weak points.

Maps data is not related to iOS.

The smartphone and tablet are now commodities, and the price of iStuff hardware is starting to be more then those willing to pay.

Then why did Apple seize 69% of the phone market? And why has Apples sales been as big as the PC market Q4?

Samsung does not do that and has added tons of features to the s3, s2, and note II since launch including multiwindow and loads of other usefull features. All of these phone have been upgraded to jellybean.

But JellyBean only works on new devices. My Android from early 2012 can't run it.

What Woz says is true from an out-of-the-box feature standpoint. One need only point to the Samsung marketshare to see this. The popularity of their total-user-experience and tremendous developer support gives a boost to iPhone success, making it infinitely customizable. iPhone 6 better be more than just taller and thinner.

If developers are so supported, how come most of them develop for iPhone? Let's not forget that with open platforms comes insecure applications.

Apparently he still thinks iOS is great, but he feels it's falling behind in features.

What is a feature anyhow? Most people on here seems to think that a wider screen does the job. Some even point at Apple should blatantly copy JellyBean.

He is absolutely right. iOS is so 2008. Nothing has changed. We still have the ugly gradients, skeuomorphic designs. It's just embarrassing for such a beautiful looking device.

You seem to be one of those who believe in change for the sake of change. It works, doesn't it?

He gets it. Samsung is a huge threat. Apple has to have a bigger screen. Let's go Tim.

You must be joking.

Sent from my iPhone 5:apple:

nazaar
Feb 8, 2013, 11:39 AM
I agree as well...A friend of mine was showing off her new phone...Lumia I think, compared to my IP5 it just looks more modern and up to date...It's not going to make me jump ship, but if Woz thinks Apple are behind, then maybe things will get done....Not much point in making the comment if they don't.

I agree... I actually saw a guy with Lumia on the commute train this morning, the OS looks fresh and the phone design very modern... I was impressed.
I didn't feel like pulling out my iP5 because side by side I think the iP5 wouldn't look as sharp (IMO).

----------

He gets it. Samsung is a huge threat. Apple has to have a bigger screen. Let's go Tim.

I don't think a bigger screen is so much of an issue as iOS. Apple needs to think outside the box here... Android and Windows OS is leaping over Apple (IMO).

DarkKnightNine
Feb 8, 2013, 11:42 AM
Other than the 12 MP camera, the iPhone 5 also can do all that stuff.

Umm not it can't and I don't know where you get your information from because the iPhone does not have NFC (at least not in Japan it doesn't). And I'm pretty sure I read that the iPhone doesn't have it anywhere else either, so unless you're using something newer than an iPhone 5, then you don't have it either which means you cannot use your iPhone as a credit card or prepaid card such as in the situations I referred to above.

nuckinfutz
Feb 8, 2013, 12:08 PM
Apple is an Apex Predator.

They don't don't have to compete with any other company running the same software. This means they don't have to try and market half baked solutions like NFC (in the USA) as some desirable option. Now in Japan NFC is far more entrenched and you can actually get some use out of if but here it isn't building any momentum.

If NFC doesn't come to Apple Retail, Walmart, Target or some other large national brand here it's done.

BornAgainMac
Feb 8, 2013, 12:13 PM
I wish the Apple II days where back again. I would buy one just as a hobbyist machine if it was re-launched today. He would be a perfect person to relaunch it and I would buy one.

jchase2057
Feb 8, 2013, 12:30 PM
I wish the Apple II days where back again. I would buy one just as a hobbyist machine if it was re-launched today. He would be a perfect person to relaunch it and I would buy one.

I agree. People seem to forget why is word carries so much weight. He started it all.

Smith288
Feb 8, 2013, 12:35 PM
2 words: attention whore

An attention whore? A guy who gets asked by a german publication of his honest opinion on the current state of the iPhone is an attention whore?

I thought attention whores are people who wear green spandex suits or put the lamp shade on their head to get attention?

JAT
Feb 8, 2013, 12:39 PM
7. Siri control of basic settings (Wifi, BT, etc)
8. App Store wish-list with notifications for price changes
9. Ability to purchase iPad only apps from iPhone


8: Just download AppShopper, it is exactly that
7,9: Definitely agree

nuckinfutz
Feb 8, 2013, 12:42 PM
8: Just download AppShopper, it is exactly that
7,9: Definitely agree

I'm an AppShopper fiend! Though it just makes sense to have it backed into the store itself.

