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MasterHowl
Feb 13, 2013, 10:54 AM
They announced Mountain Lion on Thursday February 16 2012... maybe they'll announce 10.9 tomorrow? That's assuming they're continuing with the yearly OS cycle.



Krazy Bill
Feb 13, 2013, 11:00 AM
If so, it'll be a let down I fear.

These fast cycles leave no time for innovation. Each successive release will simply seem like "updates" to the former.

Michael Goff
Feb 13, 2013, 11:07 AM
If so, it'll be a let down I fear.

These fast cycles leave no time for innovation. Each successive release will simply seem like "updates" to the former.

I don't know about that.

Haven't you looked at Ubuntu? There's a huge amount of difference between 11.04 and 12.04. >_>;

Krazy Bill
Feb 13, 2013, 11:16 AM
Haven't you looked at Ubuntu? There's a huge amount of difference between 11.04 and 12.04. >_>;Now how the heck does Ubuntu get dragged into an OSX 10.9 thread? :confused:

Michael Goff
Feb 13, 2013, 11:25 AM
Now how the heck does Ubuntu get dragged into an OSX 10.9 thread? :confused:

"1 year isn't enough time for innovation" is a blanket statement that I wanted to freaking prove wrong. It is definitely enough time.

I'll explain it for you, just in case you still don't understand.

Person A: Yearly releases? That's never enough time for something big and innovative!
Person B: What about *good example here*?
Person A: What does that have to do with this? I was busy talking about how yearly releases can't be innovative!

PBP
Feb 13, 2013, 11:42 AM
They announced Mountain Lion on Thursday February 16 2012... maybe they'll announce 10.9 tomorrow? That's assuming they're continuing with the yearly OS cycle.

Why tomorrow? Why not next week, this friday or next month?

AlbertEinstein
Feb 13, 2013, 11:45 AM
Won't happen.

MasterHowl
Feb 13, 2013, 11:55 AM
Why tomorrow? Why not next week, this friday or next month?

Because Apple tend to do things in patterns, making "events" sort of predictable.

PBP
Feb 13, 2013, 12:06 PM
Because Apple tend to do things in patterns, making "events" sort of predictable.

Yeah tomorrow is not the 16th of February. 10.8.3 isn't even out yet, i think we will have to wait a couple of weeks. Apple can also announce it in March or whatever.

MasterHowl
Feb 13, 2013, 12:24 PM
Yeah tomorrow is not the 16th of February.

Nope, but they usually "do stuff" on a Tuesday or Thursday right?

If so, it'll be a let down I fear.

These fast cycles leave no time for innovation. Each successive release will simply seem like "updates" to the former.

If they do some under the hood stuff to make OS X faster, that would be amazing. But unfortunately, I fear they'll just slap more iOS stuff onto an already bloated OS...

Peace
Feb 13, 2013, 12:29 PM
Lion version 10.7.3 came out Wednesday Feb. 1st 2012 then 10.8 was released to devs about 2 weeks later. If this is any indication we might see 10.8.3 today sometime and 10.9 in a couple of weeks.

FSMBP
Feb 13, 2013, 02:07 PM
If so, it'll be a let down I fear.

These fast cycles leave no time for innovation. Each successive release will simply seem like "updates" to the former.

I agree...also it puts huge strain on independent developers and users.

In a span of August 2010 - August 2012, Apple had 3 OSes in two years. A developer would either abandon users or try to maintain 3 versions of their app. Abandoning users obviously is a huge letdown for users, while maintaining that many versions uses a lot of resources (financial and employees).

With this yearly cycle, Apple barely refines its buggy OSes (ex. Lion is a buggy slow mess and obviously users won't be getting updates for it anymore). By the time an OS is 6 months old, Apple is already beta-ing a new OS.

DJLC
Feb 13, 2013, 02:36 PM
I'd prefer they announce an update to OS X Server that makes it actually work.

Sky Blue
Feb 13, 2013, 02:39 PM
Lion DP1 for Lion was available Feb 24th 2011, Mountain Lion was available Feb 16th 2012. Both of these days are Thursdays.

If Apple stick to that pattern we should be 10.9 DP1 tomorrow or Thursday next week.

50548
Feb 13, 2013, 02:42 PM
They announced Mountain Lion on Thursday February 16 2012... maybe they'll announce 10.9 tomorrow? That's assuming they're continuing with the yearly OS cycle.

You must be joking, unless you're talking about a pre-pre-pre-DP version for developers only.

MasterHowl
Feb 13, 2013, 03:21 PM
You must be joking, unless you're talking about a pre-pre-pre-DP version for developers only.

Obviously, as here (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/16/apple-releases-first-developer-preview-of-os-x-mountain-lion-public-launch-in-late-summer/).

50548
Feb 13, 2013, 03:38 PM
Obviously, as here (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/16/apple-releases-first-developer-preview-of-os-x-mountain-lion-public-launch-in-late-summer/).

Sure - let's just hope its "main" feature isn't integration with yet another social network.

Michael Goff
Feb 13, 2013, 03:40 PM
Sure - let's just hope its "main" feature isn't integration with yet another social network.

What Social Network are they missing that matters?

hagr182
Feb 13, 2013, 04:06 PM
What Social Network are they missing that matters?

Instagram or Vine! LOL I dont think 10.9 is being announced tomorrow, but it will happen soon. All I want of it is better performance!

MasterHowl
Feb 13, 2013, 04:26 PM
Sure - let's just hope its "main" feature isn't integration with yet another social network.

Yup.

I'm hoping for some under the hood features personally. Got my iPad and iPhone for iOS stuff!

Instagram or Vine!

They will never get integrated into Mac OS

50548
Feb 13, 2013, 04:35 PM
What Social Network are they missing that matters?

I wasn't being serious, even if this wouldn't be surprising. It was just a general criticism to the way OS X has been updated over the last years...too much fluff from iOS and zero under-the-hood improvements or true innovative steps (FusionDrive excepted, perhaps).

MasterHowl
Feb 13, 2013, 04:38 PM
I wasn't being serious, even if this wouldn't be surprising. It was just a general criticism to the way OS X has been updated over the last years...too much fluff from iOS and zero under-the-hood improvements or true innovative steps (FusionDrive excepted, perhaps).