Basatne
Feb 8, 2013, 12:47 PM
Gotta love that Woz still lines up for his Apple gear.

matttye
Feb 8, 2013, 12:47 PM
Thank you captain obvious (Woz)!

Nobody I know is disputing iOS has less features.. but a lot of us think iOS is better despite that fact.

JAT
Feb 8, 2013, 12:50 PM
I agree... I actually saw a guy with Lumia on the commute train this morning, the OS looks fresh and the phone design very modern... I was impressed.
I didn't feel like pulling out my iP5 because side by side I think the iP5 wouldn't look as sharp (IMO).
It's a lot more sad that you are worried about being seen using a particular phone, than whatever sad limitations the phone has.

clibinarius
Feb 8, 2013, 12:50 PM
Well, let's not get TOO crazy here. I said I agreed with some things he said, and you are, in a way, kind of putting words in his mouth. He said he still stands in line for Apple products because they still make great products. I think that's pretty much a recommendation from Woz.

My point is that a lot of things that Android lovers (usually the more geeky users, and I mean that in a respectful way) think people would love on phones would really never get used that much. I work in the tech industry so I know a lot of computer geeks--they tend to like the customization options and the hackability of Android phones. But the standard user doesn't care about side loading apps or running CM7--they just want a cheap/free phone that can do Facebook and texting.

And another thing that kind of makes me crazy is that people make statements like this as if Google is innovating in leaps and bounds with Android. They really aren't. Android is in refinement stages now just like iOS. And that's great--Jelly Bean is probably the closest they've gotten to the smoothness of iOS, so good for them. But it's not like they're blowing our minds with new features every 10 minutes. Android is becoming a mature platform. The problem is that only a small percentage of users ever use their most recent OS, and Samsung is the only company making any money on Android, and that's including Google.

None of this has much to do with Woz's comment I guess, but I wish people would get real about what people truly want to do with their phones. I don't care if it's an iPhone or an Android phone, all I ever see *most* users doing with them is Facebook, texting, or playing games. All smartphones do these things now and they pretty much all do them well. The nerds fight over all the stuff that most users never use. A lot of people have latched on to the bigger screens because that is actually a feature they can see and use right away with no effort, and to me, that totally makes sense. THAT is the common phone user. "What can this thing do for me the second I pick it up and start using it?" That's the mindset most people have. The vocal minority of smartphone users (people that argue on forums because this is the kind of stuff they actually care about) have the mindset of, "How many hidden features and tricks does thing do that I can unlock or turn on to make it the Death Star of all phones?"

My criticism of Woz is not that he speaks his mind. My criticism is that his opinions often don't represent reality, and I think he tries to latch on to Apple sometimes as if he still works for them. I would not want him running Apple just because he created the Apple II. I certainly wouldn't mind him in some kind of creative role their, but definitely would not trust his decision making on a lot of things. I never attack people that use phones other than the iPhone (though Android users seem to verbally assault me all the time), and I honestly don't care what phone other people use. It's an argument that just as useless as talking politics and expecting the other person to change their mind if you present your case strongly enough. Completely pointless. So I really don't care what Woz thinks about the iPhone vs. Android. And that's my point I guess:

Woz hasn't worked for Apple in decades. As Apple moved on with bigger and better things, Woz insisted on continuing to work on the Apple II. Woz has never worked for any of the major players in the modern tech game. Not that that's a requirement to know what you're talking about, but his opinion on this stuff is just not something I take seriously any longer. He's irrelevant.

The main problem I think Woz has IS that lack of tinkerability-customization only goes to a small portion, but it does encourage refinements to the OS that are driven by real world use (look at iOS and adapting jailbroken programs, for instance). Apple's not allowing people to jailbreak doesn't make any sense; they're selling very well and I'm jailbroken, but I can tell you, I've bought hundreds of dollars worth of apps.

The truth is with Apple designs, they're great. But NFC has real world use and that is a major complaint I have with the iPhone 5. If Apple adopted real standards, the technology would've taken off, but they don't have to do this. And I suspect that's a lot of the criticism. Anyone who thinks NFC is just for payments I don't think realizes its potential. What you have with the iPhone currently is a very easy to use limited computer in a small package. The more you lock it down, the less innovation you will get.

In terms of Android, it can innovate more simply because whatever phone developers want to put it, they do. Most ideas fail or don't become popular (niche). But the Galaxy phones pretty much have all of the needed features of iPhones, but with popular ideas of other phones too. And a few options of their own. Android's innovations are minor, but the customizability allows for a massive amount of real world beta testing of new features. Apple's walled garden model won't catch up at some point if this continues and if Apple's really that worried about piracy, then they're going to have to ask themselves which they prefer: High margins on everything or low margins on much less.

JAT
Feb 8, 2013, 12:51 PM
I'm an AppShopper fiend! Though it just makes sense to have it backed into the store itself.
I just wish they'd give more than 5 reviews at a time in AppStore.

But I don't think that capability will ever be in AppStore app.

OllyW
Feb 8, 2013, 12:52 PM
8: Just download AppShopper, it is exactly that
7,9: Definitely agree

I'm an AppShopper fiend! Though it just makes sense to have it backed into the store itself.

Sadly, it's no longer available from the App Store (for now)...

http://appshopper.com/blog/2012/12/20/appshopper-app-removed-from-the-app-store-for-now/

jon3543
Feb 8, 2013, 01:13 PM
Gotta love that Woz still lines up for his Apple gear.

That's part of his being an attention whore.

ChazUK
Feb 8, 2013, 01:20 PM
That's part of his being an attention whore.

Perhaps he enjoys the experience?

The thrill of getting his pre-order.
The fun of congregating in line with people in line awaiting their new toy, all with the same interests.
The joy of buying his new gadget.
Finally, seeing lots of other people getting their hands on the latest product from the company he helped create.


Or it could be attention whoring.

jon3543
Feb 8, 2013, 01:34 PM
Perhaps he enjoys the experience?

The thrill of getting his pre-order.
The fun of congregating in line with people in line awaiting their new toy, all with the same interests.
The joy of buying his new gadget.
Finally, seeing lots of other people getting their hands on the latest product from the company he helped create.


Or it could be attention whoring.

The greatest trick Wozniak ever pulled was convincing the world he's not an attention whore.

beeh
Feb 8, 2013, 01:46 PM
Source: reality. You get iOS updates the day they come out.

Still waiting on that update for my iPod - it's stuck at 3.1.3... :)

TacticalDesire
Feb 8, 2013, 01:55 PM
I don't think asking for the ability to set default apps is too much to ask.

designs216
Feb 8, 2013, 02:03 PM
Apple must see Woz like we see our kids, and constantly worry about the next potentially embarrassing thing he's going to say. Instead of teachers, the boss or the minister at church however, the press is always there to amplify the Woz effect by a power of 10. I wonder if Apple has ever tried to sue him to keep his mouth shut?

Tinmania
Feb 8, 2013, 02:50 PM
Source really :confused: it's a known fact. When Apple updates iOS it goes out to all iPhones instantly on all carriers. It's up to the user to press the Update button.

When Google updates Android it goes out to the manufactures. Most of the time the manufacture holds the update back and uses it drive hardware sales. So you end up waiting for months to get it if ever. Or you buy a new Droid with the update preinstalled.
As usual the misunderstanding continues: you don't have to wait for an Android update to get core apps updated. When Chrome is updated, you get it. Plus you get all the features--nothing is intentionally crippled (I am talking to you iOS maps and siri regarding the iPhone 4).

When Safari was updated in iOS 6 you only got it with iOS 6. Oh, and of course that left out the "ancient" iPad 1 (only 2.5 years old). At least on my macs I can update Safari without an entire OS X update.

The Android update situation as it is today is not as bad as many Apple fans would like to believe.




Michael

JoeRito
Feb 8, 2013, 04:24 PM
Samsung Galaxy does rock.... Apple needs to think about multitasking on all networks.... they're falling behind.