And power nap. I thought that was fantastic.

Michael Goff
Feb 13, 2013, 04:40 PM
I wasn't being serious, even if this wouldn't be surprising. It was just a general criticism to the way OS X has been updated over the last years...too much fluff from iOS and zero under-the-hood improvements or true innovative steps (FusionDrive excepted, perhaps).

If you hate fluff from iOS, you'll not like the next version. So far, we're quite certain we're getting Maps and Siri.

MattInOz
Feb 13, 2013, 05:01 PM
If so, it'll be a let down I fear.

These fast cycles leave no time for innovation. Each successive release will simply seem like "updates" to the former.

Which do you think delivers usable features to user sooner?

a) Big Showcase Features - that are complex, can be buggy for a year due to lack of field testing and developers don't adopt because it's to big a change so they have to plan in the change.

b) Smaller incremental releases, that can break a big features into smaller independently useful features, so each of the smaller units gets field tested and developers can make smaller tweaks to take advantage of them.

To me b) certainly gets the piecemeal parts of improved function useful sooner, if not the full effective function. Might not be as fun but sure is more valuable.

Hungry&Foolish
Feb 13, 2013, 05:36 PM
Tomorrow 11th Beta is coming.:D

Osullivan1
Feb 14, 2013, 12:26 PM
If so, it'll be a let down I fear.

These fast cycles leave no time for innovation. Each successive release will simply seem like "updates" to the former.

TBH, it's not like people are going to like an OS that is released on a longer cycle more: OS X Lion wasn't very well received, with many people sticking with Snow Leopard, and that was released 2 years after SL. Also, it's likely the price of the OS would be higher if it was on a longer cycle so they can make the same amount of money from upgrades.

Plus, who knows if Apple might release a large update (such as Lion) every two years, and a smaller update (such as ML) every other year just to keep it fresh? It could happen...

Krazy Bill
Feb 14, 2013, 12:56 PM
OS X Lion wasn't very well received, with many people sticking with Snow Leopard, and that was released 2 years after SL

Which is why I say 10.9 will be a let down. That said, given the leadership change and no rush to stick to this silly-assed annual release schedule I think 10.9 could be reinvigorated into something quite nice - a lot of the code rewritten from the ground up. Perhaps even a UI makeover. Impossible now IMO.

Also, 10.9 development started a long time ago - way before Apple's stock tanked so at the time they basically had every reason to believe that 10.8 is what users want. (More similarities to iOS).

Anyone expecting anything more in 10.9 than iOS based Maps and Siri is in for a disappointment.

Also, it's likely the price of the OS would be higher if it was on a longer cycle so they can make the same amount of money from upgrades.
Eh? Apple basic gives OSX away to sell more macs. The revenue they generate from this is nothing. I actually believe it's not free just to give it some kind of value to the end user.

Plus, who knows if Apple might release a large update (such as Lion) every two years, and a smaller update (such as ML) every other year just to keep it fresh? It could happen...One could hope but I doubt it. Again, macs/OSX is not Apple's bread and butter. OSX exists only to sell more iPhones and iPads. (Or the other way around).

nuckinfutz
Feb 14, 2013, 01:18 PM
Apple's doing just fine on the innovation front. Major changes take years to reach fruition but nice iterative changes are happing every 12-16 months with OS X.

I would welcome the Maps API and Siri coming to both coming OS X along with better location features in OS X.

A big improvement would be more robust and stable Documents in the Cloud, further progress on SMB support and some good UI polish.

Since OTA upgrades are easy I see no problem with having a fairly short development cycle.

fisherking
Feb 14, 2013, 03:37 PM
doesn't it all depend on what day you READ this thread? if i read it the day before 10.9 is announced, then YES, it will be announced tomorrow... :cool:

Osullivan1
Feb 15, 2013, 02:22 PM
Apple basic gives OSX away to sell more macs. The revenue they generate from this is nothing. I actually believe it's not free just to give it some kind of value to the end user.

I never thought of it like that, but now you've said it I totally agree.

AppleNewton
Feb 15, 2013, 10:31 PM
i wish for enhancements for Software Updates, the whole mac appstore update procedure is okay for some apps but not everything and it is kind of backwards imo.
especially managing multiple macs in various environments.

better iCloud integration, with increased storage capacity included for mail/documents

unobtainium
Feb 16, 2013, 03:07 AM
I'd like to see some speed improvements. I feel like my 2011 MBP was incredibly snappy when I first bought it, and now feels a bit sluggish - especially when using iTunes or iPhoto. The thing is, what could really have changed in the past two years to slow it down this much? Is Mountain Lion really doing that much more work in the background than Snow Leopard was?

And yes, it's a fresh install of 10.8.2.

aziatiklover
Feb 16, 2013, 03:36 AM
I'd like to see some speed improvements. I feel like my 2011 MBP was incredibly snappy when I first bought it, and now feels a bit sluggish - especially when using iTunes or iPhoto. The thing is, what could really have changed in the past two years to slow it down this much? Is Mountain Lion really doing that much more work in the background than Snow Leopard was?

And yes, it's a fresh install of 10.8.2.

Ssd and more ram do you have them? Maybe that wuld be your answer of sluggish!

SpyderBite
Feb 16, 2013, 04:05 AM
What Social Network are they missing that matters?

LinkedIn would be nice for those of us who use our technology for more than chatting with high school buddies or sharing pictures of our food.

Ddyracer
Feb 16, 2013, 05:19 AM
So what are the odds 10.9 will be announced today? And, is Cougar the codename?

unobtainium
Feb 16, 2013, 02:37 PM
Ssd and more ram do you have them? Maybe that wuld be your answer of sluggish!

I'm debating now between doing some upgrades myself or just buying the Haswell rMBP when it's released. I never bought Apple Care so I'm anxious to get back on warranty before something goes wrong lol

Sky Blue
Feb 16, 2013, 02:48 PM
So what are the odds 10.9 will be announced today? And, is Cougar the codename?

On a Saturday? 0%.

Krazy Bill
Feb 16, 2013, 04:23 PM
On a Saturday? 0%.And now "tomorrow" is Sunday. I stand a better chance of having my wife find the stove and actually figure out how to cook something on it. :eek:

Naw... going to look for flying pigs instead.

Sky Blue
Feb 16, 2013, 04:37 PM
Wow, that was pretty sexist.

MacsRgr8
Feb 16, 2013, 04:51 PM
I'd prefer they announce an update to OS X Server that makes it actually work.

Not wishing... but expecting: a further simplification of OS X Server. This time without stuff like DNS ;)

Peace
Feb 16, 2013, 04:55 PM
The longer Apple puts off seeding a dev preview of OS 10.9 the higher the odds of a drastic change in the OS.

If it doesn't come out in the next couple of weeks I'm going to guess devs won't see a preview of OS 10.9 or IOS 7 until the WWDC sometime in June.

DJLC
Feb 16, 2013, 05:10 PM
Not wishing... but expecting: a further simplification of OS X Server. This time without stuff like DNS ;)

Good, they'll strip out more core functionality and make the product even more useless.

Stoked!

:rolleyes:

Krazy Bill
Feb 17, 2013, 12:06 PM
Wow, that was pretty sexist.In what way? You are sexist for assuming the label "wife" is gender-specific. :confused:

50548
Feb 17, 2013, 02:28 PM
The longer Apple puts off seeding a dev preview of OS 10.9 the higher the odds of a drastic change in the OS.

If it doesn't come out in the next couple of weeks I'm going to guess devs won't see a preview of OS 10.9 or IOS 7 until the WWDC sometime in June.

When was the last time an OS X release had a "wow" factor? I can't even remember...Jaguar perhaps?

Peace
Feb 17, 2013, 02:30 PM
When was the last time an OS X release had a "wow" factor? I can't even remember...Jaguar perhaps?

Perhaps Tiger ?

Maybe OS 10.9 is going to have ZFS. I saw a job opening for an engineer at Apple with experience in Sun's Solaris OS.

Here we go :

https://jobs.apple.com/us/search?#&ss=ZFS&t=0&so=&lo=0*USA&pN=0&openJobId=26370801

50548
Feb 17, 2013, 02:46 PM
Perhaps Tiger ?

Maybe OS 10.9 is going to have ZFS. I saw a job opening for an engineer at Apple with experience in Sun's Solaris OS.

Here we go :

https://jobs.apple.com/us/search?#&ss=ZFS&t=0&so=&lo=0*USA&pN=0&openJobId=26370801

That would be a good start.

Peace
Feb 17, 2013, 03:12 PM
That would be a good start.

Ya. But I think those job postings are just for systems engineers for the data centers.

chrisaster
Feb 17, 2013, 03:41 PM
What about recent purchases that come with 10.8 will they be allowed for a free update?

Tar Sniffer
Feb 17, 2013, 06:04 PM
What about recent purchases that come with 10.8 will they be allowed for a free update?

The update program is usually for purchases that occured one month before the release of the latest OS X.

MattInOz
Feb 17, 2013, 06:11 PM
The update program is usually for purchases that occured one month before the release of the latest OS X.

I thought it was month before announcement normally?
It's at least from announcement to release sales gets free upgrade.

Mr. Retrofire
Feb 17, 2013, 07:00 PM
Maybe OS 10.9 is going to have ZFS.
More metadata in the FS, yes. No ZFS in 10.9.

I saw a job opening for an engineer at Apple with experience in Sun's Solaris OS.

Here we go :
https://jobs.apple.com/us/search?#&ss=ZFS&t=0&so=&lo=0*USA&pN=0&openJobId=26370801
That is a standard description for a system administrator job. Has nothing to do with ZFS.

----------

When was the last time an OS X release had a "wow" factor? I can't even remember...Jaguar perhaps?
Panther (Mac OS X 10.3.x) was really impressive (and fast). Snow Leopard (Mac OS X 10.6.x) is still much better than Lion & Mountain Lion, especially the GUI.

maxosx
Feb 17, 2013, 07:07 PM
It's FUD.

Tar Sniffer
Feb 17, 2013, 07:20 PM
I thought it was month before announcement normally?
It's at least from announcement to release sales gets free upgrade.

It depends which announcement you are referring to. Mountain Lion was unveiled in Feb last year, but was shown off again at WWDC in June, which was around the time the Upgrade Program began.

Here is a link to the ML upgrade eligibility. http://www.apple.com/au/osx/uptodate/

chrisaster
Feb 18, 2013, 02:20 AM
The update program is usually for purchases that occured one month before the release of the latest OS X.

Thanks... There should be a thanks option for this forum.

Mr. Retrofire
Feb 18, 2013, 11:32 AM
Thanks... There should be a thanks option for this forum.
You say thanks with the upvote button.

SR45
Feb 18, 2013, 01:48 PM
This...

colourfastt
Feb 18, 2013, 02:00 PM
What Social Network are they missing that matters?

NONE of them matter!!

dastinger
Feb 18, 2013, 02:22 PM
I imagine the new Mac keyboards. Forget the Brightness, Volume, Media Keys. F1 to Like, F2 to Share, F3 to Tweet :mad:

50548
Feb 18, 2013, 03:24 PM
I imagine the new Mac keyboards. Forget the Brightness, Volume, Media Keys. F1 to Like, F2 to Share, F3 to Tweet :mad:

Unfortunately I don't think this would be all that surprising...

Giuly
Feb 18, 2013, 03:29 PM
Hopefully it's called Mountain Leopard.

Michael Goff
Feb 18, 2013, 06:25 PM
NONE of them matter!!

Incorrect.

Google Plus matters... but I've given up on it being integrated because Apple hates Google.

WhackyNinja
Feb 18, 2013, 09:07 PM
Incorrect.

Google Plus matters... but I've given up on it being integrated because Apple hates Google.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTBPdVpdMc sorry this song popped up when I saw this... lol

throAU
Feb 18, 2013, 09:13 PM
Also, 10.9 development started a long time ago - way before Apple's stock tanked so at the time they basically had every reason to believe that 10.8 is what users want. (More similarities to iOS).


reading things into apple's stock price in this economy, is imho a little dubious.

In case you hadn't realised, the world economy is pretty screwed. Apple is one of the few big companies out there that is reliably turning a profit, and people are likely fleeing to it and exiting it based on global economic news just as much as due to any product announcement.