Renzatic
Feb 8, 2013, 04:41 PM
The greatest trick Wozniak ever pulled was convincing the world he's not an attention whore.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/suspects.jpg

spyguy10709
Feb 8, 2013, 09:37 PM
Whats the deal with everyone taking everything Woz says as gospel? He was instrumental in creating the original Apple computers but what has he done recently? Not much other than speaking engagements. Since the original Apples, he has done very little other.

He's the chief scientist at Fusion-IO. They make the SSDs that run Facebook, your bank's website, the iTunes App and Music stores - just about anything that's intensive these days.

In other words, he's doing a lot.

----------

As usual the misunderstanding continues: you don't have to wait for an Android update to get core apps updated. When Chrome is updated, you get it. Plus you get all the features--nothing is intentionally crippled (I am talking to you iOS maps and siri regarding the iPhone 4).

When Safari was updated in iOS 6 you only got it with iOS 6. Oh, and of course that left out the "ancient" iPad 1 (only 2.5 years old). At least on my macs I can update Safari without an entire OS X update.

The Android update situation as it is today is not as bad as many Apple fans would like to believe.




Michael
Right, that's why my AT&T HTC One X is still on ICS... When JB 4.1 came out 8 1/2 months ago.

If you think Android updates are working well, get out of here.

Android has more features, but show me any 2.5 year old android device that is still being updated... Let alone will run well.

Bernard SG
Feb 8, 2013, 09:49 PM
Apple is an Apex Predator.

They don't don't have to compete with any other company running the same software. This means they don't have to try and market half baked solutions like NFC (in the USA) as some desirable option. Now in Japan NFC is far more entrenched and you can actually get some use out of if but here it isn't building any momentum.

If NFC doesn't come to Apple Retail, Walmart, Target or some other large national brand here it's done.

I think NFC came at the worst time possible: during a period of bad economy. Companies are not willing to cash out on the capital expenditure that it would require.
Also, call me paranoid, but I wouldn't really feel safe with that technology. Hackers are getting better and better.

spyguy10709
Feb 8, 2013, 09:53 PM
I think NFC came at the worst time possible: during a period of bad economy. Companies are not willing to cash out on the capital expenditure that it would require.
Also, call me paranoid, but I wouldn't really feel safe with that technology. Hackers are getting better and better.
That's exactly why apple is working on using Bluetooth 4.0 for payment tech. Way way better than NFC - it's not as fast, 0.05 seconds vs 0.20 seconds, but still really good, and much more secure.

jon3543
Feb 8, 2013, 09:53 PM
He's the chief scientist at Fusion-IO. They make the SSDs that run Facebook, your bank's website, the iTunes App and Music stores - just about anything that's intensive these days.

In other words, he's doing a lot.

In the million times I've heard the "Chief Scientist" bit, I've never once heard it described what exactly Wozniak does for Fusion-IO, and I'm not aware he has any particular expertise in what they do. So I concluded it's another sinecure, like his position with Apple. I see now I'm not the only one who's been wondering about this:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/25/what_does_steve_wozniak_do_for_fusion_io/page2.html

http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/437632/what_woz_really_does_fusion-io/

He's at best an occasional spokesman who gets them press thanks to his Apple notoriety. That's what "Chief Scientist" means in this context.

Irishman
Feb 9, 2013, 08:43 AM
Unless iOS7 is something super revolutionary, I think Apple will sell the same sort of number of phones, or at least the number they sell each new generation, won't increase like it has the last few times, if that makes sense?
I love iOS, but something new has to happen, just to distinguish itself

Well, we know why they even NEED to distinguish themselves from competing Android phones. If Google, Samsung et al had innovated and done something truly different - for good or for ill - they wouldn't resemble iOS so much on the face to the casual shopper.

We know Google and gang aren't going to do that GUI innovation, so we're reliant upon Apple to do it.

----------

For some reason, I can tell I wouldn't like this guy.

Which guy? Woz?

Are you like really new to following Apple news?

----------

Oh yeah, they indeed have fallen behind. Software even more than the hardware, iOS is just lacking innovation for years now. Android on the other hand has made some real astonishing progress, especially with Jelly Bean. iOS simply has become so boring.

I'm right now on the edge of replacing my 3GS and I never hesitated for one second that my next phone is gonna be powered by Android.