I very much doubt the average investor in apple is keeping tabs on OS X.

koban4max
Feb 18, 2013, 11:50 PM
They announced Mountain Lion on Thursday February 16 2012... maybe they'll announce 10.9 tomorrow? That's assuming they're continuing with the yearly OS cycle.

Unless apple stated anything....don't count on anything.

----------

Hopefully it's called Mountain Leopard.

hello kitty is the new cat.

Tar Sniffer
Feb 19, 2013, 06:20 AM
Don't expect anything until 10.8.3 is released. Apple is probably taking their time getting this minor update right since there won't be many developers left using Mountain Lion once they release the 10.9 Developer Preview.

colourfastt
Feb 19, 2013, 06:35 AM
Incorrect.

Google Plus matters... but I've given up on it being integrated because Apple hates Google.

That matters not. These "social networks" are nothing more than a waste of one's time, and a way to avoid face-to-face contact with other people.

chrisaster
Feb 19, 2013, 03:01 PM
You say thanks with the upvote button.

Tapatalk doesnt have that option from what I can see.

dastinger
Feb 22, 2013, 09:26 AM
Unfortunately I don't think this would be all that surprising...
That really scares me :(

Sky Blue
Feb 22, 2013, 12:11 PM
Would be surprised if it's not announced this Thursday.

Peace
Feb 22, 2013, 12:13 PM
It won't come out until 10.8.3 has been out at least one week.

If that.

Sky Blue
Feb 22, 2013, 03:37 PM
Don't see what that's got to do with it. Do they only have 1 person working on all of OS X?

Peace
Feb 22, 2013, 03:53 PM
Not really. More to do with giving developers a chance to fix their apps for 10.8.3 before moving on to 10.9.

That's how they did it last year. And since last year was a first for a surprise seed of a new version it came exactly one week after 10.7.3.

Sky Blue
Feb 22, 2013, 03:58 PM
10.7.3 - Feb 1st
10.8 DP1 - Feb 16th

Peace
Feb 22, 2013, 05:16 PM
Ok. Cool. Two weeks then.

katewes
Feb 22, 2013, 11:09 PM
I am sick of these silly annual new versions of OSX. Last time, it messed up my VMWare file which wouldn't work on Mountain Lion. Out of all the 200+ or so features that Apple touted, less than a handful are relevant to me. The whole place has gone mad. Apple is sick with consumerism, wanting to bring out the latest toy every year. Stuff the stability of apps that have to be updated every year just to work with the latest OSX version. Some of us out here are trying to get some work done on OSX.

Ok, since stability is important to me, I do not upgrade oSX with everyone else. I wait till its more stable, e.g. 10.6.6 or 10.7.4. But it impacts me when I need to buy a new Mac, and it comes with a buggy early version of the latest and greatest OSX, and when I need to transfer my older software, e.g. my VMWare data file.

Money has gotten to Apple's brain, but the fact is, these Apple management people stare at the mirror and con themselves into believing they're still make great products. Why else is the cash pile growing, they justify themselves.

- Bring back a 2 year release cycle of OSX
- Each new OSX, get it up to around 10.x.9 to be totally rock stable
- Have wider beta testing so we consumers are not used as paid beta-testers.

If I didn't have to buy Macs every so often, I would not care. I just would not update until the OS was rock solid, and all of you can gnash your teeth as you help Apple discover bugs. But I do regularly buy new Macs, and I don't like them coming with buggy releases such as 10.7.0-3 and 10.8.0-2

thejadedmonkey
Feb 22, 2013, 11:19 PM
Eh? Apple basic gives OSX away to sell more macs. The revenue they generate from this is nothing. I actually believe it's not free just to give it some kind of value to the end user.

I never really thought about the rationale, but if you have a userbase that's consistantly on the newest OS, it makes it easier for Apple to keep their app-store developers always writing for the newest OS, and any laptop that's more than 3 years old that doesn't have OS support, doesn't get new apps, and is... outdated.

By this time next year, I'm sure the first core i5's will start being "dated" in the world of Apple.

Kashchei
Feb 22, 2013, 11:20 PM
It won't come out until 10.8.3 has been out at least one week.

If that.

Waiting for 10.8.3 is like Waiting for Godot

wrldwzrd89
Feb 23, 2013, 06:32 AM
Apple's most likely planning 10.8.3 to be a major "clean up outstanding bugs" release of 10.8, aka the final one before engineering effort fully transitions to getting 10.9 ready. That would explain the larger than normal number of betas.

ssn637
Feb 23, 2013, 07:06 AM
Don't think I've ever been so impatient for an OS X upgrade. I remember reading somewhere that Windows 8 will also be supported with 10.8.3's Boot Camp utility. And if OS X 10.9 follows shortly thereafter it will be interesting to see what the new operating system has to offer.

alphaod
Feb 23, 2013, 09:32 AM
They announced Mountain Lion on Thursday February 16 2012... maybe they'll announce 10.9 tomorrow? That's assuming they're continuing with the yearly OS cycle.

OS X used to be released on an alternative 18 month/12 month cycle.

ThirteenXIII
Feb 24, 2013, 07:15 AM
I am sick of these silly annual new versions of OSX. Last time, it messed up my VMWare file which wouldn't work on Mountain Lion. Out of all the 200+ or so features that Apple touted, less than a handful are relevant to me. The whole place has gone mad. Apple is sick with consumerism, wanting to bring out the latest toy every year. Stuff the stability of apps that have to be updated every year just to work with the latest OSX version. Some of us out here are trying to get some work done on OSX.

Ok, since stability is important to me, I do not upgrade oSX with everyone else. I wait till its more stable, e.g. 10.6.6 or 10.7.4. But it impacts me when I need to buy a new Mac, and it comes with a buggy early version of the latest and greatest OSX, and when I need to transfer my older software, e.g. my VMWare data file.

Money has gotten to Apple's brain, but the fact is, these Apple management people stare at the mirror and con themselves into believing they're still make great products. Why else is the cash pile growing, they justify themselves.

- Bring back a 2 year release cycle of OSX
- Each new OSX, get it up to around 10.x.9 to be totally rock stable
- Have wider beta testing so we consumers are not used as paid beta-testers.

If I didn't have to buy Macs every so often, I would not care. I just would not update until the OS was rock solid, and all of you can gnash your teeth as you help Apple discover bugs. But I do regularly buy new Macs, and I don't like them coming with buggy releases such as 10.7.0-3 and 10.8.0-2


I can agree on some points. I think Apple Retail is where Apple Corporate is taking its queue from, honestly. Where as in the beginning the influence was reversed.

They see numbers and immediately just go on that, Tim is very robotic it seems when it comes to product productions and manipulation.

However, in regards to customers being paying beta testers, in Apple's defense there is a HUGE customer beta-test program Apple has. Customers (non-developers) have access to OS X releases to test in their environment and platforms. Its a great program and highly involved. And they also have the Developer side of it as well.

So there is alot of testing and QA going into these public releases.

bkends35
Feb 24, 2013, 08:42 PM
Anyone else wish that they could use Snow Leopard on their rMBP's?

Some buddies of mine still use snow leopard and IMO its much better than mountain lion in many ways.

Sky Blue
Feb 24, 2013, 09:07 PM
Anyone else wish that they could use Snow Leopard on their rMBP's?


Not in the slightest.

Tmelon
Feb 24, 2013, 10:56 PM
Anyone else wish that they could use Snow Leopard on their rMBP's?

Some buddies of mine still use snow leopard and IMO its much better than mountain lion in many ways.

Snow Leopard was great back in '09, but I'd much prefer Mountain Lion.

fivenotrump
Feb 25, 2013, 11:31 AM
Anyone else wish that they could use Snow Leopard on their rMBP's?

Some buddies of mine still use snow leopard and IMO its much better than mountain lion in many ways.

It was good in its day, which has now passed.

jasimon9
Feb 25, 2013, 09:21 PM
Anyone else wish that they could use Snow Leopard on their rMBP's?

Some buddies of mine still use snow leopard and IMO its much better than mountain lion in many ways.

I loved Snow Leopard for its robustness, speed, and lack of bugs. It was the inspiration for my second tagline: I will trade you 250 new features for 1 "it just works!"

Actually, never upgraded my wife's MBP from Snow Leopard. But my main machine is ML. I have about a half dozen times came within an inch of downgrading back to SL.

MJL
Feb 25, 2013, 09:38 PM
Love Snow Leopard but am running Lion for SSD support. Similarly many will be running Mountain Lion for Fusion Drive but I'm running windows on the SSD so I could not care less about Mountain Lion. Unfortunately I'll need Mountain Lion to get the Bootcamp drivers for Windows 8.

WhackyNinja
Feb 25, 2013, 10:10 PM
If Im correct on this. Theres an Apple event coming up next month...however its not really known if its Apple TV or something else. I hope OS X "Lynx" will be announced OR if by knowing what has happened in the past (Mac OS X Leopard, and Snow Leopard) it will be announced at WWDC this year.

Zab the Fab
Feb 26, 2013, 04:06 PM
I want an Aqua HyperCard - does that make me weird? lol

This will be the last OS X, before OS 11. And how ironic that it ends with '9' as we look back to the classic environment before taking a small step for man and a big step for man kind, into OS 11

WestonHarvey1
Feb 26, 2013, 04:10 PM
This will be the last OS X, before OS 11. And how ironic that it ends with '9' as we look back to the classic environment before taking a small step for man and a big step for man kind, into OS 11

No, they will probably have OS 10.10, 10.11, 10.12, etc. It doesn't have to "roll over" to 11.

Peace
Feb 26, 2013, 04:13 PM
No, they will probably have OS 10.10, 10.11, 10.12, etc. It doesn't have to "roll over" to 11.

It doesn't have to but I bet it will.

trustever
Feb 26, 2013, 04:29 PM
I am sick of these silly annual new versions of OSX. Last time, it messed up my VMWare file which wouldn't work on Mountain Lion. Out of all the 200+ or so features that Apple touted, less than a handful are relevant to me. The whole place has gone mad. Apple is sick with consumerism, wanting to bring out the latest toy every year. Stuff the stability of apps that have to be updated every year just to work with the latest OSX version. Some of us out here are trying to get some work done on OSX.

Ok, since stability is important to me, I do not upgrade oSX with everyone else. I wait till its more stable, e.g. 10.6.6 or 10.7.4. But it impacts me when I need to buy a new Mac, and it comes with a buggy early version of the latest and greatest OSX, and when I need to transfer my older software, e.g. my VMWare data file.

Money has gotten to Apple's brain, but the fact is, these Apple management people stare at the mirror and con themselves into believing they're still make great products. Why else is the cash pile growing, they justify themselves.

- Bring back a 2 year release cycle of OSX
- Each new OSX, get it up to around 10.x.9 to be totally rock stable
- Have wider beta testing so we consumers are not used as paid beta-testers.

If I didn't have to buy Macs every so often, I would not care. I just would not update until the OS was rock solid, and all of you can gnash your teeth as you help Apple discover bugs. But I do regularly buy new Macs, and I don't like them coming with buggy releases such as 10.7.0-3 and 10.8.0-2

Fair Point.. !

WestonHarvey1
Feb 26, 2013, 04:33 PM
It doesn't have to but I bet it will.

The brand will change then. "OS 11" sounds ridiculous. It will be something else, like "Mac OS".

Peace
Feb 26, 2013, 04:35 PM
The brand will change then. "OS 11" sounds ridiculous. It will be something else, like "Mac OS".

It does. That's why it will be called OS XI.

Keep in mind Apple removed the "Mac" part of the naming a few months ago.

Krazy Bill
Feb 26, 2013, 05:35 PM
The brand will change then. "OS 11" sounds ridiculous. It will be something else, like "Mac OS".

Why does the number following 10 sound ridiculous? "Eleven" has been around since man discovered he could also use his toes for simple accounting.

WestonHarvey1
Feb 26, 2013, 06:22 PM
It does. That's why it will be called OS XI.

Keep in mind Apple removed the "Mac" part of the naming a few months ago.

They did, but it's conceivable it could come back, with the version number dropped.