So, the problem that iOS has is that it doesn't get you throbbing in the southern region? And that if YOU'RE bored from it, everyone else must be like you?

Jeez, whatever.

Irishman
Feb 9, 2013, 09:00 AM
What he said was "in features." Fallen behind *in features.* which we all know - apple has never been one to cram every single feature into a product just to say they have it.

Fallen behind in user experience would be a very different thing, and is not what he said.

True.

And he said "somewhat behind", the characterization of which isn't the damning some Fandroids on the web cast upon the iPhone. He doesn't specify (to be fair, he wasn't asked to), so it's nigh-on impossible to judge just what features the Apple co-founder thinks the iPhone would benefit from having.

To me, it makes perfect sense that Apple HAS fallen behind in features. Think about it - since 2007, Apple has released a new model just about at a rate of one per year.

The iPhone (EDGE)
The iPhone 3G
The iPhone 3GS
The iPhone 4
The iPhone 4s
The iPhone 5

Six major revisions. Basically, 6 iPhone models in people's hands.

Using wiki.answers' numbers (because they seemed as reasonable as anyone else's), there are about 400 different Android phone models available (about a third of them seem to have come out in the past 9 months!)

So, Android handset makers have had 400 turns to come out and run test balloons for new features, and don't think for a minute that Samsung doesn't pay attention to how well a certain feature, released first on an HTC or LG phone, is implemented and received. They do, and because of the immense size of that (a beach versus Apple's sandbox), innovation can happen accidentally and still happen faster than on the iPhone.

Mathematics of the frequency of phone releases is doing a lot of their work for them.

AutoUnion39
Feb 9, 2013, 07:04 PM
Woz has no right to be speaking. He hasn't been with the company in a long long time. He's no different from the various media that trash the iPhone for its lack of features year and year, yet with every new release, it outsells the older models combined.

The only major "feature" that Apple seems to be missing these days is a larger screen. Something that can easily be solved.

wbeasley
Feb 9, 2013, 11:38 PM
I updated from 2.3 to 4.1 on my Note and noticed very little difference. Really. Made me wonder why it took the carrier and Samsung so long to release the update.

If updating to "make it work smoother" is "innovative, then Apple have had innovation for years. iOS just works for most people quickly and efficiently.

I would like to see Woz (and other complainers) list specific issues they think iOS has.

The notifications iOS gained are quiet Android-ish but integrate without getting in the way. Use em or don't. That's the biggest issue: you add too many new features you risk overwhelming people with things that are confusing or novelty value. Apple don't seem to do things that way. It might be arrogance or maybe just controlling the overall experience. Depends if you are a regular user or a tinkerer.

spyguy10709
Feb 10, 2013, 09:03 AM
In the million times I've heard the "Chief Scientist" bit, I've never once heard it described what exactly Wozniak does for Fusion-IO, and I'm not aware he has any particular expertise in what they do. So I concluded it's another sinecure, like his position with Apple. I see now I'm not the only one who's been wondering about this:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/25/what_does_steve_wozniak_do_for_fusion_io/page2.html

http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/437632/what_woz_really_does_fusion-io/

He's at best an occasional spokesman who gets them press thanks to his Apple notoriety. That's what "Chief Scientist" means in this context.

The think from arnnet you posted actually explains it. Jesus. Get out of here, man. Woz knows his stuff, and he's still a genius.

jon3543
Feb 10, 2013, 04:51 PM
The think from arnnet you posted actually explains it. Jesus. Get out of here, man. Woz knows his stuff, and he's still a genius.

I know it explains it. That's why I posted it. The more the CEO tries to justify having Wozniak around, the more laughable it gets.

Irishman
Feb 10, 2013, 06:43 PM
Woz has no right to be speaking. He hasn't been with the company in a long long time. He's no different from the various media that trash the iPhone for its lack of features year and year, yet with every new release, it outsells the older models combined.

The only major "feature" that Apple seems to be missing these days is a larger screen. Something that can easily be solved.

Really? You and I, and in fact, MOST people on the planet speak quite freely about Apple almost everyday. Would you say that NONE of us have a right to be speaking about Apple since we NEVER worked there?

That is such a silly way to judge a comment, especially since he just disagrees with you!

spyguy10709
Feb 10, 2013, 10:29 PM
I know it explains it. That's why I posted it. The more the CEO tries to justify having Wozniak around, the more laughable it gets.

Laughable?

What???

The CEO said that Woz approached THEM - Woz wanted to get involved in the conceptual design of new products, and the application of the world's fastest SSD's in an integrated design.

Yeah. Laughable.
(like your FACE. lol jk :P):cool:

jon3543
Feb 10, 2013, 10:32 PM
Laughable?

What???

The CEO said that Woz approached THEM - Woz wanted to get involved in the conceptual design of new products, and the application of the world's fastest SSD's in an integrated design.

Yeah. Laughable.
(like your FACE. lol jk :P):cool:

No, like your reading comprehension is laughable.

spyguy10709
Feb 11, 2013, 09:30 AM
No, like your reading comprehension is laughable.

Why it said it right in the article...

Maybe you're just trying to get me to rage... Not happening.

Have a nice day!

jon3543
Feb 11, 2013, 01:46 PM
Why it said it right in the article...

Maybe you're just trying to get me to rage... Not happening.

Have a nice day!

The articles I linked to say what they say. Plainly. :rolleyes:

spyguy10709
Feb 11, 2013, 02:06 PM
The articles I linked to say what they say. Plainly. :rolleyes:

No, they actually don't.

In the second, the CEO spelled out plain and simple what Woz's job was. You said "other people want to know, too" --- and the CEO answered. What's the point of this conversation anyway?

jon3543
Feb 11, 2013, 02:13 PM
No, they actually don't.

In the second, the CEO spelled out plain and simple what Woz's job was. You said "other people want to know, too" --- and the CEO answered. What's the point of this conversation anyway?

Clearly, there is no point in talking to you. That's why my replies to you have all been so short and simply refer to the articles I linked to.

spyguy10709
Feb 11, 2013, 03:46 PM
Clearly, there is no point in talking to you. That's why my replies to you have all been so short and simply refer to the articles I linked to.

meep.

HELO server
Feb 12, 2013, 08:32 PM
I know Woz made the Apple II back in the day...but

That statement really understates Wozniaks impact on the world.

He were a Aaron Swartz of his days, making the tools and using his creativity so that citizens all around the world could benefit from the computing revolution; making the world a better place.

Wozniak were able to view and analyze systems as a hole, and understand how tings could be made better, and made them better.
- He combined electronics and software in ingenious ways, as he did with video games, were the same and better could be made with a fraction of the electronics.
- Combined with mechanics he made the IWM, modulating the speed of the drive to place more information on the rim of the disc, and to improve reliability, and to keep the speed of the interface constant. The same is used on all CDs and DVDs today. HDs place more information on the rim too.
- The tricks of making RAM without RAM chips, displaying color using "black and white" electronics, and all the others, is a huge inspiration.
- The list of contributions is immense, but more than anything else it is his thinking. How to make the world better. How to make clever and fun things. How to view things in a different light.

Wozniaks ideas had a profound impact on Burell.
Burells Apple II mouse card is also a good example of how to do it right, including using a prime number of instructions in the sync. loop.
Burell is the main genius that created the electronics in the Mac. Without Burell there would be no Apple today.

Wozniak cofounded Apple.


People like Woz and Aaron have given us so much. The direct result of their effort, their inspiration and their humanity. They have enriched the life of so many. They have done so all their life.

I am more grateful than I can express.

vinmac3
Feb 12, 2013, 08:42 PM
HOW? An iPhone does everything that other phones can do...and it just works!

Tinmania
Feb 12, 2013, 09:13 PM
Right, that's why my AT&T HTC One X is still on ICS... When JB 4.1 came out 8 1/2 months ago.

If you think Android updates are working well, get out of here.

Android has more features, but show me any 2.5 year old android device that is still being updated... Let alone will run well.
Completely missed the point.

But for starters, I stated the iPad 1, 2.5 years old, didn't get iOS 6. The iPhone 4, a little newer than the iPad 1, got a crippled iOS 6. So if your point was "yea but it is the same on Android" then, uh, ok. Except Android is getting better whereas iOS is more stagnant.