Mac OS (for Macs)
iOS (for iPhone, iPod touch, iPad, and.. i... err... Apple TV)

MattInOz
Feb 27, 2013, 02:24 AM
I guess it's not tomorrow yet.

TheBSDGuy
Feb 27, 2013, 03:53 AM
Not to be a Smart A**, but I wonder which platforms will be rendered obsolete with the release of the new OS, when it comes. This is a feature I really didn't like with ML. It didn't affect me, but I'd hate to be one of those people that bought a Mac Pro for thousands of dollars just a few years ago and have it, to some extent, being relegated to the junkyard after a fairly short life. A machine like that, IMHO, ought to be good for 7 years.

till213
Feb 27, 2013, 10:48 AM
Which do you think delivers usable features to user sooner?

Which do you think would be more important as OS features (1):


Facebook Integration vs ZFS (stable file system which detects "bit rot")
iOS "Applification" (Notes, Reminder, ...) vs current OpenGL 4.2
Crippled features (Launchpad, Spaces, Fullscreen) vs iSCSI (support for NAS protocol)
etc.


Hint: the items on the left have been existing "major features" in the last two OS updates...

(1): OS stands for "Operating System" - yes, I know, "user experience", "integrated functionality", blah blah blah... but being able to attach (certain shares of) my NAS via iSCSI, or having confort in a reliable File System would enhance my own "experience" much much more than the annoying behaviour of certain "iCloud"-ified applications (I hate, hate, hate those "Duplicate" (no "Save as") and "Here are all your 20 documents you had open last time you closed the application - enjoy!" concepts!)

lunaoso
Feb 27, 2013, 02:08 PM
Which do you think would be more important as OS features (1):


Facebook Integration vs ZFS (stable file system which detects "bit rot")
iOS "Applification" (Notes, Reminder, ...) vs current OpenGL 4.2
Crippled features (Launchpad, Spaces, Fullscreen) vs iSCSI (support for NAS protocol)
etc.


Hint: the items on the left have been existing "major features" in the last two OS updates...

(1): OS stands for "Operating System" - yes, I know, "user experience", "integrated functionality", blah blah blah... but being able to attach (certain shares of) my NAS via iSCSI, or having confort in a reliable File System would enhance my own "experience" much much more than the annoying behaviour of certain "iCloud"-ified applications (I hate, hate, hate those "Duplicate" (no "Save as") and "Here are all your 20 documents you had open last time you closed the application - enjoy!" concepts!)

The average consumer would pick everything on the left. That's why they were added. I'm not saying that the options on the right shouldn't be added, but the left is what is selling the product.

Sky Blue
Feb 27, 2013, 02:10 PM
Which do you think would be more important as OS features (1):


Things that most consumers would pay for, things on the left in your list.

MattInOz
Feb 27, 2013, 05:59 PM
Which do you think would be more important as OS features (1):


Facebook Integration vs ZFS (stable file system which detects "bit rot")
iOS "Applification" (Notes, Reminder, ...) vs current OpenGL 4.2
Crippled features (Launchpad, Spaces, Fullscreen) vs iSCSI (support for NAS protocol)
etc.


Hint: the items on the left have been existing "major features" in the last two OS updates...


Yes they may have been "major" features but do you really think the engineers who made those features where taken from the Filesystem project teams. Likely no.

So a better comparison to me is Core Storage vs ZFS support projects.
Both have had signs in the OS for years now. CoreStorage has delivered usable and useful features to the user every release. It has built on those features every release. It has made cool hardware features possible like Fusion drive. It could conceivable during the next OS update deliver (or maybe two) all the features we wanted ZFS for (fingers cross here for data-integrity checking).

Compared to the ZFS project that was sort of monolithic and delivered in couple of not generally useful steps. It didn't enjoy the same board user run in testing. Then when licensing reared it's head as an issue showed that relying on it might be just as dangerous as continuing to rely on HFS+ long term.

So in the question of Should Apple do regular smaller updates or wait to do something big?
To me it's really clear on big complex low level features like File systems, compiler chains,core graphics projects... it's clearly better to break them up in to smaller and smaller steps and have many releases of the projects life.

The other "major" features are there as incentive for the user base to come along for the ride.

Randall
Mar 6, 2013, 09:29 PM
Why does the number following 10 sound ridiculous? "Eleven" has been around since man discovered he could also use his toes for simple accounting.LOL I remember when people here were saying how ridiculous "MacBook Pro" sounded, and that "PowerBook" would be the name forever! :D Some people just hate change. I like how lots of people think that revision numbers can only go up to 9 too...:rolleyes:

----------

Which do you think would be more important as OS features (1):


Facebook Integration vs ZFS (stable file system which detects "bit rot")
iOS "Applification" (Notes, Reminder, ...) vs current OpenGL 4.2
Crippled features (Launchpad, Spaces, Fullscreen) vs iSCSI (support for NAS protocol)
etc.


Hint: the items on the left have been existing "major features" in the last two OS updates...

(1): OS stands for "Operating System" - yes, I know, "user experience", "integrated functionality", blah blah blah... but being able to attach (certain shares of) my NAS via iSCSI, or having confort in a reliable File System would enhance my own "experience" much much more than the annoying behaviour of certain "iCloud"-ified applications (I hate, hate, hate those "Duplicate" (no "Save as") and "Here are all your 20 documents you had open last time you closed the application - enjoy!" concepts!)If they don't wake up and start entertaining the tech user base needs again soon, their market share will suffer as people jump to the OSes that will actually meet their tech needs. iOS app integration and other bells a whistles are great, but at a certain point you need to stop dumbing down your interface to the lowest common denominator and let the power users get their ZFS and OpenGL 4.2 support. Apple don't forget your roots!

pionata
Mar 7, 2013, 10:47 AM
I sincerely hope that 10.9 is called "Snow Leopard II" and that they undo the ****ing mess of the last 2 os.

Michael Goff
Mar 7, 2013, 10:49 AM
I sincerely hope that 10.9 is called "Snow Leopard II" and that they undo the ****ing mess of the last 2 os.

I hope not, we should probably move forward instead of moving back. Let's not make the few progresses of the last few years be for naught.