And 2.5 year old Android devices get updated to the latest core apps that newer devices get. Can't say that about Safari or iOS core apps: you get the apps updated with the OS (absurd, IMO). Gee let's wait a year for the new Safari. Yay.



Michael

Bahroo
Feb 12, 2013, 10:55 PM
Completely missed the point.

But for starters, I stated the iPad 1, 2.5 years old, didn't get iOS 6. The iPhone 4, a little newer than the iPad 1, got a crippled iOS 6. So if your point was "yea but it is the same on Android" then, uh, ok. Except Android is getting better whereas iOS is more stagnant.

And 2.5 year old Android devices get updated to the latest core apps that newer devices get. Can't say that about Safari or iOS core apps: you get the apps updated with the OS (absurd, IMO). Gee let's wait a year for the new Safari. Yay.



Michael


I agree with your notion that Android core apps can be updated from the Play Store is a superior method to Apples way. now with that being said, we dont have to wait a year for Safari to be improved, Apple always adds updates to Safari in .1 patches and what not. iOS 4.2 brought faster Safari with new features, iOS 5.2 brought a faster Safari with new features so the wait for a update to Safari is actually generally about 3 months

i can see Apple really changing around the way iOS works in iOS 7, there is alot of things that Apple can simply add that would make the OS better, things like having core apps be able to be updated through the App store and what not, etc

Androids method of distributing OS updates through carriers then to the people is a really poor method and
I hope they can fix that in the future

----------

You people are delusional to think Apple hasn't fallen behind as they were NEVER on par with other phones here in Japan to begin with. Woz was being political in order not to step on any toes, but the fact of the matter is, if you look at the features offered on almost any phone here in Japan, they have ALWAYS been far superior to the iPhone.

So then why do I and so many other Japanese use the iPhone? Ease of use and software integration. One thing the Japanese suck at is GUI design. Their hardware may be awesome, but software is how people interact with any device and that's where Japanese suck. When rumors of the very first iPhone began to surface, everyone thought it would be a failure here in Japan. Since I worked at a large tech company at the time and saw first hand how Japanese design their software interface, I knew the iPhone would take Japan by storm. People just want something simple and elegant and that is the iPhone's greatest strength. It is certainly not chocked full of features. Meaning no disrespect to Apple, but "thinner and lighter" although ver sexy, is NOT a useful feature. I can use my Japanese phone to ride the train, buy stuff at a convenient store or a snack machine, it connects hands-free to the audio system in my car and displays all of my contacts on my car navigation display, it has a 12 megapixel camera and so on. Those are REAL features.

So has the iPhone fallen slightly behind? In my opinion, it never caught up.

i can have my iPhone 5 connect hands free to the audio system and display all my contacts as well, thats been a basic feature on almost every bluetooth capable phone since ever..

i fail to see how a "12 megapixel camera" is a big FEATURE, megapixels arent everything you know, the i5 and i4S can take some fantastic looking photos



----------

to be honest, yes Apple has slowed down in progress in iOS, but there honestly in a fantastic position still, they really have no where to go but up with iOS, they have a extremely solid foundation to build on and improve and with Scott Forstall gone, there will be a new breath of fresh air for the next version of iOS. i have a great feeling about the future of iOS.

----------

I agree... I actually saw a guy with Lumia on the commute train this morning, the OS looks fresh and the phone design very modern... I was impressed.
I didn't feel like pulling out my iP5 because side by side I think the iP5 wouldn't look as sharp (IMO).

----------



I don't think a bigger screen is so much of an issue as iOS. Apple needs to think outside the box here... Android and Windows OS is leaping over Apple (IMO).

aw man, how can you say the i5 doesnt look spectacular, i think its the best looking smartphone on the market by far. thats just my opinion though, espcially the white iPhone 5, that thing shines and gleams man its beautiful

spyguy10709
Feb 13, 2013, 10:25 AM
Completely missed the point.

But for starters, I stated the iPad 1, 2.5 years old, didn't get iOS 6. The iPhone 4, a little newer than the iPad 1, got a crippled iOS 6. So if your point was "yea but it is the same on Android" then, uh, ok. Except Android is getting better whereas iOS is more stagnant.

And 2.5 year old Android devices get updated to the latest core apps that newer devices get. Can't say that about Safari or iOS core apps: you get the apps updated with the OS (absurd, IMO). Gee let's wait a year for the new Safari. Yay.