Krazy Bill
Mar 7, 2013, 11:56 AM
I hope not, we should probably move forward instead of moving back. Let's not make the few progresses of the last few years be for naught.I don't think anyone is talking about "moving back". Just modify 10.9 to give us one major thing we miss: Grid-like Spaces. And of course a different flavor of Expose' that uses the entire display since we won't need that useless crap at the top anymore. Others can still use MC. It's not like the coders would have to invent anything new - just polish it up.

Seriously... bring this back and at least half of us (if not more) would simply shut the hell up. (It's either that or wait for us to die. :D)

Michael Goff
Mar 7, 2013, 04:01 PM
I don't think anyone is talking about "moving back". Just modify 10.9 to give us one major thing we miss: Grid-like Spaces. And of course a different flavor of Expose' that uses the entire display since we won't need that useless crap at the top anymore. Others can still use MC. It's not like the coders would have to invent anything new - just polish it up.

Seriously... bring this back and at least half of us (if not more) would simply shut the hell up. (It's either that or wait for us to die. :D)

I've never seen these "grid like spaces".

How is it better than what we have now?

Peace
Mar 7, 2013, 04:02 PM
I've never seen these "grid like spaces".

How is it better than what we have now?

Instead of spaces all lining up at the top they were in a grid on the screen.

Michael Goff
Mar 7, 2013, 04:40 PM
Instead of spaces all lining up at the top they were in a grid on the screen.

I could see that being better.

simsaladimbamba
Mar 7, 2013, 04:41 PM
I've never seen these "grid like spaces".

How is it better than what we have now?

Imagine going from Spaces in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, looking like this
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10644330/MR_Image_Hotlinks/MR_screenshots/MR_screenshots_2012_02/2012_02_05_pA2_Spaces.png
to Mission Control in Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, looking like this
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10644330/MR_Image_Hotlinks/MR_screenshots/MR_screenshots_2012_02/2012_02_05_pA1_MC_in_Lion.png
Of course, not everyone uses that many Spaces, but Mission Control seriously hampers the usefulness of more than four virtual desktops.

Krazy Bill
Mar 7, 2013, 04:55 PM
Imagine going from Spaces in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, looking like thisSTOP posting these concise comparison images! You are making me miss Snow Leopard again just when I was adapting to my misery. :(

WhackyNinja
Mar 7, 2013, 06:16 PM
STOP posting these concise comparison images! You are making me miss Snow Leopard again just when I was adapting to my misery. :(

Makes you want to ditch Mountain Lion and go back to the mother land...AKA Snow Leopard

Michael Goff
Mar 7, 2013, 06:37 PM
Makes you want to ditch Mountain Lion and go back to the mother land...AKA Snow Leopard

I couldn't use SL, my Mac came with Lion.

>_>

WhackyNinja
Mar 7, 2013, 07:12 PM
I couldn't use SL, my Mac came with Lion.

>_>

Same here >_>

Menge
Mar 7, 2013, 07:41 PM
Well... 10.6 was absolutely great! Fast and stable (in my experience, anyway). And I definitely miss the old Spaces + ExposÚ action.

There are some cool things in 10.7/10.8. But I wish they'd go back to lean and mean. Mission control is better on 10.8 than on 10.7 (with the removal of window grouping), but for me it's still slower than Spaces + ExposÚ.

One of my biggest annoyances? TextEdit won't open to a blank new document anymore. It always opens to the "Open" dialog nowadays. It's sad :P I used it to quickly jot down stuff... Now it's not quick anymore.

Having developed on all releases of OS X from 10.4 through 10.8, so far, 10.6 was the release of OS X that left me the best impression of all.

Krazy Bill
Mar 7, 2013, 10:39 PM
One of my biggest annoyances? TextEdit won't open to a blank new document anymore. It always opens to the "Open" dialog nowadays.Disable "Documents and Data" in iCloud. TextEdit will behave normally again.

WhackyNinja
Mar 7, 2013, 11:05 PM
Well... 10.6 was absolutely great! Fast and stable (in my experience, anyway). And I definitely miss the old Spaces + ExposÚ action.

There are some cool things in 10.7/10.8. But I wish they'd go back to lean and mean. Mission control is better on 10.8 than on 10.7 (with the removal of window grouping), but for me it's still slower than Spaces + ExposÚ.

One of my biggest annoyances? TextEdit won't open to a blank new document anymore. It always opens to the "Open" dialog nowadays. It's sad :P I used it to quickly jot down stuff... Now it's not quick anymore.

Having developed on all releases of OS X from 10.4 through 10.8, so far, 10.6 was the release of OS X that left me the best impression of all.

Hopefully 10.9 will be the next 10.6. Mountain Lion came fairly close to being as great as Snow Leopard but alas it came short to 10.6's greatness

virginblue4
Mar 8, 2013, 05:48 AM
Well from looking at that, I prefer Mission Control.

MistaBungle
Mar 8, 2013, 10:07 AM
I am waiting for this announcement, really excited for it.

Krazy Bill
Mar 8, 2013, 01:33 PM
Well from looking at that, I prefer Mission Control.This is why there is no hope for us "Spaces" users.

i.e.... you need to use it to know what you're missing. (Especially the ability to use the keyboard). Spaces/Expose' was actually the highlight of one of Steve's keynotes back in the day.

z06gal
Mar 8, 2013, 04:45 PM
Any chance somebody will come up with a spaces app for Mountain Lion? Or maybe adding that option in tinker tool or something?

Krazy Bill
Mar 8, 2013, 07:38 PM
Any chance somebody will come up with a spaces app for Mountain Lion? Or maybe adding that option in tinker tool or something?There is one called "TotalSpaces" but it's not quite the same.

z06gal
Mar 8, 2013, 10:08 PM
There is one called "TotalSpaces" but it's not quite the same.


Thanks KrazyBill! That doesn't look bad at all. I may give that a shot :)

Thunderbird
Mar 9, 2013, 01:33 PM
Here's a petition to get ZFS included in OS X 10.9. May be a bit too late but the petition could get Apple's attention.

https://www.change.org/petitions/apple-os-x-10-9-support-opengl-4-3-and-zfs

ZFS and petition background:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/02/zfs-loving-mac-users-demand-support-in-os-x-10-9/

Menge
Mar 10, 2013, 12:27 PM
Disable "Documents and Data" in iCloud. TextEdit will behave normally again.