Michael

2.5 year old Android devices DON'T get the latest core apps. Look at my Evo 4G --- It doesn't have the latest Play Store, the latest GMail, and it can't run chrome. AND it has better specs than the iPhone 4. End of story.

Tinmania
Feb 13, 2013, 11:03 AM
2.5 year old Android devices DON'T get the latest core apps. Look at my Evo 4G --- It doesn't have the latest Play Store, the latest GMail, and it can't run chrome. AND it has better specs than the iPhone 4. End of story.
Wish there was a way to auto-scan for "end of story" and ignore any post that ends in it. Do you think it adds some kind of weight to an argument? It just looks like reaching to me.

You chose about the worst example of an Android phone not getting updated. Granted it was released before the iPhone 4, when things were pretty bad for Android regarding updates.

Regardless, it is 2013 now, not 2010. Most all flagship Android phones released in 2012 have jb updates.

All that said I am sure you are fully aware you can get ICS and Chrome on the Evo 4G. Or even jb for that matter.




Michael

spyguy10709
Feb 13, 2013, 11:36 AM
Wish there was a way to auto-scan for "end of story" and ignore any post that ends in it. Do you think it adds some kind of weight to an argument? It just looks like reaching to me.

You chose about the worst example of an Android phone not getting updated. Granted it was released before the iPhone 4, when things were pretty bad for Android regarding updates.

Regardless, it is 2013 now, not 2010. Most all flagship Android phones released in 2012 have jb updates.

All that said I am sure you are fully aware you can get ICS and Chrome on the Evo 4G. Or even jb for that matter.

Michael

Show me how I can get ICS. And I don't mean hacking. I can hack all the latest features (and MORE!) onto my iPad 1 or iPhone 3GS, but I'm not talking about that.

I chose the worst example? Look at ANY AT&T ONE series phone. All "flagships" of 2012, but none have jellybean. Or the Sprint GS2. That doesn't have JB. Or the Verizon GALAXY NEXUS, which is still on 4.1. 4.2 came out MONTHS ago, and the ultimate Google flagship doesn't have it?! Ridiculous.

Android is a great OS, I love it. But updates SUCK.

(Oh and BTW, try CMD+F "End of story". That should do it. But I'm sure you already knew that.)

Dr McKay
Feb 14, 2013, 12:53 AM
Oh I notice:D I have one sitting on my desk here at work. Jelly Bean is nice and clean looking. But still cumbersome to deal with in my opinion.

I have a user who brought his Galaxy III phone to me and every time it is rebooted it wipes out the data? All contacts, settings, emails, apps, everything gone. This thing is a week old according to my user and nothing was done to it other than he added contacts and setup his email. It's things like this that keep Apple ahead. Believe me I understand this isn't the normal activity and is probably bad hardware. But going through "Settings" on a Droid is annoying enough for me to stay away.

So a clearly faulty phone is allowing Apple to stay ahead? I've never seen anyone with that issue. I don't feel Jelly Bean is nice to look at on a GS3 because I dislike TouchWiz, on my Nexus 4 however it looks great. Also what's wrong with the settings menu in Android? To me it makes more sense than iOS, especially with App settings. In Android your settings menu controls your phone settings, if you want to change app settings you go into the app to change them.

On iOS some app settings are in the settings menu, some are in the apps themselves and it's a confusing mess.

Maps data is not related to iOS.
But JellyBean only works on new devices. My Android from early 2012 can't run it.

What phone do you have? Odds are there is a JellyBean ROM for it.

You seem to be one of those who believe in change for the sake of change. It works, doesn't it?

Sounds a lot like how RIM thought of their Blackberry Business.

Tinmania
Feb 14, 2013, 10:05 AM
On iOS some app settings are in the settings menu, some are in the apps themselves and it's a confusing mess.
I hate that about iOS. Leaving one app and going to another app (Settings is an app), in order to change settings for the first app, is ridiculous in my opinion.



Mike

quasinormal
Feb 14, 2013, 11:07 AM
He sort of has a point but i think it that Samsung/Google is catching up rather than Apple falling behind. You can only innovate so much.

396938