But then I won't have documents in iCloud :P
I want that feature, but none of the annoyance that comes with its constant nagging.

simsaladimbamba
Mar 10, 2013, 12:29 PM
But then I won't have documents in iCloud :P
I want that feature, but none of the annoyance that comes with its constant nagging.

Dropbox perhaps?

Krazy Bill
Mar 10, 2013, 01:36 PM
But then I won't have documents in iCloud :P
I want that feature, but none of the annoyance that comes with its constant nagging.Welcome to iOSX. (See my sig).

Don't resist. Do it the "Apple" way. Do not question them - they know best! :D

Menge
Mar 11, 2013, 07:01 AM
Dropbox perhaps?
Welcome to iOSX. (See my sig).

Don't resist. Do it the "Apple" way. Do not question them - they know best! :D
Yeah, these aren't really solutions... My wish is still unfulfilled :P Roll in 10.9!

Zab the Fab
Mar 24, 2013, 12:52 AM
No, they will probably have OS 10.10, 10.11, 10.12, etc. It doesn't have to "roll over" to 11.

That's a good point. Didn't think about that. HMMMMM !

Lolito
Mar 24, 2013, 11:40 AM
I┤m afraid apple is way too comfortable with osx users now, as it is still much better than windows. the money now is in iOS and there will be only new hardware features for osx customers, no software real features, just un-necessary ui changes, which btw are not improvements.

face it.

skaertus
Mar 24, 2013, 01:52 PM
No, they will probably have OS 10.10, 10.11, 10.12, etc. It doesn't have to "roll over" to 11.

Are there so many cats left to name them?

cmChimera
Mar 24, 2013, 02:20 PM
I┤m afraid apple is way too comfortable with osx users now, as it is still much better than windows. the money now is in iOS and there will be only new hardware features for osx customers, no software real features, just un-necessary ui changes, which btw are not improvements.

face it.

You're right. Mountain Lion added absolutely nothing. /s

Colpeas
Mar 24, 2013, 04:34 PM
You're right. Mountain Lion added absolutely nothing. /s

No, but it is far better than Lion anyway. I am stuck with 10.7.5 on my Mac Pro while my MBA is running 10.8.3 and I must say that I much prefer working under Mountain Lion, even though my Lion box is much more powerful machine.

I, personally, am quite comfortable with this kind of update. I find introducing new features step by step in yearly cycle much better than spewing all at once every two years, leaving conservative and less experienced users petrified and overwhelmed by a landslide of brand-new features and completely different UI.

Look at what happened when Lion was released. Some people still use Snow Leopard, that's how revolutionary Lion was.

McGiord
Mar 24, 2013, 04:58 PM
OK, and what would the next Apple OS be like? Any proof of concept out there?

This is disappointing: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/mac-os-x-10-9-what-can-we-expect-from-apples-next-os/

And the iOS-Mac integration into a single OS, will it suffer the same fate as MS Windows 8???

superriku11
Mar 24, 2013, 05:16 PM
Look at what happened when Lion was released. Some people still use Snow Leopard, that's how revolutionary Lion was.



Lion wasn't revolutionary. In comparison to Snow Leopard, Lion was a step back in every sense of the word. It benchmarked slower by about 5% or 10%, don't remember which. It added lots of UI changes that annoy anyone who's not keen to having their computer look and feel like a tablet. And it added things that looked nice but were far less functional.

Snow Leopard was to Lion as XP was to Vista. Both OS X Lion and Windows Vista were updates that added hardly anything more than annoyances for advanced computer users.

Krazy Bill
Mar 24, 2013, 05:28 PM
This is disappointing: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/mac-os-x-10-9-what-can-we-expect-from-apples-next-os/Yes, disappointing but what would you expect? Given the short release schedule there's not time for Apple to do anything but pile on more code on top of existing releases.

It will be a while before we see something new from the "ground up". I'd love to stick around for it but if 10.9 is just more unicorns, frolicking bunnies and pretty butterflies I'll just move on to something else.

Peace
Mar 24, 2013, 05:33 PM
Yes, disappointing but what would you expect? Given the short release schedule there's not time for Apple to do anything but pile on more code on top of existing releases.

It will be a while before we see something new from the "ground up". I'd love to stick around for it but if 10.9 is just more unicorns, frolicking bunnies and pretty butterflies I'll just move on to something else.

To what ? A Linux kernel ?

Windows ?

Lolito
Mar 24, 2013, 07:11 PM
To what ? A Linux kernel ?

Windows ?

that is the main reason why 10.9 will be **** again: there is no competition.

linux or windows... shame.

McGiord
Mar 24, 2013, 07:38 PM
Yes, disappointing but what would you expect? Given the short release schedule there's not time for Apple to do anything but pile on more code on top of existing releases.

It will be a while before we see something new from the "ground up". I'd love to stick around for it but if 10.9 is just more unicorns, frolicking bunnies and pretty butterflies I'll just move on to something else.

Adding Siri and Maps and calling it a new OS version is not a real OS upgrade.

cmChimera
Mar 24, 2013, 09:21 PM
Some people will never be happy.

Krazy Bill
Mar 25, 2013, 05:05 PM
Is it "tomorrow" yet?

Peace
Mar 25, 2013, 05:10 PM
Is it "tomorrow" yet?

It might be Wednesday or Thursday.

TheMTtakeover
Mar 25, 2013, 05:21 PM
Here's a petition to get ZFS included in OS X 10.9. May be a bit too late but the petition could get Apple's attention.

https://www.change.org/petitions/apple-os-x-10-9-support-opengl-4-3-and-zfs

ZFS and petition background:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/02/zfs-loving-mac-users-demand-support-in-os-x-10-9/

Thanks for the link to the petition, I signed. I would love for the file system to be upgraded and while it doesn't affect me much, I would like the graphics to be up to date. It's not like Apple doesn't have plenty of money to implement these things.

SR45
Mar 25, 2013, 05:34 PM
Is it "tomorrow" yet?

It's been almost a month since OP thought it would be "Tomorrow". Wish these so called prediction thread would never be made since they are almost always wrong...;) :D :p